Welcome to the Join Up Dots business coaching podcast With Judy Robinett
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Introducing Judy Robinett
Judy Robinett is todays guest joining us on the Join Up Dots business coaching podcast.
Known for her titanium rolodex, our guest today speaks and consult with professionals, entrepreneurs, and businesses on the topics of strategic networking.
Also relationship capital, startup funding strategy, strategic alliances, and leadership.
In her more than 30 years of experience as an entrepreneur and corporate leader, she has served as the CEO of both public and private companies.
Also in management positions at Fortune 500 companies.
She has been on the advisory boards of Illuminate Ventures, an early-stage venture capital firm based in Menlo Park, California; Pereg Ventures, a venture capital firm based in New York; Springboard Enterprises based in Washington, DC; and Women Innovate Mobile (WIM) accelerators based in New York.
How The Dots Joined Up For Judy
But nowadays it is really as a speaker and author of business books such as How to Be a Power Connector: The 5+50+100 Rule for Turning Your Business Network into Profits , a book that provides instant, effective strategies for meeting the people you need to know and bonding with them fast to further your goals and theirs.
As she says, “I’m all about dots -most people don’t have, cant connect the ones they’ve got or more importantly don’t leverage for the good of all. Sad because nothing happens without people and all resources are connected to them. With seven billion folks on earth, $369 trillion in global private wealth, countless opportunities and information doubling in less than six months – there is no scarcity of resources to achieve any dream!”
So what is it about reaching out to others that is simply a gamechanger?
And why of course do so many people feel that they don’t have value to provide in return, so will run scared of reaching out?
Well lets find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots, with the one and only Judy Robinett
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Judy Robinett such as:
Why so many people feel that if they keep their head down and work hard then they will get noticed, and this is a complete fairy-tale.
How she remembers never believing that she would ever write a book, and now has seen it open unbelievably big doors for her.
Why two amazing ways to break the ice with someone is simply to ask either a question or to give a compliment, and you will be conversing.
How she can now see that if you connect the dots using people in diverse areas you will get where you want to go much faster.
How Debbie Reynolds was once told when asking what she should do next in her career “Listen to you heart and the answer will be perfect!”
Products By Judy Robinett
How To Connect With Judy Robinett
You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here – enjoy
Audio Transcription Of Judy Robinett Interview
David Ralph [0:00]
Today’s show is brought to you by podcasters mastery.com, the premier online community teaching you to podcast like a pro. Check us out now. podcasters mastery.com
when we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling join up dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK David Ralph
David Ralph [0:37]
Yes. Hello, everybody. This is David Ralph This is join up dots and this is episode 364 of the motivational, inspirational conversation or chat. And it’s been a lovely day in the United Kingdom today. So I’m feeling particularly good. It’s one of those sort of nice days that you almost filled it summer’s here, but obviously we’re still in April. So there’s a way to go yet. But today’s guest is a lady from America and she is somebody that probably it feels like it’s summer every day in her life. She’s known for her to titanium Rolodex. That’s a great thing to have. Our guest today speaks and consults with professionals, entrepreneurs and businesses on the topics of strategic networking relationship capital, startup funding strategy, strategic alliances and leadership. I don’t understand half of that. Now. I know she does because in more than 30 years of experience as an entrepreneur and corporate leader, she served as a CEO of both public and private companies and also in management positions at fortune 500 companies. She’s been on the advisory boards of illuminate ventures, an early stage venture capital firm based in Menlo Park, California, correct ventures, a venture capital firm based in New York, he moves round of it, springboard enterprises based in Washington, and women innovative mobile accelerators based back in New York. But nowadays, it’s really as a speaker and author of business books such as how to be a power connector, the five plus 50 plus hundred will be turning your business networks into profits, a book that provides instant effective strategies for meeting the people you need to know. And bonding with them fast to further your goals and bears. As she says, I’m all about dots most people don’t have or can’t connect the ones I’ve got, or more importantly, don’t leave which but a good of all said, Because nothing happens without people and all the resources are connected to them. With 7 billion folks on earth 369 trillion in global private wealth, countless opportunities and information doubling in less than six months. There is no scarcity of resources to achieve any dream you listening to that listeners, there’s no scarcity, we can just go out and get it. So what is it about reaching out to others, but it’s simply a game changer. And why of course there’s so many people feel that they don’t have value to provide in return. So we’ll run scared of reaching out well let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start join up dots with the one and only Judy Robinett. How are you today?
Judy Robinett [3:05]
I’m great David and I’m really excited to be here.
David Ralph [3:08]
It’s lovely to have you on because we were chatting just beforehand and we’re going out drinking away as soon as I go over to America, we’re gonna meet up and we’re gonna knock a few pints or bottles. What what’s your typical
Judy Robinett [3:22]
David Ralph [3:23]
And one or plenty?
Judy Robinett [3:27]
Well, you know, I’m really into hot chocolate. So it’s probably a couple of cups,
David Ralph [3:31]
couple of cups. So while we were just relaxing a couple of cups of fat. So So whereabouts are we speaking to you at the moment? Where’s your base?
Judy Robinett [3:40]
So I’m in Idaho right now. So I don’t know how many of you have watched the movie Napoleon Dynamite. I grew up in that same neighborhood in Preston Idaho. I’ll be
David Ralph [3:52]
honest, I’ve never heard of it. Napoleon.
Judy Robinett [3:56]
That’s okay. It’s kind of a cult movie over here.
David Ralph [4:00]
Have to look it up, I have to look it up. So the fact that you aren’t based not in one of the main hubs is a drawback always nowadays with technology, it makes no difference at all. You know,
Judy Robinett [4:12]
it doesn’t make much difference. You know, Friday, I had to fly flew to Washington DC. I was a speaker at USA Today headquarters. And it takes me you know, several hours to go to the to the east coast. But I’m only an hour and a half away from Silicon Valley. So as long as you have an airport, and certainly Skype and email and LinkedIn and Twitter, you know, I’m good.
David Ralph [4:34]
And do you find that ability to connect with all those platforms? Has it literally been a game changer? Or in some way? Have we got too many? You know,
Judy Robinett [4:44]
it is a game changer. So the the one thing that that I tell people, the two platforms that I love LinkedIn has 350 million people who all joined because it’s a networking site. And then Twitter. I mean, Twitter gives you real time access almost anyone. And so I really enjoy that. But I’ll tell you, nothing takes the place of the face to face meeting where you can look someone in the eyes and find out who this person is, you know, what is their soul? Like? Do they have good character?
