David Gaggin Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast
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Introducing David Gaggin
David Gaggin is todays guest on the Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots business coaching podcast.
Throughout his successful career as an engineer for Boeing, NASA and the US Army, our guest today spent forty years of his own time researching the philosophies of ancient wisdom, and many other schools of thought to answer the fundamental questions we should all ask ourselves sometimes in our lives.
Why are we here?
What is our purpose?
How might we live it better?
As he says, “I’ve been a seeker of truth for as long as I can remember. I recall as a teenager sitting in church looking at all the pomp and ceremony and thinking “I don’t know what truth is, but this isn’t it!”
So began a quest to find the answers to these questions and of course to understand himself as well as he can too.
How The Dots Joined Up For David
Taking advantage of his extensive training, he voraciously studied all the major religions and their origins.
He read the ancient texts like the Books of the Dead, and The Kyballion.
He studied the eastern and western philosophers from Pythagoras to Plato from Lao to Emerson.
As a trained engineer he studied all the sciences including quantum mechanics, relativity, cosmology, anthropology, and archaeology.
He even studied reincarnation, mystics, UFO’s. “I wanted to look at reality from every perspective I could think of,” he offers.
His book, “The Endless Journey”, is the culmination of his personal quest.
It explains our nature and provides uplifting guidance on how to make the most out of our lives.
Especially when we say ‘yes’ to the experience as spiritual beings.
This last statement is a huge part of life, and one that we can skip over quite quickly time and time again…..saying “yes” to the opportunities that surround us everyday.
So of course the big question too all this research is has he answered the questions about himself, or after 40 years is he still as confused as the rest of us?
And as a scientist how did he manage to research and not dismiss some of the more out there concepts that appear in his book?
Well lets find out as we bring onto the show, to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr David Gaggin.
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with David Gaggin as:
Why he recalls as a youngster and throughout all his life needing to challenge the world that he lived in and needing to turn over stones wherever he went.
How he took ten years to buy totally into the theory of reincarnation, as he could see it as the perfect solution to the questions he was searching for.
How he knew that he had to assess all different realities as it was the only way that he could make the ultimate jigsaw puzzle of life fit together.
How he feels so much happier to know that he has finished the book and shed the weight of constant questioning from his life.
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Full Transcription Of David Baggin Interview
David Ralph [0:00]
Today’s show is brought to you by podcast is mastery.com, the premier online community teaching you to podcast like a pro. Check us out now at podcasters mastery.com.
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK. David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:37]
Yes. Hello, everybody. How are we? Are we all right, I hope I hope we’re all right, because I’ve been getting a lot of emails recently from people who seem to be struggling not to get going but actually to find their thing that it’s almost like they’re they’re starting to get going in a direction and they think it’s going to be a straight path, but believe me Me, as you will have heard on episode after episode, it takes a while to find your thing. It really does. And I suppose that’s an example of what today’s guest has demonstrated because it really has taken him quite a while to find. I feel that it’s he’s been in life, but we’re going to discuss it with him on the show and find out whether we think this is the part where he should be in his life. Now, for a successful career as an engineer for Boeing, NASA and the US Army, our guest today spent 40 years of his own time researching the philosophies of ancient wisdom and many other schools of thought, to answer the fundamental questions we should all ask ourselves sometimes in our lives, why are we here? What is our purpose? And how might we live it better? As he says, I’ve been a seeker of Truth for as long as I can remember record as a teenager sitting in church looking at all the pomp and ceremony and thinking I don’t know what truth is, but this isn’t it. So began a quest to find the answers to these questions and of course, to understand himself as well as he can to taking advantage of these extensive trial he graciously studied all the major religions and their origins and he read the ancient texts like the books of the dead, and the Kabbalah. He studied the eastern and western philosophers from Pythagoras to Plato from loud Emerson. And as a trained engineer, he studied all the sciences, including quantum mechanics, relativity, cosmology, anthropology, and archaeology. God has been busy, and he even studied reincarnation, mystics UFOs, because he wanted to look at reality from every perspective he could think of. Now he’s booked the endless journey is the culmination of this personal quest. He explains our nature and provides uplifting guidance as to how we should make the most of our lives, especially when we say yes to the experience as spiritual beings. Now, this last statement is a huge part of life and one that we can skip over quite quickly, time and time again, saying yes to the opportunities that surround us every day. So of course, the big question of all this research is has he answered the questions about himself or after 40 years is he still as complete There’s a rest of us. And as a scientist, how did he manage to research and not dismiss some of the more out there concepts that appear in his book? Well, let’s find out, as we bring onto the show to start joining up with the one and only Mr. David Gaggin. How are you, David?
David Gaggin [3:14]
I’m very good. Thank you for having me. David,
David Ralph [3:16]
is lovely to have you here. It’s, it’s the big question, I suppose. Right? We’re going to delve into many areas of your life. And of course, we’re going to delve into the pages of the book. But the big question, David is, have you sorted yourself out? Do you know why you’re here? personally?
David Gaggin [3:35]
I do. I have sorted myself out. And it took a while that a long while, but I do think I know why I’m here. At least at least in general, maybe not every every specific instance on why I’m here but in general, I do. I do think so.
