Welcome to the Join Up Dots business coaching podcast interview with Vikki Claflin
Introducing Vikki Claflin
Todays guest is an amazingly positive lady, who found her life turned around at the age of 50 when many are looking forward to a life of good health into their later years.
She received the diagnosis that she was a victim of Parkinsons disease, which was not the kind of words that anyone hopes to hear.
Although in truth she didn’t stay in the victim mode for long.
As after many dark days spent coming to terms with her diagnosis, her natural comic optimism and irreverence began to resurface and she started writing on her blog about the funny side of living with Parkinsons.
She shared the good the bad, the up and downs, the funny and the downright hilarious.
How The Dots Joined Up For Vikki
And alongside her loving family, set off to ensure the world knows that there is a bright-side to living with this chronic illness.
Delivering her story in the form of the the best selling book Shake, Rattle & Roll With It: Living and Laughing with Parkinson’s she has seen her life become a whirl of public speaking and media interviews, as the world looks to be informed about something that can happen to all of us.
She is a humor writer, author, public speaker and former newspaper columnist and regular contributor to the Huffington Post and now a guest on Join Up Dots too.
So what was it that she found in herself, that pulled herself out of the dark and despair?
And what advice would she give to the listeners who have family members dealing with this on a daily basis?
Well lets find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Vikki Claflin
During the episode we discussed such weighty topics with Vikki Claflin such as:
How she is so aware of the people that she surrounds herself with and will say farewell to anyone that she feels brings her down.
Why she fought hard not to go to the Doctors for two years, as she was scared to hear the words he was going to say, but thought “Yippee” when she did!
How she struggled with the imposter syndrome and didn’t quite believe that she was the right person to write a book.
How sometimes in the middle of the night she accepts that the condition will get worse for her, but believes they will find a cure before it does!
How she did her best to keep it a secret from everyone for years, until finally accepting that it was her and she could handle it.
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Full Transcription Of Vikki Claflin Interview
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK. David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:26]
Yes, hello there, everybody and welcome to Join Up Dots Episode 285. When we started Join Up Dots many, many many years ago it isn’t is only sort of mumps really. But I’m over coming up to 300 episodes ago we really wanted to give you different stories or when you tune in on a daily basis, you never really know what you’re going to get. And some of them are funny. Some of them are sad, and some of them are like today’s which is a combination of both. Now, today’s guest is an amazingly positive lady who found her life turning Underground at the age of 50. When many are looking forward to a life of good health into their later years, she received the diagnosis that she was a victim of Parkinson’s disease, which was not the kind of words that anyone hopes to hear. Although in truth, she didn’t stay in the victim mode, but long as after many dark days spent coming to terms with her diagnosis, and natural comic optimism and irreverence began to resurface, and she started writing on her blog about the funny side of living with Parkinson’s. She shared the good, the bad, the ups and the downs, the funny and the downright hilarious and alongside her loving family setup to ensure the world knows that there is a bright side to living with this chronic illness, delivering her story in the form of the best selling book, shake, rattle and roll with it and living and laughing with Parkinson’s. She’s seen her life become a world of public speaking and media interviews as the world looks to be informed about something bad can happen to all of us. She’s a humour writer, author, public speaker and former newspaper columnist and regular contributor to the Huffington Post. And now A guest on Join Up Dots too. So what was it that she found in herself that pulled herself out of the dark and despair? And what advice would you give to the listeners who are family members dealing with this on a daily basis? Well, let’s find out as we bring on to the show to start Join Up Dots with the one and only Vikki Claflin. How are you, Vicki?
Vikki Claflin [2:19]
No, I’m doing well. David, thank you for having me. It is a lovely to have you on.
David Ralph [2:23]
I’m looking at a picture of you at the moment. And it’s very pink with very bright kind of vibrant, I would say why but that makes it sound old. It’s not it’s very sort of trendy kind of coloured hair. Is that the Vikki, that we’ve got in front of us now is that it’s over us a lady that changes your hair all the time.
Vikki Claflin [2:41]
No, that’s me. That’s what I look like.
David Ralph [2:45]
So is that always your image because you are a very glamorous lady. You can see it there’s kind of it looks kind of airbrushed and I’m cutting to the chase here, but I’m trying to flatter you, Vikki.
Vikki Claflin [2:58]
Well, thank you. Yes. That is a product of, you know, chop shop.
David Ralph [3:03]
Vikki Claflin [3:04]
It’s a little glassed over I’m not quite that glam all the time.
David Ralph [3:08]
When it looks pretty good from where I’m sitting. It really does. So whereabouts are you sitting? What Where’s home for Vicki?
Vikki Claflin [3:17]
Hood River, Oregon. I’m on the west coast.
David Ralph [3:20]
And what’s life out there for people that don’t know Oregon? Is it as a mountain east side? Is it countries its city? What do you go to Oregon?
Vikki Claflin [3:28]
Well, Oregon is a lot of greens, a lot of rain. My particular town is quite small 5000 people but we have we’re at the base of a mountain and on the side of a river so we snow ski and when surf on the same day, lots of hiking, biking, very eco. It’s pretty it’s a real pretty little town.
David Ralph [3:47]
And have you always lived there? Is this your home or choice?
Vikki Claflin [3:52]
Well, I live I moved here when I was four, but I left for 20 years after I graduated college and then I came back. Everybody returns home, you know
David Ralph [4:00]
But I do. I did the same thing. I lived in my town for 25 years and then I moved away. And then when I met my partner, we moved back to the town that I grew up in. Why? I don’t know because it’s a pretty boring town. But you do it. It’s homing, isn’t it? It’s like, we’re like,
Vikki Claflin [4:19]
we’re coming home to roost. Absolutely.
