Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Jasmine Burton Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast
To subscribe to the podcast, please use the links below:
Click Here to Subscribe via iTunes
Click Here to Subscribe via RSS (non-iTunes feed)
If you like the show, we would be so grateful if would consider leaving the show a review in iTunes as well as Stitcher Radio. A couple minutes of your time can help the show immensely! Thank YOU!
Introducing Jasmine Burton
Jasmine Burton is our guest today joining us on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots free podcast interview.
She is a lady who is tackling something that so many people would have ignored, or left for someone else to do.
Tackling the worlds water and sanitation issues.
In 2014, her senior design team won the Georgia Tech InVenture Prize Competition, the largest undergraduate invention competition in the United States, for their design of an inexpensive mobile toilet, SafiChoo.
And along side her team at WishWash she has taken her specific design passion, and set out to improve women’s health by means of redesigning WASH infrastructure (such as toilets and menstrual hygiene products) in and for the low income communities of the world.
As according to UNICEF, 2.6 billion people lack hygienic sanitation facilities and 768 million people drink unsafe drinking water and, of these people, women and girls are disproportionately burdened by poor sanitation and water inequities.
Big bold movements towards a better way of living for so many people.
How The Dots Joined Up For Jasmine
But it wasn’t always plan sailing, and as she says openly “Over the past few years, I have struggled to find my place in the fight for social justice.
I have always been angered by unfairness and injustices and, in the back of my mind, I thought that I would evolve into a radical and fearless protesting activist; however, when the time came for me to consciously take strides in defining my role in this space, I was paralyzed by fear and, quite frankly, embarrassment.”
She was trapped by smallness of thinking, and smallness of actions.
But unlike so many people she found her way through the issues and now is becoming more of who she was born to be.
She is an activist, a campaigner, and lady who loves to inspire and be inspired by a world that so many of us ignore on a daily basis.
So how did she first come up with the design, and knew it was good enough to persist with even when the obstacles came her way?
And looking back, was there a key moment that allowed her to stop acting small, and become the biggest version of herself she could be?
Well lets find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Jasmine Burton
Show Highlights
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Jasmine Burton such as:
Why the ability to connect with people on a human level is so powerful to create success in ones life.
How the creativity that she felt as a very small girl doodling, and drawing whilst laying on the floor has become the key to what lights her up inside as an adult.
Why she realised that she didn’t want to be someone that was going to be adding to the refill sites of the world, and had to design something that would be evergreen.
And lastly….
How she battles everyday with the concerns that her actions are not enough. There are millions of people that need her help and is she making a big enough difference.
How To Connect With Jasmine Burton
Return To The Top Of Jasmine Burton
You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here – enjoy
Full Transcription Of Jasmine Burton Interview
Intro [0:00]
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK, David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:26]
Yes, hello there, everybody, and welcome to Join Up Dots. This is Episode 503. I’m David Ralph. And one of the brilliant things about this show is I never know where I’m going. So I was sitting here ready to record with today’s guests thinking that she was in America, and she threw a curveball at me and she’s in Africa. So we’re going to touch on how she’s moved from bat of and what she’s doing. And it’s gonna be a good show today because she is somebody but I suppose he’s tackling something that so many people would have ignored or left for someone else to do. She’s tackling the world. water and sanitation issues. Yeah. In 2014, her senior design team won the Georgia Tech InVenture Prize competition, the largest undergraduate invention competition in the United States. But their design of an inexpensive mobile toilet called savvy to now alongside a team at which while she’s taken her specific design passion, and set out to improve women’s health by means of redesigning wash infrastructure, such as toilets and menstrual hygiene products in and for the low income communities of the world, as according to UNICEF, 2.6 billion people lack hygienic sanitation facilities. And 768 million people drink unsafe drinking water and of these people, women and girls are disproportionately burdened by poor sanitation and water inequities now, big bold movements towards a better way of living for so many people but it wasn’t always plain sailing. And as she says openly over the past few years, I’ve struggled to find my place in the fight for social justice. I’ve always been anchored by unfairness and in justices. And in the back of my mind, I thought that I would evolve into a radical and fearless protecting activist. However, when the time came for me to consciously take strides in defining my role in this space, I was paralysed by fear, and quite frankly, embarrassment. She was trapped by smallness of thinking and smallness of actions. But unlike so many people, she found her way through the issues and now he’s becoming more and more of who she was born to be. She’s an activist, a campaigner, a lady who loves to inspire and be inspired by a weld, but so many of us ignore on a daily basis. So how did she first come up with a design and knew it was good enough to persist with, even when the obstacles came her way? And looking back? Was there a key moment that allowed her to stop acting small and become the biggest version of herself? She could be? Well, let’s find out as we bring them to the show to start joining up dogs with the one and only Jasmine Burton. How are you Jasmine?
Jasmine Burton [2:55]
I’m great. How are you? Thank you so much for that great introduction.
David Ralph [2:59]
He’s little Lovely to have you here because it’s been a long fight to get you on the show last time. He wasn’t Uh, well, Bonnie and you sort of had to sort of cry off so how are you feeling now? Are you fit raring to go?
Unknown Speaker [3:11]
I am. I’m ready to ready to go.
David Ralph [3:15]
So where are you ready to go in at the moment cuz I touched on it, but you’re in Africa, which kind of surprised me. whereabouts are you? What are you looking at at the moment? And how can we get there quickly so that we can join up with you and fight for social justice?
