Welcome to the Steve Jobs based Join Up Dots Podcast Interview with Alison Pena
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Introducing Alison Pena
Today’s guest joining us on the Join Up Dots podcast interview is Alison Pena, a lady who ever since she was 15 years old has been fascinated with how money and affluence has so much to do with our view of what’s possible.
In her own words she says “My dad was a 3rd generation Wall Street investment banker. My great-grandfather was one of White Weld & Co’s founders. We lived in an apartment on Park Avenue. The family firm was sold to Merrill Lynch in 1978.
We regularly hosted influential financial and world leaders for dinner parties and social gatherings. I attended a well-heeled private all girls’ school, as you do when you’re part of that world.
But when I was 15, I began regularly leaving my white, wealthy, privileged world… and setting off on what can only be described of as “expeditions.”
Back then, it meant heading north of 96th Street (the northernmost boundary of my known world) into Harlem.
How The Dots Joined Up For Alison
Until that point, my world was Park Avenue and bankers, Latin and piano lessons, nannies and au pairs.
And then I started making friends who showed me a whole other world.
I came from a world where anything was possible, because there was plenty of money. I could have any career. I could go to any school. I could shape my life into whatever I chose.
In contrast, my friends had different expectations. Different obligations. Different ideas about security. Different opportunities.
And a lot of that had to do with money.
This observation got me wondering… Why does money have so much to do with our view of what’s possible?
So I suppose the question is, does money have as much to do with confidence and mindset, or is it just a tool for making ideas happen?
Is it the key to attracting more money into our lives, not because of it directly, but because we can make things happen and go after it?
Well let’s bring onto the show to start joining up dots, as we discuss the words of Steve Jobs with the one and only Alison Pena
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Alison Pena such as:
Why lottery members quite often struggle with dealing with the amount of money that comes into their lives very quickly.
Why it is so important to work out your why, but it is even more important to find out “who you are” before you start your life journey.
Why as a youngster she had the strongest feeling that to take her next life to the next level she needed to truly understand diversity .
How we all struggle with accepting the true value that we an offer to the world, and often need help to achieve our goals.
How To Connect With Alison Pena
You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here – enjoy
Full Transcription Of Alison Pena Interview
David Ralph [0:00]
Do you have a business that can’t get going or would love to create your own one that works whilst you sleep and is built around the things you love? Well, podcasters mastery is the place to go to learn the six simple steps to create a business that flourishes connecting with thousands of customers that tell you what products they want. podcasters mastery is the online route to business success. Check us out now. When we’re young,
we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling and Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK. David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:49]
Yes, hello there everybody across the world who tune in in thousands to Join Up Dots. This is Episode 412. And I’m looking forward to this one, this should have been the third that I brought. Call it today, but the other two kind of just disappeared somehow it didn’t occur. So I’ve been like a coiled spring ready to jump into action. And I’m delighted back today’s lady is going to jump into action with me because she says she likes to go by the seat of our pants. And that’s what we’re going to do today. We literally don’t know where we’re going to go because she’s got a fascinating tale, or that really links up back to sort of a 15 year old version to do with how much money in affluence has so much to do with our view of what’s possible. Now, in her own words, she says My dad was a third generation Wall Street investment banker and my great grandfather was one of white welding co founders we lived in an apartment on Park Avenue get her and the family firm was sold to Merrill Lynch in 1978. We regularly hosted influential financial and wealth leaders for dinner parties and social gatherings. I attended a well heeled private all girls school, as you do and you’re part of that world. But when I was 15, I began regularly leaving my wife wealthy privilege world and setting off on what can only be described as expeditions. Yes, back then they meant heading north of 96th Street, the northernmost boundary of my known world into Harlem. Until that point, my world was Park Avenue in bankers and Latin and piano lessons, nannies, and au pairs. And when I started making friends who showed me a whole other world, I came from a world where anything was possible because there was plenty of money, I could have had any Korea, I could have gone to any school, I could shape my life into whatever I chose. Now, in contrast, friends had different expectations, different obligations, different ideas about security, different opportunities, and a lot had to do with the money. Now this observation got her wondering why does money have so much to do with our view of what’s possible? So as opposed to question is, does money have as much to do with competence and mindset? Or is it just a tool for making ideas happen? Is it a key to attracting more money into our lives, not just Because of me directly, but because we can make things happen and go after it. Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Alison Pena, how are you, Alison?
Alison Pena [3:12]
I am Wonderful. Thank you so much.
David Ralph [3:14]
It’s great to have you on the show because these this is one actually I’ve been looking forward to because I’ve been on a bit of journey, this shows about you. But hey, I’m going to talk about myself straight off the bat here. But I’ve been on a bit of a entrepreneurial journey. And there has been several points in the journey for about the last two years, where I knew that I had a mental block but my knowledge, I couldn’t justify the value I was charging for it but people or my money experience led me to a world of scarcity. So when I read that, and I connected with you to get you on the show, it really hit home with me but yes, we’re holding ourselves back. There is so much money out in the world. So many people have nothing but very few have Not, so why can’t we take some of the lot and share it around a bit? Is that kind of a simplistic view? Or is am I right moment, your message now?