David Ralph [5:14]
Because I was speaking to a chap on Facebook today called Marc Seaver crop. If you’re listening mark, this is about user. And he said, Isn’t it amazing technology that we become friends because we’ve never ever met. And I said to him, it’s amazing how many friends I have got now. But I haven’t met I rarely meet anyone that I can actually touch. And I noticed those again. So it’s kind of things but it would be nice to touch touch a few more people every now and again.
Judy Robinett [5:40]
Yeah, I’ll tell you. I learned that accidentally I picked up a book written by a woman Eileen Shapiro co authored with Howard Stevenson, who is considered kind of the godfather of entrepreneur ism at Harvard. And I was so impressed with the book. She has a consult firm. And you know, I called the number thinking I would you know, get an assistant and she answered the phone. And I was really startled, but but I hit it off with her. We started talking, well guess what we did deals together for four years before we ever met. And people would say to me, when did you meet Eileen, I’d say, oh, I’ve never met her. And they’re going, you’re kidding. So you really can bond with people. And, you know, I tell people that everything you do says who you are. So you know, your emails, your tweets, all of that will give me clues indications about who you are.
David Ralph [6:28]
So I said what’s the litmus test for connecting to make sure that the lady you connected with and you did deals for four years? Was who she said she was? How do you actually really nail it? If you haven’t met her?
Judy Robinett [6:41]
Well. So Oprah has one of my favorite quotes. And it is when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. So you know, I’m, I’m 60. And so I’ve gotten a fair amount of bricks to the head. So I’m, I’m careful. So I do watch for red flags, I actually look for yellow flags. But research shows us that the first two things we look for when we meet a stranger number one is warmed, you know, is a stranger danger. The second thing we look for is a level of competence. And the third thing I look for is generosity, because just because someone can help you doesn’t mean they will.
David Ralph [7:17]
Well, we were talking about somebody, we won’t drop the name into the show. But we were talking about some a list beforehand, weren’t we who you were saying and I was saying how generous this person is with their time, even though about the very rata position but quite simply, they don’t have to be but they give it out big time don’t like,
Judy Robinett [7:36]
yes, yes. JACK Canfield. I mean, he would adore that we dropped his name. And you know, it was wonderful to meet him at the event. And we had a great time talking. He’s just like a regular person, you would you know, even though he sold 500 million books, so that, you know, there’s there’s great people at all levels.
David Ralph [7:56]
So So is the fact that he has got to the top is it based on more on relationship building and talent, is it about networks, but for the listeners out there, who’s got an idea, and they’re sitting in their booth at a cubicle, and they’re listening to these shows, is one of the best things that they can do. First of all, reach out to people and start testing the waters of what’s possible.
Judy Robinett [8:18]
Yeah. So you know, I grew up shy, I was bullied in junior high, I didn’t dare talk to anybody. And I didn’t know anybody power, wealth and influence. And even if I had, I wouldn’t have dared to ask them for help. And research shows, if you’re raised lower to middle class, we’re taught to keep our heads down, work hard. And we think someone will notice this. And it’s a fairy tale, it doesn’t work. And so one of the first things that I have people do if they were like me and frightened, is read how to win friends and influence people that helped me to get out of my shell to just say, Hello, shake hands. How are you? And Geez, I found out people liked me. And then I did have worth and up until then, you know, I really question that. And I saw myself as horribly shy. And so I have people start doing that. But first, if you think about it, we all have a network. Pew Research shows we each know about 632 people. And so I have people you know, do a mind map or just get some post its and figure out the 25 to 50 most important people in their network, and then start contacting a few of those people. share with them what your story is, where you’re going, what your goals are, your obstacles are and then I say ask my two golden questions. Number one, what other ideas do you have for me? And number two, who else do you know that I should talk to? And it’s magic, what happens? You know, I have people all the time will contact me. And they’ll say, you know, if I could just get from point A to point C, nine times out of 10, the answers they need are already in their network
David Ralph [9:53]
is astonishing, isn’t it when you say that I’m reflecting on my own network, because since I started this show, it’s actually exploding. And the fact that I have a daily conversation with people like yourself, who then connect me to 1015 people, and then they connect me. But I think that I have I use my LinkedIn like a Rolodex. And you use it as titanium Rolodex, berries, a way of using LinkedIn to really sort of boost your chances and the opportunities that are available to you. But most people don’t. Most people are like me, they just look at who’s been looking at their profile every now and again.
Judy Robinett [10:30]
Yeah, yeah. And it is important. I mean, I do put, when I meet people, I will put them into LinkedIn. You know, sometimes I’ll look at who they know. And you know, of course, it comes up and it tells you who you have in common. And you can tell you know a whole lot about that person by who they run around with, you know, we’re like chickens, we flock together. And so so it is a powerful way, one of the most powerful things as you know, you make sure that your profile represents who you are, you put on information about what you like to do for fun, like you know, like you David I’ve got a garden. But you make sure you let people see who you are and what you’re interested in. And then look for some groups that you can join. There’s millions of groups on LinkedIn. So any kind of a customer you need to acquire if you need to build a business. If you’re trying to do business Biz Dev, if you’re trying to get funding for your company, there’s groups for that. And people you know, who signed up because they want to network and they will help. And the truth is 90% of people in the world are good people and they’ll help if you ask,
David Ralph [11:36]
but as the that is the astonishing thing, but I buy into totally. But I think before I did this gig, I would have said like so many other people, they’re too busy duties too busy. Why? Why would she respond to me? I can’t provide anything to her. So why would I throw back any crumbs my way. But I do deadline, they don’t just throw back some crumbs. Throw back a whole loaf of bread most of the time.
