Jason Lewis Explorer Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots
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Introducing Jason Lewis Explorer
Jason Lewis is today’s guest joining us on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots business coaching podcast interview.
He is an award-winning author, explorer, adventurer and sustainability campaigner specialising in human-powered expeditions.
Now if you don’t you what this means consider this.
Just remember the last time you thought you would pop to the shops, and you think “I’ll take the car, it will be so much easier”
Well our guest today is recognised by Guinness World Records as the first person to circumnavigate the Earth without using motors or sails.
Walking, cycling, and inline skating five continents.
Kayaking, swimming, rowing, and pedalling a boat across the rivers, seas, and oceans.
This took thirteen years to complete, the 46,505-mile journey and was hailed “the last great first for circumnavigation” by the London Sunday Times.
But this is just a tiny part of what this guy is all about.
How The Dots Joined Up For Jason
Life is more than just getting his name in the Guinness Book Of Records,
Jason has also visited more than 900 schools in 37 countries to date, involving thousands of students in a variety of programmes in conjunction with UNESCO’s Associated Schools Program Network.
He shares his tales of adventure and hardship to promote world citizenship, zero carbon emission travel.
His talks show awareness of individual lifestyle choices on the health of the planet.
This will be an amazing story of taking chances, inspiring the world, hardship, but savouring those life experiences that you can only get by putting yourself out there.
So when he was growing up in Catterick, Yorkshire, in Northern England was he inspired by the world and loved nothing more than flicking through the pages of an Atlas?
Can you just go into countries wherever you want or do you have to find the border crossings?
And does he get told by everyone that he meets that “Jason, I would love to be doing what you do” and think “Well why aren’t you then?”
Well let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots, with the one and only Mr Jason Lewis.
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Jason Lewis such as:
How he recalls sitting in a flat in Paris with his friend Steve Smith, and after a few beers decided that this was a challenge that really appealed as he felt that anyone can do it. They just needed to start.
Why it is so strange that in the UK that we fail to celebrate the winners and the high achievers, and do not like people to really go out and do something amazing.
How he would get pelted by stones thrown by the children in Tibet, and realised that he needed to start throwing back at them and found the kids loved it when he did so.
How we all look at the successful people in life and think that everything must have been put into place for them. We find it hard to believed that they truly worked at it.
How he now knows that the journey was just part of his life, and he is not going to be defined by his actions. They will simply be the starting point to even more personal missions.
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Audio Transcription Of Jason Lewis Interview
David Ralph [0:00]
Today’s show is brought to you by podcasters mastery.com, the premier online community teaching you to podcast like a pro. Check us out now at podcasters mastery.com.
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling join up dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK David Ralph
David Ralph [0:38]
yes hello there across the world. Welcome to join up dots This is Episode 335. And this is one I’ve been looking forward to for a long time. We actually started recording this a couple of weeks ago and we had this solar eclipse. And something weird happened I don’t know what happened but my whole system went a bit ski with so fortunately but get the chap is here today. And we are going to really delve into today’s live because it is a fascinating one because he’s an award winning author, adventurer and sustainability campaigner specializing in human powered expeditions. Now, if you don’t know what this means, just remember the last time you thought you would pop to the shops and you think outside the car it’d be so much easier. Well our guest today is recognized by Guinness World Records as the first person to circumnavigate the earth without using motors or sales, walking, cycling, inline skating five continents kayaking, swimming, rowing and pedaling a boat across the rivers, seas and oceans of the world. Now, if that sounds hard, just being this took 13 years to complete. It was 46,505 mile journey and was held but last great first but circumnavigation by the London Sunday Times. But this is just a tiny part of what this guy is all about. Life is more than just getting his name in the Guinness Book of Records as he’s also visited more than 900 schools in 37 countries to date, involving fans thousands of students in a variety of programs in conjunction with UNESCO’s associated Schools Program network. And while he’s in the schools, he shares these towers of adventure in hardship, to promote world citizenship, zero carbon emission travel and awareness of individual lifestyle choices on the health of the planet. Now, this is going to be an amazing story of taking chances, inspiring the world hardship. But of course savoring those life experiences that you can only get by putting yourself out there. So when he was growing up in Patrick Yorkshire, in northern England was inspired by the world and love nothing more than flicking through the pages of an Atlas. And can you just go into countries wherever you want? Or do you actually have to find the border crossings? I’ve always wondered that, but you can just strolling well, and I suppose the last thing I suppose is does he get told by everyone that he meets that Jason, I’d love to be doing what you do and think well, why aren’t you been? Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up with the one and only Mr. Jason Lewis. How are you Jason?
Jason Lewis [2:58]
I’m very well David yourself.
David Ralph [3:00]
I’m extremely well, I’m firing on all cylinders today. I don’t know what’s come over me the last few days I felt really sluggish. Like I put too much effort into it. But today I feel good. And you You must have that high octane. Yeah. Have you known that feeling in your life because you know, I’m going to cut straight to the chase on here. I normally do a preamble. But it’s so much to talk to you about 13 years of travel, there must be some slugging days when you wake up and think about last thing I want to do is get on my bike and pedal.
Jason Lewis [3:31]
Too many of them too many of them and and that’s the thing, people you just hit it hit the nail on the head, people read the bio that you just read out, and they think oh wow, your life but must be amazing. And like you just sort of constantly on a high and having a fantastic time. And so exotic parts of the world. And, and the reality is, is that probably 90% of the 90% of my life, like any person’s life is a lot of hard work and grind and sitting behind a desk very often, you know, writing books or, or whatever. And and on the journey itself. There was a lot of just, yeah, there was a lot of grinding away the pedals. Some days would be wonderful. And I would just lose myself in the experience of being out there on an ocean thousands of miles from anywhere. Other days, it was just like, Oh, this is so boring. This is so samey. And I wish I was back in London instead of sitting behind a desk someday, so So yeah, it’s not, of course, always how people might expect it to be.
David Ralph [4:36]
Well, since since you were coming on the show, I become a bit of a fanboy. And I’ve been sort of like researching you. And I’ll be honest, I have got adventure in me, I love the thought of doing this. But I couldn’t do this before, but it’s going to be 13 years of your life without your family or whatever. And you can’t stop because as soon as you stop, you failed, you just got to keep keep on going keep on going. Was it one of those eight pints of lager conversations in a pub one night when it seemed like a good idea. But then actually, the real sort of realization came in later.