David Ralph [4:22]
And do you have children? Do you have a family around you? Is there hundreds of you these are a few
Vikki Claflin [4:30]
feels like it at Christmas. My I have a son in the military. He’s in Florida right now with wife and grandkids. And then my husband’s parents and my parents both live here in Hood River. And
David Ralph [4:41]
what what was a typical day just to sort of frame it before we start talking about your life because obviously, there’s there’s two sides to life. There’s the life before. You’ve got the diagnosis of Parkinson’s and very much to live afterwards and he does seem in many ways from reading about you almost a 360 but is your life that much different? From the first part of the second path,
Vikki Claflin [5:03]
um, yeah, it is David. It’s it. My mother had Parkinson’s, so I saw her I watched her for 25 years and she’s still going strong but so I had a bit of an idea of how consuming it can get something like Parkinson’s, you never really stop knowing you have it because it’s the symptoms. So before Parkinson’s, I was always the strong one. We had six kids, and I was always the one that never had allergies never got sick. I was the strong one that carried all the groceries and even with my brothers, and I, I really felt invincible. So that’s probably the biggest change is that I’m not invincible. Now I got Parkinson’s and so it’s, I would have never thought it would be me. That got it. I mean, I’ve got sisters that are allergic to everything. And thinking, why me but you know, everybody does that. He will eat the healthy ones, isn’t
David Ralph [5:58]
it because I never get it. I’ll be honest with you, Becky, I’m one of those people that is never ill but I’ve always got something to moan about. I’ve always got an ache or a pain or whatever. So I say to my wife, I’m never here when she said no, you’re always ill. Okay, well,
Unknown Speaker [6:11]
David Ralph [6:12]
was the last time I was ill? What about us morning when he was Oh, no, that doesn’t count. That’s not ill. So well. You had nothing.
Vikki Claflin [6:20]
Yeah. You all to us is people like us, David is is Parkinson’s or something. I mean, when we say we don’t get ill, we don’t get headaches. We don’t get anything you could quantify. You know, that’s not the same thing as just being anxious or, you know, whatever and upset tummy. But no, I never did. I never was never sick. I didn’t get the flu I didn’t get and I never got flu shots. It’s just I just thought would never happen to me.
David Ralph [6:46]
So so let’s stop talking about it. And with Join Up Dots. We will jump back and forth. That’s what we do. But obviously, the reason that you’re on the show is to show us back there is a life after Parkinson’s and for the people out there that arriver diagnosed with it or that they don’t even know that they can get it, you’re showing that there is a bright side to it. Is it? Because I don’t know enough about it? I’ll be honest. But the fact that your mother got it and you’ve got it, is that just a fluke or is it genetic?
Vikki Claflin [7:16]
Well, medical science has long stated that it’s not hereditary, but there that it’s hard to dispute the numbers. So many people with Parkinson’s have parents and grandparents who have it that I’m not sure that they can continue to say that much longer. I mean, my grandmother had it, but my mother had it now I haven’t. So they tell me it’s not hereditary. I have a little bit of a problem with that. But having said that, it doesn’t really matter when it happens to you. Oh, well.
David Ralph [7:43]
Well, I can see that and when it did happen to you and you’ve got that diagnosis. Tell us about that. How did you lead up to going and getting that diagnosis? were you feeling unwell, will you will tell us what happened?
Vikki Claflin [7:57]
Well, I’m sort of what you call non complaint. And about doctors because I know that they’re going to tell me something that I don’t want to hear half the time. But I had tremors in my left hand for two years prior to going in because I knew what they were going to say. And I just didn’t want to hear it. And I thought I could will it away or, or it was going to go away on its own and but it was getting really obvious it was progressing, because that’s what Parkinson’s does. And it just got to the point where my husband and my family did kind of a medical intervention and said, You’re going because we need to know. So kicking and screaming against my will. I went in and found out what I already knew. So I was a slow diagnosis because I never went in to see anybody.
David Ralph [8:41]
And how do you get diagnosed? Did they do tests? Or did they just look at you? How do they actually know that you haven’t just got a trap nerve or something? But, but
Vikki Claflin [8:54]
that’s an interesting question, David, because there isn’t really a diagnosis for Parkinson’s. What they do is they test you for everything else, like essential tremors or ms or Lou Gehrig’s. And a lot of these diseases they test you for fatal or Parkinson’s is not. So you get to this weird place where you’re going please God please God just let it be Parkinson’s. I don’t want to have anything else because Parkinson’s won’t kill you. So I’m laying in MRI to going in going on some stuff and I’m thinking please God let this be Parkinson’s. So when she finally told me I Parkinson’s I’m going up. My doctor looked at me like I was crazy that it’s definitely the one that doesn’t kill you. But But did you sense the irony about that
David Ralph [9:33]
you spent two years not wanting to be diagnosed because you knew what you got. And then when you got it you was going up does does that seem strange to you? Even though
Vikki Claflin [9:43]
that’s one of the things that makes this disease goofy. It’s just it’s it does. You know, it changes you. There’s no way it can’t. And you know, when you get your diagnosis, most people are diagnosed in their 60s early to mid 60s and most of them are men. But because it’s not a fatal disease you’re going to live with it for 20 or 30 years. So you have to find a way to do that that isn’t going to cost you your marriage and your family and all your friends.
David Ralph [10:11]
But but but should should it should it do that because is it not something now that with medication that you can keep the tremors under control?
Vikki Claflin [10:20]
Well, it’s not the disease I think that drives people away. It’s your attitude about it. You know, when people I I’ve met people with chronic illnesses, including Parkinson’s, but other ones that are just so unhappy and so angry about it, that they’re just miserable people, and maybe they weren’t always that way, but they have been you know, I’ve a friend of mines father had a stroke and he’s just awful. He every day he gets up and he’s angry at the universe because he had this stroke and that, that’ll cost you
David Ralph [10:49]
when we’re wounded. And my sort of knowledge and all Parkinson’s is probably like many people with Michael J. Fox. And because when we were growing up Michael J. Fox was such a big star. And for many of us in our 40s, being sort of 1415 when his films were at the peak when he was part of our lives, so we were shocked when he had, and especially because he had this sort of young onset version of it, I believe. And so my knowledge of it is very much linked to him. And I remember reading his book, a lucky man, where he actually says, and I think out of all the biographies I’ve read, I think that’s one of the greatest ones that I had read because it was so brutally open and honest. And he was doing a TV programme in Canada. And I remember reading this and he almost thinks that it was to do with chemicals in the paint or something because of the cost. Three out of 10 have it as well of that time. And have you heard this? Is this something that he felt at the time and it’s been proved wrong, or is it likely but this can be brought on by sort of outside environment
Vikki Claflin [12:00]
Absolutely, David there. I live in a town of apple and fruit orchards. And it’s a beautiful, beautiful valley. But when I grew up, the the sprayers that went over that would spray the fruit so that the bugs wouldn’t get him would fly six feet over your head. And they just lay down these blankets and they’ve proven that the small towns that have their farming or orchard in towns have a much greater incidence of Parkinson’s. So there’s obviously a connection there. They just don’t know which toxins it is and why some people and not everybody and you know, why did I get it? My five brothers and sisters did that. So it’s, they’re thinking maybe it’s like the cancer gene, you may you may all be predisposed, but some of you more so than others or something. So, all things being equal, one person will get it but we have a lot higher incidence in these towns that use these chemical sprays 30 years ago.
