Welcome to the Join Up Dots Podcast with Debbie Mack
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Introducing Debbie Mack
Debbie Mack is todays guest on Join Up Dots, who is a lady who like many of us had a path to where she is today.
A path which was full of the kind of dots that you can’t see at the time, but become crystal clear much later on in life.
She is the Creative designer at the design company Milanistudios in Houston Texas, where she spends her days helping small business with the kind of creative ventures that we all struggle with Video Services, Website Development and Multimedia Design.
But this isn’t a story about an entrepreneurial leap of faith, but a story of waking up one day to take on a normal day, that would turn out to be extraordinary.
Back in 2010 her life was literally thrown into the air, when a freak accident happened to her, which of course happens to thousands of people everyday, but we never really feel that it will happen to us.
One day she was crossing the street, and a car came from nowhere and hit her, and that one incident changed her life and helped her re-discover her lifes purpose after losing track of it in her early 20’s.
How The Dots Joined Up For Debbie
And now as she says ” I have picked up 100% and full steam ahead for the rest of my life. I created an initiative called Vivadivine. It’s geared toward conscious living, defining a purpose driven life and much more. I am also pursuing my goal to become a life coach.”
But this goes much deeper than this, as the phrase VivaDivine had been one that she had been living with for over 26 years, and started in the most opposite of directions that you can imagine.
Yes, a close friend Granger Sanders coined the words, and now not a day will go by when she doesn’t think “Man, those dots in my life so joined up”
So how did it come about that this alter ego was born, and stayed with her for so many years?
And would she look back on that dreadful day when her body took a pounding from the car and think “Thank god for that” or “God, I wish that had never happened?
Well let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots, with the one and only Debbie Mack.
Show Highlights
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Debbie Mack such as:
How she now looks back on being hit by the car as a good thing, and does not go a day without thanking the driver for hitting her.
How she realised in her life that she was unhappy, and allowed herself the quietness to sit and wait for her thoughts to come through and show her the way.
How she always felt weird in her life, and knew that she wasn’t part of the same scene her friends were into, and struggled with that thought constantly.
And lastly……..
How she now believes that when you look back and join up your dots, you can actually see the direction that they are leading into your future.
How To Connect With Debbie Mack
Return To The Top Of Debbie Mack
If you enjoyed this interview with Debbie Mack whilst not check out our podcast interviews with Brad Yates, Carmen Harris and the amazing Yuri Elkaim.
Or check out every podcast from our extensive articles here
Full Transcription Of Debbie Mack Interview
Intro [0:00]
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK. David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:26]
Yes, hello there. Well, how are we ready for another episode of Join Up Dots Episode 309. I’m ready for it. So I hope you’re ready for it because today’s guest is a lady who, like many of us had a path to where she is today, which was full of the kind of dots that you can’t see at the time, but became crystal clear much later on in life. She’s the creative designer at the design company, Milani studios in Houston, Texas, where she spends her days helping small businesses with the kind of creative ventures that we all struggle with video services websites. Development and multimedia design. But this isn’t a story about an entrepreneurial leap of faith. But a story of waking up one day to take on a normal day that would turn out to be extraordinary. Now back in 2010, her life was literally thrown into the air when a freak accident happened to her which of course happens to thousands of people every day, but we never really feel that it will happen to us. One day she was crossing the street and a car came from nowhere and hitter. And that one incident changed her life and helped her rediscover her life’s purpose of the losing track of it in her early 20s. And now, as she says, I’ve picked up 100% and full steam ahead for the rest of my life. I created an initiative called Viva divine is geared towards conscious living defining a Purpose Driven Life, and much more. I’m also pursuing my goal to become a life coach. But this goes much deeper than this as the phrase and Viva devayne had been one that she’d been living with for over 26 years and started in the most opposite of double directions that you can imagine. Yes I close friend Granger Sanders coined the words and now not a day will go by when she doesn’t think man those dots in my life so joined up so how did it come about that Miss Alter Ego was born and stayed with her for so many years and what she looked back on that dreadful day when a body took a pounding from the car and think thank God for that. Or God I wish that had never happened. Well let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dance with the one and only Debbie Mack. How are you Debbie?
Debbie Mack [2:31]
I am doing wonderful David, thank you for such a wonderful intro. Wow.
David Ralph [2:35]
That’s you in that that that that’s that’s your life.
Debbie Mack [2:39]
That is my life in a nutshell. Yes, it is.
David Ralph [2:42]
So is it asort of life in a nutshell when you look at it is it kind of like and we are obviously going to delve into this. But is it kind of password up into half or is that too simplistic?
Debbie Mack [2:54]
It’s two halves. The first half is pretty quiet and the second half is one wild adventure it really has been.
David Ralph [3:03]
Is it really wild when you say the word wild being a 44 year old man from the United Kingdom, I could be pretty wild. So how wild is wild in your world?
Debbie Mack [3:13]
Let’s just say I am not afraid to embrace whatever my spiritual awakening has presented to me. I have embraced it 100% and I definitely appreciate what I have learned from it, because it helps me and it also helps other people.
David Ralph [3:32]
In what way? Well, let’s start actually. So what is the spiritual awakening because we’re not talking sort of religious we’re talking about with the new somehow are we?
