Wes Schaeffer Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast
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Introducing Wes Schaeffer
Wes Schaeffer is today’s guest entrepreneur joining us on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots business podcast.
Ready to follow the words of the late Apple founder Wes is based in the entrepreneurial hub of the world San Diego.
Yeah this is where the movers and shakers seem to congregate, and who can blame them.
But it certainly is a well worn path that he has travelled to becoming known as the “Sales Whisperer” focusing on the principles that make people want to buy from us instead of the cold call
As he says “Since 1994 I’ve looked for ways to drive sales, and I’ve learned that selling is easier and more valuable to both the sales person and the client if good marketing makes the client aware of you and then contacts you to buy because none of us likes to be “sold.”
Seems simple and certainly the best way to go about things.
How The Dots Joined Up For Wes
Now back in the early 90’s our guest today, had other things on his mind than making sales become easy.
He was firmly entrenched in the US Airforce and did five years in a job until today I didn’t know existed.
e travelled the world from South Korea to Abu Dhabi sticking his finger into the air trying to figure out the best time to launch aircraft and strike targets not playing nice with the U.S. and our allies.
He was a Wing Weather Officer, and maintained and optimized various unit CRM / Databases to track personnel and equipment for rapid deployment and emergency reaction to Asia and the Middle East.
And this knowledge of databases seems to be one of his first big dots, as he has taken this throughout his career, and now is an Infusionsoft expert, TedX veteran, and podcaster with an unusual talent.
He is still podcasting, and unlike so many that stop after ten or so shows, is now racing towards 200 episodes of his top show “The Sales Podcast”
Added to that he has produced seven kids…even more than me, you know that he is a man at the top of his game to be spinning so many plates at one time.
So what was it about the military that was so attractive to him as a young man?
And is the entrepreneurial route one that he would encourage his kids to go into, unlike many parents that would encourage their offspring to get a job?
Well lets find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Sales Whisperer himself, Mr Wesley Schaeffer.
Show Highlights
During the show we discussed such weighty subjects with Wes Schaeffer such as:
How so many entrepreneurs struggle at the beginning with a “Give It To Me” mentality, although Wes learnt to give his best stuff away for free early.
Why the best way to get through a problem is to lean into it and “Attack, Attack, Attack”
How remembers his fathers advice “That you are only desperate if you think you are” which has helped him massively to build the entrepreneurial mindset.
And lastly…………………
Why bands that have lasted for years, know one key element that so many people forget “Deliver what the customer wants, and you will never be poor again!”
Wes Schaeffer Books
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Full Transcription Of Wes Schaeffer Interview
Intro [0:00]
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK. David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:26]
Yes, hello there, everybody and welcome to Join Up Dots. This is David Ralph coast coming live from the United Kingdom, going into your ears and going into the welds across the house and the homes across the world. I don’t even know what I’m saying. And it is one of those things that excites me every single day. The last time I was talking to a guy. I spent the whole time thinking he was just up the road in London and he turned out to be in Poland. So I’m going to have to find out where this guy is because I believe he is actually based in the entrepreneurial hub of the world or so it seems San Diego yet This is where the movers and shakers seem to congregate, and who can blame them, but it certainly is a well worn path. He’s travelled to becoming known as the sales whisperer, focusing on the principles that make people want to buy from us, instead of the cold call. As he says, since 1994, I’ve looked for ways to drive sales. And I’ve learned that selling is easier and more valuable to both the salesperson and the client. If good marketing makes the client aware of you, and then contacts you to buy, because none of us like to be sold and it seems simple and certainly the best way to go about things. Now back in the early 90s. Our guest today had other things on his mind, but making sales become easy. He was firmly entrenched in the US Air Force, and did five years in a job until today I didn’t know existed. He travelled the world from South Korea to Abu Dhabi sticking his finger into the air, trying to figure out the best time to launch aircraft and strike targets not playing nice with the US and their allies. He was a wing weather officer and maintained an optimised budget various units, CRM databases, to track personnel and equipment for rapid deployment and emergency reaction to Asia and the Middle East GM kind of stuff. And this knowledge of databases seems to be one of these first big dots as he’s taken this throughout his career. And now he’s an Infusionsoft expert TEDx veteran, and podcaster with an unusual talent. He’s still podcasting. And unlike so many that stop after 10 or so shows, he’s now racing towards 200 episodes of his latest show, but sales podcast added to that he’s produced seven kids even more than me, and you know that he’s a man at the top of his game to be spinning so many plates at one time. So what was it about the military that was so attractive to him as a young man, and is the entrepreneurial route one that he would encourage these kids go into? Unlike many parents that would encourage their offspring to get a job? Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up doors with the one and only sales whisperer himself. Mr. Wesley Schaeffer, how are you Wes.
