Welcome to the Join Up Dots business coaching podcast interview with Mr Chris Cerrone
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Introducing Chris Cerrone
Todays guest ready to go on the Join Up Dots business coaching podcast interview, is Mr Chris Cerrone
Who was perhaps not the most obvious person to get behind the microphone and create an amazing content producing production line, simply known as The Cerrone Show.
But he has achieved it, after living a totally different life for many, many years.
In fact he has lived many different lives over the years.
From working for a few years in the telephone industry, he moved through various positions, until rather strangely to me at least, jumping into Real Estate.
And then even stranger…..becoming an owner of his own cafe for a year, before making another career change by entering the internet industry.
How The Dots Joined Up For Chris
And now from his closet full of socks, and shoes he has launched his brand new podcast to the world, and created a momentum that can only be achieved by consistent and focused action.
The show is going great.
The downloads are soaring
And best of all he sounds like he is having the time of his life.
He is a huge inspiration to me, as is anyone who gets off their backsides and looks to create a life of their dreams….and on their own terms.
Well let’s bring onto the show to start joining up dots, as we discuss the words of Steve Jobs with the one and only host of the The Cerrone Show….. strangely enough a man named….Chris Cerrone.
During the show we discussed such weighty topics such as:
Why becoming an online brand is so time consuming, but is vital for success!
How the beginning of Star Wars is the go to reference point for setting up a story!
How forced action is better than wanted action!
How you can check out my first foray into the world of podcasting here about 16 mins in!
How To Connect With Chris Cerrone
If you want our whole collection of shows then jump over to the podcast archives here
Audio Transcription Of Chris Cerrone Interview
David Ralph [0:00]
Yes, it is Episode 16. All my friends and listeners out there in internet land. You’ve been with us for over two weeks now. And as I normally say we’ve got a great show today. And we have a it’s a it’s a chapter has been announced inspiration to me from the very beginning. And really watching his career progress has made me want to do the same. So if anyone’s to blame, he’s the chap. So let’s give a bit of introduction about him. He perhaps I would say was not the most obvious person to get behind the mic, and create an amazing content producing production line. But you certainly achieved it after living a totally different life for many, many years. In fact, he’s lived many different lives over the years, from working for a few years in the telephone industry. He moved through various positions until rather strangely to me at least, jumping into real estate, and then even stranger becoming an owner of his own cafe for a year before making another career change by entering the internet industry. And now from his closet full of socks and shoes, and probably a few pairs of underwear. He’s launched his brand new podcast to the world and created a momentum that can only be achieved by consistent and focused action. The show is going great the downloads are sowing and reaping festival, he sounds like he’s having a time of his life. As I say he’s a huge inspiration to me, as is anyone who gets off their backsides and looks to create a life of their dreams and on their own terms. So let me introduce to you as we start looking back over his life to Join Up Dots, the one and only host of the Chris surround show. Strangely enough, a man named Chris Malone, how are you today? Sir?
Chris Cerrone [2:22]
David, I am doing absolutely fantastic. And I must say I gotta interrupt your show right now and say that was one of the best introductions outside of my own that I’ve heard on a podcast to date. So thank you
David Ralph [2:37]
know that that’s absolutely, it’s an It’s an honour to have you on the show. And so it’s an honour to give you an introduction that builds you up because you really have hit the ground running avenues, suddenly, you’ve come from nowhere if if anyone is out there thinking about doing a podcast, and it is certainly a movement at the moment in that direction. Some call it a movement are becoming explosion. But your name comes up all over the place. You really have done some great things has it surprised you?
Chris Cerrone [3:07]
it? Yes, it has, in a way it doesn’t. But it definitely has. And the reason why I say it in a way it doesn’t is because when I set out to become a podcaster become a brand become a person on the internet. I started from nothing, I did not have something that can refer back to that, oh, he created this website or he did that I really needed to hit the ground sprinting to make sure I am everywhere as much as possible. So that has been at least from launch. And still now my theme, I’m gonna just have everyone drink from the firehose, that is the Chris around show and Chris around.
David Ralph [3:54]
So you have a phrase where be everywhere and literally sort of to a man and a woman, the name of Pat Flynn keeps on appearing on my shows. And he has got some he doesn’t need that when he says be everywhere. But to get anything going on the web, on the internet, you really do Don’t you have to take control of literally every social media platform you can to gain that momentum is that something that kind of annoys you because it does make Chris really I just want to get behind the mic and do me show but there’s a lot of it that you’ve got to do to just get your name out to get that momentum.
Chris Cerrone [4:27]
It did it did annoy me because I like you said I’d rather just sit behind the mic and just be a podcaster and let my work speaks for itself. However, now that I am everywhere, and I’m creating YouTube videos, in my Instagram account, I’m showing people my personal life, I’m on Facebook and Twitter and Google Plus. And the list goes on and on and on. I have actually connected with some amazing people on these different platforms that has either became guests of my show, personal friends this weekend, a fellow podcaster that we’ve been chatting it up on Facebook, literally drove down to Las Vegas, where I live to come visit me and we hung out last night and we talked to podcasting and internet and life and we just had a blast. Now, how I how I or had I not, I should say, taking that approach of being everywhere. For example, Facebook, I wouldn’t have been able to make that great connexion with that person and hung out with them in real life.
David Ralph [5:34]
And where they better in real life and behind the mic.
Chris Cerrone [5:37]
They were even cooler, I must admit, because meeting anybody online to me still seems kind of weird. I’ll just go out and say it like just forming these relationships. I’m still getting past that mental block of this isn’t just the internet. This isn’t like from what I remember the internet back in the day, we’re used to just go on these like chat rooms. And just type in like ASL right age, sex location, and it was like AOL chat or whatever it was back then. I’m getting past that mental block. Like this isn’t just a chat room where it’s kind of fading away and people are playing around on the internet, like real relationships are being formed here.
David Ralph [6:21]
Yeah, I still type in sex and location, but it doesn’t get me anywhere. Yeah. That’s one of the reasons I’m being a podcaster. At least I can take it to an area that provides value more than just back to myself.
Chris Cerrone [6:33]
Yeah, and I must say, and I’m sure you would agree, having done a bunch of interviews, yourself at this point, isn’t it not the most fun and freeing thing to do is to have a podcast and talk to awesome people.
