Jeff Goins Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast
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Introducing Jeff Goins
Jeff Goins is today’s guest joining us on the Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast.
Let’s start with a question, and this is a fundamental question that can derail so many peoples dreams before they even start.
How do you become something that you want to be, if you have no history, or very little history in doing that thing?
How do you get to the point when other say….”oh you are so and so, I love your work!”
Well, I’ll give you some thinking time whilst you ponder this.
Well the answer is what todays guest Jeff Goins did.
You simply start doing that thing, keep on doing it, and be consistent until you can say that you are that thing.
He wanted to be a writer, but was trapped with his daily life, family responsibilities and a myriad of other things.
So he made a decision to start writing and made the time.
How The Dots Joined Up For Jeff
And it didn’t matter if the time was unnatural and not conducive to developing his craft.
He would write.
And now in a few short years, Jeff Goins is the author of The In-Between, Wrecked, You Are a Writer and now his latest work Art Of Work.
And as he says “I now spend my time writing books and trying to take over the Internet.”
So how did he overcome those same self-limiting thoughts that stop so many people in their tracks?
And is he proud of all his writing, or can he now see that the work has improved dramatically due to the constant effort, or the personal belief that comes with achievement?
Well let’s bring onto the show to start joining up dots, as we discuss the words of Steve Jobs in todays Free podcast, with the one and only Jeff Goins.
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Jeff Goins as:
How he remembers the seven years of struggle and persistence that went into the point when he started to get noticed by the world. Seven years that no one thinks happened.
Why he maintains that there is a thing inside all of that is waiting to grow into something if we only look for it hard enough.
Why it is so important to have close mentors and friends in your life, who can show you things about yourself that are too close for you to see.
How he felt such great achievement when he realized that his list of goals that he had kept for ten years had all been achieved in the last two.
Why it is so important to write the words as if you are speaking to the individual, to build the personal connection that you want with your audience.
Jeff Goins Books
How To Connect With Jeff Goins
You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here – enjoy
Audio Transcription Of Jeff Goins Interview
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling join up dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK David Ralph
David Ralph [0:37]
Yes, hello there, Episode 398 of join up dots This is David Ralph coming from the back of the garden in the United Kingdom. And it’s been a lovely day today. So it’s been, it’s been one of those days that you’re kind of glad that you’re a podcaster because it’s not like proper work. But I haven’t seen any of it, which is a bit of a drag as well. But I bet this guy today who’s on the show has literally scampering around the world singing, I’m happy, I’m happy, I’m happy because he really seems to be doing he’s being on his own terms. So let’s bring him onto the show. And let’s start with a question. And this is a fundamental question that can derail so many people’s dreams before they even start. How do you become something that you want to be if you have no history? or very little history in doing that thing? How do you get to the point when others say Oh, you’re so and so I love your work? Well, I’ll give you some thinking time watch to ponder this. Really? Well the answer is what today’s guest Did you simply start doing that thing, keep on doing it and be consistent until you can say that you are that thing. He wanted to be a writer but was trapped with his daily life, family responsibilities, and a myriad of other things. So he made his decision to start writing and made the time to do it. And it didn’t matter at the time was unnatural and not conducive to developing his craft he would write and now in a few short years is your for the in between wrecked, you are a writer and now he’s latest work, art of work. And as he says I now spend my time writing books and trying to take over the internet. So how did you overcome those same self limiting thoughts that stopped so many people in their tracks? And is he proud of all these writing? Or can you now see that the work has improved dramatically due to the constant effort and the personal belief that comes with achievement? Well, let’s find out as we bring on to the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr. Jeff goings. How are you Jeff?
Jeff Goins [2:27]
Hey David great to be with you. Thanks for having me.
David Ralph [2:29]
It is an absolute delight to have you because yeah, you are you are taking over the Internet that the red the red hates the ginger is taking over the world. Oh, we got Ed Sheeran taking over music you taking over the internet? And I don’t know what all McDonald doing food. It’s great. Did you feel that you are on your way to taking over the internet?
Jeff Goins [2:51]
Well, I don’t know about that. That’s a little tongue in cheek but but I have it is kind of weird to, you know, do things that that I’ve been practicing for years and then sort of reached this point where people are starting to recognize it. I mean, it is it is sort of it is sort of a funny feeling when you get the things that you’ve been trying to achieve for so long. And then they all just seem all at once.
David Ralph [3:17]
When I was doing my virtual stalking on you and looking around you, you’re very good. You’re You’re the king of the sound bites. And there’s a lot of images on Google. But you can sort of go and see these sound bites that you say. And most of them are pretty much around the there’s no shortcuts. It’s it’s persistent persistence, it’s practice. I know your most recent show was about sort of no overnight success. Is that something that because you’ve done it, you put the work in and you’ve had those early mornings and those late nights and you put the the hustle muscle to test? Does it annoy you when people kind of assume it was an easy ride? Well,
Jeff Goins [4:02]
sometimes Yeah. It is. It is. It is interesting when somebody tries to when they when they try to compliment you saying man, you’ve you know, you’ve you’ve been really successful in a short amount of time. And I go well, thanks. Because the truth is, you know, the past two or three years that people have seen sort of as the the public display of success and publishing books, and, you know, building an online business and doing podcasts and all that stuff and the blog growing. I remember this seven years of anonymity and nobody knowing you know who I was in trying to do it. I remember hearing my friend Chris Brogan talk about, you know, who he sort of, he sort of revealed as a social media icon. And he said, you know, for the first eight years or something of his blog, he had less than 100 subscribers. But we don’t like to talk about that. Because that’s not, that’s not fun that that doesn’t, that doesn’t sell like, you know, you know, hey, you can do it in the course of a week or a month or even even a year. And I think I couldn’t have those couldn’t have had those two years of success without the failure.
David Ralph [5:20]
Well, as a key point, isn’t it, it, everything grows under the ground when you can’t see it. And it’s only when a looms, but you actually go out there is a plant there. And it’s it’s the talent but you develop it has to have that nurture point doesn’t it has to have that place that you go and you just batter a word. And if you look back at some of the early works, or the Masters, you listen to like the Beatles latest stuff, and you look at their early stuff world apart. But as humans we don’t like to see about do we? What Why do you think Chris Brogan persisted been with 100? People? Why do you think that he kept on going? Where so many people get out? It’s not working? And I’m just give up on it?
