Month: March 2021

isha uppalapati

Isha Uppalapati: College Student Inspiring Girls Everywhere

Isha Uppalapati Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Business Podcast

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Introducing Isha Uppalapati

Isha UppalapatiIsha Uppalapati is todays guest on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots business podcast.

She is an inspirational go getting young lady who not only has the passion to become a top entrepreneur, but also has the desire to drag others along for the ride too.

She is the founder of A Girls Frontier, an organisation founded in 2018, whilst a senior at Walton High School in Atlanta, GA.

She started A Girl’s Frontier to provide opportunities for young girls all over Metro Atlanta and the whole world.

As she says proudly “No matter where they may be, our organization makes sure that we can provide them with the necessary support for them to achieve their goals in life.

Our programs focus on education, mentorship, and outreach.

The goal of our non-profit organization in Atlanta, Georgia, is to empower young girls by helping them financially through their education, as well as teaching them important entrepreneurial skills.

We want girls to know that they can be leaders in the business world, regardless of the challenges in their way.”


How The Dots Joined Up For Isha

Now this isn’t something that just occurred over night as her entrepreneurial story started almost at the start of her life due to the loving support of her dad.

She says “Ever since I was young, my dad and I would brainstorm different tools that we could produce.

We tried to create little trinkets that would make life easier.

We also wrote small children’s books.

Over time, my desire to create new things has not faded. I want to create something that can create a change.

This is why I want to create opportunities for girls who have similar dreams that I do, but don’t have the support to do it on their own.”

So does this dream make it doubly difficult to achieve the success that she quite obviously is going to get?

Or in fact does it become easier by surrounding herself with so many similar ladies driven and focused on a bright future?

Well let’s find out as we bring onto the show to join up dots with the one and only Isha Uppalapati


Show Highlights

During todays show we discussed such weighty subjects with Isha Uppalapati

Isha shares how her father has started several companies in his life, which was so inspirational to her by his desire to never give up.

We talk openly about the slow progress that all businesses go through right at the very beginning and how to build momentum.

and lastly…….

Isha shares her view that the girls of the world are often the diamonds that are ready to be polished.


How To Connect With Isha Uppalapati




Return To The Top Of Isha Uppalapati

If you enjoyed this episode with Isha Uppalapati why not check out other inspirational chat with Squircle Author, Carson Tate, Jack Canfield and the amazing Joseph Fung

You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here – enjoy


Audio Transcription Of Isha Uppalapati Interview

Intro [0:01]
Life shouldn’t be hard life should be a fun filled adventure every day. So now start joining up dots tap into your talents, your skills, your God given gifts and tell your boss, you don’t deserve me. I’m out of here. It’s time for you to smash that alarm clock and start getting the dream business and life you will of course, are dreaming up. Let’s join your host David route from the back of his garden in the UK, or wherever he might be today with another jam packed episode of the number one hit podcast. Join Up Dots.

David Ralph [0:41]
Yes, well, good morning to you and welcome to Join Up Dots. Thank you so much for being here. You know, when I started Join Up Dots 10 years ago, almost, there were certain guests that I was really hoping to inspire. And that was the younger generation so that they could think there’s a different world out there. I don’t have to follow me Mom and Dad, I don’t have to just go into a bank and, and a finance company and just sit there for years. And today’s guest is one of those ones that is actually going to inspire you because she’s done it already. She’s only 17 years old. And she’s an inspirational go getting young lady who not only has the passion to become a top entrepreneur, but also has the desire to drag others along for the ride too. She’s the founder of a girl was frontier and organisation founded in 2018, whilst a senior a Wharton High School in Atlanta, Georgia. Now she started a girl’s frontier to provide opportunities for young girls all over metro Atlanta, and the whole world. As she says proudly, no matter wherever they may be, our organisation makes sure that we can provide them with the necessary support for them to achieve their goals in life. Our programmes focus on education, mentorship, and outreach. The goal of our nonprofit organisation in Atlanta, Georgia, is to empower young girls by helping them financially through their education, as well as teaching them important entrepreneurial skills. We want girls to know that they can be leaders in the business world, regardless of the challenges in their way. Now, this isn’t something that just occurred overnight, as an entrepreneurial story started almost at the start of our life, due to the loving support of a dad. She says, ever since I was a young, my dad and I would brainstorm different tools that we could produce, we try to create little trinkets that would make life easier. We also wrote small children’s books. Over time, my desire to create new things has not faded. I want to create something that can create a change. And this is why I want to create opportunities for girls who have similar dreams that I do, but don’t have the support to do it on their own. So does his dream make it doubly difficult to achieve the success that she quite obviously is going to get? Or in fact does it become easier by surrounding yourself with so many similar ladies driven and focused on a bright future? Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Isha Uppalapati. [3:11]
Well, how are you?

David Ralph [3:12]
I’m very well I kind of overcooked your surname now I I choked at the last minute. And I think I gave it a little bit of extra but it didn’t deserve. So I should have said it. [3:24]
Oh, Uppalapati. I think you’ve got it pretty closely.

David Ralph [3:27]
Was that okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah, just being kind to me, you’re just being kind to an old man sitting behind a microphone. So let’s start with it straight away. Because I’m, I’m referencing you from the point of my kids. And my kids won’t do anything. But anybody else I won’t even wash up or dry out without arguing, Oh, I didn’t do that. That’s not my thing. What makes you so focused on other people? Because Am I just a bit jaded? Or are most kids like you? Are my kids different? [4:03]
Well, I wouldn’t say I’m, I’m that different or anything, actually. So I was really like, blessed with that great support system, as you were saying earlier. And with the girls frontier, I just wanted to kind of create that support system for other girls around the world too. Because like, I have it and I wanted to help other girls who don’t have it, like have access to that support system. Because more than anything, that’s really what helped me the most. And I’m not gonna lie I think a lot of kids are they genuinely care about other people and they really are like, working to make like our society and community a better place knowing like my friends and people I go to school with and stuff so I’m honestly, they’re excited like to see what our generation has to offer because like, with what kids are already doing now and people that I know, I think it’s gonna be really cool.

David Ralph [4:54]
Oh, I think it’s gonna be so cool. And I never use that word, but I’m gonna say it’s gonna be awesome as well. And I know Don’t use that word either. Because it is one of those things. But my age, I’m 51 years old, we’re sort of at the cusp of the technology technology came along when we were you know, I remember the first time I heard the word Google, I remember somebody showing me how to use the internet. Now, my grandson, he’s already on his tablet, and he’s only one tapping away. So the, the advancement in technology at the same time as people being born into it, really, there’s nothing we can’t do now is aresia. [5:34]
The world like that possibilities are endless at this point. And like technology’s just changing every day, which is, like another thing because like, with my parents, they tell us how, like the internet came around, or like their smartphones came around. And that’s like, all stuff that I’m like, used to have that, you know, it’s like, it’s like, commonplace here. But that’s like, I don’t want to say back then. But like, back then, it was like, new was all brand new. And now when we’re more like used to it, and like no more, and there’s more stuff about it coming out, we can like use it more effectively and efficiently.

David Ralph [6:09]
I remember the times when you could make a phone call and people didn’t need to see your face at the same time. You know that? I look at it. And I think is that actually progress, Asia, but we’ve got to look our best every time we connect with someone, what do you think? [6:25]
Well, I can’t say I think people are like video calls that frequently. But I definitely think it’s like making people a little like a lot closer. So it makes you feel like you’re with them at all times. It’s like that comforting feeling. Not that I’m a huge fan of it per se but I wouldn’t know if it was progress and more just like another option kind of thing.

David Ralph [6:50]
I don’t like people to see me straight out of bed with the old bed hair and all that kind of stuff. I like them to think that I’m super groomed at all time. [7:01]
I don’t really mind I look the same. When I wake up or when I’m going to bed.

David Ralph [7:09]
You’re blessed. You are blessed. Right. Okay, so I’m fascinated. Obviously, we’re gonna talk about your nonprofit. But I’m fascinated about the the inspirational journey that you went on with your dad. Now, was it just playtime for you? Did you know that you were learning certain skills? Or was it just a fun thing to do? [7:30]
It was a fun thing to do. So my dad’s an entrepreneur, too, so. And like he has started multiple companies in his lifetime. And seeing like him do that. That’s something that I was like, I’m always going to do that. I’m always going to be an entrepreneur that was like my thing. And then I would make all these like little companies with my sister. We did carwash services and like bake sales and stuff. But the thing is, like, we didn’t just do the I didn’t just make it like the big set. Like I had to make it like a company. Like I had to have the website, the business cards and like, at seven years old, like I thought that’s what makes a company you know, the website and the business cards.

David Ralph [8:13]
Man, people still do Asia I speak to adults all the time, and they still think it’s the logo in the business card. So you you was ahead of the curve there. [8:24]
So yeah, like that’s what I always thought so I would always like start these many companies when I was younger, and then later we like would write I was really into like writing these little children’s books. I wrote once I even wrote one about Indra Nooyi who is like the former CEO of Pepsi and stuff because she was a big inspiration for me and I was like, pretty young at this point. I think that’s kind of where it started. Really? And

David Ralph [8:47]
did you ever see your dad sort of stressed out because it’s quite easy to make entrepreneur or life sounds amazing, but you just create new companies and new opportunities but it’s not as easy as maybe we’re making this conversation sound so Did you ever see the dark side Asia? Did you Did your dad ever show you that the side that maybe isn’t what people want to hear about? [9:13]
Yeah, definitely for sure. Like, um, and there have been parts of times when I saw it like I guess the darker side of entrepreneur entrepreneurial ism but with um, with my dad who never really give up on his will on his ventures and stuff. And it never like I know a lot of small businesses and stuff don’t usually do well and they fail but I think my dad had a lot of experience and was very intelligent in the way he did it. So he never really we never really suffered to that like suffered really much.

David Ralph [9:49]
What What do you think about because something jumped out there but your dad never gave up. And what’s quite obvious we building multiple online businesses, but I have a More often than not, you don’t give up. But you do have to change direction, you have to pivot slightly. Yep. It’s never a failure. But sometimes you’re slightly around the curve when you should be going on the straight. What What do you think about that in building online businesses and advice for your, your mentorship? [10:19]
And I think I think you’re gonna have to change the path at all times, like, there’s always gonna be like a point and a point B. And then however you like, get to that path is just like, it’s just the way like the path is laid out. Like, there’s gonna be times where there’s obstacles in your way, and you could just go around them, or you can try to overcome them. It depends. But like, even with my nonprofit, per se, it’s not like a for profit company. But like, before, the before the pandemic, I had all these like plans for like girls and leadership and to host all these events and stuff. But with obviously, with COVID-19, I couldn’t do a lot of things I was planning on doing. So I had to shift my focus a little bit and being like, wait, like, even though I can’t do this right now, right now, more than more than helping girls like, in leadership, right now girls need access to education. And so I had an eye so I did switch my, my view a little bit for the challenges that were in my way. And I feel like you have to constantly be, like, innovative, I guess, or changing or your business is gonna fail? Like, that’s the truth of it.

David Ralph [11:32]
Yeah, I think there’s two ways of it, you’ve either got such a strong brand, but loyalty, you know, we can look at Apple. Now Apple could do some really bad things, I suppose. But that the loyalty would probably take them through the bad times, because people are so sort of obsessed with, with the simplicity and the beauty of the product or whatever they think. Or you do have to pivot but some companies I find pivot too far away from what the customer is actually wanting. And then really struggle to sort of find their way again, with yourself, as it’s a nonprofit. Where does that fit within the kind of the branding and the, the understanding of what you’re actually offering? Because I don’t do nonprofit. And so I’m interested in how you actually set that up. So people actually understand that it’s better for them, and not for you. [12:32]
Um, well, I think the biggest thing is being like transparent about it. And that’s a great thing with like, online stuff and like technology. And it’s like, you can show people what you’re actually doing. Like, it’s not just like, oh, telling people like, this is what I do. Like, on my website, like I’m photos or like, you have this, like you have testimonies and stuff of like things you’re actually doing. So people understand that. It’s like, not some, like, scam, fake thing, but it’s an actual organisation in which your, like, your intended goal, which is like to help these girls is actually like happening.

David Ralph [13:09]
Now, with your website, I’m on here, you you were booked on the show, I don’t know about two months ago or something. And, and now we finally got you on, and we’re glad you are. And the website has changed quite a lot since the last time I looked at it. And it’s very much more focused on sections, I suppose. And groups. Now what surprised me is how young you’re looking, you know, it’s not teenagers. We’re talking about somebody’s kids on there. They look about six to eight years old, you know, how young Are you expecting or hoping to actually get as signups for your girls frontier II show? [13:51]
Well, in the way it works is so um, for, like, I have different programmes. And when I’m sponsoring like kids education, I prefer to go a little younger, because I feel like if they have that very strong foundation from a young age, they can accomplish so much more. And it’s not that like, I don’t want to sponsor these older kids. I just don’t have the, obviously the funds to provide for everyone. And I mean, if I did, I totally would, because, like, I’m blessed to have an amazing education. And I think that’s one of the most important things to becoming a leader too. And but I think that starting young in the sense of like, building a solid foundation is very important. But then when it comes to things like my iPad drives in which I’m helping give out iPads to girls, especially during the pandemic, who need technology, I think the older kids need it more because from when I was in middle school, elementary school, I didn’t really need too much technology. I know things have significantly changed now, especially with like virtual school and stuff, but I definitely think as like a high schooler or Later middle middle the floor, you kind of need technology more than per se and six year old.

David Ralph [15:08]
Now looking at what you’ve got, once again, it’s building any business, even a business like this, I think this is brilliant, you know you are such an inspiration, I’m not getting away from it. And you look at it and you think this, this is a given, you know, people are going to be clamouring to this, it still takes time to find its feet, it still takes takes time to sort of get it off the ground. Now I can see that you’ve done the hard work, you’ve actually gone out and set up stalls and spoken to people lied. So tell us that first bit from the idea to actually forming it into something that people understood and people wanted to sign up with? Because it’s always slow, isn’t it? No, nobody ever, I don’t think unless they’re lying really set something up, and it comes off like a rocket. [15:56]
Right. So, um, I found it at my freshman year of high school, I found that a girl turned to my freshman year, and I was pretty, I will not lie, it was a little slow for a little bit to begin with. And then, um, during, to me, like one of the biggest outreach that I got, like attention, per se, is I wrote a book this past summer. And with that book, all my proceeds go to a girlfriend tear. And the book got a lot more attention than I even thought it would. And with that I got a lot more attended to also a girlfriend here. And overall like that, um, that really increased my like outreach and stuff to

David Ralph [16:45]
know, when you’re standing in front of somebody, and I’m looking at a picture on your website, and you’re talking to a family. And it looks like you’re in a coffee shop or you in Starbucks or somewhere you are. What is what’s the interest? How do you get them to come to you because back in the day, back in the day, I brand stores, and people are quite happy to just walk past? How did you bring them in? Because that’s, that’s a big part of the business puzzle, isn’t it being able to attract people and gain their interest so that they will stop their busy lives to actually see what’s on offer to them?

Unknown Speaker [17:22]

Unknown Speaker [17:23]
um, [17:24]
so a few things, I guess, well, once some of the organisations I was working with like, like, per se, the ones in front of a coffee shop, I guess, were people I was intending to meet with like I had plans to meet with them. And I was working with Children’s Healthcare of Atlanta has outreach programmes in order to do this. But there’s also a few other ones like I hosted a book event and the way like, I have these giant like books that my dad got printed for me. And it was like my book, but just on a giant scale. And it like catches people’s attention, like you have that one thing that catches someone’s attention, and then people come up to you, and then they start talking to you. And like I had a lot of people that I did not even expect to that I would like be speaking to come up to me talk to me, and then get really interested in what I was doing as well. And I think that was really great. And as well, um, look things like this podcast or other podcasts I’ve done on or other like news articles per se. Having that attention about like my company and me has also caused people to reach out to me directly after reading those being like, I want to support what you’re doing.

David Ralph [18:35]
Yeah, I think he’s a given that people will want to because, as I say, I’ve done about 2000 podcast interviews over many, many years. And I would say I’m struggling to think of any there might been in the past that are nonprofit, it’s always somebody trying to make a living, somebody’s trying to make their first six figures and to be out but to spend their time and effort, pushing it away from them to actually support others. I want to spin it on its head Actually, I’m just gonna play a sound clip and I will be back with you is Jim Carrey.

Jim Carrey [19:09]
My father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was it you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.

David Ralph [19:36]
Now, the question I want to ask is, as I say, most people come to me with a business and then once they’ve been in business for 10 1520 years, they then start to spin it and start to think about pushing it back to the world and offering more value and they get into charity. They get into investing they get into startups or whatever. Now you’ve kind of done it the opposite way or have you about other businesses that you’re running in the background that are keeping you the financial support? Or is it as we like to say over here? Is it the Bank of dad, that’s allowing you to go through your education and focus your time on this? Well, it [20:17]
is my parents both. Like, that’s the thing is, I’m so lucky to have the support system, that I don’t have to work in order to supplement my own income, in order to like, pay for school and pay for things that I need. And my parents are willing to support me through all of this and have been my entire lives. And with that, I’m taking what I was given, and I want to, and I’m so grateful for that, that I want to give to other people who don’t have these opportunities that I had to like, to not have to work or not have to supplement my own income.

David Ralph [20:53]
And why, again, was from Tia, I do not like boys, it’s as well it is it is a boys and men not your thing, why just girls,

Outro [21:03]
um, [21:05]
I have nothing against boys or men. And it’s, I feel that there is definitely a gap and especially education to girls, and girls and leadership with the whole with the glass ceiling and things. And I want to show girls that they can be anything they want. I have a lot of I have a sister too. And both of us have been encouraged our entire lives by both our parents that we can be or do anything want. And I know a lot of girls, and a lot of families are not like that, and which boys are told that they could be anything they want. And oftentimes, girls are not. And I want to bridge this gap.

David Ralph [21:45]
That really I’m jumping in there because I would have thought that sort of old school, did you think that still out there. But that gets suppressed somehow and boys get the opportunities. [21:58]
I wouldn’t say it’s like suppressed or by any means. But I definitely believe there’s a gap in education significantly, there’s a gap in education. And it’s more of like, a mentality because, yes, it is an old school thing of like, girls can’t do this. But oftentimes, obviously not my parents, but I know other people like their, with their parents mentality that comes from their grandparents. And this way of Oh, like, these are more like girl jobs like, or a girl also needs to take care of her family and have her family. So she can’t progress as quickly up the ladder as say a guy can because he doesn’t have to stay home with the kids and things like that. And I feel like the thing is girls can do anything, and they actually can. And I know they can. And I know plenty of women who are these amazing examples of being able to do anything and accomplish anything. But, um, I wanted to get into the point because I know there are parts of society that tell them that they can’t.

David Ralph [23:04]
I would hate to think that that’s true. Maybe I’m in a naive world, I just know about I look at everyone as a diamond ready to be polished. And some some people were never going to be polished because they want to help themselves. But the gems out there, the ones that really have got that spark. Okay, can you see that? Can you see the girls that come along? And you think to yourself, yeah, you’ve got that that kind of X Factor, you’re willing to do the extra you’re willing to do the hassle against the ones that you think, Okay, this is just a passion you’re going through at the moment, and it’s gonna pass. [23:41]
I mean, absolutely, but I’m not gonna lie, I think you are just like, you have the mindset that I think that most of the, like the rest of the world needs to had have that. Everyone’s like a diamond waiting to be polished or like, can be can achieve this full potential level. But a lot of people place this potential level at different places for girls and guys, because they have different expectations for what a girl should do, and what a guy should do. And with that, I’m like, I definitely have seen girls that I know are passionate and that are very, that are going to be like amazing people and leaders in their field. And that’s who I want to work with because and a lot of times those girls don’t have access to this education. I work with these girls on doors and all of them have been saved from severe sexual and sexual abuse from human trafficking, whether or like their families are such and these girls are incredible. They’re the smartest, most resilient people I’ve met, but they’ve been through a lot and a lot of girls go through that of the of human Foreign girls are stuck in human trafficking. It’s a billion dollar industry. And that is definitely a disadvantage to their that they’re more likely to be vulnerable to something like that.

David Ralph [25:11]
So somebody who has had a really rough upbringing, and they been sexually abused, and they are being trafficked, or whatever, how do you reach out and find those people? Because they’re the ones that I think are the diamonds. They’re the ones that actually have got so much more to work against and rally against, you know, I sometimes look at my kids, and I think to myself, yeah, maybe they’re so lazy, because what have they got to work for? They got a lovely house, they’ve got Wi Fi, when they want it, they’ve got Netflix, they’ve got Amazon, you know, whatever they want. They’ve just kind of got it bare anyway. So when I say to them, come on, mow the lawns. For me, I’ve literally got to write a check, or they won’t do it. Because what’s the point I can just earn money in an easier way. So with these these skills, these unfortunate girls that you find how do you find them? How do you find those people? Well, [26:10]
I work with organisations that help combat human trafficking. And with that I choose to work with these girls specifically in helping sponsor education, because

these girls need need a lot. But I mean, obviously, like any children, do, they need a family and these organisations help provide this family and I try to help help as much as I can there. And I actually not only with like a girlfriend here, but with outside organisations, I do work against human trafficking as well. I

David Ralph [26:43]
don’t know if I could do this. I think you you’ve got a tougher skin than me. I think that I would want to just sweep them up in the arms and kind of adopt them somehow to get them away from it. More than teaching them the skills. Do you fear that you’re teaching them the skills whilst they’re still in that situation? Did you find that difficult as well? Not to just being right, come come with me. And I’ll hide you somewhere. No, these [27:12]
girls have been brought to birth.

David Ralph [27:15]
Right, right. Okay, so so I’ve been saved in certain regards. [27:21]
Yes. And there, they are living a much, much better life. But there’s so much to heal from. And stuff like these girls say they come in at 13. And they never been to school. They have no education. They don’t know how to read or write. And they’re starting kindergarten at the age that most people start, like seventh or eighth grade. Yeah. And it’s they make up for this gap so quickly. They’re the fastest learners, they’re so incredibly resilient. And they’re so like, passionate about what they’re doing. And they’re happy about the little things too, which is something like, that’s incredible to see. And I love talking to them. They’re the sweetest, most energetic little girls I’ve ever talked to. Oh, nice.

David Ralph [28:09]
That’s the key to success. It doesn’t matter who I speak to. They will say, Be grateful, show gratitude, you know, be humble, show passion. And that’s where success comes to you. Do you think it’s easier to find success? I’ve often thought this referencing once again, my kids and other people that I see who are rallying against something, do you think it’s easier? If that does the passion stay longer, when I actually can really make a difference to their life instead of just earning a few dollars here and there? [28:44]
Um, I don’t think so. I think passion is like something that’s innate to who you are. And whether it’s like, I don’t think it’s something that like really goes away.

David Ralph [28:55]
Does doesn’t matter, because you know, that there’s, you know, you must have seen so many girls that you for are they’re really on this, they’re really working hard. And then, you know, you can see the passion dwindling away. Other things come into it, you know, life is littered with people that buy everything self development book in every race and every bad because it’s going to be their next big thing. And then they change and they move on, you know, you must see that surely. [29:24]
Yeah. But like, to me, passion is something that’s always there. And it’s like whether or not they think that their passion is going to be useful or it’s going to it’s going to get them what they want. So I guess at the end of the day, I mean, you’re correct, but if people are like, Oh, my passion can make me money. Oh, my passion can make me a better person. Oh, my passion can help others. Like they’re gonna keep with it. It’s usually passions fade out when you realise that when people realise that like they’re they don’t have They don’t have the motivation to keep going with it more than a passion thing. It’s like you’re, you have to have the motivation and the passion, it’s not a one or the other situation.

David Ralph [30:09]
So imagine that I decide that I want to be a tennis player, and I’m really sort of obsessed with tennis for a period of time, are we saying here, then everybody has got a pull of passion in them to make a big difference, but they can spend it in the wrong area, because I see that passion is an energy thing. And when you get the energy back, that’s when you’re on your game, that’s when you really want to carry on. That’s why it’s so obvious review, you’re gaining as much back from your programmes as you are giving out. And when it’s just one way direction, that’s when people start to sort of fade and flag do you think? [30:47]
Yeah, well, I mean, think about it, say you were saying that you wanted to be this amazing tennis player, unless you’re willing to put in the work of practising like these 10 hours, 10 to 12 hours a day, like these amazing tennis players actually do, you have to put in the work, like, you have to have the motivation to put in the work, and you can have the passion all you want. But unless you do anything, if you don’t do anything about it, and if you don’t work for it, like it’s not, nothing’s gonna happen, you can still have the passion.

