Welcome to the Steve Jobs based Join Up Dots Free Podcast Interview with Andrew Winston
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Introducing Andrew Winston
Todays guest joining us on the Join Up Dots free podcast interview, is a globally recognized expert on how companies can navigate and profit from humanity’s biggest challenges.
What this means, is instead of going to work, and then coming home and focusing our efforts on being “green” and arranging our household activities on being green and protecting the planet, he says “why don’t we do it all the time?”
Why can companies do the same as we do personally, and focus their efforts on operating in a green way too.
His views on strategy have been sought after by many of the world’s leading companies, including Boeing, HP, J&J, Kimberly-Clark, PepsiCo, PwC, and Unilever.
His first book, Green to Gold, was the topselling green business title of the last decade and was included in many all-time lists of 30 books that every manager should own.
He is an author, Ted talk veteran, businessman and of course recognised expert across the world on this subject.
So where did this realisation that companies can actually find a way to profit from being green, and the excesses of the past are not the way to go forward with an increasing profit sheet?
And does he find his message, is getting easy to pass on nowadays, or is it still an up hill path that he is walking?
Well let’s bring onto the show to start joining up dots, as we discuss the words of Steve Jobs in todays free podcast, with the one and only Andrew Winston
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Andrew Winston such as:
How he remembers the first step that he took on his path was back in 2001, and how he spent a few weeks trying to find a passion about something that he was passionate about (that he hadn’t done before.) He knew he didn’t want to repeat the cycle he was on.
How it took five years for him to write his first book, which turned out to hugely different period of time from his wildly inaccurate original estimate of one year.
How it is so difficult to balance work and life balance, and being focused on the needs of our children and family, when work and passions collide..
How a polar bear in the wrong place is a bad thing, whilst a polar bear in its own habitat must be preserved.
How To Connect With Andrew Winston
You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here– enjoy
Full Transcription Of Andrew Winston Interview
David Ralph [0:00]
Today’s show is brought to you by podcasters mastery.com, the premier online community teaching you to podcast like a pro. Check us out now. podcasters mastery.com
when we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK. David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:37]
Yes, hello there, everybody and welcome to do you know it’s the 400th episode of Join Up Dots not including the bonus episodes that we throw out but 400 times we’ve had an entrepreneur, a mover a shaker an offer or somebody just getting off their backside and doing stuff on the show, and it’s an absolute delight to have somebody onto the Who is? Well, quite honestly, he’s exactly the same age as me. So we’ve got some connection already. And that’s probably about as far as he goes because he is a globally recognised expert on how companies can navigate and profit from humanity’s biggest challenges. Now, what this means is instead of going to work and then coming home and focusing our efforts on being green, and arranging our household activities on being green and protecting the planet, he says, Why don’t we do it all the time? Why did some companies do the same, but others don’t? Why don’t we all do it and really personally focus our efforts on operating in a green way across the spectrum. his views on strategy have been sought after by many of the world’s leading companies, including Boeing, HP, Kimberly Karp, PepsiCo and Unilever and his first book, green to gold was the top selling green business title of the last decade, and was included in many all time a list of 30 books that every manager should own. He’s an author. He’s a typical veteran businessman and of course recognised expert across the world on this subject. So where did this realisation that companies can actually find a way to profit from being green come from? And the excesses of the past are not a way to go forward with an increasing profits sheet? And does he find these messages getting easier to pass on nowadays? Oh, is he still an uphill path that he’s walking? Well, let’s find out, as we bring on the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr. Andrew Winston, how are you, Andrew?
Andrew Winston [2:29]
I’m good. How are you doing today?
David Ralph [2:31]
I’m a very well, I’ve just hit 400. I can’t feel better than that. And you’re, you’re with me on this journey. It’s I’m gonna cut to the chase really, really quickly on this one? Because I think with everyone, and I’m going to talk about myself a little bit here, Andrew, although the episode is about you, when you start something, you really don’t know that first step, do you? And then suddenly, you’re 400 episodes and you think, Wow, how did that occur? Do you remember your first step of thinking right? got the idea, but how the hell do I do it?
Andrew Winston [3:04]
Yeah, I mean, I guess the first step in this phase of my, my career, I mean, I guess we all have different different periods, right? We have different different career times. You know, the first step for me started back in 2001. And I do you remember, I mean, I was I was actually unemployed and had just come through the.com crash and was, you know, my company went down and was trying to figure out where I wanted to go and realise that I didn’t want to go back to the things I had been doing before that which was working in big companies and doing kind of traditional strategy and marketing work and I wanted to find something that was more passionate and and connected to my values more and, and I just started looking around for ways that the business and environmental issues overlapped. And so I had a few weeks in I think june of oh one where I I talked to a college one of my college roommates who was doing some work and had been to grad school environmental issues and he said, you know, you should, here’s a book you should read, here’s some things you should think about. And I started reading a couple key books that were really, really influential for me. And it was really just over the course of two or three weeks that I just saw the world very differently and saw the amazing opportunity for business to lead I think, the world and kind of a new direction and, and change the way business has always done. And I’ve spent the last, you know, 14 years now trying to make that happen. And
David Ralph [4:27]
so when you look at works, did you think to yourself, that was three weeks building up to that three weeks, it was literally I was a Cold Spring ready for that message? Or when you look back, do you think oh, that was quite lucky, actually that I found something in that time?
Andrew Winston [4:43]
Well, I mean, it’s always both right and life. I mean, I think there’s there’s things that looking back seemed like a perfect pathway to get you there. But then there’s also luck. I mean, and I had the I had the luck of I had I had just gotten married and which was lucky. You know, personal Because, you know, my wife is great, but, but it also meant that she had a salary. She was working and, you know, my duck calm was was down and, and I wasn’t and I got I had the ability to kind of step back and say, Well, what do I really want to do? You know, when I had, you know, changed jobs or change careers a little bit earlier in my life, I had, you know, didn’t have that backing, I was single, and, you know, kind of had to find something. And this allowed me to say, hey, let me let me start studying this. And I went back to school, and went got a graduate degree. So I was really lucky to have that support. And I give, you know, her amazing credit because she ended up kind of waiting for me to have a real salary for a while, as I was, you know, researching, doing, you know, doing some some consulting and, and going back to grad school and then writing this this book that kind of made my name in this field. And all that took, you know, five years and so it was Oh, yes. Actually not Yes, she did. I was gonna joke that she, she disappeared, but she did say because she had been we had been dating while I got my, my MBA, she did say that was the last graduate degree I was, I was allowed to get because, you know, she said, you can get another one, but you can get another wife at that point. Because it’s not, I guess, so fun to be, you know, dating and marrying and being with a student, you know, so I was drawing very, very little income for a number of years in there, as I wrote, wrote the book and had a little consulting and a little bit of foundation support for the for the book I was doing. So she was making the, the bulk of the money, but we, we flip flopped, you know, years later, when my book came out, and then we had our second child and she got to stay home and, and, you know, raise the kids and, and I got out on the road, you know, doing my work. So we had this incredible moment in our history where we just flipped it was almost the course of a week or two where I was home all the time and she wasn’t and then all of a sudden, I was travelling a tonne and she was home. So it was, you know, this is this is how hopefully You know, partnerships work, right? Oh, absolutely.