David Ralph [6:47]
It’s, it’s better than that. It’s It’s so liberating, in many different ways, upset this loads of time that you must agree with this. When you’re doing these shows, and you’re doing so many of them, you repeat yourself, and you can’t help it because the conversation is kind of going the same way. But I kind of wish I could have done this earlier. But I just wasn’t ready. It wasn’t until a moment in my life, that kicked it all off that I thought this is where I should be. But really, as I’m doing it now, and I’m enjoying it, and I’m getting hopefully better at it, and improving the editing and all the things that sort of take up the time. I love it more than anything I think I’ve done.
Chris Cerrone [7:27]
Absolutely. And there is that moment in your life. And we can get into that with me here in a second. But there is that moment in your life, that you finally make that decision to go in one direction or another. And what I found is I went through a period of what like you said, Why didn’t I start this sooner? or How come I didn’t know about this earlier or all those things, right? But then the other side of me says, You know what, I’m at least out there doing it. I’m making it happen. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve run into in the past that was telling me about their podcast idea or YouTube idea or business idea. And I talked to these same people today, after my own show is launched after I’m now doing over 4000 downloads a day after all this stuff I’m seeing myself, and they’re still talking about their website or their logo or how they’re going to launch on this and that date. Because this needs to be perfect. It’s like it’s kind of frustrating Me, me really in hearing this because I almost just want to this may sound bad. I almost want to shake them and just be like, Are you crazy? like who cares? launch the thing. Because when you finally launch this thing, and you’re like in the thick of it, you are not only going to kick yourself because you didn’t do it sooner. But you’ve also wasted all this time all this learning experience all this growth by waiting to launch.
David Ralph [8:54]
Can I just jump back to your download Biggers because you said a number of air but I thought, Oh, that’s it’s interesting, because for any of the listeners out there that are you know, on a daily basis following this journey, we have various different conversations and guests on here. But if you are thinking of doing a podcast out there, the fact that Chris is getting 4000 downloads is is quite amazing at this stage of your career. Because I think the average somebody told me the average is 167 downloads. That’s the that’s the mean average of all the podcasts your thousand 4000 is is I’m saluting you, sir. I’m saluting you through Skype. You can’t see me, but I’m doing it.
Chris Cerrone [9:38]
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, you’re absolutely right on that number. It’s like 167 or 160. I know there’s a one six somewhere and then but that’s the average podcast and if you’re doing that you’re doing okay, because that’s that’s the median average. Now think of it like this, at least this is what I did, right? If I had 10 downloads a day, I would have been grateful, because that wouldn’t mean let’s just pretend 10 people showed up. And they sat on my lawn. And they listened to me speak for an hour because my shows an hour long. Right? That’s 10 individual people I’m speaking to in the very, very beginning. If four people listen to it, my mom, my dad, my wife and my wife’s parents maybe they’re together listening to it, like I still would have been had an old Assamese twins. Yeah, yeah, I still would have been happy because I’m doing this for me, I’m doing this because I have a passion for it and the the listenership is just an added bonus.
David Ralph [10:42]
So So when do you get to a figure and and we’re going to get back into your life that is so important. Because you have come from nowhere. You’ve taken focused, creative action, as I was saying, and you must at the moment be going whoo every single morning when you see the the download figures in because that is the that’s the the key thing, isn’t it? Without those you haven’t got a show end of storey. So when do you get to a figure when you start going? This is not balls? This is This is crazy. Are you ready out there? Or is there a bigger a headed in your mind?
Chris Cerrone [11:16]
So every day since I started my show, when I hit 100 150 200 300, like whatever that number is, I am going this is crazy. Like I can’t believe people are listening to the show. And it’s extremely humbling. And I’ll tell you something that I don’t think I’ve shared on any interview yet or even on my own show is on April was the day April 3, I had some kind of technical trouble with not only the hosting account with my my shows, but my website. It caused the show not to go out on the air. Well, I it was extremely delayed, put it that way. I was basically off the air for a good chunk of the day. On that day. I did 527 downloads. Now for a second. I was like, Oh my gosh, I only got 527 downloads like that stinks. And immediately as I was thinking this, I’m like a nun and an announcer like you are you cannot start going down that path and only getting 527 downloads because that’s still 527 people that listen to your show. And everything I’ve done online with this podcast is of the mindset of I am just grateful and and happy that I’m able to do what I do and do my podcast and when the day comes. Or I truly am pissed off for like longer than three seconds that I only did 520 seven Dallas, then people should just stop listening to my show right there because I reached a point that I became too arrogant into whatever word you want to call it. So that’s that’s really the mind frame of of how I’m how I am right now.
David Ralph [13:17]
Well, I think it comes across in your shows. I’ve listened to all your shows. And you can hear the improvement you really can. And the thing that impressed me most with yours was that now Yes, they’re so more rounded or so more polished. But I’m a pretty damn good in the very first show. Did you do a lot of kind of recordings that you threw away because you thought now I don’t really like that before you you add your first one. Or did you just go with that one straight off the bat?
Chris Cerrone [13:46]
Uh, no, I did like one or two. I rerecorded one. Because it was just way it was actually my very, very first one. And I still have it. I may release it at later for. For fun. Yeah, Director’s Cut are to show people. Hopefully once I get to a like a big level, I may release it to show people like look, I literally started in my closet on and I sounded like nine miles a bad road. But I still forged ahead and I still just went with it. But the that is the only one that I didn’t release. And I ended up calling this particular guests back, he was actually a friend of mine. And I’ll give them a shout out is Ben Kaufman. He’s a comedian in New York. And I said, Look, here’s the deal, I’ll release it if you want it. Like if you want me to release that one. If you’re happy with that one, I’ll be more than happy to release this episode. However, I have since gotten a lot more comfortable in the microphone a lot better at navigating an interview style conversation, and I would not be doing you a justice if I released it. And he’s like, no, let’s let’s go ahead and redo it. If you’re not happy with it. Like let’s go ahead and redo it. And he was so gracious, you know, graceful and doing that for me. Because at the end of the day, it’s my show. It’s the Chris around show like I get it. But these people are my guests. It is my duty as a podcast hosts as a broadcaster to make every single one of my guests look and feel like a million dollars when they’re on my show.
David Ralph [15:29]
And do you think you achieve that every single one?