David Ralph [12:51]
is amazing, though, isn’t it? But these kind of things can go on and statistically, they get to a point of being pretty certain But in many ways, the authorities will sort of dismiss it because No, he’s not proven but but you think it’s a pretty much a given. You can’t nail it down, but you think there’s a good chance that he is to do with the chemicals in your town?
Vikki Claflin [13:14]
Yo, absolutely. I mean, there’s a reason I quit doing all that, because they were people were getting cancers and, and Parkinson’s and all kinds of crazy funky diseases. And I mean, when the government then pulls those products and said, You can’t use them anymore. There’s a reason they may or may not want to admit it, but there’s a reason.
David Ralph [13:33]
And does that make you angry? When when you look back on that? Did you sort of feel politically angry or do you just feel sort of resigned by Hey, it’s happened?
Vikki Claflin [13:43]
Yeah, I think you know, at that time, they didn’t know I mean, there were days when we dumped our garbage is in the river. I mean, that doesn’t make those people bad people they didn’t know at the time it just so I think it’s, it’s something that that would have been nice to know 20 years before I read it. Hush, they didn’t end. And they sprayed the whole valley that with it, and they’ve been doing it for generations.
David Ralph [14:06]
So So if we go back to that diagnosis, spin, but don’t to give you the diagnosis, and you get to the point where you’re going up, thank God for this. When you walk out and you go to your husband and your family and I imagine that you like all of us, but you’d have a conference with them and say, Look, this is what’s happened. This is what’s going it’s going to be like, was their soul of what I shocked or were they pretty certain anyway, they already got that that belief in their head that they were gonna have to deal with a soul help you deal with this.
Vikki Claflin [14:40]
They were because my mother had it. And the symptoms were I mean, I have exactly the symptoms she had. So mom knew right out of the gate that that’s what that was but then you know, she didn’t want to admit it either. Because it’s hard for a mother thinks she gave her kids something. Sorry. But and the rest of my family needs The only one I didn’t want to tell was my son at that time was being deployed to Iraq. So I swore everybody to secrecy and not that he didn’t suspect, but he didn’t know. And I didn’t want him going to Iraq worried about his mother. So we sort of agreed that nobody was going to mention the Parkinson’s word until he got on the plane.
David Ralph [15:17]
And how does he felt that when when he when he got back from Iraq, shimmies got back from Iraq? Because he’s Florida? He’s in Florida. So, um, did he was he resentful that you kept it from him? Did he say, Mom, you should have told me how did he feel?
Vikki Claflin [15:31]
No, he sort of chuckled and said you had to know I knew and I said, Well, I know but, and he said he appreciated the sentiment behind it. But you know, he knew so he said I still worried about you, but it didn’t. You know, I was in Iraq, there was nothing I could do and he knew I wasn’t going to die. So he was just said I just thought I’d address it when we got back when he said next time Tell me so I can be there.
David Ralph [15:56]
So so for the listeners out there who might have a few badly might have this or it’s their family have had this give us a clue about what the symptoms can be obviously we know where tremors but does it just start in the hands could could could you have twitchy feet out? Where’s it come from?
Vikki Claflin [16:15]
You get all kinds of shake, rattle and roll with this
funky things. The left hand tremor is the one that everybody sort of No, it’s because there’s really not much other reason to have that. And usually it starts like Michael J. Fox said it his, his fingers were just twitching and that I sort of got that and it would only happen when I was cold or some sort of emotional thing was happening. I was excited or angry or you know, any adrenaline rush and my fingers would start twitching and I thought well That’s odd. And then it got to be my hand and then I got to be my arm. Other people, interestingly enough, don’t get tremors but they’ll get a real awkward gate. They walk kind of slow and just they’re just about a half a click away. A normal walk. That’s probably the second biggest, biggest thing that you see it also affects your balance and your coordination, which is great for blog posts. I’ve got a lot of hilarious stories about that. But
David Ralph [17:11]
we’re going to touch on those later. Yeah, I’m building up to both. So I didn’t, I didn’t realise that so so somebody who just might be walking a little bit slower, but hasn’t got the shakes and stuff could actually have Parkinson’s as well.
Vikki Claflin [17:25]
Yes, it’s kind of a little short out between your brain and the rest of your body. It’s like you’ll you’ll want to do something and you know, you know how to do it but your body doesn’t go that direction. Yeah, body doesn’t takes a split second longer to do something that you might have otherwise done quickly.
David Ralph [17:42]
And that’s quite Liverpool with isn’t it? Really, I imagine.
Vikki Claflin [17:46]
Yeah, it’s not Parkinson’s is totally livable until you get maybe to the advanced stages, but even then you just make accommodations and now they’ve got you know, better treatments for advanced stage Parkinson’s, but all of Parkinson’s is about That you just have to figure out how to get through your day happily and joyfully accomplishing what you want to accomplish while you shake. Because the medication is great for taking down the symptoms, but it doesn’t take them away.
David Ralph [18:13]
I remember reading the book again, and I think we’re going to touch on Michael J. Fox, because there was a sort of connection with my knowledge and and your story approvers. But I’m a member he, he’s used to do I’m not family ties. What was that Spin City when he was when he was the political guy. And for years, he was very, very good at hiding his symptoms. And when you watch the programme back now, he’s always jumping on a chair sitting down getting up and he’s like moving over time, which obviously you don’t realise when you’re watching it. But I remember in the book, he was saying that he went to see the hole in cancer, and he decided that he wasn’t going to take his medication. And he obviously started shaking very badly, but he said it was the start of him. Really Coming to terms with it, but he wasn’t having to hide. He was just looking forward to enjoying the show. Have you gone through that as well? Have you wanted to hide the symptoms? Or did you just sort of let it take its course?
