Welcome to the Join Up Dots Podcast with Taylor Pearson
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Introducing Taylor Pearson
Today’s guest is a man who when you start researching him you can’t get a firm steer on what the man is all about.
He has chosen many different paths in his life, and tried many different things that for whatever reason turned out to be the wrong ones.
At the moment as he says in his own words ” I primarily write and consult with authors, entrepreneurs and CEO’s about how to find clarity and confidence in their businesses, expand their marketing through thought leadership and scale their internal business systems.”
Well that sounds very professional doesn’t it.
But let’s tell you that this guy first wanted to be a Lawyer and changed his mind, to become a freelance Spanish Interpreter, then an English teacher in Brazil, before playing semi-pro football.
And then he built a profitable business selling advertising to kitchen furniture manufactures.
And job done he had found his thing!
How The Dots Joined Up For Taylor
No, actually he was just fine tuning his talents, developing his skills and finding out what doesn’t work in his life.
So what you can see is this guy at his core was and is an entrepreneur, a man who needs to be challenged by tackling bigger and bolder projects.
Its the uncertainty of life that stimulates him and makes him come alive.
So when did he decide that he wasn’t going to be an employee sitting in a cubicle making calls for eight hours a day?
And does he see that his dots have well and truly lined up, or is he simply just getting started to what he now believes he can truly achieve?
Well lets find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Taylor Pearson.
Why it is so important to have the fear of failure looming over you every-time you start something new, and the reasons why?
Why it is so hard to stop comparing yourself against people who have been doing what you want to do for many years.
Why realising that you are about to undertake five years hard-work is the perfect way to maintain the performance you need to get to the top.
How a two minute period is an amazing concept for an entrepreneur to focus on , and how it will beat all doubts and fears into submission.
How sleeping rough on the streets of Bolivia with just a rucksack as a pillow allowed Taylor to live “His worst case scenario” and think “It’s not too bad at all!”
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How To Connect To Taylor Pearson
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Full Transcription of Taylor Pearson Interview
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK, David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:26]
Hello there. Well, how are we? How are we Oh, you’re rocking and rolling. Looking forward to another show? Well, I’m looking forward to delivering a show, because I’ve got a guy on the upper end. And he’s, he’s is one of those guys that when you start researching him, you can’t really get a firm steer on what the man is all about. He’s chosen many different paths in his life. And he’s tried many different things that for whatever reason, kind of turned out to be the wrong ones. Now at the moment, as he says, In his own words, I primarily write and consult with authors, entrepreneurs and CEOs about how to find clarity and confidence in it. Businesses expand their marketing through thought leadership and scale their internal business systems. Now that sounds very professional, doesn’t it? But let’s tell you about this guy first. He actually started he wanted to be a lawyer and then changed his mind to become a freelance Spanish interpreter, then an English teacher in Brazil before playing Semi Pro Football, and many built a profitable business sending advertising to kitchen furniture manufacturers. And job Dan he found his thing. Now Actually, he was just fine tuning his talents, developing his skills and finding out what doesn’t work in his life. So what you can see in this guy at his core was and is, he’s an entrepreneur, he’s a man who needs to be challenged by tackling bigger and bolder projects is the uncertainty of life that seems to stimulate him and makes him come alive. So when did you decide that he wasn’t going to be an employee sitting in a cubicle making calls for eight hours a day? And does he see these dots have well and truly lined up or is he simply just getting started? While he now believes he can truly achieve Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr. Taylor Pearson. How are you Taylor?
Taylor Pearson [2:10]
Very well, sir. Thank you. I’m excited to be here.
David Ralph [2:12]
It is good to have you. You’ve just rolled out of bed. You’re a young man, you’ve got a whole day ahead of yourself. What is it gonna be for you on this Thursday? Is it gonna be wild parties all the way through? Or are you going to be working hard, just purely
Taylor Pearson [2:27]
yacht cruises, only yacht cruises today? I’m working. I got a presentation I’m giving in two weeks at a conference in Bangkok. So I’m gonna sit down and work on that for a few hours this morning. And then I’ve got an event tomorrow, in Austin, Texas, where I’m located right now. We’re going to work on this afternoon and that’s that’s the bulk of my day.
David Ralph [2:52]
Until you look at it when you say that you’re going to Bangkok and you’re doing a presentation now a lot of people would go wow and others would go, oh, that seems a bit scary. Now that you’re doing that, and you’re preparing and you’re competent and you’re moving through, do you look back at it and go? Blimey, I can’t imagine I could have done this two years ago.
Taylor Pearson [3:13]
Yeah, definitely I could you told me I remember actually, the first time I went to Bangkok was three years ago. And it was for this exact same conference. And I was going because I had just been hired by the company running the conference. And I was like, just to show up to the conference. I was terrified at the time. And now, you know, going back three years later, four years later, and speaking at the conference is like it kind of a surreal experience for me. So I think there’s no way I would have thought this was something I’d be doing even 12 months ago.
David Ralph [3:46]
And do you like about uncertainty in introduction? It seemed to me but you were somebody that thrived on not totally being comfortable and pushing at the barriers all the time.
Taylor Pearson [3:58]
You know, I think I was listening to interview with Seth Godin. He was on Brian Koppelman podcast a moment few months ago. And he said something like really struck a chord with me, which was art is doing human generous work that might not work, which changes someone for the better. And I think he like really resonated with me because it’s like, which might not work cause I think, in order I’ve realised something about myself, like, in order for me to be happy with what I’m doing, I like have to have this sense that it might not work. Like I think there’s lots of projects I see now that I could do that, like it would definitely work. And I know it would definitely work and that like really saps my motivation, and saps my interest in doing a project. So I do think there’s something about my makeup at this point. I think it’s learned not born, to be honest. I don’t think I was always like this, that I do sort of like crave that. That Yeah, that unknown factor that oh, you know, this might not work,
David Ralph [4:59]
I think is the key. essence, though, isn’t it to an entrepreneur that you have that ability, I come from public speaking background, I did it for years and years and years. And I always liked the fact that I was slightly on edge, but it was gonna go badly wrong. And when I record the shows, as I said to you at the beginning, I don’t know the first word that’s going to come out my mouth, and I kind of like that it makes you get ready. It’s like a starting gun. The fact that it could go badly wrong means that you are, you’re playing to your strengths to make sure it doesn’t. And that’s the ability that most of the successful entrepreneurs have, isn’t it?