Jasmine Burton [3:31]
Definitely. So I currently live in Lusaka, Zambia, which is in southern Africa, and I’m here as a part of a Global Health Corps fellowship, which is basically a fellowship that brings young professionals under the age of 30 and places them with with national counterparts that they work with in the social justice and health equity organisations. So for me I have a co fellow who Zambian that I work with on a daily Have a basis and we work in a Reproductive Health Organisation here in Zambia. And simultaneously I’m also working on wish for wash which is the social startup where we’re developing and testing toilets here. So it’s been really exciting and I enjoy all of this all these learnings that the field has to offer
David Ralph [4:17]
us amazing stuff that what you’re doing even that your skype now I’m, I’m a collector of Skype logos. Whenever I connect with somebody generally is over Skype and there’s always a little slogan and it’s normally inspirational. And it’s motivational and your says toilets with an exclamation mark. when when when you walk into personal when you’re sitting on the toilet, doing your business, do you come and go car this is my business as well. This is kind of a weird life I’ve created.
Jasmine Burton [4:44]
Yes, I mean, it’s definitely something that you know, going to the bathroom is really kind of an intimate personal experience. But it’s something that every single human being does. And I do think that a lot of you know cultures have made it into this religion. taboo subject. But it’s important that you know, we normalise this conversation we make it a connecting point that connects people from all cultures from all walks of life because it is something that everyone has experience or continues to experience or you know, it’s a connecting point. And I think that that to me once you realise that it really helps with conversations surrounding health issues surrounding uptake of new technologies. Just normalising that conversation is so important.
David Ralph [5:28]
I know numerous connection points across the globe, isn’t it when you start travelling, I always notice that as a man, I can go into any bar and as long as I talk about soccer, we we connect main connect in that way. Are you sort of aware as you’ve been travelling the globe how sort of similar we are okay, we might have different kind of skins, we might have different languages, but generally we’re the same people with the same struggles going on.
Jasmine Burton [5:54]
I mean, I definitely seen evidence that there are a lot of people that are experiencing the same struggles that just kind of are evidenced in different ways throughout their life. So yes, I do. I do think that you know, this common human experience is humaneness that I kind of talked about is something that I’ve become very attuned to. So I kind of, as soon as I meet people from different cultures, even if we don’t speak the same language, even if we don’t look similarly, if we don’t believe in the same thing, try to find that connecting that humanist point so that we can get on the same level of understanding so that once we start talking about things like health once we start talking about things like sanitation, we have this baseline understanding that even though we’re very different in a lot of ways, we are very similar in a lot of ways too.
David Ralph [6:40]
And do you think that is a sort of stepping stone for business success being out to find that that bridge to cross as quickly as possible so you make those connections?
Jasmine Burton [6:52]
I mean, I definitely think that as I’ve kind of grown in the space and you know, my passion for toilets has kind of blown More into social entrepreneurship. I do think that that yes, in business it does require some sense of understanding and ability to communicate with people from different sectors and different backgrounds. From my limited experience, I’ve realised, you know, people in manufacturing world have their own way of talking and seeing the world and the way the people that are living in the field have their own way of talking and seeing the world and being able to connect with both sets of people and also being able to bridge those sets of people so that we can all work together and creating sustainable solutions is really important. So yes, I definitely think that this sort of understanding of this common humaneness is really crucial to business success.
David Ralph [7:40]
Okay, so in Join Up Dots, we like to take you back and forth. And I can only imagine and you can be happy to bash this back at me. But there was a time growing up. But the last thing that you were thinking about was toilets. What What was the kind of that little Jasmine’s dream what what were you aiming for when you was a very small girl
Jasmine Burton [8:01]
So I, I’ve always been a creative I, my degree is in product design from Georgia Tech. I was, you know, I did art throughout school through elementary school in high school and middle school. So I always saw myself being a creative professional as a young girl, like I wanted to move to New York, I wanted to, you know, have socially oriented paintings. And I wanted to have a museum and this was kind of my vision for myself. And, you know, kind of as I became older and as I learned more about the design world, and you know, as like a as a branch out of the just the artistic world, I kind of learned that design is a really great field in terms of using creative skills and understandings and perspectives to serve the world. Right. So design essentially, in my perspective is a way to improve you know, the human condition whether that’s through a new iPhone or whether that’s through an improved toilet In a community that has never had one, we’re really trying to progress society. And you know, I think there’s so much potential that design has and ever since I was little I’ve always saw myself as some someone that was doing something creative. I just didn’t see design as that avenue until I went to college.
David Ralph [9:17]
So well you want your girl sort of laying on the floor with your leg swinging behind you drawing and, and making little doodles was that how your creativity first started coming out?
Jasmine Burton [9:28]
Yes, I mean, I was definitely you know, always doodling still am I always I like visualising things, draw out notes, some graphic communication, I think is a lot easier in terms of communicating with people in different cultures and just getting your ideas out. Sometimes words are too limiting. And so I think, yes, I’ve always been someone who doodles and I think that that is where it started. And you know, my parents started seeing me moving down this path. I explored you know, architecture for a while as like a form of creativity and to be A creative professional. But then ultimately I moved into into product design as my as my means to being a creative person that, you know, hopefully has some positive impact in the world.
David Ralph [10:10]
He’s fascinating. You know, I have these conversations every single day and I almost know what the answer is going to be. Because when you find your thing as an adult, it is absolutely linked to what you love doing as a small child. You know, we’ve got a strap line that connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. And if you take away the, the search for money, responsibility, status, kudos and all that and just go for the thing that you love doing more often than not, it’s linked to where the success was born. It’s amazing, isn’t it?
Jasmine Burton [10:42]
Yes, definitely. I mean, I think I think that, you know, there’s there’s a lot of people who, you know, think that you can’t necessarily follow what you love to do or find a way to live off of what what you love to do. But I do think that you know, if you continue following it, there are ways That the the universe kind of makes it so that you can live and have a successful life based on what you love to do. And that will ultimately yield, you know, positive results for society. Because if you love what you’re doing, then you’re going to do it to the best of your ability, which will ultimately help. You know, the world as a whole.