Jason Lewis [5:12]
It will finally you should mention that it did start off as an idea that involve alcohol. predictably enough, perhaps. And it was the idea originally was a friend of a friend of mine, Steve Smith, who I went to college with, was working at the time in Europe as environmental scientist. And he was got a bit disillusioned with his job. He was looking out of the window, one rainy Monday morning in Brussels. And he thought of this idea which no one has done before. And he and I had done some quite sort of wacky weekend trips at college, just taking random trains out of London and walking in no particular direction with no camping gear and sleeping in a barns and crawling into the back of pub windows at night to sleep and that kind of thing, just really to sort of, to have these little mini adventures. So he thought, Okay, this is obviously some guy who is unhinged enough to do this trip with so he called me up and we ended up in a in his apartment in Paris. This was a bit later on one night and after of several beers, and he pitched me the idea and, and I can honestly say, at that time, I had a little cleaning window cleaning business in London. And I was not really going anywhere with the crappy band that I was playing with in the evenings. So I just I just agreed to join immediately. And looking back on it that sort of that night. That seminal night changed the rest of my life.
David Ralph [6:44]
He is fascinating that moment, but you know, you’re not Indiana Jones, you’re not got explorer stamped on you. But you think that you can tackle something that quite simply, I don’t think many people given the challenge, but it’s going to take 13 years would be able to do it. What was in you at that time other than the beers that made you think I could do this? I could it’s worth doing?
Jason Lewis [7:11]
Well, I should mention that the next morning when we woke up with a hangover, predictably. And normally, when you have these ideas, you wake up the morning and you think what what we talking about as a stupid idea to row a lie low across the channel to France, or whatever it or you know, go down Everest wearing a thong on a on a tea tray or whatever. It might be anything
David Ralph [7:38]
you’re planning on these, aren’t you Jason, I can tell it.
Jason Lewis [7:41]
This my bucket list. Yeah, that was my, that’s my younger self talking. But But this on this occasion, we woke up we thought Actually, that’s a really good idea. You know, people have rode across oceans and beautiful a bite across land masses, but no one’s done a continuous thread around the planet. But the thing that really appealed to me because I’ve never been been into, I never see myself as a so called adventure explorer type. I haven’t. I was never I was in the army. But for a short period, I knew that it wasn’t for me, and most of adventure types. They tend to be either from the army, or they are people who, you know, they’ve always wanted to be an explorer. And so so I was I it happened really by accident for me. But I think the thing that really appealed to me about this idea was that theoretically, anybody could do it. It didn’t involve mountaineering, where you would, you know, have to be an expert, I didn’t involve expensive equipment, like yachts, and you know, airplanes, it’s like, if you could put foot one foot in front of the other. If you could ride a bicycle, then you could do this journey around the world. And that simplicity, was the thing that really appealed to me. And I thought, Yeah, why not? Why not do why not anyone with no previous experience, do this. And that was I think, the thing that really appealed to me the most,
David Ralph [9:07]
the fascinating part from this as well, but I thought when I was reading it was that the fact you come up with this idea, and it’s quite obviously an idea that inspires people, the fact that you’re on this show, and I imagine you’ve done thousands of shows, and people are fascinated by this. But when it came to actually getting people to back you financially, you found it very, very difficult, almost impossible that nobody would actually put their name or their money up. And so you ended up down in Portugal, I believe, basically setting off with just enough food to pedal across the Atlantic, get to Miami, and then make it up as you go along. Now, is that just kind of how you always are, are you very much a what’s the worst going to happen kind of person, or were you so seduced by the romance of it all, that you just bought, somebody’s going to buy into this, if I feel very strongly about it, somebody going to buy into it?
Jason Lewis [10:01]
Well, this was the idea, because originally we were going to go east East about so we would have cycled through Siberia, Russia and Siberia. But because we couldn’t get sponsorship, which ended up being part of reason why it took so long, 13 years originally, if we had the money up front, we could have probably done in three or four years. But we didn’t know that at the time, of course before setting out. So but because we we literally we had to borrow a bit of money or family and friends enough to get going. We thought, well, we don’t want to run out of money in Siberia in the middle of winter. That would not be fun. So let’s go the other way around the world arrived in America first. And hopefully, we will pick up some some funding there. But there was no guarantee. And there was a real, there was a real expectation on both of our parts that once we arrived in Miami with literally, I mean, we had the clothes we were standing up in, and we had $50 that are passing at&t cabling shipping had given us partway across Atlantic, that’s all we had. And we really didn’t know what to expect. We thought, you know, we the expedition may just fail here. But part of the ethos of this journey, and I think it ties into the, to the ethos of your show is that even if you don’t know how things are going to turn out, and that’s not a good enough reason to begin. And I think it was Gerda, the German philosopher who said, you know, if you dream, if you have an idea, something that you really want to do, I’m paraphrasing here, then the most important thing is to begin it. Because as you get into a dream or an expedition, you’ll meet people along the way. And as we found certain circumstances will arise that you couldn’t possibly have predicted at the beginning that will allow you to then move on to the next stage. And that, for me was part of the beauty of this particular journey was it wasn’t some multimillion pound sponsored event where we would blaze through countries and and nobody would be any the wiser. We had to, we could only move forward when we had met the people of the world. People who who provided us with the means to keep on going. So in that sense, it wasn’t just a human powered circumnavigation. It was very much a People Powered one as well.
David Ralph [12:20]
I was speaking to a gentleman called will Hudson and he is super cycling man. And basically, he’s riding his bike over five continents, one of them being the article, the Antarctic is certainly the snowy place dressed as Superman. And he started off as something to do in the school holidays because he was a teacher. And now it’s become his full time gig. And it goes. And he says that, more often than not, the world is full of smiling people people are they they embrace somebody doing something because more often than not, we don’t we we go to work, we support our family, and we give ourselves all the excuses in the world. He says that basically the world smiles wherever he goes. Now, of course, he’s dressed as Superman. So that’s a bit bizarre when he saw cycles in but do you find the same thing wherever you go? Is there a happiness to see you because people embrace your spirit.
Jason Lewis [13:14]
Not always know, I’ve recycle three parts of the world where I’ve been stoned literally through Tibet, the little the children would line Wait for me at the beginning at the the outside of villages, and help me with stones in Ethiopia, Ethiopia.