David Ralph [3:53]
I think to say to me, listen to it, David. Why Why are you here?
David Gaggin [3:57]
I okay, I’m here to write this book. That’s why I’m here, ultimately, was to write the endless journey. And it took me 40 years to figure out what to put in the book. When you
David Ralph [4:11]
look at that, that that that kind of was such a simple answer. I almost expected more. But that just demonstrates but it takes forever in a day for people to find their thing in life. It’s not easy. As I was saying in the introduction, people start off on things, and they change direction and they pivot and they keep on moving. So when you look at it now, do you think yourself I could have actually done this quicker than 40 years or was that the time needed?
David Gaggin [4:38]
Well, you know, I started out as an engineer and and I didn’t even start out college as an engineer. I started out in math and then I and then I changed over to business and then I moved into engineering and then I had some ended credits I popped out as an electrical engineer. So so I really didn’t have a plan. On on the Going after the answers the knife I didn’t know where I was headed. So So, you know, I went to often and I was an engineer and I had to make a living. So, you know, that’s what got me into working with Boeing and and, you know, the government and such so, so I certainly didn’t know where I was going. I, I just kind of chugged on, the doors would open. And usually when a door opened, I was tired of doing what I was doing at the time. Anyway, so I’d look around and I’d say, All right, let’s try something else. This looks like a good thing to do. And I did, I’d hop into it and, and, and so could I have done it quicker. I’d have to have a lot more, a lot more guidance, maybe a lot more knowledge to do it quicker. I think I think it just gotta happen because that’s, you know, that’s what I was born with. That’s what I came with. And it took me a while to figure it out. So So do you think that he’s kind
David Ralph [5:59]
of long Generally that people just get tired of things, you know, you know, people always say when you find your passion when you find your thing, that’s the moment but you think more often than not, it’s just that you get fed up with doing something. And so you take an opportunity.
David Gaggin [6:14]
I think we have a plan in life. And I think and I think that that’s all part of the plan. And there’s things that we learned along the way we learned about ourselves, we learned about other people. So So it seems to us in the middle of it, that you just got tired of it, but I’m not sure that there isn’t a bigger a bigger reason a bigger cause for that. And and you get tired of it because you’ve learned what you’re supposed to learn at that particular point in life and through that job and those experiences, and you need to push yourself and go learn some other things. So, you know, I truly don’t think there’s an awful lot of accidents on this on this world. And I think I think if we just follow The guidance we have free will of course, so we don’t have to follow it. But I think if you let yourself go, you know, your, your your body your mind tells you when it’s time to move on and and and i think that’s that’s part of it. So when you’re tired of something, I think it’s part of the plan and and and you have to react to it. I think
David Ralph [7:18]
you’re right To be honest, I think we ignore our body signals so much don’t we we ignore the moments when the alarm clock goes off and you look at it, oh my god, it’s another day is another week and then a kind of signals that you really have to be aware of that. If it’s taking all your effort to get out of bed, then maybe you’re not doing the thing that you should be doing.
David Gaggin [7:43]
I think that’s absolutely true. I think if, if you’re where you want to be, you’re enjoying what you’re doing. You’re challenged by it. Maybe Maybe it seems a little scary when you start. If it doesn’t, then it’s you probably haven’t have haven’t reached quite high enough for where you want to be. And I and I think it’s a challenge. And I don’t know about you, but every time I got a new job, even if I didn’t change companies, but I got a new job, it would take me one to two years, try to figure out how to do it and get comfortable with it. Those are the years that you do all the learning. And after you’ve, you’ve been there a while and you’ve learned things and things that seemed like Well, I have no idea how I’m going to do this to start with all of a sudden, you get it. And now it’s time to start looking around for some more responsibility for some of the things that might and and all of a sudden those doors open. It’s amazing.
David Ralph [8:36]
Well, I say don’t I did the best Prime Ministers the best presidents are the ones lit closing the door behind them, because they’ve experienced over that period of time. And if you think about being a prime minister and stuff, you know, you talk about going into a job and it’s taking you two years. You imagine how frightening that must be but you you’re basically telling people you can do a job before you do it. And then you go in and instantly you’ve got to be better. proving yourself that must be a terrible job to do mustn’t it?
David Gaggin [9:03]
You also have huge responsibilities and every decision you make probably cost people certainly their their welfare, but very often their lives. You’ve got to, you know, if you’re if you’re at that level of government, or you’re making big time decisions, and probably a little scary to that could worry about that I get that one writer did I get you to think that?
David Ralph [9:27]
What in all levels of success Do you think that people are still scared? Did you think that Barack Obama wakes up every morning goes oh my God, I’ve got to pretend I’m the president all day and and Richard Branson has the same fears or do you think they get to a certain point and it eases out somewhat?