David Ralph [11:16]
I loved it. When you said the word the universe, you kind of smiled because there is a kind of people don’t like to say that it’s a kind of woowoo statement, but it is kind of true, isn’t it? It’s totally true. But I picked up on that sort of almost smile in the chat over. Yeah, once you start going for it and really going for it things naturally come your way that you can’t quite explain. So we say the universe has set it up. But of course, it’s cause and effect. You’ve put yourself in that position. You’ve made enough ripples and those ripples once they hit the side of the pole. They’re gonna start coming back to you and that’s when you start building your momentum, I suppose.
Jasmine Burton [11:51]
Yes, yes, I would definitely agree with that.
David Ralph [11:54]
That was a good statement. One they almost sounded like I knew what I was talking about there. Jasmine.
Jasmine Burton [11:59]
Ah, No, that was great. I it was a great visualisation. So I appreciate it that
David Ralph [12:04]
down below the fold. I don’t know what I’m saying. So when when you sort of go back and we, you create this design, was it part of a school project? Was it part of a university project? Was it something that you’ve thought of beforehand? And then if I ever get into a design competition, this is what I’m going to do. How did the sort of the design for the the first prototype toilet come about?
Jasmine Burton [12:28]
Definitely. So I, you know, going into college, I kind of just said, You know, I had this vision that I want to do something creative. I was just learning about design. I wasn’t totally convinced. I thought I wanted to do architecture. And then I ultimately decided industrial design, you know, was cool, you could draw things. It was a lot like art. So I was like, I’m just gonna stick with this. But then kind of through my curriculum, I was starting to learn about a lot of product design realities, where you know, if you are designing really cool chairs, You know, that are trendy for 2016. And several years when trends change, a lot of these chairs that still exists won’t be used. And you have to design things for, you know, being, you know, deposited in a landfill or something. And so for me, that was kind of the first time I thought, like, wow, like, you know, there’s a lot of things that are more or less purposeless, that, you know, I don’t necessarily want to be a part of that I don’t necessarily want to be a part of building, you know, trash, more trash for the world. So that’s kind of when I started having this moment where I was like, okay, like, I want to build things. I want to create things for humanity, how do I do that and still be a designer. So I started looking into social impact design. And then I went to a conference where I heard a Georgia Tech alumni talking about how you know, half the world doesn’t have access to toilets. And this specifically hinders women and girls from pursuing higher education and advanced careers. And for me, I was like, this is this is it like this is the moment where I’m realising like, this is what I think should be doing. I was 18. And I, you know, attended this conference I called my mom, I was like crying. I was like, I know what I’m supposed to do like I’m going to design toilet, which obviously is a very strange realisation.
David Ralph [14:15]
So what did your mom say? Yeah, you’re phoning up, you’re crying and you’re going toilets, toilets. It’s my future. Did she sort of look at you in a strange way as it was, as you were going through?
Jasmine Burton [14:27]
I mean, I definitely think at first it was kind of thought that way from people in my immediate reality, my friends, family, they were all kind of like, oh, like, that’s interesting. You know, like, we support you, but you know, we’ll see what that really actually means later. But it didn’t really, you know, come into fruition as like a real possibility for something that I could do with my life until 2013. When I was entering a class and interdisciplinary engineering and design class where we had to work in teams to create products and then present at this final end of the semester Capstone. And I was like, this is a great opportunity for me to work on toilets. And so I started calling some organisations. I called an organisation called stay innovation. They they’re basically they focus on waste treatment primarily. They do sanitation as a service. They work primarily in Kenya. But their novelty is a lot in transforming human waste into briquettes for cooking for energy for fuel for all of these things. So they’re already doing a lot of really cool work. And I was like, I might as well like reach out to them. It ended up being they sponsored our project. And so that was kind of how the first prototype of the toilet was born. It was me, two engineers, another industrial designer and innovation and we were working on this class project. We had no idea that it was going to be more than just a class project. I just thought it would be a great opportunity to experience something new, especially something related to toilets, and then you know, it turned into something so much greater
David Ralph [16:00]
Well, what you did, and it was a couple of golden nuggets that jumped out there was number one, I suppose you looked at something that was going to be evergreen, you didn’t want to fill up the, the landfill sites of the world, something that was going to be out of date within a couple of years. And that is a real big thing. That is one of the reasons why Jasmine, I decided to go into podcasting because I knew that as long as I was going to do it, the content was going to be out there live, and people would listen to it. And I get a lot of emails from people say, Oh, I’d never heard of your show before. And I just stumbled across Episode 10. And now I’ve listened to eight or nine shows. So evergreen is the way forward which is a great sort of bonus. But I just want to go back to that moment that you say to your family, this is what I want to do. And they supported you. Now that was a gift wasn’t it? Because so often we find that the dreams that we have will be squashed before I even get a chance to get going. What you’re gonna do that, oh, somebody else must have been vented that oh Ready? You know, there’s no point in doing it. Are your family always supportive? Right back? Did they support you? Or did they support the dream? How did that come about? But you were allowed to flourish?