Vikki Claflin [19:14]
No, I had symptoms for a long time. I remember I went to a job interview and like I say, whenever I get any kind of adrenaline rush, I start shaking like cracked out seal. So I went to this job interview and I sat on my hands the whole time, because they My hands were shaking so bad that I thought this guy’s going to think I’m an idiot. So I learned to sit on my hands, put my hand in my pocket, leaned up against the wall, you know, so that I could study that hand. So the people didn’t see it because I didn’t want to be that girl. I didn’t want people looking at me at this totally consumed with. She’s got Parkinson’s. It’s sometimes you just don’t want to have Parkinson’s for that particular moment in time. So every park in this person I know has huge compensatory skills. We learn how to hide it.
David Ralph [20:00]
Which is what he did. He used to lean on balls and so when you was watching that, did you know that you had Parkinson’s? What was that programme around when you was sort of diagnosed or was that afterwards?
Vikki Claflin [20:13]
No, that was his broke Michael J. Fox’s programme. Yeah, that’s
right. Yeah. The movie or his than his new recent show?
David Ralph [20:21]
Oh no did the Spin City when he was hiding he’s um symptoms for many years
Vikki Claflin [20:25]
and that was way before I had part was that diagnosed with Parkinson’s because he was diagnosed early onset, which is unusual. And I wasn’t diagnosed till I was 50.
David Ralph [20:34]
And he’s so many different strains of it as well then he’s got one I mean, obviously, you’re talking about the the slow walking one. I am a new one on a on a different strains. Would people say yes, you’ve got this version of Parkinson’s. You’ve got that version of Parkinson’s? I don’t know.
Vikki Claflin [20:51]
Yeah, they don’t know enough about it. And that’s unfortunately what freaks people out when they get it. It’s it’s such an unknown disease. It’s diagnosed kind of by default. They don’t know what causes it. They don’t know how to cure it. medication is kind of a little bit of a crapshoot. So it’s like, there’s so much unknown about it that they can’t pinpoint. Everybody progresses at a different rate. So it’s, I mean, all they know for sure is that it’s going to affect balance, coordination, flexibility, and movement. It’s a movement disorder as progressive and incurable. So there, but that’s about where they’re at right now. They know what it what it is, and they just don’t know what it is, is a million dollar
David Ralph [21:33]
question. I’m struggling to decide whether I should ask this, but I’m going to ask it anyway. Now Bet Your Life has turned round in such a positive way. And obviously you got the best selling book out and you’re doing public speaking and in many ways, it sounds like a fun life and it’s one that sort of plays to your strengths because you’re very outgoing person. Do you sort of look back to your first stage of your life and go was a great life and I wouldn’t want the Parkinson’s or do you look at it now and go well, actually, that was part of my, my journey here and I’m glad for it.
Vikki Claflin [22:10]
door number two,
you know, no, I think any if you asked a Parkinson’s patient if you can wave a magic wand and make it go away with you, absolutely. But I don’t think that that’s what I was supposed to do. I mean, I’ve always been a writer, I just didn’t know that this was what I was going to write about. So it’s in that respect. It’s been it’s been a gift. I know that Michael J. Fox has repeatedly quoted that he thinks his life was meant to have Parkinson’s, and then he’s actually glad he did because it changed his outlook on things. Yeah. And I admire that. Quite honestly, if you would take mine away. I’d say fine, that’d be great. But I don’t think about that because you can’t. So to me, that’s just that’s an over here. Thought. And I’m not I don’t waste any time on that because I can’t there’s nobody’s going to take it away.
David Ralph [22:59]
But you know, d d have Dog Days. So you did have come that that took time to come to terms with it. How long did that period last from from the moment of diagnosis to you going well, hey, I’ve got to deal with this and just let’s move on.
Vikki Claflin [23:14]
Yeah, I’m, I’m kind of a goofy person Anyway, I’m somewhat irreverent, you know, usually at the most inopportune times, of course. And I tend to find the comedy and everything. So it wasn’t very long. I, I don’t want to be depressed, I don’t want to be angry. And I’ve always, always felt that way. That’s not a Parkinson’s thing. So it was really just a matter of weeks. And I said, this is because you know, you pick up two in the morning think, why me? What did I do? Did I cause it? Am I being punished, you know, all the things that go to people’s heads? And then I woke up one day and said, This is stupid. Why am I doing nobody has answers to these questions, and there’s nothing they’re going to do about it. So suck it up. And it’s, you know, when I was growing up, my mother always used to say, and when all the kids would have a crisis because there was so many of us, somebody was always Having one and she would say you’ve got 24 hours. feel sorry for yourself cry, have ice cream, do whatever you want, but in 24 hours you’re done. So it’s just kind of that’s the way we are. And when it was time for me to stop feeling sorry for myself I did
David Ralph [24:16]
is interesting no value, but you put something bad. I wouldn’t wish on anyone. But you’re saying it’s a gift, which is a magical mindset to have. But I have worked with people that are able bodied, they’ve got nothing wrong with them. But I moan all the time. And then the most miserable people you’ve ever worked with. And you can’t have a wife You got to moan about Did you see that? Now when you sort of walking around when you’re talking to people, and they’re moaning and groaning Did you feel like going, come on, pull yourself together? What have you got? That’s wrong with you?
Vikki Claflin [24:48]
I get I do that to this day. My husband always cringes, but somebody will come up to me and say, Oh, you know, I’ve got allergies and my nose is running and this anything and I said well, I’ve got Parkinson’s, you’re a
I’m sorry, what did
David Ralph [25:03]
I say to that? Because that’s that’s one of those kind of shocking statements, isn’t it? I can imagine your husband wants to fall into the ground.
Vikki Claflin [25:11]
Yeah, usually they’ll laugh because it kind of instantly puts it in perspective. You know, it’s like come on people. So and you know, and the other thing is as much as possible I don’t have those people in my life I reach you know, I’m almost 60 years old, I reached the point where I get fit. And if somebody is going to consistently be unhappy, they’re not going to be in my circle. Because I can’t afford those people I can’t they you know, when you put a happy person and a sad person together, you don’t end up with two happy people. You end up with two sad people. I don’t know why that is but it is. So I just don’t have those people in my circle.