Alison Pena [4:10]
Yeah, um, it was interesting. And actually, in the last, I guess two or three weeks, I’ve come to sort of a new revelation when I was growing up, I was like, my world was so narrow in its own way that I kept thinking there had to be something more. And so I was a little unhappy. I mean, I had plenty and I was still a little unhappy. And then the people that I met who were not from my world, they hated me because they made assumptions about what my world and my life was like. That were not true. And
David Ralph [4:47]
didn’t really bother you. Deep down. Did that bother you? those assumptions?
Alison Pena [4:50]
It really bothered me deep down. Yes. And you were speaking about money blocks. So my money blocks that I’ve keep going through in my own business is that my experience of having money is of being hated as a child. So that’s the visceral piece that I held. So when I when I make a lot of money, and I have the capacity to do that, very quickly, I bump up against that experience. And then then I have to go through it.
David Ralph [5:27]
It’s so fascinating is that no matter how much in life you’re rocking and rolling, you still have these, these blockages, don’t you? And it’s like an obstacle course that we weave through and from the outside looking at your life, I was thinking, this is amazing, you know, Park Avenue bankers, Latin Latin lessons, that sounds a bit boring, actually. But all the rest of it, I was thinking this is great. But you’re sort of holding on to that that childhood as a negative Well, I would have looked at it as a positive
Alison Pena [5:59]
well, and and There was both. So there was both, if you look at, so affluence for me is about the money and not about the money. Because affluence is not the same for everybody. I mean, if you ask someone how much they want to make in their business, for example, they’ll say, you know, 100,000 this year or a million, that’s what I hear a lot. But in fact, people don’t think about what that means or about if they really want that. And what we want is, what does that get us? So if we make a million in a year, how much time Can we spend with our families? Where can we travel to? And so, affluence then it’s not just about the money. It’s about what are the experiences and how rich is our life? Can we afford to go and take a three hour walk in the woods if we want to in the middle of a workday,
David Ralph [7:01]
Do you know i it takes me back to that Tim Ferriss four hour workweek book. And it was I don’t know, if you’ve read that most of us have read it in one time of our life. And it was a bit in it. I always remember being struck by it. And he was saying, if you ask people what they want in life, it is more often than not, it’s money. They want to be a millionaire, they want to live like a millionaire. And he said, he realised, but it wasn’t the being a millionaire. It was living like a millionaire. So if you’ve got the time, freedom to go whenever you want, for example, school holidays over here, it’s really expensive to take your kids out in school holidays because the air flights go up and the accommodations go up and all that kind of stuff. But if you can do it sort of just whenever you want, you get a hell of a lot of bargains, and he realised but that was the key thing. It was being able to stretch your life so that you could live like a millionaire but not necessarily had the money to back it up. You could get the bargains because you’ve got time, flex ability to do what you want?
Alison Pena [8:03]
Yes. Yeah, exactly. And and it’s the thing that’s kind of a myth and a lie about about the money is that we think that it’s all outside of ourselves, that external circumstances have a huge amount to do with whether we have money or we don’t have money. But if you take a look at lottery winners, lottery winners win the money and they win millions and millions of dollars, I mean, you would think they’d be set for life. But very often, they wind up more destitute after the money after they win the lottery than before they want it. Because what happens is that they they never built up their internal real estate, their sense of you were talking about value, their sense of their own value, and their bank account goes to their internal value, and this is what happens Then if you look at Oprah Winfrey, she started with nothing. And she’s a multi millionaire.
David Ralph [9:07]
Russia billionaire now. I think she’s, she’s, she’s worth a few dollars, we could say, but yeah, I think I think there’s a lot of truth to that, isn’t it because on this journey, I speak to people who are either at the top of their game, or people that are halfway along, or people just getting going. And you see, I would say, on the timeline, it’s the third quarter where people really start to rock it. So the very first bit, they’re, they’re trying and they’re trying to move forward, and they’re trying to break down the barriers that have held them back to gain their first level of success. Then in the middle, they’re trying to consolidate that success. But when they get to that third quarter, where suddenly all that personal belief that hey, I’ve done this before, I can do this again, I can do this bigger. I could connect with these people. Suddenly They shoot ahead and they really sort of rock and roll and they’re earning lots of money and seemingly loving their life at the same time. Did you see that with yourself? Do you see that with all the people that you surround yourself is that third quarter of kind of success that comes with the belief that really shoots you forward?