David Gaggin [9:45]
I think if you get to a certain point and it eases out. I think in the beginning, I don’t think there’s any question about it. But I think once you start getting comfortable with what it is you may be making the right decisions or not making the right decisions, but but I think you you You get comfortable with it. And if you don’t, I think you bail out but I think most people most people get get comfortable with it takes a little while. But I think he gets it. I think I think things Stop being so new. You know, when you started when you start a new job, everything’s new people, you’re working with a new technology, the topics are new, the subjects the problems, but once you’re in a job for a while, then all of a sudden you start seeing, you know, the same type of things come back, maybe not every day and all the time. But some of them you already understand. So it’s not you don’t have to start fresh out of problem. So now you’re just getting up to speed a little bit and then you can start putting more time into other things. So you start getting more comfortable and the oddball things don’t stand out as much if once you’ve been there for a while.
David Ralph [10:50]
So Have you always been somebody that challenges the status quo and looks around with slightly different eyes. I found the in the introduction. I’ve found that was quite a big statement that Yeah, you’re a teenager, you’re sitting in the church. And you think I don’t know what the truth is. But this, isn’t it. Now, as a teenager, I don’t think I was bothered about the truth. He was just day in day out, he just kind of lived. Well, why did why do you think you felt that at that time,
David Gaggin [11:17]
because I think, even though I didn’t know it at the time, I think that was why I came. It was it was, it was the main thing that I needed to do that I wanted to do in this lifetime. So even though I did not recognise that at all them, I still had it in me, I still had, you know, we have these life plans and we have them in our subconscious and and so, you know, even very early on I was always questioning I was always I was interested in science, the science of the right answer and and of course, when you’re very young, you think well, maybe it does course then you get into it, you realise, you know, it really doesn’t and and so you’re looking around for it. So I think I was appropriate. I’m that way, I’ve always been programmed to challenge I never accept anything, but I never really dis discard anything. Either I take it, I take what people say, and and if I don’t understand it, I’ll put it, I’ll kind of put it on the shelf, and I won’t. And I will say, well, that’s not true. And I won’t say it is true. Well, I’ll just say, you know, I have to consider that. When I when I put it all together, I don’t want to throw the idea out. And you know, that it was interesting. I found that when I when I did my research, you know, I’d read books and and they seemed like they made sense, but they weren’t making sense to me. And and so, I put the book on the shelf and I’d say, you know, Someday, I’ll get back to this and then I’d move on and move on. And, and and I found there certain bodies of knowledge that were that I needed to get an stand before I could, I could understand some of the books that I was reading. And and so it took me a while to get that. But but it’s but it was the it was the nature I think of saying, hey, it’s all got to fit. You know, in our museums, they have all these things in the back room that they can’t explain. It didn’t work for me. I had to be able to explain it all. It all had to fit and work for me. And it was really like that right from the beginning.
David Ralph [13:28]
So, so easy for you. Is it like a giant jigsaw puzzle that you’re just moving the pieces around desperately trying to fit them together and then every now and again, a little bit sort of gets built up and you go, Okay, that looks good. I leave that that must be a corner and then you carry on working? Is that is that how you’re sort of 40 years of studying research took you to the the endless journey being published?
David Gaggin [13:53]
I think so. You know, I think that’s a good way to put it. I think you know, you’d look at it and and you know, every once in a while You’d get an aha moment, you know, something would say, hey, that really registers and you and then you, you you park that and say you know I can I can probably hang hang my hat on that, or at least a good chunk of it be nice to see how it fit into the battery of the rest of the puzzle. But you know that sounds good, it feels good. And so and so I would, you know, I would take that, and I’d stash it away. And and and then and then I’d remember the other pieces that I could get it and I stashed those away too. And I try to remember where I put those. I remember
David Ralph [14:34]
that Billy Joel wrote this song called Shades of Grey. And basically that the premise is when he was younger, everything was black and white. And if somebody says to him, this is the answer. He would argue, No, it wasn’t. But as he got older, he said it all become Shades of Grey where he kind of got a little I still don’t quite believe but I can see where you’re coming from and so it kind of dilutes some What? How have you gone through that as well? When you was a younger kid? Were you very much now this is rubbish, or were you always kind of accepting of it somehow?
David Gaggin [15:10]
I think I think I certainly was, I was certainly harder on things. I was harder early on. I was very hard on religion, because it didn’t answer my questions and I was really disappointed. I thought, Man, you know, religion if there’s any place out to be able to find out what’s going on in the world, this is it, and it’s not doing it for me. So I was I was probably a lot harder I was more black and white on religion for a while. I’ve turned around I’ve come around. I’ve seen more Shades of Grey, I think in all of the areas but I think there were certain things that I cornerstones that I felt maybe that I I you know, I was disappointed in and and
David Ralph [15:57]
Davey, but what we disappointed it
David Gaggin [15:59]
well, I I think religion, I think I think I look at Christianity. And and I started out with, you know, with with, hey, this is you know, you know, this is this is truth and then I started questioning people and I question the pastor i’d question everybody I could, and that and the more I looked at it, you know, pretty soon we’d get into discussions and arguments and pretty soon it was, Well, you’ve got to base it on faith. Well, you know, I, I struggled with that. And, and I, you know, and there’s faith and there’s blind faith. And and, you know, they’d say, they tell me that, that the Bible was was was, you know, written by God wants 2000 pages of self conflicting text that has had 350,000 revisions to and and, and I look at it and I say, Well, you know, that that’s probably not not plausible. So so I was disappointed there until I went back and start studying the ancient religions and found out that maybe what do you said and what Buddha said, and what Krishna said and what they you banish ads, which were the, the ancient Hindu texts, and they were all about the same thing they told about the same story. So I was able to go back and see a bigger picture. But I was disappointed with with things that I that I saw, I was disappointed with things like science, I’m disappointed with the Big Bang Theory. So so there’s, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of bits and pieces that, you know, I thought should be right, in my black and white world, that over time I realised or how they fit together. I think it’s strange, though,
David Ralph [17:39]
isn’t it, but you’re disappointed on things like the big bang theory, because that’s just a theory. You know, nobody can really prove it. So I can’t imagine personally being disappointed or happy. It’s just something that’s said to me and I listened to it. And I find a lot of that with science, but it doesn’t seem to be clear enough for me, so I’m not going to spend enough time making an appraisal on it, if that makes sense.