Wes Schaeffer [2:59]
Im good and I didn’t give you any of that info. Where did you get it? You got to stop surfing the web.
David Ralph [3:04]
I’ll tell you what, I stalk I stalk like a man possessed because it’s funny actually, because maybe two years ago when I started this, it was quite difficult to find stuff. But now as we talk about on the show more often than not, it’s becoming Dean thing to be totally transparent sharing your social life story. Kids pictures, your income reports. Do you think that’s a good thing?
Wes Schaeffer [3:29]
Yeah, it’s, um, you know, looking at television, for example, what’s the most popular genre for the last 10 or even 15 years? You know, it’s reality TV. Yeah. People are tired of being lied to. And, and we can handle the truth or I just like a few good men. I want the truth. You know, yes, I can handle it. And so just putting it out there. You know, it’s going to get found out anyway. So why not lay it out there you We should teach our politicians to learn from that, right? If you mess up, just admit it, apologise, and everybody will forget it by dinner. As soon as you try to cover it up, boom, it’ll live forever, that, you know, you were being non transparent, and it’s just never any good.
David Ralph [4:17]
So what we’re saying is as our mums and our Nan’s used to say to us, honesty is the best policy.
Wes Schaeffer [4:24]
Yeah, exactly. And, and the lie is always worse than the crime. You know, I have, you know, with seven kids, we’ve gone through all types of situations, right, who, who spilled the milk? Who broke the window, you know, I mean, you name it. And it’s like, the punishment was always worse if they lied about it, than the actual, you know, sin that they committed. So just own up to it, and we’ll get through it.
David Ralph [4:54]
Your kids and obviously don’t spread the band names, but do they become less dishonest? More dishonest as a sort of get younger because in my group, certainly the first one come along, and we we knew it was fair. It had to be them because they were the only ones bear. And so they pretty much they, they were honest. And now she’s a lawyer. So she’s gone into the most dishonest reputation ever. And then as it goes down the line, they all start blaming the other one. So the one at the bottom, you can’t tell whether she’s telling the truth at all. And she’s becoming the most theatrical, and she’s a great actress because she spends all the time passing the blame. Has that sort of happened in your life? Can you blind them up in sort of age and dishonesty?
Wes Schaeffer [5:38]
No, it’s kind of we have peaks and valleys, you know, going through the different age groups, the youngest is only two so she doesn’t yet know how to be strategic in her lying. But she is very persistent. You know, she’ll come to me for a cookie and I’ll say no, and she’ll go to a mommy and Mommy will say no, and then she’ll just go through the siblings and she will eventually Get a cookie.
David Ralph [6:01]
She knows how to play the system and and you because you know how to play the system as well. It’s not playing the system. It’s doing things the right way. Why are you called the sales whisperer? What’s the whispering about?
Wes Schaeffer [6:15]
You know, I just gave myself the name and pay the US government about $800 and I got the trademark.
David Ralph [6:22]
Sent me it was as simple as that. You just decided so you could have been the South shelter. You could have been anything.