Alison Pena [10:19]
Yeah. Because Because affluence by my definition includes money, but it also includes health and relationships and time, and how your business or career is going all of it. And it’s really connected. So affluence and influence are really integrally connected and what happens when we are starting out? So I’m going to speak for a moment to the beginning phase of being an entrepreneur is that we are making choices on what we can spend the money on, you know, because business takes capital, yeah, some amount of capital. Not as much as it used to, but it does. And so very often what we’re doing is we’re actually contracting our life. So in the beginning of our business, we don’t have the business or the lifestyle we wanted. Right?
David Ralph [11:17]
You Well, yeah, absolutely. But that’s the right way about it, isn’t it? Because you kind of learn it. It’s the nuts and bolts, you wouldn’t want to miss that stage and go straight to the second stage I would have.
Alison Pena [11:27]
Absolutely not. But you also can’t afford to give up everything that you decided to become an entrepreneur for. So what I encourage people to do is even in that stage to do things that cost, you know, no money or little money, but that give them that feeling of affluence. So for example, if you’re an entrepreneur, you can go for a walk in the woods, in the middle of the day, because you can work at another time you can work into the evening. It’s your choice. And having that experience of affluence actually living the life that you chose to live when you became an entrepreneur is really, really important throughout the lifecycle of a business.
David Ralph [12:14]
Well, I’m gonna throw in an opposing view to this. Allison, I believe I go exactly with what you’re saying. I am now doing a job that I love. And I adore every aspect of it. So when I’m not working, I’m wanting to work. It’s like play for me. It’s like fun time. And so yeah, walking in the woods in the middle of the afternoon would be great. But I kind of love this more. Is that a bad thing?
Alison Pena [12:42]
Absolutely not. Because in this instance, there’s a congruence of your business and your lifestyle. So it’s not it’s not misaligned. You’re not doing things that you do. Don’t love it’s it’s become all all one. And and basically, one of the things that I talk about is that affluence starts with us. And for you affluence is just talking to people and, and doing the podcasts and being in your business because he loved it so much. And that’s affluence, too. There’s no one definition. That’s the point. So if we were told there is
David Ralph [13:27]
so for the listeners out there just to summarise this, if they’re sitting in a crappy job doing something that they hate thinking, Oh, God, I wish I was doing this. I wish I was doing that. And I think most of us at that point, we think about the the freedom that we’re going to have and the fact that we won’t have to look at our boss’s face anymore, and all that kind of stuff. When they actually are moving towards that, should they sit there and really plan out, I suppose what they call their Why should they really know to the bottom level of what they are Aiming for and if it’s just an escape route, then they’re doing it the wrong way.
Alison Pena [14:06]
Um, what they should figure out. So they should figure out their their y. But first they should figure out their who. Because and and here this flies in the face of Simon Sinek and everyone. So the Why is important but the who is also important because until we know who we are, and what we really want when we’re crystal clear on who we are and what we want. So for example, if you’re a really gregarious person, you’re not going to want a business that’s behind a computer screen. Yeah. And so knowing yourself as you design the business means that you design a business that’s sustainable,
David Ralph [14:52]
because isn’t it that’s very hard right at the very beginning, if you will, leaping into the entrepreneurial route, you kind of go I just need To pay the bills or do anything, I just don’t want to be doing this and you sort of like set your stall down incorrectly right at the beginning, then that’s a very brave decision what you’re saying to go, Yeah, I love talking to people. I love doing this. I love doing that. I’m going to tailor my life around that.
Alison Pena [15:16]
Yeah, the thing is that, that we have all this rich knowledge of ourselves through our entire lives. So we can actually data mine from every single job, every single thing that we’ve ever done, what we love and what we don’t love. And as we make those distinctions and get clearer and clearer about what those things we like and things we don’t like, are then we are we, we are potentially building a business for ourselves, seeing the business that could be because when we look into our history, we can see what we can leverage. We can see our gifts And those can be built into a business. If a person in any job in any career has served in any way has any gifts that they’ve seen come forth over and over and over again. That’s a business.
David Ralph [16:17]
Well, I agree with that totally. And our strap line, but a whole show is Join Up Dots connecting our past is the best way to build our futures and looking back and finding those clues, those moments that we lost ours because we just loved doing it. But it is it’s a huge mindset, isn’t it? It’s a huge mindset to go. Yeah, I know what I love doing. I know what I am good at as well. I can actually build a business around that. Now. I know from my side of the fence. Now it is possible to build a business around anything. And some of the mantis discussions I’ve had. I can see that a person’s earning huge amount of money loving every minute of it, and I still think how how have you done this? How have you managed to build a business around teaching poodles to jockey or something, you know, absolutely bizarre stuff. But you can make a living at it. But of course, we’re talking about generations of programming, where people have gone, you got to get a job. You’ve got to grow up. It’s not about play when you get into the adult world. It’s about being serious and all that kind of stuff. It’s very hard to break down, isn’t it?