Taylor Pearson [5:36]
I think so. A book that made a big impact on me was the War of Art by Steven pressfield. And he talks about this concept of like, the resistance of like, kind of at that feeling in the pit of your stomach you get before you start working on the thing you know, you should be working on in that moment, you know, and I still get that like that feeling in the pit of my stomach before I sit down to write I get up before I like do these calls. I’m like You know, God, I hope I don’t say something dumb and I think it is something that never goes away. I’ve talked to people that have done hundreds of the hundreds of podcasts and they still get that feeling in the pit of their stomach, you know, at this point I’ve written for, you know, hundreds and hundreds of days, maybe thousands at this point and I still get that feeling in the pit of my stomach.
David Ralph [6:20]
And is it a comfortable feeling now? Is it something that you look forward to feeling or do you would you like to be able to push it away and just feel totally comfortable?
Taylor Pearson [6:30]
I think if I lost it, I think that would be really hard for me. I wouldn’t say it feels comfortable. But it It feels necessary at this point.
David Ralph [6:40]
So let’s take you back in time because obviously at this point, you’re rocking and rolling, you’re competent, you’re doing the do and you’re loving your life but your your life has been a bit of a journey. And it seems to be most things that you go into. You can do extremely well until your mojo goes and then that is the time of changing direction. Now there was an interesting thing that I was reading on your blog, and I’m gonna paraphrase. But there was a guy that he was reading or you were listening to Jeffrey Gitomer or guy Toma and yeah, something to do with shove it shove it and it was the starting point of your whole life. Tell us that story because I found it fascinating how you were, as I say, you was on your path, but then you quite simply realised on this one day that you was on the wrong path and you needed to make a serious detour.
Taylor Pearson [7:32]
Well, I think that story was kind of the genesis of my writing. I was living in San Diego at the time. I was working with a manufacturing company, I was running the online marketing for their ecommerce businesses and I had this like 30 minute walk to work every morning I looked about 30 minutes away and I would like wake up a bit earlier and walk and I didn’t own a car. So I was walking to work and I would listen to sales tapes or like audio books. At the time, I was doing a bunch of sales work. So I had, I bought four or five sales books. And one of them was this book called The, I think, the little red book of selling by Jeffrey Gitomer. And he started, you know, he went through and he started giving us all this just really like a generic sales advice. And there was just like, one moment, I remember specifically, he was going on this rant about, like, you know, the average person watches four hours of television per day. And if you just take one of those hours, and you’re devoted to learning, sales training, then like, Yeah, and I was like, so frustrated, because, you know, I was like, actually trying to learn sales. And I didn’t watch any television. I didn’t know the television is like that was it like, that wasn’t the problem. It’s like, you know, people that are out there that are motivated, they’re trying to do something aren’t watching four hours of television with their life. They’re like, looking for more helpful advice than that. And so that was, I think, kind of what inspired me or motivated me to keep writing into invest more in my writing because I felt like you know, there’s like, no way this is the best advice out there. Like there’s no The best advice is like don’t watch four hours of television like there is more nuanced, more helpful things that can be said. And, you know, writing for me is like a process of figuring those things out for myself. And hopefully in a way that is helpful to other people.
David Ralph [9:16]
But you know, that was the greatest advice you ever got. Okay? It might not have been how he wanted it. But for you, it was a life changing bit of information that has pushed you to the post, and where you are now you kind of beat him back and you’re never gonna get that bit of information again, but changes your life in such a dramatic way.
Taylor Pearson [9:37]
Yeah, I think maybe what was inspiring to me about it, in some ways, was, you know, he was a very successful guy. He’s a very successful guy, and from everyone I’ve talked to, he’s actually very good sales trainer. And maybe that wasn’t his best book, but I think to see like what he had been able to accomplish I think that was inspired because like, you know, like, I can do like I could write a book better than this book, I think. I think there’s like more to be done and more to be said than he’s done here. So yeah, in some ways, it was a catalyst I think. So it’s always been kind of inspiring to me in a strange way is when you meet people that you have built up in your head, I can think of when I was living in San Diego, I’d go to these startup events, and meet guys that had sold their company for $50 million. And like, all these things that you read about in like, TechCrunch, or the media is these, like, amazing kind of feats of entrepreneurship. And I’d meet these guys and I was like, you know, like, I feel like, he’s not that much smarter than me. Like, you know, it’s like, like a nice guy, obviously, very smart, obviously, very hardworking not to detract anything from but like, I feel like I could do that, you know, I mean, he’s gotten me like five or 10 more years in the game than me. And like, obviously, there’s some skill sets need to develop and there’s some people I need to meet but like, that’s, like, achievable and so it kind of took that, you know, I think Got a lot of those moments and I think that was a substantial one where I saw someone who had kind of built up this idolised picture in my mind, and once I actually, you know, got to know them got started, I was like, you know, like, I could do that, like, that’s totally within my grasp. And I think that’s always been kind of inspiring to me.
David Ralph [11:18]
That’s a real starting point, isn’t it when you sell, I can do that. I think that’s the number one phrase I talked about on Join Up Dots time and time again. That moment when you look at somebody who’s got success, and you actually think I could do that, and they I think I can do it better as well.
Taylor Pearson [11:36]
Yeah, I think it’s always been really important for me, I’ve noticed to like actually meet those people in person because it’s so easy, at least for me to build up this like mental picture in my mind. You know, like the way people portray themselves on the internet, myself included is certainly not like the full spectrum of who they are as a human being. I think about when I release an article or an essay on my site, it’s like seeking me 20 hours of work or 10 hours of work to get this, like, you know, 110 minute article out. So it’s like 20 hours of my best creative energy compressed into this 110 minute experience for someone. So that’s like, you know, that’s far more impressive than I am in person. Or at least I hope it’s more impressive than I am a person that you know, to meet me in person, I say interesting things with much less frequency than someone reading them in my book or on my site, and so I think that’s true of everyone until I go and kind of meet these people in person always gives me this sense of like, yeah, like, this guy. He’s doing really cool stuff and there’s totally things I can learn from him. But that’s not out of my reach out of my grasp. I can surround myself with those kind of people I can like understand how to do what they’re doing.