David Ralph [25:44]
It’s true as you say that i i watch these. Well, I don’t watch them. I saw know about them. These reality shows and we have one over in the United Kingdom. I don’t know if you have it. called. I’m a celebrity. Get me out of here and they take these celebrities and they stick them in the jungle and they So basically starve them for three weeks and make them do these horrible things and I have to eat disgusting stuff and I have to lay in a bathtub full of rats and snakes and God knows well, and you just generally see that the the undercurrent turns negative they start and they’re all happy and it’s like a holiday and little by little because a tiredness occurs, they start biting each other. And I think it’s a common trait as you say, you you get enough negative people in one vicinity, the world turns negative and it’s it’s a shame, isn’t it? Because we’re only on this planet once. Why can’t we’ll look at it a different way and go, come on, guys, come on, I don’t want to be negative but you get sucked into it and you do become negative.
Vikki Claflin [26:45]
That’s been my experience. That’s why I’m so picky about the people I spend time with is that’s one of the things that allows me to stay as positive as I am. I’m surrounded by positive, happy loving people. And they don’t you know, and these are people that I can just have Parkinson’s around and they Don’t, it doesn’t matter. It’s like Michael J. Fox, who concert you know, if I’m shaking that day badly or my brain shorting out, and I forget a word like couch, because you do that. It’s, I don’t, I’m not embarrassed, you know, they’ll laugh or make fun of me or, or poke stick or whatever. And then we all move on. And the people that are in my inner world know that they can laugh at this. It’s all I know, because I know their intent. their intent is not to be mean, their intent is to be silly and Goofy, and I like that.
David Ralph [27:28]
But let’s play a speech that sort of emphasises how life can throw things at you. And this is the this is the classic speech from rocky six.
Steve Jobs [27:37]
You, me or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit. And keep moving forward, how much you can take it, keep moving forward. That’s how winning is done.
Unknown Speaker [27:54]
Now, when you look at yourself, I love it.
David Ralph [27:56]
Yeah, and I think it works well in on this this episode. Were you surprised at how much you can take? As Rocky was saying, when you look at it? Does it surprise you that you have turned it around so magnificently?
Vikki Claflin [28:12]
A little bit every now and then I’ll think, you know, I might, because I’ve got I’ve had really, really good reviews from the presentations and the book and all that kind of stuff, which has been really satisfying for me. But one woman emailed me and said, You don’t understand how serious this is. You’re, you’re, you’re being too flippant. And I thought, No, I really do understand how serious this is. My mother has it and I have it. I mean, I’m living it. I know exactly how serious it is. But I can’t you just reach a point hopefully quickly, where you have to push forward. Otherwise, you’re going to stay in that that desperate, scared place for years on end. I mean, I can’t imagine choosing to live like that. That’s, that’s crazy to me.
David Ralph [28:57]
But But where’d you get that strength from what Why Why is Vicki so different from so many other people that will, you know, going back into the corporate world again, which is my background will play the victim mode every single day to have a story to tell at a coffee machine, they want to tell us how rubbish their life is and how their boyfriends are dreadful and all that kind of stuff. What makes Vicki different when you could be that person? You’ve got the right Vicki to be miserable and say, why me, but you don’t?
Vikki Claflin [29:32]
Well, David, I, you know, my mother says, I’ve been like this all my life. She said, even when I was a little girl it was when things weren’t going my way I just push through it. I mean, it’s, she said, You know, I mean, she doesn’t remember it at a time anytime when I was depressed or defiant child or, you know, unhappy. I wasn’t theatrical in high school where I threw myself across the bed of time I broke up with a boy, it just like okay, if you don’t want to be with me, see ya. So Resilience i think is always been there the choice to to find the funny in it is my choice.
David Ralph [30:06]
And so the title of your book, shake, rattle and roll with it. That is generally you when you do roll with it, yes. Because because that’s a brilliant title, isn’t it? And to be honest, I wrote that down. But I didn’t actually read it properly until the introduction. He didn’t register with me somehow that shake, rattle and roll with it that that’s quite a powerful statement.
Vikki Claflin [30:28]
Thank you. Thank you. Actually, I would like to take credit for that title. But my agent did that. And she just as soon as she said it, she blurted out, because we were standing there, sitting there banding back all kinds of choices, and she just blurted that out, and we both looked at each other and said, that’s perfect, is absolutely perfect.
David Ralph [30:43]
Yeah, it’s perfect. And it gives you a branding for your persona and your business, doesn’t it? You when you see that and you see the image that I’m looking at with the vibrant pink and stuff. It comes together. It’s very strong, isn’t it?
Vikki Claflin [30:59]
Thank you. Yes, it is. And it was intended to be that I love the brilliant colours. I wanted it to be tropical and happy and pink and it just glossy white. I love this book I it’s available on Kindle. But I always tell people don’t get the Kindle version because it’s not pretty. It’s get the book. The book is pray. When when somebody said to you,
David Ralph [31:21]
oh, maybe you came up with the idea? Did you come up with the idea? Or did somebody say, look, you got to start writing this down?
Vikki Claflin [31:29]
Yes, actually, my editor did. She’s a really good friend of mine. And she does that for a living. And we went out to lunch one day, and she said, You know, I’m reading a few of these posts on your blog. Why don’t you make a book out of this? And I thought, Oh, my goodness. I mean, who’s gonna read it? She said, Well, let me tell you who’s gonna read it. And so we explored the idea four months before I actually it became a book because I didn’t know if I had enough material. I didn’t know people would take me seriously. I not not that the book is serious. Of course, it’s not but it They would take me as an author seriously, I think I had a message that made any difference, but it just kind of couldn’t help itself. I just kept writing and writing and writing and one day she called me and said, You have enough material for book. Let’s do it.
David Ralph [32:12]
So So did you. You obviously suffered from the imposter syndrome of unknown writer. I didn’t really write when I was at school and it was going to take me seriously. I’m not Shakespeare. I’m not john Grisham. But everybody has that don’t know when when they first start. I hear that time and time again. One of the themes that comes through on the show from all the successful people over movers and shakers is at the beginning, somebody has a belief in boom, but they don’t have to believe in themselves. He seems a strange way of operating.