Alison Pena [17:25]
Well, actually, I’ve come come up with a way to navigate that much, much more easily. So once we know who we are, then we can design the business that we want to have. But how do you figure out who you are without going through all that process? Right? So in my work, I work with this affluence wheel. And what I’ve discovered is that there were three lenses or kinds of perspectives that people look through and we all have all of them and one is primary. So the first one and this is the one that’s most understood this is the one that you’re talking about is purpose. So people who have purpose as a primary lens, they they thrive when their work is going well. When their work is going well, they just love it and everything works. Those people if they lose a job or the economy falls apart, they don’t do well. They tend to see love as a distraction and they thrive in structure and goal setting and targets. And this is the only paradigm that really gets money as its own objective. So a purpose person can say okay, I want to make $100,000 by the end of the year, and they get that. Second is love, love. People are all about their one on one connections. They tend to deliver really rich customer experiences. They tend to put themselves last They struggle to make money because money as itself doesn’t make sense. They can make lots of money if they translate the money into experiences. time with family, hundred thousand dollars means this. Once it’s translated, they can make plenty of money. And the third is charity, charity, people are all about community. So they see the world as an ecosystem. And they are the ones who are most about influence connecting people up. And they money doesn’t make sense as money to them either. It only makes sense as overflow. So people whose primary lens is charity are about serving.
David Ralph [19:53]
Well, when you were talking, I couldn’t decide which one was my primary. The first one you spoke about. I thought, yeah, that’s me. Then the second one, I thought, Oh no, that’s that one’s may have been the third one. I thought now that’s me as well. Is that normal? Can you have an equal balance on those?
Alison Pena [20:08]
It’s absolutely normal. We tend to have two primary. So the distinction that I make between people whose primary is love and people whose primary is charity is love people. When something happens in the world that’s horrific, like an earthquake or anything, their hearts hurt. And charity people they see it more like something horrible happened, but then the world opened up and care packages flooded into that area or people flew to help or whatever, so they see it more as a more holistic view. So you’re all of them. I would say given what you said at the beginning, you’re probably purpose first. And I don’t know enough about you to know about the second two But where we we have all of them absolutely and there there are sometimes two that go together but very seldom three.
David Ralph [21:09]
Okay, well you’re you’re you’re good you are you actually held back? Even if I don’t know anything about anyone I’d still make an opinion awkward. That’s that’s a difference between you and me, Allison. So if we take you back in time because I am fascinated why you’re in the sort of the Uptown Girl territory of New York in that so hark back to the Billy Joel song. And you start going on these expeditions. Do you remember the first one and Do you remember being scared going out of your comfort zone and thinking this is a bad thing? Why the hell am I doing it?
Alison Pena [21:45]
Well, I’m tutoring has been a big part of my life since I was a child so I have tutored in Harlem and and for the last 15 years. tutor in East Harlem. And so I used to go up to 120 Fifth Street when I was in high school, and tutor and it was sort of a missing piece because I always knew that the world that I was in was didn’t have enough diversity to be interesting. And by diversity, I don’t, I mean, different kinds of people, different backgrounds. So I went up there and it was so different, that I had a sense of both fear and wonder,
David Ralph [22:40]
did you realise that you were going in because I’ve been in New York a lot. I’ve been over there and certainly before I went there, people said to me, ah, you know, Harlem that’s that’s all sort of a really dodgy place to go. And I went to Harlem. I don’t think it was anything worse than London. To be honest. It was it was a lie. I just walked around there quite happily. Eventually. No, you shouldn’t go to sort of Brooklyn, you shouldn’t go to here and bear. Is it different times now, at that time when you were walking through there was it a place that a young lady shouldn’t have been going?
Alison Pena [23:10]
It was much more dangerous. When I was growing up, we really I lived on 95th Street, you didn’t go beyond 96th Street. If you were from my background, it was assumed to be very dangerous. And when I was a teenager, I made friends. And I remember specifically, I went to a party of a friend of mine. And
there were 10 white people there.
And I’d never been a minority and the party was 300 people. And it was shocking to be
Unknown Speaker [23:54]
David Ralph [23:56]
But wouldn’t you always a minority being a being a rich girl, that’s minority, isn’t it?
Alison Pena [24:02]
Well, it is, except that everyone I knew was the same as me. So I lived in this fishbowl, which was, and we all do this, right? We all live in our own particular fishbowl. It’s just a question what it is. And once we can see, see, the thing that’s so powerful is once we can see the distinctions and the differences, we can do anything, anything becomes possible.
David Ralph [24:29]
But keeping to me, I can’t quite grasp what made you do this. What made you go off into these areas? Was it something but peer pressure? Was it something that you just felt like you had to do? Were you sort of rebelling against your environment somehow, you know, did you tell your mom and dad that you were going to go off there or did you do it secretly? What made you do it?