Chris Cerrone [15:33]
I like to think I do. I like to think I do. I’ll tell you this I I give them my all. And I guide guide the conversation. And my intros I made a joke in the beginning about intros. If you’re listening to my show, you know how much of a stickler, I am for a good intro. I don’t want my guests to have to think I don’t want them to have to do I just want them to sit back relax, have a great conversation with me. And then leave the interview feeling like a million bucks. And the reason why I’m a stickler for introductions is because that sets the tone for not only me and the person I’m interviewing, but the audience as well. So if they’re kind of taken back by good introduction, or they’re inspired by what they just heard, or whatever the case is, they’re more apt to be open, more comfortable, divulge more, whatever the thing is, and it just turns out to be a great episode.
David Ralph [16:37]
Well, I think it’s so important for the introduction, I spend a lot of time stalking you all trying to find stuff that I can weave into an introduction, because I consider it remember the old Star Wars films when that the yellow words come up at the beginning. Yeah, it sets so much of the tone of the film. So then when the spaceship comes across, you’ve already into the storey, because you’ve been reading it for three minutes when it comes up. And I think that is what a show should have. It should give you enough hooks to think, Okay, this guy is going to be or This lady is going to be an interesting person, but not too much that tells the storey
Chris Cerrone [17:12]
you’re absolutely right. And Cynthia Sanchez always makes fun of me for making analogies. And she’s absolutely right, because I’m about to make an analogy right now, if you are flying on an airline, and you’re sitting first class, and they come up and they give you the hot towel, and they give you the silverware the actual like metal silverware and the plastic stuff like you’re it’s only a plane ride, but they’re doing all these things to make you feel at ease to feel comfortable to get off that plane and feel Wow, that was a great eight hour flight or however long the flight was. That’s to me, what I try to do on my show, starting with the introduction, that’s I’m giving them their hot towel in the beginning. So that they’re they’re telling themselves you know what, this is going to be a great interview.
David Ralph [18:03]
Right? So going back, okay, you’re in Las Vegas. That’s where you live. Yeah, yep, born and raised. Born and raised. Now I’ve been there a couple of times, and I’ve had some very strange occurrences. If we ever meet up for a beer, I’m gonna have to tell you, my my Last Vegas storeys, please. But um, when you’re out there, and one of the things for anyone to do if they want to become successful, they want to create their own path is surround yourself with people doing the same thing. But you want to do that, that’s just one of the givens that people say. Now, I found it very difficult being where I am in the United Kingdom, because I don’t know anyone but she everyone that I know now who is doing the same thing, live in America. So I connect with them on Facebook or connect with them on forums, as she was saying, but actually face to face in a bar. Not all, did you have a network around you? Or have you really since that moment, when you thought this is what I want to do? Have you had to create fat from scratch.
Chris Cerrone [19:07]
I definitely had to create that from scratch. I knew nobody in this world. I knew people that I followed online. But there was nobody here in Las Vegas that I knew of, by the way that I could call up and say hey, let’s let’s have a discussion. Let’s meet up for a coffee or a beer or whatever and kind of bounce ideas off each other. Right? Like it’s tough, especially for people online. It’s tough. Because you You’re right, you hear that you surround yourself with like minded positive people who are going places. And that’s that’s sort of like the the jumpstart of everything. Yeah, if anything, but it’s tough. We’re online. How can we do that? Well, there’s a tonne of different ways. I actually started on Twitter, and a funny storey about Twitter’s I didn’t like Twitter. I didn’t start using Twitter until November, December of last year of 2013. I really started using Twitter. from Twitter. I met a bunch of other people, one of them and I’ll bring her up again, because she’s so awesome, Cynthia Sanchez. And they happen to be having an event here in Las Vegas, which I was very lucky that they’re having it in Vegas, which was New Media Expo. So Cynthia and I are tweeting and I basically told her, Hey, if you want me to go look at the venue for this meetup you plan on throwing and take pictures and basically just give you the skinny on what’s going on. I’ll do that for you. And we’ve actually talked about this since and we’ve laughed about it. But hesitantly, she was like, Yeah, sure. If you want, I don’t know you. You’re at yours. What did you do that? Because I wanted to break into this world. So bad, I didn’t care what people thought of me, I came from a corporate background, an entrepreneur background, a real estate background, I came from all these backgrounds. But in every single background that I came from, and everything, every single thing I’ve done in my life, I was always concerned with, what are they going to think of me or I need to carry myself in a certain way. and maintain this level of professionalism. I thought that being humble and not knowing a lot was almost like a mark against you. And this time around, I took a complete one at approach, I was the guy saying I don’t know anything, I just want to hang out. If you need help, carrying some chairs, I’ll carry those chairs, like I did not care. And taking that approach has done more for me in my podcast and all my online stuff that I’m doing now than anything else I’ve ever done in the past in terms of like how fast I’m on the scene.
David Ralph [21:47]
The lady that Chris is talking about is Cynthia Sanchez, and she was on the show on episode 14 a couple of them ago. And at the end of the show, I said to Cynthia, I said is that anybody out there? But you could suggest for being a guest on the show. And she suggested Chris, who’s on tonight. And she told me the name and it didn’t take a toll. I didn’t register the name at all. But then when the email came through from Chris saying, Hi, how are you? I looked at it and thought, Oh, I know these chat. I’ve connected on our forums. And the thing that Chris was talking about is absolutely true. Because on the forums, you’re the person is saying, Hi guys, how can I help you? Hi, Guys, do you want an intro done, I can help you. Hi, guys. And you’re giving, giving giving all the time on you. And you’re probably in the environment that I have been in. I kind of think to myself, How the hell is he got so much time because I’m so sort of swamped with it. And you’re offering yourself left, right and centre. But you think that anybody out there listening in to start making momentum in their own life is really about giving back to
Chris Cerrone [22:49]
people? Absolutely. Without a doubt. And I’m glad you mentioned about the intro thing that I offered on the group that we belong because you’re right, as my shows growing as I’m doing now speaking engagements, and I’m travelling to Arizona for this this group retreat thing that I did, like, my life is becoming extremely busy. I now I mean, I have two kids, I have I’ll stay at home wife. Just there’s life happens, we get that. So when I put out and I was feeling bad, because I wasn’t as active on that particular form as I used to be or that I want to be. So when I put that out there, I said How could I help everybody without going down the line and each individual comment and it just all this stuff that I used to do. So I decided to do it a lot more efficiently. So I put out a post in in for those of you that are listening when he’s talking about we belong to a podcasters group. And one of the things that’s big for us podcasters is getting these like intros there we call them stingers or at least I do. You heard one right at the beginning of this show, right? and wanted to give back to the community and help other people out, especially people that are just starting out that really don’t know anybody that want to have stingers on their show, and I wrote, if anybody wants a stinger, let me know, I will record it. I’ll record three, then I’ll email them to you. And whenever your show comes out, you know, go ahead and use it. And if you never use it, that’s okay, too. For me, that was way easier to do it that way to kind of bundle everything in one shot, then feeling guilty because I didn’t get to every single last comment. So I’m still helping. And by the way, I was a couple days late on some of them. I sat in my room over the weekend, I think it was like last weekend. And I just knocked out a bunch like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, was 1015 minutes of my time. But I delivered on on what I said and other people got stingers now. And it’s it’s just all about giving back.