David Ralph [13:31]
Jason Lewis [13:32]
they saw me down there was no trees, and they just saw me from half a mile away. And the and place like Ethiopia where the kids are out on the land taking care of the flocks of sheep, sheep and goats. Again, I would get whole hordes of kids like pelting and it wasn’t it wasn’t really out of maliciousness. They were just having a fantastic time. And, and I sort of realized, you know, for these people, and this is something I experienced in other parts of world, they actually can’t really to someone taking off for many years on a bicycle, you know, night, I think the vast majority of people who live in the world, they they would never get to do a trip, like the trip I’ve done because life for them revolves around working very long hours in the fields perhaps or in a factory and just scraping enough food and money together to support their family to put food on the table. So I think you know, you have to be a bit careful when you say that. Yeah, I mean, there are basically there are good people everywhere. There are a few bad apples. But but as a sort of as someone a traveler from a relatively well to do, affluent country like the UK, you have to be a sort of, I think aware that when you go through poorer parts of the world, people, the people in those possible, and they’re probably never going to get to do a trip like you’re doing so i think i think i sort of, I felt like I had sort of bear that in mind sometimes. Because people always ask, where’s your family? You know, what are you doing? Well, how can you possibly afford to do a tour like this? So, but yeah, getting back to the kids, I you know, originally I remember being pelted by kids in Tibet and thinking, Oh, well, I must be the MSP the politically correct traveler from the outside, and I must sort of laugh it off. And, and after a while, you know, what, I just would put my bike down. And I would just pick up a load of stones, and I would return fire. Because, you know, these kids, they knew what they were doing. They and they were just and and the longer you were doing it, or Well, I she loved it. They thought this was hilarious. You know, because most travelers when they go through, they’ll sort of they think, Oh, I must be sort of I must be appropriate, and I’m a visitor in their country. Now, you know, I’m like, No, I’m sorry, that is not appropriate. Doesn’t matter. If I’m a traveler from another country of it, you know, you should not throw stones at anyone. So I think they’re kind of like, they, I believe you call them on their shit. You know, it’s like, you shouldn’t do that. And I’m going to play your game at your level. And they thought that was hilarious.
David Ralph [16:07]
So So how long did Steve stay with you? Because I was trying to get a spin of it. And it sounded like you Well, as you are the first person. It was either that the two of you were coming into their home straight and you started pedaling faster than him and got better. Or he sort of dipped out somewhere what happened with him?
Jason Lewis [16:24]
Well, I mean, we set off as a team and if if he had continued we would have finished as a team together. So he was never trying to beat we you know, because we were the first there was no need to try and break any speed records. I mean, 13 years Come on. I mean, you could probably do on your hands and knees faster than that. Yeah.
David Ralph [16:44]
With yards if you knew you could be the the one in the record books when you when you keep on speeding up speeding up.
Jason Lewis [16:51]
Yeah, well, that’s, that’s the problem. Now. I mean, there are people out there trying to do human power circumnavigation as we speak. And and of course, now the the onus is to do it faster, doing a slightly different way. So and that’s the problem with adventures is typically if you’re the first person to do it, then you have the luxury of doing it in your own time and in your own and sort of how you want to do it. But but then you then there’s an added this added pressure thereafter to to either do it faster, or to find some gimmicky way to do it a bit differently. Which of course, I think sort of somewhat can become a little bit trivial, you know, expeditions becomes sort of stunts, essentially. But no for us it was we had the luxury of doing it our own way Steve got this far as Hawaii Five years into the trip. So we paddle across the Atlantic we we cross the US separately actually because by the time we reached him reach Miami after pedaling across the Atlantic, we let’s put it this way, we needed a break from each other. We had to spend a long time you know women’s tiny little boat together. So it’s well let’s let’s pedal separately as do the US separately before the Pacific three times the length of the Atlantic. And so once we reach Hawaii see decided that’s part of that point that you know, he didn’t really enjoy being on the boat he nearly drowned on the Atlantic after a cap size we had. And the whole novelty of being nomadic was starting to wear off so he he decided to go home.
David Ralph [18:27]
Is that a regret? would you have liked to have had somebody because I’ve done road trips for like two weeks with with people. And we fought in our in that two weeks just being with each other for 24 hours. And that’s when you in a comfortable environment in a hotel room and all that kind of stuff. So to actually be pedaling across the Atlantic, it must really put a strain on you. So when he said farewell, was it a relief? Or did you think we started this together, it would have been great to finish it.
Jason Lewis [18:57]
To be honest, at the time, I was happy both for him, because I think it was the right decision for him to make even though he got a lot of it took a lot of flack in the media for supposedly abandoning his mate. I was happy, because, you know, it’s difficult to be traveling with someone who is not enjoying themselves, you know, it just it just creates a lot of tension. And, and on this boat where you can’t get away from the other person, I mean, you’re literally within four feet of the other person 24 hours a day, seven days a week and everything, everything is a shared experience, there’s no privacy at all. You can’t You can’t create your own space. So so when you have someone there who’s not having a good time, you know, it’s just it drags it drags you down as well. So, so I was happy for him to leave. But you know, the word then points in the trip thereafter, when I was alone. And although I had other people join me, other friends join me foot for different legs. There were there were a big portion to the journey of their after that I did alone. And and those were the times when I thought you know, it’d be really nice to have Steve here. Because, you know, we did start something quite special. And we did have, you know, this history of trying to get this sort of improbable journey off the ground, I mean, two years of planning and preparation, back in London with no money before we left. I mean, we went through a lot. So in some ways, when I did finally finish it 13 years later stepping over the line at Greenwich in East London. I thought you know, it would it would in a way be nice to do it with the guy that I started it with. But hey, you know, that’s part of the journey.
David Ralph [20:41]
I was watching. Ewan McGregor and Charlie Bowman the other night with my son, he loves those programs. And you appeared and you were suddenly on it, it was the long way down. And obviously vape travel down on these journeys, and they’ve got a support crew, and they’ve got camera crew and all that kind of stuff. Is Is that the way to do it is the way that you you did it sort of too risky. Really? Should you have support? Should you have a medical team? Should you have all that kind of stuff?
Jason Lewis [21:11]
Well, if you’re good in front of a camera, which I’m not, then it probably is a good way to do it. Because, Charlie and and you and I see them as especially you and they’re entertainers. Yeah. So they are providing an entertainment resource for for viewers on TV. And, and they’re very good at what they do. And some people have said, Oh, yeah, I saw that program long way down. And, and you know, and you and looked sort of quite disgruntled, the fact that you suddenly rolled up on a bicycle in the middle of nowhere, making them look? Well, because they had all these support vehicles. Maybe they weren’t sort of quite so tough and hard after all, but but I think the point is, is that in order to make a TV show like that, you have to have an entourage of vehicles and and producers and, and and, and that’s the way you have to do it. The other end of the scale is you do it like I did it, which is without support. But the result is you don’t have it very well documented. So it’s just a different thing. Really, it’s a different sort of, and it provides a different experience. for you as the traveler, I don’t think I would want to do a trip like there’s I mean, yes, you get the recognition, you’ve got the money in it. And I’m sure it was great fun for those guys, but I just don’t think I’m one of those types of people who would enjoy being part of a media circus. I sort of, you know, if I, if I ride my bike into a town, I want to build to meet people on their own merit. And and not for them not. You know, as soon as you have big cameras in the mix, it sort of changes how people act towards you. And suddenly, it’s just a completely different fail to to traveling. Whereas if you’re just on your own, you’ll you’ll you’ll see a complete different side of the people that you’ve made along the way.
David Ralph [23:08]
And it isn’t a big difference around the world are we all pretty much the same, we’ve got the same stresses, we’ve got the same needs, we’ve got the same requirements easier a huge difference as you go around, or when you get down to the nuts and bolts of it will pretty similar.