David Ralph [31:14]
Let’s take you back bend to that slow part of the business, because this is one of the fundamental building blocks of having to hit ball and ball and ball over the net before you get any rewards. What can people out there look for to keep them focused? When they’re not feeling like they’re making movement? Of course they are. They they’re, they’re improving, they’re building up muscle memory, or whatever it is. But what can I focus on to keep themselves going when they’re not getting what they expected to get from the business? straight off? [31:52]
I mean, I think Well, yeah, everything has like highs and lows. And then you have to see that, like, look into to see like what my business can be, like, if I keep working into this work, what can I do, and work to like a very specific goal, do very small projects first, do like smaller things. And that way, it’ll make you feel like wait, this is something that’s concrete, this is making a difference. And then slowly, like those small things will become bigger things will add up over time.

David Ralph [32:25]
Are you saying that they will join up their dots and all the dots will be something amazing? [32:31]

David Ralph [32:32]
yes. Say you see what I’ve done with this show. So and it is true, isn’t it? It’s, you know, I never thought I was going to record the 2000 podcasts, I just wanted to recall one. And then it went to two and then it went to 100. And when it went to 300. And little by little when you’re doing that you’re improving your skills over time, until the weld looks around at you and says, oh, you’re a podcaster or your best or you’re fat. So with you, what do you think that people look at you as did I think you’re an entrepreneur? Or do they think that you are more inspirational? Because I’ll be honest, you’re an inspiration to me, you’re more than an entrepreneur, because you’re so focused on others? [33:17]
Well, to start off with it, I mean, I’m still in high school. So first of all, when people look at me, they think I’m just a high schooler. But um, I think, I think for me, I am a little less of like, the full fledged entrepreneur yet. And I mean, I hope to be to be an entrepreneur in the future again, and start and or continue my, I’m continuing my organisation and such, but, um, I think more than that, they just people would see someone that’s like passionate about what she does.

David Ralph [33:50]
And that passion obviously is like a waterfall that must cascade into other stuff. You. You’re a bit you’re a high achiever at your school studies as well. Yeah. [34:01]
Yeah. So I would say that I am.

David Ralph [34:02]
Yeah, I used to hate people like you that were just good at everything. I used to struggle to try to sort of get passed on these things. Now, we’ve your programmes. What’s the first step? So? Is it parents or should parents generally or guardians come prove to you or do more girls sign up instantly? [34:26]
I’m more than that. It’s I’m, I reach out to people more than people coming to me. Okay. People tend to come to me on the donation aspect of things. And then I reached out to girls that I believe or

David Ralph [34:42]
what do you think that is? You’re going on podcasts? You’ve got your book, The programme is growing. I look at it and I think this is brilliant. This is excellent. Why do you think that people aren’t flocking to you and what can we do about it? [34:58]
I think that’s something that I get I need to change about my organisation because when I’m starting when I was starting and, like, up until about this point, like, it was me reaching out to people, and that’s how I got traction. That’s how, like, I was found. But now that I have been on these podcasts such as like, this one, um, people actually are reaching out to me. So I should you write like I should make it a programme in which I can just take these girls that reach out to me specifically.

David Ralph [35:27]
I personally would reach up hi to people like Oprah. I know, Alan dude does things, that those kinds of programmes that you’ve got in the States, I think that they would be interested in this. Certainly, I would think Oprah would be wherever you get through the gatekeeper in every bank. But that could be the the breaking of the dam, you only need somebody support a bat level. And it all starts coming true. [35:58]
I mean, yeah, it to be on Oprah would be an accomplishment or like to speak with her would be an accomplishment of, Oh, my God, I don’t even know. But

Unknown Speaker [36:09]
you can be amazing.

David Ralph [36:11]
You could do it, I could be yours. Now not Fingers crossed. I think you can do anything you want. You’ve just got to be strategic about how you provide the value to them, you know, they must get so many pitches all the time. And by spinning it on his head to being How can you actually bring value to them. And you’ll get through the door. I think that you should start tweeting stuff, posting, you know, all linking to get on Oprah not actually to get on Oprah, but be on a TV programme. [36:46]
I feel like that’s actually a good idea.

David Ralph [36:48]
And I might have to start doing that. That’s right. That’s what we do is a good idea. You say you just bought you come on a podcast, but we’re, we’re back. And I’ll tell you what, if you do get Oprah on to support you and stuff, come back on the show and tell us how you did it. Because I I can’t see why she wouldn’t. Because this is what she’s all about. She had one of those upbringings where, you know, she was sexually abused. He didn’t have clothes, she dragged herself out. And so to see what you’re doing, I would say there’s the tracks aligned somehow, don’t they? Yeah, [37:23]
I definitely agree. And I feel like she could relate personally to what I’m doing. And that would be a lot more enticing to her than if I then if say she didn’t relate. So personally,

David Ralph [37:34]
yeah, you go through it, you go, you go for it, girl. That’s what the Americans say. Okay, so let’s move on slightly, I want to hear the words of the late Steve Jobs, and then relate them to what we’re doing here, Steve Jobs.

Steve Jobs [37:47]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards. 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference. Now, obviously,

David Ralph [38:23]
you’re still a young lady, did you have that baby? Or does that not come into it? Do we need faith more when we become a little bit older and jaded? Is it all positive and opportunities at your level? [38:37]
I wouldn’t say that, I think pretty much for everyone. It’s like some things don’t work out. And then and you have to remind yourself that other things do and you have to keep going like this one. Could this one will work out like you got to keep reminding yourself that just because one failed opportunity does not mean that all your opportunities are a failure

David Ralph [38:59]
would be because I don’t think that we do have babies. I know they people say we have failures, but I think we just learned better ways of doing stuff. But when you look back on things, are there things that you look at? And you think, yeah, that it wasn’t a failure, but it was so off what I should have been doing at that time. [39:21]
Yeah, so like, I also don’t really believe anything’s a failure, I believe Actually, I believe things are a failure. Unless, if you don’t learn from the mistake, like I feel like things are mistakes and opportunities to learn unless you choose not to learn from that mistake. But I definitely think my thing is personally for like with my business and stuff, all the mistakes that I’ve made I feel that I’ve learned from so I don’t really consider them failures.

Unknown Speaker [39:52]
I wish

David Ralph [39:53]
I could have been you because I had no ambition growing up at all. I just basically went through the education system. Tim got a job spent 10 years but I had none until I hit my sort of late 30s when suddenly the ambition sort of flooded into me. He is it more commonplace now? Because you know, going back to the beginning of the conversation with the opportunities and the iPads and the tablets and creating huge followings on Tick Tock and stuff. Do you think more people have got ambition because it’s so readily available to see what other people are doing out there? I’m thinking I’ll have a piece of that. [40:33]
I think it’s just easier to with like the internet and stuff to be like, Oh, wait, other people can do this. It’s not just like, someone out there. That’s unattainable. But with like, the internet, these people feel so much closer, like kids your age your kids minds that are like doing this stuff. And I’m like, okay, I can do it too. Like, it’s not just something that I have to wait till I’m older, like, you can do it now. And the internet provides so many resources, so many examples of what you can and can’t like what you can do.

David Ralph [41:01]
Yeah, cuz I grew up before the internet, obviously. And you just basically you got a job in an office, there wasn’t anything because of that inability to see the crazy things that people are doing that seems so fun, and so inspiring. But now, that’s one of the big things that people should do, isn’t it, look around, and really, don’t just look around and flick up and down on your news feeds, but do a deep dive on stuff that interests you. [41:29]
I mean, exactly. And then it’s like the whole point about the passion that we talked about, you have to have the motivation to follow through with your passion. So if you are passionate about something, spend time looking into it. So like you can figure out like what you can do to make your passion, concrete and a reality.

David Ralph [41:47]
So before we send you on the Sermon on the mic to go back in time to have a one on one with your younger self, what is your sort of next maybe two goals for your nonprofit at a moment ago, it was frontier, what the two next things that you’re really focused on at the moment? [42:06]
Um, well, first of all, I’m going to college next year. So I will be moving soon. So I hope that like I want to set up new routes for my organisation, and create a little community for my organisation wherever I end up there. And then also, I’m working on getting more girls sponsored under like our education.

David Ralph [42:33]
So it’s coming to focusing in on yourself first, but always keeping an eye on everybody else. And where are you? Where are you going to college? [42:44]
I actually don’t know yet. I will find out in about a month. So

David Ralph [42:48]
where do you hope to go? Well, what’s, where’s your focus? Um, [42:53]
my top few schools are Princeton, Stanford and Yale.

David Ralph [42:56]
Oh, Blimey, you are high achievers. See? Well, I aim for the stars. I aim for the stars. And even if you don’t get the stars, you can grab the moon, I wish you the best of success to get into those places. That’s that’s your ticket? Isn’t it? Really, if you get there, I suppose. [43:12]
It I feel I’m not gonna lie. That’s been something like everyone’s told me and I do definitely believe that going on. Like a good school helps you a lot. But it’s all about what you do at those schools. And what’s like the experience you make out of that?

David Ralph [43:25]
Well, I’m sure just speaking to you for the last hour, you will make every opportunity come true. from whatever school you end up. So congratulations to you there. Now, Aisha. This is the part of the show that we called a sermon on the mic when we’re gonna play some music and send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. Now, you’re still quite young. So I’m going to be interested in what age you would like to go back to speak to if you have the chance and what advice you would give. So I’m going to play the music and when it fades is your time to talk to each other. This is the Sermon on the mind.

Unknown Speaker [44:06]
We go with the speed of the show. [44:23]
Okay, so I’m going to choose to talk to I think about my middle school stuff. I think I’d say around seventh grade, so 1213 maybe. So I’m 17 now so I mean, back then, like I was so much more. I’m not confident about my future. And I mean, like just in this podcast itself. I talked about how I can take every opportunity like a mistake like I can learn from my mistakes or I failed opportunities, not like everything’s failed. But back then, like, honestly, even freshman year, like I was like, Oh, I failed, I completely failed. Like, I am a failure in that sense. And, like, that’s not the truth. And I thought this to myself, I’m all the time. And it was just, it didn’t help in having like this, it was like almost a negative mindset. And having a negative mindset does not help and change. Like, the one thing I would say to you, my younger self, is to change that negative mindset early on, like realise that one, failure does not mean you feel that everything, like one failure is just, it’s, it’s just a mistake, it’s an opportunity to learn. And I think being so young, you have so much time to learn from everything, like really messing up on one thing is not the end of the world, like doing that on one test doesn’t really matter. At the end of the day. Doing that at like one game, like anything like that. I’m not getting the kind of success I want. It’s just, it’s not the end of the world. It’s not the end of my life, like I have so much more. We we have so much more in front of us. And it’s taking those taking those mistakes as what they are a mistake, not a failure, not the end all be all, like my life, but just something to learn.

David Ralph [46:39]
powerful stuff, and I know that little girl will will learn because I get chance to speak to the big version of her. And she’s been an absolute delight. So for everybody out there listening Aisha, what’s the number one best way that they can connect with you. [46:55]
Um, you can email me or you can email me at

David Ralph [47:02]
we will have all the links in the show notes to make it as easy as possible. Aisha, thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots. And please come back again, when you got more dots to join up. Because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is always the best way to build our futures. Aisha, thank you so much. [47:21]
Thank you.

David Ralph [47:24]
Aisha from a girl was front here. So yes, 17 years old, I find these. Yeah, they are kids, aren’t they? You know, but I find them absolutely inspirational. But they’ve got so much positivity and focus to change beings because, you know, I didn’t Yeah, I was I was just, I didn’t know what I wanted to do. And I look back on it. And I think my God, they are so ahead of the curve. And for everybody out there. It’s the biggest learning point of success and it was one of the steps of success guy. But success really comes to you when you have a goal for yourself and a goal for the world. And when you can put the two together, it really does come together like a like a steam train towards you by having an inward outward goal. So if you’re building something at the moment and you’re struggling to get momentum, start thinking about how can you provide as much value as possible to other people, and it will start happening. I absolutely promise you. Until next time, my friends, thank you so much for being here on Join Up Dots. That was David Ralph. And that was Aisha from a girl’s frontier. See you again. Bye bye.

Outro [48:31]
Jessie Yad, Join Up. Dots. You’ve heard the conversation. Now it’s time for you to start taking massive action. Future create your life easy only you live. We’ll be back again real soon. Join Up Dots Join Up Dots, Join Up Dots Join Up Dots. Jolene, Join Up Dots.


SQUIRCLE: Francis Cholle Shows Way To Top Careers

Squircle Author Francis Cholle Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast

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Introducing The Squircle Concept

SQUIRCLESquircle author Francis Cholle, is todays guest on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots business podcast.

He is the best-selling author of The Intuitive Compass and challenger of the status quo, he has also launched his new best seller SQUIRCLE to emphasise this thinking. SQUIRCLE offers a revolutionary way of thinking that’s especially relevant to anyone looking for ways to thrive in a climate of crisis.

Cholle delivers a very simple approach to problem-solving, decision-making, and relationships that defies how culture has taught us to think. And SQUIRCLE is now a Wall Street Journal, USA Today and Amazon best seller.


How The Dots Joined Up For SQUIRCLE

As he says “Our culture has taught us that linear, rational thinking is the norm…and look where this got us.

We’re in a pandemic with global warming, a recession, and threatening divisions in global politics and economies.

We need a better way to think. SQUIRCLE recognizes the importance of our rational minds (SQUARE) while honouring the natural insights from our intuition (CIRCLE) — unlocking our capacity to find creative solutions and adapt to change.

He has has taught and tested the SQUIRCLE model with his international consultant clients for over 15 years.

This thinking has brought innovation and improved decision-making globally to over 250,000 people including graduate students from USC, Wharton and HEC, Paris, and corporate leaders at L’Oreal, J. P. Morgan Chase and Johnson & Johnson.

So how can we all start today looking at our own squircles to make progress when times are tough?

And how did this concept come to him. laying in the bath “eureka time” or simply through trial and error over many years.

Well let’s find out as we bring her onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Francis Cholle


Show Highlights

During the show we discussed such deep subjects with Francis Cholle such as:

Why Francis decided to make his home base Los Angeles and the reasons why he never wanted to live on the beach and the ocean.

Francis talks openly about his youth and how he always chose things that he enjoyed and would fill him up with passion.

We share the principles of Chinese philosophies of tai chi and Taoism and how to bring it into your life and business

 and lastly……

Why the words of Steve Jobs spoken at Stamford University plays perfectly into the methodology of squircle.


Squircle Book


How To Connect With Francis




Return To The Top Of Squircle

If you enjoyed this episode with Squircle author Francis Cholle why not check out other inspirational chat with Happiness,  Tosca Reno, Rob Moore and the amazing Clifton Strengths Finder

You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here– enjoy


Full Transcription Of Squircle Author Francis Cholle Interview

Intro [0:00]
Life shouldn’t be hard life should be a fun filled adventure every day. So now start joining up dots tap into your talents, your skills, your God given gifts and tell your boss, you don’t deserve me. I’m out of here. It’s time for you to smash that alarm clock. And start getting the dream business and life you will, of course, are dreaming of. Let’s join your host, David Ralph, from the back of his garden in the UK, or wherever he might be today with another jam packed episode of the number one hit podcast. Join Up Dots.

David Ralph [0:42]
Good morning. Good morning, and welcome to another episode of Join Up Dots. Yeah, have you? Have you ever thought about the word skwerkel? And where square meets circle where our rational minds May our intuition? No, I haven’t never thought about it at all. Until today. Well, today’s guest who’s joining us on the show. He’s the best selling author of the intuitive compass and challenger of the status quo. And he’s also launched his new best seller squircle to emphasise this thinking. Now squircle offers a revolutionary way of thinking, but it’s especially relevant to anyone looking for ways to thrive in a climate of crisis. He delivers a very simple approach to problem solving, decision making, and relationships that define how culture has taught us to think and squircle is now a Wall Street Journal usa today and Amazon bestseller. As he says our culture has taught us that linear rational thinking is the norm and look where this got us. We’re in a pandemic with global warming, a recession and threatening divisions in global politics and economies. And we need a better way to think squircle recognises this. And he’s now taught and tested the squircle model with his international consultant clients for over 15 years. So how can we all start today, looking at our own squircle was to make progress when times are tough? And how did this concept come to him laying in the barf you rica time or simply through trial and error? over many years? Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show, to start joining up dots with the one and only Francis Cholle.

Squircle Francis Cholle [2:27]
David, good morning.

David Ralph [2:28]
Good morning to you. Yes. So you’re a Frenchman in Los Angeles? Was that a good decision to make Francis

Squircle Francis Cholle [2:37]
From a climate standpoint for sure. And that’s probably one of the best climates in the world. So that makes every day actually quite enjoyable to me. And from a business standpoint, for sure, you know, I lived in New York for 10 years, which is in many ways close to Paris and some men in some ways. mentality, you know, energy, or London, I would say, but California and Los Angeles to me is really turn towards the 21st century, just the way the city is organised. It’s completely different from your typical centre of downtown, you know, of a of another Western city. And then, of course, is the world of California is the world of the reinvention of the world through digital computers and the whole tech world. So that’s why I moved here, you know, to be at the forefront of that revolution. And that innovation.

David Ralph [3:36]
SqI often think about this, and I often mentioned it on the show as well how I think I would struggle by planting myself in somewhere that’s got lovely weather, Scott beaches, you can go up into Mammoth Mountain and ski you can do anything really because California has got the Lord spent many, many months in California enjoying it. And I kind of wonder whether building a business is easier in the middle of somewhere, but you don’t want to go out your house.

Squircle Francis Cholle [4:07]
So listen, when I moved to Los Angeles after being born in Paris, raised in Paris, worked in Paris and then being 10 years in New York. I told myself, I’m not going to live on the beach because it’s going to be very hard for me to work. So I avoided Venice and Santa Monica. And I went to I went to the east side of Los Angeles like let’s Felice and eco Park. So at the time it was really really edgy and upbeat and different. So I really enjoyed it and now I live in the hills which is very comfortable you know, it’s it’s a it’s a love of nature wildlife. And I find it actually really very much supporting my squircle philosophy I have to say it’s good for a buddy it you know, you can relax, you can connect with yourself. You can live in the moment as much as being super active. And then of course now the world is at your feet on your screen and you can work with clients just from your computer. So It’s actually a very good match at this stage of my life to, to have both, you know, this beautiful nature around. And at the same time, this connection to the world within 8 million people, LA area and a buoyant economy and so many opportunities. Yeah.

David Ralph [5:19]
Now I wanted to have you on the show, because where you are at the moment, we’ve skwerkel very much plays into a journey that I’ve been on. And I’ve been reflecting recently that the beginning part of my career, and my business was very much built on intuition. until things got very tough. And then I think I flipped to the square side. And now things are easy, again, because I realised that the square side wasn’t nourishing my soul and my mind and was making me make decisions that perhaps weren’t conducive to, to the Ying and Yang, the balance of being so I’m very much based on intuition again, now, is this something, as we said in the introduction, but you’ve always known or is it something that sort of came to you through trial and error of getting yourself into a bad situation and thinking, well, how can I get out of this?

Squircle Francis Cholle [6:15]
Well, the answer is both. So as I say, in the foreword of, of squircle, which spells By the way, as QIR, CL is with square and circle coming together into one word, skwerkel, it came into my dream world, when I was five, you know, had the repeated dreams, that was telling me that my dream world with the real world, and that I would wake up to one of the illusions, of course, I know what to do with it. But it was a repeated dream. So decades later, it came back to me as I was reflecting on my work and different things, and in my life, and so, so I guess it was in me, and it’s kind of on my life, in a way. And, and then, of course, I had to rediscover it, because I was trained in a very French classical way. And that privilege is very much the rational mind and our ability to be analytical and thinkers and, and express ideas clearly in writing and in in verbal form as well in speech. And when I came to America, I didn’t think I was a creative person, I didn’t think much about creativity, I thought it was for people who were not so deep in their thinking. But actually, you know, life is creativity. And not being creative is not exactly being alive, you know, it’s living in your head, it’s being present to everything that’s available to you at any given moment. And the best channel, to get in touch with all the opportunities in business, in relationships in situations, is suddenly through experience in your mind. And clearly, so through being open, empathetic with individuals and environments that you encounter throughout your day. And that requires to step back, no better than simply wanting to understand everything at once and feel your way through the situation you’re encountering, or the conversation you’re having. And when you do this had to learn the hard way that you gain so much more. First of all, being more present, you enter more your full potential, you have more access to your full potential, in terms of adaptation, in terms of deep listening, getting to those low signals in statistics, you know, really pick up cues that you would not otherwise. And all the subtlety, all these nuances enrich the other part of yourself, which is able to analyse a situation, you know, make good judgments about the situation. And, and, and also remember your past experiences, not in a way that’s going to skew everything you do. But you know, it’s it’s a benchmark of your own. And you can also look at benchmarks of life of others that you’ve encountered. So that’s, let’s call it a holistic approach. You don’t look at things, you know, in detail the theory you, you take the situation as a whole and you let yourself be influenced as much as you’re able to piecemeal what’s around you.

David Ralph [9:24]
Now, in your book, I was reading squircle didn’t get all the way for it, I promise you because I only got it this morning. But I’ve been reading as much as possible. And I very much like the first chapter because one of the things that I’ve gone into recently is an understanding of effortless is better, just letting go and not trying to force things and not trying to be too precious about the outcome but focus more on the journey and the gifts of every day. And there’s a quote on there from Oprah Winfrey, she’s she’s wise. She knows what she’s saying. And she Just simply says, move with the flow. Don’t fight the current, resist nothing. Let life carry you. Don’t try to carry it. Now. We know don’t we I remember teaching my son to swim when he was little. And he was splashing around splashing around. And I said to him, I am. Come on Daniel, you can do this, you don’t actually have to do anything at all. I said, even dead people float. And this woman by the side of me said, Oh, you shouldn’t say that to your son. But I said, that’s it. That’s a life lesson to him. He just needs to relax and allow his body and the situation to naturally sort of unprotect him and move him on. It’s a powerful statement, isn’t it, that you can actually just relax and let life bring things to you or away from you. But don’t be too pressured about it?

Squircle Francis Cholle [10:53]
Well, it’s a discovery. It’s not easy, it’s an unlearning. But if we bring it to, to business, very often today, the CEOs I work with find themselves with no vision of the future. And they tell me very hard for me to get in the room and talk to my executive committee with no vision of the future, because that’s what they expect from me. And I say, I’m not so sure. I’m not so sure. When you’re in the when you’re in the blizzard, you know, skiing in a mountain, and you can’t see anything. And you lose your sense of orientation. Because the fog is so thick, that you cannot really put anything in perspective. What do you do? You’re going to be standing there the entire day until nighttime frozen. Okay, so you have to make one first step? And how do you make that first step? And in which direction? Do you make that first step? You know, maybe there’s a clip to the left, maybe there’s a rock to the front, and so on so forth. So and you have no clue. So how do you make that first step. So you certainly make it very cautiously. You experiment, which every scientist does to evolve a situation, you know, a theory or body of work body of knowledge, and, and you evaluate in real time, but the initial decision of going northeast was the South is from your inner nine from an alchemy, you know, a coming together of experience, memory, maybe of the place, your better judgement, and your and your feelings, and all of them come together in a way that nobody can map out. It’s not a chess game, at that moment, it’s a go game, you are constantly re evaluating the situation, based on current circumstances. And, you know, certainly in business, you can have strategies, of course, but I find that the successful clients that work with the game, they look at the future 10 years ahead, which really is, you know, far out into the environment. And then they build back, the deal back, they look at what their strengths are what you know, so you build your strategy, with a lot of scenario planning. And you, you make assumptions, and you re evaluate. And the beauty of it all today is that we have big data management. So we have in real time, a lot of information. Unfortunately, that doesn’t circulate so well in organisations for lots of different reasons. But, you know, you have lots of levers from the past from exactly now infamous situation. And all of this gives you an ability to rely less on strategy, and more on assumptions and scenario planning. And then you can really regain that ability to move forward without having full clarity about the future, which is very different than where we were 10 years ago, 20 years ago.

David Ralph [13:57]
So take us back in time on this France, to the time that France is wasn’t an offer grantees didn’t have squircle. But Francis was standing like all of us do at some time thinking, I haven’t got a clue what I want to do, but I know I don’t like what I’m doing. How did you get past that? Or did you not have that? I’ve never met somebody who hasn’t had that moment, but tell us about it.

Squircle Francis Cholle [14:25]
Okay, so thank you for the question, David. So it never really happened to me. To not like what I do, honestly, I like for instance, at school, I would pick what I liked. And there was a lot based on the teacher I had, you know what I could read that’s me, okay, who I could relate to work inspired by and the subject matter. And I made sure that through my education, I was building enough points, you know, to make through bystolic Really where we invest myself. And that’s actually how I surgically analyse my test results to get to, you know, the business school I went to in France, which was hard to get in, not only for me, but for everyone. And so I was, I was coming from really what inspires me and gives me energy pretty much without thinking about it. But then when it came narrower in our, you know, the past became narrower and narrower to get into the next level, I really looked at Okay, what can I rely on? What where can i safely surely know that I will deliver a result that will take me on the other side without necessarily carrying things that you like. So when you really get to those 1% 01 percent type of school, you what I did, though, is what I didn’t like, what I was good at, I just learned by heart. I did the whole thing by heart, and I just like studied everything. And you know, it’s okay, well, I’m not good. That’s not my natural gift. But I’m going to limit the fall. Okay, so that’s what I did now. When so that was when I was young. And you know, when you were young, I mean, at least at my at my in my generation. You know, it was hard to really shake up the framework, you know, you were you had to adapt to the framework. Did you

David Ralph [16:17]
so crazy times, Francis, you sound like you were really playing? organised? Did you? Did

Unknown Speaker [16:23]
you go? No, no, no.