David Ralph [25:00]
is as simple as that, isn’t it? The more you give back, you know, I’ve always felt that I was a giving person. But now I think No, I only only touch the surface that the real movers and shakers out there. The Zika Zika is that giving over time at night?
Chris Cerrone [25:16]
They are and it’s so much more because I used to think the same thing to I just gave this to charity, or I just did this like none. And when you are on a Sunday, doing a two hour call with a bunch of people on a Google Hangout, which I did last week in and you’re helping people with their business and their launch and all this other stuff on a Sunday when you could be like, that’s really giving back. It’s not financial, it’s not I helped you move a couch. It’s it’s giving this person your selfless time.
David Ralph [25:54]
Right, going back then going back to the corporate land, corporate America, let’s do it. Now. I’ve read your profile. And you were saying I love my job, you you weren’t one of these people who went are hate my job and I can’t wait to do something myself. You were actually very happy in your situation. And you decided, well, you got made redundant, I believe. And when was that moment of you saying to your wife, to your kids, or maybe just to yourself, actually, I could get a job, I could go straight back into something. But this is the time that I need to take my action. This is the time that for once in my life, I’ve got to do what’s right for me, and not for everybody else. Was it clearly defined? Or was it a creeping, dawning realisation over a period of time that hey, I’m not going back. This is this is the future.
Chris Cerrone [26:47]
It’s always been creeping. Especially when I was in corporate I was at my my last job I held. I was there for almost five years. And day one, I knew I wanted to start my own business or do my own thing, or just be basically a solo printer, an entrepreneur. However, the approach that I took was a bit different than I ever had before. Because I thought to myself, yeah, I know, I’m going to do this. I know, in my heart of hearts, I’m going to do this. But right now. I’m gonna, like give this company my all. And on top of that, I’m going to learn everything I can. Because if there’s a reason why it’s corporate America, they know what they’re doing. There’s a reason why major corporations make all this money because they’ve they’ve tested and they’ve learned and they’ve tried all these different things to help a business run efficiently. So if I could work in that atmosphere, and work hands on, and learn some of this stuff, and all the while just making these notes in the back of my mind or actually literally writing stuff down. Okay. Here’s how they did X, Y, and Z. If I can take this same price, interjects, for example, podcasting to it, or another cafe, because that was an idea. If I can interject all that stuff into it. I’m going to be that much more ahead of others, because I’m basically getting an education. And I’m getting paid for it. I’m going to school and getting paid for it. That’s how I looked at it. And I started at the bottom, by the way, because I know, there might be some people saying to themselves, well, I work in a cubicle, I answer phones, I do you know, what is my job going to do to help me grow my business? A lot, because I literally at that company, and you and you saw my timeline? David, I literally started at the bottom. And I did my job the best that I can. But all the while I’m trying to see okay, well, who’s above me? Or who’s in a different department? Or who’s doing XY and Z that I want to learn from? I’d go talk to them, I’d ask questions. I was just very inquisitive the whole entire time. So when my company got bought out when they laid off all of us, which I don’t know, the exact number maybe was like, 1000, maybe over shock? No. Well, as a business owner, if there was my company, I would have done the exact same thing. We did. We did a lot at that company, a lot of great stuff. I would have done the same thing. So I didn’t blame them. Again, going back to mindset, everyone else was pissed off. Screw you. You did this to me. I’m gonna do it to you. They didn’t do it to Chris around in Las Vegas in the in the in the office? No, this is a business. But anyway, I wasn’t shocked. I honestly like my internal plan. Wish I could have done it for another couple years. But it’s like having kids, I don’t know, if you have kids, they never come at the they never come at the right time. You’re never ready to have a kid. But you’re always glad you do.
David Ralph [29:58]
Go five and a grandson. So
Chris Cerrone [29:59]
you know exactly what I’m talking about?
David Ralph [30:02]
If and I think I was drunk if we?
Unknown Speaker [30:06]
If they did none of them.
David Ralph [30:08]
None of them were playing Chris. That’s what I’m saying.
Chris Cerrone [30:11]
Exactly. It’s never planned and had you not have had a child.
David Ralph [30:16]
So my wife is involved
Chris Cerrone [30:18]
they exactly exact like had that never happened to you or me with my two boys, we wouldn’t have experienced what it’s like to be a father, we wouldn’t experienced all the joys that’s came from that. So you don’t even have to be a parent to understand this had my company and I got bought out and laid all of us off. I would not be where I’m at today, I wouldn’t have experienced what it’s like that was like the perfect swift kick in the booty that said, You know what, like, enough is enough. Go start your thing. You’re more ready than you think you’re just not giving yourself enough credit.
David Ralph [30:50]
But you were scared, you must have been scared.
Chris Cerrone [30:52]
I’m scared right now. I’m seriously I’m scared all the time. But the difference is is whether or not I choose to act on that fear. Because when I in the past was scared, I would mask that by saying I need to research more, this needs to be more perfect. This needs to do that. And the yellow needs to be brown and whatever stupid excuse people come up with in their head. That’s basically fear. But now,
David Ralph [31:22]
sorry, go ahead. No, I was just saying because what you’re saying is forced action on you on a daily basis now, because you you’ve effectively had to burn your bridges. The only way that you’ve got is forward, you could go back and get a corporate job, but you don’t want to do that anymore. So when when that that fear of Oh my god, oh my god, I’ve got to do it. I’ve got to do it becomes, oh, my God, I have to do it. It does become easier somehow, doesn’t it?