Jasmine Burton [17:12]
Definitely. I mean, I think you’re 100% correct. I would not be where I am today without my family. There are like my rock, they inspire me and they continue pushing me to be my best self. And I think that that is that is such a blessing and in terms of helping me realise, like, what I’m, what the end goal is, what am I actually contributing? How can I contribute in the best way that I physically can? And yeah, I mean, it’s been throughout, you know, since day one since that phone call until now, you know, living here in Africa, like it’s been challenging for them, but it’s definitely you know, they’re like, this is something that you were meant to do. So we’re going to support you and always possible. You know, we had a crowdfunding campaign last year for the toilet project, and You know, they’re they’ve been incredibly helpful in terms of, you know, getting the word out in terms of helping with just Atlanta resources, getting all the perks together to give out to the people who donated. So yeah, my my family’s incredible. And so I think that is such a huge part of the success that I’ve been able to achieve. And just in general, people who have these big dreams, like having these incredible communities of support really does make a difference.
David Ralph [18:25]
Well, absolutely. And when I was doing my virtual stalking of you, some people say to research but I dig around and I find things and I saw the talk that I took the words or but you know, you were paralysed by fear, and quite frankly, embarrassment. So is it as simple to say that you really needed your family and your friends to push through because within you, you didn’t believe as much as they believed?
Jasmine Burton [18:52]
I mean, I do I do agree with that. It’s it’s challenging. I think working in this field and, you know, being someone who is a social justice advocate like it, there are a lot of nuances that I’m learning about what that means and how that relates to, you know, politics and how that relates to people who don’t necessarily agree with a lot of the things that I agree with. And dealing with that adversity has been very challenging. But it’s definitely part of, you know, part of the nature of this work and kind of developing a thicker skin and developing, you know, stronger messages or honing my vision and my story so that it makes more sense to more people is really been a part of the process that I’ve experienced a lot this year. And I think, you know, having that resilient spirit is a huge part has to do with my family and friends.
David Ralph [19:43]
And so do you care when you’re battling against people that don’t have the same viewpoint as yourself? Do you care but buy don’t buy into what you’re saying, or do you just go Okay, we’ll agree to disagree and move on, because I was having a discussion with a guy over it. No. And he said, you know, we always worry about what other people think. And I said to him, I don’t I never care about that, because I just say what I feel, and hopefully it lands, right. And generally, if you feel from your heart, it’s the right thing more often than not, it does land the right way, whether that person agrees with it or not. So getting that fixed skin, has that been difficult when somebody says now, Jasmine, that’s a load of old rubbish. I don’t buy into that. But you really, really want it big time. How have you overcome that?
Jasmine Burton [20:30]
I mean, I definitely I definitely do think it’s been it’s been challenging. But I think the way that I’ve kind of learned how to navigate you know, people who have opposing views or people who have, you know, negative opinions about what the work that we’re we’re trying to do. I think it’s just, you know, kind of going back to an old like saying like actions speak louder than louder than words. So, you know, instead of trying to go into this combative conversation that may or may not go anywhere. Just really, you know, being like, okay, like I respect you, like you are entitled to your own opinion, you’re entitled to your own views, but I’m going to continue doing the work that I’m doing and I want to produce results. And whether that means, you know, like positive results, like, Okay, everybody loves this toilet, we can start scaling. Or if it’s, you know, more or less, you know, what society calls negative results, meaning that the toilet that we have right now doesn’t work exactly the way that we think it works, or all these things. So more or less, you know, learning from failures so that we can continue iterating continue pushing and you know, actually living that resilience is, is I think, more powerful than than entering into competitive conversations with people that don’t see eye to eye with what we’re doing.
David Ralph [21:42]
Have you had anyone that said to you, Jasmine, Jasmine, a load of old rubbish, don’t buy it, buy into it at all. And then once I’ve seen the success and momentum, they’ve come down to you and go, Oh, it’s a greatest idea ever. Oh, I support you. Have you had any of these turncoats?
Jasmine Burton [21:57]
I mean, there Yes. I mean, I definitely do. There are people who have kind of been swayed persuaded to see differently based on just the actions that that we’re taking. And, you know, I mean, I think that that’s powerful in itself to kind of have new advocates for the, for the work and just for the mission and I think just overall like, entering into these sort of spaces where these conversations are happening around me or with me where you know, you have a, you have an opportunity to be an advocate for a greater cause that, you know, may or may not be polarising to certain people. I think that for me that that’s, you know, it, it’s, it’s an important part of this work. It’s not just Hey, we’re designing toilets for people that don’t necessarily have them. We’re working with communities that you know, don’t necessarily have a voice in this sort of work. But it’s also a matter of creating awareness starting a conversation, normalising a conversation, so that you know, at some point when more people are on board and there’s more people that are taking action towards this great problem, you know, things will start to be done. And I think that that’s like, for me the greater vision of this work, it’s not just me and just this toilet team or just this toilet, it’s, we want to get more people aware and talking about this so that we can create a greater movement towards health equity and improve sanitation around the world.
David Ralph [23:18]
Now I can hear the passion coming out. It’s a great movement. And these are the words that are really sort of tying to the next stage of our conversation. So I’m gonna play him again, Jim Carrey.
Unknown Speaker [23:28]
My father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.
David Ralph [23:55]
Now, that’s my own little movement. I play that every day because for me, it just touches something inside me, how does it make you feel when you listen to those words, but really, we should get out to the world?
Jasmine Burton [24:07]
Oh, yeah, I definitely I’ve never heard that before. So that that was actually really, really cool and really inspiring because I do think especially coming from like a stem institution where a lot of people are very meticulous about how they plan their life and what they see how they define success, and you know, how much money success means and all these things kind of coming out of that, like I graduated a year ago. And so that’s still a topic of a lot of conversations with my peers. And so I do think, for me, it’s really important to stay true to what I believe is right and how I, you know, see my myself and what success looks like for me and yeah, taking a risk and realising that, you know, if it’s not going to work out at least I did everything that I could and I can look back and say, you know, I tried my best and I did everything that I could possibly do to help in this, this process and even if it only touched me One person’s life, like, that’s one more person. And so having that message and just hearing those words, like it’s better to try than to just, you know, go back because of fear because you don’t want to take that risk and, you know, go into more of a traditional job traditional lifestyle, because it’s easier. Um, if that’s not what you’re passionate about, like don’t mess with it, you don’t necessarily have to conform your life around what you think you should do.