Vikki Claflin [32:41]
It is you know, David and I see it in every author I know. And I’m I live it all the time. I’m doing a presentation to a huge group of Parkinson’s. It’s a big Parkinson’s Association. They’ll probably several hundred people there and there’s four speakers. Three of them are neurologists at Oregon Health Sciences. University and then there’s me. I said in my eyes when I feel like an idiot here, I’m going to stand up and say, well, thank you doctor, doctor, doctor, guess what I wrote a book. Good for you is waiting. So I’m intimidated because I’m thinking why am I on this roster, but I’m the last speaker of the of the morning show and they just want to lighten it up I guess. And so I’m just going to do my thing. I don’t know how well it will be received but
Unknown Speaker [33:27]
want to give a shot,
David Ralph [33:28]
it will be received really well because you are not getting away from it. You’re authentic. You’re not playing to anything. And I have a lady who was on the show, or 20 episodes ago or whatever. And she is now the voice for IBS bowel syndrome in in the United Kingdom. And she said that she had to speak and she realised that she was the only one using the word fault and all the doctors were using kind of flatulence and all these kind of weird Yeah, and afterwards she saw said to the person Oh, I’m so so sorry about that I realised that I was the only one using that word. And the lady said, that’s why we want you because you speak and you’re authentic to yourself. And that’s what they’re looking at you with the greatest respect doctors know best staff, but they’re not living with it. And you are living with it on you and that’s that’s power and I bet that audience sitting there will go Yeah, that person was all right that person was over that woman with that with a bright white hair. She she’s she was the one I remember because she was totally authentic and she was giving us the information as we would want to hear it.
Vikki Claflin [34:39]
All thank you for that, that I’m gonna remember that because I it’s coming up and I just decided I’m jumping in with both feet and they like me,
David Ralph [34:48]
so So are you scared at the speech is is this a bigger ball game than you’ve been at before?
Vikki Claflin [34:55]
No, I’ve been a public speaker for 30 years. David, I’m public speaking does not make nervous I get an adrenaline rush, I get a real high from it. But because I know that I can do that part that the public speaking part I’ve got down because I’ve just done it for so long. But speaking to this particular group in that particular setting is a little intimidating for me. Because I feel like I’m at at some conference with four neurologists or something and like, why am I here? But I’m just going to do what I do, and see what happens. But what when I read my book, and well, yeah, if I have
David Ralph [35:28]
Yeah, but the thing about public speaking is I always say to people is, anyone can get up and speak in public. Yes, it might be scary. But if you’ve got your authentic, unique story, which you have, that makes public speaking so much more powerful, you’re not just saying words, because you read them from a book, you’re saying it from your own experience, and in many ways, that that means that you outscore those doctors, you shouldn’t be scared at all.
Vikki Claflin [35:57]
Yeah, I’m looking forward to it. Actually. I think it’s gonna be really fun and I think it will just add another layer of, of experience to me and it’ll it’ll be a new experience for me to speak to that kind of a crowd and and I’m, I am looking forward to it I’m a little bit nervous but it’s done I wouldn’t call it off for the world I mean, I’m I’m going to go I’m gonna have fun and they wouldn’t have asked me if they didn’t think I could do it. So yeah, yeah, and like I said, the public speaking part isn’t the scary part. It’s just the the credentialing part is just just a tiny bit intimidating for me but we’re going and I’m in
David Ralph [36:34]
good on you. Good on you. So give give us some of the funnies when I’ve been building up to this because I don’t want to go straight to the phonies but I’m fascinated to know what the living and laughing with Parkinson’s is. Is it funny things on a daily basis? Is it funny things that happen once in a blue moon? How does it come about that to you? You think it’s a funny thing?
Vikki Claflin [36:55]
Well, somewhere in the middle, I have a lot of the the books got like 30 stories and They’re a couple of kind of poignant ones but most of them are silly and it’s the books divided into three parts there’s the first couple of months after so after my diagnosis then there’s stories about how funny it is and silly it is and then there’s lessons learned and that kind of stuff so it’s sometimes just goofy things happen and my husband said I can always tell by that look on your face because it’s that I’m going to go write this down look and I you just remain open to those things and they will present themselves I mean, one night, we went out on a date because we had been out for a long time and and we got all dressed up and it was supposed to be you know, date night really romantic and whatever. And we ended up at a taco truck coming home going bed early because I was exhausted and worn off and nothing went like it was supposed to go. And then there was the time I decided to learn to pole dance because I figure I’ll be too shaky to do it in five years. disaster, but it was hilarious. I mean, I landed on top of my husband and the neighbours were seeing watching
David Ralph [37:58]
what was he doing at the bottom The power that that is killing
Vikki Claflin [38:04]
you. He was on the couch I flew off the pole and landed on my husband
David Ralph [38:10]
on the floor.
Vikki Claflin [38:12]
No, he was on the couch. So I went airborne and landed on top of him. And when I got up there was half a dozen people outside our window all clapping and laughing and Kenny thought I was supposed to that was the way it was supposed to go. And he wanted me to again.
David Ralph [38:27]
Outside looking through your window, I don’t see this work.
Vikki Claflin [38:30]
Well, they were probably figured why was I doing it in front of a window. I never thought about the window. It’s just, it was just goofy. You know? I mean, I’ve gotten into all kinds of all kinds of pickles with this. One of the things that it does is it decreases your flexibility. So I can’t back up my car. Because I can’t turn around look behind me and cause all kinds of disasters. I mean, because I you use those little side mirrors, but those things are really misleading.
David Ralph [38:57]
So you still try to you
Vikki Claflin [38:59]
Oh yeah. I just drive forward more than I then I’m back up.
David Ralph [39:07]
But when obviously you’re dealing with the shakes and stuff, did you take tablets to come the shakes? Or can you drive with the full full shaking? rattling growling going on?
Vikki Claflin [39:17]
Yeah, I can I can drive with the full shake. I can’t. I used to. I had to give up my best back because I love my little bestman I use a scooter all over town but my handshake too much to hold the handlebars steady. So it’s probably not terribly say I’m wobbling all over the road. I got pulled over by the police once for DUI check. And I said like, No, I’m not drunk. I have Parkinson’s. So I showed him my medications. And I was good to go. But he said, you know, you really can’t do this anymore. And I said, Yeah, that’s true. So we sold my mask, but oh, I miss it. But you make allowances. No. I mean, anytime something like this happens, you’re going to find things that you can’t do anymore. And so you know, what I tell people is then find something else. There’s not the three things That you like to do are not the only three things on the planet. It just means you’re gonna have to find somebody else.
David Ralph [40:05]
But like, I don’t know, if you love doing something and it gets taken away from you. That’s, that’s hard in anyone’s life.