Jason Lewis [23:25]
Yeah, I’m a great believer in that theory. Although I’m I don’t want to sound too trite and simplistic. Of course, there are huge differences most notably in you know, in people’s financial terms of how much money people have an access to health care, and all the things that we take for granted in a country like this. But But yeah, once you drill through the layers of language, colors of skin, religious differences, belief systems, cultural differences, all of those, almost not not all, but learn all of those facts, I think that people are the same. And one of the programs that I worked to set up with UNESCO was was on creating cultural exchange programs, where we I gave out cameras, both still in video cameras to kids, groups of kids in the different countries, and they would make a short film about themselves and where they lived in the world and, and then we would exchange those, those little portraits, those 10 minute video portraits with, with children of their of their of a similar age and other cultures. Because underneath all the differences, I believe that we are all the same and and people want similar things, they want to live peaceful lives, they want to, you know, have enough food on the table to feed their family, they want to be happy, they, they, they, they want the same things as we do here in the West. And as in if you can somehow sort of provide people a little a portal for them to see how we are all the same. I think we we could, we would perhaps be more empathetic towards people living other cultures. And and and I think that, you know, in order to, to this is me sounding a bit getting on my high horse, but to solve some of the big problems that we are facing, like climate change, I think we do need to see through those differences in order to work together collectively to solve them. So that’s it.
David Ralph [25:22]
Well, let’s play some words really sort of emphasize the whole vibe of the show doing something that you really don’t know it’s going to work, but you just need to do it. This is Jim Carrey
Jim Carrey [25:32]
my father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.
David Ralph [25:59]
Now, it’s become a big question for me this, but do you take a chance on doing what you love? Or do you find out that you love doing something because you’ve taken a chance on it? And it seems to be a different spin. So when you had this idea, and I imagine you went back and you said to your family, look, I’ve had a few beers in Paris, this is what I’m going to do me my mate Steve we’re going to start cycling around the world. Were you surrounded by people going? Yeah, that’s a brilliant thing. Go for it. Are you surrounded by people going? Hang on? Hang on? Do you really know what you’re doing?
Jason Lewis [26:31]
Yeah, I think the latter, because my family, for example, where I think quite taken aback with the whole idea. Because I mean, they were, you know, sensibly, they they pointed out that neither Steve nor myself had done anything like this before. And even though it was theoretically doable by anybody peddling a boat, across an ocean is is a potentially very dangerous thing. Do and you could die doing it. And as it turned out, I had, I did have some scary experiences throughout the journey. Where I think looking back, I am lucky to sort of be talking to you now. But and all our friends I remember going you know, in the pub in London and going to the, you know, telling a friend, we were going to this trip and and there’s something in England we have called tall poppy syndrome, where we don’t like people to succeed, we don’t like people to go off and do something that that they might get some recognition at. Or Or rather, we don’t like them to do something outside of the mold of what we expect them to do. Jenna me?
David Ralph [27:38]
Well, I know exactly what you mean any it’s it’s very different to the Americans, the Americans go Whoa, go for it, go for it. And in the United Kingdom. And this is to the listeners. If there is a like a football soccer Cup final. And there’s a big team that’s really going to win, we will always support the one that you don’t expect to win. It’s just the way that the English in the UK people do it. We don’t like the champion, do we we like the underdogs. We like to kind of the people battling against their weight somehow.
Jason Lewis [28:05]
Right. And I think everyone loves an underdog. But for some reason here in the UK, we have this very negative negative approach to people who want to go off and do something a bit different. And that was that was our experience when we told our friends that we were going to do this trip and, and but in a way that made us I think even more determined to kind of prove them wrong. They were like, shut up, go and get the beers and you’re not going anywhere. You know, you’ll get like five minutes, five miles down the road and you’ll be back in back in the park get that you know, get. So that that made us more more determined not only to kind of start in the least set off, but also hopefully be able to keep the thing going because there was a real worry that Oh my God, if we have to abort the whole thing, once we reach Miami and go back to London, then we’ll just be the total laughingstock, of, of you know, all our friends,
David Ralph [28:57]
would you because you would still have tried. And the world is full of non Trier’s the people that are sitting in their cubicles going, Yeah, you’ll never do that you’ll never do this. And they’re giving excuses. At least you gave it a go. I would say to you, you know, our final rounds in May, because you gave it a go.
Jason Lewis [29:16]
You don’t know my friends? I’m just kidding. No, I think you’re right. I think you’re right. And people do. And I found this in Australia as well, like the Americans, like you say that they’re very, very, very supportive. And I think they still have that real pioneering spirit. Because their country is quite new. So if you’re saying, Yeah, I’m going to roll a blade across the US, which is what I ended up doing. I’ve no idea how to roller blade. But I’m going to do anyway, they’ll they’ll, they’ll really be able to relate to that. Because not so many generations ago, their grandparents or great grandparents were doing exactly that Heading, Heading west with just their worldly possessions in the back of a wagon, a covered wagon, for example. But yeah, got to got to, right. And it was the same sort of thing. It was that same thing we have in the here in the UK, where, where they’re kind of, it’s almost like jealousy, they’re like, they don’t want you to do it. But hey, if you do it anywhere, it’s like good on your mate. And they’re sort of, you know, they’re actually kind of jealous that they’re not doing things. So I think what it boils down to is people don’t want you to do it in the UK and Australia, because secretly, maybe they know that they should probably be doing something a little bit more adventurous with their own lives. And so it makes it sort of shows them up that maybe they should be doing a bit more what do you what do you think to that?
David Ralph [30:36]
Well, I think you are absolutely right. And I know when I started this, okay, this is small compared to what you’ve done. But I know so many people at the beginning was saying to me, Well, how are you gonna make money on it? How are you going to do that? How you gonna get these people to talk to you? How are you going to do this, and it was just like, all these obstacles thrown at me. And quite Fortunately, I didn’t pay attention. I think I was like you, I just see the passion of doing it. And so I sort of plowed through. But yeah, now the people come up to me go, Oh, you should speak to this person, you should speak to that person. And it is kind of turned full circle. And there’s become a bubble of positivity around me. But I do think generally with live, and I’m sure that you found this, then there comes a tipping point with something where you become a success vacuum. And then suddenly people become your supporters, because they can see that there’s a chance that you’re going to achieve something and then it goes full circle. Did you see that with yourself when you’re cycling along? Did suddenly the media start paying attention where they didn’t want to know, at the beginning, businesses started coming along back kind of thing?