Squircle Francis Cholle [16:27]
Of course, of course, I will tell you that. So so that all led me for instance, to choose to take on, I was 20, for a publishing house and art book publishing house in Paris, where I was asked to revamp the company, I was 24. And honestly, I’ve not done much during my business school, because I wasn’t really inspired by what I was thought I thought at the time. So I so there, I used as I tried to as much as possible pick subjects that would be interesting to me to keep the Jews going. And I travelled a lot. During those years at school, I travel a lot, I made sure that all my internships were, you know, entrepreneurial, and travelling. And so I can’t tell you how many countries I went to in three years, but I went to a lot of countries. And, and then so I didn’t know what to do coming out of business school. Anyway, that fit on my laps, I was offered to go into advertising. And I thought that would not be good for me. When I read allow the better part of myself to really come out and be and be happy and enjoy the world enjoy my life, I thought that would be very competitive. And, and probably a bit narcissistic at the time. So I don’t know, it’s not going to be for me, and I entered that very small company. And there was a dream job. And I no clue when I came in, asked for the salary I wanted, because I thought it was important to be paid the value that worked for and all the potential I was going to give and I worked very, very hard for four years. And I loved every moment of it until I realised that my partner was the son of the founder of the publishing house was actually quite destructive in his way of management. He was the age of my father. So without that easier dynamic for me to look at. But I told him one day, listen, his name was Eric, I said, either you make me President and I stay. Or I would have to leave because all the work the good work that we’ve done, which has doubled this other company, and made it the most profitable publishing house in France. and strengthening the reputation of the brand of the publishing house globally, is being reverted right now. And I’m sorry, I worked super hard. And you know that so, and I’ve enjoyed every bit of it, but I don’t think we can carry on this way. And I love the company because you give me this opportunity.

David Ralph [18:45]
Oh, every area is still around. If you stick around, you’ve missed out on Francis, he ends up on Join Up Dots you could have had him

Squircle Francis Cholle [18:54]
at Listen, David, the company two or three years later, after I left was sold to a big global publishing house, which was the nightmare of my my partner, you know who really anything but to give his company to be capitalism, because that was really, really against his political ideas, which was one of the issue we had, he was very ideological, in his way of looking at artistry. And anyway, so for four years, I went in this job and and then said, You know what, you know, it’s not working for me. So either I take the lead, because I know I’ll do better, including him. Absolutely. Chris has a wealth of knowledge. I was just tiptoeing in the world of being a publisher working with you know, global minds that are experts, you know, global experts on subjects. I worked with them over the past four years as much the four years there as much as I was managing the company and reforming it and making more dynamic. But all of this to say that you know what? Not to my liking. I leave and then here comes the jump. I come to New York for a week soon after resigning from the company. And I wanted to create a centre for personal development, choosing the performing arts. And when I arrived in New York, I thought, you know what, I’m not going to create a company. Now, I work very hard for four years, I’m going to live that centre before I created and I joined an acting class. So an acting school that is Strasberg theatre Institute method, method acting, you know, which is where Robert Niro and Anna like when Marilyn Monroe and so on, went to work with Strasburg. And so it was a total revolution in my life from being in my head all day long working with intellectuals and or numbers. I and and bookstore owners, I, I suddenly found myself in an acting class, where you start relaxing to relax the body to make the body available to the moment because that’s your instrument for expression. This is how you’re going to reach your audience. And that was a total reversal of perspective, total

David Ralph [20:59]
sample size in tuition,

Squircle Francis Cholle [21:00]
any of it at the beginning? Was that any of it? No, no, I didn’t understand any of it. David, I live through it. I was not trying to analyse it by now looking back on it now, would

Unknown Speaker [21:09]
you say I’m gonna tell you,

Squircle Francis Cholle [21:11]
I’m gonna tell you, I’m going to say what happened. Okay, so,

David Ralph [21:14]
sorry, I’m sorry, I let you go.

Squircle Francis Cholle [21:17]
And that’s okay. It’s okay. So here I am, in New York for many years. And then above me, which was singing, you know, everybody wanted to become Robert De Niro, or service Stallone, or whatever, I just want to have a good time. And, and, you know, be more Francis, you know, just be more myself, this was really the journey. And but then, like, in singing class, my, my heart and soul were really taken over. Because I’ve been singing in choir, amateur singing, but like professional amateur and, and I. And I said, You know what, I have time, I’m young, I have money in my bank account, because I had really bad soulmate shares from the company. And so the good lump sum of money, they could find this by life, and in New York, and that’s what I did. So I totally veered off and started to study opera. And when I studied opera, I, I, again, was full on body and soul. And what I’m trying to say here, David, it’s not about analysing, but giving giving yourself to life. That’s how you build character. And that’s, you

Unknown Speaker [22:26]

Squircle Francis Cholle [22:28]
the fog, yes, but to trust, you know, to trust, it’s not something that you can buy, it’s not something that you can really fully decide something, it’s like a wild animal in you. Life is like a wild animal when you’re young. And you have to, you know, you have to activate yourself, you have to, you have to tame that energy in you. And you have that it’s not even the right word, you have to become familiar. You know, you can’t expect from yourself to the wisdom of a 50 year old when you’re 25, or 28, or 30, or 35, it takes a long time, especially for males. So, so. So I went to all these experiences, I’m just telling you this because they were led by the heart, they were led by a true deep inspiration. It wasn’t even a sense of purpose. It was just an appetite for life. And then fast forward. Part of you know, what, striving or striking out is does New York, you have to find a job. So I worked as a consultant in an advertising firm, but also then got an assignment from the former CEO of L’Oreal sardine say, oh, and Jones, and it was about the management of creative people. And that’s what got me to really reflect on everything had done. So I’m getting to your question. And I realised that managers rationalise life, you know, the environment to make projects move forward, you know, life is chaos, but somebody has to put some order to it. So we can deliver on time, within budget, meet the goals of profitability, and so on, so forth. So that’s the rational approach of a manager to the chaos of life. And then you have creative people, from researchers, chemists, makeup artists, all the way to photographers, who in the chaos of life oriented and navigate life, oriented themselves and navigate through life, with instinct with their guts, you know, and they thrive in chaos, because they know that in chaos, they will encounter the new idea if there is it come to themselves. So I saw Okay, well, that’s interesting. We need to really have both working. But what’s clear that in business, budgets, timelines, and the rationalisation takes power over the journey of instinct, the journey of navigating chaos. And I thought that is this is this is wrong, you know, because ideas come from the chaos. So you have to be able to accept chaos and try to control because if you try to control chaos, you limit yourself to encounter those great ideas that turn Apple into number one capitalization. In the world, which came from an inspiration and intuition, so there’s definitely value there that you leave on the table, you leave behind if you want to control everything. So that’s why I created intuitive intelligence, the synergy between the rational mind, and our instinctual aptitudes. And when I say synergy is very specific, it means that those two factors, those two forces, reason in instinct come together, come together with without one taking power over the other, which is very rare in business, very rare. But when you’re able to achieve this being as analytical as need to be, but not in a dominant way, and as open and vulnerable, interesting as it needs to be when you’re an artist, or a scientist who needs to prove a new theory, within the five year that you were given by your sponsor, or the industrial company that you work for, or the lab that you’re part of, you know, if you’re able to really bring those two approaches to work in synergy equally, so they can create more than the sum of what they are individually. That’s when you have intuitive intelligence. And that’s why that’s when you have amazing potential available to you. Incredible, you have the best of both worlds. And I’ve seen this over and over work. And the reason why I’m adamant about it is because unfortunately, very few people get to that place. But when you get to that place, as a leader, your organisation is transformed. The potential that is there is almost unlimited. Just like nature is limited, because you allow instinct nature in us, you know, to actually feed you with this amazing capacity for creativity, agility, and resilience, which are three traits of nature. And eating starts to emerge that you could not even imagine.

David Ralph [26:55]
Do you know Francis, I think that’s the longest answer I’ve ever had on a podcast. So I, I salute you. I, I’ve looked out my window. And although I mowed my lawn before you started talking, and now need to mow it again. So So once again, sorry, credit to you on that one. Now, what what, what kept on coming out time and time again on your story was? Is it better to just not plan? It seems to me that I used to work in corporate land, as you say people have 10 year targets five year targets, I would never write I would never write. And I used to sit there doing budget projections and stuff. And I used to think what is the point of all this, there’s too many curveballs thrown in our way to be out to plan is it better to just just allow things to naturally occur, like you say in chapter one of your book that a new way to perform better with less effort, and you tell a good story about a guy who was training for a marathon. And he’s training went out the window. So he thought, Oh, my God, I’m going to struggle here. And when he spoke to his coach, the coach just said to him, just go with it, just go with it, you’ll be all right, just fizzled, work it out. And he did his best ever score. So it seems to me that always planning and all this kind of effort, it’s better off to just just ease into it and go with it.

Squircle Francis Cholle [28:22]
So maybe, you know, well, that life is not theory, life is an experience. So you can’t come as a consultant or even as a CEO with a theory. You have to respect the context environment. And yes, there’s a lot of performance boosters that can be activated in business by destructuring. The way work is done and planned, and and strategy are being put together. Yes, I fully agree. And, equally importantly, you need to respect the culture, you need to respect what brought the company to that place. And if you have this awareness and conviction, that you can do better with less efforts, which of course, I strongly believe that’s an art form as a leader, to infuse in any organisation. Because there are antibodies that protect the system for what it is because again, the system got to that place. So there’s a lot of value in the system itself. So it’s, it’s something that you do with resolution, if that’s your conviction. And that’s what I help my clients develop, you know, understand what’s not visible with a tangible that has actually more power than the thinking and the end The end of measurable. And, you know, so I’m going to quote, Peter Drucker, you know, Graham says, culture eats strategy for breakfast. So obviously, he understood that intangible is more important than the tangible and at the same time, those kinds of statements need to live within a context, you know, needs to live within a history it needs to live with With a culture, and I talk about the concept of cultural elasticity, so you need to work with this, you know, you can pull on that elastic too much, because it’s going to break. And you do it one time, low risk, start small and smart, you see what happens, you go for the low hanging fruit, and you showcase results. And then maybe some people will be interested will create a resonance, and bit by bit, you know, you will potentially create a new approach a new way, a new way of thinking a new way of going about strategy, but I don’t think that you can just give up your p&l and, and in strategy and projections, you know, you can’t do that overnight. But you can be baby realised, as you as you saw, David for yourself that a lot of those projections, you know, are just where they are projections and reality comes in. So I hope you understand that the dialectic between the two, you know, because every case is unique, is unique. So that’s why you need external eyes, to help you look at those situations for what they are unique. Now,

David Ralph [31:08]
let’s spin it again, because one of the things that you talk about is we look at the world as black and white. Okay. But unfortunately, within the world, there’s colours and nuances. Certainly, when I was younger, I was incredibly black or white, I didn’t care what the other person was saying, if I didn’t agree with them, they would they were wrong, they would they were in the white and I was in the black. Now, I certainly live more in the greys and this sort of spectrum of colour as well, I think I still think you’re wrong, but I can see your point. And I sort of accept that. And sometimes that makes it more difficult to be as a kind of speedier, suppose and get things done. Because you see more options, instead of just having one and making the most of it.

Squircle Francis Cholle [32:00]
And your shift, you know, from black and white to colour is, you know, came through experience and building self confidence and trust in yourself, you know, so but there’s been a journey. So I think it’s a good point that you bring up, David, you know, there’s an awareness, I think that should be brought to education today. And actually, I’m working on this, to help the younger generation develop sooner, this understanding of life, and the ability to open up to nuances and, and, and grey zones without having any answer being able to move forward. But it’s a journey. It’s a journey. And, and everybody is unique. And so it’s a unique journey. It’s not something I can be from Lake or impose on anyone. That’s something that can be offered suggested, articulated through science, as well, because there’s lots of misconceptions in terms of how the brain is educated, I think. And that in the world today, I would agree with you, things being able to change so rapidly, because of global factors in the economy, in society in the environment, I think that we need to reconsider greatly, how we approach things. And, and, and realise that many, many opportunities that we have access to if we open up to it. And again, that is within a personal context as a leader and an organisational context and a market context. So I think those forces needs to be looked into. And that’s what I help my clients do. Yeah.

David Ralph [33:47]
Now, when I was reading your book, as I say, I did about four or five chapters know about four chapters. Cover struck me. And one of the things that struck me was that it’s important decisions inspired by nature. And I thought, This is interesting. This is like, do you know the dowdy Chang the de Tao is sort of Bible, it seems to have a lot of sort of Taoist principles that run through this. Is that something that you’re aware of? Or is that something that just has naturally come to you?

Squircle Francis Cholle [34:27]
I’m gonna give you an example. So you know, purposeful need, you know, natural, okay, I was, you know, when I was in publishing, Sunday morning, I was living in various close to a park and I would go running, and I would go around the park, you know, and I was 20 minutes and I would do it a few times, and to stay fit I was getting I was like, 2425 and the one day I saw people doing Tai Chi. You know that Chinese martial art Okay, and I sort of move and I was like, Oh, so is that I was in the arts. Okay, so my, my work was about a lot about beauty. So I see those figures moving as I like to I’m sweating and pushing and forcing them competing wants to go faster, I want to do more longer, you know, and I see these people moving, like a, like a feather in the air. And it’s not the case, what am I doing is really interesting. So I went there, and I, and I joined the class. So every Sunday now, I’m no longer running around the park, I’m doing Tai Chi, almost stationary, it starts with about 40 minutes of standing, still not doing anything, just feeling the energy moving through your body, and letting you be, and I can tell you the amazing amount of things that were happening. And this and I was enrolled also in a tennis training, you know, competitive training. So it’s not like I give up tennis or I give up other things. But I say to do something else. And it’s true, they created an amazing awareness. But just to tell you, so I was leaving the class, and I was so much more present, I could feel smell touch very differently, my body was transformed from pretty much not doing much actually, you know, so we’re 40 minutes standing still. And then we were just repeating those movements, you know, of Tai Chi, which of course, are very well thought out and based on marriage ends, and you know, a whole million year old practice, medical practice, you know, acupuncture and and people who have been, I stayed about three years, three, four years in that class. And with that Master, and I did some retreats with him. And so people were really sticking with them, their life got transformed, totally transformed. And one of the thing that happened to me is that I was able to confront a powerhouse partner, brilliant man, former paediatric surgeon, heart surgeon with worldwide reputation, who stopped his career, took over the family company, got his father out of the company, and brought it to the highest level of publishing worldwide in his field art history, and who called me at 24 to help him. And then four years later, I said to him, listen, either you make me pregnant or leave. And if I had not left, I would probably been crushed, and very miserable. And, and I had the ability to actually stand for my own ground. And that income from forcing my way through scores and minutes, and you know, of running fast, it was actually about standing still and unleashing an energy that was in me, that was quite powerful. And to this day, I remember and I tried to reconnect with that quality of beingness, that actually gives you a completely other way of going about achieving things. Yeah. Yeah,

David Ralph [38:12]
it doesn’t surprise me you say that, because just speaking to you, and reading your content, and during my research, there seem to be a deeper level of acceptance and presence about you, compared to a lot of the guests that come on, but all about almost showing the Superman card, and all about, Oh, yes, I do this, and I do that, and I get up every morning and I, you know, I go and murder a cow and I drag it home. And I, you know, you seem to be a lot more calm and present. And knowing,

Squircle Francis Cholle [38:47]
like you, like you live it. So it is a it’s an everyday teaching, because you know, nature is not stable, from our perspective is probably the most stable thing that we have around ourselves, you know, the sun rises every morning, extremely, extremely faithfully, but we still see it as not stable. So it fluctuates. So I have to tell you, yesterday, I took a nap. And I wanted that up to be 10 minutes, and that that was an hour, and I couldn’t really get out of it. And my buddy was just processing things. And I cannot tell you what he was processing. We were supposed to sing something. And I work with, you know, high power CEOs leading billion dollar companies, I try to give them my best with a great sense of responsibility for their employees for the product they bring to people that bring joy to people make difference in their lives. So I mean, it’s okay, and I think and I wake up in the middle of the night and so as soon as you really commit to something, you know, you no longer really fully in charge. You have just to accept that there’s a lot of another work come your way and that your best tool will be selling your money, your experience, but also your body because it will bring you the insight that we’re not getting Access to and I think that’s what my clients pay me for, you know, for those insights that are articulated, benchmarked, and, and argumented. And, and conveyed with conviction out of all of this. And but you know, I have to give space to device that just you it’s an everyday teaching, it’s an everyday humbling.

David Ralph [40:22]
Yeah, I’ve just started getting into it. And I got into it due to the pandemic. And I got into it, because I realised that actually, I was always into it, I just hadn’t put a name on it. And once I’d actually put a name on it, it seemed to just make sense. And my life is a lot more effort free, I don’t say that I don’t work hard. But at the end of the day, I just turn off my computer or whatever I’m doing, and I don’t drag it around with me, where if you’d gone back 10 years, I couldn’t watch a single TV programme, no words went into my head, it was just I was somewhere else over time instead of being present on the moment.

Squircle Francis Cholle [41:02]
Yeah, that’s great. So, they need to simplify for your audience, you know, squircle invented squircle to show people that in any situation you can enter through the square, I know, I will figure it out, I will analyse, I will strategize. And I will define a path that will get me to my goals, okay, which has a lot of validity to a certain point. And then you have circle, which is I will meet a situation I will meet, I will encounter a situation that that situation will tell me things in ways that I cannot understand. But I can feel. So you would honestly at the time, understand why you were not able to be present, watching shows at night at a work a work day, that you could feel something but you were not able to really reckon with his feelings or just take heed of those feelings. So that’s what’s so cool that you know, it really tells you look, you can either go with a domineering approach, go about life with a domineering approach and do everything sort of square, and then you’re feeling functions, the circle will be within the frame of the square meaning good, pletely limited, amputated. And we, you know, use that word on purpose. Or you can say, I’m an intelligent man of experience. I’ve read great minds who educated me, I got frameworks, I got ways of analysing the situation, and there is more that I will ever be able to understand in front of me. So in order to get to what I don’t know, which is really what interests me, because when that when in what I don’t know, it is an opportunity to learn something new, I will not control. I will sit back as much as I am analysing and everything but I want analyse in a demeaning way that I need, I need to find the answer, no, I am in a situation, I’m open. And I will be taught into understanding things I didn’t understand before I encountered this situation. And that’s a whole other way of growing. And that’s a whole other way of engaging, and in this world that’s so disruptive, where so many things come at us that we’ve never seen or done before. There’s a huge benefit. In entering situation on with your square your rational mind and experience, but fully open to be initiated into this new way, it is a new situation into this unknown space.

David Ralph [43:27]
Let’s hear Steve Jobs.

Steve Jobs [43:28]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.

David Ralph [44:03]
So from your view, Francis, does that play into the squircle methodology? Or actually step away from it?

Squircle Francis Cholle [44:11]
No, no, no, it’s Thank you very much. You know, I always, always use Steve Jobs and Microsoft, you know, to show the two different approaches to a major major tool called the computer. So I know I fully agree with what Steve Jobs says here. You can’t connect the dots. And that’s embarrassing. That’s embarrassing. I can’t make sense of the situation. But I engage in the situation, knowing it and accepting it, which makes me much more powerful than, you know, wrestling with the idea that oh my god, I can’t connect the dots. Okay, I can’t connect the dots and accept it. It’s part of the deal. And that’s how you are a real pioneer. That’s how you really open up to a new situation and let yourself be taught by the experience of this new situation. Now, looking back is how you build your ex. variance are they have I done everything I could do have I done it the best I could do it, whatever I learned what I’ve seen others do. So that’s how you build experience you reflect you analyse, and that’s when your analytical minds very useful. And also your emotional mind, of course, your your, your, the part of you that can it value things or not that you’ve done that you want to keep. But I fully agree, you know, don’t try to connect the dots looking forward. And use all the experience everything that you went through, to see whether some invisible dots at the time have revealed themselves to build your knowledge and self confidence that the privilege of age in experience, you know, if you do that work,

David Ralph [45:49]
where are you heading? Now, before we send you back, because I know where you are heading, you’re going to be heading on the Sermon on the mic. But where are you heading now? With your, your squircle? Can you can you go deeper? Are there different? sub squircle?

Squircle Francis Cholle [46:04]
Of course, of course. So the reason why I did what I did is because I needed more out of my life, when I was an artist in New York. And I was very worried. It was only one part of my personality subtype to say, and I was very worried about the lack of sustainability of our bottles. And because I had stepped out of let’s say, the, the social path of you know, grey, your salary and your profession and everything that taken time for myself to reflect and to dig deeper into who I was, of course, I was looking at society, from an outside standpoint, and as an outsider, and I was like really worried. So I was like, what, how come humans have been able to get to the moon, very sophisticated intellect and are so inapt to live at peace and harmony with nature, which is really our cradle. Like that’s the branch we’re sitting on. And we are bit by bit breaking. So I was like this is this really doesn’t make sense. And I was carrying this big question. And then when I worked for L’Oreal, which I explained to you, the former CEO of L’Oreal silence, Edward Jones on the management of creative people, I understood the answer to my question, which was, we make decisions by looking at situations and analysing situations in a very controlling manner. we analyse things and we produce a solution, born out our analytical mind, example, plastic, plastic is cheap, convenient. You can produce it fast and in massive ways. And it renders many, many services to our lives, you know, very few homes, I don’t think there’s any home actually, in the Western world, at least, or in the modern world, that we call modern world that that that doesn’t have plastic, so it’s everywhere. And yet, we’ve created kind of a form of cancer for nature, and certainly for oceans, and certainly for fish. And eventually for us. Because when we eat fish with plastic now, so. So that’s the typical way of thinking. And I described this in chapter five, you know, with design plastic, from a square perspective, optimising rational rationally, the way we live in nature, but nature is the rational nature of another order. we’ve, we’ve we’ve tried to understand nature through science, but science is forever evolving, and learning more, you know, it’s a tool, we should never limit ourselves to a scientific approach. It’s a beautiful field, it’s an amazing field, it’s produced so much value for humanity. And we more than this at the same time. So you know, our autonomy of choice and our responsibility of choice is equally important to the knowledge and being produced. Through science, the great guys are being pushed aside. So long story short, my goal now is after I’ve proved that it works in business at the highest level of business is working with three global organisations and their CEOs to keep impacting the world through their organisations, they’re doing the best I can for their success in a stakeholder capitalism way. So you know, you you create value for all the shareholders and everybody else. And at the same time, my commitment is to help reform global education. So we can teach teenagers who are starting to enter tiptoeing, their adult life into their adult life, ways of making decisions that really, really compute with the complexity of life and not trying to reduce everything to formulas, and create human beings that are whole in their approach to their life and to into nature into What it means to flourish as a species within an ecosystem? were we not at the centre? Not at the top, we’re just part of it. Yeah. And I’m in conversations with, with people who have global influence on education, and I hope I will be able to contribute some of my experience in a very concrete, pragmatic, all the business, which is why I chose to prove my model in this world, you know, because of my background, my experience in publishing at the helm of a company, because the work I did follow realise that there was a big universe story. That’s when I wrote my first book and my second book and my third book.

David Ralph [50:38]
Yeah, and by the way, and I wish you all the best of luck with that.

Squircle Francis Cholle [50:42]
Thank you, David, and giving power to women, because I think they have a lot to tell us, you know, a lot to teach us and we don’t listen enough to them. Yeah, it’s a whole other chapter. And I created a nonprofit called the nagaworld. foundation. No better kn o w, no better world Foundation, to help women express the leadership in their personal life and professional life.

David Ralph [51:02]
I live in a house full of women, and I listened to them more than most people, or at least I pretend to Francis. Anyway, this is the part of the show that we call the sermon on a mic when we’re going to send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the young Francis, what age would you speak to him? What advice would you like to give him well, in a play the music and when it fades, it’s your time to talk, this is we go

Unknown Speaker [51:37]
with the speed of the show.

Squircle Francis Cholle [51:55]
Hey, Francis, okay, you only four. And it’s not gonna go well, in this in this school, you know that, okay, they’re about to get you out of kindergarten. It’s unusual. But one thing I’d like to share with you trust the process, trust the process, and lead with your heart at this stage of your life, you’ll make much more valuable experiences and enjoyable experiences, if Surely, with your heart, it will help you develop faith. And as an adult, you have built real convictions through your own living. And, and the one of the three words that I would leave you with is trust the process.