Vikki Claflin [40:13]
When I met a woman that has been a tennis player all her life, she’s not professional or anything, but she loves it plays all the time. She can’t play because she doesn’t have the coordination. And when she throws the ball up to serve it, it goes to Texas. So she said, I can’t do this. And I said, well then do something else. I mean, there’s a million things out there to experience and sometimes, if we don’t get cut off from what we’ve always done, we never experienced those things. So in that respect, it is a gift, it forces you to get out of your comfort zone and try something new.
David Ralph [40:43]
I think that’s an absolute key point. And it’s a key point to older shows that so many people get caught in a life of, I suppose lack of awareness of possibilities because it’s just their life. And when they get a chance to start looking around and we always talk about it all time you look on the internet, and you see people living lives and earning incomes in the most bizarre way, and you kind of think, how are they doing that, that looks really fun and they’re earning an income that can’t be possible. Surely you’ve got to go to a job, you got to go to an office, that’s how you earn a living, but you just can’t see it until you become aware. So when something is taken away from you, and usually say, try and do something else, that’s probably that might find stuff that they liked even better than playing tennis and hitting a ball to Texas.
Vikki Claflin [41:30]
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you just you never know until people get we get content and we get in our routines and they’re, they’re comfortable. We’re happy that you know, we’re not I hate that expression in a rut, because that makes it sound like you’re doing boring things every day. It’s not it’s a routine and you like it and you’re happy and happy people aren’t compelled to change. So but when you get into position where you can’t do something anymore, and you get a little pissy about it, then you’re going to find something else. And I think that’s when possibility start to open up when you start Looking for new things to learn a new, new ideas, new new skills?
David Ralph [42:06]
Well, I agree with that. But I also disagree as well, because I think that happy people won’t change but I’m happy people don’t change either. And you see it time and time again people in in rubbishy situations and jobs that quite frankly, looking at from the outsider’s point of view, you think, why are you doing that? Why are you going to a job that you hate? But they do they do it time and time again, just because I don’t know they find themselves. Is it a wrap? Or is it that they haven’t got that belief that they can go out and do something else? But they will put up with that rubbish situation? Don’t you find that?
Vikki Claflin [42:40]
I do. And those are the people I don’t hang out with. That sounds terrible, but it’s just, I just, if I come to the conclusion that somebody is is decided to have decided to be unhappy, and decided to be miserable, and that’s their happy place. That’s their secure places when they’re a bit And moaning and crying and weyland and I’m going to systematically and gently move them out of out of the inner circle and say, you’re going to have to go over there and do this because I can’t have this in my world. I just can’t.
David Ralph [43:12]
Do you say that to their face?
Vikki Claflin [43:16]
I have, you know, and just and gently and not am not being not trying to be judgmental or arrogant or any of those things. I’m just saying, you know, I, I have to watch out for me, one of the things that will accelerate Parkinson’s is stress. And you get when you’ve got a disease that is exacerbated by stress, you get really protective of what you let into your life. Because when I’m stressed out, I shake like crazy I can’t stop it. I get start getting foot cramps, I start getting all sorts of other funky symptoms. And I just have to say to these people, you aren’t good for me. I can’t do this with you. So and you know, occasionally it’s been a family member, which has been interesting, but no, it happens. And when you
David Ralph [43:58]
are stressed and you really, really show you Is it simply a case of you just calm down? Or? Or did you actually have to consciously do something to stop the tremors?
Vikki Claflin [44:09]
Well, I think you remove the source of the stress if at all humanly possible. And then yeah, I would I go and I sit in the corner and I breathe, and I just try to clear my mind and get rid of all that. Whatever it is, I’m feeling that frustration or that anger or whatever. And then and, you know, really, you sort of recenter yourself. I mean, I think a lot of happiness. It’s a decision. It’s, it’s not just something that Oh, I’m just such a happy person all the time. Because that’s how I am. It’s a decision that you make in an in the face of adversity where you say, I’m not going to succumb to this, I’m not giving into this. I am basically a happy person and I’m going to be happy person, even with this. So it has to start from somewhere and it isn’t always just organic. A lot of times you have to create that scenario. And part of that is taking stress out of your life, even if it’s a person.
David Ralph [44:59]
So, just to Sort of framed me before we play the Steve Jobs speech, which is the theme of the show you at your worst well know at your best. Is it easy to say drink a glass of water? Or is that difficult? What level of shakes are you dealing with on a daily basis?
Vikki Claflin [45:16]
And not if not pronounced, and especially by medicated people have said to me, Well, you don’t even really shake. Well, that’s true because I’m medicated and I’m in my first 10 years. It my mother had the sort of the same level of Parkinson’s for the first 20 years. It didn’t really progress much. And then when it started to progress in her 22nd 23rd year, it progressed much more rapidly because she’s course you know, at Hmm, but, you know, I don’t, I don’t see every now and then one of the one of the symptoms of Parkinson’s is called dyskinesia. It’s basically a foot cramps up and you can’t put weight on it. And sometimes when I get that, I mean, that’ll take me down to the knees. I can’t you have to hop around on one foot. It’s crazy. For 45 minutes, it takes almost an hour to go away. That’s Greenlee visible, I mean, there’s no there’s nothing I can do about it when it happens, it’s the medication is too late by then. So you know, when that happens, it’s kind of hanging out there for the whole world to see. But otherwise, I my symptoms are not real severe at this point.
David Ralph [46:16]
And then does it scare you obvious, obviously, you’re dealing with it and you’re being so positive. And I’m not going to use the word brave, because that’s not the right word. But you’re you’re really making a go of it. Does it scare you? Because I tell you where I’m getting this from. I saw an interview with Billy Connolly and Billy Connolly’s just been diagnosed a comedian with Parkinson’s. And he said, he keeps on getting all these emails, saying, oh, would you speak about this? Would you speak about your your condition and stuff? And he said, No, I don’t. I’m not going to speak about it because I don’t want to think about it. I just want to get on with my life. And they said, well, would you come down to one of these conferences, where there’s other Parkinson’s sufferers And he said quite openly again no because I don’t want to sit looking at them thinking max how I’m going to be he’s basically saying that I just don’t want to know about it when it gets really bad I’ll have to deal with it but at the moment just don’t don’t bring it into my life. And did you see that? Did you see the same kind of thing with yourself at the moment you’re dealing with it and it’s at a certain stage but is there is there that fear that he’s feeling but you’re going to go into the next stage?