Jeff Goins [6:01]
Yeah, well, that’d be a great question for Chris to answer. But my sense is because he believed that there was some untapped potential in him that wasn’t yet realized. And he was willing to work towards that he’s willing to persevere, to find it. I think it goes beyond just thinking that like, you know, you’re doing great work, and people aren’t noticing. It’s, I love that what has become kind of a famous talk by Ira Glass from This American Life, you know, podcast and radio show, where he talks about in this video about the gap between talent and taste. And he says, when you’re first starting out, especially in a creative career, you see everybody else doing this great stuff, and you do this work and and you beat yourself up about it, because it’s just not that good. And I think the, the typical response to that is, you’re okay, you’re a beautiful snowflake, it’s okay, it’s good enough. And what are the glasses and the video is, the reason you feel this way is because you sense intuitively, that you aren’t as great as you could be. And I think we all feel that on some level, we feel like there is a true self. And we could hide behind the false self that what Thomas Merton calls the shadow self for the rest of our lives, meaning we can hide behind mediocre accomplishments and achieve and good enough job descriptions, without actually fully becoming who we’re meant to be. And then we die on our deathbed full of regret, realizing that we missed it, that we succeeded at all the wrong things by playing it safe. And I think we run into these moments in life where realize, man, I’ve got an itch, and the thing I’m doing right now is not scratching it. So I can either stop scratching and live with the itch. Or I can do what you know, Chris Brogan did, and just keep itching different places until I find it.
David Ralph [7:53]
So when did you start scratching yourself been? Well, can you? Can you look back? Isn’t. It’s a habit you stop? Can you remember when he started?
Jeff Goins [8:03]
I’ve been scratching myself my whole life. But in terms of the passion? Yeah, when I was 27 years old. So this is about five years ago now. I, I felt like something was missing. I was the marketing director to nonprofit, I’d held this, you know, good steady job for about five years. I was recently married, you know, within the past five years, as well. And we were at my wife and I were talking about starting a family. And I had just gotten a raise and a promotion. And I just kind of came to this point where I didn’t hate my job. I didn’t hate my boss, I wasn’t you know, trapped in some cubicle, I had a nice little setup. And I just kind of felt Is this it? You know, will this be the next 10 years of my life. And I and I felt like it would have been easy to just sort of coast to put the you know, put the car in a cruise control and just let it go for the next 10 years. And I I saw, you know, I looked ahead in 10 years, and I saw the person I would be and it wasn’t a bad person. But it was the kind of guy who goes home every day. And you know, builds model airplanes or has some sort of escape, because his job is not the thing that he was meant to do. And, and I kind of stopped in my tracks, and I said is the direction which I’m going is it where I want to end up. And it wasn’t. Again, it wasn’t bad i i and i think that’s probably one of the most dangerous places to be is to be in a job that you don’t hate, but you don’t love because it’s easier to stay comfortable than it is to try something risky and scary. But if you hate your job, if it’s terrible, if it’s driving you crazy, if you’re, you know dying to get out of there, then you know what you need to do. But if you’re stuck somewhere in life, and it’s good enough to stay there, it won’t kill you. That’s a really dangerous place to be. And that’s where I recognize that I was. So I started digging deep to really figure out not just what I want to do, but who am I really and some of the you know, answer surprised me.
David Ralph [10:04]
It is funny, because you’re absolutely right. It’s that comfort zone. It’s I was comfortable jobs I my last job I was there for 10 years, five years were okay. And five years were very comfortable, because I just know it inside out. And I was talking to my colleague last night, I was down the pub having a few beers. And we were talking about managers. And I look back on it now. And the manager that made me leave was a complete cow. And I just couldn’t work for her. And she took over a manager who was like the best thing for me and just let me do my thing. And I could choose my hours and flow in and out. Now I look back on it. I think now he was actually a bad manager. He wasn’t managing me. I was just sort of doing my own thing. When she came in. That was my pain point. I didn’t like to be sort of reined in. And it’s interesting. When you look at those moments in your life, when you make that decision, more often than not, it’s just how you feel, isn’t it? It’s brains don’t come into it. It’s just how you feel when you know, you’ve got to go on to do some great stuff, even though you don’t know what it’s going to be.
Jeff Goins [11:07]
Yeah, I think there’s a certain sense of intuition. I mean, some people kind of attach a spiritual connection to it. But I think it’s something more than just sort of this logical, I need to go do this, I maintain this is my belief that that there is something inside of you that that knows what you’re supposed to do. And it doesn’t have to just be one thing. But I think when you’re doing the wrong thing, that’s that’s something, it flares up in you like a bad rash or something it it agitate you, because it’s saying This isn’t good. You need to like that we need to change this there needs change needs to happen here.
David Ralph [11:47]
Now, one of the things we talked about Jeff on the show is if you look back at your young version, the version that would do stuff just for fun when money wasn’t involved this old, the six to maybe 10 year old, that absolute clues now into that for what you should be doing now. That’s your true passions. That’s the things that we forget when the responsibilities take control, the big promotions, the jobs all those kind of things that we go for later on. If you look back at your younger self is a big connection now with that person that you might have missed the somehow in the middle.
Jeff Goins [12:21]
Oh, yeah, absolutely. You know, in the book, I talk about this idea of listening to your life. Parker Palmer and author and activist says that before I can tell my life what I want to do with it, I need to listen to my life telling me who I am. And so around, you know that when I was 27, I was working at this job and it was fine. I started listening to my life. And what that means is I started you know, thinking back to my younger self, so I was 27 at the time. So what did I What was I doing? When I got right out of college, I was traveling with a band and I was and I had started a blog at 20 two years old. And then you know what, go back to what What
David Ralph [13:03]
music do you play? guitar? Now this is one thing I didn’t know about you. So yeah, cuz I play keyboard. I know Michael O’Neill from the soda. Can you our plays drums, your guitar, we could create our band Madison Square Garden? Yeah. Bring it on. Who’s gonna be the lead singer? Out of all the people, you know? Who would be the one that could get out there and Bon Jovi up?
Jeff Goins [13:28]
Yeah, that’s a good question. I think Michael Hyatt has a pretty good singing voice. So I would I would nominate him for that.
David Ralph [13:34]
He doesn’t sound like it. That’s all the people you could have said I wouldn’t have expected you to go with him. Yeah,
Jeff Goins [13:43]
I think I think he can sing.
David Ralph [13:44]
Yeah, does he seven eight you in in in gentle moments?
Jeff Goins [13:48]
Well, yet, just when I’m feeling a little lonely.
David Ralph [13:52]
Anyway, back to the story. I digress. So you’re 27 years old.