Alison Pena [24:55]
Practically my school had community service requirement. So So it was not half so altruistic as it sounds initially. And then I discovered that I really, I really love knowing about people and learning about people and I love
Unknown Speaker [25:18]
Alison Pena [25:20]
And I’m a bit
I really, injustice makes me completely crazy. I mean, part of the reason I’m allows the employee is that I love to work, I really do. But when I’m in a company for a period of time, I see all the places where people are not being empowered. And it It hurts me. And I want to change and because of the work that I do and the kind of person that I am, I really can see places where small tweaks would would would change everything and not being allowed to allowed to make them tweeks makes me completely crazy. And I’ve sort of been like that since I was a child. So when I was think I was eight or 10, or something, my family and I were going to Europe, and we were standing on this long, long line, and there was this woman at the front of the line, and she was talking. And the person talking to her obviously couldn’t understand the word she was saying. And so the whole line started muttering. And I got so angry, because I thought this woman’s impression of America is going to be these beastly people being nasty to her. So I marched up to the front of the line, my family followed behind me because I was just like that. And I took the piece of paper and I took this woman to her gate.
And she kissed me on both cheeks and left. I never saw her again.
But the injustice and the
the injustice of it just bit at me so much that I had to do something. And that’s sort of how I got into it I, I have to make things possible. And this area of affluence and money and people seeing or not seeing possibilities, I really wanted to blow that wide open for people.
David Ralph [27:19]
But let’s play some words that’s gonna lead us seamlessly to the next stage of our conversation. And these are words that we play almost every shows, I’m gonna do it again. But this is Jim Carrey,
Jim Carrey [27:29]
my father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.
David Ralph [27:56]
So you have taken a chance, but you’ve taken a chance in a kind of rarefied environment and try to blow it up and then reconstruct it again. So is it something that has found you what you’re doing now and sort of explain to the listeners, I don’t think we’ve covered it enough what you actually do on a day to day basis, but is it something that’s naturally found you or have you gone and actually built it?
Alison Pena [28:18]
And so what I do is I do business consulting in the area backbones specifically, and I work with people one on one, or I and I work with groups. And what I do is I first start with who the person is and what they want. So what we do is we identify what are the gaps, so here’s the life, the business and the lifestyle that I have. And here’s the one that I want. And these are the gaps between the two. Because until we know where we’re going, we have no idea. We have no way to get there. So then what we do is we start in closing the gaps we start from who we are, so There’s all these possibilities out there millions and millions and millions of possibilities and and trillions of dollars and and other currencies in the world.
The question is, which are ours?
And so then the second thing that I do is I help people true down on out of all the possibilities, that when we open up to what’s out there, we can see which ones are ours. Because in that phase where we’re like, oh, we have to make money, I’m going to take anything. Very often we look at there is a big sector of the population that wants what I have.
But if they’re not ours, it’s not gonna work.
And so, what I do is I expand possibilities. I teach people, even in the face of being knocked down and Having a setback to expand rather than contract I help them up level their internal value so their bank account can go up with it. These are the kind of things I do
David Ralph [30:15]
and so when you say they have to expand and not contract Are you talking about financially or physically sort of mindset How are you expanding somebody if I’ve just been knocked down?
Unknown Speaker [30:31]
Yeah so um
Alison Pena [30:34]
what happens? For some reason we are given I’ll give an example of values. So let’s say we make I make 10 sales calls and five are interested and four are later and one says no, that one that says no knocks me down harder. than all the rest, which are yeses or potential yeses.
expand and keep going, I can give weight to what I choose. So it’s the wolf you feed they say.
David Ralph [31:22]
And so what you’re saying on that just just to clear it up, because I got a little bit confused there.
Unknown Speaker [31:26]
So sorry. So you get knocked
David Ralph [31:28]
down, you look at it as a failure, you can either focus in on that failure and say, I’m a complete screw up and not do anything. Or you can look at it and go, No, okay, I’ll take the learnings from that. I’m not gonna spend any more time and energy on that area about perceived failure. And I’m going to move forward. I’m only gonna focus my energies on things that will take me to the next level and not hold me back. Is that what you’re saying?
Alison Pena [31:52]
Yeah, the thing that’s astonishing to me even in myself is that we if if you’ve been in business for any length of time or served anyone in any way? There are people who have said things about you or written things about you, testimonials or things like that. That if you read them, you’re like, holy cow. That’s amazing. But we believe our own self doubt in our own fears more than we believe what the people we serve are saying about that. And that’s truly crazy.
David Ralph [32:26]
And do you get that a lot? You do have that problem when people say nice things about you kind of nice saying,
Alison Pena [32:34]
well, it’s what I do is easy for me. And it creates this vast transformation for the people I serve. And because it’s easy for me, I don’t value it the way that the people who are are having their lives change, value it.
David Ralph [32:54]
So how do you charge for it pan out? You know, because this is the million dollar question, isn’t it? You find it really easy. Do you get value for it? And because you kind of find it easy, how do you go? This is how much it’s gonna cost?
Alison Pena [33:08]
Well, in truth,
what I’ve had to do is is, you know, we teach what we need to learn. Always that’s very typically what happens. And so what I’ve had to do myself is I’ve had to increase my own sense of my internal value going up. And so sometimes that’s in $200, increments, $500, increments, whatever, whatever I can do. So I do my own work to increase my sense of the pricing and the value and and frankly, I read over my testimonials. And I look at Okay, if I got that result, what would that be worth?