Wes Schaeffer [6:27]
I could have been? Yeah, I was. I was literally watching the dog whisperer. Here in the US. It was September 1 2006. And I always remember it because I see the renewal date, you know, with GoDaddy. Every year and like everybody in technology nowadays, you know, you can’t watch TV alone. You have to have your laptop and you know, now you have to have your laptop, your iPad and your iPhone, so you’re juggling like four screens, counting the TV. I have my laptop on my lap. I was doing a bit of work had the dog whisperer on it. He, he mentioned how he, he trains the owners and rehabilitates the dogs. And I thought, you know, I do that I rehabilitate, salespeople. And I train the sales managers who’ve never really had sales management training. And you know, if you’re, if you watch the show, you’ll notice it’s when the dogs are misbehaving, it’s 100%, the fault of the owner. They’re not setting the right environment, they’re not setting the right boundaries. And so, you know, the inmates run the asylum. And it’s the same in sales. Sales Managers are typically promoted from within. And that just because you’re the best salesperson, doesn’t mean you’re going to be the best sales manager and usually the traits that make you a great salesperson, make you a horrible sales manager. Right being competitive. working alone, things like that. And now all of a sudden you have to work in a team, you have to lift people up, you have to set strict boundaries and ground rules and make sure people hit their numbers. And so I was literally watching the show and he said that, you know, and, and I opened up GoDaddy typed in the sales whisperer calm, it was available, I bought it. And 10 days later, somebody emailed me and said, Hey, I want to buy that name from you. And how much
David Ralph [8:32]
did they offer?
Wes Schaeffer [8:34]
They didn’t offer anything. They was just, you know, will you sell it? And as like, just bought it. I said, What do you have in mind, right, because in sales, the first one to mention the price is typically going to lose or at least you’re negotiating from a position of weakness. So I wanted him to throw out a number he never did. So we went back and forth for a few emails over a couple of days and they just went away, but I knew I was onto something. If somebody else was looking for that name that quickly, and then I built my brand around it. So I
David Ralph [9:06]
said we’ve a brand is I suppose it’s an important question because a lot of people get hung up on these things. Is it better to now the essence of what you’re doing? Or the name? What’s the quickest way for success? Do you think?
Wes Schaeffer [9:20]
Well, when it comes to branding, I think too many people over emphasise building a brand or at least focusing on it. When you’re brand new, you you have nothing right? People don’t know who you are. You’re not Apple, you’re not Dell, you’re not Tesla. So I think you build a brand over time by consistently delivering exceptional service. And so if you focus on that, I mean, literally one foot in front of the other. You’ll build that brand. And so it’s almost like people say, here’s the 17 steps or Create a viral video. Yeah. And it’s like, it doesn’t happen viral videos go viral. Because they’re unique. They’re transparent. You know, they’re open, they’re honest. They strike a nerve, they resonate, because somebody just put it out there. And it was honest. And I’m sure there’s a handful of viral videos that were produced, but it’s the exception, not the norm. And so the same thing, you know, Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, they didn’t get together in that garage and say, let’s build a brand. You know, I said, Let’s build a computer. And then it took off. And then they built a brand
David Ralph [10:37]
is interesting, because I was just having a conversation with a guy and he made the entrepreneurial leap. And he was the episode just before this one. And he was saying when he started it was very much about get get get, and he was almost broke. He was going around saying that I’ve got this, buy it from me buy it from me, let’s make some money. And when he reads But actually by giving a giving a giving, he built that, as you say that brand. That’s when the sales started happening. And as he was speaking, it made me realise I used to be in corporate London for many years, and I was a sales guy. And we used to do the cold calling. And I used to pick up the phone, I was very successful at it. And I find that a lot of those trades have translated very well onto a podcast. But then I still fell into that same trap that he was talking about when I started Join Up Dots, or basically creating products and almost spamming the world saying that it is Come and get it Come and get it. Now, I don’t do any sales at all. They all sort of come to me because all I’m doing is what I’m hopefully good about, and building that loyalty and that trust. And it. It seems so simple somehow, doesn’t it? But when I wrote your introduction, I thought this guy’s nailed it. He’s realised that the way of doing sales is getting them to come to him. First of all too simple but powerful.