Jason Lewis [31:39]
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I mean, even my, my, my, I mean to, the best example would be perhaps my my family. And when I set out, my mom, my dad were quite worried and they were supportive. But they were they were a little bit baffled by their son’s decision to go off on this journey. And I don’t think they had really a means to be able to put a value on what we were doing. But once we cross the Atlantic, and then the first article came out in the, I think there was there was a piece on, on Channel Four news. And there was some some, there was some articles in the papers here. But back here in the UK, once they once they realize that the establishment was getting on board, in terms of national media, that I think that that made it okay for them to think it was okay to, and it created a way for them to sort of understand it in a sort of, I wasn’t just there, you know, you’re always going to be seven years old, in your mom’s eyes, right? No matter how old you get. So it provided them a way to sort of to value it more. And then even as the journey progressed, I remember, you know, it was really, for the first 11 years of this journey, we were doing our own fundraising, we’d arrived in a new town like Miami, some Cisco in Australia, we’d have to set up shop, putting the boat on display, we have to give talks, to sell t shirts at the end of names on the boat for $20. That was how we funded the whole thing for the first 11 years. And that was definitely the hardest part of the journey, much more so the physical traveling, but after 11 years, finally got to Singapore. And then that tipping point that you mentioned, occurred. And it was like, Oh, yeah, this guy is going to do it now. You know, it’s actually going to happen. And then suddenly, I managed to pick up a financial sponsor to take me the rest of the way back to London for the last two years. But it was so annoying, because the first set of 11 years, you know that you’re going to do it. Because you know, you know, you have the passion and the drive for it. But it’s it’s other people. And it seems like you have to reach a critical mass of popular opinion of content on websites and articles and, and whatever for people to find except they’re going to do it and suddenly, everyone they’re like, Oh, yeah, we know, we knew we were going to do it. And you know, we want to be involved, when of course, it’s pretty much guarantee that’s going to happen. But hey, that’s just the way the world works
David Ralph [34:10]
is a metaphor for everything, no matter what you’re doing. It always starts that way, and you start off lonely, and then you end up in a crowd, don’t you?
Jason Lewis [34:19]
Yeah, and you just that’s, and that’s the thing for viewers, for your listeners to bear in mind is like, that’s the reason why you do have to take take a leap of faith on something because no one’s going to be there cheering you at the beginning, or at least very few people are but they will at the end. But it’s it takes out sort of that first, that those takes up that first period where you really have to just pay your dues, and no one’s going to be, you know, congratulating you for it until you get to a certain point. And then suddenly it happens. And that’s the weird thing is like I I sometimes say this in my talks to kids, you know, when you look at successful people, people tend to we tend to think that way, they must have been born like that they’re more different. There’s something special about them. But what of course we don’t see is the fact that you know, they’ve gone through trials and tribulations, the daily struggles that we all face, but we only see the end product. And and it’s it’s that’s dangerous, because that can be almost at this almost discouraging to us. Because we don’t know their backstory, we don’t know all that they have done to get to that point.
David Ralph [35:28]
Well, I found fascinating as well, if we sort of jumped back and I know it was a TV program, but to the UN and the Charlie programs. At the end, they would always go into a town, they would be riding with their arms up there be sort of high five ng and everything is really positive. And since I’ve been doing this show, I’ve spoken to Graham Hughes, it was the first man to visit every country on earth. And I’ve spoken to people who were the first person to get to the top of Everest and all that kind of stuff. And I’ve said to him, you know, when you achieved it, was it high five, literally to a man and a woman? They’ve all gone? No, I felt deflated. I thought there was going to be this feeling of joy. But I just kind of thought there must be more to life than this. I put all this effort into it. And it was exactly the same as it did 10 minutes ago. Did you feel the same when you finished yours You came in with? Where did you finish it? Where did you come into?
Jason Lewis [36:19]
So we started and finish at the Royal Observatory in East London. So there’s a British meridian line that runs through it and you step over a bridge, a brass line in the cobblestones that role observatory. You know, you say you step over it when you leave, and you separate when you get back. And yeah, when I finished it was I think I knew by then that was going to be an anticlimax because having pedal that having done 16 legs of this journey, which involves probably, which involve completing sections across continents, where you have a definite ending, beginning or pedaling across oceans, you know, you arrive at the end of the Pacific and, and I knew that and I so I knew that that that there was going to be an anticlimax. But crossing the Greenwich line, I it was just it was the sense of just peace. I can’t think of any other words to describe it. It was the only day or rather, that was the only time on the entire 13 year journey where I felt at peace with myself. And up until that point for the previous 15 years, including the preparation. It had just been like very stressful, always too many things to do. You know, worrying about are how am I going to get through this border? How am I going to get the visa for to get into this country? How am I going to you know, get enough money together to do this bit, you know, worry all the things that will Hey, all of us have to worry about. But it was this sort of wonderful as I was walking the last 10 feet, the line. And there were a lot of people there were hundreds and hundreds of people there to see me in. So in that sense, it was it was a very euphoric moments. And my parents were there. I hadn’t seen my family for 13 years. And you know, of course, they looked a bit older and frail. And since the last time I’d seen them, but I just felt this sense of peace. I walked over the line. And it was done and the
David Ralph [38:22]
song did you put an act on for the crowd?
Jason Lewis [38:26]
No. And that was the weird thing. I was live on Sky TV and, and and the guy with and of course the media, you know, descended and you’re surrounded by woolly microphones suddenly, and everyone asking questions, which was fine and good, but, and they were expecting some, some demonstrative explosion of, of, you know, of like fists in the air like you said, or like, yeah, I’ve done it. And well, I’ve beaten the earth and I’ve conquered. I’ve conquered the planet, whatever people. And I just cried, I just I just, I just cried a little bit. And I do. I just thought, you know, I just sit here 13 years coming to an end. It’s been a long trip, you know, it’s been a long journey. And I’m, I’m happy I’m just really looking forward to seeing my family. And, and and i think i was i was completely didn’t do what they were hoping which was something way more testosterone driven?
David Ralph [39:19]
Well, I think that is, I think that’s life again it anyway, isn’t it when when you’re working towards something, we don’t celebrate? Do we and I hear it time and time again, the people say to me, you really need to celebrate, you really need to focus in on an achievement and reward yourself with a couple of beers or something. But when you are focused on such a big task, it’s like what the next bit of a cheap that and you never actually assess what you’ve done. Do you lay in your bed now and have dreams that you’re traveling? Or are you still sort of totally in peace?