David Ralph [25:27]
Now, obviously, you bind to those words like I do 100% because we’ve kind of moved down a path we become a different version than the person that we were maybe two or three years ago. Now, that person who was thinking small and was trapped and paralysed because I’m really fascinated by how you’ve transitioned from that to where you are today because that is the bit that holds so many of our listeners back now, if I played back to that that person do you think that would have terrified you, but you would be thinking yet Yeah, I know. You’re right. I know you’re right. But oh my god, I don’t think I’ve got an image
Jasmine Burton [26:02]
He yes, I do think that, you know, kind of when I became really, really sure that this was what I was interested in doing, just taking that step of actually doing it was, I think the most paralysing because you realise, like, you know, something that people say like, once you get into, like a higher education once the more things that you learn, the more that you realise that you don’t know. And so I think that was kind of my reality where I opened this door, and I was like, wow, there’s all these, you know, global problems. There’s a lot of need for, you know, improved design and social impact work. And I really would love to be a part of that. But I don’t know enough. I’m not old enough. I’m not qualified enough. I don’t know that things that I should know, to do it and I can’t do it. And that’s where I was. And it was really hard. And I mean, it’s still something that I think about when you go into meetings and you’re, you know, like the youngest person in the room or you know, and you You know, you don’t have many years of business expertise, but you’re trying to run like this cross cross sector design collaborative work with people in Zambia and in the US, like, it’s a day to day struggle, but it’s definitely something where it’s like, once you take that first step, you know, it’s it’s the next step and the next step. And then once you get into this momentum, and you’re going down this path, it’s a lot easier to kind of silence those voices that are saying, you’re not good enough, you can’t do it, you can’t make a difference. You’re just one person. Because even if you make a small difference like that small differences enough.
David Ralph [27:33]
I think he’s brilliant. When you look back at your journey, the amount of times and I’m still doing it now I’ve got very successful showing is it’s rocking and rolling, and people are coming to me, looking for my advice and my experience, and I’m still finding things on a daily basis where I look at it. Oh, how did I miss that? That is so obvious, but when there’s so many things that you need to do, you do drop the ball, and as long as you pick up that ball later on, that’s as good as you can. They get, and that’s what you’re talking about. You’re talking about going into situations where every time you have to grow a little bit, and there’s gonna be times when you’ve got no answers. So you just make them up. Sometimes you will make them up. And as you’re actually saying them, you think to yourself, oh, my God, I never thought that before. But I think that’s right. I think that’s right. That’s how success is made, isn’t it? It’s the trial and error, and there’s no blueprint for success. You just have to get out there and start writing that book yourself.
Jasmine Burton [28:27]
Right, exactly. And I think, you know, ultimately, for me, one of my greatest mentors in college, her name is Billy and she constantly said, you know, it’s, it’s not about success. It’s about striving for significance. And I think it is, it’s something that I try to remind myself every day because success is so finite successes like this one job or this one salary or this one, you know viewpoint of what life is supposed to look like and that will make me successful, whereas significance is the journey. significance is the path and the people That you touch while you’re trying to figure out what you’re doing. And you know, if it’s only one person, at least it’s one more person. And so I think for me, like, that’s a constant thing that I have to remind myself, it’s not the end, it’s the journey that makes makes the difference.
David Ralph [29:14]
Now, obviously, what you’re doing is gonna have a global impact. And I’m sure it’s having a global impact at the moment. But at the base level, you’ve got bills to pay, you’ve got to support yourself, how do you actually do that at the beginning, when you are trying to create a movement, you don’t want to starve yourself, but I think that would frighten so many people entering what you’ve done.
Jasmine Burton [29:38]
I totally agree. And as you know, as much as my communities of support are very encouraging of my passion. I do come from a very pragmatic, like, school system and friends and family and so people are always like, Okay, how are you going to pay your bills? How are you going to eat? And these are very real questions that I think, you know, keep me in In reality, and for me, the way that I’ve kind of bounced it is just ensuring that I, you know, I have a day job as well as what we’re what I’m doing a wish for wash. So right now I’m working at this Reproductive Health Organisation. Another thing that I do is, you know, I got a degree in product design, but I’ve transitioned a lot of those learnings into graphic design. So I do a lot of freelance work that helps as well. And for people who are interested in you know, starting a movement or starting an organisation and they’re really worried about finances, I really encourage people to consider getting some sort of hard skill that can help with the payments. So if that means writing, that means coding if that means building websites, doing graphic design, doing something that you can have a freelance job that will help support your you as you start transitioning through this movement or this organisation that you’re starting. And so I do I’m a really big advocate for, you know, having some sort of some sort of heart skills that can help in this process.
David Ralph [31:02]
And with the internet, they are transferable, so much easier on the fact that you’re in Africa now, and you can do freelance work for anyone across the globe. It is an opportunity, but you can’t underestimate it. But we have got the ability now to create our economy so much easier as long as we start connecting with people.
Jasmine Burton [31:22]
Yes, yes, I 100% agree. It’s, it’s, it’s just about, you know, having some, I think a holistic plan. So it’s like, you know, if you, you know, that you’re not going to be making revenue from your movement or from the organisation you’re starting, because you’re still in the startup phase. And perhaps you need some of your own capital to start as well. kind of figuring out what you know, how you can add value based on the skills and the learnings that you have in another capacity, you know, whether that’s, you know, freelancing online or whether that’s, you know, volunteer or working at like a hospital or finding some way like everybody, I believe, has some sort of way to add value and find it Way to finance their life. And so it’s just a matter of aligning those two and then making it work.