Chris Cerrone [31:49]
It does. And I am a big movie buff. I love movies. And there’s always that scene. In a movie where there’s like a gun to your head. They’re telling like you need to open the safe, you need to open the safe, they’re not opening the safe, then you whip up that gun. And all of a sudden, they’re they’re opening the safe. They’re washing your car, they’re baking your pie, they’re doing everything. I tried to at least for me, and I found this to work so much better, I found for me is to act like I have that gun pointed at my head this so that I have no choice but to take action. And once I do and I push through that fear, and I push through whatever block mental block I have. And I just do even if it’s crap, I have the ugliest artwork and iTunes. JOHN Lee Dumas himself in person over dinner, not only agreed with me, but went on for another minute to tell me how ugly my artwork is. So I guess the point I’m trying to make is look things are going to happen. You’re going to have mistakes, you’re going to have misspelt words, you’re going to do something wrong. But at the end of the day, if your baby for me, it’s my podcast, if my podcast has the greatest honour, the greatest guest the greatest content, the best that I can make my podcast. That’s all that matters. Everything else can get fixed along the way.
David Ralph [33:09]
I think that is such wise words, I really do. Because I think the majority of people, I heard this stat before, and I think I’ve quoted this before, but somebody told me that only 1% of the world’s population of all time have actually ever left their mark on being on this, this world. they’ve invented something or they’ve created something or or they’ve taken some kind of action. So 99% of the people come on this earth, leave this earth, and nobody really knows that they’ve been there. So the fact that you’re doing something, and you’re you’re making your mark, even though it’s ugly, it can get better looking comment. And it’s like all of us, we all going through our life, we had the worst haircuts we’ve ever had in our lives. We never once went into the barber and said, Look, want to look as stupid as possible. But you look back on it, you think, Oh my god, what was I doing? But you move on, don’t you you move on you progress. And hopefully you find your place and that place becomes more solid. And that becomes more recognise them in the competence bills. And then finally you think I’ve joined up my dots, I know where I am. This is where I should be. Bang is your path.
Chris Cerrone [34:21]
Steve Jobs created well helped created the the Apple computer that first Apple computer was made out of wood. And they took it to some type of meetup where they tried to pitch the pitch the product and no one liked it. They were like almost booed off the stage. It was a bad haircut, it was an extremely bad haircut. But they did it they push forward. Now after that, that presentation, they were contacted by a guy and now we have an iPhone sitting in our pocket. But the point is, is they didn’t sit and say I want to create the apple to see like right off the bat, you know, I mean, or the two weeks or whatever, or the doesn’t matter what it is, they just started somewhere and they took action. And as they progressed, they defined their computer, they define their image, their brand, how they sell computers, the infrastructure, all these different things. They just defined as they went along as they took imperfect action. And now I mean, I could literally probably go to almost any country in the world and say, Steve Jobs, and people are Apple, and people are going to know exactly what I’m talking about. And that would not happen had they just kind of sat back and say, Well, this needs to be perfect first and that before you know it 10 1520 years passes you by
David Ralph [35:46]
what I was certainly no Steve Jobs on this show, because we played beach every day or 99% of the show. Sometimes we don’t quite get to it. But I think that was the perfect segue for this. So I’m going to bring Steve in. And he’s going to gave his speech as he normally does. And beautiful just going to ask you afterwards, when you first heard this and how it makes you feel today, compared to when you first heard it.
Steve Jobs [36:09]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leaves you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [36:45]
I listened to that every day. And I love it more every time I actually listened to it. And sometimes it just floats over me because I’ve heard it 1000 times. And then other time is like that I really stop and listen to it. And it is I think it’s one of the one of the sort of genius, sentences, phrases, whatever it’s ever been said.
Chris Cerrone [37:04]
I couldn’t agree with you more. And every time I watch that, I just I don’t know, like I’ve seen it so many times. And every single time I get almost like chills because it’s so true.
David Ralph [37:21]
Because I was saying to Cynthia Cynthia Sanchez the other day, I was saying to her, I would love to know if Steve was kind of leaning on one elbow shovelling conflicts in Oh my God, I got a speech in a minute and just sort of like scribbling it down, or whether that was something that he had been planning for months and months and months, because it is so simple is absolutely it’s not clever words in any shape or form. But he just touches on something, doesn’t it?
Chris Cerrone [37:49]
It does. And whether he was nervous about it or not, whether it was his master planner, not one thing I can say, at least for me with confidence is he knew what the heck he was talking about. He wasn’t just trying to get out, get out there and make this fabulous speech that’s going to be shared on YouTube. God knows how many millions of times and everyone’s going to refer back to it. He was just speaking from the heart. And I do the same thing, whether I knew it was going to be a Steve Jobs speech or not, you got to be comfortable with what you’re about to embark on. And I think he said it, whether it’s your gut, whether it’s a bunch of other different things, like you just got to know that you’ll come out, okay, at the end. And if something doesn’t work out, or if you fail, who cares? you pivot and you’ll learn and you grow from there. And that goes back to the connecting the dots of your past, you go down a certain path becomes an utter failure. You just connect the dots and say, Okay, I know not to do that anymore. Or I now know I need to do it differently. If you just keep going and going and going.
David Ralph [38:58]
I know. Chris, you have found your place just listening to you on this show. It’s a kind of feeling that hopefully that I’m getting and putting across of why the hell didn’t he do this earlier? What was the big dot? The big? Can you remember? Was it a certain podcast you was listening to? And when you thought I think I could do this? Or what was the moment when you went? This is what I’m gonna do.
Chris Cerrone [39:25]
It actually happened last week.