David Ralph [33:55]
Because he’s fascinating. I’ve got a podcasting. You might have heard advertised at the beginning called podcasters mastery. And it’s a training course, which is literally one that you will buy once and it will grow with you for your entire life. And $897 for a lifetime. And I thought to myself when I put that figure out, oh, it might be a bit marks might be a bit much. And literally to a man and a woman, the ones who hadn’t bought it but are ahead of the curve. They’re the ones that are doing stuff that you’re aiming for upset to me, that’s too cheap, you should have gone double that you should have gone treble that and the people that have actually bought it. I’ve now said to me, now a minute, I would have paid twice for that as well. And it’s funny how we don’t value your own knowledge. But what you’re actually giving to these people is a fast track to success. You’ve built up that knowledge over 345 years, and you’re passing it up into a box that you can hand it over to them and they will save themselves five years of struggle. Now when you say Why you think, Wow, that is an investment and a half, that’s got to be, you know, a lot more money than that. But when you put that finger on something that you’ve created or your knowledge, it’s very difficult, isn’t it to think of it in that terms? are you providing a value for the product? Or are you providing a value for the knowledge increase that that person is going to get?
Alison Pena [35:19]
Yeah, exactly. Because that knowledge has has a value and and when you’re, you know, what you’ve learned through blood, sweat and tears. If they can get to where you’ve gotten in a year instead of five years, that’s thousands and thousands of dollars.
David Ralph [35:39]
So where do you go then where where do you go but your knowledge is valuable. I know you say that you go up in sort of increments. But how do you choose your first starting point when when you was creating your your business, how did you go this is what I’m gonna do and not sell yourself cheap.
Alison Pena [35:57]
Well, I mean truthfully to just Playing gain my confidence I did a free half hour calls. And and I found in a half hour that the people were walking out of the call with both insights on who they were and actionable steps to move themselves forward in 30 minutes. And so from those calls, I got testimonials. So I was building my confidence building my sense of my own internal value and started taking on clients and initially the clients. It was cheap
David Ralph [36:36]
to work with me, you know, three years ago, um, and it’s less so now, because I know what I give people. I should have been cheaper if I wished you back now, would it still be cheap or would you go Nah, Blimey, I’ve learned something here.
Alison Pena [36:58]
My skills have so grown and I can get people where they want to go so much faster than ever before that my knowledge has has a pretty significant value at this point. I mean, I’m not out of the park but
David Ralph [37:11]
but but if you went back in time and you were starting the business again, would you still go with the price that you charge now? Or would you still think, Oh, I’m gonna go free or I’m gonna go cheap to try to work it up. Well, what is a good route for a listener out there? set their figure and get people to decide whether it’s valuable or not, or go the route that you went and do free and sort of building up little by little?
Alison Pena [37:36]
Yeah, I would say that there’s a real learning curve in getting clients. So to some degree when you when you price out your products, there are people who will buy a, I don’t know a $97 product that won’t buy a $597 product for that thousand dollar product or whatever. As you get clients, you learn about which ones are yours. And yours will occur at different price points. And part of it depends on who you want to serve. Who’s, who’s your Who’s your person, because your person will pay more or less. So if it’s a person who has a lot of money, for example, and it’s a low price point, they’re gonna say, Oh, that’s the value of the offer.
David Ralph [38:33]
But you don’t know what their bank account is, do you? So you set the store now on your own money, don’t you look at it and go all that’d be a lot for me. They won’t pay you back. It’s very difficult for you to go, oh, they’ve got a lot of money because you don’t know that for a start. And they’re going to pay there. You see it time and time again. I’ve had conversations probably 100 times now doing this show, where people say to me their first offer. Somebody comes along and says, will you teach me to do that and They think, Oh, I’m not really sure about this. I’m a bit scared. I’m going to quote them $2,000 just so that I go away, and they quote $2,000 and the person goes yes straightaway and they think, Oh, God, I should have gone five grand because you just don’t know what they’ve got.
Alison Pena [39:16]
Yeah, and and it’s
what happens is that we make assumptions because the fact of the matter is, if you’re really hungry for something, and you see that, that that person can give you exactly what you need to shortcut you. That’s an investment. And the level of of hunger and the capacity to see okay, well, I can pull this together to get this done will depend on on whether or not the person works with you.
if you go out to Silicon Valley, you can see people in ripped t shirts and jeans. They’re multimillionaires. So you can’t tell who a person is or what they care about. But the price will bring in different kinds of people. Typically, this is my experience. And the question is, are they yours, because if they aren’t yours, then maybe the prices go up and you get more of your people.