David Ralph [52:51]
You went from the one that a longest answers I’ve ever had to one of the shortest sermon on the mic. So once again, Francis, I salute you, I salute you, we never know what we’re going to get from you. So what’s the number one best way that our audience can connect with you, sir?

Squircle Francis Cholle [53:06]
Oh, so simply go to my website, Francis So my first name f RANCI s. And then my last name, c h, o l l e on one word, Frances And, and you can reach me there, you can just send me a message. And I’d be happy to respond if I can help in any way or direct you to readings or articles or just share some personal experiences that that got me where I am today, that might be useful to know. Thank you. They really appreciate it. We have

David Ralph [53:41]
over links on Yeah, we will have all the links on the show notes to make it as easy as possible to find to find him. So Francis, thank you so much for spending time with us today, joining up those dots. And please come back again, when you got more dots to join up. Because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our pasts is the best way to build our futures. Francis, thank you so much.

Squircle Francis Cholle [54:08]
David, thank you, it was a great show. I really appreciate all the effort you put into it. And you know, in the preparation, I really appreciate that. Thank you.

David Ralph [54:20]
So squircle, building the circle and the square into something that is strategy based, but also intuitive as well allowing things to just go and not keep on pushing. I am a total advocate of this. I totally believe that. The circle kind of gives us energy but the square gives us structure and together you’re far more powerful looking after yourself but focusing on what needs to be done but just don’t spend too long doing it. Just do what needs to be done and then rest and just move on. It makes perfect sense. It must make perfect sense to everybody out there. If you’re not looking After yourself, you’re not going to get the success you want. So it’s a double sort of unbalancing game. You can do it. You can do it people of course you can. Until next time you Look after yourselves, and I’ll see you again. Cheers. Bye bye. Are you ready to make a full time living online? Check out the amazing Join Up Dots.

Jessie at Join Up Dots. You’ve heard the conversation. Now when it’s time for you to start taking massive action. Create your life easy only you live. We’ll be back again real soon. Join Up Dots Join Up Dots Join Up Dots Join Up Dots jolina Join Up Dots


Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings

Clifton Strengths Finder Expert And Coach Lisa Cummings

Clifton Strengths Finder Expert Lisa Cummings Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast

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Introducing Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa CummingsLisa Cummings is the Clifton Strengths Finder Strength Coach, who 100% believes that it’s a lot better to become great at what you are good at and leave behind the poor stuff.

She has built an amazing coaching business all around the work done by Gallup as we discovered the last time she appeared on the show back on episode 510 .

As she says “I sometimes call myself the Chief Strengths Sleuth because I spend my days uncovering hidden talents on your teams.

Remember that song “It’s Your Thing” by the Isley Brothers?

I use those lyrics like a spotlight glass to amplify people’s differentiators.

It’s how I help you and your team figure out “your thang” so you can be more productive at work.

Starting her career as a Sales Executive for Business To Business back in 1998, it appears that the path best trodden for her actually started when moving into staff development.

Like myself she has spent most of her working life, building the strengths of individuals in corporations to make better, higher functioning teams.

Getting people to feel inspired by the working day instead of dreading that ringing sound by the side of the bed.


How The Dots Joined Up For Lisa

But what interests me is what personally was driving her back in the day.

As with a career strewn with employment lasting a couple of years at each time, it is clear to me that her ambition, was equally matched with a desire to find her thing too.

And now as a podcaster herself, or as she calls herself the Chief Strengths Sleuth: Host of the “Lead Through Strengths”​ Podcast: she helps people find and leverage their strengths at work.

Complimenting her workshops, keynote speaking and by performing a role of StrengthsFinder Performance Coach, which as you know is a publication that I have recommended many times on the show she is busier than ever..

So what is it about keynote strengths that lit her up inside and made her want to build a business around it?

And with all the issues that the world has seen in the last year, has she found more personal strengths that she didn’t have.

So lets bring her onto the show to start joining up even more dots with the one and only Lisa Cummings


Show Highlights

During the show we discussed such deep subjects with Lisa Cummings such as:

How Lisa and I both share how we both went through the dark times of entrepreneurship and the steps we took to climb back into the light.

Why you should only do the things that fill you up with energy and not depletes you.

and lastly……

Why your strengths can be so powerful in every area, but can also be used for evil and work against you if you are not careful.


How To Connect With Lisa Cummings






Return To The Top Of Clifton Strengths Finder Expert

If you enjoyed this episode with Lisa Cummings, why not check out other inspirational chat with Happiness,  Tosca Reno, Rob Moore and the amazing Christopher Dedeyan

You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here– enjoy


Full Transcription Of Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings Interview

Intro [0:00]
Life shouldn’t be hard life should be a fun filled adventure every day. So now start joining up dots tap into your talents, your skills, your God given gifts and tell your boss, you don’t deserve me. I’m out of here. It’s time for you to smash that alarm clock and start getting the dream business and life you will, of course, are dreaming up. Let’s join your host, David Ralph from the back of his garden in the UK, or wherever he might be today with another jam packed episode of the number one hit podcast. Join Up Dots.

David Ralph [0:41]
Yes, good morning to you. Good morning cheer. Yes, it’s our number one podcast. Yes, I’m number one in Mongolia or number one somewhere that nobody listens to podcasts. But that’s all right. That’s fine. That’s brilliant. I’m looking forward to today’s episode big time because what we’re trying to do in Join Up Dots we’ve, we’ve we’ve started reaching out to people that have been on the show previously, to find out what they are doing so that we can join up the dots see what we’re doing there. And the first person that we reached out to is this lady that we’ve got on today, and she’s the Clifton Strengths Finder strength coach, who 100% believes that it’s a lot better to become great at what you’re good at, and leave behind the poor stuff. Now she’s built an amazing coaching business all around the work done by Gallup. And as we discovered the last time she appeared on the show back on episode 510. She seems to love it. It seems to play to her strengths and her strengths are their strengths and it’s a big win win. As she says I sometimes call myself the chief a strength sleuth, because I spend my days uncovering hidden talents on teams. Remember that song? It’s your thing buddy Isley Brothers up be honest, I don’t. But I use those lyrics. She says like a spotlight last to amplify people’s differentiators. It’s how I help you and your team figure out Yeah, fine, so you can be more productive at work. Now starting her career as a sales executive for business to business back in 1998. It appears that the path best trodden for her actually started when moving into staff development. like myself, she spent most of her early working life building the strengths of individuals and corporations to make better higher functioning teams and getting people to feel inspired by their working day, instead of dreading that ringing sound by the side of the bed. But what interests me is what personally was driving her back in the day as we have a career strong, we’ve employment lasting a couple of years at each time, it’s clear to me that her ambition was equally matched with a desire to find her being to and now as a podcaster. herself, or as she calls herself. The chief strengths lose host of the lead through strengths podcast, I was honoured to say she helps people find the leverage their strengths at work time, now complementing our workshops, keynote speaking and by performing a roll out the Strength Finders performance coach, which as you know, is a publication that I recommend many, many times on the show, she is busier than ever. So what is it about the business of strengths that lights them up inside and made her want to build a business around it? And we’ve already issues that the world has seen in the last year how she found more personal strengths that she didn’t have before? Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up even more dots with the one and only Lisa Cummings.

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [3:29]
Hey, I’m doing great and feeling strong.

David Ralph [3:32]
I’ll bet you all because your last time we met which was 30th Of March 2016. Yep, five years ago, I bought even then that you was a bit like a Terminator. You were like, you were full of energy you were bouncing around and you seemed like life had come together in that that weird spot where the sweet spot is the whole spot and you just want to bathe in it. Do you do still feel like that? Or was I wrong? Or maybe you was projecting an image that actually wasn’t that true? Looking back on it?

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [4:07]
No, I think that was really authentic the bouncing around the boundless energy. And interestingly, and growing this business and continuing to do Clifton strengths training all these years. I still love that with all of the same fervour and zest and all of those things. But you know, I didn’t keep that energy. I had a real dip and worked through some issues with it. So even after finding that perfect sweet spot, I let workaholism ruin it for a while. So interesting how, even though the thing you’re doing can be energising you can foil your own success.

David Ralph [4:45]
Well, we both did exactly the same as I was sharing with you before and now my listeners know it all the time, because I think it’s so important. Now, you’ve got to tell people, don’t over tie yourself don’t work out. It’s not important sort of move along. So what It was it obsession to be everywhere at all times and have like a brand profile where you were basing it. This is what I did. I’m speaking about how I did it. I was basing it on what other people were doing not taking into account by had teams of people doing it. And I was trying to do it all myself.

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [5:20]
Yes, I think that’s definitely part of it. And then I think it was just leaning on what, what got me to another place. So for example, earlier in my career, when I was trying to get promoted, or be in a corporate environment and look like a, you know, the a player, employee or team member that I wanted to be, I relied a lot on persistence and hard work and staying up late and being the last one at the office and being able to be the one that anybody could count on to get it done. And then when you launch your business, and you play every role, or at least you’re delegating the roles that you’re not playing, so you’re still involved in them. I think that I just hit a ceiling of capacity. And I didn’t see it coming and had to figure out and I’m still figuring out the next phase and what that requires, because you think used to call it the hustle muscle. So it’s just like a muscle, you know, like, if you take your hamstring and you tax it and tax it and tax it and tax it, it needs to rest. That’s when the growth happens. And I wasn’t letting it rest. And if you tax it too hard all at once you get a strain or a pool, and you could damage it. I think that’s what I did to my buddy.

David Ralph [6:31]
Yeah, I was an idiot too. I don’t believe in the hustle muscle at all anymore. I think strategic hustle is good. And being very focused on what you’re doing. But actually just that constant, I will outwork the next person. I don’t believe in it at all anymore. And I I wish I could go back on my shows. Somebody said to me, is there any part of your shows you regret? And I think it was the hustle. I just thought that work? won the game. But it’s not. It’s not. It’s about being clever. It’s about resting. It’s about being focused on what your audience and your listeners and your customers want. There’s so much about business. It’s easy, Lisa, isn’t it? But until you get into it. I don’t think you realise how easy it is in many ways we overcomplicate it. What do you think?

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [7:24]
I think we overcomplicated is a statement of the decade. I think that yeah, I mean, being able to have boundaries. learn to say no, you really focused with prioritisation. Those are all things they sound they would have sounded good and true to me. I learned how to delegate worry less that you’ll disappoint someone if you say no, those would have been things I would be like, yeah, that sounds like a smart path. But it feels so good to say yes to things and making other people happy. And it feels like momentum. But saying no to things. It’s a different skill. And it’s a different level of focus. And then when you’re saying no, it also requires this bigger picture, backing up and saying what do I even want out of this life? What do I want my life to look like? Because I’m getting here’s, here’s a good example, my nickname for my husband for a while was Click, click, click boom. And it sounds like a boom, boom, it sounds something sexy, but actually it was. I’m at my computer and I’m clicking away on my keyboard, click, click, click click and the boom was when I fell asleep on my keyboard because all I did was stare at the screen and fall asleep. And that’s a that’s a good moment to stop and say, why am I doing this? What is this even for? I’m not playing the drums as much I’m not enjoying myself. I’m not writing songs.

David Ralph [8:38]
I’m not doing it just jumping in. Why were you doing it? Really? Well, what was it you were aiming to achieve?

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [8:50]
Such a deep question, David.

David Ralph [8:52]
That’s why I hit you with it. You see, because I say I’ve been reflecting on why I was doing it myself. And I still can’t quite get to the bottom of it. So I thought I’d ask you.

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [9:03]
Well, I don’t know that I’m fully to the bottom of it. But here’s what I’m suspecting. And I suspect that it was habit. So if it got me success in the past, I knew I could lean on it to get things done. So it felt like a tool that I knew how to use the persistent store the hard work tool. So I think I did it because I knew how to use that tool. But then it was it was running out of its own capacity. I think for ego because it felt good to get things done and see the levers that it moved. Like if hard work got me more revenue or that hard work, built a better funnel that day or that hard work got me another lead or landed another client. I think that felt good and it felt like success. And then I also think it has something to do with kind of a teamwork thing. So In my family, being able to make sure that I am a good teammate to my husband, and that I’m bringing in the cash for the household as well. And I think it’s been very scary to say, oh, if I step away back, and I pull back on my hours, what if it fails? What if my revenue stinks? What if I now feel like I’m not pulling my weight? I think a lot of is tied up in that fear of the unknown of what it will bring to try the other way.

David Ralph [10:28]
As you said one word, but I bought that’s it. And that’s what I’ve been reflecting on. And the one word was ego. I think, for me, it was, you know, global domination. I used to say that all the time, you know, I want the global domination. And now I look at it and think why do you want global domination other than an ego metric? And why did you want to prove to the world that you left, but you hadn’t made a mistake. And I think that was my key thing. But I’d quit a very well paid corporate gig, to do something. But effectively, people didn’t really understand. And I wanted to look, the success. Now, I don’t give a monkey’s as we say, I really don’t care. You know what people think, because I know what’s going on behind the scenes. But I think I think the ego was something that you really got to keep in check, because it can bring you to your knees.

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [11:25]
It can and I think it can be so deceiving as well, because, okay, if you are on Join Up Dots, you’re getting one bazillion downloads per show, that would feed your ego. But if you flip over to the new David, it would also tell you I’m touching more lives, and I’m doing something meaningful there. So the way that you look at the numbers, the way that you take a metric, and instead of letting it be a vanity metric, let it be something that tells you how many lives are touching or the meaning or the depth of the work that you’re doing. Sometimes I think these you almost want to throw it all out and go, I don’t care about vanity metrics anymore, because that’s all ego. But then how do you know if what you’re doing is working? It’s a whole different way of living and feeling out filling your way through the darkness

David Ralph [12:14]
is I I kind of went as quite cynical to say this, I looked at all the downloads, I was getting and stuff. And at my peak, I was getting about 500,000 a month, which is which is a lot based in but I was just doing it myself. And I started to think how many of those 500,000 are actually bringing anything back into my bank account. And it was as simple as that. And I realised that I was spending all my time growing this audience. But actually, I didn’t have any time to support the audience and reference the audience and spend time doing whatever. And I do think as well, Lisa, while we’re being totally transparent, but anybody out there who wants to launch a podcast, you’ve got to have something to hang on it. Otherwise, it’s just a thing you’re doing. You’re you’re you’re you could create this big audience, but you’ve got nothing to bring it back to. And I think I also launched the podcast, before I’d realised what the thing I was hanging on it was. And that took me quite a time to sort of develop the income streams to make it sort of very profitable. I think there’s certain things that we do online. But we almost do because we think we should be doing it. Or it looks fun, without stopping to go. Actually, what where’s the benefit to me of doing this?

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [13:32]
Yes, I think you’re hitting on something that is really important for listeners, because I know a lot of your listeners are in corporate and they’re wanting to get out. And when you’re in that place, of course, you can start getting momentum on social media. And it’s really easy to get caught up in. Okay, I’m feeling like an influencer. Now I have this many followers and fans and downloads and whatever metrics you’re using. But then, are you hanging out on top of a business model? And is it lead generation for that business model? It’s so important, because otherwise you just get caught up in what content do I post next, but the content has to be for that specific business model. I think a lot of people are missing that. It’s like social first, but you need a business model first, and you just tapped into a really important order of operation that most

David Ralph [14:22]
people miss. Because my content other than the podcast, I think if I go back over the podcast, it’s genuinely quality is as it’s as good as I can do. Okay, which I’m happy with. But when I look at all the other stuff, I was lobbing out to the world, it was crap, basically, you know, the stuff on Instagram and the stuff on YouTube, because I didn’t have the bandwidth to do it. It was so it was just rubbish. And that’s one of the things that I would reference to the listeners. But if it’s not the best you can possibly do at that time. Don’t bother doing it because he There’s no point you just focus in on what you do the best focus in on your strengths, which obviously is a perfect segue to you. But that’s true, isn’t it? Lisa?

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [15:11]
It is and focusing on the things that bring you energy and the things that you think are fun. Because those if they’re, of course leading to the revenue of the business in some way, then you’re going to want to keep doing them. But if you need to be on Instagram and tick tock and clubhouse, because that’s what you do. But you actually don’t have a strategy for them and they don’t relate to your business and you’re just doing it because you have to be on every channel. It’s just going to lead you to becoming stressed out I

David Ralph [15:42]
want to give up while I was clubhouse never had a clubhouse. What’s this?

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [15:50]
You know, the latest and greatest social media. So this, it will make it the episode not evergreen, because in hopefully it won’t die out. But in three years, it’ll be the next thing.

David Ralph [15:59]
Is it like? Do you remember periscope? Yeah, that

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [16:03]
one did die quickly. didn’t

David Ralph [16:05]
date they did. And I think that’s the last time I ever looked at something and thought, Oh, I’m gonna jump on that. Because by the time I went to jump, it’s gone. And I thought, I can’t be bothered about this anymore.

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [16:16]
Well, this actually gets to your ego question because, or your your ego topic, or maybe even the questioning of strengths and where you’re aligning to things. So I love the medium of audio, you love the medium of audio. And then a social media network like clubhouse pops up. And it’s only audio, it’s social media audio, that sounds so perfect. And then the poll begins where you’re like, Oh, I want to try that out. Oh, am I like that, oh, that could be the thing. But then the angel and the devil on the shoulder. The other one is saying, look, come on. Why are you gonna go out there and spend 10 hours a day, you don’t have time for this? You’re trying to be better at prioritising and getting really focused this year, don’t even go there. So it’s the this side and that side and which one to do.

David Ralph [17:04]
Let’s talk about the strengths. And let’s talk about your personal strengths. Because the last time you was on the show, it was about the strengths of the listeners. But I I’m interested with you coming on here in a second time. Have have your strengths changed? Have you developed them? Are you so busy helping other people but actually yours are getting a little bit flabby? Because we can do that quite easily Can’t we we can be focused on the other person and we think I haven’t done this myself. I should do this really?

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [17:34]
We sure can. I love that the strength getting flabby. I’m going to borrow that and attributed to you. So yeah, and in Clifton strengths language, which also by the way is Strengths Finder. A lot of people still call it Strengths Finder from the book Strengths Finder. 2.0. So in Clifton strengths language, my top five are strategic Maximizer positivity, individualization and Woo. And, sure, I mean, they develop over time and strategic is one that’s really good at prioritisation. Maximizer, is one that’s really good at making evergreen content and making something usable and getting the full potential out of it, not just a one time use. So if I take those two examples, I’m good at those things. If I tell them to show up at work for me that day, but they can also go to become I call them my troublemaker talents. Because I can also say that strategic It looks so far ahead in the future, that I can be future proofing content. And I can spend an extra four hours working on a video that could have taken me five minutes.

Outro [18:41]
Yeah, or

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [18:42]
Maximizer wants to go back through and improve nothing can. If something is subpar, and I notice it, I need any to get fixed now. But that might take me away from the number one priority of the day. So these two, I feel like they chase me around. And they they want to make me slow, like a slow high quality worker. But that’s not what I need for my business right now. So I call them a troublemaker talents, and they have to be kept in check. Because if your talents that are natural to you if they are how you think and feel and operate when you’re just at your natural default. They can be used for good, but they can also be good used to wear you out. They can also be used to annoy the heck out of someone else. Because like the movie Spinal Tap, you have the Volume Volume Down and it’s all the way up to 11 in this case, all the time instead of giving it the right dose for the right moment. And so, yeah, I guess the short answer to your question is, yes, I’ve developed them and continue to make them better. But yes, I’ve also let them get out of control.

David Ralph [19:45]
I love this. I love this because this this is so real. This is so because I look back at my IV strength binders 2.0. And I’m a great believer in it. I think it’s really really good. And I couldn’t remember what mine were and they were futuristic. activator belief positivity and something else a comment. Well, the last one was, and I realised that futuristic is brilliant, because I’m always like that. But wouldn’t it be great if we do that? And why don’t we go on holiday next week? Why don’t we do it. And it’s always about what we’re doing next week and stuff. And I can quite often forget, but the gift is in the now. And so over the last year, I’ve been focused very much on trying to rein my futuristic brain back to really being present and centred, and hopefully experiencing life. But it’s giving me at that time as the gift instead of being focused. So I think you’re absolutely right. And I had it dawned on me that Yeah, they can be you can use them for good. Oh, but evil. What? Oh.

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [20:50]
And I think that also, you’re bringing up an example for me about how you can put them to work. If you look at them, and you think, alright, what can I do? How can I work these in combination to do what I’m trying to accomplish right now. So for example, activator, it’s about, hey, let’s go let’s get this moving. When you said let’s go on holiday next week like that as a right now we’re planning we’re on we’re on this? Well, activator, that means it’s right now, what are we doing right now? What are we getting started, so that one could be your presence, focus. And then with futuristic, if you combine it with activator, maybe you take your futuristic and you say, yeah, your mind’s just naturally going to be oriented to the future. But if you give it the job of paying attention to the conversation you’re having with your wife, right, in this moment, it is serving your futuristic because it’s serving the long term relationship. So I’m not gonna do

David Ralph [21:47]
that mine is gonna do that really.

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [21:51]
Okay, then maybe we’ll use positivity because positivity loves to turn things into fun. It says My life is too short, we need to enjoy the moments while we’re in them. So let yourself turn up the positivity and have a good time while you’re in it. Great way to use the talent themes.

David Ralph [22:07]
It’s interesting though, because you know, when I’m deciding that I’m going to be really positive and have the most fun. I’m also aware that I’m annoying my family, because there’s not a lot of fun to be had in a household until you turn your attention on the people that are there. And they often say, Oh, that’s having he’s happier tag that’s having his moment. Let’s let’s run the cover because that’s having his moment. But um, yeah, it’s, it’s a powerful statement. Now, one of the things I want to do, I’m gonna play this speech, and then I want to come back to you, okay, here’s Rocky,

Rpcky [22:40]
who me or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward, how much you could take a keep moving forward. That’s how winning is done.

David Ralph [22:56]
Now for the people that have been on the show five years ago, and they come back with the same business, maybe pivot, pivoted, maybe changed direction, they will have had an awful lot of punches in the face in that time in its entrepreneurial life. And I’m really intrigued on what keeps you going on the path and not thinking, Oh, I’ll get a job in Starbucks instead. Or I go back to my old job. Why do you want to continue with what you’re doing? Lisa?

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [23:30]
offer me since I started a business, what I love the most about it is the time freedom, that I get to choose how I’m going to spend my time and even when I was spending my time as the Chicka chicka, click click boom gal, I still could look at myself very easily and say I’m creating this the crappy boss that is asking me to work as long as me. And I love the accountability of that. I love that I went to the gym at 11 o’clock in the afternoon yesterday. And I didn’t have to do it at four or 5am, like I did in corporate and we’re just to pull off a day. So that’s a real motivator for me. And it makes me think, Oh, I would never want to give that up. So I want to do everything I can to preserve it. And I think this is a great application for strengths too. Because I could look at it and say, Okay, if if a customer punched me in the face, although I have great customers, they don’t punch me in the face. But if they did the rocky thing, and they took me down, how do I get back up? Well, individualization is one of my top five, which means I like to get to know every person and what makes them tick. And so instead of me getting down about getting hit, that’s the one I could turn up to say, Well, let me just really understand their position where they’re coming from so that I’m not taking it personally. I’m just really understanding their position. Your belief could be the one where when you get knocked down it is saying, Why am I doing all of this what is my greater picture what’s the greater cause and getting connected even spiritually to why you’re in it so that you stand back up The person who has analytical might even do a pivot table and excel in order to run some comparisons to get some data about these trends about how they pick themselves up best, over the over the years of getting knocked out. So everybody does it a little differently. But that’s what I love about strengths is using this approach, it allows you to do use the tools that feel really good to you.

David Ralph [25:24]
When I started my podcast, there was a guy, and I’m not sure he’s really doing any more called to remember Michael O’Neill from the European URL. Do you remember him?

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [25:32]
Yeah, of course, I sure do.

David Ralph [25:34]
Now, I went over to his show, but I was obsessed with the show. And it was the first podcast I ever appeared on. And episode eight, about 16 minutes in, I sent him a sound clip, which he played on the show. And it was basically me sort of trying to encourage myself that I could be a podcast when I might give it a go. And so it was a it was a wheel gumbos magic feather time. But I remember him saying that, he realised that he was swimming in the pool at two o’clock in the afternoon, right Tony Soprano. And he realised that the first part of his life was over, where we’d actually moved so far away from corporate life, he could never go back to being at eight o’clock, and leaving at five o’clock and being trapped. And what you said about time, freedom that is so powerful in every area, and I would never lose it. But what I realised as well was because I had the time freedom. I didn’t know what to do with it, it because everybody else was either at work or at school or me mates were at work. And I was just on my own all the time. So I just carried on working. So I went from doing 40 hours a week to 100 hours a week, even though I didn’t have to because I didn’t know what to build up the time with I had nothing other than creating my business, does that have sort of resonance as well, but you lose track of your passions and your desires away from the business because the business overtakes you over.