There’s been so many different things where I’m like, yeah, this is what I want to do. And this feels right to me. But honestly, I’m trying to move at least with my podcast in the past year, my life with such a frenzy going forward that I really don’t take the time as much as they should to kind of reflect on what’s happening or what I should be doing or any of the such. But last Thursday, I think was like a Thursday or Wednesday. It’s the middle of the day. I’m out in the front, I’m throwing a frisbee with my wife and my two boys, my youngest, who’s two years old, he’s on his little Disney Mickey Mouse, like want to be go kart push card thing. And I looked at my wife and I said, This is awesome. Like, this is amazing. It’s the middle of the day, all four of us are home. You’re not at work. I’m not at work. I mean, I do work. But you know what I mean? Like, we’re not we’re not at a job. My sons are not daycare, we’re not rushing, because we get to shovel food in our mouth and then get time in and bath time. Like we’re it’s the middle of the day. And we’re acting like we’re on some vacation on a beach throwing a frisbee around and riding bikes. And that’s when it hit me and I we just kind of talked about it for a second. Like how great this was. In that if we’re talking about a big dot, that was definitely a big die and more. So it just reinforced the fact that the path I’m on right now is the right path. For me it is the most fulfilling it is being the type of person and then I want to be. Now let me just give a quick interjection about this storey because i want i you’ve listened to my show, I try to be as realistic as possible. I don’t want people to think that that is life you go and you throw a frisbee in the middle of the afternoon or you you’re on the beach with your shoes off typing up your lap on your laptop making $5,000 a minute like know, when you start anything that you believe in. There is a lot of work involved. I am caught You said it yourself. I’m everywhere on the internet. I’m flying places I’m doing speaking like I’m everywhere. So it’s definitely a lot of work. However, I have that control over what I choose to do or not do. I had the choice. I had the choice to go to my wife and say, Hey, I have about an hour hour and a half in between appointments or whatever had going on that day. Do you guys want to just go outside and play? Like, to me having the choice is is so so important that people don’t realise the power of it.
David Ralph [42:10]
I heard Billy Joel being interviewed probably about 15 years ago. And this is one of these kind of little simple answers that really resonated with me. And it didn’t resonate with me as much as when I started reading Tim Ferriss four hour working week. And which is the sort of amazing book is probably about five or six years old now I suppose. But um, that that was the book that I remember, I was reading it, I got to page 44. And I it was like I was looking through different eyes. Suddenly I thought to myself, my God, why am I going to work nine to five? Why can I work at three o’clock in the morning if it suits me. And being totally liberated with my with my time. And I remember Billy Joel being interviewed and I said, You’ve had all these successes, you sold all these millions of albums, you played all these arena tours, what has your success giving you more than anything? And he said time, if I wake up and I don’t want to do it, I don’t. And that was it. And I just bought that it’s such a simple answer. But from the moment we’re, we’re kids, and we go through school and college and stuff, you got to get a job got to get a job, and you better be preparing to get a job. But now now I’m seeing it from this side. And you know, I’ve got to be very wary as you do in your show, to make sure that my opinions only expressed as my opinions and I’m not saying that everyone quits their job and sits in front of a microphone like I’m doing No, not at all. If you love your job, go out and do your job. But just do it better and better and better, because you’ll love it even more. But if you don’t like your job, then don’t do the job you can create now you’ve got the internet in front of you, you can connect, you can touch just the fact that me and Chris are having this conversation now is unbelievable. It blows my mind on a daily basis. And if you want to create a is based around anything, as long as you are getting off your backside to do it, I now believe that we’re focused action, you can make a living.
Chris Cerrone [44:11]
The key thing and you actually said it is get off your backside. because nothing’s going to happen if you don’t get up and start making it happen and start doing it.
David Ralph [44:23]
What do you love most about doing the podcasts? You know, I kind of I kind of mentioned it slightly at the beginning. But when you decided you were going to do a podcast First of all, was there a specific show? Or was there just a flavour of something you were listening to? What What is it about the podcast format that you love
Chris Cerrone [44:44]
the most? Well, I’ve always been a fan of talk radio and radio and always had dreams of being on the radio, even though I never did. So that interest me already in itself. Because as a fan of talk radio, and just you know, people talk on the mic, I would drive to work. And I would listen to these people. And I would feel like I’m in the room with them. There’s some type of personal I don’t know why Jake isn’t? Yeah, like, or I used I used to listen to this show that since been long gone. And I would always not only feel like I’m in the room with them, but like my, my mind would go wild in the sense like I wonder what they look like I wonder what colour their shirt is all they’re talking about this desk. I wonder what the desk like you know what I mean? Like I just always intrigued me. Now what I have a passion for and when I absolutely love doing his business, entrepreneurship and all these things alike. And that’s the flavour of podcasts I was listening to at the time it was Entrepreneur on Fire and solo printer hour with Michael O’Neill and all the usual suspects. And it just kind of clicked to me like Why don’t I start a podcast? I have a passion for it. I can literally talk about it. Every every day of the year if I had to never run out of ideas or things to talk about why don’t I do that? What else do I like? I like learning. I like finding out things I like hearing what the person’s shirt colour is and all that stuff. I was just thinking about radio like I like that type of stuff. So when I have, for example, for example, john Dumas on my show or a Michael O’Neill or a Renee, Christine, anybody that’s been on my show, Cynthia Sanchez like, I’m not a podcast host, I can ask them those questions. Hey, what does your shirt look like? Now? I’ve never asked someone that on my show. but you get the point I’m making like, yeah, I have the power to ask the questions that I selfishly always wanted to know. And for some reason, over 4000 people a day want to know the same questions because they keep listening to my show.
David Ralph [46:51]
You talking about Michael O’Neill there. Now Michael O’Neill is a fellow podcaster. And he is somebody that I think he launched in August last year. And I quit my job around about that time. And so I was at home a lot. And I was working, trying to get things going. And I quit my job to become a web developer. And as I started doing the web developing, I suddenly realised this bores me, I can do it quite well. I don’t think I want to do this for the rest of my life. Oh my god. And before then I used to be a trainer. And I’d stand up doing training courses and conferences and all that kind of stuff. And I used to come alive in front of people and just genuinely kind of enjoyed myself when my brain switched off. And my mouth went into overdrive. And I didn’t really know what I was saying. And it was just kind of flowing. And I was listening to Michael O’Neill one afternoon, and I don’t even remember why Oh, yes, I remember how I stumbled about it. I was listening to Entrepreneur on Fire with john Lee Dumas. And he interviewed Michael O’Neill. And Michael O’Neill said, I’m just launching tomorrow. And it was interesting because normally you come into these things, and people have been established for a while because you you haven’t seen the beginning. But with Michael O’Neill, it was the very first episodes I heard like the first word. And then I listened to the second one third one fourth one now he said about 96 episodes, and he’s you know, he’s doing great and good on him. Because, you know, he deserves the success he’s put the effort in. But if you go to episode eight of the solar printer, our you will hear my first ever performance on a podcast, where I’d been sitting there for seven episodes thinking, I think I’d like to do this, I think I’d like to do this. And I left a speak pipe message. And he actually played it on his show, and I probably edited it. Yeah, I’ll put it into my own show once. And that was the very first time and I had a tiny little rubbishy old USB microphone, headphone thing. And I plugged it into a tiny little notebook, which wasn’t up to the job. And I left a message and he actually played it. And that was the moment that I heard my voice back. And he was very complimentary. And I thought this is it, going to do it. And what why I’m telling you that storey is it doesn’t take a lot for people to actually start building their future, it just takes something doesn’t it, it takes a tiny little crack, and that crack becomes a bigger crack. And then suddenly, gosh, it comes through. And anyone who’s sitting out there that suddenly things, I’m going to start something. And within five months, as you were saying, I’m earning 5000 pounds a second or whatever, that’s not really going to happen. But what will happen is you’ll be somewhere down the path towards 5000 pounds a second. And if you’ve got their first brilliant, but it takes a realism, but you got to do those tiny little things that build up the tiny little dots make the big dots.