David Gaggin [18:06]
Yeah, it does make sense and, and I feel exactly like you do these days. But when I was younger, and I was, you know, trying to trying to figure out what was going on in life, I think I expected more from the various communities, maybe they religion, scientific, whatever, I expected more. And, and I was disappointed that that, you know, I wasn’t able to find what I wanted to find. Now, over time that goes away. But I think as a young man, yeah, I think I was
David Ralph [18:40]
humans generally looking for something Do you think because I think we are where we never settled Are we really even if we’re, you know, Uber successful, we’re always looking for something else to get our teeth into and sort of move on is that what has made humans so successful and sort of dominated the world for so many years?
David Gaggin [19:00]
Yeah, I think there’s no question about it. I think we, we all feel inside that we’re part of something bigger. And and and we can’t we can’t see that very clearly and I think that’s what what’s what’s so attractive to religion for for most people because it says hey you’re a piece of, of something else you know you’re you’re larger than than what you really think you are now they you know each religion has its own spin on that, but I think everybody is looking to be to be part of a larger community something something bigger something that says that, that we’re there’s there’s more to life than just this little tiny world we live in.
David Ralph [19:43]
How do I do that then how do they start to be part of a bigger picture and actually move on and do something but, you know, ultimately could take them 40 years but they’re willing to undertake that journey. I’ve got a gentleman Coming on next week, and I should have recorded him a couple of days ago, but it didn’t quite work out. And he was the first man to go all the way around the Earth under his own power. So he walked, and he rolled a skated. And he cycled, and it took him 13 years. So when he set off, he knew that he wasn’t going to see his family for 13 years. And that blows my mind. But somebody can have that, that much of work in front of them and they’re still willing to take it on. Now, you will like your 40 years. Why do you think people can’t see you, but sometimes it will take 30 years, but this that, I’m willing to go for that because at the end goal, those 30 years are going to pass anyway.
David Gaggin [20:43]
Well, they are I tell you, as far as I was concerned, I didn’t know it was going to take me 30 or 40 years to do this journey. I I was just chugging down the line you know you’re living a life that we live lives, right? Yeah. You’re and you’re earning a living, you’re raising kids, you’re buying homes, you paying off mortgages, here, you have all your daily problems. And then you have these things that, that, that fascinate you, these things that you you continue to want to want to do and pursue. And I think I think a lot of that is just kind of kind of life goes on. And and you don’t you don’t necessarily it certainly in my case, you know, I didn’t sit down and say, Well, I’m going to spend the next 40 years researching this. I just, I just started out looking at much smaller problems. And and it just kind of grew every time I’d read a book and I’d find the book interesting. I’d look in the back of the book for a bibliography and then I’d go through and I checked all of the all of the books that I thought were interesting, and then I go see if I could find them. And you can go to the library or you know, of course, now you could just go to amazon.com and see if they’ve got it and gentlemen show up in two days. But you know, it’s a type of thing that just kind of leads to some now as far as walking around the Earth, on your own power, and bicycling and whatever, that’s, that’s a big, that’s a big goal. And that’s, I don’t I don’t know what drives somebody to do that. I’m not driven to do that. But obviously he was at its head, it’s great that he was able to accomplish it.
David Ralph [22:24]
But But your book is called the endless journey, but you’ve completed it. So So how does that come about? How did that title come to you?
David Gaggin [22:33]
Well, the endless journey I did not complete the endless journey I completed the book called The endless journey. That’s a big difference than what I call the endless journey in the book. The endless journey is what we are on as spiritual beings. And and and the goal in life is the perfection of the soul. And and we do that through life after life. We do it through eternity in is an endless task, and every spirit, every being that ever existed or exists today, they all have the same, the same goal. It’s what we do. It’s what we’re supposed to do in life. So the endless journey is not was not for me to write the book. The endless journey is what we’re all on.
David Ralph [23:23]
But But what are we on that that’s the bit that’s fascinating me because I know some people that are quite happy to just sit on the sofa every day and not get a job, you know, day in day out so what are we all on them?