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [27:03]
Yeah, it’s interesting. And when you are passionate about your business, where you like what you’re doing, it’s really easy to let it flow over into all of those hours. So yeah, I can really resonate with that. And I even did it last night. So I came back from the gym, I was working until I think it was about seven o’clock last night. And I thought, Oh, it’s starting to be that time of night where I’m a little too tired to want to do all of the things with playing drums and writing songs that I was thinking earlier in the day, I wanted to do with my time That evening, and then I want to get off screens. So I don’t want to stick that earlier in the day. Because then if I’m at 9pm trying to finish up my work, I don’t want to mess with glue, I don’t want to mess up my sleep. So it is really interesting. You have to think about your time very differently. And especially if you like what you’re doing. In everything in your life, you have many things that you like you can still be too full of things that you enjoy. And it’s really easy to to lose sight and not prioritise and not make room. For some of those. I also think there’s a procrastination element. I don’t know what this is. This is where you can be in a cycle analysis mode here. What do you think causes the filling the time thing, you mentioned that phrase and it made me think of how sometimes when I try to open up space, in my mind, I say I want more white space, it makes me feel more creative. Then I notice wind when I have white space, like I’m getting ready in the morning, I must feel it by listening to podcasts. I can’t just be there with space. And I think that’s actually bad for creativity. Or at least that’s my current conclusion. It’s bad for creativity. But I haven’t yet kicked the addiction to filling the space with something learning or podcast listening, and just just have a moment to be

David Ralph [28:53]
Yeah, I’ve read a book by a guy called Eckhart Tolly. Alright, called the power of now. And it was just when we went into lockdown the first time last year, and the weather was gorgeous. It was lovely time to be trapped in the house when the dwelled was suddenly stopped. And I’d get up early in the morning and I’d sit out in the garden. And I could see the sun coming up over the fence panels to the next door’s garden and the house and you knew it was going to be a gorgeous warm day. And I kept on reading this book, but I also kept on just putting it down and watching ads. And just like looking at things it was like I had all the time in the world. And I realised that there’s enough going on to fill it up with something else. You know, I don’t need to actually plug something in my ears and listen to podcasts. I hardly ever listen to podcasts. I don’t need to, you know, do anything other than just sit and be aware and just enjoy life, you know. And so it was a real simplicity that came over me and it was the benefit The old 2020 for me, I think that you don’t need to turn the TV on. You don’t need to turn the radio on in the kitchen when you’re making the breakfast you can just be and be perfectly happy with that. And the more I do that, the more it’s like spider senses are more aware once again of the great things about this world offering us just even little city beanbag bumblebees floating around and butterflies and stuff, which I never really bothered watching, I now will take a moment and watch them doing their thing because I’ve got the time and the rain capacity to allow it to happen. Does that make sense? So does that sound I’ve just had a breakdown?

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [30:39]
No, it sounds beautiful. It actually is making me think about as you were talking about the bumblebees and the butterflies, I was thinking about how, when I’m out on a hike, I do notice all those things. And I’ll I’ll hit my husband and be like, Oh my gosh, look at that, look at that. But then you wouldn’t be in your own garden going, Oh, look at that. Look at that, but you show it. And the the idea of always filling the time versus just letting it be there’s an infinite amount of stuff that we could fill it with. So I could always listen to another podcast, I could always turn on more news. And it’s interesting when you get another. Another stimulus. Like for example, one of the things I noticed no matter what gym I go to, they love having on a radio and a TV and another one, they have three sound sources all at once it kind of scrambles my head. And I don’t watch TV. And it’s the only time I ever get exposed to what the current news is. And I see it I just instantly feel the stress about how they’re presenting the world. And I think Well, I’ve created my own bubble, I live on 30 acres in the middle of the woods, and with no one telling me what life is. So I’m creating it until I walk into that little microcosm, and I watch the news and I go, oh, now they’re telling me this is what the world is. And it really changes your view. So I get this keen awareness of how susceptible you are to the things you allow yourself to be exposed to, and what you just said about the intuition and how it you start to be able to tune in what you were otherwise tuning out or blocking out. I think that’s really key I’m going to I’m going to take away from this show that as my driver to allow myself to stop feeding inputs in because maybe the input is the beauty of nature, maybe the input is the creativity and the mind that can flow once you give us some space to relax, and thanks. So thank you for that. I think it’s beautiful.

David Ralph [32:30]
No, it’s a powerful way to be and because one of the things as well with it all was I I I became aware that I was overthinking is the only way that I can describe it, that my brain was always thinking about something. And most of the time it was business or sales funnels or whatever, I didn’t have any time to just be quiet. So even when I was resting, I was still working in my head. And that took me months to actually slow down on to the point now that sometimes I think I’m not even thinking, you know, it’s just like a black hole we’re going on. But suddenly the good ideas come flying in. And I think oh, yeah, I should do that. Which I don’t think I had before. I was too busy thinking of stuff, where I wasn’t allowing the subconscious to actually work it out on me. You know, it’s like Einstein used to do, he couldn’t solve something, he’d walk away and play the violin. And he’d come back two or three hours later with the answer because he allowed us to separate ourselves from the business.

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [33:33]
Mm hmm. You know, it’s interesting, what you’re making me think of, with your futuristic talent being number one, it’s categorised as a thinking theme. And I could see that one, it’s acting as your troublemaker talent, it’s always like, we have to get ahead, we have to keep we have to keep going, keep going, keep going. Because I see all of these things coming on the horizon. And in order to hit this goal, you need to hit this one, and you need to get this and go. And it can be the monkey mind that will not stop. But if now you’ve tapped into another way to honour the talent by saying, hey, look, I also realised if I don’t get my mind as many inputs, it will think of the brilliant things that will build a future life that I actually want more. Now you’ve seen the other side. So you have to the devil and the angel on your shoulder have different ways you could apply the futuristic theme. So it’s cool that you’ve been able to see the new way, because it probably feels a lot better to your soul and your body than the one that was like let’s go Let’s go. Let’s go. We’re always behind.

David Ralph [34:35]
Yeah, it does. And as you were talking about walking in nature, you know, I think there’s not a person on this earth that doesn’t feel better. Walking through some woods or walking across the meadow. I just can’t fathom how you don’t feel good with that. And more often than not, we don’t do it, but we know that it makes us feel good. And it doesn’t take a lot to make ourselves feel really good bye. Thinking away from a computer away from a tablet away from whatever. It’s just, it’s there already to make us feel good, where we only have to sit by a river and put our hands in and build a stream going past its bare ready to recharge us. But we just kind of ignore it. And I think I ignored it for years. There’s a place near me Lee so called Hadley castle. And Henry the Eighth, used to have it as he’s kind of out of London place. And it’s a bit of a relic, but it’s right up on a mountain. And you can see over the River Thames and you can sort of see all the distance, it’s about five minute walk from my house. And I’ve always said that when I die, I want to be scattered there. Because when I go up there, I’ve always been happy. When I was a kid, we used to go there. And my mum and dad didn’t take as many places. But I used to take us to Hadley council because it was free. And we would fly a kite and we kick up well around. And then I used to take my kids when they were little. And it’s just a freedom. And it gives you that ability to look at the horizon and being if I went there, where would I go is like the adventure point of life. But you can go in any direction and see something incredible. And I know it’s great for me. I don’t go there very often. You know, I should go there because it lights me up.

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [36:22]
Yeah. Why do you think you don’t?

David Ralph [36:25]
I don’t know. Well, I do know now I say that? I think it’s you don’t go to Disneyland if Disneyland’s next door to you, you know, it’s coming to too close to you. But when relatives come, you go, Oh, I take them to Hadley castle. And if people come along, you can’t do that. But actually, do it yourself. You don’t. And I don’t know why you don’t plug yourself into your happy spot more often.

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [36:54]
Yeah, that’s a key life learning, it seems I mean, five minutes away, you could take 10 minutes of your day to walk there and back. And all you do is look out at the river, take in your deep breath and turn back around and you’ve had something inspiring for the day and it took 10 minutes, it might be the warm up to your day, or ask yourself to do it twice a week or every day to the 10 minute recharge moment. Sounds like a beautiful thing right there. Or even the garden, I know you’ve always been into your garden and you have it right in your backyard, it would take 30 seconds to step into the garden, sucking some air and look for that butterfly or those ants. And even that is a tool that do you use that every day?

David Ralph [37:35]
Yeah, I do. And one of the things I’ve realised, and I saw this on a YouTube video, and this guy was talking about connecting with Earth, and he said, Have you ever do you remember that thing in pretty woman when she made him take his shoes and socks off and walk around on the grass? Do you remember that in the field?

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [37:52]
Yes. Yeah, and

David Ralph [37:56]
what about you the grounding thing, and I remember that film I didn’t understand, it just seemed daft walking around with your shoes and socks off. But there is that connection with the ground, once again, kind of charges you up. I’m kind of wondering whether we’ve got a big battery outside, which is a nature’s battery. But we can literally tap in so we can stand out there in the sun. And feel better. We know that the sun’s better. But we can take the energy from the ground as well. It’s, you know, I’m just speaking off the top of my head, knowing how I feel. But I’m starting to wonder whether we’ve already got our recharge point lined up for us if we just have to use it.

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [38:38]
Hmm, well, first, I also have to acknowledge this is making me think of your belief, talent. It’s tapping into something bigger, you know, and it was really good to be able to do that naturally. And then the next thing that it made me think of as Yeah, why don’t we try these things? I’ve heard of grounding? And how often do I walk around on the grass and my bare feet? Well, not that often. Well, why not? I don’t know. I’m not even sure why it’s a tool that might be right under my nose. And it’s free, and it’s fast. And why not just go run some 32nd experiments or 10 minute experiments each day. That sounds like a great way to decompress and take a stress break.

David Ralph [39:23]
It’s interesting, you talk about belief that there’s a lot of reflection in this conversation. It’s a totally different conversation than I expected to have. But we believe I I struggle with that as well. Because I’m quite willing to go all in on something. I see something. And I go, yes, that’s the future. Yes, I’m going to do that. And then that’s it. I’ve just got all the willpower in the world and I will cut out beings and I will just totally believe it’s right. And then I see something that you can always find a contra opinion to everything. And that comes along and I go Ah yes, that’s right. That’s right. I’ve been I saw a switch again. So I’m always passionate about something always focus on something that I’ve seen that I think it’s going to be a benefit. And unlike YouTube, I watch quite a bit of YouTube. I don’t really like watching TV, but I like YouTube, because it’s like 10 minutes, and you’re done. And there’s a lot of I did this in 30 days, I cut out this and you know, I was doing cold showers and I was doing all these things that I’d seen on YouTube, because he just, I’d watch it and I go, yes, that’s it. That’s it, but belief and take you down some weird avenues again, can it can take you away from what you should be doing, because all you’re doing is, is jumping on the next thing, I suppose.

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [40:40]
Yeah, this is a great lesson that I’ve been pulling from strengths. And both for myself and for my clients is looking at some of the threads of each of these talents and where they could take you. So that’s one area where you could just go full bore and to the hormetic stressors of cold showers or whatever thing if they could take you all over the place. But the other side of belief is seeking a spiritual connection. And the other side of belief is, are you aligned with your values, and I think those you are strongly connected with and those are not so changing. And maybe that’s what makes some of the stuff stick or not stick with you is if someone’s running against your values, and they would actually insult your values and your thinking that’s not a good person, or they don’t have the integrity that I would expect. Your belief might not even allow you to work with that person. Like I could imagine someone offering you money to do podcast coaching, and you know, you’re not aligned with their values. And you could, you could just say up front, you don’t think that you’re a good fit for them. Because your belief would allow you to do it. Whereas other people would just say I need the morning, I’m going to do it. So it’s a lot of times for our talents, it’s finding the part of them that really works for you when you turn it up.

David Ralph [41:58]
I agree with that. Totally, there was a guy that came through to me, I’ve never spoken about this on the podcast. But he came through to me, and he wants a podcast coaching. So I went through things with him. And I said, Look, this is how much I charge. And at the time, it was about 2000 for a mumps Crash Course to get them up to the level that I am after sort of seven years. So you know, it was a fair amount of money, but not not a lot. And I said to him, all you got to do is tell me on Monday, whether you want to do it. And he didn’t come back on Monday. And when he came back on Wednesday. And he said I will do it. But because he was two days late, I didn’t work with him. And my wife said to me, I’ll don’t he might have been busy. I said no. If he’s if I say Monday, it should be Monday, and he didn’t. And that was one of those things about my values about if you say you’re going to do something you do something didn’t align with he’s, and I know from experience that when you have somebody like that, it makes it difficult, because it’s already the crack in the authentic professionalism that they bring to you. It will be our can’t make Monday, can we move it to Tuesday? And can we do it? Can we do that? It’s always those tiny little things that really, if they don’t align to your values can cause you and your business a huge amount of problem. Do you agree?

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [43:18]
I agree. I’ve seen this a lot with my clients. I think it’s fascinating. There are two of the talent themes. One is belief and one is responsibility that feel so strongly toward what you’re describing. And when someone will describe a scenario like yours, there will just as equally be a handful of people in the room who are saying, really, like just move on to silver look at just to sign that client up. And you could always not do business with them later. If it turns out that that was true. And they would not even register that monday, wednesday thing. But for those who do, especially leading through belief, responsibility, etc. Those are moments where the chink in the armour is it’s deeper. And it matters more. And if you let that pass by, it would be detrimental to the relationship. So I think it’s paying attention to these things that matter to you. It’s unique to you.

David Ralph [44:13]
And Join Up. Dots, Julia, I think and if you look at a picture close enough, it’s just made up of millions of dots. But if you spread out, you’ve got that clarity, so you can’t ignore the dots because the dots are the clues, aren’t you? You aren’t a strength sleuth. And you don’t just steam in and go back at it. You look at this and you look at that and you you join up the dots of their strengths.

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [44:41]
Oh, that’s, that’s so it. I had never thought of Join Up Dots as a part of intuition. But really, it’s like you’re joining up the dots by listening to the intuition of your strengths or your talents and those are telling you how to lean into the best version of you the one that you is really aligned with you really good with you really authentic to you. All those buzzwords that people say they want to be authentic. But then what does that really mean? This is a perfect example of something just that simple that you gave in that example of one guy who said Monday and then turned it in on Wednesday. And that changed everything for you. Because that’s the intuition that you know, matters to you. And it might not matter to the person next to you. But this is how you join up your personal dots. I love it so much. It’s, it’s not that every everyone has a different set of dots. And the things that you decide, actually join up, you don’t know until you tune in, and listen, what makes them all connect?

David Ralph [45:43]
Well, let’s hear from somebody who knew how to connect some dots, Steve Jobs,

Steve Jobs [45:47]
of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.

David Ralph [46:22]
Now he talked about future he talked about belief. He talked about everything that we’ve been talking about now with your own life. Lisa, is it easier to join up the dots to the first time you came on the show? Or the second time? It doesn’t say more messy leading up to the first one where you were starting your business? Are you more organised? Are the dots becoming steppingstones more than they were?

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [46:49]

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [46:51]
I don’t know if I could measure it as easy or harder. I think of it like when I came on five or six years ago, when we talked, there were fewer dots that I could see. So I was joining them up. But as I’ve progressed through the business and time, I feel like I’ve been able to zoom out more. And I realise Whoa, there are so many more dots, so much more to connect so much more to do. So like the speck of sand sort of thing, zoom out and go, wow, this is not just one grain, it’s one grain. That’s almost imperceptible, when you see how vast it is. So that’s what I feel like it’s become for me more and more and more and more and more dots. And then if you’re going to get more and more focused on the life you want to live, it can become feel a little more challenging to join up the dots because there are so many more of them to think about which leads you to need to be more strategic and prioritise. Otherwise, the data won’t go for you.

David Ralph [47:50]
I had a person on the show recently, and he’s really stuck with me this and she was talking about a to don’t list everybody has to do but actually what are you going to clear off? What are you going to say? No, that was part of my business. But it doesn’t work for me anymore, or it’s taking up too much time. Or it’s in a folder on my computer. And I haven’t looked at it for three years. Let’s just get rid of it. And I thought I too don’t missed or a dump list is a brilliant way of actually allowing the right dots to come to the fore because you can see them clearer.

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [48:28]
That is so good. I love the phrase too. I call it stop doing list but to don’t is so much more fun. It sounds like to dunk dunk. Yeah, I like that a lot. And I think that that is really overlooked by people. Because you think of all of the things that you say yes to? And sometimes you say yes, four years ago, and something now has become a habit or a part of your structure of your life. And you think wow, one small Yes, that took two seconds to add. otter has now used hundreds of hours of my life. Do I want to keep that? mitt? The answer could be yes. But it could be No, I want to stop that and put that on the to don’t list. I don’t do that any longer. I don’t take calls at 8am. I don’t book up my schedule on Mondays and Fridays for 12 hours. I don’t I don’t reply to podcast booking agents who I get 40 emails a day from who asked me to interview people and I don’t do an interview show I used to reply to every person because I felt I must. But now I just delete them because it landed on my to do list.

David Ralph [49:42]
Really, really? Well. This is a part of the show that we’ve been leading up to and this is the Sermon on the mic and this time. Instead of you choosing what age Lisa you get to speak to. You’ve got to speak to the one who turned up on the show five years ago. So if you could walk into a room and make that Lisa From 2016, what advice would you give her to get her where you are today? Well, I’m going to play the theme. And when it fades, it’s your time to talk. This is the Sermon on the mic.

Unknown Speaker [50:19]
With the best beat of the show,

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [50:26]
man. Well,

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [50:36]
hey there five years ago, Lisa, you know, this version of you is the workaholic Lisa, that persistence, that hard work, like getting it done kind of Mojo that you learned from playing sports growing up, it served you well, it served a great, new corporate, it served you great as you started your business. But you’ve hit a ceiling of capacity. And going into this new phase of life, what you need to really focus on is discernment. Learning to set boundaries, getting fully focused on priorities, worrying less, that your choices that you’re saying, you know, might disappoint someone, this next phase requires something new and big view is going to require a lot of bravery. But if you want to bust past the ceiling, and not run into those capacity issues, it’s important to let this next phase of you develop. So as I leave this Sunday sermon for you, think of that, too. Don’t list make it long, these priorities will allow you to live into the life you say you’ve always wanted to live. Don’t let those stop as a dream. Try them. Let them become real.

David Ralph [52:02]
Yeah, great stuff. So Lisa, for the audience that have been listening out there and are fascinated with developing their own strengths. What’s the number one best way that they can connect with you?

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [52:14]
Well, since you have an audience of podcast listeners, check out the podcast lead through strengths, that would be a great place to meet me come over to beat through and see what we have going on. I would love to catch up. I’m on LinkedIn as well. Feel free to connect there. It’s LinkedIn slash and slash Lisa Cummings,

David Ralph [52:33]
we’ll have all the links in the show notes to make it as easy as possible, because that’s what I do. Lisa, thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots. And please come back when you’ve got even more dots to join up another five years, where are you back on? As I believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Lisa Cummings, thank you so much.

Clifton Strengths Finder Lisa Cummings [52:55]
You are welcome. Can’t wait until next time.

David Ralph [53:00]
Lisa Cummings. So strengths. You build your strengths up as superpowers but also your strengths can destroy you. So we’re all sort of yin yang is a real balance of that, isn’t it? My futuristic I know he’s my biggest strength is what I’ve built my whole business around. But also it can take me into dark areas. Now I wasn’t expecting to have that conversation with Lisa. But there’s a deep connection between us. But I will was surprised was there again, even though last time I spoke to her was five years ago. It was like a friend has come into the room that you used to know really well. And suddenly you could just chat all night. It was a I really enjoyed it. And hopefully you got something from it, too. Until next time, but everybody out there that’s working with me. Thank you so much for anybody who wants to leave a rating review on iTunes, Join Up forward slash iTunes always appreciated. But even more appreciated is if you come back next time. Look after yourself. And I’ll see you again. Cheers. Bye bye.

Outro [54:04]
That’s the end of China. You’ve heard the conversation. Now it’s time for you to start taking massive action. Create up church and create your life is he only you live he will be back again real soon. Join Up Dots Join Up Dots Join Up Dots Join Up Dots. Joey jolina Join Up Dots.



Happiness Expert

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison Finds A Happiness Gap

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison Is Our Guest On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast

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Introducing Happiness Expert Becky Morrison

Happiness ExpertHappiness Expert Becky Morrison is todays guest joining us on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots business podcast.

She is a UC Berkeley Certified Executive Coach with a passion for helping people live happy, priority-aligned lives.

After a successful career in financial services, as a litigator and then in law firm administration, managing several hundred attorneys and staff at one of the country’s premier litigation firms, she was looking for a new challenge and transitioned to a small investment firm where she was COO.

This transition helped her recognize that her true passion was people, she started her own coaching practice.

Now through this process as she says “Many entrepreneurs and business leaders struggle to find happiness whilst balancing work and life.

My advice is simple, “Do more of what matters and let go of the rest”, but of course it isn’t that easy to implement.

I love to share my formula that has helped many high potential leaders overcome their happiness gaps.

The formula consists of understanding what truly matters, believing that you deserve to be happy, introducing new and healthy habits and being diligent when saying no to those distractions, pulling you away from true happiness. 

So is it possible to find true happiness and of course maintain it, or is contentment a better aim to have?

And when she started her own business was it instant happiness or like most of us, it took a while to find the smile?

So lets bring him onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Becky Morrison


Show Highlights

During the show we discussed such deep subjects with Becky Morrison such as:

Why happiness is not being up all the time, but it is being aware of the emotions that you are feeling at that time.

Why everybody should focus more on their to dont list, instead of going for the to do list every single time. 

How to reframe things to find the positives in your life even if its something like paying bills and taxes.

and lastly……

Why knowing and understanding the seasons of life and business and being aware of the changes will happen.


How To Connect With Becky Morrison





Return To The Top Of 

If you enjoyed this episode with Mindset Expert Christopher Dedeyan, why not check out other inspirational chat with Perry Marshall, Thomas Smallwood,  Tosca Reno and the amazing When was the last time you laughed

You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here– enjoy



Full Transcription Of Happiness Expert Beck Morrison Interview

Intro [0:00]
Life shouldn’t be hard life should be a fun filled adventure every day. So now start joining up dots tap into your talents, your skills, your God given gifts and tell your boss, you don’t deserve me. I’m out of here. It’s time for you to smash that alarm clock and start getting the dream business and life you will of course, are dreaming God. Let’s join your host, David Ralph from the back of his garden in the UK, or wherever he might be today with another jam packed episode of the number one hit podcast. Join Up Dots.

David Ralph [0:42]
Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. And good morning again and welcome to Join Up Dots. It’s a complete delight to have you here. Thank you so much for bringing it sexy little ears and your body to the show. And I particularly like the people that are sitting at work secretly listening when they should be typing, looking over their laptops, making sure that boss isn’t come. They’re the ones I want to inspire to to free yourself from those shackles and move away from that boss and start things that just make you happy. Now today’s guest joining us on the show is certainly somebody who’s just done that. She is a UC Berkeley certified executive coach with a passion for helping people live happy priority aligned lives now after a successful career in financial services as a litigator, and then in law firm administration managing several 100 attorneys and staff are one of the country’s premier litigation firms. Oh, it sounds dreadful. But that’s not for me at all. She was looking for a new challenge. Ah, it wasn’t for her either. And transition to a small investment firm where she was see Oh, now this transition helped her recognise that her true passion was people and she started her own coaching practice. Now, through this process, as she says many entrepreneurs and business leaders struggle to find happiness whilst balancing work and life. And my advice is simple. She says, do more of what matters and let go of the rest. But of course, it isn’t that easy to implement. I love to share a formula that has helped many 100 potential leaders overcome their happiness gaps. And this formula consists of understanding what truly matters, believing that you deserve to be happy, introducing new unhealthy habits and being diligent when saying no to these distractions, pulling you away from true happiness. So is it is it possible to find true happiness? And of course maintain it, always contentment, a better aim to have? And once you started your own business, was it instant happiness? Or like most of us, did it take a while to find the smile? See why I did that. So let’s bring him onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Becky Morrison

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [2:51]
Great, David, how are you?

David Ralph [2:53]
I’m very well I’m very well Becky. I feel like I’ve recorded this episode 15 times now. It’s been it’s been a bit of an epic to get to this point. But we’re here. And that’s what entrepreneurial life is about, isn’t it getting these obstacles thrown at us? And and just breezing past I think I think I might have been making those errors occur, Becky?

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [3:14]
I mean, it’s all right. We’re here. Now. That’s what matters.

David Ralph [3:17]
We are here. We’re together, we could almost touch. He wouldn’t want that. Now you are in you’re in snowy lanes, you are just outside Washington DC. Is it all calm in America at the moment? You’ve had a few rough years of what things going on? Is it all quiet there when you lift your word windows open?

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [3:38]
I mean, it’s quiet where I am in suburban Northern Virginia. But I’m not sure that we could say as a nation, things are quiet yet.

David Ralph [3:46]
The world is quiet about when it really is. There’s lots of weird stuff going on. But it’s kind of it’s bringing quietness into our life somehow.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [3:54]
That is true on an individual level. This is a time like no other where we have been asked or really forced to slow down. Yeah, it’s it’s kind of crazy.