David Ralph [32:04]
And that’s the fun thing, isn’t it? When you find your personal value, the thing that you can do really easily, that is the true value to the world, just because you can do it easily. There’s somebody out there that might struggle with it and is willing to pay. I used to have a big problem at the beginning, charging or hiring anyone I used to be, I could just do it quicker. What’s the point? And I went through a phase of hiring this lady just because one of the guests that made you realise by you, being reluctant to hire someone, you are not giving that lady a chance to change her life, and it’s a totally different spin on it. But there’s a lady on the other side that wants the opportunity to, you know, support her own family or whatever. And by me handing something over but she can do very easily. It was sort of life changing. And when you think on that sort of granular sort of size of it all it is really amazing how the world is connected. Every single one of us make such a small difference. It doesn’t have to be a movement, but just providing value or a service to someone can change the world. Yes,
Jasmine Burton [33:08]
yes, exactly. And I do think that that’s something that I’ve learned as well. And something that I think is really important and is a huge part of what we’re doing with with wish for wash. A lot of the people that you know, are a part of our team, our current Georgia Tech students who may or may not have the qualifications to have their dream internship because their first years or second years, but they have a lot of great skills like they’re these engineers and the business people that know a lot of things but they just haven’t had a chance to try it in the real world. And so giving these these students like a voice and empowering them to actually try things that can be applied and tested in the real world is really cool. And I think that that’s something that I have learned to love so much about our team right now is like, you know, kind of what you were saying like it some some things are easier for me to just be like, I can do that and it’ll be done or I can give it to someone else. And watch them grow and kind of see them realise their true potential. And that’s a really cool thing.
David Ralph [34:06]
Do you do you think you have actually created a movement at the moment? Is it something that is sort of growing on its own because there’s a brilliant TED talk, I don’t know if you’ve seen it, and a man talks about how to create a movement. And there’s a hill, and it’s a it’s a concert or something. And there’s some kind of gathering going on. And he gets this one guy to just start dancing, and he’s got no shirt on, he just gets up and he starts dancing on his own. And everybody sort of looks around at him and thinks, what’s he doing? He’s a bit of a lunatic. And then somebody else sort of gets up and starts dancing as well. And then it gets about three people and then people start looking over it and thinking to themselves, hang on, there’s something going on there. Maybe I should be part of her. And they start sort of joining and he was saying that the true ease of creating a movement is not the first person’s passion. It’s like the Third Person person because when people don’t want to be missing out how quickly do You get to the point when you thought yeah, this is something that’s starting to grow with out my influence.
Jasmine Burton [35:07]
Um, yeah, that is that’s a great question. I mean, I think
you know, it’s that’s something that I, I’ve been very intentional about this year, making it so wishy washy is more than just me there’s more people represented in the organisation, there’s more people that go to events, there’s more people that have a say, and can determine if you know, that’s the right decision or not, because I do want it to be bigger than me. And I think the point when I realised the potential that you know, we can make in other people’s lives, who are just a part of our team was, I think a year ago when we had just mounted wish for wash. It was now like the social like startup kind of thing that was housing the toilet. And, you know, we had all these students at Georgia Tech who were like, you know, I don’t have you know, I’m not I don’t need to be paid but I would like to be a part of this like, I would love to To help, you know, rebuild a website, I would love to help like help come up with manufacturing strategies, I would love to help with the finances and balancing the, you know, what, what the costs are in the expenses and everything. And I think once I saw that people were interested in getting involved without me having to, you know, pay them or incentivize them in any sort of way, I realised that there was a lot of value in just having people contribute in whatever way that they could and learning from the interdisciplinary social impact experience so that they could see some sort of future in this type of work, whether that’s related to sanitation, or just humanitarian work in general. So yeah, I think a year ago is when I started realising, you know, this needs to be greater than me like I don’t need to be the only person that’s speaking at events that is making the key decisions. And so that’s when I really started intentionally bringing on other people and empowering them to have a voice in the way that we’re moving about this this process.
David Ralph [36:56]
I suppose a question that we haven’t covered and is a very important question. is I think most of the listeners will have a knowledge of toilets and basically you put stuff in it and then you It takes it away. That’s that’s its service. How is yours different man? Why have you needed to create a different type of toilet?
Jasmine Burton [37:17]
Um, yeah, so I guess one of the biggest problems in terms of sanitation right now is so you know, almost half the world doesn’t have access to a toilet. And so what a lot of people have to use is a hole in the ground. And the issues with that is that hole can grow in size so people can fall in which can cause a lot, a lot of health problems, safety problems, or they can overflow which again, can cause health problems and safety problems. And they’re not, there’s not a really good way of sustainably managing the holes in the ground and a lot of situations just because there’s no real sense of who’s in charge of it or if there is a landlord that is in charge of it, perhaps the incentive models for like, you know how expensive it is to clean that pit might not be there. And so maybe he doesn’t have any incentive to clean that pit and so he doesn’t and then there’s no pit for people to use. In which case people resort resort to open defecation, or going to the bathroom in public. A lot of times that can mean just a straight on the ground or it can mean going in like a beer can or going in like a, like a shopping bag and then throwing that and that’s called a flying toilet. So I think part of the issue with the people that don’t have access to toilets is there is no connected sewage system system. And a lot of these situations, there’s no systematic way of dealing with human waste and it’s getting into water, it’s getting into food and it’s really hurting people in terms of their livelihood and their health. So the toilet that we have which is ever iterating but right now, it is a container based solution. So which means that it collects waste. And we’re partnering with an organisation that is specialised in collecting waste. And they are usually the ones that are hired to clean out a lot of these pits in the ground. And so what we’re really focusing on from, from a design perspective is how can we improve the user experience? How can we improve the the people who are actually using the toilet? How can we make it so they feel empowered and dignified to go to the bathroom and not you know, going to the bathroom on this, you know, hole in the ground that’s overflowing that they might fall into, they might not feel safe, they, depending on their ability, they might not be able to squat all the way. So there’s a lot of issues in terms of empowerment that we’re trying to address as well as just user uptake. So how can we encourage people who have never used the toilet to want to use a toilet, and then the user experience in terms of actual waste removal? So if we can contain the waste in the way that it’s collected, when someone is servicing it? Will that make it easier for them to do their job so that they don’t have to actually come in contact? tact with the waist, which is what they have to do now and that’s pretty disgusting. So overall, I mean, I think in the Western world, we have a, you know, a different perspective of what sanitation looks like because we have like really, really well designed sewage systems that, you know, get waste away from us and then we don’t really have to think about it. But in a lot of these realities, you know, waste doesn’t get removed, it’s there and it’s very present and it’s a really a big indicator of how health and livelihood is, throughout the community.