Chris Cerrone [49:41]
Not only that, it’s not even just all about money. It’s about experiencing life. It’s about meeting new people. It’s about getting out of your comfort zone, my show, as of What’s the date today, my show as of two days ago, has only been on the air 60 days, by the way. But is that what it is? Yeah, that’s it.
David Ralph [50:01]
Now it seems like you’ve been around forever.
Chris Cerrone [50:02]
Exactly. It’s only been 60 days. And in this 60 days, I’ve been able to because of taking action and following the crack and however you worded it but like just by doing that and being interested in moving forward. I’ve I’ve spoke maybe six times. I’ve hung out in San Diego and watched I was 10 feet away from Gary van der Chuck and listen to a keynote, only to hang out with him on the rooftop bar with a bunch of people like Michael O’Neill, john Lee Dumas, you know Chris Ducker all these people we look up to, and let’s talk about those people. Two weeks ago, I just spent a week in a mansion, it was like a 12 14,000 square foot mansion with Michael O’Neill, john Dumas, Nick Unsworth. And to go even take a step further out of that, take those guys out of the picture, I met a wonderful, awesome guy by the name of AJ Amex, or a max who’s doing so many wonderful things who has now become a friend of mine. He’s he, we actually just recorded his episode this morning. All within 60 days, I now have relationships with people I’m having I’m travelling, having a great time and all this wonderful stuff. And I have nowhere near Mike or john or Pat’s income level yet. And that’s okay with me. Because I know, in my heart, not trying to connect the dots of the future, I know in my heart, things are going to work out and I’m just going to enjoy myself now. And just
David Ralph [51:42]
keep doing it. So you have taken that classic route, you’ve surrounded yourself with people. And the reason why this works, your peer group is so important, because you surround yourself with people that are already doing it. And ahead of the curve, you can actually bring that belief that is possible into your own life. And it’s not you know, as I say, I don’t know any podcasters at all, I’ve never met one face to face, as far as I know, in the United Kingdom now aren’t any because every time I listen to a show, it’s somebody from America or Australia or whatever. You just don’t seem to hear him from the United Kingdom. I don’t know. So for you to have that connexion with those guys and hang around with them and and network with them. I’m envious. I am envious because he’s such a fast track, isn’t it to success?
Chris Cerrone [52:27]
It is and I you have to be in here’s what I’ve learned about hanging out with those guys and just networking and surrounding myself with with people that are at a higher level than me is. They’re businessmen, they’re nice, they’re they’re awesome. They’re, they’re great. But they’re businessmen. There’s a reason why they are where they are. And if you try to surround yourself with that group, and you’re really not doing anything for yourself, if, if they put it this way, if I were to be a random at an event, and you could just tell I wasn’t doing anything, or I’m going to launch at this time. And then the next time they see you you’re like, yeah, it’s this happened that happened. I pushed it out another two months. Like, you’re not going to be able you’re not gonna be in those circles very long. You know what I mean? Like, because they they they sense that people sense that back in January, the beginning of January, I was a New Media Expo, where I originally met for the first time Nick guns with Michael Neal, john Dumas all these have Cynthia, right? Like all these amazing, amazing people. And I was that guy saying, Yeah, I’m launching soon. Yeah, I’m going to do this. And I’m going to do that. And here’s what I’m going to do. I think the difference between what I’ve done and a lot of some of my friends, unfortunately, I mean, I won’t name names is, since I said all that nonsense. I’ve done it. I’ve launched, I’m reaching out, I’m doing this, I’m doing that. And people sense that they get it. They’re like, Oh, yeah, he didn’t just say he was going to do he did it.
David Ralph [53:55]
But I certainly get it. I certainly get it, Chris. Because as I say, you say you been around for 60 days, honestly, you could have told me you’ve been around for two years, I would have believed you. Now, it doesn’t make sense in that because i know i think it’s the 29th show was john Lee Dumas and the 30th. One is just been released. So yeah, that doesn’t make sense. But it does seem like you’ve been around forever in a day. And that’s only because of what you you’re getting up to on a daily basis.
Chris Cerrone [54:20]
Well, yeah. Now granted, my show has only been launched 60 days. But the work started way before. I just mentioned New Media Expo, I went to that I started back in December, reaching out to people in joining forums and all this other stuff. It started, you know, way before but in reality, it’s only been 62 days as the day we’re talking.
David Ralph [54:43]
Well, I’ve got Rick Calvert on the show on Tuesday, who is the sole creator of new demand Expo, he’s the man. And I’m going to be chatting with him on Tuesday. And it’s gonna be fascinating to see it from the other side of the fence. And a kind of, I suppose, in many ways, he’s easily got the outsider inside of you, where he used to be a blogger used to be a podcaster and stuff. But now he’s more kind of administrative. So he’s going to be on the show. And I’m going to see if he mentions Chris around
Chris Cerrone [55:14]
his should because talking about experiences, I mean, he’s a busy dude. So actually, I don’t expect them to remember this. But through a mutual with him.
David Ralph [55:23]
You slept with him.
Chris Cerrone [55:24]
You know what I’m giving you the exclusive. That’s it? You got it? No, I, through a mutual friend of ours told me Hey, Rick is in need because he’s doing the National Association of broadcasting show here in Las Vegas, he’s going to need a podcaster to do a live broadcast podcast. So I reached out to him and I said, Hey, I hear you need someone to fill the spot. I live in Las Vegas. I’m a podcaster. I do my own everything. I’ll bring my own equipment, whatever you need. I’ll do it. Now unfortunately, because of how busy both of us are. It didn’t exactly worked out as planned. And that’s okay. But going back to those experiences and things that open those opening doors that happen when you just take action, like how cool would that have been? For me, and Europe is so you can appreciate this, to go to the National Association of Broadcasters. I think that’s what it’s called the NAB show, and doing a live podcast and get to hang out with those people and talk to interesting people and network and share a cup of coffee with something like just how cool is that?