Debbie Mack [3:41]
Well, I think most people are actually born awake. And what happens is we fall asleep at some point in our lives. Some of us don’t, but some of us do. And then we have a reawakening and in that reawakening, we kind of discover who we are and what we’re really here to do. And A lot of times in that reawakening is almost shocking because we realise We’ve been living an awareness for a very long time. We just weren’t putting the dots together as you saying, join the dots. And once we put the dots together that it’s like all I know where I’m supposed to be doing. I’m supposed to be doing this to help people. So I can’t speak for everyone else. But for me, my real awakening in my I’d say early 40s was the car hitting me as a catalyst to say you were supposed to be doing this all along, you fell asleep. Now it’s time to wake up. Get on the ball, girlfriend, it’s time to roll
David Ralph [4:39]
along the way you say that girlfriend, I can imagine you doing a little hand gesture thing that which my daughter does very well, but I can’t quite do it when you sort of flick your hand both ways and click your fingers at the same time girlfriend.
Debbie Mack [4:51]
So it’s a learned thing?
David Ralph [4:53]
Yeah, I can imagine you got to practice on that. So I love the way you save that sort of reawakening because Isn’t it I think you were the first guest to coin it that way but you do kind of feel that you have slept walk somehow you’ve gone through the motions. You go to work every day you earn your money. You go out having a few drinks with your close friends and stuff. But it’s kind of it’s it’s life in a protection bubble. Somehow you haven’t really realised that life is bad to live. You’re just existing somehow.
Debbie Mack [5:27]
Right? I totally agree with what you’re saying.
David Ralph [5:32]
Oh, I was expecting more from that. That was a big. That was a big rentee phrase I started with,
Debbie Mack [5:38]
Oh, I know what it feels like to be kind of wondering. You know, something is missing. You know, something is often your life, but you can’t really put a finger on it. And it takes a catalyst to kind of jolt you into a place of questioning for me was I’m not happy and why am I not happy and what does happy feeling Like, and so I started to ask for my happiness. And it took a while. But in a course of a year, I got to the happiness. And that’s when the real awakening starting started. For me, I think I’ve always been awake. I just think I put myself in a position for 20 years of not wanting to be awake and wanting to be led. And that’s not who I was. And so when I woke up, it was kind of like, I know what I should be doing. And this is what it is. And it doesn’t matter what people think. And what they might think I’m a little bit off or crazy. That’s fine. I’ve been that way since childhood. But I’m going to do this because now I know what I’m here to do. And whoever I take with me is going to be doing what they’re supposed to do. And that’s what I’m about. I’m about collaboration. It’s not all about me. It’s about everybody else. That’s with me.
David Ralph [6:53]
Now, the interesting thing in that phrase was you’ve been like this since childhood. And he does A connection that we have built up on the show, and is one that we talk about HD every episode really, that we know what we’re supposed to be when we’re little, but we forget somewhere along the line. And if you can connect with that real younger version of yourself, that is your kind of life values. That’s the passions. That’s the things that you liked when you was a young kid, but you love now because I’ve just rediscovered this. I mentioned this yesterday on the show, but I’m suddenly back into jigsaw puzzles. I used to love jigsaw puzzles when I was a kid. And I I kind of just stopped doing them and my daughter who’s nine has just got into them, and we’re doing them like madmen. As soon as we finished one another one comes out and another one comes out. And there’s no point to it. That’s that that’s the beauty and that’s, that’s the kind of message for life generally, when you’re willing to do something, just because there’s no point you just love doing it. That is a good indicator of what you should be doing. And for me, at the moment, jigsaw puzzles sort of shows me This brings back, don’t give me money, but it gives me enjoyment and that’s an indication of what I should be doing.
Debbie Mack [8:07]
Hmm, I agree. For me I think from my childhood it was always reading and writing. And I was a huge bookworm. I would spend hours reading a book there pictures of me as a child reading and composition was something that I grew up with, and it was just an unnatural for me. So I, I’ve always been writing since I was a child. And that has followed me through my adult life. And journaling is something that I do on a regular basis. And I have boxes of my life that I have written about for years. So when Viva divine kind of expanded itself to me and a couple of years ago, I went back to what was natural for me, so jigsaw puzzles were natural for you. Writing is natural for me. I started to write I started to express myself especially because as a black woman, I can Couldn’t find anybody online or on the internet, who I could relate to who was having a spiritual awakening. So I started to write down my experiences. And that’s how Viva divine kind of came about, which was sharing the craziness that I was going through, which wasn’t the devil, it was actually the universe trying to shift me into where I was supposed to be. So that’s where my writing came in. So jigsaw puzzles is that’s, that, that is David’s awesome thing. And then writing is my awesome thing. And then other people have their awesome thing and that’s how we contribute to the whole consciousness of people waking up and realising life is supposed to be really bigger than you think it is.
David Ralph [9:43]
So so in the introduction I mentioned Did you look back on the dreadful day when your body took a pounding from the car and think thank God for that or God, I wish that never happened. what way do you see fat now when you look back on it, and we aren’t gonna sort of work out how it happened and and what how And afterwards, but is it a good thing or a bad thing that you got hit by a car?
Unknown Speaker [10:04]
David, I am forever grateful for that lady and her white SUV who hit me that day. Because if it were not for her, I would probably still be stuck in a world where I was slowly dying. That accident on a beautiful clear February day, literally changed my life and I’m forever grateful for it.
David Ralph [10:29]
So So how did it happen being you’re just walking along and she wasn’t paying attention or were you not paying attention?