David Ralph [12:50]
Yeah, absolutely. And I think one of the the key problems that most people have is that they, they haven’t got that ability to see the progression because they only see the latest highlights. So we come over to your blog and we see your best work because it’s the last bit and you’ve been doing it for three or four years, you rarely go back and you dig around to find the very first blog post that you wrote, you just see the one that appears in front of your eyes. And when you go and see people’s websites, it’s always the most well developed and there is an interesting site, you’ll probably know it, because I can’t think of it off the top of my head. But you can actually go back and you can see screenshots of people’s websites over the years. And so you can see that somebody like Pat Flynn, for example, has got Smart Passive income, which looks amazing, actually, five years ago look nothing like that. And it was just the kind of work that we could do. So how do you benchmark yourself against for how do you stop yourself looking at somebody else, like the Pat Flynn’s, like the Michael Hyatt, and think to yourself, ah, it’s alright for them because they they’ve got all the answers. It’s a secret power that only they know and you don’t Look at the sort of incremental gains that they’ve built up over the years. How do you stop yourself?
Taylor Pearson [14:04]
Well, I think one thing I did which wasn’t certainly wasn’t the shortest path, but I was reading Pat Flynn’s site, definitely five years ago, maybe six or seven years ago, like right when he was just getting started, you’d like just on his like very first project, let him quit his job and it just started writing Smart Passive income. And it’s been interesting to watch his journey. Obviously, he’s done a lot of a lot of work and done a lot of really great things but you know, on a, on a day to day basis, or on a month to month basis, you know, most people I think can do the level of work that he does certainly like lots of hard work and lots of dedication and not to take anything away from him. But you know, part of the reason it looks like it looks today is because he’s been at it for 789 years. And the like, you know, that’s that’s like not the sexy secret. It was never the secret I was looking for but just that takes time i think i do i one of my favourite things is definitely to go back, I have a few bloggers who I really like and to go back and read. They’re like the first or second or third post. There’s a blogger I really liked. He started writing in 2007. And I remember going back to his first article maybe two years ago, and I just read one of his most recent ones, and it was amazing. Like, this is so good, like, I’ll never be able to write at this level or to think at this level. And I went back to a second article, and it starts off with like, this blogging thing is going really really badly. I certainly hope it gets better and it’s like, you read the writing, it’s like terrible. It’s much worse don’t he’s dirty now and I was like, Oh my god, like, I’m this good. Like, I’m this guy just gonna take me five years like that’s it. You just gotta like do the work for five years.
David Ralph [15:47]
And but you can do it, can’t you? I had a gentleman called Jeff Goins on the on the show, and he literally was blogging for eight years before anybody paid any attention. And once he got the attention It was a snowball, but it took for eight years to actually get enough snow together for people to realise that he was around. And we can all do that unless you’re gonna get run over by a bus or something and you’ve got no idea that’s gonna happen. I’m 45 years old now. I’m hoping to be here for another 45 years. I could I could work as hard as crazy for five years if it means the rest of my life is gonna be a dream. And I think you’d be the same as well tailor when you
Taylor Pearson [16:29]
Yeah, I think five years is like a good way to think about it. I we’ve been writing for maybe four or five years now and like, it’s just starting to get a little bit of traction for me, like I just published my first book. It’s like just kind of started picking up really in the last six months and I think I want to I started my blog and maybe 2011 so I have a little bit of traction now and it took me four years to get there. So I think you know, one of Things I like to say in the back of my head all the time is, like, just keep going, you know, like, you’re like looking at all these problems, or I’m like, What? Like, how do I solve this? And how do I do this? And that, you know, just like, I don’t know, like, just keep going, just keep chipping work, just keep doing projects. And that seems to, you know, take care of itself over the long run.
David Ralph [17:21]
But let’s play some words that really emphasise what you just said, this is from a lady who is quite famous in her own right, she’s worth a few dollars. I imagine. This is Oprah.
Oprah Winfrey [17:31]
The way through the challenge is to get still and ask yourself, what is the next right move? not think about, Oh, I got all of this stuff. But what is the next right move? And then from that space, make the next right move and the next right move and not to be overwhelmed by it because you know, your life is bigger than that one moment. You know, you’re not defined by what somebody says is a failure for you because Failure is just there to point you in a different direction.
David Ralph [18:03]
Now, I love that. And I play it not on every show, but more often than not, it’s on the show. And I just think that is a blueprint for what we’re talking about and how success is built. What do you think, Mr. Pearson?
Taylor Pearson [18:16]
Yeah, actually, the first thing I thought of listening that I have, I have a couple friends that are really obsessed with the US Navy SEALs, they’ve read like dozens of books from US Navy SEALs. And so I’ve gotten a little bit into it myself and read a couple and one of the things that I really sticks in my mind from all their accounts, is they have this they call it hell week but this like one week trial period before you become a seal, where you know, you don’t sleep for a week and you have to like tread in freezing cold water for hours and breathe through ice through a mask and you know, they throw cold water on you like the way after you get 15 minutes of sleep and it’s this like, really brutal, brutal, challenging period. And one of the things that Basically everything I’ve ever read about it has said is that once you cross a certain threshold of kind of physical ability, so you have to be like a certain level of strong a certain level of insight. But someone that’s just past that threshold purse versus someone that’s twice as good. There’s no difference, or there’s no statistical difference in which one actually makes it through the week. The like the number one kind of predictor of success once you’ve crossed that basic threshold is all mindset. And they say specifically, the thing that successful people that get there successfully do that others don’t, is they never think more than two minutes ahead. So they just say okay, I’m just gonna make it to the next two minutes. Like once I make it to the next two minutes, I can quit if I want to, but I’m gonna make it to the next two minutes, and they make it their two minutes and it’s okay. I’m just gonna make it two more minutes. Like just two more minutes and that’s it. And, you know, they that’s what they do for a weekend. Like, just these two minute increments, okay, I Can I just get through these next two minutes. And that, you know, you add up two minutes enough times and like that’s a week of really horrible, horrible training. And I think that’s kind of like an interesting like metaphor like, okay, like, Can I do today’s work today? Yes. Okay, I’m just gonna do today’s work and worry about tomorrow later.