Judy Robinett [11:59]
Yeah, I mean, I that several people I’m going to recommend to you. And if you hadn’t have already had jack on the show, I would have I would have introduced you. But but it’s true. And the reality is we as humans, we all have solutions. And we all have problems. And it doesn’t matter. I remember the first time I met a millionaire and I was kind of dazzled. And then the first time I met a billionaire and you find out every one of these people just like you has got problems. Most of them have goals are trying to get to the next level. So you know, I met jack, I saw what he was doing. I said, Hey, you know, the reason my book ended up number one on ink last year for or for 2014. The best business book is I did about four really good podcasts. And I said, Would you like me to make some introductions? Of course he did. So you know, you can figure out how to add value almost instantly with people. And often it just takes a simple thing, you just make an introduction. And that really is the most valuable currency of your network. And I say to people make to introductions a week, you know, get comfortable of asking for some advice, people are thrilled to help.
David Ralph [13:06]
So if we take you back in time to the younger Judy, the fact that you were bullied and he was very shy, how have you gone from that person to the person now that can stand up on stage, and really present a kind of mix with people effortlessly? You know,
Judy Robinett [13:24]
part of it was I was determined that I wasn’t going to be in the same class I grew up in. And I kept going, I kept taking small steps. And it validated me. I mean, you know, when you have millionaires and people of gravitas that will give you the time of day you think, okay, you know, somebody will talk to me. And so I kept taking a little more risk and a little more risk. But But honestly, a big thing for me was I was giving a speech at MIT. And somebody handed me a wall street journal and they had done some research on how to become financial Lee independent in the United States. And there were five ways be a doctor, a lawyer, inherited Marriott, and I thought, well, the first four or out a number five was started business and I thought he ha you know, how hard could it be to start a business and I came back, got a $1.2 million Small Business Administration loan that’s very popular here. And started dumb me a franchise restaurant and you know, almost went bankrupt. But when I hit the wall, I got advice. I turned it around. And you know, then I ended up being CEO of a small public company, hit the wall again, but you know, kept going and you find out every time you have a vision and a dream, Goliath shows up every time. But when you’re in the valley, that’s where you mature, that is where you gain stamina, resilience, courage. And, you know, the best thing that I could have said to myself was, I wish I would have kicked fear to the side the road, you know, so many things you think will kill you, and they don’t kill you. And almost any choice you have, can turn out good. And you know, when I was younger, I’d get a new job. And I think about a job and I’d write down the pros and the cons, you know, this would be good, this would be bad. And I take the job and all the good disappears. And but I still figure out there’s good things. So you have to be willing to take get out of that comfort zone. That’s the killer. And and you know, it’s so startling. You know, I didn’t know about the world of startups. So I do deals all over the world. I have people call me that have a billion dollars looking to invest. I didn’t grow up in that world. And it was startling. And it was there all the time. And that’s why I say everything you need is around your you just need to get in the right room.
David Ralph [15:45]
And easy, easier Bo to go to the wall and then come back once you’ve done it first is the scary time. The very first time but it’s never happened. And once you’ve dealt with it once, do you kind of go Yes. She wasn’t too. Come again.
Judy Robinett [16:01]
Yeah, absolutely. And you find out the fear was just in your head. And of course those feelings aren’t real David and recently, I read in a book that in Hebrew, there’s two words for fear. And oh, I wish I would have known this. The first one is that bad panic fear. And that’s when I grabbed dark chocolate and head to my cave. You know, I don’t want to talk to people. But the second one is the good fear when you step out of your comfort zone and you can see your future you can see your potential. And then you go, Oh, my gosh, you know, why did I stay in my cape so long?
David Ralph [16:33]
And doesn’t excite you when you say fear? But surely excitement? Isn’t it that sort of palpable
Judy Robinett [16:39]
it is it is the flip side, it is exactly the same feeling that you know, if you don’t have self worth and self confidence, and and you know, I didn’t, I didn’t think I had anything to talk to people about what on earth could I have worth to offer? You know, I didn’t go to Harvard, Stanford, I was born kind of on the wrong side of the tracks, I didn’t think I was smart. And so it was a real shock. And actually, when I started telling people at about age 38, that I was shy, they laughed at me, they told me I was really extroverted. And again, I just recently found some research that half of the people in the world identify as shy. And they’re like me, you know, they’re thinking, they’re kind of inside thinking, ooh, you know, I don’t have anything of worth Why would this person want to talk to me? And the reality is half the world thinks that and feels that same way. And if you just focus outside yourself on that other person, you know, you hit a home run, just think about how few times people acknowledge us or truly listen, Mary Kay, who’s famous for starting, you know, one of the big makeup kind of companies in the world once said that she knew what men wanted more than money and sex and it was to be acknowledged.
David Ralph [17:55]
I’d like all three to be honest.
Unknown Speaker [17:57]
David Ralph [17:58]
Yeah. I don’t know why older I’d put them in but yes, I think I think that’s about boys. And it really? Yeah, yeah. So boy, easy event, but the fees in our head are so bad. Because it is isn’t it is it is a guy it is game stopper.
Judy Robinett [18:14]
Yeah, it is. And you know, I think instinctual you were born with fear to survive, you know, that fight or flight is true to nature. But you know, we’re no longer prehistoric in the cave. And, and I think we forget to say, this is my lizard brain, you know, acting and wait a minute, you know, let’s, let’s slow down the body’s reaction, the adrenaline rush, get out of our head and get back into our prefrontal cortex. And you know, when you have that fight or flight, you’re not thinking, well, you’re hardly thinking at all, you’re like, get me the heck out of here. And, and into, I mean, when I was in the corporate world, I can remember I’d have to go to these events, I would go late and leave early, I would hang out in the corners. I mean, I just I didn’t know have kind of the emotional IQ skills. And it turned out to be so simple. Just say, Hello, just shake hands. Just focus on the other person, you know, pretend already, they’re a friend of yours.
David Ralph [19:12]
And then do you like going to those conferences now?