David Ralph [4:04]
And have you slowed down? Or have you fought against it? Because so many people out there have said, Oh, no, it’s been terrible. It’s been terrible, you know, being forced to work from home, even though I would have sat down in the pub with them. And I’d be so lucky to be working from home. Now. It’s kind of forced on them. They don’t feel that way, as it’s been okay for you.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [4:23]
Yeah, I mean, well, I’ve been working at home for the past five years. So this was not a huge change in that regard to me. There are elements, of course that were different. I feel like I don’t know that I’ve slowed down. But there are certainly aspects of my life that have slowed down and I’ve really tried to appreciate as opposed to resent that.

David Ralph [4:43]
Yeah, I’ve got simplicity in my life where I don’t think I had I think there was a lot of baggage I was carrying around. And when I was forced to stop, I didn’t have much to do really, other than work on my garden and kind of clear the deck somehow it was a real It was a we’ll pose, or the next stage of what I’m doing.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [5:04]
Yeah, I agree. I mean, I’ve got two two kids 113 117, who had a full kind of activity and sports schedule, in addition to their school lives that all went away. And, you know, for the first time, in probably 10 years, we had weekends free. And that has been a huge shift as a family took a minute for us to settle into. But now we’ve really appreciated the time together. And we have had a lot of fun together in ways that we weren’t doing previously. So it’s been interesting.

David Ralph [5:34]
Yeah, he certainly has, and I don’t want to go back to dance lessons on a Wednesday and a Monday and, and all that kind of stuff. I think I say to my daughter, she doesn’t watch the news. I think I’m just gonna tell her that it’s still going on until she’s like, 32.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [5:48]
Yeah, I hear Yeah, we’re just starting things here where, you know, we’ve got my my older daughter’s soccer practice three days a week, and I’m like, What is this nonsense? I liked it better when we had nothing. But yeah, she’s enjoying herself, and she can drive herself. So that’s a whole different story.

David Ralph [6:02]
Now, let’s get on that to you. Because I’m gonna I’m gonna push you hard Becky Morrison in this regard. Because happiness, the happiness gap, I am very aware of of happiness, because I work for myself. And so I’ve got the life at so many people go, that’s amazing. And there’s some days, it doesn’t feel amazing. And some days It feels really amazing. And at the moment talking to you, it’s probably a 9.5, pushing towards 10. And then other times, it’s a free now, is happiness too high to aim for? Because you can’t maintain it? Can you you can’t keep it up?

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [6:39]
Well, let me tell you first I think about happiness. So to me, happiness isn’t just about being up all the time, happiness is about being able to more easily navigate the challenging stuff that comes. So it’s about knowing, for example, when life is a three, why it’s a three, what’s going on. And what you can do that is within your control to shift it, and then how to manage the emotions that come with it being a three. So maybe I think about happiness a little bit differently than than you do. But it’s not about this, you know, being at a 10 is the only way to be happy, you can be happy and be struggling, you can be happy and sad. You can be happy, and in the middle of a really challenging time in your business or life. And I think it’s about how we think about happiness, and then how we really get to know the pieces of life that make us happy. So that’s my answer for you on that one.

David Ralph [7:34]
I’m trying to struggle with that answer. And I’m looking at the happiness and say, I do know, in classic Yin Yang, you can’t have happiness without the sadness. You can’t have night without the days. So unless you have sadness, you can’t actually appreciate or understand that you’ve moved into happiness. I can understand that. But how can you not you can be happy when you’re sad. And when you’re sad, and you’re happy? I don’t get that.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [8:01]
I bet you do get it. You just don’t want to get it. I think you know, you can think of I mean, I really do. I bet you’ve been I bet you I bet you have been both. You can think of a challenging moment, I’m sure in your lives, and I bet your listeners can to where things were really hard. And there were a lot of really difficult emotions, maybe you’d suffered a great loss either a personal loss, a professional loss, and something came along. And all of a sudden, there’s a little bit of a smile creeping in that moment, you were happy, and you were sad. You’re a complicated human being with a really powerful brain and nervous system, who can look at the world and appreciate more than one thing about it, right? That’s what I mean by being happy and sad. At the same time.

David Ralph [8:44]
I think I’m more simple than you give me credit. I don’t think there’s a complicated side to me. So. So let’s throw it to the other sort of side. And this is something that I did a podcast episode on recently. So it intrigued me this thing about balancing work and life. Because I come to it from the point of view now that if it’s work, it’s your life. It’s it may not be the thing that you really want to do all the time, but it’s still your life. You’re waking up each morning breathing going through the day. And I don’t see how you can balance work and life. It seems like something that people strive for. But it’s not doable, is it? You can’t You can’t balance your life when your life is your life and work is your life as well.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [9:34]
Yeah, I mean, I let me let me let me start my answer to this one with a story if that’s okay.

David Ralph [9:41]
As a podcast, it means that you’re feeling the time and I’m not so you, you go through your

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [9:45]
friend. Okay, so So this for this story, we have to rewind about 15 years from today. I’ve got a toddler, my daughter under the age of two, and I’m a litigator at a very large law firm. In the midst of a big antitrust case, and we are preparing for trial, and we have my role on the team is to help prepare our experts. And on this particular, I think it was a Tuesday, it might have been a Wednesday, but let’s use Tuesday on this particular Tuesday, my husband who at the time worked in counterterrorism, got stuck at work because something in the world had blown up, literally, something had blown up. And it was his job to figure that out. And so we had already previously agreed that when push came to shove, his mission of keeping the world safe was more important than my mission of allowing large companies to merge. So he’s at work. I’m at home with our toddler eight o’clock at night, and I am sitting on the floor of the bathroom. I have my notebook perched on the close toilet seat cover, I’ve got the expert reports spread out on the bathroom floor, I’ve got the cordless phone, because bear in mind, this again, was 15 years ago before wireless headsets clipped to the back of my pants with earphones in. And I’m trying to bathe my toddler in the bath. And I had two thoughts in very quick succession. The first thought was, I am a superstar. Look at this talk about balancing work and life. I’m doing it all this is what it looks like, right? Like I’m a mom, I’m a practising attorney, I’m killing it at work. I’m here at home, like I’m winning. And then very quickly afterwards had the thought of this is unsustainable. I cannot operate like this forever, something has to give. And that was the beginning of my journey to figure out what it was that really made my happiness tick. And so I’m going to twist your question a little bit and say that for me, it’s not so much about balance, or work life balance, it’s about really getting in touch with the essence of what gives you joy, and trying to incorporate more of that into your work and into your life. So that you can live kind of happier overall,

David Ralph [12:05]
I would have allowed the kid become dirty. That’s what I would have done. I would have thought out debt. Let’s forget about bath time. And bath time is one of those things. If anyone’s a parent, you’re either doing your backing because you don’t want the baby to drown. Or the baby is just splashing water is stressful in the bath time is not is not a pleasant experience at any time.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [12:28]
Yeah, I mean, she was old enough, she was approaching two years old. Right? So she was old enough where it was a little bit less of that like backbreaking please don’t drown stuff. And more of the splashing squealing Hey, don’t be too loud. I’m trying to have a work call moment. Yeah.

David Ralph [12:44]
So So how do you balance that? How do you balance those situations? Do you just do like I would, and I’m very aware, but I, I’m a man, I’m a man, and I have mains thoughts on this. But with me, I would have just dropped the baton, I would have thought that, you know, she can go a bit. He should wake up the next morning. She won’t die from being unclean going to bed. But my wife would have a totally different opinion where she would try to do everything. Can you balance that? Or is it just a case of like i would i would jettison certain things and think to myself, but is more important. I forget that?

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [13:24]
Well, I mean, ultimately, yeah, I think you know, when we talk about the formula for maximum happiness, part of it is letting the rest go. Right. So yeah, it might have been a little easier if I had said, so what we’re going to bed dirty, not a big deal that didn’t even occur to me in that moment. Because I was just on the list of things I had to get done. And I was very much living in a world where I had been on this path of achievement of you know, get the good grades, go to the good school, get the good job, do the work, get recognised, you know, do the assignment do it well, and not really stopping to think about a did it. make me happy? Did I want to do those things and be? What could I let go of to make it more manageable? Like, you’re right. Does my kid actually need a bath tonight? Probably she would have been just fine. But it was what we did. It was the routine. And I was so in the should of the routine that I didn’t even stop to have that inquiry.

David Ralph [14:23]
I’m going to say to my wife tonight, let’s go to bed and be dirty. Do you think she should go for

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [14:28]
that? I mean, I don’t know. I don’t know your wife. And I don’t know how she could there’s a number of ways you could interpret that statement.

David Ralph [14:35]
I think we can go with a No, I think I think that that’s potentially where we’re going to get with it. Now, with this being the base jettison thing, because once again, I did a podcast recently and what I’m doing going over all the episodes of Join Up Dots to give my listeners The Steps to Success guide. And one of the things I’ve been doing by listening really intently to the podcast interviews is noticing a pattern. Where people who get great success, create anti goals. Now most people create a goal where they’re moving towards something. But very few people create goals where they’re leaving stuff behind, and looking at things that actually don’t fulfil their purpose anymore. aren’t part of the routine, even though it’s been the bath night routine every night, we can actually sort of leave this behind. Is this a way forward as well? Is this something that I’ve tapped into, which is, you know, true success driven? By creating things to let go? You’re actually allowing more space to bring the success to you?

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [15:39]
Yeah, I absolutely think so. I mean, often with my clients, we will, you know, especially with clients who are feeling time pressure or overwhelm, or like, they’re just, you know, have too much going on. We focus less on their to do list and more on their to don’t list, right, like, the things that they don’t want to do the things that are not important right now, the things that they can let go of, and it, it’s interesting, because we don’t take the time very often as busy professionals, and frankly, just as people to slow down and say, okay, given this place I am in my life right now, given what I know about what makes me happy and makes me tick. And given what I know about my priorities and where I want to go from here. What can I let go of? We just don’t engage in that inquiry. So yeah, I think you’re absolutely right to observe that that is an important factor for continued success.

David Ralph [16:34]
As you know, do you know when you said that phrase, the to don’t list? I winced, I should have had that I should have trademark that. That should have been there. Because that is perfect. Isn’t it a to do list and the to don’t list?

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [16:47]
Yep. And actually, I mean, it’s funny because people get a little twitchy when they’re when you know, they come in, they think, well, I’m working with this coach, and you’re going to help me get a handle on my to do list. And I’m like, we’re not even going to talk about your to do list, we’re going to talk about what you’re not going to do. And it’s like, why would I spend energy thinking about that, but you’ve hit the nail on the head, I’d spend energy thinking about that, because it creates space in my life, when I can move things to that to don’t list which I mean, we can race each other and see who trademarks at first,

David Ralph [17:15]
well, I’m already done it, I’ve been typing, you know, I let you talk a little bit longer, and it’s banged on. Now, I used to work in corporate land. And one of the things that used to really wind me up is time management experts that used to come in. And they used to say, right, direct quadrant ABCD, put your first most priority ones in a and then B events. And I say oh, by the time I’ve done all that I want to get anything done. Now this but to don’t list has never been mentioned to me ever by any corporate person. They never look at actually what you don’t need to do, and certainly in corporate land, and it applies to entreprenuer land as well, there. And I’m going to praise it from entrepreneur name, because it’s where I am at the moment. But when you’re building a business, you are doing things like simple things like PDF files, and you’re doing sales panels, and you’re doing websites and stuff. And over a period of time, you have an awful lot of crap, basically sitting around you on desktops and files and on Google Drive, which very few people go through and get rid of, because they think they might need it. And one of the things that I did in lockdown, I looked at it and sorted all my files by the last time I’d modified it. So last time, I knew that I’d gone into it, and just deleted them. I didn’t even go in there and look at it. And it allows for a lightness, which brings about happiness. I think people lose the happiness because they feel that they’re not playing anymore. It’s kind of wrapping its tentacles around them and squeezing. Is that something that you’ve thought of as well of actually getting rid of stuff that’s naturally formed around you, Becky, as you’ve been building your business?

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [19:05]
It’s something that’s on my mind. I mean, you’re talking to somebody who is like a productivity systems, maybe I should say a recovering productivity systems junkie, right, like, all the way back to sort of Franklin Covey planners and the seven habits and getting things done. And there’s some good stuff in those systems. But the part that was always missing for me is this part that we’ve been talking about. It’s Have you really done an inquiry. It’s not about just organising all this stuff in your life. And I mean, when I say stuff, I don’t mean things per se, but I mean the time commitments and the files and the emails, it’s not just about organising those things, but it’s about figuring out, filtering out the things that matter and then really, truly being able, as you just described, to let go of the things that clearly aren’t meaningful. I mean, when you look at you know, organisational advice for managing your closet, it says just what you’ve done, which is do some things so you can figure out what you wear and it If you haven’t touched it in a year, get rid of it. The same thing could apply to your files, the same thing could apply to your projects, the same thing could apply to a lot of things in your life. But I want to bring, I mean, my goal is to bring a level of thoughtfulness to how I’m spending my time, energy and resources so that I can as much as possible, put those things towards the things that are meaningful to my happiness.

David Ralph [20:28]
I thought you were gonna carry on there. Well, yeah, that was it. That was it. I’m gonna jump in with Jim Carrey.

Jim Carrey [20:33]
yeMy father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.

David Ralph [21:00]
Now, with happiness, as I say, happiness is kind of an extreme. And love is like an extreme as well. So with your business that you have created, I’m very interested because he says go for the love. And I go, yeah, I totally agree with you, Mr. Curry, I totally agree with you. But I also think, and I’ve mentioned this loads of times recently, because he’s on the forefront of my mind. But once something has become less lovely, it becomes normal, you can aim to forget that you loved it in the first place, and it just becomes a job. You know, the utopia of working at home in your pyjamas was great for the first two months for people. And now they think, Oh, I can’t wait to get back into the office. I don’t love this as much as I thought I would.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [21:48]
I mean, I think that’s right. But here, here’s, I really want to I’m my goal, David is for us to leave this episode with you not thinking that happiness is an extreme. It’s not going to happen. I don’t. I mean, maybe it’s not, but I don’t think it is right happiness is for every day and happiness is for right now. And happiness is something you can incorporate more of. And I’ll give you an example. You may it may be a tongue in cheek kind of comment about your at a 9.5. Because we’re sitting here having that conversation. And I think, you know, some of that might have been funny, but I bet there’s truth in that. I bet one of the things that you really, really enjoy doing is connecting with people and having these kinds of conversations, right?

David Ralph [22:30]
Yes, funnily enough on a podcast, I don’t like it in real life. I that’s fine. Yeah, I love doing this. Because I don’t know why I actually did. This is something I’ve not thought of. But in real life situation, I tell you, I’ve just worked out what it is. It’s just dawned on me. This is a proper conversation. But in real life, you have kind of little talk instead of deep talk, don’t you? And I don’t fall into the little talk as easy. So I love connecting like this. Yeah, but not in real life.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [23:00]
Okay, so we have just learned that part of David’s happiness is deep connection.

David Ralph [23:07]
Right? Yep. You and you have learned that?

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [23:10]
Yeah. And so just taking this as a very micro example, right? If you came to me, and you were a coaching client, and you were like, I’m just feeling stressed and overwhelmed, and I’m not having fun, and I’m not happy. I would say, Well, David, we know that you love deep connection. So let’s talk about three ways you can have deep connection in the next week.

David Ralph [23:29]
Yeah, but it’s not that easy, Becky, that, that that’s on my scale of happiness again, as in, okay, I can do those things. And I can be happy when I’m doing that. But there’s a lot of other stuff that goes on behind the scenes of building a business. But you can’t get rid of all of it. Can you You’ve just got to suck it up.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [23:48]
Oh, sure. Some of it, you just have to do I agree. I mean, you’re never you’re not ever going to have a world where where you are doing. Or maybe maybe this isn’t true. But I think there’s going to always going to be things like paying taxes that have to happen that aren’t aren’t going to give you joy. But some of it is reframing those things, right? remembering the connection to your purpose of the silly stuff, right. And I’ll take the paying taxes as an example. I mean, I get to pay taxes because I earned an income in my business. That is a small shift. But it’s a meaningful shift in the way that we think about the things that we have to do. And the reason it’s meaningful is because where we put our focus goes grows. And so when we can think more about the positives, about the the sources of our happiness and trying to try and tie what we are doing to that, then we can have an easier, happier time. I agree with you that it’s not going to be roses and sunshine and unicorns all day long, right? You’re going to have to build funnels, and you’re going to have to manage email lists, and you’re going to have to send invoices and maybe those are things you don’t like to do. But I don’t know I mean, I look at an invoice and I say why I’m about to get paid. I like that. Yeah, like that because of the impact it represents. And so I’m happy to spend the administrative time necessary to make that happen.

David Ralph [25:08]
Yeah, I agree with is totally and I love paying bills is really weird. You know, if a bill comes through, I’m my wife says I would leave it till next month. So now I’m gonna pay straight away. And I think I like paying it because I know I can, you know, there’s no, it’s gone out of my life thing. I don’t have to think, oh, there’s a bill waiting. It’s just I comes in pays bang, and it’s gone. So yeah, there’s a kind of weird love about playing things. But my dad’s got that as well. My dad loves paying, my dad would be quite happy to be screwed over by somebody else, then pay them when the invoice comes in, you know, it will be a weird way of operating.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [25:49]
Well, I mean, is it weird? I guess there’s a couple ways. And you said there used some language there. That’s interesting. When you describe why you like paying bills, you said because I can write. So I’m curious if what you meant there was like, it is a task that I am able to do. Or rather I actually have the money to pay this bill. And so that feels good. And I don’t need to worry about it or delay it. And regardless of the answer, right, I think just an understanding of that answer is meaningful, and it can reframe, kind of all of the things you’re doing in your day, can be reframed in that way to be connected to something that is meaningful for you.

David Ralph [26:24]
Yep, meaningful. Yes, absolutely. But happiness is one end of the scale. Come on, come on back a Come on. It’s one end of the scale. If we’ve got like suicide at one end, and happiness at the other end, you’re not gonna move that down the middle. Oh, yeah. It’s gonna be at the far end. It’s what to aim for.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [26:47]
Sure. I mean, I guess it’s one end of the scale, but I don’t, I still will fight you on the idea that we can’t find ways to incorporate happiness into most of what we do every day.

David Ralph [26:57]
I know, I don’t fight you at all. Now, I totally agree. I totally agree. But I see overall umbrella of bridging the happiness gap? I don’t think you are I think you’re creating happiness, dots or happiness, stepping stones where you you? Yeah, I’m happy for this bit and being I’m not very happy. And then I’m happy again, I think it’s, it’s more valid?

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [27:20]
Well, you haven’t even asked me this, but I want to talk about it for a second. So the way that I think about happiness gaps, let’s talk about that. So I look at So you said it early on in our conversation, that I think about the recipe for maximum happiness, as do more of what matters and less of the rest, right? Or let go of the rest. Yeah. And there’s kind of three things that get in the way of living that way for people that I see. And these are the happiness gaps that I’m talking about. So the first is what I call the authenticity Yep. And it’s, do we actually have an understanding of where our happiness comes from? And what matters to us? And are we willing to express that to the outside world. So that’s the authenticity gap. Fast forward, because we’re action driven to what I call the third gap, which is the physical energy gap. And this is where all those productivity and time management systems and the two don’t list live, it’s do we actually match our capacity, our time, energy and resources as much as possible to the things that matter to us, as opposed to all the noise that could be there. The middle gap, I call the emotional energy gap, and it’s like a bridge, right? It’s the beliefs feelings and mindset that we need to have to be able to take our authentic sense of, of what matters to us, and and really live it in a time, energy and resources way. So it’s things like how do we manage our feelings? How do we manage our nervous system? How do we manage our guilt? How do we build a new habit, all of that lives in that middle, emotional energy gap? And so I’m not sure that I’m willing to concede that it’s just a bunch of happiness dots, right. It is a fundamental shift to foundationally understanding and having the tools to live happier every day and in every moment.

David Ralph [29:11]
Becky, can I tell you something?

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [29:13]
You can

Unknown Speaker [29:15]
i think i agree with you.

David Ralph [29:18]
I want to say this, and it’s through gritted teeth. But the way you explained that, I thought, Yeah, okay. I’m like that. Yes, yes. Okay. So I, I think that I think you’ve converted me.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [29:31]
I told you I was going to and you didn’t believe me?

David Ralph [29:33]
Yeah. But I’ve got my fingers crossed. Becky. I’m lying. I’m lying. So what what interests me is the middle bridge, because one of the things that I was very aware, well, no, I wasn’t aware of at all. And then it took me over and I was I had physical and emotional burnout from overwork. And now I’m totally focused on my physical energy. And as soon as I’m starting to flag then I leave it behind. It’s almost like, it’s the most precious thing in my life, which it should be. And that is something but now I look back on it, I think to myself, that is where true happiness spreads out from that feeling of feeling good. And feeling energised and feeling positive. And all that good stuff comes from that inner trunk of your, your body and your spirit, you can’t bring success into your life unless you feel successful.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [30:28]
I think that for you that is accurate. And I think one of the challenges is that everyone has a unique happiness recipe. And that recipe evolves over the course of our lives. And so it is about actually honouring individually what it is that makes you tick. And so what you’re describing there of fate of that process of figuring that out, and then actualizing that, that is about you connecting with your happiness recipe, and it’s not an uncommon happiness recipe. I agree with you that in general, you know, physical wellness impacts all kinds of sectors of our lives, I’m not going to say that that is not a common trait. But each person has a recipe that is unique to them in the season that they are currently in. And it might change as that season evolves.

David Ralph [31:18]
Well, okay, so you’re in a season and things are just going rubbish. Now, I can now see, okay, is going rubbish, but it’s gonna change seasons do change, and some and then you’ll move into a place where you’re hitting home runs all the time, you think I’m not even swinging the bat here, it’s just just happening. It’s amazing. Now, how do you keep happy when you haven’t been through the journey, you know, I’ve gone through probably 100 seasons now. And I can see that there’s sometimes he’s gonna go my way. And sometimes it doesn’t. But for a newbie, taking a leap into the entrepreneurial world, that’s difficult, isn’t it?

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [31:58]
Um, so to me, this is the way that I like to think about it. I think about taking a leap into the entrepreneurial world or into any new chapter in your life, as launching, okay. And so if you want to launch, you need to launch from a solid platform, a grounded place a good foundation, in order to sort of achieve maximum height, right. And so, I’ll take the specific example that you gave of somebody entering the entrepreneurial journey, right, it’s really important that you’ve done the groundwork to figure out who you are, how you’re going to define your entrepreneurial success, not just how the world thinks you should define it, but how you’re going to define it. And really having a sense again, of authentically what matters to you why you’re making this choice, and what it is that you’re trying to achieve, so that you can leap and launch from that more grounded place and maybe gain more traction. So that’s a big part of the work that I do is helping people get landed, get grounded before they’re trying to sort of take a new big step, whether it’s a new step of leadership, or the beginning of a new business or some other new start.

David Ralph [33:18]
Well, I don’t get about you, Becky is talking to you. I know that you are training to be a lawyer. And you know, you’re How do you find all the time? How do you find the time to coach people, look after your kids, make sure your husband’s got dinner on the table? And that’s a very sexist thing to say. But I’m gonna say anyway, how would you manage all the things because, you know, I find it quite difficult unless I separate a database and a day for that. So I’m running about four businesses myself, and I can’t let them blow into one I have to go right today is that day, and then this is bat day and so on.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [33:59]
So I mean, my answer is that I’m very clear on what this season is for me. And this season is a business building season, right? So I’m a lawyer by training. I’m already a lawyer, I’ve practised as an attorney. I’m currently in the process of getting my LLM and tax on the side. So that’s out there as a thing that I’m doing. But it is by no means the top priority. And so I’m really clear that this is a business building season and that my top priority during this season is my business. And a very close second is my family. And so I just know when push comes to shove, that’s how I’m going to allocate my time. I’m also blessed to have a partner who is very much a partner. My husband is a great dad and he is also at home full time right now. Just like I am working at home, and so we balance the life stuff more equally because he has bought into building this business being impacted. So that’s how I manage it is really just being clear on what matters most. And I mean, I can tell you, if I had a toddler today, I would let her go to bed without a bath. If that was not where I was 15 years ago, right, I’m a lot clearer on what can what can what is on my to don’t list and what can be on my to don’t list if I need more space and time.