David Gaggin [23:36]
Well, we’re on a trip we’re on a trip to debt to perfect the salt and perfect the soul means learning truth learning, wisdom, and growing and, and we have free will. We can choose to sit on the sofa. And and I think there’s an important part of everybody’s life sitting on that sofa. But what you can’t Your life sitting on the sofa, you can if you choose, but you’re not going to make an awful lot of progress on raising your consciousness and moving on in life, you have free will. And you can do it if you choose. But sooner or later you got to get down to the business of life and the business of life is growing, having experiences and and learning from those experiences. See I see us as being on this earth which is a a difficult person to be on. And and a lot of problems and and we’re here to learn emotional wisdom. I do not believe you can learn emotional wisdom very well in a safe world like the spiritual world. So you have come down here and you can experience fear and hate vengeance. And and and you can you can experience emotions and understand yourself who is what we’re really trying to figure out And and learn who we are, and, and how things operate. And and that’s a, that’s a long task, there’s a lot of information to learn. And quite frankly, you’ll learn that, whether you’ll want to or not, I suspect even if you’re sitting on the sofa, you get aggravated in life problems come to you. Now, our job is is to react to those problems, we can react any way we want, we can we can accept the problem for what they are and try to deal with it before we can get ourself all upset and frustrated. And, and mad at the world and such like that. So there’s a lot of different ways that we can react to them. But we’re all here to learn. And that’s and that’s the bottom line. And we and and and we do with this life that we do at another level, and then another level, and you do it until you you mastered what we’re supposed to master and then you go to something else somewhere else and learn other things.
David Ralph [26:01]
Let’s play some words. But I like to throw in on the show every now and again. Well say every now and again, literally every show because I mean, they’re hugely powerful. These are the words that Jim Carrey said recently,
Jim Carrey [26:11]
my father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love
David Ralph [26:37]
mean anything to those kind of words, David?
David Gaggin [26:39]
I do they do. I i think i think he’s absolutely right. I think we do take safe safe paths. And and, and sometimes they work out. Sometimes they don’t. And and I think I think you need to be courageous in life. I think the more courageous you are and the more you stay Your neck out, the more you’re going to learn, the more you’re going to get out of life. It’s not that you won’t get things out of life if you if you sit back and, and are afraid to move forward, but you’ll get more out of it. You’ll be you’ll push yourself to the limit, and you’ll maximise what you can get out of this particular lifetime. Yeah, I think it’s great.
David Ralph [27:21]
And do you believe in things like reincarnation? Ben, you’ve mentioned a couple of times about different lives. Did you do buy into that as well?
David Gaggin [27:28]
I do. I do. I buy it. And I’ll tell you, that was probably the biggest stumbling block that I had, trying to figure out what was going on in life. I started out in in as a basketball. This Battalion, I was you know, obviously scientifically oriented, so I was programmed against reincarnation. And it took me probably a decade from the time that it first dawned on me it This might answer a lot of questions because I was time that I was finally able to convince myself that it was the only plausible explanation that I could think of it was the only likely likely solution. And as I said, definitely 10 years to figure it out,
David Ralph [28:14]
but solution to wall, what was it the only likely solution to
David Gaggin [28:18]
it was the solution to trying to figure out the answers to life. It is a key part of an overall philosophy that is in the endless journey, that that that you know, when you’re looking for a worldview, and that’s and that’s really what the endless journey is. It’s a philosophy, it’s a worldview. It’s it’s how you see yourself and how you see the rest of the world fitting together and working together. And and reincarnation turned out to be a critical piece. And once I bought into that, and I bought into it because I convinced myself from looking at every aspect that I could, that that was the right way to go. And then I was able to go back and read other things can investigate other areas and see them very, very differently. These were the books that I went and put back on the shelf because I didn’t get it. And, and, and when I was able to take those out and and see those from a different perspective, all of a sudden, an awful lot of it came back came together. For me. It was it was amazing. So that was a key piece.
David Ralph [29:26]
I think I would struggle with that. I would struggle with things like reincarnation, I’m a very open minded person. But on something like that, there’s no proof is there there’s no proof at all. So how can you be turned in 10 years to buy into something?
David Gaggin [29:41]
Number one, there’s no proof of literally anything. I mean, we don’t science doesn’t prove anything. You know, we say okay, there’s relativity and everybody’s happy with that. And then we look at quantum mechanics and everybody’s happy with that to a certain extent. But but they don’t fit together. They haven’t been proven. They have been shown To work in certain areas, but they don’t fit together one works in the macro world one works in the micro world. So so so something has to change. Those are not proven theories. Well, none of its really proven. And and and and that’s the same way as as it is with reincarnation but if you look at things if you look at things like hypnotic regression and you and and you investigate that phenomena and and if you look at things like in human Stevenson’s where biology and reincarnation come together fascinating studies that they’ve done medical studies that they’ve done on on upon reincarnation and and and, and if there’s a lot of different areas that you can look at, you can come from this problem from many, many perspectives. The problem is most of us don’t, and I was in the exact same situation. I first got that I first looked at it and I thought, No, I don’t how this is going to work. But if you look at it from from multiple perspectives, scientific, psychiatric, a number of perspectives, you’ll you can convince yourself very easily that it’s the only thing that makes sense.