David Ralph [7:01]
Yeah, I’ve been Maui for probably 400 years now, I can’t even remember what it seems a long, long time.
Andrew Winston [7:09]
And you’re just gonna say you were married four times when you said I was married for?
David Ralph [7:13]
Geez, you know, it’s hard enough to keep going, let alone for, God forbid? No, it’s um, it’s when I look back on my marriage, I would say to myself, more often than not my wife supports me, even though she doesn’t understand. That’s the key point. And did your wife go that same route? Did she understand that? You were doing something that was good for you, even though she might have said in our head of I could say three years down the line and he stood at 40?
Andrew Winston [7:43]
Yeah, I guess there was some there was some moments of that. We’ve had conversations about that years later. I mean, I think neither of us knew the time it would take to write a good book. You know, I’ve, I’ve put up my third book last year, and so I have a much better sense of what it takes, but The first one was kind of the the big deal. And you know, she understood signing up for grad school and I and I managed to convince the school to let me do this one year accelerated masters. So that was not two years away, but one so that helped. And then I signed up, you know, with a co author who was a professor there and we said, okay, we’re going to write this book and I thought it was gonna be like a year, and we were, you know, completely ignorant I guess of what it was going to really take and, and so it ended up being three and I think there were some times in that, you know, second and third year where she you know, was probably like, okay, let’s get this, let’s get this done. But I was working hard, you know, and she saw what it took to me there was I was travelling around the world to go do interviews and talk to companies about why they were looking at environmental issues broadly speaking, and how they were handling it. And you know, resulted in this book green to gold, which is done really well so it’s easy looking back now to say it was all it was all worth it. But yeah, at the time, there were some stress. We had a you know, we had our first child in there when I grabbed when we came out of ground School and, and, you know, so there was a little baby roaming around in a little toddler and went from birth he’s now going to be 12 so yeah, he you know he so yeah, he went from New newborn to toddler actually walking and talking before the book came out. Actually the book came, you know, was printed and went to the warehouse the day the second child was born. So when he’s now he’s now almost nine. So it’s um, you know, they’re like real people. Now it’s kind of I look at the, the inscription in the first book and you know, it says, you know, to my soon to be soon to my son Joshua and my soon to be second son soon to be named second son. So it’s kind of it’s a particular moment in time. And do they
David Ralph [9:45]
know what you do? Because this is one of the things that I find very interesting with entrepreneurs who have got young families, because they’re kind of location freedom and time freedom and more often than not, they can go to the school plays and all that kind stuff. The kids don’t actually feel that their dad does anything. I was listening to a show the other day yesterday with Michael Douglas. And the first 12 years. Anyone who asked that the he some what your dad does, would be told he sits at home and makes pancakes. And that was it.
Andrew Winston [10:20]
That’s very Michael Douglas the actor. Yeah, that’s it. Nobody. That’s that’s very funny. Well, actually, it’s funny you say that because my oldest one when he was, I don’t know, probably five or six he. I was, you know, I do a lot of speaking around the world a lot of keynotes and, and consulting. And so I travel a lot. And I had, you know, some years are more than others and kind of his third, fourth, fifth year were heavy, heavy travel. And he at one point, you know, I think someone asked what he did what I do, and he says he flies around and talks to people. And, and I realised that was not far off. It was it was, you know, pretty, pretty true, but they, you know, they know the name of the book and they know that it’s about You know, business I, you know, it’s funny the hardest thing to explain his business to a kid, like what is a business? You know, and it’s hard to explain to an adult I think sometimes and, and, you know, what does it mean what strategy you know, that’s that’s also hard to explain but they get the environment thing and I mean kids today are pretty attuned and they understand climate that there’s climate change issues and you know, but they they often don’t exactly know why I have to leave and they’re now old enough to be aware that I’m travelling a lot and I missed some things but but it’s funny I do I do try to make it back to the concerts and the plays and but I do miss some and my son You know, they’ll get angry about it but I was like, Look, you know, we have this conversation. Right I gotta be away this week. I’m going to miss your you know, band concert but and he’ll get he’ll get mad about I said, but you like to eat right? And you like when we go on vacation and you like our home but this is you know, he
David Ralph [11:51]
was hyping him. That’s what you were doing.
Andrew Winston [11:54]
I said no, I just say this is how I make my living. You know, this is how we live and you know, I’m trying to teach them about money. And, and I mean, this is a kind of tough topic, right? How do you? How do you raise kids that are aware of money without being obsessed and aware of all they have in the world? And have some perspective, it’s really difficult. You know, because they have a lot. Because
David Ralph [12:15]
when I started this show, I was literally doing 20 hours a day getting it going now it’s much, much easier, and it is a bit of a breeze. And my daughter said to me, oh, will you come to see me in The Wizard of Oz, and a lot of the school plays you think, Oh, my God, it’s gonna be some weird story because they do this thing now. But I have to have every single kid has to have a part, even if it’s just one line. Yes. So they all stand up and sit down over an hour and a half. And she had one of the main parts in The Wizard of Oz. So I thought, Oh, this is a walk over. So I get there and I look at the menu and the running order. And I could see that she’s in the first bit and then there’s about 25 minute gap and she’s not in there at all. And I was so tired and it was only 10 past nine in the morning, but I sat myself right At the very back, and once she finished I thought I just close my eyes, I’m in the back row, nobody can see me at all. And an hour and a half later, I opened my eyes and the whole place was empty. Everyone had got up and walked out and I was still fast asleep. So, but I think that’s one of the things when you realise that your entrepreneurial passions have overtaken you realise that that work life balance isn’t right. Have you had times when you fought yourself literally, you’re walking dead you feel like a zombie because you’re pushing that boulder uphill?