Judy Robinett [19:15]
No, I, I like it. I’m to the point. Now I interrupt people. So I mean, I’ve gone from being totally shy, introverted, to like off the chart extroverted. And I’ll give you an example. So I was in a Barnes and Noble bookstore is the one that I’d written my book app. And I was relaxing, drinking my hot chocolate and I listened behind me, there’s two young men talking about starting their company. And they’ve done everything right, they’ve gone through a couple of pivots, it typically takes three before you have a, a revenue model that works with a regular, consistent customer. And by the way, the two reasons startups fail number ones lack of customer number two’s lack of funding. So of course, then they start talking about funding, and they’ve got it wrong. And I turned around, and I said, Excuse me, I’m an investor. You know, I help startups. Can I share some advice with you on how to get your company funded? And they said, Sure, well, I sat down, they took notes for 20 minutes, and thanked me profusely. And at the end, the one guy said, What are you doing? And I said, Oh, I wrote a book here. And I just came to relax and kind of celebrate. He said, Tell me about the book. And you said, you know, I’m a manager, marketing email@example.com, we get about 15 million hits a month on our website, would you like me to feature your book? You know, unbeknownst, though, I’ll tell you, there are two things that happen in life that end up having the most profound effect on us. Number one is our hard work. But number two is luck. And you can create luck. And a big piece of that is how you position yourself. And also talking to strangers. Research shows we only talk to strangers, two to 3% of the time, very sad.
David Ralph [20:58]
Well, I know I speak a lot of adventurers who go around the world. And they say that they have deeper conversations with people out of necessity, because they’re in a town, but I don’t know. And they need directions, then they will do anytime in their life. They literally go to the pub had the same old conversations about the soccer scores, and the football scores and all those kind of stuff. And when you come back in the evening, you think, what did we really talk about? didn’t talk about anything at all? Yeah. So yeah, it is it is that because of the way that we operate now with texting and Facebook, and everything’s in salt, light sound bites and little snippets, that we were almost losing the ability to go deep?
Judy Robinett [21:36]
Well, I think certainly, that’s a complaint I hear about the millennial generation is they would rather not talk to you, they would rather just text you. And I’m getting a lot of requests now from folks asking me to come You know, give speeches to organizations to help people really beef up the face to face the real, you know, pick up the phone, talk to a human being meet them face to face. But you know, the reality meeting a stranger, the the two secrets that I’ve learned is, you ask a question, or you offer a compliment. And just as an example, you know, when I was in DC, I was there early, I didn’t have anything to do for a few hours. So I grabbed the train, go to the Smithsonian. And I sat by a lovely woman shot on a pretty red code. And I said something about her code. And I could tell she, you know, has an accent. So I asked her where she’s from. She tells me she’s from Russia. And I tell her what I’m doing. And she said, Oh, my gosh, you know, I’m in human resources at the Washington Post, would you like to come down and meet some of our writers? You know, another could have fallen off the chair. This is why you hire PR people and pay them $15,000 to try to get in a top tier thing. Did you feel a bit
David Ralph [22:47]
zone when that happens? doo doo doo doo doo, dude. You know,
Judy Robinett [22:50]
no, because that happens to me all the time. So when I flew home to Salt Lake, I’m stuck at the airport for about an hour and a half waiting for my ride. And I noticed that woman that has on really fancy, elegant kind of glasses. And I said to her, those are gorgeous. Where did you get them? So I combined a compliment with a question. She said, Oh, I got him in New York. Well, again, she’s got an accent, I can tell she is from the south. And turns out, she’s from Little Rock, Arkansas, she’d worked for President Clinton, she sits on one of the most powerful boards in the country. And, you know, there’s two perfect examples of I could have never had a conversation at all that I said, Hello, either ask a question or set a compliment. And guess what I’m now emailing those two women. And so you know, you posture yourself, you position yourself by just talking to strangers. And you know, even as a David I mean, you know, when we get off the call, I will be saying how can I help you? And and I do that in emails, happy to help because I know that I have a wide enough network, you just tell me where you need to get to, and I can help you get there. And we all have that power to just, you know, help someone just with an introduction, give them a little advice. And that generosity will get you everywhere.
David Ralph [24:09]
Yeah, but I’m saying that more nowadays than ever before. But I would get emails now but just says How can I help? Or you get people coming through on LinkedIn saying, I’ve looked at your profile? What is your dream or something like that? And you can respond? And maybe five years ago, I would have thought bit bizarre stalker they were. But nowadays, there seems to be a kind of virtual generosity because you feel about it’s not going to affect you somehow. Do you know what I mean? It’s not like somebody coming to your door and saying, What is your dream? You think, Oh, my God, he’s a lunatic. But because they’re just doing it over LinkedIn or whatever, you kind of respond. And it does break down the barriers, doesn’t it?
Judy Robinett [24:53]
Yes. And I think many of the thought leaders like jack Canfield, a lot of people are promoting I certainly am that generosity is the way to go. And I think people are so sick of all the scandals. I mean, the United States, Bernie Madoff, and what’s happened on Wall Street, Wall Street, people are like sick, sick, sick. And so they want people who are genuine, authentic real. And so they test the waters and you know, see if they can engage build rapport, and one of the best ways to do that is to show them who you are.
David Ralph [25:26]
But let’s play some words now one of our motivational speeches. And then what I want to do, I want to delve back into your first foray into business and how it went to the whirlwind, how you kept on going forward, and not just stopping and sort of giving it up. Bc Jim Carrey
Jim Carrey [25:42]
my father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.
David Ralph [26:09]
So have you taken a chance on doing what you love? This is the question I asked now, or have you found the thing you love by taking a chance, if that makes sense? You know,
Judy Robinett [26:20]
I have and so I’ve consistently kept taking chances, even when I couldn’t see the light at the end of the tunnel thinking it was a train. You know, I’ve had faith that if I kept going, so there’s a famous quote that says you you’re required to shake the apple tree, hard to get the apples to fall, but it’s never that tree they fall from. And Buckminster Fuller also had what was known as the corridor principle that you see this long haul with all of these doors. And you’re required to walk there and try to open doors, but it’s never the ones you try to open. But still, you’ve got to keep going. And so you know, when I was, you know, a teenager, my parents, parents were divorced, my mother ended up working, my grandfather had died. And my maternal grandmother worked for Union Pacific Railroad folding sheets in a laundry till she was 71. Now, it was a great job, she had union benefits. But early on, I decided, you know, I wanted to figure out how to become financially free. And so I kind of made that as a as a goal because I didn’t want to have to go through what they had gone through. And I figured there must be an answer. Now, it took me a long time to figure out that I’d been raised, much like Rich Dad, Poor Dad to make other people wealthy. And so it took me a long time to learn about equity, and that it’s startups that create the the most wealth. But you know, I would learn and then, you know, thankfully, people would show up in my life who would help or give me some advice.