Jeff Goins [13:57]
I’m looking back at these different seasons of life. So when I was touring with the band when I was in college, and I would get stressed, I would run to the late at night, I would go to the computer lab, I would just write out right, I wouldn’t have Dropbox or anything. I didn’t even have a computer in my dorm room. But I go to the the computer lab and I’d write something and I would email it to myself because that was the only way I could save it not on a desk. And I would do this to relieve stress, I would just write. And I just went back and I looked at all the different seasons in life all the way back to 678 years old. When we were traveling on family road trips going on vacation, my mom would read me the dictionary. So I’m listening to my life, I’m paying attention to what I’m sort of watching in reverse, you know, the the events in my life as if it were a movie. And I’m trying to understand the theme of it. What can my past Tell me about my future. And something that was very clear to me when I did this that had never been clear before. And it sort of surprised me was, wow, I have spent my whole life in different in different capacities. I’ve always been a writer, I’ve always written I wrote songs when I was with the band, I you know, won the school spelling bee. And when I was working for the nonprofit, I was writing marketing copy all the time. But writing was the thing that I was always drawn to. And I think some people believe that, you know, you need to go back to what you’re doing when you’re five years old. And that tells you what you need to do in the future. I think it’s a little more complex than that, because people are always doing things that, you know, they’re finding their passions, and it wasn’t necessarily something that they were doing when they were kids, you know, it looks a little bit different and, and in fact, the book tells stories of people who made radical changes from working at a bank to being a park ranger. But you can always go back into their past and find clues of that passion.
Yeah, so yeah, I don’t
David Ralph [15:48]
think he’s a nice Yes. Yeah, you would doing these kind the interests?
Jeff Goins [15:52]
Yeah. And I think it’s, I think your past doesn’t dictate your future, but it informs it you know, I think that a lot of times we go well, what’s my dream and you have to come up with something new. And really, I think it’s something oldest, resurrecting an old idea and old passion that maybe you never really gave a chance to succeed. And that was certainly the case for me with writing.
David Ralph [16:14]
So we’ve your daddy is now looking at your you’ve got one kid or two kids. 113 year old you got one three year old. Okay, so she is it’s a shame. It’s a shame. Boy. It’s a boy a girl. My research is terrible. Okay, it’s a boy do you look at him and think to yourself? Oh, I can already see what he likes doing. Does he saw you know, if he plays with Lego, he might be into building stuff if he’s drawing or can you see he’s little passions.
Jeff Goins [16:40]
I can alarms me a little bit because basically, it’s just fighting. He just wants to fight all the time. He says superhero everything is a is a lightsaber or a sword or become some sort of object of violence. Quit that. What that tells you, but it is
David Ralph [16:57]
a serial killer.
Jeff Goins [17:00]
Right? It is interesting. Yeah, it is interesting to see his personality emerge, in spite sometimes of what his mom and I would like to influence him in, you know, where he just goes, No, I like this. But I don’t like that I like, I like the movie cars. But I don’t like Toy Story. And it is interesting at such an early age to see his individuality emerge. It’s it’s really fun to see. And it makes me realize that some we are all, you know, uniquely born with. We certainly have. We have lots of opportunities to practice and grow. But we’re also unique. And I think each of us is made with a certain set of characteristics and abilities that we can have have the responsibility I would call them gifts God given gifts to develop and nurture or neglect. And, and for me, one of those things was always words, I always love words. And for the longest time I was neglect neglecting it. Then at 27 years old, I realize this is what I’m supposed to do. And I need to really focus on this to become great at it.
David Ralph [18:08]
I think we’ll boy, I think you’re nurturing what, what is happening? Generally I see it time and time again. I was saying to my daughter tonight, oh, I’m going to do dinner and I’ve got five kids, three of them have grown up and the last two are still hanging around. And then they’re looking to move out. She’s 10. And these 13 they’re going to be there for years. And I was saying to the 10 year old, right? We’re do dinner, what we having she says, and I go Oh, no, we do. We do chips. And we do I don’t know be burgers or whatever. Oh, can I had this? Can I have? And I said to her? Why is it now you get choices all the time when I was a kid in the 70s. It just turned up on a plate. And that was it. If you didn’t like it, you had to eat it. And as I was saying these words, I thought that’s a good thing, though, isn’t it? But we’re giving the kids choices. We’re giving them the chance to decide on what they like and your son saying, you know, I don’t like Toy Story. And to be honest, he’s man, not tonight Toy Story. I love him. And and cars. That’s a stupid film. But it’s even worse, I don’t know, I’m gonna have to sit down and talk to him. I really am. But can you see how now we are actually nurturing the ability to create our future somehow, where in past years, you’ve followed the path that were set down? Because you were so ingrained with being told what to do?
Jeff Goins [19:28]
Yeah, yeah, that’s it is it is interesting. I think that you have to, you have to give yourself opportunity to dream and reconnect with that, you know, that that childhood self. And some parents certainly are better at this than than others. I also think that some, it helps to, you know, as adults realize that we still need help, we still need community, we still need mentors to draw that best self out of us. I mean, I was just having coffee with a friend. And I was thinking about the next book that I’m going to write and I was going, what, what do I need to talk about next, and, and he started listing all of these things off that he saw in me that I failed to recognize and myself, sometimes our greatest gifts are least obvious to us. And we need parents and later mentors and friends to draw that out of us. But I do think you’re right, that you have to give yourself permission to realize that the person that I am is not necessarily the person that I could become, I still need to grow, I still need to tap into my passions and interests. And frankly, it I think it’s just easier to coast on, you know, yesterday’s achievements, or I got this, I got this degree, therefore, I have to do this, even though this isn’t what I’m wired to do, it’s a little bit scary. And it feels risky to become your true self. Because it’s, it’s an act of vulnerability. And you have to admit, maybe, maybe I got this wrong at some point. And I’ve got to go back and reclaim who I really am.
David Ralph [21:05]
My my oldest daughter, she’s a lawyer or something. I don’t know what she does. But she’s the only person I know that has got a degree that has any relevance to what she’s doing on a daily basis. And I meet people all the time. And I go, Oh, yeah, I’ve got a degree in the Roman Empire. And you go, Well, what use is that is no use at all? Did you see that as well. But nowadays, the education system isn’t going to die, because it’s there. But there’s a more creative way of almost earning your education just by doing it.