Andrew Winston [13:34]
Yeah, I mean, there’s there’s a lot of that and I have a you know, I again, I travel a lot, there’s been lots of crazy travel, travel times, you know, round trips to the west coast in a day, you know, go to China for two days, you know, just but I usually, you know, feel like that is the right choice for me now because I do want to get home and see my kids grow up. And I try to get back as quickly as I can, but it does does really drain you you know, and you don’t, you don’t get to kind of stop and smell the roses. People say, Oh, you should, you should stay you’re in Shanghai or you should, you know, you’re somewhere interesting, you should stay and look around. I’m like, but and do what by myself. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting but I kind of, I kind of, I try to take advantage when I can go see something, you know, I saw the Great Wall while I was there on a whirlwind car ride out to the wall and but mostly I’m trying to get home. And, you know, you know, do what I do need to do for clients and stay through dinner or through whatever they need. But But basically, if they don’t need me get home and it’s a tough balancing act. It really is. I mean, that, that I think that the challenge is I’m finding or you know, that like everybody is now that digital kind of intrusion and just trying to, you know, keep your weekends at least blocked off. If you need to do some work, you know, do it in a block, you know, go into my office for a couple hours and then just be with my kids the rest of the time, but it just doesn’t work out that well. You know, I’ll be at a baseball game for my kid and baseball can be really boring. And, and there’s lots of time between your kid doing anything and I’ll be just checking in on my phone and and you know and the other day I forgot it just randomly didn’t bring it to a game and I was like well this is kind of fun I’m just sitting here watching watching the game and it’s just hard I mean we as a family sit down January 1 and try to set goals for the year for each of us and as a family and one of the ones that you know the kids encouraged me to have us you know, be present more and you know, leave my phone at home sometimes and you know, be you know be with them when I’m when I’m with them and it’s it’s just a constant challenge for everybody now, but but how
David Ralph [15:30]
to do that I’m going to aspect Andrew because I don’t own a phone or anything and I talk about this a lot in the show when I switch off my computer that’s it, no one can get me but mentally I know about when I’m with the family and they say oh come on watch this film. I’m not actually there. And like that what happened in and I go oh, I don’t know I’m sure it’s not important. Lindsay Lohan says the same things all the time. And
Andrew Winston [15:54]
back into the field. You have girls
David Ralph [15:56]
No, look just above effeminate boys. Now I’m I have have three know how many do I have? I have four girls and a boy but the proud eldest ones have grown up and we
Andrew Winston [16:06]
really had time then for habit if with all these podcasts to have five kids, you’ve had time somewhere
David Ralph [16:11]
very quick, very quick.
Andrew Winston [16:15]
Okay, too much information,
David Ralph [16:16]
too much information on the first thing in the morning. But yeah, so I find it’s the mental aspect that I find hard to switch off from a passion because yeah, if if it’s not work, once you get to a certain point, work becomes play and play becomes work. So how do you do that?
Andrew Winston [16:32]
I don’t know if I have a good answer. I you know, I I’m trying to meditate regularly. That’s a big one everyone talks about. I think it does help and I’ve been pretty consistent this year. It was another one of my, you know, annual kind of resolutions, but this time I seem to have gotten into the habit at least and I think it does help. It’s, it is hard. I mean, I work on kind of being in the moment or being present. Turning off distractions. I’m still I’m still kind of stuck on you saying you don’t have a phone. I don’t know. I mean, I’ve now been in a bunch of audiences lately where I or someone else’s just to make a point about connectivity. You know, I write a lot and talk a lot about transparency in business and how connected we all are. And I just say, does anybody here not have a device on them? And nobody raises their hand anymore? I’ve been in groups of 1000 2000 people. So maybe you’re the one
David Ralph [17:20]
well Well, I don’t have anything
Andrew Winston [17:22]
it’s impressive. It’s it’s very very unusual now and usually when I see someone who doesn’t have one it’s because they forgot they just left it somewhere by mistake or was stolen you know, but I you know, I try to find a way to be in the moment but it is really difficult because everybody works differently. My wife was, you know, an amazing business person and she when she was in the working world, she she could just work all day and come home and that was that would be it she would just focus and I need kind of breaks all the time and I but but it’s always going on in my head I’ll you know I’ll be in the shower and I’ll write you know, have a blog come to me or what I want to write or what I want to say or I’ll I’ll be walking somewhere and do have that those moments when I’m with family and I’m distracted and it’s just the way my brain works. So you kind of, you can’t change who you are fundamentally and how your how you work. So I think some of it’s about having, you know, if something comes to you, you know, make sure you have some paper nearby or something with you, you can jot it down or on your phone and, and just try to get it out of your head, I’ll send myself an email, you know, with with an idea and just try to get it out of your head. But it’s it’s a challenge, you know, to kind of be in the moment and I find that if I at least have kind of scanned the stuff I have to do and know roughly what’s in my inbox even if I haven’t emptied it. I can relax usually over a weekend day and kind of let it all go if I know, kind of that I’ve gotten to the main things and responded to what I need to or know when I’m going to, if at least I’ve got that kind of structured and planned out. It helps.
David Ralph [18:50]
So if we take you back in time, like we like to do on Join Up Dots to be young Andrew, that’s all of the seven year old 10 year old. Were you very proud His own green issues when you go into sort of nature and the planet those days.
Andrew Winston [19:05]
No Actually that’s what’s kind of funny about it. I wasn’t I wasn’t a tree hugger. We weren’t a tree hugger family I am I joke I’m it’s not really a joke but my father was a had allergies and was allergic to grass. So we were never camping. I was in the weed. I didn’t do Boy Scouts. I was in the Indian guides. I grew up in South Florida. And I remember we there was a camping trip with the Indian guides and we went to like, the day Park Did you know kind of roasting and some stuff around the day but then we went home because my dad was just gonna like,
David Ralph [19:35]
well, Indian guys have never heard
Andrew Winston [19:37]
of him. Indian guys are like Boy Scouts. Not every region has them. But you know you I don’t know. I mean, I forget we had like, you know, indian names. I was like little bear or something like that, you know, and and you’re doing you know, outdoor things and you know, roasting and I mean, it just can’t you know, doing stuff and then you know meeting and yeah, it was you know, silly stuff but uh, you know, we didn’t who so we didn’t have this kind of outdoor net and nature thing, I don’t remember going to a lot of national parks or anything like that it was, you know, and I didn’t, I wasn’t, um, you know, kind of active as a college student, I wasn’t doing environmental work, I didn’t come out and do environmental work. In my first jobs. I was working at Boston Consulting Group as a consultant. And then in media companies, Time Warner and Viacom, I worked at MTV, that was my last kind of big company job. But, you know, I had, you know, as a young adult, and started, you know, doing some things in my personal life, I’m a vegetarian, and, you know, kind of did that from a resource perspective, I just read about how much, you know, water and land and the energy it takes to, you know, make meat and I thought, well, let me let me see if I can, you know, live without it, and it kind of stuck. And that was, you know, changing light bulbs in the house, just doing what I thought was responsible. But I’ve always come at this from a very kind of very practical perspective. The reason I, you know, think we need, you know, to kind of work on environmental issues is because it’s not about saving the planet, you know, that the planets fall. Do the plant the plant, it’ll be fine with or without us. So it’s always been kind of, I think the wrong way to talk about this, let’s go save the planet of the polar bears, like, you know, we don’t really care about the polar bears. I mean, that’s the dirty secret, I think, you know, people, you know, are too busy and care about their own lives and their families and, and, you know, this is about us, this is about humanity and how well we can thrive and will we prosper. And I think, you know, we’re using up the resources that support our existence and our, our economy and we’re destabilising the planet. I mean, that the the climate is the biggest kind of, you know, asset we have a stable climate that we can live in and grow food in and have coastal cities in and we’re destabilising it. So I’ve always come at this from a perspective of, we have to change how we’re doing things we can do it better we can do it cleaner and, and more efficiently. And, and we can live a life that’s that’s you know, clean air and clean water and a stable climate and all have everything we need to live but but we’re gonna have to change how we think about business and how we think about even capitalism in pretty deep ways. And that’s kind of what my work is about in my last books called the big pivot about this deep change we need in in business, because I think business is going to lead so I’ve kind of it was never like a thing that came from my childhood of, you know, being a tree hugger. It’s just that I believe in very practical way that we need to manage our resources. It’s like managing your home. You know, you don’t say you’re a home lover because you want your you know, your roof to not have a hole in it or you want it or you want insurance on it. You know, you just you take care of your home because this is where you live.