Debbie Mack [10:36]
Well, it was really odd because it was a beautiful day, like I said, and I was going shopping. I don’t even know why but I was going to the mall, and I happened to park across the mall at a garage that we really shouldn’t be parking at but I was jaywalking that day. And I stepped into the roadway and my roadway. My path was clear. And I happened to look to my left and I saw a lady coming down the street in a white SUV and I said, Wow, she’s driving really fast. So I need to pick up my pace. So I could clear her car. And I started walking faster. And she came right up on me and she literally clipped me with her bumper. But I really thought that I had cleared her car but that look click clip that she hit me with it knocked me into the street. And I will never forget the sky was blue sky have ever seen. And I’m laying in the street thinking this will only happen to me. I will be the only person that I know that will get hit by a car and survive it. And
David Ralph [11:47]
will you hit man? Well, you kind of just did you just stumble away. You really hit hard.
Debbie Mack [11:52]
Well, the way she kind of it was not a really hard hit. But it was enough for me to in my brain go I don’t think To be hit. I’m too cute. My hair is pretty today. I don’t need to be hitting this long coat. Why are you hitting me lady and I literally just like, I try to not fall in the street because I’m such a diva. I still fail anyway. And it was the doctors couldn’t find where I’ve been hit because it wasn’t a major hit. It was just enough to shock my body when I hit the floor when I hit the ground.
David Ralph [12:25]
So So why why did you have such a big impact on you? Not obviously the car but emotionally Why? Why did he awaken you when it It kind of sounds a bit like a glancing blow.
Debbie Mack [12:36]
It was a glancing blow, but the shock of hitting the ground jarred my body. So for about a week and a half. I was really my body was in shock. And I was literally on myself the following week. And I vividly remember looking at us watching TV, and it was kind of like you just hit me. I got hit by a car. I could have been dead, but I’m not. And I’m not happy. Something has to change. And that’s when I started looking at the things in my life, my marriage, my belief system, the job that I loved, but I knew I had grown out of those three elements. were causing me so much pain in my life. And that is at that moment, I knew I had to make a change.
David Ralph [13:27]
Right. So that so that’s the big question. Ben is not so much the car. It’s more of that you started actually reflecting on everything in your life. And it was, it’s the happiness isn’t it? But that’s the key thing. If you’re sitting there and you’re thinking, I’m not happy. Everyone can get over being glanced by a car but but happiness is difficult to deal with. So it puts you into that position where you started looking at everything.
Debbie Mack [13:54]
I think that accident made me stop. I think it made me stop and pay attention to what was going on in my life. At that moment because I could have been killed. And I also had a huge flash forward of me laying in my, on my deathbed. And I hadn’t done certain things. I hadn’t said certain things to certain people. And I just didn’t want to have that regret in my life. And that accident caused me to stop and think about everything. Because I had been really unhappy for a very long time. I’d also had a lot of depressive episodes. And so I think that was the catalyst that kind of made me snap out of it and think about things a little bit differently. And what did I really want out of my life?
David Ralph [14:38]
So why were you unhappy when Debbie, what was what was going on?
Debbie Mack [14:42]
Well, I think I was in a mind prison of belief. And I had grown up with these beliefs on my life, and I wasn’t really thinking for myself, and I really wanted to Feel free and guilt free and stress free about my life, I always felt like I was very different. And I didn’t fit in with these beliefs, this belief system. And that was one of the things that was really wearing on my soul. My marriage was very challenging. I knew it wasn’t supposed to be the way it was, and I shouldn’t be in it. But I didn’t know how to leave it, and that I loved my job. But I knew that I had grown out of it. I was a flight attendant, and I didn’t want to fly anymore, but I wanted to be creative. And I knew that I had to push through somehow to get past these elements in my life. So I could feel that Lightness of Being that people would feel I was always positive, but I knew I wasn’t living. Does that make sense?
David Ralph [15:50]
He does. He makes total sense. And I was just thinking about all the listeners out there because so many of them will have that question. I am on the happy I’m not sure why. And that’s it. That’s a difficult one to answer, isn’t it? It’s very easy if you’re in a relationship, but you think the other person’s an idiot, and you can’t bear them anymore. That’s kind of acceptable. And it’s kind of easy when you’re in a job, and you’ve got a boss but doesn’t respect you and the works rubbish. That’s all okay. But when it’s just that kind of, I’m not happy. How do you now? How do you sort of drill down and find out what really is the crux to making you unhappy?
Debbie Mack [16:29]
I think we know. I think we always know what’s making us unhappy. I think we distract ourselves by finding other people, sex, drugs, rock and roll. I think we find things to distract us from actually being quiet enough to admit to ourselves that we are missing something. And for me, that accident forced me to be quiet. I didn’t have a choice but to sit on that sofa and feel better. And it was kind of like oh, I don’t feel really happy something is missing, I need to address it. And I think for a lot of people, that’s where they miss that opportunity is because they don’t get a chance to be quiet enough. They don’t lose enough friends, they don’t get isolated enough for them to really think about their life is fascinating.