David Ralph [35:24]
And what about your age kids because my my two last ones are just about to turn 16 and 19. And they live a real weird existence. But they’re all night. And you come down the next morning and they’ve grazed prove a kitchen and there’s like washing up and left and you think we cleaned up the night before? Where did this come from? How do you feel when you and your husband are balancing things so well, between you and your kids? Well, maybe your kids aren’t like mine will argue even if I have to pick up a tea towel and wash up a plate or something.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [35:59]
So we talk really open I mean, not surprisingly, right, this is the area that I work in. And I’ve got a book coming out that I wrote about it. And so we talk about this stuff a lot as a family. And I think they’re pretty clear on what is expected of them. I mean, are they perfect? Absolutely not. They’re teenagers, right? But I’m not cleaning up their mess they made the night before they’re gonna clean up that mess. And so we try to really kind of take accountability for our own stuff, but also take accountability for our shared stuff. I mean, we, my husband is a basketball coach. And so we talked a lot about, you know, team and togetherness and working together towards a common goal. And so we don’t allow a lot of like, well, that’s her dirty spoon, she has to put it away or whatever, you know, you take accountability for your stuff, or you take accountability for everybody’s stuff, depending on the situation,

David Ralph [36:53]
lie me in my house, we wouldn’t have a clean play, we we’d be looking, they would just be taking more and more out of the cupboard piling it up.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [37:00]
I mean, like I said, My kids are teenagers, they’re not perfect, but I feel really proud of the ways that they have stepped up. And we’ve had a number of sort of family conversations and family meetings starting early on, when we were all home together of, hey, if this is going to work, this is how this is going to need to look. And do you have thoughts about that kids? And do you have thoughts about that parents and let’s share them in an open way. I mean, you know, my son’s room doesn’t look great, but we’ve allowed that that’s a space that can be his space to manage. And we’ve set some parameters around, you know, once a week, it has to have a big clean out and he takes care of that.

David Ralph [37:37]
And does it smell really bad when you go in there in the morning? It’s It’s like he’s

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [37:41]
he’s a 13 year old boys. Something’s going

David Ralph [37:43]
something’s never overnight. I don’t know what it is. But it frightens me.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [37:50]
I mean, it is what it is, right? Like you have and that’s a great example, though of you have to sort of choose. Again, what what is on the to don’t list and what can be on the to don’t list when you need more space and time, I could spend a bunch of energy, being frustrated that there’s dirty dishes in my son’s room, or I can say, this is the boundary, we can agree on the boundary, and we can try to implement something that works for both of us.

David Ralph [38:18]
And what about when it’s just you, Becky, did you do get your own time, reclaim your own time because that was something I became aware of, but I was everything for everyone, but I wasn’t anything for myself.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [38:30]
You know, that has been a journey and and, you know, the middle part of my career, I was in a season where I very much took the perspective and had the perspective and owned the perspective that I was a mom first. And so although I had a job outside the home momming you know, showing up for my kids showing up for my family took precedence over even showing up for myself. And I I’ve recently, you know, within the past five years or so been gotten to make that shift back to who am I and what do I want and what drives my happiness now that I’m through this chapter of really feeling like I wanted to be super present for my kids and super sort of putting them before everything else. And it’s it’s an evolution, right. And so it has been a reconnection. And I mean, that’s sort of how I landed in this place of coaching and talking about happiness is this journey that I’ve been on over the last 20 plus years to really connect with my own happiness, my own source of what matters to me.

David Ralph [39:32]
And where are you on this sliding scale of happiness where where would you pitch yourself on a daily basis?

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [39:39]
I’m happy every day

David Ralph [39:43]
I block the other left the gap so that you could come back and go hang on I changed my mind.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [39:47]
No, I’m not gonna change my mind. I’m happy every day even on the hard days. I’m happy

Unknown Speaker [39:53]
leaving another gap.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [39:55]
You can leave the gap there all day long

David Ralph [39:58]
because II Well, I’m glad you are, I’m glad you are, but I don’t I don’t see how you can be. And I’m a very positive and bouncy person. And you know, I’m pretty much live my life like Tigger, but I can’t possibly be happy every day. You know, there’s days I’m like to go on crystal meth, you know, I’m flying. But then the next day, I can just be the cloud over me verb for no reason.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [40:25]
I think you have though, in the baked into what you’re saying some preconceptions about what happiness has to look like, right? That happiness has to look like Tigger. I’m not sure that’s accurate, right? Happiness can be quiet, happiness can be still, happiness doesn’t have to be bouncy, and outward and extroverted all the time. I mean, at my heart, I am an introvert. And so there’s a lot of happiness that comes in quiet and stillness for me. And there are times I’m sure even my husband would say, he’d look at me and not be sure that I’m happy. But I can tell you that I have a lot of happiness in my daily life.

David Ralph [41:03]
So before we send you back in time, on the sermon on Mike, what was the three things that people who have been listening to this podcast could take to assess their happiness?

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [41:17]
To assess their hat? Well, so I’ll offer three thoughts. And we’ve one of them I’ve recently trademarked. And that’s the to don’t list? Well. No, but in all seriousness, that’s a big one, right? really taking the time to reflect on what you’ve got on your plate and in your life, that you could move to, I’m not going to spend time on this list and moving as much of that past as possible now, and then also having a sense of what’s on the bubble. What could you move if you needed more time. So that’s a big one. The second one I’ll offer is really to connect with your essential sources of joy. And we didn’t talk a tonne about this. But we did talk about it a little bit when I asked you what it is about this kind of conversation that really drives you. And it was deep connection. And so you know that for you, a source of joy, when you need to go find more of it, you can look for an opportunity to connect in deep conversation with somebody. That’s a very small example. But you can think if you made an inventory, kind of at the essential level of what really makes you happy, how you could incorporate those things, even on days, that might be the tougher days. So that’s number two. And then the last, and I think we touched on this concept briefly, is just to really be cognizant of the season of life that you’re in. You know, there are seasons that we choose, and seasons that happened to us. And 2020 is a great example of a season that happened to us, right, like the rug got ripped out from under a lot of our lives. And we had a choice, we had a choice to fight that, or, or keep charging ahead as if nothing had changed. Or we had a choice to take a moment and look at the container, the season container that we were living in and figure out how we wanted to reallocate our priorities, our time our resources, given the changes in the world. And I think having that consciousness of the container you’re sitting in can be something that automatically increases. If not your happiness, I’ll give you this one, your contentment. And so those are the three things I would focus on.

David Ralph [43:25]
So you’re basically saying I was right at that last moment, I became the winner. Did I, Becky?

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [43:30]
And then No, no, no, I can see to the various so this is like, like, maybe we gave up one count of the complaint, you know, but it’s like a 15 count complaint. So I don’t know that you could call that a win. I could, I

David Ralph [43:41]
could call it a win. In fact, I will. So basically is the part of the show that I’ve been building up to, and this is the part that does make me happy when I get to say to you, we’re gonna put you on the Sermon on the mic when you go back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could speak to the young Becky, what age would you choose? And what advice would you give her? Well, we’re gonna play the music. And when it fails, it’s your time to talk. This is the Sermon on the mic.

Unknown Speaker [44:17]
With the best bit of the show,

Unknown Speaker [44:24]

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [44:33]
So as I was reflecting on what age I wanted to talk to myself, I landed on, I would like to talk to my 17 year old self. And this is in part because I’m sitting in a world where I have a 17 year old daughter who is really thinking about where she wants to take her life. And when I was 17. I started college, and I started college thinking that I wanted to go well, not even I wanted that I should go to medical school. And then I got to college and realised that I didn’t actually like the science courses I was taking at all. And in fact, what I liked was connecting with people and hanging out and being social and being having freedom that I beyond anything that I had never known at home. And that launched me on a path of, well, what should I do next, and I got so hung up in the shoulds, the shoulds, of getting good grades, the shoulds, of getting a good job. And by good I mean a job that people outside of myself that society, my parents, my friends would look at and say, Oh, that’s a good job, you know, it’s, it’s steady, it’s safe, you’re going to be paid well. And then from there, it was, well, time to go to grad school, let me go to a good grad school and let me get a job at a good law firm. And so I spent so much of that period of my life from 17 to let’s say, 25, living under the shadow of shoulds. And so my sermon or my my, the thing that I would like to say to my 17 year old self, who I’m pretty sure would not have listened. But I would try to say it anyway, is that life is about what you want to do. Life is about being happy and finding what has meaning and purpose for you. It is not about meeting anyone else’s definition of success, you’re allowed to decide what feels like success to you. And that definition is allowed to change as your life changes. But it does not have to be based on anything that anyone else tells you matters, it does not have to be based on the dollars in your bank account, or the number on a scale or the title on a business card. In fact, I think success for you young 17 year old Becky will end up being based on how much happiness you have in your life and how much happiness you can bring to other people’s lives. So just allow yourself the opportunity to look big to look broad, to dream without limits and consider all the possibilities of paths and opportunities that might bring you more of what actually matters to you, not what you think should not just my sermon on the mind, right stuff,

David Ralph [47:31]
great stuff. So what’s the number one best way that our audience who’ve been listening today can connect with you.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [47:37]
So the best way would be to head over to my website, which is untangle happiness, calm, and you can find everything that I’ve got going on, including my book, The happiness recipe, a powerful guide to living what matters, which will be I assume, by the time this airs out on Amazon.

David Ralph [47:55]
Brilliant stuff, I will jump over and I’ll buy 50 copies myself so that I can be as happy as you are every single day. Becky, did you think it? Did you think it Oh, do me?

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [48:06]
I mean, if you buy 50 copies of my book, it will increase my happiness. I don’t know about yours.

David Ralph [48:10]
Oh, yeah. So easily bought Becky Morrison, you’re so easily. Well, thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots. Please come back again, when you got more dots to join up. Because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Becky Morrison, thank you so much.

Happiness Expert Becky Morrison [48:29]
Thank you so much.

David Ralph [48:33]
Finding the happiness gap with Becky Morrison. So we kind of agree, but we didn’t agree. I kind of think happiness is is an extreme that you aim for. And it comes every now and again. Like when you go into Disney World and you being obviously brilliant. I’m having a great day. But she thinks that you can be sort of happy all the time, just by re framing it. I’d be interested to know what you guys think drop us an email, Join Up and just say, David, you’re right, or Becky You’re right. And we’re collate the information and we’ll find out who says what. But until next time, my young friends thank you so much for being here with us on Join Up Dots for anybody who has got a business idea or anything going on we got so much going on back at Join Up Dots. It’s it’s a bit of a drag, but we can’t just go boom and get it to the to the forefront, but it is coming. But anybody out there that just wants to chat and say hello and random things past me then you know where to do come across to Join Up booked some time on the Contact Us page. And I’ll be there to say hello to you. Until next time, I will see you look after yourself. Stay sexy. And just come back Please come back. See ya.

Outro [49:44]
That’s the end of China. You’ve heard the conversation. Now it’s time for you to start taking massive action create your life Eli will be back again real soon. Join Up Dots Join Up, Dots Join Up Dots Join Up Dots.


Making Things Harder Than It Should Be

Making Things Harder Than They Need To Be

Making Things Harder Than They Need To Be Is The Subject On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast

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Making Things Harder Than They Need To Be

Making Things Harder Than It Should BeMaking Things Harder Than They Need To Be seems to be a problem in todays day and age.

It should be be the case for sure, as we have more and more devices and instruments to make things much simpler.

But is this true?

By being given things that should be the answer to all our problems, are we actually losing ourselves in the weeds?

Well in todays episode of Join Up Dots, we are going to ask the question Are We Making Things Harder Than They Need To Be” in our businesses and life.

And best of all what we can do about it.


Changing the Hard Is Best Mindset

If i look back on my family life when i was growing up it was surrounded by hardworking adults.

Adults that would spend their time spouting such amazing advice as “If its not hard then its not worth doing”

What the hell does that actually mean, as its so wrong its unbelievable.

If you look at all the high achievers, yes there has of course been grind and hustle to get things going.

But also they knew where their efforts were best placed and that was going into the sweet spot of “talent, skills and focus”

They know what they do best, and focus their energies on that key area as the results will come to them quicker.

So if you are trapped in the “I’m going to force my way through the issue” thinking, then thin again.

Making Things Harder Than They Need To Be is the wrong way to go.

Simplest is the most effective.


What Goes Up Most Come Down (Burnout)

We are all able to work incredibly hard on things, both physically and mentally. But for how long is anyone’s guess.

We are all human batteries that need rest and recharging to work at our best.

I remember being hit with acute burnout  and it almost killed me.

Every cell of my body was worn out, depleted and deep inly into the red, by my desire to work harder than anyone I knew.

Now i would never ever work as hard as i did, unless i was balancing it with a desire to work hard at resting and restoring my energies.

In fact I would go as far as to say “If I am making things harder than they need to be” then I will stop and leave it for a bit.

There has to be a better way to get the same result and more often than not that it leaving it to think around the problem


Making Things Harder Than They Need To Be By Ignoring The Fulcrum

Have you ever seen someone lift a boulder on their own.

Yes, some people can of course do it but the majority of us wont be able to budge it at all.

Now back thousands of years ago, when our early settlers were building monuments such as Stonehenge and the pyramids they used pivots, fulcrums and winches to move these massive stones.

Said in another way they use their brains and looked for easier ways to get the job done.

Can you do that in your own life?

Can you delegate the work out to someone else who can do it better than you can?

You can you use better systems to do the heavy lifting?

Whatever you need to do make sure that you do it, as without a doubt the way to success in life and business is keeping things simple.


Stop Swimming Against The Tide And Go With The Flow

Going with the flow was something that I was a master at one time in my life and little by little lost the skill.

When I was younger I could walk into any supermarket and have a till open up in front of me.

I could walk into the worlds busiest airports and get the only taxi or hire car out of there.

It was effortless and I was known as the luckiest man in the world. But in fact it was a simple strategy.

I just relaxed and believed that things would go my way.

I am convinced that my positive outlook lead to the majority of things that happened fortuitously to me.

So the key to stop making things harder than they need to be is simply to relax and allow things to work the way you want them to be.

And i promise you that more often than not that is exactly what will happen to you.


Return To The Top Of Making Things Harder Than They Need To Be

If you enjoyed this episode with Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig, why not check out other inspirational chat with Diane Helbig, Thomas Smallwood,  Tosca Reno and the amazing Christopher Dedeyan

You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here– enjoy



Sales Coaching

Sales Coaching: Succeed Without Selling With Diane Helbig

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast

To subscribe to the podcast, please use the links below:

Click Here to Subscribe via iTunes

Click Here to Subscribe via RSS (non-iTunes feed)

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Introducing Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig

Sales CoachingSales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig is todays guest joining us on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots business podcast.

Last joining us in the first year of Join Up Dots on episode 304, 1700 shows ago.

She could have been taken straight from that classic movie “Dead Poets Society” as her mantra in life and her company name is “Seize This Day”

“Carpe Diem” is the way forward if you want to have a kick ass life, both personally and professionally.

And our guest has demonstrated that everyday as after a successful 20 years in sales and business development she took the experience that she has gained and took the leap of faith.

In early 2006, she launched her coaching practice where she helps individuals and small business to see the opportunities all around them, and bound over the obstacles that they may see as game stoppers.


How The Dots Joined Up for Diane

In her book, Lemonade Stand Selling, she offers a straightforward, common sense and clear guide to the sales process.

She reminds her readers that selling is as easy as when you had that lemonade stand as a child.

So if selling is so easy who do people struggle so badly, especially when building an online business.

And is there one thing that people can do straight away to simplify the process and start seeing rewards?

So lets bring him onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Diane Helbig


Show Highlights

During the show we discussed such deep subjects with Diane Helbig such as:

We link the dating process to the sales process and learn how to get past the big no’s

How Donald Trump managed to get himself to the top by knowing his followers and market first and foremost.

Diane shares why she feels that most business owners have to go through different versions of themselves to find success.

and lastly……

Why Matthew McConaughey is the perfect example to study for real sales coaching success.


How To Connect With Diane Helbig





Return To The Top Of Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig

If you enjoyed this episode with Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig, why not check out other inspirational chat with Perry Marshall, Thomas Smallwood,  Tosca Reno and the amazing Christopher Dedeyan

You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here– enjoy


Full Transcription Of Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig Interview

Intro [0:00]
Life shouldn’t be hard life should be a fun filled adventure every day. So now start joining up dots tap into your talents, your skills, your God given gifts and tell your boss, you don’t deserve me. I’m out of here. It’s time for you to smash that alarm clock and start getting the dream business and life you will of course, are dreaming God. Let’s join your host, David Ralph from the back of his garden in the UK, or wherever he might be today with another jam packed episode of the number one hit podcast. Join Up Dots.

David Ralph [0:41]
Yes, hello. Good morning friends. Good morning friends and thank you so much for being here with us once more on Join Up Dots. Today’s guest she’s heard me say that once before because she lost joined us on the show back on episode 300. And for about 1700 shows ago of Join Up Dots. And on that time, we say that she could have been taken straight from the classic movie Dead Poets Society as a mantra in life was and her company name was seize the day Carpe Diem is the way forward if you want to have a kick ass life, both personally and professionally as she was telling us. And our guest has demonstrated that every day is after a successful 20 years in sales and business development. She took the experience that she gained and took the leap of faith. But that of course was a long time ago. And since then, she has been doing her coaching practice where she helps individuals and small businesses to see the opportunities all around them. She launched several books, one of them being the lemon. Oh, I can’t even say the lemonade stand selling. She offers a straightforward common sense and clear guide to the sales process. And she won millions her readers that selling is as easy as when you had that lemonade stand as a child. And so upselling is so easy. Why do people struggle so badly? Especially when building an online business? And is there one thing that people can do straight away to simplify the process and start seeing rewards? Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots for the second time with the one and only Diane Helbig. Good morning Diane How are you?

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [2:21]
I’m very well David, I’m very well.

David Ralph [2:23]
We we’ve already gone past our technical issues. I’ve already queried whether you was talking to me in the shower. Life couldn’t be any better, could it now. It’s a perfect place to be. Now let’s get straight on to this I notice is the old book so we won’t hang on this. But I’m always a bit weirded out by the lemonade stand. Because in the United Kingdom, we never did this. We we never had kids selling lemonade stands. And so I was always intrigued by it. And one day, I was driving through America and I saw it somewhere in Pennsylvania or somewhere I was and they were sending it so I thought Ah, lemonade stand selling I jumped out, I rushed across I bought a glass or a cup of the most viable tasting thing. It was literally like, like petroleum really, of lemonade. What was in it? It left me flying for about four days.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [3:20]
A lot of sugar.

David Ralph [3:22]
It was it was more than that. Diane. I don’t know what it was. It was something chemical and a bit mystic. It was like alchemy.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [3:32]
Well, it should have been lemonade. But when children make lemonade, it doesn’t really necessarily taste like lemonade. It certainly

David Ralph [3:41]
did. And so in some ways the simplicity on this. Let’s start on this first of all, and then obviously we’ll move you to where you are now. But children kind of know how to sell don’t they? Because I always referenced this. We know how to knock on the door. Ask if somebody wants their car washed or their dry cleaned up snow. We know that there’s a surface that somebody doesn’t want to do we put ourselves in the position as children to do it and get paid for it. It sails just naturally occur. Why do children know this?

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [4:13]
I think it’s because they haven’t gone through this indoctrination around the word No. You know, so children don’t have a no metre. So they just go and do and they’re getting encouragement from the people around them like their parents to go knock on doors. And lastly, I think because they know the people whose doors they’re knocking on there’s a relationship there.

David Ralph [4:43]
Because when I was a kid my mom always used to say, if you don’t ask you don’t get and then if I asked her for a new bike or something, I never got it. So I never quite understood what what her logic was. But certainly that there is that thing that we do lose, don’t we as adults By by just asking and being turned down,

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [5:03]
yes, yes, we get in our own head and we equate the know, to people placing a value judgement on us when it’s just not true. They don’t know us. So they’re not rejecting us. They’re rejecting the conversation, they’re rejecting the opportunity, whatever it is. And there’s so many reasons why that could be happening, but we automatically go to I don’t want to be rejected children just don’t have that. You know,

David Ralph [5:35]
before we were recording, Diana, you was telling me that I was an incredibly sexually attractive man. Do you? Do you remember saying that? No, you don’t remember saying that? Diane? I’ll tell you what, I tell you. What if you breezed past her, by me anyway. Men men have nose harder don’t know. Because I’ve never had a no worse than going up to a girl asking about and she’ll say no. It’s that that’s like the hardest. No, I think you’ve ever had. So it’s kind of business knows should be quite easily easy to breeze past.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [6:12]
Oh, well, not necessarily, if that’s so interesting, because if you equate business to dating, which I think there are a lot of parallels, you don’t want that no, no becomes such a big word. For everyone that what happens is you go back to in your mind these experiences of when someone told you no and how it felt, and it didn’t feel good. So you don’t want to put yourself in a position to do it again, in any arena. So it’s more of that it’s sort of like a trigger.

David Ralph [6:51]
I thought you were gonna carry on now i was i was i was totally. I put you to teach me how to speak to women where I thought this was gonna be this was gonna be an award winning Emmy episode. So it’s a trigger that we get sort of trained. Is there. Is it something that we feel the emotions and we just think, oh, I don’t want to put myself in that position again.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [7:13]
Yes, we go right back to that that feeling that we had when someone said no, you know, and for guys, when the girl says no, when you got to ask, right? That same feeling comes right back. So why would you put yourself in that situation?

David Ralph [7:31]
So let’s just keep on this subject for a moment cuz it intrigues me. Okay. So is there a way that we can make a girl say yes, in the same way that we can overcome a business obstacle and turn it into a say a yes. Because as I say, go for No, go for no, if you have enough nose, you’d become, you know, the Yes, man. And you get there? Is there a way we can do it? Or is it just simply a numbers game?

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [8:01]
So I don’t believe it’s a numbers game. And I do think there are similarities. It’s my viewpoint that if we realise that we are on a discovery mission that we that we don’t really know, if we want to date that girl, so to speak, until we learn more about her until we get to know her. The same is true in sales. What we really want to do is get a meeting or get a conversation, we want to learn more about that prospect so that we can identify if they are someone who we would want to explore doing business with. And then it goes to and then can we you know, do we have really have something that will help them solve a problem. So it’s my belief that if guys were first seeking to get to know a girl, before they decided they wanted to ask her out, because she’s pretty, then it would work a lot better, the girl would feel better, she’d feel respected, she’d be more interested in having that conversation. And if there were a reason why she didn’t want to take it further, or the guy didn’t want to take it further, it would come up, and it would be easier. It would be an easier conversation to have.

David Ralph [9:22]
I remember a guy telling me a long time ago and he stuck with me. And he actually described himself as frighteningly unattractive. Okay? And to be honest, I’m not going to disagree with him. He was he wasn’t attractive in any shape or form. But his wife was absolutely drop dead gorgeous. And we said How the hell did you pull her? You know, she’s, she’s not just out of your league. She’s not. She’s out of your planet. And he said, when you look like me, you get turned down all the time. He said, and when you like her, everybody doesn’t ask Because they think they’re going to get turned down. And so it’s a mutual moment of connection. But no man meets the person who never gets asked out and boom, it happens. And I’ve often reflected on that. And I think to myself, is that how it works? Is that why when you see a really unattractive man walking along the road with a gorgeous woman, you think to yourself, How the hell did that happen? Is it just that he’s he’s got toughened up to the nose and doesn’t mind getting them? And she’s waiting, because nobody’s asking.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [10:31]
could very well be sure, it could also be that because he’s gotten so many knows he’s not walking into the conversation expecting to get a yes. So if he’s walking into the conversation with a totally open mind, and just is expressing interest in getting to know the woman that is very attractive.

David Ralph [10:55]
I think he wasn’t I think he was just, I think he was just trying to steam in there it really Diane, I think you’re, I think you’re being too nice to the male population.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [11:05]
I could be?

David Ralph [11:06]
Yeah, I think you are. So so let’s let’s spin this slightly big fat. There’s a psychology here that we’re talking about, which, obviously, is the big part of sales. And when you see it, especially for the newbie online, and I look back on myself in the early days, where I used to almost scream, buy, buy, buy as loudly as I possibly could in the nearest person’s ear. And of course, they just sort of ran a mile. Now I hardly have to sell a toy just sort of naturally happens. Is Is it a simple case of just being more relaxed in yourself and making it occur naturally?

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [11:45]
for them? I think it’s because once you’ve been doing it for a while, and you realise what you’re doing isn’t working. I mean, hopefully people realise this isn’t working, I need to change my tack when we relax. And for me look at it through a different lens and say, Okay, I don’t know whether I can help this person. And whether I want to help this person than the way I approach the conversation is much calmer. It’s not salesy. It’s really about having a conversation as opposed to buy, buy, buy. And so it’s a more confident way of selling.

David Ralph [12:34]
Because if you do, do the buy, buy buy more often, but not you get the buy, buy buy, don’t you and they just sort of walk away. And you wonder why. And then people spend a lot of time looking at their websites and trying to make it perfect and stuff. And I go over to some websites now have some real big achievers. And I look at them, I think God, they’re rubbish, you know. So it’s not all presentation. It’s about congruency with messaging, I suppose if you’re honest, and authentic people are more likely to trust you and buy from you.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [13:12]
Exactly. That’s exactly right. There has to be a connection, there has to be a resonance between you and the person who you’re talking to. And, you know, the website is marketing, the website is presence. But people don’t buy because of that. And I think a lot of people are confused about that. They think if they do really great marketing that their phone’s gonna ring. It’s really I mean, that’s that sales. And even if your phone did ring, they were still gonna want to have you have a conversation with them, not just automatically try and sell them something.