David Ralph [31:15]
So what are some of the other things you studied as well, Ben and I were consulted, delve into the sort of the, the, the ancient publications like the books of the dead and things like that. But things like say UFOs. Now, thousands of millions of people totally believe in those, and probably equal amounts, I think is a load of old Tosh. So when you were researching that, why, what was that? Because ultimately, we could have come from them. How did that fall into the mix that you had to research?
David Gaggin [31:46]
Well, certainly that was that was one of the things that I was looking at that we could easily have done that and if you look at they’ve come up with things like how you familiar with the clay clay tablets, of super Hmm yes I am okay and and in the in those clay tablets these these are tablets that are there’s like 40,000 of them they found there’s probably more around but they’re over in Iran and nobody’s letting us dig dig there anymore at least right now but but these these tablets layout and amazing things and and what they do is they explain the society that lived in summer five to 8000 years ago and this society had had government that was that that was just like ours. Three Three piece government that was an executive, judicial and legislative branch. It had universities, they had zoos, like they had. It’s amazing what they had. It was very, very similar. We have hospitals, irrigated farms. I mean, you could go on and on on these things. And and, and so the written cuneiform each tablet is about, I’d say four inches by six inches or three inches by four inches. They’re all different shapes. And and they’re absolutely fascinating. And, and, and what they what they paint is they paint a picture of a very sophisticated society that has no that has no history, it just all of a sudden appear. Now archaeologists have been reading cuneiform for 150 years and and we understand it, everybody is pretty comfortable cubicle. So everybody believes all these things that they have. But there’s a part of those those cuneiform tablets that that people say, Well, that’s a myth. And why did they say they’re myth? Well, they just don’t fit the theories that we have. And, and some of the things that it says on this, they said that they walk with their gods. Odds, and gods were little G and plural. They weren’t the big g that created the universe. And and they said that their gods were flesh and blood. The gods that they said were the Annunaki, who came from another planet thousands of years ago. Their Gods gave them civilization, which is good that they said that because we can’t figure out where it came from. Their God loves them and help them. The stories that that that they described are many of the old Bible stories in Genesis like Adams and he Adam and Eve, Noah’s Ark, but the gods or replace God in the in the Bible story, so they weren’t saying that God that created the universe was there. They said the gods these are other people. And then they said, which would kind of blow you away, but they claim that their gods created humanity by mixing their DNA with the prehistoric bands, in other words, where their job That’s what the tablets say. Now, our archaeologists say, you know, that’s, that’s a myth because it doesn’t fit our theory. And it may be a myth or may not be a myth, but I wasn’t really willing. Just call that a myth. So I said, Okay, let’s, let’s investigate this. Let’s, let’s look at this from another perspective. Let’s, let’s see if this really is a myth. And and that’s, and that’s what got me into, into looking at you up and I started thinking, Okay, what, you know, what’s going on here? You know, we all you know, being a scientist, I was brought up, you know, Let’s laugh at the CFA UFOs. But But and many of the reports are nonsense, but some of them like the ones in the in the late 90s. They, they they report UFO reports over over Phoenix, Arizona. Were at night or 10,000 people saw including their the governor that went from Right over the Phoenix airport. All right, it’s, it’s, it’s hard to just sit here and say it’s nonsense. So so those are the type of things that got me into it. And that’s why I was looking at it.
David Ralph [36:12]
But But the problem with all that is, but ultimately, if you look at anything with certain eyes, you’re going to make sense of it on you. That’s that’s the thing. And the thing we with the book, what you’ve done your 40 years to sort of answer so many questions, you’re answering questions that haven’t got any answers. So how do you create about how do you sort of make the culmination of your personal quest Johnny that he just leaves loads of unanswered questions.
David Gaggin [36:41]
It doesn’t leave as many as you would think. If you’re looking for proof, as I said, Nobody proves anything. But if you’re looking for what’s plausible, what’s the most likely answer? Then all of a sudden, you’ll find that people like why Like Plato, and and even Einstein, to a certain extent, had some amazing ideas that were incredibly consistent. And if you look down that down throughout mankind’s past in history, there’s an awful lot of information that’s been Pooh poohed by whoever wanted to, to bad mouth it. But the key is, if you looked at all of the different things, all the hypnotic regressions, all the near, near death experiences, all the the remote viewing all of the things that are being done, and some of these things are being done in the, you know, in the, in the government in, in classified programmes. And, and, and if you look at them all, and you put it all together, you can come up with some amazing answers, but you have to be open to it. And yeah, and you can’t chop anything off. But you just have to say what’s the most plausible and what’s and then all the people is half that fit together? Before you finally, before you finally say, hey, that’s probably the answer.
David Ralph [38:06]
So So did you look at the endless journey? Do you look at it as something that you are hugely proud? Or is it a definitive work? Or is it just the start of something else?