David Ralph [20:23]
Now, obviously, you’re talking with passion and enthusiasm because you’re living this but when you were sort of back into doing this sort of the sales calls and all that kind of stuff. Did you have the same mentality when you wanted to be a lawyer? Did you realise you just had to keep on going because you did quite a lot of things in the early days. The lawyer, Spanish interpreter, English teacher, you sort of moved around. Did the two minute rule apply to you, Batman?
Taylor Pearson [20:48]
I certainly doubted it. Then I still like I still have plenty of moments now where I think you know, like, everything is totally hosed. Like, yeah, everything is gonna fall apart and collapse and there’s no way this will keep going. I’m not sure I certainly didn’t have that same philosophy of like, day by day, I think I tried to like figure things out long into advance. I think over the past five years, I’ve started planning on shorter and shorter timelines. And I think, okay, like, here’s what to do this next quarter, and then you know, I’ll figure it out after that. And I was, I’ve kind of given up trying to figure out the the five year plan, I just, you know, abandon this notion that I’m going to plan my life and know how it’s gonna work out five years in advance. Like, let’s focus on what the opportunities I have are now and how I can you know, best take advantage of those
David Ralph [21:37]
of you become more successful because you’ve prone that plan away, do you think?
Taylor Pearson [21:42]
I think so, you know, so it’s like hard to tell, you can’t run the A B split tests where there’s like me in a parallel universe that still tries to do that. But I think so in my observation of other people that have done the same thing is that it does seem to kind of get rid of this notion of you know, I Like figure out my whole life for the next five years, which is like a very, I think a very like, Primal human thing like we want this, or certainly I want this, like safety and security of knowing everything is going to kind of be the same or it’s going to work out for the next five years. feels really good, but I think is, you know, harmful and in some ways, dangerous because I think it closes certainly close my eyes to a lot of possibilities.
David Ralph [22:29]
I think that’s the key thing. I think that is if you it becomes more fluid, doesn’t it? Because you are literally playing you’re making it up as you go along and those opportunities that come towards you, but maybe don’t fit into the big plan the big picture. Ultimately, more often than not, are the ones that do move you forward, but you’ve allowed them to come in. Somebody once said to me in one of the shows, but by saying no enough, it allows you to have the big yeses where he used to say yes or time thinking it would move him on. And then he changed direction. And I think that’s what you’re saying there. You’re saying that your output to have the big yeses, because you haven’t got the plan that is dictating, but nose and yeses.
Taylor Pearson [23:14]
Yeah, I certainly Derek Severs has a great article called hell yes or no. Which I referenced frequently kind of saying, you know, if it’s not something that is so exciting that you say, you know, hell yeah. The correct answer is no. So I do yeah, I think there’s constantly this struggle of trying to keep your plate clear of the yeses to make room for the, you know, the hell yeses. So if we go back
David Ralph [23:43]
again, what what did your parents because it’s always interesting, you’re still a young man. And so for most of us, we have a kind of parental pressure at the beginning. So you set off to be a lawyer and I can imagine your mom and dad Well, my son Taylor, he’s going to be a lawyer. Then you change your mind and you become a Spanish intern. butterman you change your mind again? Did you get that kind of pressure to change the path because of the generations that you’re sort of moving on from your, your, your parents?
Taylor Pearson [24:11]
I did to summer it was actually funny. I was talking with someone a few weeks ago, my arm, I wouldn’t say I, my family has been generally speaking, very, very supportive. And I think that’s not typical for entrepreneurs. And so I think I’ve been very, very fortunate. I think there was always kind of this like, subtle sense that like, Oh, well, eventually Taylor will get serious and like, he’ll go to law school or he’ll go get an MBA, and like, he’s kind of just like, you know, he’s playing around now. And that’s fine. But, you know, at some point who gets serious and I just published my first book three months ago, and basically the the premise of the book is, you know, business, school, law school, all these kind of traditional degrees are getting less valuable, and that entrepreneurship as a skill set and as a result You can invest in and build is getting, you know, more fun, more profitable, and increasingly safer. And I was joking, you know, the book came out and it’s done decently well. And I was laughing with a friend like my parents like finally dropped. When are you going back to business school thing. But it took me like five years and writing a book about why that’s not a good idea to kind of finally get past that. I do think, in my particular case, like my parents saw that things were changing and even like my my older sister, that their careers, they could kind of see the writing on the wall that the traditional path was getting more competitive. You know, my sister is a physician in the US. And so the way physicians are reimbursed is based upon rates set by Medicare, which is kind of a government healthcare system. And then Medicare was just cutting reimbursement rates because they had less and less money to reimburse from and then the insurance terms companies which pay the other rates were also like declining their age gradually. So she was doing more and more work. And she was less and less happy with the quality of care she was able to provide. So you know, I had to see 50 people a day instead of 30, which means I get to spend much less time with those people to talk about their problems. And I’m actually my income is going down. And so they kind of saw this treadmill and like, where things were headed. So I think they were certainly open to the idea of like, you know, this, this isn’t sustainable for the next 50 years, like if you’re about to enter the workforce right now. Or you’re, you know, mid career in the workforce. And you’re looking out, like, there’s no way this can keep going on. And like we see this is happening in other industries, that people are working harder and harder, and it’s getting more and more competitive, just as it gets less and less profitable. And so they were open to, you know, explore at least letting me explore other routes.
David Ralph [26:57]
I think he was very wise and I do think that that gave you a gift fair because I hear from time and time again that people are almost dictated to by their, their parents, their family to go on a path that is so obviously not them. So, at your essence Ben, what do you think it is about you that lead you towards success? What is your super talent? But Taylor appears and has and can bring to the world every day.
Taylor Pearson [27:25]
But let me go back there’s one thing that popped in my mind. When you were you’re saying that I think one thing I always realised about I don’t know, I didn’t always realise this but a helpful finger. I realised about my family as if they had, you know, 15 points to allocate for my life. And you know, there was 10 for my my happiness and doing things that I found meaningful and there was 10 for safety. You know, they only have 15 between these like two buckets of 20. They would put 10 in safety, and five and happiness. Yeah, because they were more concerned about like, we just want everything to be Okay, like, you know, don’t let anything bad happen. Then they, you know, like, you know, putting 10 in happiness and five and safety and maybe something goes wrong, that was much more stressful for them. And they’re much more concerned about my safety. And so I think when I had that realisation, I started taking their advice from that measure that they were thinking, not necessarily about what I wanted to do. But just to make sure nothing terrible went wrong. And that was usually where their advice went from. And that wasn’t necessarily the advice I should be listening to in terms of you know how I’m going to spend my life.