David Ralph [56:29]
You on a cool kid on here.
Chris Cerrone [56:30]
You become Oh no, I’m trying to be the cool kid. I’m trying to break the barrier of the inner circle. I don’t like inner circles. And I’m very contradictory. I know it sounds like but like I love the underdog.
David Ralph [56:46]
The one I’m still I’m still the lonely geek sitting in the shed with a microphone. But we’re hanging out with a guys you’re hanging out with them. You’re touching them. You’re you’re doing stuff with them.
Chris Cerrone [56:58]
You should because you mentioned twice there’s nobody where you’re at start, like trying to see if there is what if there’s somebody out there? The for all you know, they live two streets away from you. And they in that they wanted to start a podcast and there they geek out on all this podcasting stuff and they listened to your show. Like, yeah, you’ve only been doing it X amount of weeks, but you’re already that much farther ahead in the game. They don’t have to be big time. If I meet a podcaster in town, let’s say because this has happened by the way. And their show does 100 downloads and they they’re not like well known yet and they’re struggling or whatever they like I would have as much fun and be just as excited hanging out with them as I would say john Lee Dumas. Yeah, it’s another human being. It’s another social interaction. It’s another friend. It’s another who knows, just being a human being, you know,
David Ralph [58:02]
I think I think that’s what it’s all about. It really is. And what I want to do now, Chris, I actually want to take you back in time to hang out with another human being. Little Chris and this is the part of this show. We call the Sermon on the mic when I hand over the presenting duties to sell. And I effectively take you back in time like Marty McFly to have a one on one where it was harder to sell. A TARDIS would work as well. I don’t mind you know what TARDIS stands for?
Chris Cerrone [58:29]
Yeah, yeah. But I can’t spit it out for you right now.
David Ralph [58:34]
Time and relative dimensions in?
Unknown Speaker [58:36]
Yes, yes. Yes. Yes.
Chris Cerrone [58:38]
I actually do watch that. I do watch that show. I got hooked on it. And I know, we’re gonna go back in time. But real quick. Just like maybe six, eight months ago, I discovered that show for the first time and just became instantly instantly hooked. So
David Ralph [58:52]
it’s only been over 50 years.
Chris Cerrone [58:53]
Yeah, I know. I even want I started with the very, very the original ones from my What was it like the 60s or something like that they’re lacking black and white ones. Like, I got hooked on one season. And I’m like, wait a minute, this is way bigger than I even imagined. I’m going to start from the very beginning. So I watched those. I watched the ones from I think the 80s when it came back on the air.
David Ralph [59:14]
Yeah, the 70s. I grew up through the 70s. And I sat there with my son yesterday, who’s a big Doctor Who fan and I was having the same conversation with Cynthia Cynthia Sanchez on episode 14 about Doctor Who. And I said to our visit my doctor because everyone growing up has a doctor and it’s the one that you saw grew up with. And Come on, we will watch we watch my doctor, you know, you’ll love this. It was rubbish. It was total rubbish. The acting was rubbish. The monsters were rubbish. The scenery was rubbish, you get so used to the kind of the lighter ones, the Matt Smith and the David Tennant film. But it was just it was just poor compare it.
Chris Cerrone [59:50]
That’s that’s like Back to the Future. When I was younger, Back to the Future came out. I thought those graphics were like real life stuff. And then I go back and I watch Back to the Future, whether it’s one or two or whatever. Like this is kinda kind of crappy. But yeah, whatever.
David Ralph [1:00:08]
Don’t go back in time, don’t go back in time. Or Well, I’m going to send you back in time now not at eight miles an hour. But this is, as we say, the Sermon on the mic. And when the music fades out, this is your chance for a one to one with your younger self.
Unknown Speaker [1:00:31]
With the best.
Unknown Speaker [1:00:37]
Chris Cerrone [1:00:47]
I must tell you, Chris, in before you get freaked out, you’re not hallucinating. You’re not on drugs. You didn’t drink. This is me in the future. But I have to tell you, you are literally on the path you’re supposed to be you’re going to fail 18,000 times and that’s okay. You’re going to go through struggles. And that’s okay. I’m telling you, if I’m sure you believe me, you’re looking at me right now. Everything’s just going to work out. I’d love to tell you what it’s like in the future, I’d love to tell you that things are going to work out and you’re going to have a family and already I’m giving you too much. But I’m not going to because you need to just go through all these experiences on your own. Just remember my voice going forward. If it’s the only thing that you do, telling you that it’ll be okay. Doesn’t matter. I’m out.
David Ralph [1:01:53]
Chris Simone. How do the listeners out there that have been sewing fraud by your conversation, our conversation today how I connect with you.
Chris Cerrone [1:02:01]
So the easiest way would be just go to my website. So Roan. show.com. And the reason why I push everyone to that website is because the name Chris is pretty common here, at least where I live right? So if you type in Chris around who knows what’s going to come up but if you go to surround show calm, not only will you get to see the podcast and the episodes that we’ve we’ve referenced here, but in the top right corner, you’re going to see my Facebook, you’re going to see my YouTube, you’re going to see my Twitter, you’re going to see my whatever else like all the social media platforms, so whatever social media platform that you prefer to use, you can find me on there
David Ralph [1:02:44]
and please go across because they are they’re more than worth listening to. They have great shows and for anybody who is looking to do this kind of thing. Don’t listen to me. Go to the Masters, go go to Mr. O’Neill and Krista Roane and john Lee Dumas value know what they’re doing. I am just a a novice in a shed with a microphone. So Chris, it’s been an absolute delight to have you on the show tonight. I could have kept on talking I think this is actually our longest show we’ve gone over the hour I don’t think that’s ever been done before. But um, you’ve been so open and genuine and, and honest with your views, and of course talkative and as I say to everybody, please come back again in the future because the thing about Join Up Dots is all about casting our minds back to build our future. And of course with you you’ve got plenty more future to build so Chris around. Thank you so much,
Chris Cerrone [1:03:33]
David, thank you so much. I had a blast.
Unknown Speaker [1:03:36]