Jeff Goins [21:37]
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think the, I think the industry of education, you know, the formal institutions of you know, universities and colleges around the world are going to need some that you’re going to see hopefully a renaissance in in the world of education and the next generation, you know, in the next 25 to 30 years, if not, those institutions are in serious trouble. Because the world is changing, dramatically changing very quickly. And these, you know, for the most part, these institutions can’t keep up. I mean, I was talking to somebody who had a degree in marketing, and I was asking them what they learned, and they just graduated. And then they had certainly started to get involved in online marketing. And they were like, Oh, nothing, I learned nothing, that they didn’t talk about any of this stuff. They didn’t talk about Facebook, or Google or any, you know, search engine optimization, or podcasting, or any of the stuff that is essential to getting noticed, in the world today. You know, we’re studying 25 year old methods, as if they’re, you know, just as relevant. You know, so I think that education is changing a lot. And look, big fan of whether you go to school or not, whether you have a degree or not, you need to be a lifelong learner. There’s a concept that I talked about the art of work called the accidental apprenticeship, which is really this idea that you’re not going to find one mentor or teacher who’s going to teach you what you need to know. And one degree won’t get you there. Really, it’s it’s an informal, lifelong process of you intentionally finding the right people to learn from finding the right experiences, and the right context in which to immerse yourself so that you can become the person that you’re meant to be, so that you can get good at your craft. And you can be around people who are doing that thing. And if you’re waiting for some, some, you know, educational experience, some class to take, you could be waiting a very long time, I think the best thing to do is to go out and find the people and the places and the opportunities that are already available to you to learn and, and dig in. And if you’re in your second year of college, do that. Now, don’t just be a passive person sitting in a classroom absorbing information, go seek out the professor, seek out other people in your community, find people that you can learn from, I think we’re because we have so many things to you know, delivered to us. These days, we’re lazy about the ways that we absorb and collect and apply information and turn it into practical application. And I see again, and again, the people that succeed in really not just doing great work, but finding their life’s work doing something that matters, that is, you know, deeply fulfilling and makes a difference in the world. Those people the way that they got there is through a bunch of seemingly random things that they intentionally put together into a self organized education.
David Ralph [24:35]
Do you know what I’ve done? I’ve joined up their dots. Now that Yeah, that’s a brilliant idea for a show. I should do that one day. But I’m a stickler. When you when you you, you obviously quite a Ranchi guy, you get passionate when you’re talking about something. And yeah, as I’ve always been in you, because it’s in me, I go off on one quite often. And did you find that as actually helps you develop your art, by having that passion that literally on a tap, it can come flooding out of you.
Jeff Goins [25:07]
I have always liked telling people what to do. I’ve always been passionate, I was just talking, I have a small team of contractors that work with me on various projects, and we’re having a team meeting the other day. And I said, you know, it’s good that I finally did this, that I you know, started a blog and a podcast and hired people to, you know, tell them what to do. And I get to tell hundreds of thousands of people every month, what to do with their lives and their art. And you know, in the the the work that they do. Because I was doing this long before people were listening to me, my friends just got annoyed that I would give them unsolicited advice. So it’s great that I finally have a medium an outlet where, you know, some people are actually eager to hear what I have to say
David Ralph [25:55]
what’s alive. This does she take your advice?
Jeff Goins [25:58]
Sometimes Sometimes, I you know what I think it is David is you know,
David Ralph [26:03]
our wives never take it.
Jeff Goins [26:06]
Yeah, I gently guide her through through, you know, through the storms of life. But you know, what I think it is, is I’m the oldest out of four kids. And so an oldest by quite a bit by the the gaps between my siblings and me are 710 and 19 years respectively for my three siblings. So
David Ralph [26:30]
you know, I was blown my mind. So yeah, if you got step parents or did your mom
Jeff Goins [26:34]
No, no, what’s that? Was it fun? Well, they started early. And they actually got divorced. And then they were divorced. They had me and they were divorced for years. And then they got back together and had a second set of kids had had, you know, two, three markets. You know,
David Ralph [26:53]
Jeff Goins [26:54]
Yeah. Yeah, it was crazy. And then I got a call my sophomore year in college, and my mom said, I’m pregnant. I said, No, you’re not. And she said, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, it was it was interesting. But I’m used to you know, bossing people around and being sort of a, you know, a third parents in the house. And I think that probably trans translated to a lot of other other things in life. And that’s why I write books as a way of telling bossing people around who will actually listen. So yeah, that’s probably passion. Having an opinion. Those have always been, you know, deeply ingrained in me.
David Ralph [27:30]
But let’s play some words now that I love playing literally on every show, and I’m going to play them again. Hey, it’s my show. These are the words of Jim Carrey
Jim Carrey [27:38]
my father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him.
And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.
David Ralph [28:05]
Now, what I love about that speech is more often than not, that whole story is about the person I’m talking to, more often than not, we have parts of our lives. When we were the dad, we was in a safe, job coasting, not willing to take the risk. And when you get to that moment that you’ve already discussed, when you you went for it, and you just took that risk, even though you didn’t have all the answers. Can you from your experience with your listeners and your thousand readers? Do you see that as a common problem across the world is that where people are just at that moment where they’re not willing to do the side hustle and develop something so that they can move towards their passions?
Jeff Goins [28:48]
I love that, quote. I think that people fear the wrong thing. I think that’s I think we fear failure. And what I hear her Jim saying in that that quotation is we need to fear not trying. And I met this woman recently, who’s who’s mentioned in the book, The Art of work, named Jodi Noland, and here was a woman who found her calling at 58 years old, after the death of her good friend Larry, after the death of her husband, both of whom she was she lost to cancer. And the differences between those deaths were Larry on his deathbed wrote letters to his daughters telling them how much he loved them. And then Jody’s husband, Mike, did not. Even though God had seen Larry do it, she told Mike, you need to do this. This made such a difference in Larry’s kids lives. Mike refused to do it. Because he was in denial. He thought he had more time and that he wasn’t really dying. And he was and the cancer killed my quickly. And he died. And shortly after the funeral, God stepped on daughter comes to God and says, Did my dad write me a letter? And God, brokenhearted Lee says, No, he didn’t. And she saw the gap, the disparity between those experiences. And she said, I’ve got to do something about this. And she started after a lot of pain and grief, and you know, of starting the stream and then stopping and she decided I have to do this. And she started an organization called leave nothing unsaid, which goes around to companies and churches and schools and works with individuals and organizations to help them write letters to their loved ones now, so that when they leave whenever that is, you know, leave this life, that they leave nothing unsaid. And I asked God, I said, Why did you do this? Like, what made you actually act? And she said, I decided to act when I stopped being afraid of failing, and started being afraid of not trying. And I think the biggest thing that’s keeping people from trying is I’m afraid that this might fail. But you know, my contention and sounds like Jim Carrey, his contention is, that’s the wrong thing to fear, the thing that you should fear is lying on your deathbed going, I missed it, I missed my chance to even try my dream. Because the reality is the most enjoyable parts of chasing your dream, or not when you actually achieve it. But in the midst of that meaningful pursuit when you’re going for it, I’ve done it, I’ve been on both sides. And it’s the most fun when you’re in the middle of the journey. So you don’t even have to succeed, to experience that kind of joy and purpose that you get when you’re going after a worthy goal.
David Ralph [31:41]
Because I actually wrote letters to all my family probably about five years ago, I had that same feeling. conversations were happening that weren’t the right conversations. So I wrote letters to all my kids and my wife, and even to my daughter’s boyfriend, who I didn’t like very much. So of explaining to him why I didn’t like him very much. And I was I was very honest and open. And I was expecting sort of get back and people go, that was a lovely thing to do. They just thought I was having a mental breakdown. It was so sort of out of character that we had these kind of conversations, but they just bought my dad was having a moment. Did you find that with that lady that you was talking about did did she find that that has the same thing. They don’t land as you want, which men can cause a problem because your efforts your energies to break down those fears to actually write those words don’t convey the message that the person is sending.