Jason Lewis [39:53]
No, but you know, when I finished this journey, I was so sick of traveling. Even though even the sight of map would turn my stomach. I had just been you know, you can do everything too much, right. And I had just been out there for too long. And I knew I’d known that I was at that I was ready to finish this thing at least a year before I finished it. I remember actually walking through the town of Aleppo in Syria. And I had had a wonderful experience cycling through Syria, it was probably the most favorite country of mine in all of the 37 countries that I traveled through. And it’s very hard for me to look at that what I see on the news and reconcile it with my experience of traveling through that country. But anyway, I remember walking through Aleppo, about a year before I finished and and I just knew that I was ready to I was like, you know what you are you should not be traveling anymore. You know, I had just become this machine. Yeah, that was fully adapted to traveling and circumnavigating the planet. You know, I was just like a well oiled machine. But in terms of emotionally was absolutely buggered. Excuse My French, I just was ready to be done. And, and so the few weeks and months after I finished the journey, I just wanted to be somewhere where I didn’t have to move on all the time. And it’s taken me quite a while to assimilate myself back into society, the part of that process has been writing a book, series of books about the adventure. And that’s actually helped me, I think, get over some of the more traumatic things that happened on the journey. But the book writing has allowed me to sort of put the whole thing behind me finally put it to bed. And now I could look at a map again. And I’m thinking Hmm, yeah, I wouldn’t mind going to there actually, yeah, without feeling physically sick at the prosper. So
David Ralph [41:48]
do you call yourself an explorer or a traveler? Because I’m always fascinated by this. I’ve spoken to, as I say, lots of people now. And certain people are traveling around the world, and they’re doing it, you know, in cars and motors, whatever. And they call themselves a traveler. Do you know what the difference between an explorer and a traveler is?
Jason Lewis [42:08]
Oh, you know, this is the problem trying to attach a label, you almost have to try and frame yourself. So people kind of in a very short amount of time, they can sum up who you are. So in your Twitter handle, for example, like, you know, what I what are you? Are you a scientist? Are you a traveler? Are you Explorer. So, you know, and their labels are always sort of tricky things. I think that I wouldn’t call myself an explorer, because I think they’re real explorers these days are people who are heading into outer space or into deep ocean. They’re really the only two mediums left to explore properly every inch of the earth. Otherwise, all of the air has has has been explored. traveler? Yeah, I would, I would call myself a traveler. Well, but I think the things that I that I’ve done that I’m interested in doing in future do do involve an element of of risk and of not knowing how things are going to turn out. I think that was a writer pull through once wrote that, that, that tourists are people who who don’t know where they’ve been, they go to so many places, they don’t know where they’ve been, but but travelers or adventurers or people who don’t know where they’re going. And I think that sort of sums, those two definitions up quite nicely. For me at least.
David Ralph [43:37]
Well, one of the things that fascinated me, and I sort of mentioned it in the introduction, and it’s always fascinated me This is border crossings. why we have so much border? Why you can’t just roll over a mountain and go into a country do you? Do you actually have to physically find the crossing? Or could you just do it? Could you just all be all it’s only a small country? I just go over here and nip across nobody in there? And I’ve been the other one quite quickly.
Jason Lewis [44:00]
Yeah, you can you can do that. I mean, I’ve done that through. I’m just trying to think now. Through Eastern, so going from West to East Timor, that was a border crossing, but for example, going from Sudan to Egypt, you cross the border there and this and that. There’s no, there’s no red line. In the sand. There’s no, there’s no, there are no gods, I just paddle across to the nearest town, then you what you’re supposed to do in a lot of towns, you then turn yourself into the local police station on immigration point. Because ultimately, you need a you need to get stamped in whether you’re into that country, you need a stamp on your passport. So So sometimes you’ll have to travel. I mean, getting into I think it was Ethiopia, you have to travel about 100 miles before you reach the nearest town where you get your passport stamped. So it’s it’s sort of a variety of different things going into Tibet, or member just paddling cross the border. Because it’s now theoretically part of China, I there was never I never did a border crossing. I just entered Tibet and then left again, once I entered Nepal,
David Ralph [45:11]
is going to be really annoying when you lose your passport when you need to get a new one. And you have to send your old one back with all the stamps in it. That’s that’s going to be quite disappointing, isn’t it?
Jason Lewis [45:20]
Well, and you know what i’ve i’ve actually ended up losing one of my passports, I think part part of the way around the world. And so the passport that I have right now actually had two British passports. Because if you enter if you want to go into a country, like Syria, and you’ve been through Israel, then you can’t get in, you can’t get into a lot of Arab countries if you’ve been through, through through Israel, so so you have to have two passports and you get the Israeli stamp and one and that allows you to travel through the Arabian countries in the other passport. But so anyway, I’ve got my my stamp showing quite a few different passports and but yeah, the one that I have right now has quite a few. So it will be kind of weird, maybe I think don’t Aren’t you able to keep your old passport, if you ask for it. I think they just chop chop the kind of important bit out and then they’ll send it back to you. I think, Oh, I thought I had to
David Ralph [46:09]
lose mine because I used to travel a lot. And I was quite proud of all the stamps I got. And I remember being quite disappointed when I had to send it off. And that was my sort of traveling history had gone.
Jason Lewis [46:20]
Yeah, no, I think if you ask the immigration, the passport office, I think you’ll find they’ll give it back to you.
David Ralph [46:27]
So with your life now, it’s fascinating. But you have such a big part of your life. Are you defined by what you’ve done? Are you defined by who you are, personally? Or how people perceive you? Because of what you’ve actually done there?
Jason Lewis [46:45]
That is an excellent question David and I think you can probably apply it to enter a lot of different, you know, sports people, music musicians, you know. And it’s a question that I’ve been asking myself a lot recently, because I’ve now finally finished the book series about this last journey. And I’ve been start, I’ve been turning my thoughts towards what I want to do next. And I’ve I definitely do not want to be defined by what I’ve done so far. At the same time I thinking okay, well, there’s a reason why I did that. There’s a reason why I did 13 years around the world by human power. I wasn’t just trying to get rich or or you know, it’s a terrible basis. There’s there’s no money to show for it. There’s no career as such. But on a sort of personal and Phyllis philosophical and spiritual level, I’ve now sort of taken my takeaway from that journey, is something that I that I’ve written in the conclusion of my book, and it’s something that I want to take forward into what I do next. And so adventure, you know, do would it in necessarily invalid venture? Yeah, maybe. But I don’t, I don’t see myself necessarily as a sort of a serial adventurer, I I’m kind of, I’m not that actually that interested in the different forms of, of travel, that you use an adventure, I’m not that interested in bikes, or boats, or walking or rollerblading, they were all just means to be able to pursue this line of questioning that I started in London all those years ago. So what I want to do next, I think will involve adventure, but only because it’s sort of the the the appropriate vehicle, for me able to, for me to be able to kind of pursue this, this line of questioning that I’ve that I’ve always had. So getting back to your question, I think that where I’m at where I’m at in my life, right now, I’m 47 years old, I need to be able to make a living, yeah, I need to be able to pay the bills. So in that sense, I do need to, in a sense, monopolize on on what I’ve done so far. And I do you do talks based on the fact that you’re the first person to circumnavigate the planet by human power, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, certainly, but but also, I don’t want to sort of become like a dancing monkey, doing the same thing, but in a slightly different way, which is the danger of being an adventure, you end up sort of trying to find a different way to do the same thing. So that’s, that’s where I’m at right now. And I thought of something I want to do. I’m sort of going to be announcing it fairly shortly. And I’m really excited about it. I think it fulfills my passion. I think it will help me still be able to make a living, but it’s going to broaden my horizons, not just limit them to what I’ve done already.