David Ralph [27:55]
And but you only get back because you’re getting out there on you. And that’s just the he
Judy Robinett [28:01]
show you have. I mean, in Jim’s, you know, story is just classic. And I’ve met people that have done that, and then are just really angry that they didn’t pursue really what was in their, their heart. Now, you know, early on in my heart was I was going to save the world. I started life as a social worker. And I got to the point, I thought, if I saw another three year old beater raped, I’d put a bullet through my head, and I thought, this isn’t going to work for me. And so I went back and got a master’s in what’s called labor economics and, and started in business, I would have never guessed in 100 years, I’d be doing what I’m doing now having started as a social worker. But you know, so I tell people, much like a famous quote, by Debbie Reynolds, when she was younger, she said to him to a producer, oh, you know, should I stay in TV? Should I go to the movie? Should I do theater? And he said, Listen to your heart, the answer will be perfect. And I think the universe requires us to step out of that comfort zone and takes some risk. And then suddenly, you know the answer start coming. I love that.
David Ralph [29:04]
Listen to your heart. And the answer will be perfect, because that’s absolutely true, isn’t it? And that is what forces you through on those dark moments when you in the valley and you’re fighting way through because I’ve had times on doing the show, Judy, even when it was really established, but it just got too hard. It was too difficult to keep doing it. And I remember just thinking, you know, what is the point. But there was something that kept dragging me back. And that was telling me this, is it. This is it for me. Yeah. And it was almost like, as hard as it got, the angrier that I got because I was thinking I’m losing this. I don’t want to lose this. I’m going to get this and I’m going to get this and I started fighting back. And I tell you, I’m going to play this. I haven’t played this role. Well, but this sort of speaks quite nicely to what we’re saying. This is what we’re talking about, you know,
Unknown Speaker [29:52]
buddy, he’s gonna hit as hard as life. But ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you take get hit, and keep moving forward, how much you can take it keep moving forward. That’s how we did it.
David Ralph [30:09]
How did you know how much you could take? When when you that first business went to the wall? And you were basically looking around thinking, what have I done? Like we all do? Where did I go wrong? How did you know that you could brush yourself down and get back up.
Judy Robinett [30:26]
So that franchise restaurant David I, at one point was broke. You know, I remember going to a bankruptcy attorney, I had dropped a couple of times that I had committed suicide in my sleep. I was terrified, I could barely pull myself out of bed. And I went to the bankruptcy attorney and I’m just shaking, you know, I’ve got my papers, and I show him my papers. And he looks at me and he said, Well, you’re not even close to bankruptcy. And I looked at him and I said, but I’m broke. And you know, I started thinking, Okay, and he made a comment, I will not never forget, he said, You know, they can break you, but they can’t eat you. And that’s where I went, Okay, you know, there’s action I can take here. And I literally I turned it around. I didn’t know I could do it. I was scared. But I kept going. And I did. I turned it around, and I sold it. And guess what they put still up my spine. And that still prepared me to be the CEO of the public company when I hit the next wall. But I wouldn’t have been able to do the CEO position if I hadn’t gone through the first one. And you know, none of us in life, escape pain, suffering. And you know, Misery, and fear none of us but it’s the opportunity to develop a wisdom and courage.
David Ralph [31:45]
I don’t like going through those times, as anyone does. But when you look back after a while you kind of go Yeah, I’m quite glad of that. That that was that was the the making of me, I can see how my path has changed direction. And you really have to pay attention to those times, don’t you when you’re starting to get engulfed by all and just thinking that everything’s gonna go wrong. Because there’s a gift in there somewhere.
Judy Robinett [32:10]
There is a gift, there’s always a gift in there, you know, you think about in the in the Bible in the Old Testament. And by the way, somebody said to me once, if you really want to understand human nature, study the Bible and study Shakespeare. So right now I’m reading how to teach your children Shakespeare and I’ve learned a whole lot about fear and betrayal from reading that. But you know, in the Old Testament, you think about, you know, David and Goliath, you know, here he is in the valley, this, you know, monster shows up, that the gift is, you know, hands up with his sword that he then can go after Saul. But he has more self confidence and more respect. And Tony Robbins often says, you know, you don’t learn much when you’re partying, you don’t learn much. And so I think, you know, when you get older, you start, you know, swallowing and saying, there’s going to be a lesson here, there’s something for me to learn. Let me embrace it. I mean, I literally now try to embrace that fear. But I’m also smart enough to go get help. So I will turn to whoever it is that I need to turn to. And you know, often the breakthrough comes when you can be honest and fess up. You’re terrified. You don’t know what direction to go. And then other people can help you see the light. I mean, jack welch says, you know, get better reality, all of us have blind spots. And I’ve found that that fear often hangs out in that that blind spot, and other people can shine light and can can help us And oftentimes, it’s just some simple little thing, like, you know, that attorney saying they can break you, but they can’t eat you. I mean, I will never forget that. And that made a difference. And I thought, you know, what’s the worst thing that can happen here? Am I going to die? No, I’m not going to die. They’re going to put me in prison. No, they’re not going to put me in prison. You know, I could be broke. Well, so what I’ve been broke before.
David Ralph [33:59]
And we’re not talking here to a lady that is Rocky Balboa way when you’re not rocky but you’re just somebody that just keeps them just keeps on going, basically, and we can all do that. Can’t wait. That’s the key thing.
Judy Robinett [34:14]
But we can only and you know you Yeah, and you must know i mean this this you know Judy Balboa You know, I’ve spent a lot of time hiding in my cave with my dark chocolate. And so you know, I’m 60. So it took me years to figure this stuff out. And I always love to tell people that are younger than me. You know, the fear will not kill you. It’s just a filling. And forget about the fear. And the best way to get out of fear is to take action.
David Ralph [34:39]
But you can only keep going if you’ve started moving in the first place. That’s what I say to people.
Judy Robinett [34:45]
David Ralph [34:47]
So if we talk about your books, your business books, how to be a power connector, the five plus 50 plus hundred will the first question I suppose is, was that always a plan to write a book? Or was that another one of the dots on the join up dots timeline that came to you somehow?