David Ralph [40:22]
I had a product through Join Up Dots for a while called the elite coaching. And it was a kind of test, really, and somebody said to me, what you should do, you should do a coaching course, I’m doing your skills, blah, blah, blah, and it was sort of different areas to it, and put the highest figure you can to try to get high end customers to come to you. And more often than not, instead of having 100 people, you could have five people and make the same money. And I thought at that time, I was battling these mindsets of, oh my god is my knowledge worthy and all that kind of stuff. And so I did it and I I created this course. And it was a basic web page, and I threw it up, and I wasn’t expecting anybody to come. And literally, within about a day and a half, I had six clients. And I earn as much in those, those six clients as I did a year beforehand. And it was just astonishing for me. Now, it wasn’t part of my Who am I why I was working on a different path, but it was part of my path because it was an experiment. So I fulfilled the requirements of the coaching course. And then I took it down. Now other people have said to me, I should do it again. You should do it again. I’m not doing the future because I now know it’s possible, but it didn’t blow my mind. But you can literally have four or five clients and make as much money out of them when you used to do working in a job for a year. Absolute mindset shift.
Alison Pena [41:52]
Yeah, yeah. And and these are, whenever we do something different and and it’s anything it’s put up a new course. It’s Change prices, it’s anything. What we’re doing is we’re gathering data. And the data is, what amount of money am I willing to allow into my bank account? So that’s the first thing because if you can only allow a certain amount from a single person or for a single programme, that’s going to be your upper limit.
That’s how much you’re going to allow in.
David Ralph [42:28]
Why Why would you only allow a certain amount coming in surely people would go, it’s an open bank account, fill it up.
Alison Pena [42:36]
Well, it’s really interesting that I see this over and over and over again. What happens is that we have a comfort level in the bank account, which is maybe it’s I can pay the bills and as long as I have an extra thousand dollars or an extra $10,000, or an extra hundred thousand dollars, in Then unpeaceful, right. And then what happens is if it goes over that amount, whatever that comfort level amount is, something will happen, an emergency will happen or some opportunity will come along that you just have to go for. And it will go back down to that comfort level amount. I see it over and over again. It’s It’s unbelievable to me. But so then until we can increase the amount that we’re willing to receive into our bank account, our bank account will keep having this happen to us.
David Ralph [43:37]
I find that strange I do because I kind of think just open the bank account, just throw it in. But of course, when you are going the opposite side and you’re constructing your value, we’re not doing that. I think we’re coming full circle again. Once again, we say this is the fake out. Will you pay for that? And then they go Yes, straight away anything Oh my God, I should have been more so UU All right, but it seems strange, doesn’t it?
Alison Pena [44:03]
It’s really strange. I find it really strange, but but it’s also true.
David Ralph [44:10]
And strange things normally are true, are they?
Unknown Speaker [44:14]
Yeah, they are. So really,
David Ralph [44:16]
someone want to do the whole conversation, I was going to spend more time talking about your own personal journey, but I found this fascinating. So I’ve changed direction totally on this show. But I do want to sort of come back to the theme of the whole show, which is the subject of joining up your dots. And this is a speech of Steve Jobs made back in 2005. And then we’re gonna briefly talk about it. This is Steve Jobs.
Steve Jobs [44:38]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college, but it was very, very clear looking backwards. 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut destiny Life karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [45:14]
Now, you obviously did follow the path, your own path, you went into environments that maybe your parents weren’t happy with at that time. When you look at those words, and you listen to those words, are they true to your life? Are they true to all of our lives as Steve Jobs touched into something that is really going to stay with us forever?
Alison Pena [45:37]
Oh, I think so. I really think so.
in my looking backward, I just never sort of fit in. And so I really tried to fit in, I tried to take jobs and work in companies and do The normal things take a safe secure job, although I don’t think there is such a thing. And it never worked. And so looking backwards, I just kept going along and and heading in the direction where I was destined to come to. And and my sort of breaking point was when I was about to turn 50. And I looked at my life, I was working as a medical editor in an advertising firm. And I asked myself if I was was doing what I was here to do. And the answer was a resounding no. And that was really sad. That was really sad for me. And so then I set out to build a business around what I’m here to do. And that’s to To change the world in this area of affluence, so that people can truly see the possibilities that they have, and they can choose to take them or not.
David Ralph [47:09]
And do you see as a movement, do you see that more and more people are trying to get this out to the world? Because I know what I mean is environment so it feels like everyone’s doing it. But on the widest sense, do you think that we are going to be able to get the abundance get the possibilities get the the opportunities going in people’s minds?
Alison Pena [47:31]
We live in magical times. So we live in times where the Internet has given us given anyone the capacity to build a business if they choose, because you can reach out and it’s not expensive to reach out and have a community and and if you have a community of 100,000 people who care about what you care about, you can have a business so I don’t think everyone is doing it. I think there are more and more people whose comfort level is turning towards being entrepreneurs and building their own businesses. And frankly, even people in jobs. If they don’t have a sideline business, they’re leaving money on the table in taxes.