Jeff Goins [32:40]
I think that that is the fear. I mean, I think when Jodi was talking to her husband, Mike about doing it, he didn’t quite know how to do it. And, you know, God would go around and she tell people look what my friend Larry did. Isn’t that a great thing? And a lot of people say the same thing that you know, you’re saying David which is I wouldn’t know what to say, or I’m not very, very good writer, and I would you know, fumble over my words, it would be awkward, you know, and so on. And because she is such a words of affirmation, kind of person. And then this came so naturally to her, she realized that she recognized something that was obvious to her that wasn’t obvious to other people. And they were going yeah, that sounds great. But I wouldn’t know where to start. And she realized, I’ve got to help people. I’ve got to teach them how to do that. And I think she does. I think she helps people, you know, say what needs to be said in the way that that they can that they know how to say it, because I think most people don’t know how to express themselves to their loved ones, in a very honest, vulnerable way, in a way that’s also going to be received, as, as you you know, pointed out. And I think that’s kind of what’s brilliant about what she does is she helps you say what you want to say to your loved ones. So yeah, I don’t I mean, I haven’t heard many stories of people not receiving it well, but maybe that’s just because she’s really good at what she does and coaching people through that experience.
David Ralph [33:56]
Well, when you ride do you write very much on the one to one conversation? Obviously, you’ve got a big social media following and people hang on your every words, but you still write as if you’re just talking to one person.
Jeff Goins [34:09]
When I write on my blog, you mean or in a book,
David Ralph [34:11]
books, blogs, whatever?
Jeff Goins [34:13]
Yeah, yeah, I am. I try not to address a crowd, I try to address an individual. Because when you’re reading that blog, post that email that that you know, page on in the book, you’re not, you’re not feeling like you’re standing in a crowd of 100,000 people that the author is talking to, you feel like the author is talking to just you. And I love books. And I feel that kind of intimacy when I’m reading a book, and the author says you, I think he’s talking about me. So I try to be mindful of that when I’m writing. And I’m trying to do better at that with podcasting, my friend, Jeff Brown, who has 25 years in radio, and he says, that’s one thing that podcasters don’t do well, is they say you all are everybody out there, he says, When you say you, you need to be talking to the person on the other end of this interview, because because that’s your audience, that one person and it could be 100,001 people. But the exchange is happening one to one, I think that’s really powerful. But that’s that’s was my kind of my focus, as we talked before, the show that the whole theme of the show is very much, but it’s just you and me late night, in a bar, getting slightly drunk together. And having one of those kinds of conversations that you only get between people when you’re slightly getting drunk. And I thought that was the way to do it. And it does build about it builds a power and an intimacy. But I listened to a lot of podcasts. And I agree with you, it doesn’t feel like there’s a connection being made. And what you’re doing very well, and you’ve done very well on this show is you’re making that connection, you’re building that connection, not just with me, but also with the listeners as well,
David Ralph [35:50]
that that’s a big part of your success, isn’t it?
Jeff Goins [35:53]
I hope so, yeah. I mean, I think that I want to create the kind of work I want to make the the kind of art, if I can use that word that I connect with that I appreciate I, I just read a blog post by Stephen press field, who wrote a great book, many great books, but especially for the creative, a wonderful book called The War of Art. And in this blog post, he said, You know, when you’re writing what you’re supposed to write, you don’t know how people are going to receive it in the best thing that you can do is operate off of intuition, and create something that resonates with you and hope it resonates with somebody else. And so that’s what I’m trying to do. I’m trying to tap into the stuff that fascinates me, that bugs me that provokes me, and share it with at least one other person and see what connects and it doesn’t connect with most people. I mean, if I were to take my book and put it in Times Square, or, you know, do a public reading, you know, on on a major network piece of television, if such a thing still exists. Most people go, huh, I think what makes my work or any work powerful now is that you’re not trying to reach everybody you’re trying to reach the people that are just like you and the beauty of the internet and social media is, it is so easy to connect with people who believe what you believe, think like you think and then just, you know, and tell everybody else to just ignore it. And when you make that kind of connection, in many ways, it’s so much more powerful than reaching a bunch more people with sort of a superficial mediocre message that people are indifferent to.
David Ralph [37:29]
So so when you are doing your your big presentations, and you’re standing in front of people, are you once again, just talking to the individual?
Jeff Goins [37:39]
Yeah, I tried to do that. Yeah, absolutely. And the hardest part of that, and I learned this from a public speaking coach is literally talking to just one person and doing it a few different times, but looking a person in the audience right in the eyes and talk just to them. And when you do that, you create that kind of connection. It’s really, really powerful, not just for that one person, but for everybody who feels like you’re making a connection with them. So absolutely same sort of process. Here’s what resonates with me, you know, what resonates with you. And then you watch, I mean, when you’re speaking in front of people, this is one of the reasons why I like blogging. And why I got into it as a writer, as I got almost instant feedback with comments. And now you know, different social media channels, you get to hear from people and say, Man, that I really connected with that thing, as opposed to writing a book and waiting for a year for somebody to leave your viewers. And, and speaking is like that even more where you say something and immediately you see the response and you go, Wow, I didn’t even I didn’t even think that was that was a good thing. As Am I going to say that again.
David Ralph [38:43]
Because I actually come from a public speaking background. That’s what I did for years and years and years. So this is a sort of total departure to me. And it’s very similar in certain ways. And in other ways, it’s totally different. But what I found was those moments, as you say, when you’d be standing up there, you knew your content in side out back to Plum. And suddenly you’re having like an out of body experience where the words are coming out. And you start assessing yourself, you kind of almost assess your own performance as you’re doing it. Have you had those kind of moments when you think, wow, I actually sound pretty good here and you actually start listening to yourself.