David Ralph [22:38]
is true what you say, though, about polar bears, as as you as musing about my mobile phone situation, I was musing about polar bears and we all say polar bears are lovely, but they’re loved because where they are, you know, if you took a polar bear, hurt a polar bear what you call them a flock
Andrew Winston [22:54]
of birds. Oh, God, I don’t know. That’s a good question. Is it a herd a pack,
David Ralph [22:57]
whatever they are, and you stick with me In the middle of New York City running around there, I think it’ll get shut down because they’re in the long run.
Andrew Winston [23:06]
Did you ever see there’s a famous Nissan LEAF ad of the of the electric car that they they ran like five years ago, a polar bear kind of walking solely from the Arctic. And you can tell he’s coming through the tundra is coming through like Canada. And then he gets to the suburban home. And there’s a guy about to get in his Nissan LEAF and the pullover stands up on his hind legs and hugs him for like driving this green car. And I always found that ad and that ad has been used as kind of a classic like green marketing. Partly good, partly bad, because it’s kind of ridiculous. But I’ve always thought like if an actual polar bear showed up in your driveway hugging you is not really what would, you know, would be on your mind it would it would be how dangerous they are. That’s
David Ralph [23:44]
the only reason we have children so we can throw them in front of us. A mica right? Yeah, I’m gonna be well safe if a polar bear walks up the vote to me, but well, how’d you get that idea of invite you in that three weeks you look around You find something that you’re passionate about how do you take that idea which so many people get to, I can actually make a business out of this? I can make a living out of that, because that’s that’s the big leap, isn’t it?
Andrew Winston [24:11]
Yeah, it is a big leap. And I mean, I it’s a good question. I, you know, I didn’t know that there would necessarily be a living out of it. I mean, there, there were people already working in business. On sustained, you know, what people call sustainability issues there. There were very, very few at that time with the kind of sustainability in their title. And now there’s, you know, in the fortune 500, Every company has somebody, and there’s chief sustainability officers, and it’s really evolved, but there are people doing environmental work, and there are people working on policy, obviously, with with government, you know, so I went back to school kind of on faith that I’ll find something to do when I come out. And that I would, you know, maybe work in a company or go to a consulting firm and they were, you know, there were consulting firms kind of helping companies with these issues. But it wasn’t It was unclear what I was what I was going to be able to do. And I, I didn’t necessarily think a book was gonna create a career, but it was something to do and something to kind of become an expert in the field. And I always thought it’d be fun to have a book. And, you know, what happened was, you know, the book came out. And then, you know, I was doing my co author and I were both kind of doing speaking. And he was a professor, so he had kind of his his tenure and his salary. And, you know, but I needed to figure out what to do next. And, you know, we were both doing some speaking, I was doing a little bit more. And then people started asking, you know, asking me to come speak, and then people started paying me to speak. And I was like, Oh, wait a minute. There’s, there’s actually like a income stream here. From kind of being a knowledge source and kind of getting up on stage and telling people a story about the world and educating them but also entertaining them and trying to move them you know, move the needle. And so I realised there was, you know, a business to be had and speaking and in, you know, consulting on my own I, I figured I might go to a big consulting firm into a company, but I haven’t needed to. So I’ve had a, you know, a good 10 years where I’ve kind of had my own business and done advising and work with large, you know, really large companies. And I work in partnership I have, you know, part I’ve had partnerships with different consulting firms. Right now I work with PwC, the big big four accounting firm, and, you know, we have a kind of joint business relationship, I bring them in when I need kind of big, big support and manpower and, you know, horsepower, and they bring me in at times to, you know, speak or advise to some of their clients. You know, so I’ve always kind of worked in partnership and had been kind of a one man shop with, with a lot of support, you know, kind of support network and, and it’s worked for me, you know, it has pros and cons, but, you know, I’ve made a good living and had a good, a good life and I, you know, I, I’m, I’m, you know, glad and kind of, I guess lucky to make this happen. It’s not It’s not always easy, you know, you’re kind of there. I’m in the business of you know, guess what people call eat what you kill you know, you guys to kind of keep making money, sell the next talk, sell the next consulting project, but somehow I’ve made it work.
David Ralph [27:06]
Well, I’m gonna play some words now that we always play around about this time. But you’ve led us perfectly to this point. And these are the words that we’re saying might be a couple of years ago by Jim Carrey.
Andrew Winston [27:16]
My father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.
David Ralph [27:43]
Now, very profound words, but we be yourself Andrew, did you know that you were going to love it when you took that risk? You were going to write the book. Have you grown to love it, but at the time when you started it was just something to do.