Vikki Claflin [47:29]
Certainly it hits me every now and then not not really very often because you know, like I say, I’ve been watching my mother for 25 years I’m pretty good idea of the progression of this disease but and and now they have you know, deep brain surgery I’m assuming that by the time I need all this in 20 years, they’re going to be doing deep brain surgery with the Philip at a gas station. I don’t know they’ve been doing it for so long that so I’m hoping that you know, they’ve either cured it or, or deep brain surgery at it’ll be stem cell research or whatever. They’re making such huge strides that series big part of me just believes they’re going to cure it. So I’m just going to do my thing until they have a cure and hope it happens in my lifetime and but yeah, every now and then at two o’clock in the morning, I think oh my goodness spent or if my meds were off and I realised I’m shaking more now than I did last year at this time, and I realise it is in fact progressing, then I’ll get like a wave of Oh my god. But you know, I slapped myself and one glass of wine and
David Ralph [48:27]
poor glass of wine at two o’clock in the morning.
Vikki Claflin [48:30]
Well, I’m up.
David Ralph [48:31]
You’ve got a drink problem. That’s you. That’s your issue. That’s not Parkinson’s disease. You’re You’re drunk.
Vikki Claflin [48:37]
Yeah. Just an alcoholic know that wine will get you through a lot. I mean, can we say well, cosy? Well,
David Ralph [48:43]
as will the words that Steve Jobs said back in 2005, which I think are hugely motivational and are the theme to the whole show. So I’m going to play these like I always do, and I’m very interested to see whether they have any resonance to yourself. This is Steve Jobs.
Steve Jobs [48:59]
Of course. It was an possible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college, but it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [49:34]
So do you buy into those words? Or
Vikki Claflin [49:36]
do they mean any Oh, I love them. I love it. It’s fabulous. Yeah, that’s it. That’s fabulous. I like the idea we have not been able to because you can’t see into the future. Your lessons have to happen after the fact. Very few people learn from something that has not happened to them yet. It’s just it hat if it doesn’t hit you right between the eyes. Most of us it works. bystanders at that point we just watch. But if it’s happened to you, and you look back on it and say, Oh, you know what, this was the best thing that ever happened to me this was a gift. This was what I was meant to do. But you can very few people have a crystal ball.
David Ralph [50:14]
The obvious question is, would your big.in your timeline be when you was diagnosed? But in many ways, that seems too simplistic? Did you look back and is a big.in your timeline when you think yeah, that’s when I became who I am.
Vikki Claflin [50:31]
My MC dot was when I decided to write a book about it. That was because like I say, I went years without many I told everybody I had a workout injury and dropped a weight. I mean, I didn’t want anybody to know so that going public, not only just telling friends and family but putting a book out or putting it on my blog, where thousands of people are going to know about it. And and I that was that was the moment for me that decision to do that because it was just so personal, and so No, private up until that point.
David Ralph [51:04]
And what you look back on that point now one thing I should have done it earlier or do you think know that that was the right point that was the right doc?
Vikki Claflin [51:11]
No I that kind of thing that you have to do it when you’re firing on all pistons to earlier than that I would have been too anxious still because my, to me the whole the whole reason for doing this is to help other people get through it. And I wasn’t in a position to do that in the first few months. I was still in my oh my god, why me stage. And that’s not going to help anybody. And my takeaway from the book is that life isn’t over because you have Parkinson’s you have Parkinson’s, but that’s not who you are. So you’ve got to find out who you are with this disease.
David Ralph [51:47]
So just before we send you back in time on the Sermon on the mic, the end of the show, for all the listeners out there that might be listening to this we have concerns about Parkinson’s or further family or for themselves, whatever, what is the sort of parting bit of advice that you would give them?
Vikki Claflin [52:07]
I would say work on your resilience, you know, because you just never know what’s around the corner. And if you’re the type of person that can handle change in your life or, or trauma or you know that that just takes you down, you will make it because you just don’t know. So, you know, find the funny learn to laugh, whatever works for you, to keep to get you strong and resilient. With what’s gonna come around the corner, because nobody makes it through unscathed. Everybody’s got something.
David Ralph [52:40]
Everyone has got something, haven’t they? Well, this is the part of the show that we call the Sermon on the mic. And this is when I’m going to send you back in time Vicki as a time traveller, basically, to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the young Becky, what age would you choose and what advice would you give? Well, we’re going to find out because I’m going to play the theme tune and when it fades, Europe, this is seminar on the MC
Unknown Speaker [53:10]
with the best of the show.
Vikki Claflin [53:26]
Well, what I would say to me, I would say, Vicki, you’re 25 years old. You’re out of college, getting married, whatever family someday. And it’s going to be really, really easy to get caught up in that your whole life will be about building your career, building your family. But however, and you won’t need anybody, because you’re going to be your little insular little family focused on the things that you want, and as it should be, that’s your age, but my advice is to get outside of yourself regularly cultivate your relationships, because that’s, that’s what’s going to be left in the end. And my concern is that there’s going to be tough times and you’re going to want people there. If you want people in your life and you want people when you need them, you have to establish those relationships first. And so many times, that’s not what we do, we are so consumed by our drive to get ahead and our need to raise our kids and our needs care mortgage and keep our marriages intact, that we forget about everybody else. And we don’t have those relationships left anymore. We’ve let our friends go away. we’ve drifted away from our families, and then boom, we get hit with a crisis. And suddenly there’s nobody standing there with us, and we can’t figure out why. So the best advice I can give you is that if you want people there for you in the tough times, and there will be tough times. You better be there for them now. So that’s what I would have to say to myself
David Ralph [54:59]
Vicki How can an audience connect with you?
Vikki Claflin [55:03]
Well, they can find me on my blog, which is, which is Hello laugh dash lines or laugh hyphen lines, the hyphen is important.net. So that’s the easiest way to find me. And if you want to email me my Vicki at laugh hyphen lines.net.
My book which is on Amazon,
David Ralph [55:22]
of course it is. Yes. And we’ll have the links, and we’ll have all the social media links on the show notes. Vicki, thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots. And please come back again, when you have more dots to join up because I do believe I
Vikki Claflin [55:33]
would love to hear it. This was great. Thank you.
David Ralph [55:36]
You’re welcome. I do believe that by joining the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Vicki, thank you so much,
Unknown Speaker [55:44]
Unknown Speaker [55:46]
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you are wants to become. So he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to Join Up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on Join Up Dots.