Jeff Goins [39:19]
Yeah, I think there’s two forms of that moment for me. One is where I think, man, this sucks. This is making no sense at all. And then hundreds of people
David Ralph [39:28]
get over it. Yeah. Yeah, people
Jeff Goins [39:30]
go, Oh, that’s amazing. And I go, oh, okay, well, I guess I don’t feel that bad. And then there are those moments where you’re speaking and you plan to say one thing, and then something else just comes out. And I think this tends to happen, the more you practice, the better you can improvise, you know, I have a music background. And I always wanted to just kind of break out into an awesome solo. And I never realized early for a long time, I didn’t realize that the way that you get to have these amazing moments of improvisation in a performance is by practicing the performance note for note, as you know, getting it down, so that you have the room and the margin to go do something creative, and then kind of come back to that. And when I’m speaking, I’ve had those moments when I’ve practiced and prepared really, really well. Because if I haven’t prepared, I can’t kind of go off on a tangent cuz I don’t know, I don’t know where I’m going to land and I need to get back to the point. But when I prepare really well, then I can kind of jump off and going all kinds of directions. And I’ve had I have had those moments where I go, Hey, that sounds pretty good. That was pretty. That was pretty pithy. I should, should remember that. And it’s, it’s fun. I love I love that I think that creativity is a little bit out of body. It is a little you know, esoteric in a in a good way. You know, it’s there is something sort of mystical and spiritual about it, where you’re tapping into something that is out of body it is outside of you and and beyond you and I think that can be really fun.
David Ralph [41:00]
Hi, are you a loner? Jeff, are you somebody that spends quite a lot of time on his own with his own thoughts so that you can then blast yourself out into the into the media.
Jeff Goins [41:13]
Yeah, I am, I’m not a loner, I like being around people. But then the wrong people too much drains me. I, I think I’m an outgoing extrovert, or I’m an outgoing introvert, which, you know, sounds sort of like an oxymoron or something. But, or paradox, rather. But being around people for a long time drains me. But I like people, I like bouncing ideas off of people. If I didn’t like people, I’m probably wouldn’t, you know, wouldn’t have a blog. I mean, I’m constantly interacting with people every day. But I do recognize that I have to kind of go away and with an idea and wrestle with it, before I can kind of come out of hiding and share it. And so for me, there’s this tension of, I want to be around people. But if I’m around people all the time, I’m actually not going to do my best work. And at the same time, if I’m locked in a closet, my work is never going to affect you know, the people that it needs to reach. So I recognize the need for community as well as the need for solitude.
David Ralph [42:14]
Because what I find fascinating is when you get any kind of success opportunities come your way. And but most of us, we start off with an idea of what we want to be, I wanted to be a host, you wanted to be a writer, but of course that success then leads into other stuff. And you suddenly you’re doing public speaking in your your opinions are being shared with the world? When do you go enough is enough? There’s too much Jeff out there, I’m going to rein it in a bit.
Jeff Goins [42:43]
Yeah, um, I do relate to the the paradox of you get successful at one thing, and then you’re given given other things that become distractions to the core work, you know, you write a book, and then you speak. And then you do interviews. And before you know it, you’re doing a bunch of different things, you have a list of commitments, that aren’t the core thing that you wanted to do. And as a writer, that’s a big temptation. That’s a big risk and distraction for me is that I’m going to be the guy who’s talking about the thing that he said about the other thing that was actually about the thing that he created two years ago, and I haven’t created anything since then. And people are still going, Hey, this is a great book, tell us about it. But inside I’m withering, because I’m not doing the thing that I was made to do, which is I want to I want to write books, I want to spread messages. I feel a little bit unique in that. I love writing. I love speaking I love podcasting. I love technology, I actually like marketing. There’s a portfolio of work that I’ve built that I really enjoy and resonate with. And so for me, it’s not just about doing the one thing, it’s really about having a creative balance or probably more appropriately attention between the different things that I do that that’s still feeling true to me. So but you know, to answer the question, how much is too much? Jeff Goins. You know, my wife probably has a good, excellent, good answer to that. But in terms of goals and getting the word out there, you know, I hope it doesn’t sound arrogant to say, I never wants to think that there’s too much in terms of, if I’m spreading good ideas, telling interesting stories that are challenging the way people think, helping them be more creative and live better lives. I want to continue to spread that message and reach more people. And I’m like I said before, I think the journey is the destination. Anytime where I go, I’ve done it. I’ve arrived, I make enough money. I’m happy enough with what I’ve done. I’m just going to coast. There’s there’s sort of like, that is a deceptive thing, because we talked about saying, you know, do you have enough. And, of course, I have enough, I have plenty. But that doesn’t mean I just kind of, you know, go sit on the beach or stop doing what I meant to do. And the times when I coast and I do it, sometimes there are times when I go at this is this is okay, this is enough. I need to be grateful. That’s when I get really anxious. That’s when I get really unhappy and sometimes depressed because I’m not doing I’m not working. I’m not doing what I was supposed to do. I think that work is good. And so whatever success looks like for you, I think it’s okay to keep keep doing stuff to keep striving keep growing, keep moving in that direction. Now, if you do the unhealthy thing of saying, I’m not going to be happy until that’s a recipe for disaster, I’m trying to enjoy the journey as I go. Without ever believing that I’ve arrived at the final destination.
David Ralph [45:41]
Because I was listening to Pat Flynn today. And he was on episode hundred and 68 or whatever. And he was talking and I thought to myself, this guy hasn’t changed. And I almost felt like going back to episode one to see if I could see the difference because he just seemed totally humble and pleased with these rewards, but still knowing that he’s an ordinary guy, and he’s got responsibilities to their listeners out there. And you seem very similar to that. Is that because you come from well, other than your mom having babies for 90 years? I kind of stable background.
Jeff Goins [46:19]
Um, yeah, I love Pat. And I think that’s that’s absolutely right. And he, he is I know I’ve he’s a friend I’ve you know, been with them in person many times. And Eric, he is everything that he seems on the air and so much more. He’s really a great guy, and deserves every amount of success that he’s gotten and more. He I just, I set out with such meager goals, like I just wanted to write and know that people actually cared about what I was writing and publish a book eventually. And that was like a 10 year goal. I remember going through recently my list of 10 year goals from about three or four years ago. And I did this like a year ago. So within two, two and a half years, I had accomplished all my 10 year goals. And they were like, you know, write a book, quit my job, make enough money to provide for myself and my wife so she could stay home and raise our child. All these things that felt like stupid Lee audacious to me. And they all happened in two years. And really, it was, you know, seven or eight years of practice and failing to get to that point. But I remember sitting down and I and getting really serious about it and saying I’m going to go for it, I’m going to start this blog, I’m going to do it all these internet marketers say to do I’m going to try whatever whatever it takes to see where I can get. And I hope I could just like publish a book and, you know, make enough money through writing and speaking and consulting to just pay my bills. And that would be okay, that was my goal, my goal wasn’t to become rich, or famous, or any of that stuff. So to have exceeded those dreams so quickly, to me, in a way everything feels like gravy. Now, that’s not to say there aren’t moments of discontent or frustration or even disappointment where I you know, sort of overextend myself or get, you know, get greedy or whatever. But I have to keep coming back to that list and go, I’ve already won like this is already a success. And now it’s just a question of how far will this go? How many people can I help kind of reach? And in a way, I think you have to be grateful, because you’ve already got what you said, was sort of a dream. And it happened far sooner than you thought it would? Could could
David Ralph [48:28]
could you see yourself ending up kind of like the Beatles, but your body of work is almost complete. And you’re always battling to achieve those heights. Again, you’re sort of going if you look at sort of the Lennon and McCartney and all those kind of stuff, they do great solo work. But we all want the Beatles back together, you know, that kind of stuff? Can Can you see that you’ve had your highlights already? Or is the work and I get better and better?