David Ralph [17:22]
I’ve done 300 plus episodes of this show, and probably the first 250 we never really mentioned about getting quiet. Now we mentioned about how many successful people will meditate on and sort of disconnect from the computers and all that kind of stuff. But in the last 50 episodes, this this theory of of actually getting quiet and letting your thoughts come through you, and that’s the true life force but you’re kind of suppressing or you’re not listening to, it is really important, isn’t it to just sit there and think
Debbie Mack [18:00]
Very important to connect with that inner voice that you’ve always had, but you just kind of covered it with everybody else’s voice or other stuff. Because it always tells the truth and sometimes the truth is really hard to hear. And sometimes we don’t want to hear it. But I’m a big believer in communicating with you know, whatever you want to call it, source, God Almighty universe, whatever you want to call it, and then allowing yourself to be quiet. So you can actually start hearing the responses you need that will direct you to where you have to go.
David Ralph [18:40]
In this play some words but really emphasised base, this is what Oprah Winfrey said,
Oprah Winfrey [18:45]
the way through the challenge is to get still and ask yourself, what is the next right move? not think about, Oh, I got all of this. What is the next right move and then from that space, make the next right move, and the next right move, and not to be overwhelmed by it. Because you know, your life is bigger than that one moment, you know, you’re not defined by what somebody says, is a failure for you, because failure is just there to point you in a different direction.
David Ralph [19:17]
So it’s exactly as she’s saying, by actually just looking at what the next step is, and allowing that voice to come through. It really does point you in the right direction, doesn’t it?
Debbie Mack [19:30]
Yes, it is. And I’m going to tell you something that is one of my favourite Oprah Winfrey quotes. Actually, I’ve seen that video where she talks about that and I am a firm believer in you always know the right steps. You take that you ask yourself, what is that first right step? And then it’s like the answer comes and what is this the next right step? The answer comes, there is almost it’s almost easy to live. If we would just learn or get back to that place within ourselves, where we just start listening to that voice that’s directing us to where we’re supposed to go. Every step that we take is either going to take us closer or further away from our purpose in life.
David Ralph [20:21]
It does sound simple when you say that, and I’m a great believer in it. But it is easy to be a believer in it. When you already started taking those steps. It’s when you haven’t. And you listen to these podcasts and you read self development books and you read biographies and all that kind of stuff. Anything past that life I want, and I get emails from people constantly, and they they all pretty much are almost asking for permission to try and you can read between the lines, and I sort of go back to them and say, Look, you don’t need me. You don’t need anyone. You just need need to do it and you need to do something, it doesn’t matter what it is. And it might be the wrong thing for you. But it starts you moving away from that quicksand. But you’re in. And if you allow yourself to stay in that, that’s all you’re going to get. But just pull yourself out, don’t matter what direction you go in, just pull yourself out, and then start looking around. And when you can start doing those steps.
Debbie Mack [21:22]
I always believe you have to make your mind over. You have to make your mind over to what is what it is you really want in life. And if you can get your mind trained, and you can say to yourself, this is what I want, despite of what is happening around me, this is what I want. And you put that energy out into the universe or whatever, you will start to attract what you need to accomplish that desire. I always tell people it’s really simple when you go to eat at a restaurant, your favourite restaurant, any order steak. Do you order the steak and then Wonder what is the cook dealing? How’s he cooking my steak? Was he putting on my steak? you order your steak the way you want it. You put your order in the steak comes to you usually the way you ask for it. It’s the same thing with the universe. You put your order in, you don’t wonder, how’s it going to come back cooked? You just know you asked for it this way and expect it to come back that way. And for me in the last five years, I have seen proof of that.
David Ralph [22:26]
So if we went back in time, Granger Saunders he seemed a fascinating character to me, and and let you kind of legacy to take forward. He almost sounded like a kind of angel that was kind of in your life and was protecting you and showing you the way and unfortunately, he sort of departed he he passed away. What was he was he very much like that. Tell us about Granger Sanders because he had a big effect on your life to me.
Debbie Mack [22:55]
Yeah, you have to understand the background that I grew up in. I grew up in a very religious background. Round. And I was never exposed to gay people at all. So when I left home at 18, it was really odd that I met these wonderful people were just fumbling and I love them. And Granger was one of those people. And that was a very impressionable, 18 year old that he basically took under his wing and protected me because I was out of control. I really was, I’d never left home before and I was as excited about life. And he took me in and he closed me, he fed me, he made sure that I didn’t get in trouble. But he also saw in me, I think, this exuberance for life. And so what he did was he took me to gay clubs, and I’d never been to a gay club in my entire life, and I was just exposed to so much so quickly. And he said to me one day, he said, You know, I think you’d be great onstage. So why We get you dressed up, and let’s find a name for you. And that’s how the divine came about. And I will say that he had a huge impact in my life. He was like a father figure to me. And I knew his death was impending when he got sick. And there’s not a day that I do not write or do something for David IV, I do not think about him. And I’m so grateful that he gave me that name because it has followed me all my life. And now I know why. Because it’s meant for something bigger.
David Ralph [24:35]
So So what did he see in you then? Well, why did he want to protect you?
Debbie Mack [24:40]
I think I was an innocent. I think I am an innocence and I think I am an honest person. And I’m not easily contaminated. I can be in any situation and not absorb negativity, and what you see is what you get I’m very busy wig.
David Ralph [25:00]
What does that mean? busy week? What does that mean
Debbie Mack [25:03]
with it? With the wig? What you see is what you get is that it term?
David Ralph [25:08]
Oh, okay.