Andrew Winston [27:58]
It’s a good it’s it’s a really Interesting question Did I know i’d love it? I don’t know. I mean, I certainly had always wanted to have some more passionate about my work I liked. I liked the work I did before I worked in fun places like MTV, and did strategy work. And that’s still in a lot of ways. What I do is corporate strategy, but I hoped I certainly suspected that I would love it. I, it was funny, because I’d always you know, in my 20s, in my first career, I kind of always admired people who seem to know exactly what they want to do, and, and it’s to a lot of people. I’m now one of those people too. But I think that the dirty secret we all have in life is that outside of a very rare kind of super driven people, most of us are trying to figure out what we want to be when we grow up, and then we wake up and we’re middle aged, and we’re like, how’d that happen? You know, and then all of a sudden, it seems like there was a logical path to it all. So I don’t know if I knew that I certainly didn’t know that I’d be making a career with so much. Things like speaking I never thought I’d be a speaker. It never occurred to me. I didn’t know that was a career frankly, that that was part of a career. And I think scheduling You know, I mean, it’s funny, I get asked this all the time because people you know, I think I’m good at it and it’s one of the best things I do, but I used to be a performer. And so this this goes, you know, we haven’t talked about this but that that kind of everything leads kind of somehow there’s a story to everybody and everything you do somehow contributes to what you end up doing. Join
David Ralph [29:19]
me join us Up Dots. Yes,
Andrew Winston [29:20]
there you go. I was a singer. All through my youth and through college, I was in an acapella group in college and then my wife and I kind of re met we met in college briefly but we met in a singing group in New York doing kind of semi professional singing so I had been on stage a lot and being a strategy consultant you’re giving presentations all the time and when I was at Boston Consulting Group, and so I you know, started to speak around around this book, The first book green to gold and around this topic and just enjoyed it and always enjoyed I enjoy getting on stage. I like having giant audiences and and it also helps when you’re really passionate about it. You know, I really, I everyone always says this, they see me speak and they think I’m a good speaker, but they just say you know, it’s so clear. I, I know what I’m talking about. But I believe what I’m saying. And, and especially with things that can be really contentious things like climate change have been so contentious in the US for, you know, years. But I find that if you get up and you, you clearly believe what you’re saying, and it’s not, you know, you’re wrong, or I’m right, but just this is what I believe about the world. It’s hard for people to be angry. They can disagree. Yeah, right. But, but it really disarms people. So you end up having a real conversation. So I had I known I’d be speaking a lot, I’d say, Yeah, sure. I’ll love it. I didn’t know there’d be that I didn’t know I’d be writing so much. I was I was kind of a quant, a quantitative guy was, you know, big math geek through through my youth and was an economics major in college and was almost a math major, but that was too much work. In college, I wanted more fun, and I thought I’d do a lot more with numbers. But you know, you can’t decide or control what’s going to happen. So it’s, it’s kind of, you know, difficult to know where you’re going to end up sometimes, but You know, I do, I do like what I do. But who knew?
David Ralph [31:04]
You know, who knew? I think you know, a bit. This is a thing about this show it comes up time and time again. And I think when we do look back and Join Up Dots, we can go, yeah, I can see where that’s coming from. And one of the things that you spoke about vein, which I thought, yeah, I can see that when you are inspired. And when you are passionate, when you’re standing up in front of a crowd, and you’re speaking about something you truly believe so many people buy into it big time, because they want to feel that way themselves. And I look at you standing up there with confidence and laying it all out. And I think yes, that’s that’s what we should be doing. But somehow they’re being held back. So I think he was always going to be on that path. And I think he said, given that you were going to be
Andrew Winston [31:48]
Yeah, I think so. I mean, looking back at kind of, I don’t know not about to, I guess draw off lessons of fate or kind of at all working out but I do. I do know that I had different jobs. I had, you know different Things that lead to here. And they all kind of get us that was in marketing and strategy when I made this leap when you said did you know i? I didn’t know if I was like God am I leaving behind all this marketing and strategy work I’ve done and branding work, but now it comes up all the time. And part of what made me I think, successful in this field and what made our the book The first book I wrote successful was that I came at it from a business and marketing perspective, not a environmentalist perspective. And then having that voice having that kind of previous background, I think, helped a lot. So there’s, I think, I always tell people, you know, I get a lot of questions from undergrads and grad students, what should I do and where should I go? And, you know, I say like, go just start, just go down a path you’ll use whatever you’ve you’ve learned, you’ll find a way to leverage but just go learn, you know, go take a job doesn’t have to be the perfect, the perfect job.
David Ralph [32:46]
You’ll find a way to do something, isn’t it? That’s what you’re saying. Just Just get off your sofa, turn off friends that you’ve watched 900 times and just do something and that’s every single person that I have spoken to him. We’ve done for 100 episodes now, as I say, like never once said to me, do you know, when I was eight years old, this man came into my bedroom, which sounds a bit wrong, but go with me on this one, and gave me this book. And they told me that if I follow these instructions, I will get this success. What would have happened in that story was a bloke would come in, give him a book. And when it opens, it’ll be total blank pages make up your own story. Because that’s the thing, isn’t it? You You go off in the direction and you try something and you don’t like it. So you go off in a different direction, and you just keep on walking around. And then suddenly, something happens and you think this is this is what I love, but you’re not good at it. You just feel like you’re gonna love it. And then you move on, you move on, and then you get better, you get better, and other people are starting to notice you that makes you feel better and you feel more confident. And then you keep on going forward. And it just kind of swells up somehow. But at the very beginning, it’s just clueless time. Not one person has ever said to me, I’ve had the idea. I knew what doing?
Andrew Winston [34:01]
Well, I think there’s a very few out there. I think you look at really driven politicians or there’s some, you know, there’s some people who know, or at least categories like people I know who knew they wanted to be an entrepreneur knew they wanted to run a business that didn’t almost care what it was or people who knew they wanted to be in politics. I mean, everyone knew those people in school or college who were seemed like they were preparing their resume and didn’t want to be. I mean, these days is even harder, but didn’t want to be taped or filmed doing something that could be held against them. You know, you knew they were gonna run for senate someday, you know, you think there’s people like that, but it is rare. And you read these profiles of like the kind of big company CEO types, and they all seem to be the same profile, this person gets up at 4am and read seven papers and works out and you know, I’m always amazed at that kind of drive. It’s,
David Ralph [34:47]
I kind of think people should be stopped actually now. The wheel young ones when you see him an f4 and they’re dressed in a suit with a little briefcase and you know that they’re aiming to be the Prime Minister. I kind of think I’ll just have a life Just have a life for the first 20 years, make mistakes, get drunk, sleep with people that you shouldn’t and then put it all together and do what you should
Andrew Winston [35:08]
perhaps same sex kids.
David Ralph [35:10]
Absolutely. And that comes from Andrew Winston and that will be he’s both book
Andrew Winston [35:14]
will be the quote, yes, that will be the quote of this of this talk. Now, but it’s true, I was just I was just with my nephew. I was in London and he was on a study abroad. And he’s a junior in college and I and he was talking about his month crapping on Europe because apparently there weren’t that many classes at the school he was at, and he’s, you know, just thinking God, it’s great to be 21 it’s such an amazing time you have no responsibilities, you know, if you’re lucky enough to you know, come from a good background and, you know, have enough money to go to a good school, I mean, all these if you’re lucky, you know, and there’s a lot of kids who fall into this, and you can do what you want for a while and kind of find your way it’s the freedom of it is is really something
David Ralph [35:53]
I read a book once and it was by Martina Amos and it was called times arrow and everything runs Reverse. And yeah, it kind of blew your mind because in it, the Nazis were great people who were like taking dead Jews and bringing them back to life. So everything went in the wrong way. And if you sort of vote out, you woke up in the morning with a terrible hangover, you would get better during the day. And then you’d end up with more money in your pocket when you start. And it was really, really weird. But as I was looking at, I always used to think Wouldn’t it be great if we could do a Benjamin Button? So instead of being at school, thinking to ourselves, this is complete waste of time, you actually go the opposite way where you’ve got that adult mentality where you think to yourself, no, there is gold at school, you’ve just got to find it. And that’s the trouble whenever kid you’ve got all those years ahead. Now we started talking just before we press record, and we realise that we’re both 45 years old and we we’ve kind of got that mentality or Oh my god, how much time have we got left? better get going. Do you think that hits everybody a certain time or Do you think that it’s only people that are already doing what they want to do? kind of almost wish they’d started earlier so they can do more of it?