David Ralph [28:35]
So did they not understand what made you tick them? Could they not see that ultimately, you are somebody with hustle muscle? That has to be creative? I can see that already. You’re a communicator, you’ve got passion, that sitting in a cubicle picking up the phone, eight hours a day was gonna ultimately kill you somehow.
Taylor Pearson [28:55]
Yeah, I don’t even know if I saw it. So I don’t think I can hold it against them. The bail. Don’t
David Ralph [29:01]
bring your parents down. That’s what we love doing.
Taylor Pearson [29:04]
Yeah, I don’t think I don’t think I saw it. So I can’t say they didn’t see it. I don’t think at least for my parents kind of like the path I’ve gone on. And I’m on now it’s like, they don’t even know that it’s real. It just seems so ethereal. And kind of like, resides just like doesn’t make sense. You know? Like, yeah, you kind of trace the backstory, like, there’s no way to, to connect the dots looking forward, right? Like, you can only connect the dots looking backwards and like then thinking about my safety, that’s like a really scary notion. It’s like, You’re okay, you’re gonna like, you know, at one point, I went to work for this publishing company in Hong Kong. Like, you’re gonna like, go to Asia and work for this publishing company. Like, how is this gonna work out for you? And I was like, I was like, I don’t know. But like, that’s that’s kind of the point. It just like feels like the right thing to do
at this point in my career, but did you
David Ralph [29:59]
know that you had to Korea, or were you just making up as you go along? You know, if we asked your parents Now, what does tell you to do? Could they actually tell us?
Taylor Pearson [30:10]
No, I don’t think I mean, they would say I, I wrote a book and I do some consulting. But they couldn’t really you know, I had some friends from college that someone was telling me they a friend from college and another friend from college I was talking about, I mean, you, you’re saying the other friend had said, like, we did what is Taylor dude? Like, does he actually like make any money or like, do anything or, you know, like, What is he doing? And I think, you know, it’s, it’s hard to explain to someone, it’s not a part of that world.
David Ralph [30:40]
But it isn’t a it’s not what I do. Number one question is, how do you make money from it? And of course, I can explain it to the ninth degree, but still, that is the number one question, and I know that’s probably number two. Number one is what is a podcast, and then is how do you make money from it? It’s, it is one of those sort of concepts. You think this is madness. You’re not working for an hour for $1 or whatever. You are literally creating stuff. And how do you get that monetization? Do you remember the first time that you did something online, but wasn’t something tangible like a product that actually brought you value?
Taylor Pearson [31:24]
I do. I vividly remember this moment. I had been I was living in Brazil, I was teaching English and playing football. And I started building these kitchen furniture, advertising websites, on the side. And I remember like the first day I looked in and I actually had like someone who had clicked on one of the ads and I made like $1 42 it was like a transcendent moment. I was actually I was visiting a friend I was travelling. I was in Chile. I was in this hostel in the mountains of Chile. It was like freezing cold outside. I was like covered in your life. Warm hot warm jacket like pull up my laptop and looked in there so like $1 42 in my advertising account Yeah, um, and like overwhelming sense of joy like oh my god like like this is real you can like do stuff on the internet and like actually make real money. And that was I think I guess I kind of a threshold a bit once like once you made one internet dollar like that is some sort of like mindset shift.
David Ralph [32:26]
What it is, isn’t it? I was interviewing somebody and he said what people don’t realise is if you make that dollar, just keep on focusing on that dollar to make it $2 what people more often than not, they will move to something else and they will move to something else. And it’s interesting when you you know, we’re talking about Pat Flynn at the beginning. I’ve heard him on numerous shows being out to give that figure when first money come in through AdSense or whatever and the first amount that he got for his product, those those benchmark figures where you realise that it is possible It is mind blowing, isn’t it when you suddenly realise that hang on, I am actually here on my sofa watching television and money’s flying into my bank account and I’m not doing anything that breaks down the the mindsets from generations gone past that had to go out and do work and they got paid for their efforts. I love it. I really do.
Taylor Pearson [33:21]
It’s Yeah, it’s it’s amazing that it’s possible. I just, I had the money. I published a book about three months kind of takes Amazon three months to hit the bank account, I logged into my Amazon account. I was like, Oh my god, like, I just got paid for my writing. Like someone just paid me to write something. in Dallas, it was like kind of that same moment all over again. Like, you know, that was never something I was told, which is like, you know, you can write and people will pay you for that. Like, that’s not something that was kind of like true in my mind. And it was like, Okay, oh my god, like, I can do this.
David Ralph [33:57]
And this Yeah, and of jobs. This was your book we ended up doing Yes, published by our good mutual friend, Mr. Tom Marcus.
Taylor Pearson [34:06]
I was Tom helped me with the marketing tremendously.
David Ralph [34:10]
Did you need somebody to fill in the blanks because I’m very aware now that the people that really rock and roll, know how to do one thing. And I’ve only had one person actually put their hand up and go, yes, I’m an idiot. I just know how to do one thing very, very well. But more often than not, the essence of my conversations are that somebody needs somebody to market. They can create the best book in the world, but unless I get it to market is never going to sell anything. They can create the best product. Were you aware that there was a gap in your knowledge and you needed Tom’s experience? Or could you have done it yourself?
Taylor Pearson [34:47]
I don’t think I could have done it. To the degree I could have done. I’ve been doing marketing consulting and marketing for a couple of years, but I’ve never done it like on Amazon or with a book and there was a time I have specialised expertise that he was able to bring me and deliver to me that the night yeah, I couldn’t have maybe I could have figured out myself, it would take me two years. And I figured out like, you know, in two weeks, so they were able to massively accelerate that learning curve. And I think, you know, that was something going into this year, actually, that I thought a lot about, and I’m still thinking about is just like the value of relationships and being able to, or trying to be better about, you know, reaching out to other people mean, look, I, I have no idea of what I’m, what I’m doing with this. And I’m in this process right now of the books come out, and it’s done fairly well. And I’m talking with some publishers about doing maybe a traditionally published version or another traditionally published book, and I just, like started emailing everyone, and they’re like, hey, like, I have no idea how to handle I don’t know how publishers think I don’t know how to system works. I don’t know, the rules of the game. Like, I don’t know anything about this. I think that was something like my, maybe my ego used to get in the way of me doing that I was a little too ashamed. I felt like I was imposing on people. If I would like, reach out and just say, like, Hey, I don’t know, I’d really appreciate if you helped me out. And if there’s something I can help you out with, I’d love to do that too. And it’s, to the degree I’ve gotten better at that. It seems to have really paid off.