David Ralph [48:20]
Yeah, absolutely. So do you find it? Sorry, but do you find it weird when you look back on all your path, even though you think that being in that medical job wasn’t connected? Ultimately they are, it is part of joining up dots to where you are, you can’t get from one to the other. And even if you’re in a position that you just think, Oh, this is terrible. I never wanted to work here. But there’s something in it that helps you go to the next part.
Alison Pena [48:48]
Yeah, I mean, the thing that the thing that’s interesting is that I I basically started data mining from my past and the thing I loved about that job at the beginning was that it was was an invented job. It was a job that had never existed before. So I had the power inside a company to innovate. And then what changed that job for me was that I got a manager who no longer valued anything I offered in my service. And I had, you know, accolades from the end client, like you wouldn’t believe. But then suddenly, all that I knew, and all that I was was not valuable anymore. And then I was miserable. But data mining, from all of my history, is how I connected up the dots. I was like, Oh, yeah, I was good at that I served there. This is where I felt best. And I started collecting all those little experiences together, and then figured out
what I was meant to be doing.
David Ralph [49:52]
And is easy for our listeners to do but isn’t it? It’s very difficult in one way, but if they put enough time and effort in and really Look back on every part of their, their journey, the job that they’re doing and go, right. I hated doing that, but actually kind of quite like doing that and drilled down, you can find the clues, and you can end up with almost a blueprint. But it takes a while to sort of formalise it into something. But it is out there, isn’t it?
Alison Pena [50:21]
It’s absolutely out there. And connecting up the dots is the fastest and easiest way to do it. Because you’re not looking out at something you don’t know you’re looking at your own life, and your own experiences and the things where you go, Oh, that was fun. That was great. Those are the things to just latch on to because there’s the business and there’s the passion.
David Ralph [50:44]
Yeah. Well, this is the end of the show now. And this is the part that will gonna send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the young Alison, what age would you choose and what advice would you give? Well, we’re going to find out because I’m going to play the female And when it fades you up, this is the Sermon on the mic
Unknown Speaker [51:12]
with the best bit of the show.
Alison Pena [51:28]
Hello, little Alison, this is big Allison. And you’re about 10.
you don’t. What I would say is to trust yourself
to know that
who you are is
exactly who you should be. And that if you think you don’t fit in, it’s because there’s something that you’re here to do. Do that maybe doesn’t, is a little ahead of the curve. So maybe you’re a little bit ahead of the curve. And I know it’s painful to be young and to not be like everybody else because there’s comfort in camouflage, right? But there’s also something amazing in really allowing yourself to be. And so I guess what I would advise is to find people and put people around you who allow that and accept that and appreciate that
and to not falter
and to have people who will encourage you to have a build a community around you, who will encourage you and to speak your wisdom. You know that that time when you were six when someone you know your friends father’s friend at a cocktail party said How did you get so wise? I would say allow yourself to be wise because you are. Allow yourself to be who you are. And if you need to, to pretend to, to fit in and to be more comfortable, hold that core of yourself, that truth of yourself. And just keep expressing it. Keep exercising that muscle in whatever way you can. Because that is the thread of your life and that is the joy of your life.
Unknown Speaker [53:46]
Alison Pena [53:49]
experience of needing to be camouflage that will pass. I promise. It may take a little while but that will pass. So have courage and be brave rave, and learn and grow and experience and really do stuff, have adventures. You love adventures from the age of 10. Through all of your life you love adventures. And in the adventures you can learn so much about who you are and who you serve and what you’re here to do. So I guess that would be my advice. If you need to camouflage yourself sometimes do it. But stay true to the core of who you are. And keep exercising and experiencing your gifts and keep growing and keep noticing what’s true. And keep seeing in people because this is your greatest gift. You see who people are really at their core really at their base beyond their smokescreens beyond any fears or doubts. You see who they are and you can tell them who they are in a way that they can get it and then they can grow. And that throughout your life will be your biggest choice and your biggest gift and your biggest fear of being found out. But I’ll tell you, it’s worth going through the fear. It’s worth living into that expression of service. So that would be my advice to my younger self.
David Ralph [55:28]
Allison, how can our audience connect with you?
Alison Pena [55:32]
So the best way to connect with me is at my website, which is the affluence code.com. On Facebook, I’m unlocking the affluence code. So those are the two places I have other other channels as well, which are going to be on your website, I believe.
David Ralph [55:51]
Yeah. We’ll link them all to the show notes. Alison, thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots and please come back again when you have more time. To join up because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Alison Pena Thank you so much.
Alison Pena [56:09]
Thank you so much, David.
David Ralph [56:12]
Thanks for listening to today’s episode of Join Up Dots brought to you exclusively by podcasters mastery.com. The only resource that shows you how to create a show, build an income and still have time for the life that you love. Check out podcasters mastery.com.
Now, David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you or wants to become. So he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life, head over to Join Up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on Join Up Dots.