Debbie Mack [25:09]
Yeah, so I’m whatever you see, whatever you’re hearing David, this is really who I am. And so he protected me because in the real world, people like me get taken advantage of people like me probably get run over. So he was very protective because he would always say, child, I need to watch you because you’re going to get in trouble. That’s what his that’s how he would talk to me because he just knew I had a very open personality for people. I really genuinely love people. I’m a lover. And that’s what I’ve always been. So he just felt like he needs to protect me and watch out for me, but I’ve always had friends like that. They always realise, okay, she’s the wild child. We need to watch her because she is just going to love everybody. And then everybody loves her. You know, so they’ve all I’ve always had friends like that.
David Ralph [25:58]
And Have you always been like But even as a small girl, were you somebody was a big heart on legs just saw walking around.
Debbie Mack [26:07]
I never understood fighting. I never understood. Anger. I never understood people not getting along. I always wanted collaboration and unity with people. But then I always felt like I was very solo. So I’ve always been a peacemaker. I’m always the one that’s reconciliatory I’m always trying to make things work. That’s just who my who I am. That’s my nature. And I learned not to fight it. Because that’s my spirit. And that’s probably why I’m here on this planet, to kind of help people get along. It’s like, dude, life is too short to fight. You know?
David Ralph [26:49]
Well, I know. Totally. I don’t want to fight with anyone. I’ve only had one fight in my life and that’s when I was at school. And I won that one Debbie or one that I’m beaten So, in your sort of world, is it the case when that you knew what you wanted to be? You knew how you should be, but responsibility and how you perceived other people wanted you to live just to cover.
Debbie Mack [27:18]
I knew how I wanted to be. I knew I didn’t know what I wanted to be. And I didn’t believe what other people’s vision was for me. So I knew I was a lover. I knew I was a peacemaker. I knew I was a collaborator, I knew I wanted to bring people together. When I graduated from high school, I had no idea what I wanted to do. I just know I liked people. And I liked having fun. And I think after high school, I was on a path that would unfold it eventually to what I’m doing today. But I circumvented it because of what other people wanted me to be and I got really engaged into my own belief system in my early 20s, which was what shut me down. So when I came out of that belief system, I knew what I was going to do. I knew who I was. And I didn’t care what people thought I should be doing. Does that make sense?
David Ralph [28:19]
Yeah, it makes total sense. And and do you think that’s a key thing that people have to get into their heart or their heads or whatever, but you just being I don’t care what other people think this is my life.
Debbie Mack [28:32]
I’ve always felt out of place. I’ve always felt like I was weird. And I understand now why I felt that way. Because sometimes you’re meant to do something that’s really different than what your friends are doing. I’ve never been a follower. I’ve always been a collaborator. I’ve, I guess, in a way, I’m a leader, but not an obvious one. Because I don’t really want people to follow me. But for me, it’s kind of like let’s work together. And I think some times we get caught up in what we think we should be in the eyes of other people at the end of the day is not going to fit their vision. Your vision has been crafted for you. And you have to get quiet enough. Get silent enough so you can hear what the vision is and then pursue it with faith.
David Ralph [29:24]
So the million dollar question over listeners out there but listening to this conversation, and I’m sure there’s more than more than 10 let’s say, there’s thousands, there’s thousands, but there’s a lot of people sitting there listening and thinking to themselves. I know what she’s saying. I know that I feel weird. I don’t feel that this should be my thing. But I don’t know what it is, what it should be. How would you sort of advise them to sort of get over that weirdness and start to drill down to what they should be doing?
Debbie Mack [29:58]
For me, it was coming. indication and I, you know, I don’t ever try and ascertain another person’s belief system. I mean, they’re atheists or agnostic, there are people who are believers and all kinds of things. But I do believe that there is something that we’re connected to, that has part of the puzzle that we need that fits into everything. And for me, it was a moment of gratitude, where I just said, Okay, I don’t know how this happened, but I’m happy and whatever I need to do to show appreciation for my happiness, then I am asking for the direction. How do I help another person, one person feel what I feel. And so I think if a person is trying to figure out how to find their purpose, larger purpose or smaller purpose in life, you have to ask what it is. For me, it was what do you what do you love doing? I love to write, I love people, I love to share, I love to share my experiences. And so that was the first indication for me. That’s the path I should go. The path of finding your purpose is never linear. It’s never straight. It’s very curvy. So it started out with writing for me, then it went to videos, it went to Okay, I want to help people. So now maybe I should get my life coaching certificate, or maybe down the road I become a psychologist. It’s very linear. So you have to ask. And usually when you ask, you start getting these answers of look into your childhood, look at the things you loved your passion, how does whatever talent you have. lean into your purpose in life is about serving others with that passion. So I would always advise people, if you want to Know what you’re supposed to do as and then pay attention because the answers usually are linked to somewhere that you just have a love for. And it’s usually stemming from your childhood.
David Ralph [32:11]
All right, well, I agree with that totally about when you say ask, was there exercises? Did you do any? Did you write things down? You didn’t just sit there and sort of ask Did you
Debbie Mack [32:24]
know I asked
David Ralph [32:25]
you do you just actually spoke out loud?
Debbie Mack [32:28]
My my friends have a running joke. It’s like you always asked her what she wanted, like, Oh, yeah, I’m gonna ask God for it. I want I’m going to ask him specifically for what I want. Because who wants is going to give it to me. I mean, you can pray if you less your mode of communication. You can journal. If that’s what makes you feel comfortable, but for me, I straight up had a conversation where I just said, I want to help. I’m sacrificing my life and this is what I want to offer in exchange for my happiness and The meditation I believe is the path way of getting those answers. But I got a specific answer. When I asked to help. When I asked to be part of whatever purpose this there are people that are out there that are doing things or making a difference. I got a specific answer and that is how I knew Oh, okay, so they heard me so I need to like get on the ball. But if you prayer, meditation, journaling, spending time with yourself listening to your inner voice, those are all ways of communicating so you can get the information that you need, so you can fulfil your task on this planet.