Judy Robinett [35:05]
Yeah, never, never did. I think I would write a book. You know, I never learned grammar in school, if you’ve had to tell me a past perfect part of I don’t even know what that crap is. And so I would have never thought I would write a book. But you know, suddenly, for years, people started saying, pay me if they could follow me around, until learn how I networked and I thought they were nuts. I didn’t realize that I did anything different than other people. And I had helped a movie producer friend of mine, Marvin and cuna, get a venue son, Sundance, when you know, he’d lost his venue. And he took me to dinner to thank me. And he said, What are you thinking? And I said, you know, so many people keep telling me this, I should probably pay attention. And they said, Oh, you know, let me put you in contact with my friend one day. She’s She’s an agent, like, get on the phone with Wendy. And she’s like, just over the top excited about this potential book. And again, I’m, you know, questioning, but I’m smart enough. Now, you know, there’s there’s a famous quote that says, if three people say you’re a horse, you better buy a saddle. And so now I’ve gotten smart enough to realize those other people from the outside can see things that I don’t see, it’s my blind spot. And so I decided, Okay, I’ll try that I would have never dreamed in 100 years I do a book and even less the potential of selling to a top New York publisher McGraw Hill. And then you know, just these dazzling blessings. You know, for instance, the Assistant General Secretary of the United Nations read my book, and I ended up at the UN. A young man wrote to me from Nigeria, and told me by the time he made it to chapter three, he got his company funded. And it makes me do the happy dance. I mean, I literally stand up and go, yes, you know, just like Rocky and so I realized the, you know, if my gift if I could teach other people just a very simple method to build, maintain and leverage a network to their dreams, and how simple it was, that I could have a bigger influence than just, you know, giving speeches or talking to people one on one, but no, I never thought about doing a book. And now I’m doing another one.
David Ralph [37:19]
So if somebody says to you, what do you do? Do you say I’m an author? First, a speaker first? How do you actually phrase what you do for a living?
Judy Robinett [37:27]
Oh, my gosh, you know, I usually say I just love making things happen. And and I’ve always loved that I’ve always been adapted strategy connecting the dots. I’ve been better at it for other people than myself. And that’s usually the case, we don’t see our own genius. And all of us have that. But you know, I guess now I probably say I’m a business thought leader. You know, I work with a couple of billionaires helping helping them get in the right room, the right doors. And I do a lot of teaching. So probably at my core, I teach I love to teach and help others.
David Ralph [38:01]
Because just the fact that you work with billionaires to get them in the room, you mentally you kind of think they should get themselves in their own rooms. Once once you’ve got that level of money, you kind of think you can do anything you want. But of course, they have to deal with the same issues.
Judy Robinett [38:15]
Yeah, and that’s a good point, David. So you know, one of the first Forbes bloggers that interviewed me, I talked about getting in the right room. And I think he’s the one that gave me the moniker of the woman with the titanium Rolodex. And and this guy writes to me, sends me an email and says, Judy, I’m working with this billionaire. I can’t tell you who it is. But you know, he needs a power connector. And I’m thinking Yeah, right, dude. And asked me if I’d be interviewed. Well, you know, pretty soon I end up on the call with this billionaire who’s done to IPOs, previously at 2.7 billion. And my first thought, honestly, was okay, he wants me to go raise lots of money. And I’m really good at that. And I’ve raised millions and millions of dollars. And I get him on the phone, I find out his startup is funded by Marc Andreessen, one of the top VCs in the world. And indeed, he wants me to open the strategic top tier doors, kind of like a Biz Dev. And I thought that to myself, it’s like, dude, you know, you’ve done to IPOs you’ve got the top VC guy, do you? Do you really need me, and part of it is time and part of it is that I can get in almost any door. And it turns out, and you know, I was I wasn’t raised wealthy. And that’s one of the, you know, things that you think when you’re you weren’t, is that money will solve everything. And it does. It’s startling, that, you know, people can’t figure it out. So or they need some help.
David Ralph [39:40]
So it was what’s holding this billionaire back then why can’t he buy your book and do it himself?
Judy Robinett [39:47]
Well, he doesn’t have time to, you know, read my book. He’s, he’s starting, you know, his third company that will do a an IPL. And you know, sometimes it’s better that you find somebody who’s a genius in their own thing, and you work with them, you know, you can’t be good at everything. Everybody’s got problems. Everybody’s got great, you know, gifs. And now he’s good at doing IPOs a 2.7 billion. So am I thrilled I’m getting stock. You bet. Now he’s really good at that. So it turns out, it’s a perfect kind of a value proposition. And I tell people this all the time, you can make those things happen. Now, I was once on a board or on a panel with Mark Cuban. And I was thinking, geez, wouldn’t it be just great if I could get this guy to endorse my book? Well, of course, he was too busy. We did some emails back and forth. And in a split second, I thought, well, I’ll just go to your boss, Mark Burnett Shark Tank. And I didn’t know Mark, but I thought just for kicks, I would you know, talk to several people in my network. See if anybody knew someone who might know someone, sure enough. A friend of a friend knew someone who was going to dinner with Mark and his wife, Roma Downey, and I said, find out what he needs. Well, they had just spent $18 million on the movie Son of God, and He needed some marketing help. And so I did a little research, I found out the Baptists were behind it, the Catholics were behind it. But you know, I lived in Salt Lake, and there’s 16 million well organized Mormons. And so I kind of came up with some ideas that I felt would really help him and I made some contacts. And then I got back to this guy. I said, I know he’s coming to Sundance, tell him if he would just spend 15 minutes with me, I’ve got some really good ideas. The next thing I knew I was going to dinner with Mark. And yes, he endorsed my book. And now I’m friends with him. So literally, you know, here I am. Nobody from Franklin Preston, Idaho area that ends up and I’m friends with all kinds of celebrities and people of gravitas and power. And it’s because I put myself out there. And I’ve helped it’s just a matter of helping being generous, and being a person that they would want to be around. And another just quick story, Warren Buffett’s business partner Charlie Munger, once said, out of 100 people he meets, there’s five that are keepers he can’t live without, there’s 20, he never keras to see again, as long as he lives and the other 75 or opt in, let’s wait and see what they do. So I tell people, you know, your aspiration should be to be in that five. And if you’re not in that five, then be in the opt in where you keep your word you get back. I mean, it’s very simple to add value can find it information, some article, make an introduction, you know, if you just start figuring out how to be a little scrappy, a little creative, you can add value, and of course, people will want you in their network.