Jeff Goins [48:55]
That’s a great question. I think that’s it’s a little complex in that I think the better question would be to ask Paul McCartney, are you happier now than you were with the Beatles? I don’t know the answer that question. But my sense is, he’s probably happier now. Not that it was bad being with the Beatles, but they were young. They were stupid. Their wives got into fights. They, they were growing up right there were growing up together. And there’s all of that, you know, angsty intention of just figuring things out. And now, you know, he’s been doing what he’s been doing for four decades. I think, in some ways, the work that you get remembered for isn’t necessarily always your best work, you know, your your most popular work and who knows what that will be for the Beatles in 1500 years, they might be remembered for something very different for you know, from what we remember them, you know, for those of us that, you know, we’re around, I wasn’t, but for those of us were around when you know, they were together. But I think that’s I can’t answer that question. Because I don’t know. But I think of like Steve Martin, I was watching this. I was watching this performance of Steve Martin, the comedian Steve Martin, the stand up comedian Steve Martin, who probably has peaked, who is, you know, who will be known for his incredible stand up comedy, for a few, you know, pretty good movies, but like Steve’s magnum opus wasn’t, you know, being in you know, what, whatever it was, you know, a recent movie. You know, his his great work was probably stand up comedy, and really innovating, that people don’t understand how innovative Steve Martin was, and how the things that he did, performing night after night after night after night, and doing it in a weird way where he wasn’t funny, like other people were funny, he was awkward. But he kind of created this tribe where people would come to see him do the same act over and over and over again, because it was so precise and so rehearsed in a good way. Anyway, I saw Steve on National Public Television, just probably a year or two ago, and he was playing bluegrass, he was playing a banjo. And he was having the time of his life. And so if you were to ask Steve, right after this performance, this musical performance and he loves bluegrass, he loves that. And he recorded this, this bluegrass album. And if you were to ask him, is this your magnum opus? Is this the thing that people are going to remember you for? I’m pretty sure I don’t know for sure. I don’t want to put words in his mouth. But I’m pretty sure he would say, I don’t know, I don’t care. But in having the time of my life. And for me, I don’t I don’t want to live off of yesterday’s achievements, I want to keep creating, because that’s what, that’s what an artist does. That’s what a writer does. That’s what a creative person has to do to just feel alive. You know, when it’s all over, and they put me in the ground, you know, I’ll let the chips fall where they may, and people can decide what was the great work and what was not so great of work. But, you know, some people are late bloomers, some people peak early, I think the thing that you have to do is, as an artist, you have to keep creating,
David Ralph [52:19]
well, I’ve got a big banner right in front of me, and it is the words of the comedian, Steve Martin, and it simply says, become so good, but they can’t ignore you anymore. And I think that it really says your journey. And it says everyone’s journey who has been touched as the overnight success. But there comes to that point, doesn’t it where they can’t ignore you anymore. Your body of work, just breaks down that wall, and you are starting to create momentum.
Jeff Goins [52:49]
David Ralph [52:50]
And just just for the listeners out there, when Jeff said that he loves blue grass that isn’t a drugs reference that that is a musical reference. I just don’t want Steve my getting on. And saying that we’re we’re bringing him down over the over the web. Now, these are the words of Steve Jobs. And he created a whole theme of the show back in 2005. He didn’t know that you’ve done that badly. He’s left a legacy with these words, and form a wordsmith like yourself, I’m going to play these and then I’m going to ask a very different question to what I normally do. These are Steve Jobs.
Steve Jobs [53:22]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards, 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leaves you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [53:57]
Now those words are on people’s freedom on their Blackboard, they carry him around with them. And I’ve done 400 shows now. And only one person didn’t respond to that. So the first question is, where’s the true power in that? Why is it touching so many people for so many years? And it’s going to keep on doing it?
Jeff Goins [54:20]
Yeah, well, I, that reminds me, I love that. I love that. I love that commencement speech. But I love that quote, especially because I think it’s true. I mean, I was in this job that I didn’t hate didn’t love. I had started out with a lot of excitement for it. But I’d become good at it. It had become comfortable. And I realized I could coast with it. And so then I started making some decisions to become a writer, which was a new, exciting challenge for me. And I thought most of what I had done for seven years as a marketing and communications director, was a waste. I just thought, This is my other career, the career I had before I became a writer. Well, that wasn’t true when I started my journey of not only being a writer, a published author, but also an entrepreneur, you know, a business owner, somebody who had to not just write and sell books, but figure out what how am I going to keep the lights on? And how can I do this in a way that provides some job security where I don’t have to go work at Starbucks or something. And what I ended up doing was tapping into these skills that I had learned for seven years working at this nonprofit. As Jobs said, I had to connect the bat the dots by looking backward. And it reminded me of this quote by Soren Kierkegaard where he says, life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards. And that was, that was definitely true for me. So here I am realizing man, if I would have just practice this or prepared for that, you know, there’s all that regret that comes with that connection to I think, you also realize, Wow, look at what life is maybe God or you know jobs is karma, whatever, but something bigger than me was preparing me for. And I, for me, I was like, wow, I could have missed this. And the big the dots that were connected for me were, I had learned a bunch about business because my my boss had his MBA and was always thrown business books at me and learned a bunch about marketing, becoming an accidental marketing director through, you know, just the need of the organization. And I was able to take all these skills of entrepreneurship and marketing and apply them to my career as a writer. And those, as we know, are invaluable skills, figuring out how do you get attention in this noisy world? Well, you know, running these social media campaigns and learning all these things that I did about SEO, and all these different things, for, you know the organization’s brand, I was able to take those lessons and repurpose them and apply them to, you know, my journey as a writer and, and yet, I had to keep living forward understanding that I understand some of my life by looking backwards, but I have to keep living my life forwards. And do you have a big adult?
David Ralph [57:07]
A moment when you look back? And if you were laying on your deathbed, and you’re 27 year old wife says to you, what was the moment? What was the moment?
Jeff Goins [57:17]
I like that I have a 27 year old
David Ralph [57:21]
is my friend to say He’s my friend.