David Ralph [33:41]
Do people have to wait as you say it’s a curly career is a squiggly line he’s just start doing something in any direction. Do you? Do you think that that is really the key point to everything? The whole conversation that we’re having? Is it just do something doesn’t matter what These do something.
Debbie Mack [34:01]
No, no, I think there’s something you’re supposed to do. I think each and every one of us has a purpose here, rich or poor, young or old, black or white. I think we all have a purpose. We all have something to teach and something to learn. And it’s, if a person can get a place where they’re asking the question of why am I here? Why am I here? What am I? What am I here to do? And what is my purpose? And I know Deepak Chopra uses those three questions to kind of get people to think and if people would ask those questions, I think they would get their answers. Even if you’re a poor person living on the street, and you’re at your wits end. I think if you ask that question, you’re going to get an answer because I know what the answer is for me. When I see that person on the street. The answer is I need to help them. So they have their answer. I have my answer. But they you have to ask for it. Because I don’t think a lot of us understand that there isn’t. There was something out there that wants us to get it.
David Ralph [35:11]
But what people will struggle with is the fact that yes, they might find the passion. But how do you make money from it? But they might think to themselves? Yeah, I know I love doing this. But how do you make a living for me about that’s the mental block, isn’t it?
Debbie Mack [35:26]
But that’s the thing. You don’t have to make money from it. You don’t have to make money from it. The energy that you put into whatever your purpose or your passion is, goes back out, and it creates more energy. I don’t know where I’m going to go with this. All I know is I’m supposed to do it. Is that going to make me a million dollars one day? I don’t know. I don’t care. All I know is I’m talking to you. And I know that that’s part of putting the story out there. I think if you go into it thinking dollar signs, you’ve lost a little piece of that energy, that purpose. You go into this because you really love what you’re doing. You really see a difference. When people reach out to me privately and ask me questions and I don’t feel qualified to answer that still tells me that I’m doing something that’s in line with their original purpose. I don’t make a single dime off of Viva divine Well, maybe 25 cents, but I don’t make anything off of it, you know, but I still get up every single day. And it’s the first thing I want to do. Because I know that somewhere down the line, somebody is getting a little bit of help or a little bit of encouragement, and that keeps me going.
David Ralph [36:38]
And so are you aiming for the divine to be a business?
Debbie Mack [36:44]
I don’t have control of it. I think the divine is something that doesn’t belong to me. I am just the voice and the girl behind it. I think it was something that was given to me to utilise and help people, wherever it goes. You know, I’ve always said, I don’t want fame because I can’t handle not walking down the street and not being able to have a normal life. But wherever it goes, I do know that I’ll be able to handle it. But I know it’s something that’s important. And so that’s why I keep working on it. wherever it goes, it’s it’s not up to me. It’s up to something way bigger than me. I’m just doing the work.
David Ralph [37:28]
I do agree with what you’re saying, you know, starting this show, the mumps and mumps and mumps, I didn’t earn a penny from it. And it was a very long hours and it was very, very tiring. But is the foundations isn’t it but that’s what you’re doing and you’re getting better at doing it and you’re getting noticed and you’re just pushing it forward is the old phrase about 80% of a rockets power is us just getting off the ground. And then once you get to a certain point, things become a lot easier. And so did you feel at the moment that you’re pushing Bieber divine forward, but ultimately, it’s just gonna sort of float away from you.
Debbie Mack [38:08]
I feel like it’s dragging me. I feel like I can’t keep up with it sometimes because I created a situation where I have to, you know, write three pieces a week, I have to tweet, whatever information is coming to me and share with people. Sometimes I don’t sleep at night because I’m laying in the bed going. I want to sleep but information is just coming through my brain. I feel like it’s almost on its own. And all I have to do is just kind of ride with it. You know, if
David Ralph [38:45]
he’s at home easy.
Debbie Mack [38:48]
Um, I have a full time job. And then I have a full time purpose. And I’m always trying to figure out, which is, I know, more important, but I’m Trying to figure out how am I going to do both without blowing out a fuse in my brain. And so for me, it’s kind of like I put Viva divine first diva divine wakes me up in the morning, and it puts me to sleep at night. I am constantly writing in my head and a lot of the things that and I want people to know this a lot of the things that I write, and a lot of things that I talk about is not out of my head. It’s coming from a different place because sometimes I read what I’ve written, and I’m thinking, I didn’t say that. That’s not from me. So a lot of times, it’s it’s incessant, and I’ve asked for breaks and I’m like, I know I asked for this to be a voice. And for a long time, nobody saw my face on this Viva divine thing. And it was kind of like read a face on it. So put your face on it. And then it started to get like crescendo and then I could breaks I get breaks where nothing comes and I just kind of sit around going okay, I’m on vacation. But Viva divine has a life of its own. It was never mine. It was just something that was given to me that has stuck with me. And I’m just, you know, making sure that I handle it properly for whatever the purpose is, is maybe to help people, you know, understand spiritual awakening. And as like I said, as a black woman, being a conscious human being, because I couldn’t find anyone like me. And I thought I was losing my marbles when I started to wake up. But as I am, you know, being able to speak more with the divine, I’m finding more and more people are, especially people of colour are reaching out to me, they’re like, okay, I thought I was crazy. I’m like, No, you’re not your normal.