Andrew Winston [37:08]
I don’t know. I mean, I you know, it’s funny, I think you hate to be a stereotype, but everybody seems to go through these similar pathways and mean and I think that middle aged question mark is is very common. I remember my brother in law saying to me when he hit 40 that you know, you know, you’re no longer the wunderkind at that age like you know, all those lists out there you know, 40 hundred 40 and like, you hit 40 and it’s like wow, okay, so I’m no longer the the surprise kid doing something. And you know you I don’t know but it’s funny because you just said you know, should you get started earlier but you also said you know, tell that kid who’s got the briefcase to slow you know, to enjoy himself so it’s a fun it’s hard right? You want you want to you know, say you want to get on your path earlier and get more done but what is more done mean more of what you know, more of life more of a specific career. It’s it’s really hard to set I guess, I guess, you know, we’re all saying you got to work, work hard, do something learn, but also kind of take the time to enjoy it. It’s a tough, it’s a tough balance in life, right? Because then you also, you know, you have your kids and you got to kind of focus on their life and development too. It’s not all about you, which I think is one of the best things about kids, you kind of get out of your own head to some extent, you know, you can’t just focus on your own hedonistic desires or whatever and development or the stress of Am I doing enough in life and just sometimes you just got to like, you know, keep the kids alive, like especially when they’re little you know, you’re on a beach vacation it’s not really a vacation you’re like, Okay, don’t don’t drown don’t drown. Yeah, like it’s really it’s that basic at times. And that is amazingly centering, I think, you know, is like your your bar for what you need to do in the moment. It’s kind of very simplified, but you know, lowered in a way Well, I say
David Ralph [38:53]
a lot to people in a one to one situations when is my wife’s got their friends round and they always Look shocked, but I say look as a parent, if I put my kids to bed at night and they’re still alive, I’ve done my job. And, and that’s it. And if they’ve eaten the wrong things when Fair enough, they’re still alive. If I drank the wrong things I still alive, it’s just get them to bed safe at night. And I think that’s the way that we should operate. And I think it’s the way that we should operate more often, but not in our own lives and in business, kind of, what’s the worst that can happen? You know? Yes, it didn’t go. Yeah, that presentation didn’t go like I wanted it to but Oh, hell, I’m still alive.
Andrew Winston [39:33]
Well, I think and it’s funny you say that because I tell my kids like, you know, as they’re getting older and as they start to get towards teenage that you’re going to want to do stupid things. You’re you’re a kid but that and I say there’s a kind of almost a very binary or simple distinction you’re gonna you’re thinking about doing something is if it goes wrong is the is the downside death. Like, Oh, I should try jumping off that roof and see you know, it or is the downside I’m nervous or I you know, I could twist an ankle or I just embarrass myself. Like, you know, as long as it’s not death, you should be trying stuff in life, you know, but you should be aware when it is, like, let’s see if I can swim out as far as I want out into the ocean. You know, like, that’s dumb. Yeah, but let’s, let’s try something new. Let’s try a new sport. I’ve never tried, let’s, let’s go ask that girl out. I mean, all these things that are terrifying in life. You know, we should be trying. And it’s, and I just want them to be aware. It’s very hard. I mean, kids are kind of our brains don’t develop fully, you know, until we’re in our 20s they say like that, that kind of that decision making part of your brain that risk assessment part of your
David Ralph [40:35]
brain. That’s the women main men just keep on going. Well, we have a look at it. Yeah.
Andrew Winston [40:41]
That’s funny. I guess there’s some truth to that. But I always think that’s part of what makes our species. That’s how we got here. Because if we had been to because what I love about that, that that discovery from science is, you know, you’re 25 and yet that frontal cortex develops is that the lifespan wasn’t that much longer than that, you know, when in early parts of our of our species So that means like, basically our entire lives are spent with some level of risk taking. And other if we hadn’t we you know, you don’t you don’t leave the cave, right? Yeah, we would never have developed, you don’t go attack the Sabre tooth or whatever. Because you’re too nervous and you know and basically die out. So you need this balance of, of risk taking in life, but it’s it’s hard.
David Ralph [41:21]
I think that’s genius. As we’re coding at the moment, Jurassic World Jurassic Park for has just come out. I haven’t seen it. But I do think enough is enough, really, but I’m gonna go and see it anyway. But it is true. When you wake up in the morning and you get out of bed and you go and do things. Nowadays. Everything we do in our life is just scary, isn’t it? It’s not going to eat us. You’re not going to go up on that presentation and the boss is going to suddenly jump up and rip your head off or whatever, you know. Why do you think scariness in your head is so bad and stop so many people wear it? He’s not gonna kill you as a he’s not a dinosaur turn you into an office.
Andrew Winston [42:04]
Now it’s not it’s funny. I don’t know. I mean, it’s, um, I don’t know, we all have it and I see it. I mean, like, again, I do a lot of public speaking. And you see, there’s a pretty big percentage of people who really don’t enjoy it and are really uncomfortable on stage. And they just hate getting in front of people. And I get it in part, but you got to think like, you know, it’s a sick lesson, I always try to teach my kids that most people are in their own heads. They’re mostly worried about themselves. They’re not so much judging you, you know, especially teenagers are so worried about everybody. And I went through this and one of the great joys of becoming, you know, middle aged ish is that I think this for a lot of people happens to get into the 30s 40s. And they think, well, I don’t really care as much what people think. And that’s what that to me is one of the great benefits you see it as people get older. Certainly. I mean, you know, you joke about your parents or grandparents kind of saying whatever the hell they want. And, you know, being ornery, I guess, but like you I think that’s one of the great joys of you know, hitting your stride as an adult. This thing you know, it doesn’t really matter what my neighbours think or what, you know, anybody else thinks? Am I doing what I believe? Am I raising my kids the way I want to? Am I supporting the things I want to support? And, you know, my being a good person is what matters not what am I wearing? Or, you know what what other people judge I mean, that’s easier said than done. But I do think we all get much better at that.
David Ralph [43:20]
But if you read my about page on Join Up Dots, I’ve been like that since I was born. I’ve never usual what anyone thinks about me and
Andrew Winston [43:29]
I’m used to pissed a lot of people off.