David Gaggin [38:18]
No, I think it’s a, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s definitive to the extent that, that, that it stands alone, you know, and whether I write something else to help explain it or or, you know, offer the implications of it or not, I’m toying with those type of things. But there’s enough information in there to make it thing and the purpose of the book is not to convince anybody of anything, because I can’t, nor can anybody else. You have to convince yourself, you have to look at the facts and convince yourself. What I’ve tried to do in the book is say, hey, there’s other things that you’re automating Okay, here’s a way forward. And and you need to go if you’re interested. And and I think most people would be if they thought that there was a, that they could find a solution. It said hearing here you Here are some ideas that can get you started. This will, you know, look at these, and I give them many, many references many places to go pick a subject that you’re interested and go delve into it and see what you think about it. So it’s really trying to get people to think and not just take things like either science or religion has at blind faith.
David Ralph [39:40]
When you were studying things like say UFOs and then there are certain people out there in the widest sense are a little bit strange. Did you were you glad but you had your science science brain could easily have been bought into their their passions, somewhat Bye, by the way that they communicated with you.
David Gaggin [40:03]
Yeah, I think you’re absolutely right. You can you have to use your discrimination and and then you have to put the what you find into perspective. And and then the question is how important is it? Is it is it critical to your to your view of life, that UFOs are real or not real. And, and in my world, in my view, it’s not critical. It’s interesting. Matter of fact, it’s fascinating, but, but is it really important? You know, I look at the universe, and I, and I am staggered to believe that intelligence out there doesn’t know where here. If you look at that, it’s a big place admittedly, but you look at our science and our sciences in its infancy. We’ve only really been playing around with it for a couple hundred years. And the end, if you take a society that’s 1000 years ahead of us, then then you think of what our science would look like in 1000 years. How about 10,000 years? How about a million years, you could easily find societies out there that are a million years ahead of us. Well, those societies have got to be so much more advanced than we are, that that it would, it would really surprise me if the universe was an absolutely chock full of like, two big place just for us to have the only only life on planet on this planet. And it would really surprise me if they didn’t have the capability and the technology to come here. Now, do they? I don’t know. I think they probably do. But I’m not sure it’s that important. It’s interesting, but it’s not really that critical. They’re clearly not here to take over us and anybody it’s a million years or 100,000 years ahead of us wouldn’t have much trouble But they they’ve probably advanced to the point where they they’re not interested. They, you know, they haven’t destroyed themselves. So they’ve probably grown conscious like past where we are these days. So so I think Yeah, I think that’s one of the areas that you look at. But it’s but it doesn’t have to be a pivotal area. It’s an interesting area.
David Ralph [42:23]
I can see how it all ties together. And I can see with that kind of the the analogy of the perfect ultimate jigsaw puzzle how one story will tie up vaguely with another one and another one, and you kind of look at it with Well, the same stories are coming back time and time and time again, for thousands and thousands of years. There’s got to be some element of truth to it. I can totally buy into that. But what I do find is but it’s generally humans like the weird stuff, and it’s the weird stuff that interests them and the factual stuff that kind of bores them somehow. And because we spend more time looking at The weird stuff and the conspiracy theories and all that kind of stuff. We don’t really assess what’s right in front of us. And I think most of it is just life isn’t it? Isn’t it isn’t life just what it is one day leads into another and we make decisions good and bad. And we we live by them.
David Gaggin [43:19]
I think I think you’re right. I think I think we get, we get caught up in that because we have busy lives. And and, and when you’re busy, you know, you’ve got to pay the rent. And and so you know, it’s great to go, go do a do an analysis of something. But you gotta spend the time paying the rent and you can’t pay the rent if you haven’t gone to work today. So so so there’s no question that we get tied up into the day to day things. Are people interested in the in the titillating stuff? Yeah, I think I think they are. But I think as as you get into science and some of these theories that the guys are putting out whether they’re right or wrong, some of them are pretty Pretty interesting. And, and, and I think if people start realising that, you know, that, that the cosmos is the most fascinating thing on, you know, that you could imagine. And and and once we start understanding it better, I think people would be more interested in, but I think a lot of people, they haven’t had the opportunity or maybe they didn’t think that they had, they had the ability to, to really come up with with these kinds of answers. So they’ve, they’ve kind of gone off and done their own thing and in life and, and gotten consumed by other things, instead of really taking a look and saying, hey, these answers are here for us. And, and and if we, if we, if we look and if we, you know, if we investigate and if we use our reasoning discrimination capabilities, we can, we can, we can find some of these answers, and we can see who we are and why we’re here. I think it’s all about To us, well, I think we get tied up in, in our in our day to day life and we don’t want
David Ralph [45:07]
Well, just before I play the theme of the show, and we end up sending you back in time, why should somebody go out and buy your book? What kind of person is going to enjoy? Or is there not a fixed person?