David Ralph [40:42]
But do you know I think the once again, you’re saying so many interesting things. But I think one of the interesting things that you said and I’m sure you’re not even aware of it was when you read your words, and you think I never wrote Bose, that is called about being in flow. And that’s, that’s that power source when you totally are connected to what you should be doing, and you don’t have to think about it. And when you see all the successful guys and ladies out there, and especially sportsman, but just for those moments can’t do anything wrong because they’re in the zone, they’re in that state of flow. that’s hugely powerful, isn’t it? Because I listened back to some of my shows. And I hear myself talking about stuff. And I don’t ever remember having those thoughts in my head, although it’s my voice. And I listened back to it. And I think, God, he’s making a lot of sense fair, where I’m from, and that that’s a that is a great state. And that’s a great position for people to get a clear understanding that they’re on the right path, isn’t it when they they’re losing hours of their life, because they’re so engrossed in something and they’re not looking at the clock thinking are two hours to lunchtime, three hours to hometime, and all that kind of stuff. So I understand exactly what you’re saying. And I think that’s a key point that you are on the right path, if that’s happening.
Debbie Mack [42:01]
I literally spent the last seven months, basically just writing for Viva divine. And I said, What do you want me to say? What do you want me to talk about? And I would always get some kind of interesting inspiration to write about. And there were times when I would literally be writing a post. And I would literally feel like someone said, Don’t write that. Don’t say that. And I would have a back and forth. And I realised in the back and forth, I was fighting with whatever inspiration I was getting. And I said, Oh, okay, I’m not going to say anything. I’m just going to write or there were times where I could feel like I was forcing the post. And then I kid you not David, I would write a post. The next day, something completely different would come into my mind and I would not use the original one. I would go with the one that came at the last minute, and it would flow so effortlessly. When I was done writing, I would just say to myself That is not me.
That’s not me.
David Ralph [43:04]
You see over time, don’t you we’ve musicians and and everyone really and he’s is it’s just marvellous in it when it does happen to you, but I spent years and years and years working in corporate gigs and it rarely ever happened to me, it was just a slog to get through the days.
Debbie Mack [43:21]
Mm hmm. It’s a different feeling. It’s like almost, and then you might be able to relate to it because you’re doing the show, you know, you just get on this roll. And and the next thing you know, it’s kind of like, what, what just happened? It’s the same thing when I start writing and I post and I read and then people respond. I’m thinking, you guys realise that’s not me. I don’t. That’s not Debbie. That’s something up there. That’s filtering because I asked to help one person. I asked Is there somebody out there that needs to hear something today and they can receive it from me and so thumb, something always seems to pop up. And I learned to trust it. I learned not to rely on my own understanding. I learned to just kind of like ask for what somebody else needs or what I what do I need to help me get through this day?
David Ralph [44:14]
Have you taken a risk in your life doing this? Have you taken a risk of trying to balance your full time gig with biz? Is something going to suffer?
Debbie Mack [44:24]
And I do know that I was asking for time to focus on David divine, and then my contract. I am a contract instructional designer that ended abruptly but I saw it as an opportunity. And I said, Well, I am going to write for however long I’m off, I’ve got savings, I’m going to make it work. And I wrote and I focused on that for seven months. And then I was recently given another job opportunity, and I’m already thinking that I’m going to take a risk at some point. Say, I don’t know how it’s going to happen. But diva divine is going to make sure that I am financially covered. So I can keep doing it. I don’t see myself working a full time gig for the rest of my life. I do see diva divine at some point, paying me for the hard brain work that I’m doing at night when I can’t sleep. It’s something that I really want to focus on is something that for me, it brings me joy every day to get up and, you know, interact with people and share things with people. I can see how people make their purpose their life, I really can.
David Ralph [45:40]
And I’m going to play the words of Steve Jobs now on a female to the whole show. And I’m going to be fascinated to see whether they have resonance to you and whether you can actually join up the dots of your life which so many of our guests can This is Steve Jobs.
Steve Jobs [45:56]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in College. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path, and that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [46:31]
So do they make all the difference?
Debbie Mack [46:34]
Yes. You cannot connect the dots until you see them looking backwards. But when you get to the point where you realise they are dots, you can start connecting them to the future. And I think that is where I’m at right now. I can see the past DOS and I can look at the future and go oh, I know what to do next or I know what will happen next or either Know who will help me next I know what will show up next, you start to be able to see because you’re able to, to put your make those right steps that Oprah talked about, you’re able to make those right steps. And so you kind of know where you’re going to go.
David Ralph [47:15]
So so so what was your big dots in your life? When you look back on it? What was the moment? Was it the car hitting you? Was it the realisation that you wasn’t happy? was it was it? Mr. Saunders, what was you picked up?
Debbie Mack [47:29]
I think my biggest dot was moving out on my own at 18. I think if I had learned how to be a little bit more self sufficient and not, you know, at 21 run back home to mommy and religion. I think I probably would have created a path of where I would have already been so far ahead today, but that’s okay. Because I believe that that altered pathway taught me a lot of lessons that I needed to learn, but I think at Teen was my first dot. Because I left that confined, meant of childhood, went out of my own, and was experiencing a lot of things and people that were part of that purpose started to come into my life. And I shut it off. But David, the minute I got out of the 20 years of confinement, the same people came back into my life. And that’s how I knew there was something I was supposed to do. So that was the first dot the second that was probably the car accident.