David Ralph [43:31]
Yeah. Which is why I don’t have a phone they can’t get. I’ve cut them off. So but No, I’ve never ever cared. And my wife will say to me, that person who said that the other day to you didn’t didn’t know Bobby, you know, I didn’t even think about it. And it just, it just goes across me. I just don’t care in the slightest. It’s, it’s amazing. It’s a good skill if you can, if you can teach it to your kids. But that’s the problem though, isn’t it? You see with the kids when they’re little they’re very much like I am Now, but when they hit, maybe I oh nine, I can see my daughter now, where suddenly, you know, the hair has to be the same because they bought her hair and the clothes have got to be the same and they have to fit in constantly. So
Andrew Winston [44:13]
there’s some very difficult, there’s some basic genetics there, right? Like everyone wants you stick out from the herd too much. You can get taken down, you know, there’s some wanting to fit in, everybody has it? I mean, everybody, the socks have to be pulled up the right way. I mean, we all do it, and we all do it. I mean, I still do it today in a way you get to an event or you get to a meeting and you think How’s everyone basically dressed? You don’t want to stand out too much one way or the other. It’s, you know, it’s hard. It’s hard not to and we spend our lives comparing to others. But again, I think as you get older, you just do it less and less. You’re lucky if you kind of had that. Growing up. You know, I went through severe teenage angst of do I fit in and who were the cool kids and you know, it was probably not my not my favourite time of life and you know, in high school, and not my proudest in a way of you know, worrying so much about the others, you know, and then finally realising when I got to college, while a lot of those kids I was so worried about, really didn’t have their act together, and, you know, we’re so worried about drinking or whatever, that
David Ralph [45:14]
they didn’t, they’re not going anywhere. I’ve got a chap who’s coming on this show, and he’s gonna be sort of end of September time, called Tex Allen. And he was in Starbucks once and he realised that nobody was looking at him. They were just all like, eyes down taking the money and stuff. So it was comic relief, and you get those red noses for comic relief. And so if all right next time I go in there, I’m gonna wear this red nose. And he said it was totally different. But people would go What’s with the nose? You know, why you Wherever I was, and people were sort of actually relating to him. So he started to wear it every day. And now he’s worn it every day for like five years or something and he’s become how he’s broken down those barriers of, we must conform and he’s saying the trouble with conformity is that We don’t actually engage with people you actually have to be different to be noticed somehow.
Andrew Winston [46:06]
Yeah, that’s there’s something there’s some truth to that. I think it’s, um, you got to stick out. But I think, you know, sometimes people the I don’t know, they tried too hard or they stick out in ways that aren’t aren’t really useful in our Well, I think I think you’re seeing that more and more with the level of connectivity we have and how much people can comment, you know, the the kind of blogosphere and the the commentary and the posting of videos, like everybody feels like they have to be more and more extreme. And, unfortunately, I feel like more extreme towards the nasty side, you have to say something really critical. Everyone’s a critic now. You have to be you know, really dismissive really, you know, angry, because that’s what gets attention, right? And that’s what gets on the air. You know, I do a lot of, you know, speaking and writing, I do media appearances, and it’s tough to get on the major media if you don’t want to come on and say something kind of totally counterintuitive or angry or, or, you know, kind of destructive. And it’s a It’s unfortunate, I think I think our media’s not not helpful right now.
David Ralph [47:04]
But isn’t what Oprah has built her entire life about saying the right things in supporting and nurturing, you don’t actually have to be able to call Do you?
Andrew Winston [47:14]
Well, I mean, it’s nice that Oprah’s done it, and there’s a few and there’s, there’s, you know, that I like to see that there is the growth of like upworthy and some of these some of these new kind of media sites to say, let’s tell positive stories. But let’s be honest, that’s not the majority at all right? It’s, um, it’s, you know, the, the, you know, there’s still just this tremendous bias and in the media to, to kind of tell these really ugly kind of stories or to you know, highlight the worst and just, you know, just that whole putting two people on a show and having them battle I mean, I was on a on a fox news show a couple months ago and they had me come in I was, you know, sceptical about going on but they had me, Fox Business Network, come on and debate a guy about renewable energy and subsidies and they To set it up as an as a debate, you know, from the beginning, and I knew what it would be like, but, you know, everything’s got to have two sides. And that’s just not the real world. You know, the, in the real world, there’s issues that we face that have 10, sides 10 legitimate perspectives, there’s issues that really have one side, or one that is the vast majority of what, what we know about the world. It’s not it’s not always, you know, a and b, and then let them battle. And that’s, I think, been an unfortunate part of our dialogue publicly for the you know, in recent years, is everything’s got to have one side and then battling the other and it’s just not, it’s just not normal.
David Ralph [48:36]
It’s just not it’s not real life. What you should do is situations like that. Jump into your polar bear outfit, and just, everyone just walk them out how to hug it out. Yeah, nobody can argue with a hugging polar bear. I would think
Andrew Winston [48:50]
that’s probably true. They probably could not argue with that. They probably would think that you’re crazy and need to need to be put away
David Ralph [48:56]
but you’ll be notice you’ll be noticed. Yeah, as was this guy. created a whole theme of the show back in 2005. And he said many remarkable stuff and some quite critical stuff as well. But you can never dispute the fact that he was totally authentic to himself. This is Steve Jobs.
Andrew Winston [49:14]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [49:50]
So do you buy into those words, Andrew?
Andrew Winston [49:53]
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like I said before, I don’t think I don’t totally You know, I’m not a huge fate guy, and I don’t think it It’s all destined or anything but but it’s more that whatever you’ve done, you do use you do. And I don’t mean that in a, I don’t know, kind of super practical way, but at this just a part of you, whatever you’ve done before. And whatever you’re doing now it draws on that it you can’t help for it to it has to. And so I think, you know, people are so worried about when they’re managing their careers and, and thinking about what is this going to lead to? Exactly. And yeah, you gotta be, you got to be somewhat proactive, right? You got to think about what skills do I want? And what is this job going to do for me, I mean, you have to ask those questions. But you, you know, you’re going to end up using stuff even it seems like a left turn, or something different, you’re gonna you’re gonna use it. And then I think that even applies to things you pick up in your personal life, like I’m gonna learn an instrument or language, it’s like, at some point, that will come in handy. Now, even if, even if it’s just in some way you connect to new people, over you know, everyone playing the trombone or something, you know, it’s just, it’s, you know, it’s a way you kind of navigate the world and connect and connected dots as you said, you know, join up the dots, they do they create the picture of the life that you’re leading now. And I do believe I use everything that I’ve, that I’ve learned and every job I’ve had comes up, you know, in the work I do now.
David Ralph [51:15]
And do you remember a big.in your life when you really started to find your thing and start moving it come together somehow?