David Gaggin [45:20]
You know, I don’t think there’s a fixed person I think it helps if you’re a seeker. Certainly, I think if you You know, I’ve had a lot of success with people that have, have been depressed and and, and frustrated with life and had a lot of anxiety and fears. And I think if people find themselves in a position in life, where where they where they really you know, are struggling with, with with what’s going on psychologically from a day to day basis, you know, they’ve lost the loved one recently. You know, if they if they could see the bigger picture and and get them A view that maybe they hadn’t thought of before. I think those people have have had a lot of success with the book is to make your thing and and if and if you want to be a speed reader and and go through it an hour and a half, you probably won’t get much out of it. But but if you want to if you want different ideas and different perspectives that you can not necessarily be convinced by but you can say, Boy, you know, I ought to look into that, you know, these things. These concepts are new to me. And, and I’d like to I’d like to see what kind of truth is in them. I think those are the type of people that would get an awful lot out of it.
David Ralph [46:38]
And are you a happier person for delivering it to the world?
David Gaggin [46:42]
I think so. No question about it. I think it was a it was a weight off my shoulders. When I finished writing the book took me about three years. I had to retire and get the business world totally out of my head before I could even start my you know, being the CEO of a corporation. I had to You’re really on 24 seven, you know, even if you’re even if you’re on vacation, you’re, you’re on. And, and, and I and I just walked away from the business world, completely cold turkey. And it was the only way that I could get all of that, that nonsense out of my mind so that I could concentrate on something like this and then, and then I had already done the research, and I basically knew the answer. But you know, if you sit down and say, Well, what do you believe in life? You know, you got a blank piece of paper, when you believe in life, then you’re an engineer, right? You’re not yet you know, you know, they say we don’t know how to spell it talk. Well, that may be the case. But But the fact of the matter is, you know, you’re you’re starting from scratch on on concepts that are so broad and then you say, Okay, let’s try to make these clear enough so people can understand what you’re talking about. And, and and not make them so technical, that it’s this big philosophy book that nobody can read.
David Ralph [48:01]
Well, this is the end of the show. Now, this is the part that we call the Sermon on the mic when we send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the younger David, what age would you choose? And what advice would you give? Well, we’re going to find out because I’m going to play the theme tune. And when it bails you out, this is the Sermon on the mic.
Sermon On The Mic [48:24]
Here we go with the best of the show.
David Gaggin [48:43]
You know, I think I’d probably go back to about the time I got out of college, probably 2223 years old. And I’d go back and and I tell myself the following. Don’t chase materialism. fault goal. The things which are important in life are the experiences we have. Not the rewards we see, receive. Learn to detach yourself from the material benefits of your efforts. Be a seeker of wisdom and truth. The answers to life’s greatest mysteries like who we are, is there God? Is there life after death are available to us. If we search for that, in fact, the answers are right in front of us. Just the sky is within nature. The purpose of existence is the perfection of the soul. It’s why we exist. selfless service is the goal and the standard of conduct to strive for. We don’t have to be perfect in this life because we have eternity on our side. We just need to be ever so slightly better today than we were yesterday. The subject matter of this particular life is to learn about ourselves. We are a microcosm of both the cosmos and the universal consciousness. What we learn about ourselves is directly applicable to every other being and every other thing. The spiritual world is our permanent home. And it’s where we reside. When we’re not having a living experience. That should be viewed as a positive experience, because we are simply returning home. Think of this life as a temporary excursion, like a business trip. And when it’s over, we return home to digest what we learned from it. Don’t be afraid to change your mind, as life’s experiences are supposed to teach you new thing. In fact, we learn more from our mistakes than our successes. It’s easy to make the correct decisions in life. Simply do what you don’t want to do. But know is right. Everyone in the room you interface with, even your adversaries are helping you learn your lessons. So be gracious to all you make. We create the world we live in, by the decisions we make. who we are and where we are, was determined by past decisions. But who we will become will be determined by decisions not yet made. Don’t look to others to solve your problem. If you’re not happy with your life, You would only do can change it. Don’t be discouraged by world events. No matter how bad the world appears. Just remember that the troubles you are seeing result from ignorance not evil, as evil does not exist. What we are witnessing in the Middle East and other areas of conflict is simply the karma from thousands of year old years of war, working itself out. And maybe the most important advice I can give you is this. Life is not an accident. And the fact that you incarnated into the diff this difficult life, which was your choice, means you are brave and intrepid by nature. You are on an incredibly long journey and have worked far harder and longer to get where you are than you can possibly imagine. You cannot prevent life’s problems from affecting you. But you have a choice as to how you react to them. You can be happy with life or stress by it’s your choice, because you have free will.
That’s basically what I would say.
David Ralph [53:18]
How can our audience connect with you, David?
David Gaggin [53:22]
I have a website, which is David gaghan. Calm that’s David g a g GIN. They, the book is available on amazon.com you can get to it through through my website. I also have Facebook and on Facebook and Twitter. And and you can you can contact me through email from my website. It’s easy to do. I’d love to hear from
David Ralph [53:48]
will have over links on the show notes. David, thank you so much for spending time with us today and joining those dots and please come back again when you have more dots to join up because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to Build a futures. David, thank you so much.
David Gaggin [54:03]
Thank you David. I enjoyed it.
David Ralph [54:07]
Thanks for listening to today’s episode of Join Up Dots brought to you exclusively by podcast is mastery.com. The only resource that shows you how to create a show, build an income and still have time for the life that you love. Check out podcasters mastery.com. Now,
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