David Ralph [13:50]
Because Do you think that because I say this time and time again on Join Up Dots. But running an online business is so simple, it’s untrue. So you basically come up with an offer. And then you look around at your competitors. And you think, Okay, what are they offering? How can I improve upon it? How does it make me feel when I’m looking at theirs? Would I actually buy this myself and fine tune it? And then sit there and think to yourself? Where are these people? Where are the people that really need this most? And it could be on Google, it could be on Facebook, it could be on LinkedIn, it could be whatever. And then just sort of speak to them. You know, I helped a guy recently and he’s just launched a coaching business. And this is you Mr. Tom Gosling. And I can mention you now because it’s out there. And he wasn’t that bothered with sort of keyword research and Google marketing because he said, my clients will be my network, but I’ve built up naturally over years. And it made me sort of sit back a while because I thought this is this is good. He already knows his market because he Was his market and he stepped away from it. So is it as simple as that? Know your offer, and then find out where the people are who want that offer?

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [15:11]
Yeah, and speak, and I do think it is speak to them there, educate them, share information with them, let them come to the conclusion on their own, that you are for real, that you are a good resource that you are someone who knows what they’re doing. That’s tremendously valuable. You can’t be talking about what you you know, like the value of what you offer in the places where your prospects aren’t. And a lot of people do that, because someone tells them, oh, well, you have to be on Facebook, okay? If your markets not on Facebook, then don’t go there. Because it’s not gonna do any good. There, they’re not gonna hear you.

David Ralph [16:00]
I am not on Facebook at all, I don’t go over there at all. And my business is just grown more and more and more, you know, and what I realised was that my market was better placed podcasting, where my talents and skills are hopefully better suited than it was just kind of doing stuff on other platforms. But I didn’t really know what I was doing. And there are some masters on Facebook as masters on Instagram and his masters all over the place. I wasn’t that person. So I got rid of it all and just focused on the one avenue. And literally, I have to turn people away. Because otherwise I would be, you know, I wouldn’t be able to walk around the garden in my underpants quite happily, I would just be dealing with people all the time.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [16:48]
But see, you figured it out, right? You figured out the medium that connects you to your audience. And then you allow them to experience you, and realise that you are someone that they want to connect with that they want to work with. And it’s a great method.

David Ralph [17:12]
Can I say two words to you, Diane, which might make you shiver, or it might make you it might make you so passionate that you will storm? The Join Up Dots headquarters, can I can I say these two words to you? Sure, Donald Trump. Now, Donald Trump, Donald Trump has disappeared off the face of the earth really recently and dependent on when you’re listening to this podcast. But he was a master at finding his tribe and really stirring them up. And it was almost like he didn’t care about 90% of the population, he cared about the people that already loved him. And really sort of, were passionate. Now. That’s one of the big winners and and I salute him for that. Because in online a lot of time, it’s more and more and more, okay, you got 100,000 listeners, you need 200,000 listeners, you need 500,000 listeners, and you don’t because most of them, don’t actually bring anything back into your business. You’re much better doing an old Trumpy boy and finding the 10% that are really passionate and trying to serve them.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [18:22]
Definitely, at that, that is exactly right. numbers really don’t matter. Because it comes down to who are you really connecting with? and usually it is a smaller number. And it’s more loyal. You’re more loyal to them. I mean, using Trump as an example. It’s ridiculous that the loyalty that they have for him. So you know, I mean, they’ll start in the capital forum. So he is absolutely speaking to his base, he understands his base, he understands what matters to them. And in sales, speak to your base, don’t try and sell to everybody because everybody is not a target market.

David Ralph [19:09]
So how do we do this? How do we bleed out like Donald Trump did, who he was speaking to, because to me from the United Kingdom, it was almost like he knew who he was going to be targeting. Before we even started, it was like, he got up on the first box and he spoke the language of the people that actually voted for him. How did he do this?

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [19:34]
Well, I think at first he just spoke the language and those people came to him and then when he realised they were there, because he was getting the reinforcement. He just doubled down and and really kept that same messaging. He didn’t try to message to other groups. He didn’t try and expand his, you know, message to bring in more people. He just stayed where he wasn’t effective. So, like the sales lesson is, know your value, know the problem that you solve and how you solve it, and speak to it consistently. Don’t go off on tangents, just stay there, because the more you’re talking about it, the more that your tribe will find you. And they will gather around you, and you will continue to build that community around your business.

David Ralph [20:30]
Now, I am a great believer that business should be fun, and it should be enjoyable or you shouldn’t be in it. And then there was a time through the Join Up Dots process that it wasn’t like that it was it was just a slog, and it was a chore, and I’ve been quite open with that. Now, it’s totally different. And it’s sort of it is a walk in the garden in the underpants every day, you know, it’s just a breeze. Now, one of the things that I look back on which I did was I didn’t listen to other people who gave me advice, when it wasn’t going very well of changing my presentation style, changing how I should be doing it, because I didn’t believe they were right. I didn’t know why I thought they were wrong. But I knew it wasn’t right for me. So I just stayed doing what I should be doing. And that’s an issue again, isn’t it where people start the process, I think they should be further ahead. And then they start pivoting left, right and centre, which is okay financially. But if you’re pivoting away from your authentic self, then you’re just going to be more and more diluted, what you need to be is that that powerful glass of lemonade, whatever it was, that was so powerful, and that stain that it’s left me, you know, flying high for 20 years. And and not diluting yourself just because the market tells you to.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [21:56]
Yeah, and it’s so true that people get desperate. And so they try to be all things all people, they try and pick something outside really have their core value outside of what they enjoy doing. Because they feel like the market is telling them that they need to be something else and someone else but it’s not authentic. So it doesn’t resonate it it. It takes your focus away from really making sure that your messaging is authentic to the value that you bring, and that you are messaging in the right places. I think people pivot because they think they’re not offering something the market wants when really, they’re just not getting their message to their market effectively.

David Ralph [22:47]
Because my business exploded when I put a simple strap line on it online business made easy. And that was it. It was just those four words. And from then on, everything became clear and precise. Now what we’re doing there, we’re not talking about a logo, we’re not talking about a colour scheme, we’re talking about an ethos. And once you get that business ethos, that is when people understand, and then people lead and follow and may come towards you. How long did it take before you because you’ve gone through two or three of them, you know, back in the day was seized today. And now it’s it’s more succeed without selling. It’s more about I suppose the easy process of selling? How many do you think you went through before you found the one that fell naturally right for you?

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [23:41]
I think I went well. It’s interesting. So I think two or three. And I think it was more. So when I started it felt right. And then I got to a point I was about 10 years in and I thought okay, I’m 10 years in, it’s time to grow up. So I felt like I had to you know, button it up a little bit become a little more professional and in my marketing and my presence. And then

David Ralph [24:14]
I think kitten jumping in it. Was that you? Was that you? Yeah. So So you were more professional. So you were just playing to yourself?

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [24:22]
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I wasn’t influenced from anyone else. It was me feeling ready. And it just happens over time, I get more and more comfortable and confident with what I’m doing.

David Ralph [24:39]
Because I’m the opposite. All right. For many, many years, I wore a suit and tie. The only time you will see me wear a suit and tie now is if someone’s died and I’m being dragged to a funeral or wedding. You know, that’s not me at all. And my wife says to the kids, oh, we used to be so small every day when we first met and I used I think Yeah, because I was going to work You know, now I’ve got a different type of work. My professionalism is more to do with personal connection, and trust and authenticity. Again, I, you know, I, I go differently, which is an interesting point of view, isn’t it, but we can all do things in a different way and still find enough people to make a living?

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [25:24]
Absolutely, there is plenty of the right business out there. And you just have to realise that what you want is the right business for you, and your sensibility and what you have to offer and who you can help the most.

David Ralph [25:40]
Can you get this straight off the bat? Diane, do you have? Do you think that everyone if you dig in and Join Up Dots, I’ve been through two or three versions of their business and themselves?

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [25:53]
Go? Definitely, I think it’s a journey. I think it’s a process where my experience has been and with people who I’ve watched as well, you start in one place with one belief system, so to speak, and, and I think we all grow through the process. And our businesses change and grow up, you know, so to speak, and they don’t take major turns. I’ve rarely seen someone take a major turn that worked. But going through that progression, and building on the lessons that we learn along the way. Yeah, I think it is not a static experience,

David Ralph [26:42]
as I’m going through another not a pivot, a slight detour. And it’s bringing me closer to who I naturally AM. And I can see it, and I can feel it. It’s just a natural fit of where my business matches me personally, and it feels right. And it’s kind of like, you’re you’re putting your fingers together. And one of them’s sticking up words. And then every now and again, it tucks in it. That’s it. That’s it. And of course, when you put your fingers together and you lock them, it’s so much stronger. Because every single bit has its place. It’s the it’s the Yin and Yang, isn’t it? It’s the night and day when the two come together, and you go, yeah, this feels right, it feels right. And I’ve certainly gone through that jus in no short measure to lock down and all the issues that we’ve had this year, we’re just looking at a way of simplifying and simplifying again.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [27:43]
Well, for sure, I mean, I think the pandemic has taught us a lot about what’s important to us, what what we offer, you know, who we are, and, and really how we show up. And, and I really, it’s funny, because I’m going through an experience right now where I just ended a relationship with a client that I probably shouldn’t have gotten into to begin with. But try, you know, we all tried really hard, and it just really was not a fit. And so being able to say to myself, wow, this feels great. letting this go, it was a mutual decision. This is right, just, you know, and then working with a client where it’s working really well, that’s the reminder that Yep, you know what, that’s what I’m supposed to be doing. And that’s where I am, you know, at my best at my highest value.

David Ralph [28:41]
Because a year ago, I was all about one to one, and working with people to really, you know, spend time with the individuals understanding their issues and stuff. And now I’m building everything to scale. And I’m going 360, but that, that two years of just working with people one to one really teaches you an MBA in business, that no matter what we think, is in our brain that people want more often than not, it’s not. And you see that when people create their first online products, they throw the kitchen sink at it, and they do 600 videos, and they do a PDF and click sheets and and people only want to know how to do the thing that they’re buying. It’s that’s that simplicity that you need. And so is that something that people have to be aware of that when they build an online business, it is as important to build it like an offline business when the door will open and customers will come in and you can speak to people than it is just sitting behind a website thinking things are all going to occur on automatic pilot.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [29:53]
Oh, absolutely. It’s such a great point. You know, we you have to be engaging with people. You know, I I always say sales is a verb, it is an activity, we have to do it. And so, yes, you have to do it. And one of the things that I really like about what you’ve said a couple of times, it’s about the simplicity. A lot of times, especially at the beginning of someone’s entrepreneurial journey, they complicate things, or they think they have to communicate in a way that shows that they know what they’re talking about, except that it totally escapes everyone who they’re talking to, is just too much, right? Just whoa, wait a minute. The simpler, the better, the more concise, clearer, the more direct, the easier it is for people to find you to connect with you to understand the value that you bring, and to want to then have a further conversation.

David Ralph [30:52]
Because I remember back in the days being quite intrigued by Click Funnels the product by Russell Brunson. And now I look at it. And I think I wouldn’t go anywhere near that. It’s just, it’s too complicated. There’s too many things going on. And I think that with a business, my issue update, here we go, this is going to be transparency via Diane, looking back on it. My issue with my business at certain points was that I didn’t understand what things were happening in the business, things were being clicked on and triggering this and this was going out, and that was going out and vis and when something went wrong, you didn’t know it had gone wrong, because there was too many parts. And so through the last few years, I’ve got rid of literally everything to the point now that I just talked to people, you know, I don’t do a lot of email marketing. I don’t do a lot of this. I don’t do a lot of that. And it’s simple, simple, simple. You build a profile, you build an audience, and then you allow them to connect with you. It’s no different from a market store.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [31:59]
Yeah, boy, I’m so glad that you said that. Because I could never figure out that whole click funnel thing. And part of what drove me crazy about you know, these, what do they call them swipe files. And yeah, I don’t know that. They all look the same. Like, everyone’s looks the same. And I get it that it’s like the great, the latest and greatest sort of thing. But Wow, I just I’m not really convinced. That’s what people want. I get it that that’s what marketers want to do, and salespeople want to do, but just tell people what’s going on, you know, just connect, have the conversation be genuine. Because at the end of the day, people buy from people they don’t buy from companies, they don’t buy from, you know, slick, buttoned up images and whatnot, they buy from someone who they feel a connection to, and who they feel is being honest with them.

David Ralph [32:56]
So so let’s sort of summarise where we are at the moment. So it’s about just being relaxed, just like the guy asking to get out just being relaxed, accepting that you’re going to get nose and just thinking, Okay, that’s that’s part of the game, the more nose I get, ultimately, I will get a yes. It’s about keeping things simple. And it’s about finding your audience and speaking their language. And to me, that’s probably the most important part of all of it, which is why Donald Trump saw so quickly through the masses and became president, because he just understood that one thing.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [33:34]
Exactly. Exactly right. And all of the things that you just said, are easy. They’re not complicated. They’re actually the easiest things to do. And they’re the most effective.

David Ralph [33:47]
Yeah, they’re easy, but they’re hard as well, aren’t they? You know, just being naturally relaxed. You know that that’s difficult, isn’t it?

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [33:55]
Yeah, it is. It is. But it’s also the most attractive way to be Sal. It’s worth figuring out. It’s a mindset shift, which is hard for people. You know, I get it, I get it, but it’s hard. But boy, Sal works that if you can embrace it, you’ll never want to go back to you know, the old way of selling that doesn’t work.

David Ralph [34:21]
Because he don’t know me the other day, I’m 100% heterosexual, Diane, but if I was going to have an affair with a man, it would probably be Matthew McConaughey. And I’ve seen him on a couple of podcast interviews and stuff. And he’s just so relaxed. He’s so chill. It’s like, it’s like he just knows but the more relaxed he is, the better he’s performances. He’s better he’s work is and I’ve watched him a couple of times being interviewed, I think to myself, that somebody I’d like to hang out with back someday, you know, he just kind of understands that relaxed and chilled, works better.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [35:01]
Yeah, cuz he’s just being himself. He’s not trying to be somebody else. He’s not trying to portray some sort of avatar or persona. He is who he is, you know, this is what you get you get him when he shows up, and that’s attractive.

David Ralph [35:17]
Do you think I got a challenge with him? Diane? Do you think?

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [35:20]
Maybe I don’t know.

David Ralph [35:21]
Did you think JT, do you think I could push the buttons and see see how that works? I don’t know. I don’t know. Maybe another day now. So before we sort of move on to the Sermon on the mic, when we send you back in time, well, what was the sort of big setting? We have these all the time in our business? When something happens? And it kind of floors us? Because we think, oh, that’s it. That Max, that’s what I couldn’t see. That’s the struggle. You know, as I referenced, when I thought to myself, what I need to do is try to make the sales process and the business process as easy as possible. That’s when it literally was like, what was I struggling for that that’s that’s it? So with yourself? What was the sort of big dot when you felt Oh, my god, yes, this, this was what I was missing.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [36:18]
I think it was that I figured out, what I had to do is figure out where I was getting clients, you know what, how that was actually happening, I had to look at the journey of the things that I was doing and where that the really good clients were coming from in that journey. So that then I could focus on those activities. Because I’m like every other small business owner, it’s easy to have someone say, Oh, you should be doing this over here. And you think, yeah, sure. And then you go do it. And and it just takes you away from where you should be. So for me, it was realising that the easiest way for me to get clients was to be in front of an audience speaking, whether in person or online, because it gave people the opportunity to see my style, see that I knew what I was talking about, and decide, you know, that was something that they wanted to learn more about.

David Ralph [37:27]
So you went to them, you basically realised where your clients were going to be waiting. And you took the right fishing rod with the right bait, and basically wheeled him in. Yeah,

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [37:42]

David Ralph [37:43]
Now, that seems easy to me done it. But that that seems like one of those Yeah, backpacks, how it’s done that that seems easy. But But Diane Helbig, standing up on stage now wouldn’t have been the Diane Helbig standing up on stage 10 years ago.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [38:00]
That’s true. That is true.

David Ralph [38:03]
So some people have

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [38:04]
told me that they’ve noticed the difference. They

David Ralph [38:06]
have. Yeah, this is what I was gonna ask. And what is the difference? it? Are you channelling your Matthew McConaughey? Are you far more relaxed?

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [38:17]
Yes, I’m more relaxed, and I’m more engaged with the audience. So there’s more of a connection there. There’s more of a co creating of the experience than me standing up in front of a roomful of people and just talking at them for a period of time.

David Ralph [38:36]
Because what am i worth putting podcast guests is is the one that references my book all the time. The ones that go Yeah, and sometimes, you know, it’s a great book, and I want to reference it myself. But the ones that go yet, if you look in chapter three of my book, and I think no one’s got your book, you know, they’ve come to these podcasts, so they won’t be looking in your book. And it’s kind of just pressurise sales. And the ones who talk about their experience, the amount of emails I get from people going, Oh, that person I really loved. I’m going to buy his book, I’m going to buy his book. And I think to myself, yeah, we didn’t really talk about his book, HPV vaccine, isn’t it, but it’s about building the connection.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [39:18]
It really is. I mean, I it’s so funny, I can’t stand those events that you go to where the person stands in front of the room and just tries to sell you their book. They don’t ever give you content. So they’ll start and you’ll think you’re really gonna get something and then they’ll say, and that, you know, you can get that there. It’s like, Okay, why did I come here? Why am I spending this time? Why am I doing this? I’m not getting anything out of this. And for me, I really want to give the audience something to take with them that maybe they didn’t have before. Maybe they did and they just needed the reminder. And that’s okay, too. But, you know, my goal is that they Have an aha moment or they learn something that or they’re reminded of something that they should be doing because that, for me is what it’s really all about. What do

David Ralph [40:10]
you go? What’s your feelings now on virtual summits? Because, you know, over the last year, everything’s been on zoom, because we’ve had to, and it’s the zoom doom and gloom series of events that we’ve had. And I say no to every single virtual summit I ever get asked to go on now, because I just think nobody really gains other than the person arranging it. It’s just a sort of ego metric. Did you think that it’s this one of these things that when you first start off you think, oh, all somebody is asking me to be involved? But actually, it’s not part of the business strategy, but people should get involved in?

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [40:51]
I do. I think it depends on how involved they’re going to be. But but I do think you make a really good point that it can feel really validating, and oh, you know, this is so great. But there are so many questions attached to it. You know, who’s the audience? How big is the audience? You know, do you get the list? I mean, what are you gonna do with it, there’s just, there’s so much to it. I. So I struggle with the whole virtual thing. I know, it’s where we are these days. Because I really liked the in person. And I think it is so much more connective. At the same time. It’s impossible to do that right now. So I think we have to compromise to some degree. I prefer to create my own stuff and just go do it. Yeah, and draw my audience to me, then, you know, jump on something else.

David Ralph [41:52]
Yeah, oh, yeah. Or do it yourself, I think do it yourself. And don’t get involved, even if it is it does blow smoke up you and you think, oh, somebody wants me to do this. I just look at it. Now. I can’t be bothered, I just can’t be bothered.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [42:07]
I know though, I will say another potential way of looking at it is that the more I want to say this, if there’s a credibility factor of being able to say, I am presenting consistently, I am out there I am providing I am offering, it’s not so much that see who wants me with them as it is, I have all these opportunities to provide valuable information to people, there is a credibility factor with that. And because we’re in a virtual world, people do have to figure out how to stay relevant and credible when they can’t be seen in person. So

David Ralph [42:53]
Google Alerts, Google Alerts, I think is the best thing for finding these events and these summits that are relevant to your business. Somebody told me this, I thought, This is great. I don’t do it myself. As I say, I can’t be bothered. But um, you put Google alerts for your specialism calling all speakers or something as another tag. And then each week, you get an email that’s comes through and it’s just a list of events where they’re looking for people like you to speak on sales around the world. Now that to me, is the perfect fishing rod.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [43:30]
Oh, I agree. I love Google Art. I mean it because it makes the process so easy. Have the information come to you. So you don’t have to go look for it.

David Ralph [43:40]
Yeah, have the information come to you. Have the customers come to you have the sales come to you. If it is it’s a walk in the park this game in it.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [43:52]

David Ralph [43:55]
Yes, sir. So easy. Well, of course, it’s not that easy, but that’s why we’re here and Join Up Dots to help you along the way from starting point to wherever you need to be by having these kinds of interviews and of course Diane has been on this show twice now. And as we normally do, we put people on the Sermon on the mic sending them back to have a one on one with their youngest self but this time, on the second time, she doesn’t get to choose know when I play the music and the music fades out. She gets to speak to the Diane, who was last on the show December 2014 of Join Up Dots on episode 304. So I’m going to play the music Diane and when it fades, it’s your time to give advice to your younger self on the Sermon on the mic

Unknown Speaker [44:46]
with the best bit of the show

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [45:03]
Well, Diane, you’ve come a long way in the past seven years. And if I were going to give you any advice, it would be to go ahead and buckle down and create the content and the products that you have kept on your list all of this time, and have not created, because there’s going to come a time when you’re going to need them, and you’re going to wish you already had him. So buckle down now, create your plan, your implementation schedule, and just start whittling away at those online courses and ebooks and sales training programmes that you’ve been wanting to do and haven’t been able to find the time.

David Ralph [45:59]
You know, what I loved about that Diane was just keep whittling away. And that’s kind of it, isn’t it? It’s just, you know, do something every day. And you get somewhere.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [46:07]
Yeah, yeah. Right. You got to break it down into small pieces. Because if you don’t, it’s too big.

David Ralph [46:13]
Yeah, Join Up. Dots. And they all build into a picture. But you can see from afar away, Diane, what’s the number one best way that our audience can connect with you?

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [46:22]
Oh, my gosh, thank you, they can go to my website, Helbig And there they can, you know, reach out to me see what’s going on, sign up for my newsletter, whatever they want to do.

David Ralph [46:34]
Well, Diane, thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots. And please come back again, when you’ve got even more dots to join up. Because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our paths is the best way to build our futures. Diane Helbig. Thank you so much.

Sales Coaching Expert Diane Helbig [46:50]
Oh, thank you, I enjoyed it.

David Ralph [46:54]
Diane Heliberg, Yes, succeed without selling. And it’s true. If you if you feel like you’re trying too hard to make a sale, then you’re doing it wrong. You know, you either haven’t got the right market, you haven’t got the right messaging, or you’re just trying too hard. And if you try to hit a golf ball really hard, it’s never as good as just, you know, almost closing your eyes and just swinging. It’s the relaxed way to business. That really does make a difference takes a while to get there, though. It really does. And I think all of us have to go through Well, maybe we don’t have to go through but I think we do go through that kind of push, push, push, instead of sitting back and thinking okay, let’s find the effortless way of making this work. Because I’ll tell you, it is out there. Until next time, my friends you Look after yourselves up happy, sexy, and whatever you’re getting up to. I’ll see you again soon. Cheers. See ya.

Unknown Speaker [47:50]
Bye. Are you ready to make a full time living online? Check out the amazing Join Up Dots, business coaching. Hello, my name is Alan. And I’ve just completed the excellent eight week course with David. Before I started working with David Actually, I

Unknown Speaker [48:06]
had no idea at all, where to start,

Unknown Speaker [48:09]
I had a lot of ideas about why I probably thought was going to be good business. David was able to help me through that though, to find that passion. Within literally minutes. We had, we had a business idea. And for the last seven weeks, we’ve been building on it and building on that. And the position I’m in now, I don’t think I’ve ever got here

Unknown Speaker [48:29]
on my own because of the amount of information that David gives the structure. He’s got the full package here. And he explains it in a way that I can understand. His support is is phenomenal. I feel like this is the way business is supposed to work. David

Unknown Speaker [48:44]
helped me understand. Okay, what were the next logical steps that I should do? How can I get this up and running. So I would really recommend this as an excellent course helping you if you have an idea if you have no idea, really teasing that out and some of the practicalities and steps to take to really launch your business whether as a full time job was a side hustle. So it was really excellent. I recommend it for anybody thinking about setting up their own business, or both. It’s an exaggeration to say David will totally save you years.

Unknown Speaker [49:14]
Thank you, David for all your amazing help and support which keeps on going. And we certainly couldn’t be where we are today without you. So you’re awesome.

David Ralph [49:24]
So if you would love to become my next success story and have your own life changing online business, following my step by step system, fine tuned over many years to take away the effort and expense that others struggle with. Then come across to Join Up and book a free call with myself. Let’s get you live in the easy life as it’s there waiting for you to get it that is Join Up business coaching.

Outro [49:50]
That’s the end of the conversation. Now it’s time for you to start taking massive action create your life as he only live he will be back again real soon. Join Up Dots Join Up Dots Join Up Dots. Jolene, Jolene Up Dots