David Ralph [36:27]
course it does, doesn’t it? You know, when we start all businesses, we shoot shoestring them, and we try to keep all our money that we earn so that we can pay the bills and stuff. It’s totally understandable. And in the first year of Join Up Dots, I did every single thing myself, not one thing was anybody else. Then I thought to myself, this is killing me. I need to get some help here. So I got a virtual assistant in India, and rubbish total rubbish. I spent more time trying to get them up to speed then I could have just done it myself and then saved myself a lot of money. But now I’m very, very focused on finding a person that’s got a skill, but I need to replicate constantly, constantly, constantly. And once I’ve done that, and I got that mindset of, if I do it right, and don’t just throw money at things, but actually find the right person, it’s gonna speed up my process and my progress. It certainly has been there for me. It wasn’t a fear of reaching out. It was a fear of spending any money.
Taylor Pearson [37:30]
there’s a there’s a terrific it’s a free PDF online. It’s called principles by Ray Dalio. And he has he’s a bunch of one liners in there that are really amazing takeaways, but I have one, actually, that I read every morning and think about a lot that’s very much to this point, which is, I believe that I can get all I want out of life by suspending my ego and taking a no excuses approach to achieving my goals with open mindedness, determination and courage by relying on the help of others who are strong Ryan week. Like last relying on the help of others who are strong where I’m weak is, I think, something that’s always been difficult for me to, you know, admit my weakness. And get over that and just say, look, you know, I’m good at this, but I’m really bad
at all these other things, and you know, I’d love your help. But
David Ralph [38:21]
he’s acceptable, isn’t it? You know, you get Michael Jordan, and you get him to play soccer is gonna be rubbish. You’ve got to play to your strengths. But yeah, he
Taylor Pearson [38:30]
played baseball, and he was pretty bad. Yeah, I
David Ralph [38:32]
remember him doing that as well. And he played with Bugs Bunny in some film as well. And he was pretty bad at that as well, whatever that film was, but we don’t expect him to be the world’s greatest golfer. We don’t expect David Beckham to be the world’s greatest swimmer. But in the entrepreneurial world, we kind of expect ourselves to be able to do everything. And once you shake that off, you know, I know that my number one talent is talking into this thing or talking to somebody. That’s my number one talent. All the rest of the stuff I’m actually a very good writer as well. But that’s communication in a written format. But all the rest of the stuff I don’t need to do, I just need to find the right person to do it. And it took me a long time to realise that, but I’m never gonna be. I’m gonna be Michael Jordan swimmer and not Michael Jordan basketball player.
Taylor Pearson [39:18]
Yeah, I think it’s interesting. Like, if I look back at my career, and as I look at other people’s careers, it seems to be much more a process of subtraction and a process of addition, which is like you start out and you have all these options and you just start eliminating options. And eventually you get down I think the the person that tells the story best is Scott Adams, the guy that writes the Dilbert comic strip, that he figured out this like very, very specific skill set, which is, you know, I’m a pretty good cartoonist. I understand corporate American culture pretty well. I’m sort of funny, and so like, you know, those three things combined together have led him right this amazingly successful syndicated hilarious comic strip for 20 something years, but it’s not like, you know, like sitting around at, like 25 years old, 30 years old, 40 years old. I don’t think he started until he was into his 40s. Like, that’s like not an obvious thing to get good at, like, I should get clever and understanding American corporate culture. I should be a decent cartoonist, and I should get kind of funny. And like, that’ll be a really valuable skill set for me to have. Like, it doesn’t even make sense. Like if you didn’t know who Scott Adams was, it doesn’t even make sense now. But it worked out really, really well for him. But he had so many layers of things to kind of like peel back the onion, before he could figure out what those three things were and how to combine them.
David Ralph [40:47]
how smooth is your onion getting better now, on that sort of analogy that you said that you chip away? You chip away, chip away until you find the right thing? What how many layers Do you think you’ve gone down?
Taylor Pearson [41:01]
I think just a couple to be honest. I think I’ve got a lot more layers to peel back, I think, you know, writing is certainly something that I’ve kind of realised is towards the core of that onion. But exactly, you know, what that looks like, and what the other activities, you know, around the writing are and exactly what kind of writing that is. I’m like, still sort of peeling that back. But I think what’s interesting, to me, at least is, you know, if I was looking at myself five years ago, even to peel back like one or two of those layers is so helpful.
David Ralph [41:40]
So what would happen if you stripped down loads of layers and then you found yourself once again, not liking what you was doing? Or do you think that by this process of assessing yourself ultimately you’re gonna find that thing that people have been looking for all the time, the thing that is truly BAM?
Taylor Pearson [41:58]
Yeah, I think the The thing I think about there’s a kind of a Venn diagram and I stole this from Ben Casnocha so I’ll give him credit but you know, what am I What am I really good at? What do I really enjoy doing and you’re measuring these two circles in a Venn diagram and then what is the market need? And then there’s some overlap there for I think, I believe for every one of like, something I’m really good at something I really enjoy doing. And something that that serves a need in the marketplace and I think that like that point, probably shifts around right like the market changes and what you’re good at you get better at certain things and probably worse at other things. And your tastes change, but I think there’s always you know, some point there to be moving towards,
David Ralph [42:48]
can you always pay the bills without fear? Or do you live in now thinking oh, my God, I’ve got me rent to pay. How am I going to do the money? Oh, can you literally go out and hustle some money.
Taylor Pearson [43:00]
I have a lot more faith in myself I used to have, like if things get really tight
to be able to go out and
and like hustle something up. And I think, I think that it seems to get easier and easier. Like I think as I get better at what I do, and my skill set gets better. And also, as you know, the people I, the people I know and the people around me, trust me more and they see my skills developing. I think, like one thing I always have in the back of my head is I actually have this like list of like five or 10 people who I know I could email and say, Hey, everything just totally collapsed. Like I can work on a project with you for six months, you know, like I’ll work really hard for 20 or 30 hours a week while I get you know something else off the ground. And I think as I’ve come to feel secure about you know, like those five people I know like some of them I’ve talked to about it like I know they would say yes that lets me sleep a lot easier. But yeah, it’s definitely something that still comes into my mind.