Jeff Goins [57:25]
I’m a big dot for me if I understand the question correctly, is around around that, you know, time when I was kind of waking up to my purpose, at a conversation with a friend, I felt the itch I hadn’t yet scratched it. And I had a conversation with a friend named Paul and Paul asked me what my dream was. And I said, I didn’t have one. And he said, Really? Because I would have thought that your dream was to be a writer. And as soon as he said that, something struck me in my soul. It felt like I mean, it was it hit me hard. I said, Well, yeah, I guess I guess I’d like to be a writer someday. But that’ll never happen. And he just looked at me and he said, Jeff, you are a writer, you just need to write. And the next day, the next morning, I got up at 5am. And I started writing. And every day after that, for the next year, I wrote and wrote every morning, I would write at least a little bit 500 words every single day for the next year. That conversation led to the practice that led to a breakthrough year for me a breakout year where I accomplish things that I thought were just distant dreams, you know, only months before. So that was a big dot for me.
David Ralph [58:40]
You an inspiration to so many people out there that you you did the work, you know, at five o’clock in the morning, I think the last thing you want to do is jump out of bed and start scribbling notes. But you did it and you kept on doing it. And that that is that’s the nuts and bolts of it, isn’t it? That’s That’s why john Lee Dumas has done 100 million episodes over all the podcast. It’s because it’s that commitment for the cause.
Jeff Goins [59:06]
Yeah, and I think you have to love the work while you’re doing and I certainly did. It was exciting. It wasn’t drudge work for me, wasn’t always easy, but, but I loved it.
David Ralph [59:14]
So just before we send you back in time on the Sermon on the mic, what what will people get from your latest work? The Art of work? What? What’s the avatar for that book?
Jeff Goins [59:25]
Well, the avatars you know, somebody who is like that 27 year old self that I described, you don’t have to be 27. I mean, people who are 35 and 44, and you know, 59, who fit this avatar, but I think it’s somebody who feels like something’s missing, you know, you feel a little bit stuck there, the thing that you’re doing, isn’t quite it. And whether it’s a side gig or a full time job, I think that everybody has an opportunity to do work that matters that they love that resonates with them. That means that answers that question, what should I do with my life? And this is the thing that when you’re lying on your deathbed, with your 27 year old spouse, you’re going to go did I do this? Or did I miss it that I settle for a big paycheck, you know, a nice cushy, corporate job, or just, you know, just for a comfortable life? Because I was afraid this is a book that answers that question, in a practical way. But it also, you know, I think is inspirational enough that I mean, it’s full of stories of people that I interviewed, as well as, you know, successful stories from people like Steve Jobs, and Walt Disney and Mother Teresa. But it’s really a book that’s intended to answer the question, What do I do with my life so that I don’t just succeed at something, but I succeed at the right thing that I live a good life, I do great work that will hopefully be remembered. How do I leave a legacy that matters and the art of work describes that whole path, that whole journey through lots of research and interviews and insights that I learned along the way, you know, following my own
David Ralph [1:01:05]
my own path, that that is the manual of join up dots that’s literally what this show was created border to bring that part, but people are scrambling around for and they can’t quite see it until it hits them in the face. And that’s the annoying part. When you sit down with your mate, and he says to you, you are a writer, you kind of think, Yeah, I am. Why couldn’t I see that before? And it’s that kind of body of work, the art of work, that can really sort of focus your attention back into yourself so that you can see the things before other people have to point it out to you.
Jeff Goins [1:01:38]
Yeah, no, I love that.
David Ralph [1:01:40]
Well, this is the part of the show when we’re going to send you back in time to have a journey. And you’re going to go back and speak to the young Jeff. And if you could go back and speak to the younger version of yourself, what age would you choose? And what advice would you give? Well, we’re going to find out, because I’m going to play the theme. And when it Phaedra up, this is the Sermon on the mic.
Unknown Speaker [1:02:04]
Here we go with the best bit of the show.
Jeff Goins [1:02:21]
Hey, teenage Jeff, it’s big Jeff. And not that much bigger, we didn’t really have any sort of growth spurts or anything. So you know, don’t be looking forward to that. That’ll be disappointing. Hey, I just wanted to, you know, tell you some things that I think will be helpful to you as you sort of navigate through, you know, Middle School, which feels like you’re just trying to survive right now in high school, and then college and then the real world. First of all, the internet wasn’t just some crazy fad. And, you know, chat rooms did not stick around. So you know, learn everything you can about that. Second, no flying no fly cars so far. Yeah, I’m a little bit bummed about that, too. Still holding holding out for that. Lastly, you did end up getting married, you had a kid did a bunch of grown up stuff. Some of the things that you did, you will probably say we sold out, you know, like actually worked for a paycheck. Other things, I think that’s, you know, you’ll be really pleased with, so I just want to kind of give you some updates on that. First of all, go buy some stock in Apple. Seriously, I’m not joking about that. I know, it sounds kind of crazy right now. But we’re really going to want to do that. Second of all, I want you to keep playing guitar and creating art and spend time writing and expressing yourself create creatively, this isn’t some crazy, you know, hobby, it’s will be a big part of what you do for the rest of your life. And, and you won’t regret it. Next, I think you should get better about making commitments and keeping them this will be something that we all struggle with for a long time. And the sooner that you learn how to do this, the better life will be. I think you should travel sooner more often. When when we started traveling the world, it opened our eyes to so many amazing things. Anyway, just pick a college already, I know that you’re going to go through about nine or 10 of them and just pick one because you actually end up going to one that you don’t even look at. Learn more about business, get into shape sooner, read more. Again, keep creating art, do creative things, and invest in a few relationships. Don’t be afraid of people and certainly stop trying to win their approval. The reality is most of the people you’re afraid of right now end up being losers. So don’t worry too much about that. And lastly, I want to, I want you to know this that even though you know people laugh at you and look at you funny. That’s and you try to do things they don’t always succeed, that I want you to remember that you are not what you do, but you do become what you practice. And so focus on a few creative things, things that light you up right now. And keep doing them regardless of what people say it’s going to pay off in big, big ways in the future. I love you. And it was good to talk.
David Ralph [1:05:30]
Jeff, this is probably the most stupid question I’ve ever asked bearing in mind. I’ve been talking to a man who’s been trying to take over the internet. But how can our audience connect with you sir?
Jeff Goins [1:05:41]
best place to find me is to go to my blog Goins writer calm and if you go there, you can sign up for my free email list and you’ll actually get the first couple of chapters to the art of work for free. no cost to you at all just go to coins writer that’s like coins but with the G G o ins writer calm, and it’ll tell you what to do there.
David Ralph [1:06:01]
will have over links on the show notes. Jeff, thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots. Please come back again when you have more dots to join up because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Mr. Jeff Goins, thank you so much.
Jeff Goins [1:06:17]
Thank you, David is a pleasure.
David Ralph [1:06:21]
Thanks for listening to today’s episode of join up dots brought to you exclusively by podcasters mastery.com. The only resource that shows you how to create a show, build an income and still have time for the life that you love. Check out podcasters mastery com
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