David Ralph [49:41]
Well, what I find amazing is the simple fact that you were the first and if anybody listens to my shows, and I speak to people that have done like you’ve done, I always pose this because it just kind of blows my mind. But nobody had done it before you nobody can do it. You you are the only person who’s ever going to stand on this planet that does that. Does that sort of amaze you? Are you just kind of out? Well, I suppose so. Because more often than not the people I speak to they don’t seem to get as excited by that fact. As, as I seem to do your Trivial Pursuit, as I always say you are a Trivial Pursuit question.
Jason Lewis [50:19]
Well, you’re very, you’re very, very, very flattering words David um, yeah, I don’t know. I mean, to be honest, I’m a little bit surprised that more people are more interested in the genre of, of human powered circumnavigation. And I think it’s something that people perhaps find a hard thing to get their head around, like they can get if you were to say, yeah, I’m gonna, like the, like sailing, for example, all these other well established genres, like climbing, like, people can understand like, Okay, I’m going to climb Everest. So headman, Sir Edmund, Hillary, and people consider understand, okay, yep, the mountain you got to get to the top of it. It’s very hard, very cold, very, very dangerous. But if I, if he can get to the top of it, he’ll come back. And that will be an amazing thing. So So I think there are other there are other kind of feats that people have done that are more tangible for people. But there are other feats that people have done, which I think probably they gained a lot more recognition. The Kentucky journey, for example, Thor Heyerdahl, for those of you who are not familiar, he built a balsa wood raft, and, and sailed it across part of the Pacific, in the in the 1950s. And he didn’t make it all the way across the Pacific. He used sales. It was quite unusual for that period, certainly. But it wasn’t I mean, on this example, compared to the first person, Joshua Slocum to sail around the world, or the first person to move to go to the moon. I don’t think it’s that amazing. But everybody knows the story. Lots of people know Thor, hi, doll. And and so there’s the cult, there’s a cult following there. I think. Yes. I think also in elements of we weren’t particularly good publicists. We didn’t have a big publishing. Sorry, a big PR machine behind us. So that may be has something to do why? why people are not sort of not not more aware of the journey that not just I did but but you know, all the people that were involved with my journey. You know, that’s why we maybe didn’t get as much recognition as we might have done. And that’s
David Ralph [52:28]
the beauty of it, isn’t it? But it’s something that’s going to grow is a starting point and your your new adventures that you’ve got in your head and the new plans? Are they going to be easier to do just because you’ve done this now you’ve got that name that people look at and go oh, Blimey, yeah, he has done something. Yeah. Okay, we put money into this. Is it going to make it easier for you? I,
Jason Lewis [52:48]
I really hope so. Because I do not want to be scrabbling around in shopping centers with a boat on display trying to get 20 pounds out people’s pockets like I’m yeah. So I’m 47. Now, ah catches up with you a bit. And you know, you think Well, yeah, if I’m going to do these, if I’m going to do this next project, I do want to have it, I think I’ll do want to have it funded before I set out. Because that was I think the hardest part of the whole of the last trip was was having to stop it in a new town and, you know, work for four or five months and and do the next bit. So yeah, but I really don’t know David I don’t know if, if, if, if I mean, I know I have something of a name for myself. But I really don’t know how far that goes. As far as actually bringing in sponsorship dollars, we’ll find out here shortly, cause we will, let’s
David Ralph [53:37]
play the theme of the whole show. These are the words of Steve Jobs said back in 2005. And really have huge resonance with me. And most people that come on the show. This is Steve Jobs
Steve Jobs [53:48]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leaves you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [54:23]
Do you buy into those words? Jason?
Jason Lewis [54:26]
I do? I do. Indeed I do. And I think that Steve Jobs
summed up, I think one of the lasting
the lasting lessons that I took away from that journey. And I and I’m one of the things I go in and talk to people about children about is is you know, you do have to take a leap of faith.
David Ralph [54:48]
It is interesting with with your journey, though, that you got to a certain point and you were sick to death on it, that the actual travel. And so it became more about the well more about schools more about education, did you decide that you had to fill in that void because you you needed something to channel your efforts to make it around?
Jason Lewis [55:12]
Yeah, I did. Personally, I think everybody’s different. There are probably people out there who would who could sustain themselves for 13 years, just with the notion that they’re going to step across a brass line in a in a cobblestone court courtyard one day, and claim to be the first person to do something, or the fastest person to do it, or whatever. But I’m not one of those people I I’m I love that. For me, it was more about the journey than about the destination and you need both, paradoxically, you need to have the goal to be able to set out in the first place. But I think there is a danger with these things of then the goal becoming all all important. And and and you can not be can become something where you’re you’re trying, you’re striving so hard to reach this, this little light at the end of the tunnel. But it’s not getting bright enough quick enough that you end up burning out. So I knew that if it was just the adventure, and if it was just the the end goal that I was going to be motivating myself towards on this journey that I would have, I wouldn’t have made it I would have given up and gone home late my partner did. So I knew that doing something with the journey other than just doing it for the sake of doing it. I developing educational programs working with teachers with on developing curriculum around well citizenship and environmental stewardship, those, those became my my overarching reasons to keep to keep going on the journey. And, and I and I, the weird thing was is, you know, I got run over by a drunk driver in Colorado and had both my legs broken in 95. It was at the time, it seemed like a total disaster, I thought I was going to have to go home back to England, I didn’t have any money at that point, I’d almost ran out of all of my savings. And I thought you know, I’m not going to spend the nine months it’ll take you here to recuperate. So but ended, I ended up being able to stay because my surgeon let me stay up his cabin up in the mountains. And I went around to local schools and, and that was when the when the educational component really cooked kick kick kicked off for me. But and after the nine months of staying there, I look back and I realized that, wow, if that guy hadn’t hit me on the road, I wouldn’t have got to spend that nine months in Colorado, I wouldn’t have got to really identify what my real passion is, with adventure. And I probably would have given up partway through and gone home. So so the weird thing was is that sometimes you know, on the journey, things will happen, that you can’t really understand their importance, or why they’re happening. But it’s only with the benefit of hindsight that you can look back and say, yeah, that happened that had to happen. For me to understand this or for me to get this lesson to in order to make the journey more, more more worthwhile, or for me just to finish the journey at all. So so some of these things happen in life that that you just have to grow with. And you have to go with the new thing. There’s there’s a reason for them to happen. But I just don’t know what they are right now.
David Ralph [58:22]
The good dots and the bad dots, they all blow into one don’t I really,
Jason Lewis [58:26]
I guess there are no such things as bad dots. No, they all there’s always some kind of silver lining to the bat to even even to the black dots.