David Ralph [44:07]
So if we stripped away everything and your your network being your net worth wasn’t there, and you just had a laptop and you had your fingers, do you reckon you could hustle it up? Or is your network the key safety blanket that you forgot?
Taylor Pearson [44:23]
I think the network is a huge part of it. Um, yeah, I think, I guess the other thing I think about is like what’s like, what’s the real worst case scenario? I remember I was. At one point, I was backpacking through Bolivia. This was when I was like 19 or 20. And my ATM card like bank like blocked my ATM card for three days. And so I had like just enough money to buy food for three days, but I couldn’t afford a hostel and I couldn’t get any more money. So I like bought like two loaves of bread and some fried chicken. I just like slept on the street in Bolivia for three days. I’ve had a couple of books with me. So I like, like sleep on the street and read books, and like eat my chicken and bread. And he like, wasn’t that I was like, yeah, it’s like kind of uncomfortable. And I was like sleeping on a backpack. But it was like, Yes, like I can sleep on the street in Bolivia. It’s like, not that bad. So I feel like I think that’s in some strange way, like reassuring to me. Like I can always just like a laptop in my backpack. Like, there’s the worst case scenario isn’t really as terrible as I think I often build it up in my mind to be, it’s like really this undefined, nebulous thing. And as soon as I define what that worst case scenario is, it gets a lot more. I get less concerned, but it doesn’t. It doesn’t stop me from worrying about it. I can’t control my mind to that extent yet.
David Ralph [45:47]
I think most people’s worst case scenario is about four really when you sort of analyse it, and you think to yourself, like how am I going to pay the bills because that’s the number one and then well, I’ll get the job I don’t like or I just do something in More often than not, you can do something I was reading about this this kid in England, that was doing something like 16 jobs a week, where he would go off to do one job. And then he only earned a little bit so he’d go off and do another one. And he was literally just moving around doing these very small jobs, and they do a paper round, and then he do something else and something else and he was making his money just because he was willing to hustle. And he said, there’s jobs out there. It may not be the job that you want to do, but there’s jobs out there and the worst case scenario rarely happens because you’re, you’re in a colder you’re gonna when you’re in a corner, you fight back and more often than not, you can solve those issues can you?
Taylor Pearson [46:44]
Yeah, I think you can I think most people, at least my personal experience, I tend to underestimate myself but if I I try to do it more deliberately now like back myself into corners, um, and I have a lot more I have more confidence than I used to my ability to to fight myself. Out of those corners.
David Ralph [47:01]
Well, let’s play somebody who did fight his way out of many, many corners and he had an absolute roller coaster ride and he’s left us with these words that became Join Up Dots. And we’re gonna listen to these words and straight afterwards, we’re gonna ask you the question that we generally ask everybody. This is Steve Jobs.
Steve Jobs [47:20]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path, and that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [47:55]
So big words and a course on a programme like Join Up Dots. Looking at connecting your dots. So when did you hit your big dots where all the confidence come together, but you would move on to something that you really liked.
Taylor Pearson [48:09]
I think if I look back at kind of the inflection points in my life, there’s three that really jumped out at me, I kind of eat the three big dots. The first was in high school, I had a coach that I really respected, admired. Who was basically fired for administrative reasons that he had stood up for. Some of his assistant coaches, because they were running these summer camps in the school was taking a very large portion of the money they were earning from these summer camps, that they were doing all the work themselves using the school’s facilities, but they were earning like a very small percentage of kind of the total thing and he said, You know, like, you know, this is unacceptable. I won’t stand for it and they fired him. And it was like a really, I think it was one of the first moments disillusionment in my life was like really crushing to me to see someone who I respected and admired, basically thrown out for doing what he believed was right. And what I thought was a very principled ethical moral stand. And I basically freaked out. And I, you know, made bracelets and I like picketed the school and I like made a website, and like, may had meetings with the principals and all this stuff. And it was, really it was very sad to see him go, but I think like looking at the people around me after I’d done that it was kind of empowering like bad things happen, but like you can change them in a meaningful way and he didn’t come back to the school but he had thought about leaving his career and doing something totally different. I think seeing the impact he made on me and others inspired him to stay I think that like first notion of But there is there are things which happened in the world that are unjust, but that you have the power, like I, as an individual all of a sudden felt the power to affect those things. Like they weren’t things that happened to be on my control, but that I had agency in those issues and that I could do something about them. And I think that’s that notion is like always stuck with me. And I think something that over time, I’ve gradually come to believe, more and more. So that’s kind of the first dot for me. The second one that jumps out at me is kind of an expansion of that. I was in college and sort of on a lark went to Argentina for six months to learn Spanish and at the time, I thought, well, you know, if I learn Spanish, that’ll be good. Like to get into law school or graduate school. It’s something that will set me apart and while I was there, you know, I had kind of dislike the cliche. left the country experience of like, you know, I saw a new culture And I understood a new way of looking at the world that like opened up all these possibilities for me that you know, I thought like you can travel and you can do these things and you can gain other perspectives around the world. And more than anything I remember like the first week I was there I could be I taken maybe five Spanish classes in college, which weren’t very helpful. And my Spanish was really terrible, like I could barely get onto the bus and like, get to school and I was like, This is gonna be horrible. I’m like spend six months I was living with an Argentine family I’m like spend six months I’ll be able to talk to anyone. And by the end of the six months my Spanish had gotten quite good you know, I wasn’t amazing my chance but I was fluent. I could like have conversations I was a part of, like local groups that talked to in like regular Spanish and I could like have conversations with them, and like be a part of their social circle and like a real meaningful way. And there was this other thing of like, like, here was this thing which seemed insurmountable to me six months ago. And yeah, I was I got like, pretty good at like, okay, like this seemed insurmountable six months ago. And now I’m, like, quite competent. And like this other moment of like, you know, I can overcome these sorts of challenges. And then I think the third dot for me was actually the company I worked with in San Diego. I was in this sort of, like, apprenticeship role within the company, which is one of the concepts I talked about in my book is, you know, I think what has worked for me and it’s worked for a lot of other entrepreneurs I know is, you know, can you go get yourself in a job or an apprenticeship with an entrepreneurial company