David Ralph [48:35]
So so when you see confinement, you really feel that do you?
Debbie Mack [48:40]
Yes. A lot of, you know, religion, I think has its purpose. It’s there to make us think. But there’s some belief systems that really kind of keep you in a controlled environment, where you really are not encouraged to think for yourself. And I was in that for a very long time. And I was struggling with it, not realising that I was supposed to be there. But when I finally did break free of it, it was kind of like, Whoa, my brain is normal. I’m not supposed to be there. So I lost 20 years of my life, but it’s okay. Because all that experience now makes life more richer. I can speak about things on a different level and understand people’s, you know, experience and relate to them. Because I’ve had something that deeply entrenched that was removed from my life.
David Ralph [49:37]
And that is the key message supposed to all the episodes. It doesn’t matter what your life is, like, at that moment. It doesn’t have to stay like that. But make sure you learn from what you’re dealing with at that moment.
Debbie Mack [49:51]
Yes.
David Ralph [49:53]
Did you think most people don’t realise that? I think because for many years, I don’t think I thought about Anything I just think I, I lived. And I went to work and I came home and I went to work, I came home and I had two weeks holiday each year. And I don’t think that I, I reflected at all on what was going on. It was just one day after another. Do you think that’s how most people are?
Debbie Mack [50:16]
Yeah. And you know, what I would love to see is if we could, like individually look at our lives and go back to when we started doing that. Because it happens sometime after we leave our parents environment where they have kind of guided us to some degree, and then we get on our own and we kind of lose some kind of guiding force where we probably should have had a really good one. Because I know exactly what you’re talking about. It’s like you get lost. Why do we have to get lost? That’s my question. We shouldn’t have to get lost.
David Ralph [50:52]
We shouldn’t should we know we said we got a bodies compass that that points to way If only we analyse It to, to do that the point in the way that we should be going. And we’ve all got that. But it’s only when you you find it as though that’s a horrible thing. And that’s the annoying thing that so many people want to find this. I went out with a mate last night and we was having a chat. And he said to me, I don’t know what I want to do with my life. So I said, Come on, come down, we’ll go for a drink, bring a pad. And I’ll give you some ideas of what you should be doing. And I pretty much said to him, you know, just jot down 50 things that you love doing 50 things but you can do and 50 things that you used to do and you enjoyed, and then were look at them and see the themes. And within maybe 1015 minutes, it was quite obvious, but he shouldn’t be working in an office. He should be working at maybe being a builder or interior decorator or something. He liked working with his hands and he liked creating stuff. And he wasn’t and it was just one conversation. And you could see his compass start to sort of Twitch. And he suddenly started thinking, I think I might know where to go. And he’s amazing. He doesn’t take that much effort to find that compass.
Debbie Mack [52:11]
Mm hmm. And I love how you you handled that with him. Because that’s how I would deal with something like a friend of mine, I would do the same thing. It’s like, what do you love doing? What ignites your soul? What makes you happy? You know, it could be a little teeny, weeny thing that you might think is insignificant, but to somebody else, it’s a big deal. You know, it’s like you’ve got to find we all have something in our spirit. That just turns us on. And if we could just find it, and like hone into it and pull out what that is. I think we all would have such more meaningful lives.
David Ralph [52:56]
I agree. Wow. This is the end of the show now and this is the part that We call the Sermon on the mic when I’m going to send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the young Debbie, what age would you choose? And what advice would you give? Well, we’re going to find out because I’m going to play the theme. And when it fades you up this is the Sermon on the mic.
Unknown Speaker [53:22]
D league with the best paid on the show.
Debbie Mack [53:40]
Well, Debbie, you’re on the cusp of a great adventure. You’re 13 and you’re about to leave that tiny island of Jamaica and move to the US so get ready. The one thing I want to tell you, that you’re probably struggling with is that you’re dealing with this ability to know and sense things. I know it makes you feel really weird and different. But I promise you, that special ability will save your life and lead you to your destiny. Always, always listen to that inner voice and follow your heart because your heart always speaks the truth. Now, the reason why you feel different now is because what you don’t realise is that you’re harnessing the power of love. And I know it sounds crazy when I tell you this, but there are no accidents in life. A lot of things that you believe in that you have known all your life when you get to this point where I am talking to you. You are going to let them all go because you will know what the truth is. And the truth is love. My strongest advice to you is never, ever give in to your fears. No You’re able to dream it. And if you can dream it, you can achieve it. You are different for a reason. And in time you’ll find out and from where I’m standing girl, I’m calling back to you. And I’m telling you, you’re about to have an amazing life because you’re part of a crowd of game changers. I’ll see you soon.
David Ralph [55:22]
Debbie, how can our audience connect with you?
Debbie Mack [55:25]
They can find me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, under Viva divine and also they can hang out with me at my blog at Viva divine that blogspot. com. Debbie, thank you so much for spending time with us today and joining up those dots. Please
David Ralph [55:42]
come back again when you have more dots to join up because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Debbie Mack Thank you so much.
Debbie Mack [55:52]
Thank you David, awesome.
Outro [55:55]
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you or wants to become He’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to Join Up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on Join Up Dots.