David Ralph [42:47]
So So how does the equation work? Ben, so you got your five and I assume that ties up with the the Charlie Munger come in just a moment ago does it?
Judy Robinett [42:56]
No, actually, so that first circle is a research those five to 15, that first circle closest to you is your family and your friends. And they provide love and support capital. That further one out is 150. And that’s based on Dunford law and done for its law says groups fall apart at 150. And even the Roman armies were grouped in 150. So this notion that you can have thousands of people on Facebook and LinkedIn, you know, is a bit bunk. It’s not quantity, it’s quality relationships, I had a guy call me that had 40,000 contacts in a Google Doc, and he was trying to send out Christmas cards and birthday cards. And I’m like, how many of these people have ever helped you, and it was less than 20. And so the focus really is. And so let me back up. So in the middle of that, you know, five to 15, and the top number 150, I talked about the critical 25 to 50 vital relationships that can and will help you get to your dreams. And if you have people in there that are from different industries across different verticals, you have people in media, you have people in regulatory government, you have lawyers you have, you know, whatever it is important for you to have to get to your dreams, then you can simply pick up the phone when you hit the wall, and you’re going to go running into your cave and say, you know, three very powerful words, please help me. And they will be delighted to help you.
David Ralph [44:28]
So so what we’re saying really, is that size matters, in this sense, is not how many you’ve got eight, how good they are, is that is that what we’re saying? So when people are going, Facebook, friends, and all that kind of stuff, they’re just wasting their time.
Judy Robinett [44:46]
Yeah, it’s quality that matters most. And I used to say, I’d only let people in my network that had a good had a good heart and a good gut. Because you can find people smarter than you all day long. And they’ll stab you in the back and you’ll drown in your blood. And then you find these great big, they don’t keep their word and do what they say they’re going to do. And I finally boiled it down to is this person, a Martha Stewart or an Oprah? Now they’re both billionaires, they’re both very, very good at what they do. But if I had to have one that I would, I could trust that they would have my back and they would have my future. It’s Oprah because that’s where my values are. So you want people who know you like you trust you, who will help you. And and you can find those. And oftentimes, some of them are already hidden in your network. So Research also shows that your influence is limited to a friend of a friend of a friend. But most of us don’t even know who our friends and our network know. And in a short example, my agent called me one day and said, I’m going to introduce you to Mike Muni, he’s the co founder of x software, it sold for 48 million. Now he has this top app rated that’s free for an iPhone called Viper that helps you manage your contacts, I think the two of you should meet. And he flies to Salt Lake and we sit down and talk and you know, smarter than smart, just a nice, nice man. And I finally look at him. I said, Mike, I’ve never even heard of your app, what are you doing for marketing? And he kinda, you know, went on and on about customer acquisition costs, and he didn’t have gazillions in a marketing budget, much like Mark Burnett. And then he said to me, Judy, what I would give if I could just get an article in Success Magazine. And I said, Mike, when you go home, I want you to call Wendy who I’ve known for less than six months. So you’ve known for six years and tell her to introduce you to her friend, Darren Hardy, who is the owner and founder of Success Magazine. He almost fell out of his chair.
David Ralph [46:41]
No matching he did not you should delayed on the floor to catch him. Yeah, I bet you get that kind of fading all the time.
Judy Robinett [46:49]
This happens all the time, David I mean, we don’t know most people don’t know, because they’ve not had that, that sit down with their connections and say, this is where I’m going. This is what I’m up to. What other ideas do you have for me? Who else do you know I should talk to? I mean, it’s, it is profound. And it really is magic. I mean, people try it and then write to me.
David Ralph [47:12]
But I’ll tell you what, I’m going to buy you a book straight afterwards, I’m gonna go on Amazon, and for a couple of quid your way, because I’m going to read this because doing a show like this is all about leverage, basically, and finding people that I can sort of develop into a bigger, bigger platform. And when you’re saying it sounds so simple, it seems so simple, but I’d be a fool not to become a power connector duty.
Judy Robinett [47:37]
Well, or to be power connected. And the base formula is those quality relationships, plus strategy will equal your goal. And if you have any questions when you read the book, I mean, callme, we will talk I could do I mean, if I know what your goals are, I can introduce you to five people in 10 minutes.
David Ralph [47:56]
So what what doors can you not open? Man? What what sort of level of so I you listeners and beyond a list as well? Where does your your sort of opening door capability stop? You know, I,
Judy Robinett [48:08]
I I’m not sure. You know, my first thought was the Pope and the queen. Although I have a direct connection to two people, you know, over there. So, you know, if I, if I wanted to, there’s usually a way to get it done.
David Ralph [48:29]
Just stopping you there. But he, you know, you’re even thinking about how to open the door to the Pope, that that’s, that’s beyond anything, isn’t it? You know,
Judy Robinett [48:39]
it really, it really isn’t. So each one of these people, I mean, the more important people are surrounded by handlers. So they have this tear of people, and then they have a tear below them. So you know, I’m on the board of a really great startup, that’s one of the 50 best in Silicon Valley. And the guy told me how long it took him to get to somebody that was pretty powerful. And he did it, he spent six months getting to know the people in the level that was under him, and showing them who he was, he was trustworthy, he did have something of value to offer. And sure enough, he got to that person. And so you know, I’m of the belief that most people are wonderful human beings. And if you have something of value that isn’t wasting their time, there’s there’s always a way to figure out how to meet them. They’re just there is and I’ve proven that over I mean for me to have, you know, people in my Rolodex like I do, people wouldn’t believe it. And it’s possible. And so and that’s why I wrote the book, it really, truly is possible. Now, for instance, when I met with Mark, he said, Who are you? And finally he said, you know, is there anything I could do to help you? And I said, Mark, I’ve got this book coming out, would you consider endorsing it? He said, Absolutely. And then he said, Is there anything else? And I said, you know, I’d love to get my book to Oprah he said, done, she’s a good friend that stays at our home.
David Ralph [50:09]
It blows your mind, doesn’t it? Really, you bet. It’s such an rarefied altitude that these people operate in, but you really think but there’s no way through.