David Ralph [40:33]
Now you grew up in America, okay, so your Western Well, from what you were saying to me, it just sounded horrific. I could go on a big pit but I might be falling into and carrier bags flying over my head as I’m walking. It just sounds dreadful. Does it qualify you or are you kind of past that now? Are you just gone? If this is what it is, and you know, this is what we’re dealing with?
Jasmine Burton [40:55]
Um, I mean, yes. I think my my threshold for I guess level of disgust is kind of increased. So I’m not like completely disgusted about you know, as you’re seeing poop and you know, seeing people deal with poop, but like, there are certain situations where we go and we look at pits that are like severely overflowing and then there’s like maggots, and there’s all this stuff. And it’s so disgusting. And you’re like, standing there thinking, how, how is this a reality? It’s, it’s 2016. You know, we have like, all these incredible technological advances. Everyone has a cell phone almost in the world. Everyone is trying to be connected to the internet, like these are big, high level goals for humanity. But this basic level of sanitation is still a huge problem. And so I mean, with that understanding, a lot of the work that we do and a lot of other sanitation organisations, they really focus on the value like how do you how do you make someone value something that they’ve never cared about? Or how do you prove the health benefits of something that is You know, like with toilets with poop, like you can’t necessarily show someone like, this is going to make you sick, if this gets into your water, so there’s a lot of like behavioural change models that are being tested, that will help in terms of having people at least value sanitation who currently don’t. And that will ultimately help in terms of innovation. And I think with innovation within the communities to like I, you know, a lot of these communities are so well capacitated, they, they’re interested in building, they’re interested in improving their livelihood, but they just, you know, don’t necessarily see this as the way to do it. They don’t necessarily see sanitation or toilets as you know, something that’s valuable. And so it’s like, how do you make that value connection and that’s, that’s the challenging part of the work, I think, is the social side.
David Ralph [42:45]
I had to correct a teammate of several of my listeners eating their lunch while listening to this podcast and just sliding their food away because it is one of those things that you don’t want to think about it. Do you just kind of as you say, right, the very beginning you go in you Do you do what you need to do? And you you sort of come out, you know, big credit to Jasmine really, because you aren’t doing something that I think so many people would walk away from. Or maybe it’s the people that I’m surrounded by, we’re very much into trying to create a clean movement, if that makes sense, trying to inspire people trying to drive people to a greater life, but not actually getting our hands dirty, and you’re really sort of getting in there on you.
Jasmine Burton [43:26]
I mean, it’s really been it’s definitely challenging for sure. And I know that it is really disgusting. And I know. Yeah, I mean, it is a lot and I try and I try and use words that are less graphic to kind of help with, you know, uptake of just hearing this conversation. But it is it’s still hard, you know, going out in the field and like seeing, seeing the reality and I think for me, that’s just such a huge part of this is like seeing people making friends with them, seeing their faces going to their house, eating lunch with them, and then realising like, Oh, you know, now you have to go to the bathroom right next to your house, and this really disgusting hole in the ground, like how, how can we help make you, you know, feel more dignified about this experience, especially for women. There’s a lot of a lot of cultural issues with women and bathrooms and the sense of cleanliness, expectations, and all these things. So, you know, I do think like I am still, I still get horrified by the reality, just because I think, you know, in 2016, we’re like, we’re advancing, but there’s so many things that haven’t yet even begun to advance to where it should be. And so that’s kind of my my kind of call to action is, let’s just start with something let’s let’s start working with people who are doing things and let’s build partnerships so that we can create sustainable change in terms of sanitation.
David Ralph [44:52]
I love talking to you and I find it amazing, but difference in you over the last few years. You know, I’ve never connected With you, but I’ve seen from your, your background, how you have personally changed away from everything. Are you amazed at how you are so different now?