where you have that security of a paycheck and steady income and all those kinds of things, but you’re learning a tremendous amount about how to run a small business, how to grow a small business, how to manage people, how to do marketing, in sales, and acquiring all these skill sets, and I remember like my first six months were like really rough and even, like, you know, I’m good friends with the CEO of that company now and he’ll, he’ll tell other people like, you know, Taylor’s first six months were like pretty bad, like, we were really thinking we were gonna have to fire him, like he was kind of on the edge. And then I kind of, you know, after six months, like started to hit my groove in the next year and a half that I work for them went really well I was able to do a lot of things to grow their business and they gained a lot of trust and confidence in me and I you know, I had more authority to grow their business and they introduced me to a lot of people and I’m their network, you know, who trusted them and so by proxy ended up trusting me and again, this like thing of like, Oh, my God, I can do this. And yeah, I think that kind of bigger and bigger challenges and and seeing how those Yeah, yeah. See, I think I have more faith in my ability to grow now that I can look at something that seems insurmountable at this moment, and they’re like, okay, like I’ve been in this position before, like, I looked at things, which I didn’t think I could do. And then like, I’ve actually done them and others, like the other great Steve Jobs videos like him sitting in an office, like once, once you realise you can, like affect the world around you that you know that everything in your life is made up of people, no smarter than you are. And you can change that. I think I’ve had like, gradually larger and larger realisations of that, that I can actually change the world around me in a meaningful sense that like the market, and the economy isn’t something that just happens. It’s actually like you can be an actor that affects that and that affects like the composition of,
Unknown Speaker [54:52]
of your reality and validly Can
David Ralph [54:54]
you tell you that by pushing yourself out of that comfort zone, that’s the bottom line to me You think you’re saying, you can only sharpen your tools, you can only get into that swing by going through that uncomfortable period, and then coming out stronger because of it.
Taylor Pearson [55:10]
Yeah, I think I’ve gone back and said again, the War of Art by Steven pressfield was probably the defining book for me in like realising that, that like what, you know, the book is about this concept of the resistance, and that we all feel this resistance inside of us and that it never goes away. And then all you can do is wake up every morning and figure out where that resistance is like, What are you? What are you scared of? And just go, go do battle with it, like, how can you go and move into that uncomfortable situation? And so I i do think about like, what is it that I’m something I asked myself every day like a weekly review I do every Saturday morning. I was like, What What am I afraid of? Like, what is the work that I’m avoiding doing? And as soon as I’ve like figured out what that is, I generally know like, that’s what I have to go do next
David Ralph [55:59]
well Let’s send you on a journey to bring this show to an end. And this is the part of the show that we call a sermon on the mic. When we send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the young Taylor, what age would you choose? And what advice Will you give? Well, we’re gonna find out because I’m going to play the theme tune. And when it fades you out. This is the Sermon on the mic with the
Unknown Speaker [56:29]
speed of the show.
Taylor Pearson [56:45]
Alright, little Taylor. So I’m going to talk to you about 21 years old, I’ve talked to you when you’re younger, but you were too stupid. And I don’t think you take any my advice. So I’ll pick 21 because it sounds like at that point, you might have actually gotten a little bit of a notion of something in your head. And the first thing I would say is, I think, trust, that nagging feeling in the back of your head that even as you look around you, at all the people you’re surrounded by and everything they’re doing and what you perceive as kind of this entirety of reality, that there are actually options and opportunities that you don’t even know exists yet. And that that, that sense of knowing something else is out there isn’t like that’s not entitlement. That’s actually like a very human sense to, to want to strive for something more. And that I think the best thing you can do is to go find your tribe. You know, you’re looking around and you have some really good friends and you’re very fortunate in that but you feel like there’s other people and there’s something else and the best thing you can do at this point is to go figure out who those people are. And that once you find them
to treat them as a really precious resource.
And I think probably the thing that doesn’t make the most sense to you right now is because you’re young, you just don’t have a very long time horizon. And you’re not used to how how long things take. And that’s okay, but you just just keep going. I think always have that in the back of your head. But
when in doubt, keep going. And in the meantime,
Unknown Speaker [58:40]
do a lot of work. Like figure out something you like and just do a tonne of work? Because like maybe at this point, you have some notion of good taste in your head. But in order for you to make things which are actually good, you’re just gonna like do a tonne of really crappy work first. So just like ship a lot of projects, like blog posts and podcasts and new products and, you know, making uncomfortable phone calls just like do a bunch of that even if it’s the wrong stuff, because it’s gonna take a long time and a lot of crappy stuff to figure out what the right stuff is. And make sure you read a lot of books too, because they’re really cheap. And they’re really helpful and when in doubt, pick older books and just read a tonne.
David Ralph [59:32]
Taylor what’s the number one best way that our audience can connect with you sir?
Taylor Pearson [59:38]
So my website is Taylor Pearson ta y LR pa RS o n dot m e. m, and that’s the best place to find me. I’m on Twitter at Taylor Pearson me. And of course
David Ralph [59:51]
go over to Amazon and find his brilliant book the end of jobs, which I’m sure is going to be amazing. Well Tyler, thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots. Please come back again when you have more dots to join up, because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our paths is the best way to build our futures. Mr. Taylor Pearson, thank you so much.
Taylor Pearson [1:00:12]
Thank you so much for having me. And thank you everyone for listening.
David Ralph [1:00:15]
Yes, that was the end of another episode. And that was Episode 438. With Taylor Pierce. And I think we covered a lot in that show. as normal. If you liked the show, and you love the show, please share it with as many people as you can. He only takes a Facebook post or a tweet. And it makes such a huge difference. And I will have you on the show and I’ll I’ll be the nicest person I possibly can to you for the whole hour. So if you do share, and you want to come on the show, you’ve got a story that’s interesting. Drop us a line contact, Join Up email@example.com and we’ll connect with you and we’ll see what we can do. But bottom line, thank you very much for listening. See you again next time. This is David Ralph. This was Join Up Dots. Thank you so much. Bye bye.
doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you or wants to become. So he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to Join Up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on Join Up Dots.