Judy Robinett [50:19]
Yeah, but it isn’t that rare, they get up under the sun’s same sun that you do, you know, they have to eat breakfast, go to the bathroom. And they have problems that they’re trying to solve. And they have, you know, all kinds of people that work with them. And so there certainly is a way to get into their circle if you need to be there. And this is another one that I really listened to my heart, like, you know, out of all the people on the planet, I could pick, I pick a Mark Burnett to try to get to. And after you’ve done that a couple of times, and you know, I first did it at a much lower level. So I remember son, I was so thrilled that I actually met the governor of the state of Idaho. And then it kind of emboldened you and you go cheese, you know, if I could do that, you know, maybe I could do something at the next level, I was just amazed when I met a millionaire. I mean, Mark Cuban has a net worth of 7.6 billion. And you bet you, you soon find out that everybody’s a human being and they all have problems, they all need help. And if you can figure out a value proposition you can very easily get into their orbit.
David Ralph [51:25]
Well, let’s play the words now from the somebody who created the whole theme of this show. And he certainly wasn’t short of a few pounds or dollars in his time as well. This is Steve Jobs.
Steve Jobs [51:35]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards, 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future, you have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [52:11]
So where do you find your competence from Judy?
Judy Robinett [52:16]
My confidence, you know, it has been hard one, it’s it is just from getting out there and doing it and then it jumps up an inch or two. And then you do something tougher, and it jumps up three or four inches. You know, I used to think I would have trouble giving speeches, I absolutely love giving speeches. And I focus on the people out there in the audience who I trust, you know, who are looking at me for help. And if I focus on that, then then I’m okay. But it has been, you know, startling The first time I gave a speech to a room of 1000. You know, I took a very deep breath. I stood up at the mic and what i did it i didn’t die pass out, forget what I was going to say. And so it is you know, confronting your own fears, taking the action, and doing it and indeed having faith I think having faith that there is a reason for you to be on this planet. All of us are born with gifts. And I think we are required to shake the apple tree hard. all that’s required of us is to take action and and that tree the apples may not fall. But the next one they will but you have to move.
David Ralph [53:31]
So do you buy in to the words, as Steve was saying then?
Judy Robinett [53:35]
Absolutely. The only thing that I would say is if you connect dots, for instance, if you have in your network people in some of these different diverse areas, you’ll get there a lot faster. And I learned this accidentally. So when I did the restaurant, it was in a little town not far from Sun Valley, Idaho. And I had been a vice president of all hospital just a little Podunk hospital, I’d wrote a newspaper column for a Podunk little, you know, Idaho newspaper, my neighbor was a senate majority leader. And I’d worked at a fortune 300 company. And so I had access to the media to what was going on in government to the people of leadership and gravitas in the town. And I could see you know that I literally stepped into all these things flowing around me. And you know, I could help my friends that they wanted to get an article published, I could help them if they wanted to go find out about a Senate Bill. And so if you surround yourself with diverse and I’m serious, so most people just surround themselves with people just like them. And so when I have a map out the current network, you know, they get their friends and family. Well, that next group out of 25 to 50 is usually people just like them, fellow accountants, lawyers. And sure enough, if they decide to start a business and you raise money, or they’re looking for a different job, they hit the wall. And so it is important to build the network before you need it with some level of diversity. And also, you know, I have diverse and wide geographically across different industries deep with people of influence, money, grab a toss, then then you can make anything happen. And it doesn’t really matter which direction you’re headed, because all of those people can be almost like a mastermind or brain trust, to help you get there.
David Ralph [55:32]
So what’s your big adult? When you look back on everything? What What was the adult what really started you moving in the direction that you are now?
Judy Robinett [55:42]
Um, you know, when I was in the corporate world, you know, I was working really, really hard keeping my head down thinking someone would notice and, you know, I found out, no one was noticing, and I’d learned this fairy tale that you know, that you’re that many of us were taught. And you No, I had a mentor, the head of the legal department, you know, was very helpful with me. And so I tell people, you know, make sure you have a mentor. But, you know, that person was the individual who said to me, You need to start investing in stocks, I never heard of that, you know, my parents didn’t even have credit card. That’s when I got invited to some outside events that were really outside of my circle of friends and family and who I ran around with. And then I started seeing the the power of of doing that, that early on, I gotta tell you, when I was about 10 years old, I can remember thinking I was really dumb. And thinking that if I read and really studied that somehow having more information in different areas would really help me connect the dots and maybe I could aspire to some level of being smart. And and I can see I’ve done that all my life for whatever reason, the connecting, so you know, what, really is the connection of ideas of money of people, it’s almost to me, like playing a 3d chess. And usually any problem is a combination of two people one part idea, and then some money, every time. So, so that’s probably the you know, thinking back, that’s probably the best answer I have. The big
David Ralph [57:20]
dog always comes to us when we least expect it. Well, this is the end of the show. Now, this is the part that we call the Sermon on the mic when I’m going to send you back to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the young Judy, what age would you choose and what advice would you give where we’re gonna find out because we’re gonna play the theme tune and when it fades you up? This is the Sermon on the mic.
Judy Robinett [58:05]
So Judy, you’re 10 years old right now and I want you to kick fear to the curb, and quit worrying about what other people think things that you have been told. And now that you’re in high school, I would say forget the counselor who told you you weren’t smart enough to go to college again, kick fear to the curb. Don’t pay attention to the naysayers keep going.
David Ralph [58:33]
Judy, how can our audience connect with you? You know,
Judy Robinett [58:36]
I’m on LinkedIn, Judy Robinett know he on the end of Andrew Robinett. My Twitter is at Judy Robinett. And my email is Judy at Judy Robinett. com. You know love to hear from folks. And you know I have a website. That’s also Judy Robinett and I have lots of free resources on there. And a matter of fact, I’ll send you kind of a top 10 list that you can put in the show show notes. Perfect. Where
David Ralph [59:01]
have all the links in the show notes. Judy, thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots and please come back again when you have more dots to join up because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Judy Robinett Thank you so much.
Judy Robinett [59:17]
Thank you brilliant vision. Keep going David
David Ralph [59:22]
thanks for listening to today’s episode of join up dots brought to you exclusively by podcasters mastery.com the only resource that shows you how to create a show, build an income and still have time for the life that you love. Check out podcasters mastery com now
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