Jasmine Burton [45:12]
Yeah, I mean, I definitely I definitely am I, I think that it’s like a constant, a constant growth process. For me, I mean, it’s, it’s every day I kind of am sitting back thinking like, I don’t know how I’m going to do the things that I need to do in order to get toilets made in order to, you know, get them deployed in order to work with the communities that we need to work with, but I’m going to do my best, whether that means cold emailing people, whether that means showing up at people’s offices, whether that means, you know, contacting as many people as possible to get a manufacturer that can work within our price range, like it is this constant test of resilience. And I do think that just just by being in the space and just by working with the people that I’ve worked with it, it I can feel Feel like I feel stronger. And I feel more equipped with knowledge and capabilities. And in terms of whatever I do, you know, if I stay with sanitation, like, I feel like I know the avenues that I need to know, in order to get better at the things that we’re doing. If one day I transition to another sort of issue that I want to address, I feel like I have the confidence in knowing that, you know, right out of undergrad, I was able to make all these connections, build this team, you know, get them on the ground, get the toilets on the ground, and I had no idea what I was doing. And so that’s, I think, for me is the most exciting empowering part of this work for me is just realising my personal capabilities and realising that even when I do feel like I’m not doing enough, it is enough and it is making a difference. And that’s something that I constantly am trying to remind myself like, even if it’s not this global, sweeping sanitation, you know, and the sanitation crisis in the world, you know, just The amount of work that we’ve done, and the emails that I get from people that are like, you know, keep doing it, like you’re so inspiring, like, keep keep working, keep trying like that, to me is the most rewarding part. It’s like people see that we’re doing the best we can. And we have no idea what we’re doing and it’s yielding some results.
David Ralph [47:16]
Well, let’s play the words now from the man who created the whole theme of the show. And he talks so powerfully about literally not having a clue what you’re doing in life, but just doing stuff going for it. This is Steve Jobs. Of course,
Unknown Speaker [47:28]
it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college, but it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever, because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. That will make all the difference.
David Ralph [48:02]
Well, just before we send you back in time on the Sermon on the mic, the question that always leads from that statement is, what is your big dog when you look back over your journey to where you are now? Was there a moment or a conversation or a situation that literally changed your life and started moving you in the direction you are?
Jasmine Burton [48:24]
I do think that the moment when I was a freshman at Georgia Tech, and I attended the Women’s Leadership Conference, and I met Susan Davis, who is the founder of improve International, she was speaking about the sanitation crisis. And she ended her speech by saying, what are we going to do about it? And for me, that was like, I felt like she was talking to me. I felt like that was my call to you know, do something meaningful with my design degree. And that was the moment where I was like, I’m going to design toilet. I do think that you know, A few years later around, in 2012, I believe, or 2013, I attended a summer public health scholars programme. And that was the first time I’d ever done anything public health related. And I think for me, being surrounded by people from so many different backgrounds and who had so much a vast understanding of the public health needs, not only internationally, but within, within our homes in our communities. That also was like a second aha moment where I realised that you know, it’s not just sanitation, that’s an issue. It’s not just these global grand challenges that we hear about and all these writings like there’s so many so much need for innovation and, and progressive thinking in terms of just health and in society as a whole, whether that’s at home or abroad. And so, that was a second aha moment where I was like, even if, you know, I pivot away from sanitation at one point, like there’s so much need, like, I I was almost overwhelmed with, you know, like, Where do I even start? And so those were kind of two of the big moments where I was like, I’m definitely interested in toilets. And I’m definitely interested in public health.
David Ralph [50:12]
Great stuff. Well, we’re at the end of the show now. And this is the part that we called a sermon on the mic when we send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the young Jasmine, what age would you choose and what advice would you give? Well, we’re gonna find out, I’m gonna play the theme tune and when it fades, you’re up. This is the Sermon on the mic.
Unknown Speaker [50:38]
We go with the best of the show.
Jasmine Burton [50:56]
Okay, so if I could go back in time and I could talk to myself Am I a younger version of myself? I believe that I would go back to high school, my senior year of high school when I thought that I was, you know, going to be an architect that I wanted to one day own my own architecture firm. After several years of experience, I wanted to do green architecture, something good for humanity and being creative. But I thought that it was going to happen at a much later time in my life. To that version of myself, I just want to say that, you know, you’re not you’re not too young to make a difference and you don’t have enough experience you don’t know the things that you quote unquote should know. But that gives you so much value that gives the world so much value and that helps progress in terms of thought in terms of in terms of the way that systems operate. When you have younger people come into the equation Asian with, you know, bright eyes and this vision for a greater world that aren’t necessarily jaded by the way that things have been. And you know, I empower that version of myself and I invert and empower you know, anybody that is in this place where you think that you’re not you don’t know enough and that you’re not qualified enough. If you have that, you know, that passion on your heart like you need to follow it. And you need to do the best that you can do and have a voice and even if it doesn’t yield the results that you hope that it yields. You have impacted somebody you have done the things that you were supposed to do. And ultimately that will yield more success than you could ever imagine.
David Ralph [52:42]
Jasmine, what’s the number one best way that our audience can connect with you?
Jasmine Burton [52:47]
So I am most accessible by email. And that is Jasmine Kay burton@gmail.com.
David Ralph [52:56]
will have over links to all your social media on the show. Jasmine, thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots. Please come back again when you have more dots to join up because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Jasmine Burton, thank you so much.
Jasmine Burton [53:15]
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
David Ralph [53:18]
Now, that was an episode that covers everything. Passion for the task, passion to help the world, a side hustle, overcoming those obstacles at the beginning. And you know, most of us we will start a job we will start a pursuit that’s based around what we can gain. Think about what Jasmine’s doing where she’s starting off thinking, How can I change the world that would have a huge of overwhelm for most of us when we think I can’t change the world is only little old me, what can I do? But of course, all of us can start by doing something and then doing something else. And once you get to that tipping point, and people start noticing then you really can Change the world you can we’ve seen it time and time again. So don’t think any of you out there isn’t the next person to leave your mark on this planet. And when you lay on your deathbed, people will say thank God, but he or she was around because look at their legacy. Thank you so much for listening to Join Up Dots. I’ve really enjoyed that one. I will be here again very, very shortly with another episode. But until then, see ya. Cheers. Bye.
Unknown Speaker [54:28]
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you or wants to become. So he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to Join Up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on Join Up Dots.