Andrew Winston [51:23]
Yeah, I mean, there’s been a few I mean, I, you know, as I, as I said, Before, there was this there was this moment where I had the freedom to step back and say, What do I want to do and read a couple key books man, I always think those are, you know, this is why I do love being a writer is and although I think the the kind of writing world or the world of content is changing dramatically, and it’s much harder. People are inundated with information and they’re not sitting down and reading books quite as much. You know, I had a few books you know, that that really inspired me and and just kind of shared a view of the world view of the role of business in the world and our big challenges you know, inherent mental and social challenges and, and they really shaped my my being and said, Okay, this is what I have to do. And I do think there’s a, there’s some people in life who can read something profound or something that would change their worldview and they just kind of say that’s nice and then forget it. And then there’s people who they read something that kind of can’t, they can’t and, you know, unknown, and they have to kind of go forward with that knowledge. And that’s, that’s more me. And as I read stuff that was credible and logical, about things that were wrong with how the world works, I said, Okay, I got it, I got to be on the side of trying to fix this. You know, so that was kind of the big dot for me. And then and then, you know, cut to, you know, kind of five years later, and I’m six years later, and I’ve got my own book out in the field. And, and I’ve got people, you know, coming up to me over the last nine years, saying, you know, this book helped me figure out where I want to go. It’s almost like you’re, you know, you’re connecting dots with others. And that’s been incredibly rewarding for me, is I meet people all the time. Now that you know, in grad school or undergrad, they read my books or they, you know, saw me Speak. And you never know with this kind of work putting out ideas into the world are you affecting? How much are you affecting things and until someone comes up and says, you know, we had this meeting five years ago, you spoke out and it really changed the company. You know, we kind of really got going after that, then I feel it, you know, and then I kind of get these dots connecting all the time.
David Ralph [53:19]
And isn’t your legacy, your true legacy? what, when, when you’ve come and gone those connections?
Andrew Winston [53:25]
I think so. I mean, look, you know, it’s easy to say my true legacy, or, you know, my own kids, right. I mean, that’s the kind of obvious thing is putting these little us out into the world. And it’s scary how much they are. I mean, we have two boys, and one of them is just mentally, me and the other one is mentally my wife. It’s like watching little versions of yourself. You know, and yet they physically look the opposite. It’s kind of the weird thing. It’s like putting, you know, my brain and in the body of someone in my wife’s family, you know, it’s just kind of like, this amazing genetic mix that we all create. But yeah, I think from a from a work project, For my life’s work and passion, it’s these these ideas, these, you know, I always, I kind of use this, this metaphor in my talks and that, you know, we are facing big challenges these kind of dragons that are out there, you know, extreme changes to the world extreme weather and climate resource constraints is these real pressures and how the world works and, and we all you know, we need companies to kind of step up and be heroes, we need governments to step up, we need everybody’s individuals to, to change and to and to think differently about their role in the world and about their role in their, in their work in particular. And, you know, I would say like, we all need to be heroes and, and my job in the world is to kind of give you a big sword to go, you know, conquer these dragons. You know, if I have a role, it’s to give, you know, these these ideas and frameworks and tools and examples and inspiration for what to do and how to how to change and how to move forward. And so I’m trying to provide this big sword for people to become heroes. And and I think that’s my legacy is continuing to put those ideas out into the world and show Show the company’s doing it help them. And I, you know, when I consult, help the companies do it help them move in a new way. And then and then create more and more stories, more and more examples. So we build a wave of action. Most people do wait a little bit, there’s a few leaders. And then there’s this kind of very, very important first followers, you know, that kind of join in, and then you start to get a movement. And I think that’s where we are, and a lot of these issues on on, you know, climate change, where we’re moving now, globally, painfully, slowly at times. But the world is changing dramatically. And I’m trying to play my little piece of,
David Ralph [55:36]
you know, piece of that. I think you’re playing a big piece of it, and not just a little piece. So I’m ready to you sir. I salute you from this side of the pond. And when I walk out to my car and get eaten by polar bears, as I say, I know, I will turn to but this is the end of the show now. And this is when we’re going to send you on another journey to have a word with your younger self and if you could go back and speak to the young Andrew what advice would you like to give and what age would you choose? Well, we’re gonna find out because I’m gonna play the theme tune and when it paid you up this is the Sermon on the mic.
Andrew Winston [56:31]
Well hello, younger Andrew. Yes, it’s me I know it’s hard to recognise because yeah, I all the grey hair came in and now you have a few Gray’s now you’re 2425 but yes, it is all going to go grey but good news. You did get to keep all your hair so that’s that was kind of the upside. I know you’re having some hard times now. it’s um it’s been a rough couple years in your personal life and some some loss in your life and now you find yourself in between jobs and Not sure what you’re going to do. And I guess I’m here to say it is going to work out there is going to be a path forward. I know you’re hoping that to be the case, but you’re going to you’re going to do a few different things in your in your career and the first job isn’t going to be what you do forever. And the second one isn’t going to be what you do forever. And you’re going to have downtimes and empty times and other points in your life where you’re not sure what you’re going to do next. But it is all going to come together and you’re going to use I think everything you’re learning right now and and even you know the kind of personal traumas and personal, you know, travails that you get through are going to make you stronger. And you’re going to find you know, partners, you know, to go through this with your your good friends and a spouse and kids and all that’s gonna fall into place, but it’s not gonna seem easy every step of the way. So I know I look a little older and hopefully not much heavier, not much more out of shape than you but also take care of your joints. If you can remember, take care of your knees and your shoulders because they start to go. Everything’s gonna start to hurt a little bit more when you exercise and, and work out, but that’s okay too. You’re gonna you’re gonna keep going. And just take time, take time to enjoy the moment, get more in the in the moment, if you can do one thing differently. It’s to start meditating, younger start, start thinking about being in the now a lot more. And don’t worry so much about the future or the past. And good luck.
David Ralph [58:28]
Andrew, how can our audience connect with you?
Andrew Winston [58:32]
lots of ways, and it’s pretty easy. My name is Andrew Winston. And that’s my.com. That’s my website. Andrew Winston calm. And that’s my Twitter handle at Andrew Winston. So follow me on Twitter. I do tweet quite a bit and online I got my blogs and, and my books, links to my books, links to my TED Talk. And this really fun whiteboard animation. That’s like a three minute animation if you go to my site that kind of describes The big pivot and where the world kind of needs to go as I see it. That’s really fun. So I would, I would suggest you check that out and see what you think.
David Ralph [59:08]
We’ll have over links on the show notes. Andrew, thank you so much for spending time with us today, joining up those dots. And please come back again when you have more dots to join up. Because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our paths, it’s the best way to build our futures. Mr. Andrew Winston, thank you so much.
Andrew Winston [59:24]
David Ralph [59:27]
Thanks for listening to today’s episode of Join Up Dots brought to you exclusively by podcasters mastery.com. The only resource that shows you how to create a show, build an income and still have time for the life that you love. Check out podcasters mastery.com. Now,
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