David Ralph [58:34]
So so just before we send you back in time on a one on one with your younger self, this is my last question. And this is a good question, Jason. It’s occurred to me. And as it came into my head, I was actually proud of this. So here we go. This is a big build up. This interview finishes, and you walk into a room, and all your friends and family are standing there. And I ball got walking boots on and rock sex. And I say, Jason, we want to do these come with us. would you do it? Would you undertake it again?
Unknown Speaker [59:06]
Jason Lewis [59:08]
why would you ask such a question?
Unknown Speaker [59:09]
Because he just popped into my head.
Jason Lewis [59:12]
Yeah. If If I was okay, right now, aged 47. I would say no. If I was 26, I would say Bring it on, let’s go. Because you know, you’ve asked an impossible question, David because I’ve done this. I’ve done this journey. Because I’ve done it.
David Ralph [59:31]
You don’t get this report. I know. What’s that? You don’t get this with Michael Parkinson, these this kind of question.
Jason Lewis [59:38]
I know you don’t you put me on the spot. But some it’s the same. The same question is, you know, people ask me Oh, would you do it again? in you know, no, having done it? I would say no, I wouldn’t do it again. Because I’ve done it. I know what it’s like it was an amazing thing to do for 2026 year old. Yes, it was amazing. But I want to do other things now. But yeah, if you’d asked me 30 years ago, I would have said yes. Immediately, like I did Steve you know in 1992. Without a doubt.
David Ralph [1:00:06]
But what is a different direction? You see something different?
Jason Lewis [1:00:12]
What if you said to me? Yeah, okay, let’s go off. And for six weeks, let’s go and let’s walk to I don’t know, walk to Greece or something? Yeah, I’ll be up for it. I’ll be up for it if it was with friends as well, because I also realized during my journey, that being alone, traveling is all very well. But there’s nothing like being with another person to be able to share the journey. So if there were a bunch of good friends, I would be up for
David Ralph [1:00:38]
Yeah, that’s what you need, you need a bunch don’t use. So when one of them starts to annoy you, which always happens, you can just stop right side lock with somebody else. And when he starts annoying you, you can sort of move around, I think it’s much safer to do it in a group isn’t it?
Jason Lewis [1:00:51]
It is, although I have trouble with a large group, through Australia, we mountain bike through Australia, and I had eight teenagers and two teachers with me. And the only problem with that though, is it becomes of it. But it was like crowd control of terroir trying to get everyone to agree on one thing. Yeah, so it’s difficult. So I found that the the ideal number for people to travel with is actually three to just if it’s just two of you, you don’t have any referee to kind of adjudicate when when you start arguing more than three people gets to be difficult to agree on anything. So you’re always compromising on direction on what direction you’re going or where you sleep for the night, blah, blah, blah, blah. But three people’s is kind of scene seems to me the ideal number where you’ve got one person to sort of be independent when there’s when there’s a fallout, but this, but there’s three of us to kind of make it to make lively conversation. And for it to be a real laugh.
David Ralph [1:01:48]
Well, let’s send you back in time, I really don’t want this conversation to finish. But this is the end of the show when we’re going to send you back in time on another journey to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the younger Joe, what advice would you give? And what age would you choose, I suppose I’m going to play the theme. And when it fades you up, this is the Sermon on the mic.
Unknown Speaker [1:02:33]
Okay, Jason Lewis, this is your 47 year old avatar speaking to you. And you know what your your this is a long time in the future, but you are actually in the same house as your older self is. Speaking right now I’m actually clearing out the house that you grew up in. Your mom is getting getting quite old now. And so you’re gonna have to having to move the house. And you’ve been traveling for a long time, sorry. You’ve been traveling for a long time and and at some point, when you get a bit older, you’re going to go, you’re gonna leave home and you’re going to go to school, we’re going to go to university and you’re going to meet going to meet a very special guy who’s going to propose this ridiculous idea for you to do. Sorry. You always were a bit of a crier bit of a baby. And he’s going to propose this ridiculous idea for you to go around the world by human power. And up until that point, you are a bit of a rebel, you’re a bit of a misfit, you don’t you’re an anti anti authoritarian. You, you you don’t really believe leave in fitting in with the rest of society. You’ve having a real hard time finding a direction in life and and so this guy’s going to think of this idea for you to do. And at one point, at some point early on that trip, you’re going to find yourself paddling out into the Atlantic on this contraption, there’s 26 foot by four and a half foot wide boat. And it’ll be the first day of of that journey and the land will slip slip below the horizon the stern and you will, you will be heading into this huge expanse of of blue, the Atlantic Ocean, and you will have only done maybe a couple of days worth of a sailing on the on on on on the ocean before with your dad, when you were 1314 years old. And you will honestly think what on earth am I doing? Why am I doing this? Okay, but you’ve got to remember this one thing, okay? It will be fine, it will be okay. Because even though you are taking a leap of faith into this abyss of not knowing, not knowing how it’s going to turn out, not knowing if you’re going to survive this ocean crossing to Miami, you have to you have to know that this is going to be the probably the most stupid but liberating thing you will ever do. Because over the next three and a half months, over the over that ocean, through the storms through the monotony of the pedalling, you will, you will take the biggest leap of faith you will have outside of your comfort zone that you will have ever taken. And it’s just a thing that you need to do all right to find your place in the world to find your sense of place within yourself because stepping outside of your comfort zone, this ocean, okay, it’s going to teach you some really useful things about yourself, you’re going to learn who you really are, you’re going to de learn all you thought you knew about yourself, all you thought you were capable of, or not capable of as the case may be, you are going to you’re going to recognize your full potential as a human being. All right. Once you’ve done this crossing, and you step off the boat onto land in Miami, you will know yourself as a human being you will know what you’re capable of. Okay, you will know your human potential. And you will, you will be able to navigate a path through the rest of the expedition. And I think navigate a path the rest of your life that will bring you lasting happiness, and fulfilment. So you need to on that first day that led to you need to go with it. take that leap of faith, and it will be fine. those dots will connect. And and and you’ll look back and you realize as I’m saying now that you needed to do that cross you needed to take that leap of faith because it’s made you who you are today.
David Ralph [1:07:14]
Jason Lewis, how can our audience connect with you sir?
Jason Lewis [1:07:19]
Well, there is the predictable website which is Jason explore.com.
As probably the best way or I’m on Twitter, which is explorer Jason, at add Explorer, Jason on Twitter,
David Ralph [1:07:32]
we will have all the links on the show notes. Jason, thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots and please come back and again when you have more dots to join up. You come back whenever you want me because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Jason, thank you so much. Thank you David thanks for listening to today’s episode of join up dots brought to you exclusively by podcasters mastery.com. The only resource that shows you how to create a show, build an income and still have time for the life that you love. Check out podcasters mastery com now
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you are wants to become so he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to join up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on join up dots.