Wes Schaeffer [12:01]
Yeah, it’s it’s an easy concept, right? But it’s tough to execute. It’s tough when you get in the business and you need income, right? You need revenue. So what do you do? And I equate it to patting your head and rubbing your stomach. Yeah, you know, you have to do both at the same time and then beginning you have to make those initial sales. So you have to make those cold calls, you’ve got to get out and send the direct mail and run the ads to bring traffic because you’re brand new. But simultaneously, you need to be building up your assets, your resources, the tools you give away, and I always say give away your best stuff for free up front. And so as you give that stuff away, planning guides, mp3 podcasts, whatever people begin to see the value in you accrue this body of work. And it takes time though. And, you know, when I started the sales whisper, it was just me and I picked up the phone. I invited people to a free workshop and then I started charging a little bit like 15 to $20. Because I learned if people paid something, then they would show up on it also. And these were small, these were 15 to 25 person workshops. And but you know, if I charge $20, and that 20 people, that’s $400. And so that gave me money to buy some refreshments. I had a CD produced, I would give them a little five to 10, page workbooks, all that cost money to print. And so just by getting $20 ahead, it enabled me to create a better experience. And so that also increased the upsells or the uptakes, right, because I would give that workshop and then I would push for a private meeting with everyone one on one to see how I’m able to help them moving forward, but by charging a little bit, it gave me the staying power. Right and it gave me a little bit more money. To do a little bit more advertising and marketing, and build things up, while I was on the side, you know, nights and weekends making videos, doing blog posts, making free reports, to begin to augment, you know, my outbound efforts to then make it an inbound effort, but it takes time.
David Ralph [14:21]
Well, it certainly does take time. And I think there’s a mindset for the wannabe entrepreneurs, but they’ve got to replicate their income like they have by doing the job. So basically, they go and do one thing, and then they get paid all their money. When I was talking to a guy the other day, and I was saying to him, you see, this is a monthly membership. This is and he said, What do you mean by this? And I said, Well, if you sell this for like, I don’t know, $20 you probably get 100 people. He said, Yeah, but that doesn’t add up. When it doesn’t add up. That’s like $2,000 $2,000 a month, you know? Anyone? Yeah, yeah, but it seems a lot of effort and when used to what sort of you You know, 14 hours a week for that money and you’re getting, and he couldn’t equate that over $20 build up to something. Did you always have that in your head? But you could go for all the little eggs that add up into the big golden egg? Or did you go for the money yourself at some stage?
Wes Schaeffer [15:19]
Well, a little bit of both. I mean, in the beginning, when I was just doing sales training as the sales whisper the little eggs, right, we’re really just to it was spending money. And it wasn’t it was literally just to make sure people showed up to the event. You know, I was not getting rich. I wasn’t really making any money on those workshops. So but it was a way it was better than paying 200 or 500 or $1,000 to run ads and hope somebody would see it and show up. But really when I absolutely first began, I didn’t have a website. I mean, I had that domain name. But I had never heard of WordPress. There weren’t all these other tools out there. I think Weebly may have just been coming on. So I had a friend in 2007 built a little five page HTML static website for me and Dreamweaver that I couldn’t edit. So even if I ran, if I paid money to run ads, I had nowhere to send people other than just call me direct. So so the little the little money was just to make sure people showed up and then I was going for the clothes on larger sales training package anywhere from 1000 to $7,000, depending on it was an individual if it was a company wanting to train his team, or personal coaching. And then over time, it was 2008. I was using another company’s CRM and automation tool and they were local, and it was a good tool. It was just rudimentary. And I was a follower of Dan Kennedy. And actually, I’m speaking on his super conference stage coming up in May May 1 actually on the bonus day on selling, but he was doing this for city tour with Infusionsoft. And I didn’t really know Infusionsoft. But I want to meet Dan Kennedy. And he was coming to Anaheim, which is about an hour from me. And so I drove out to see him and I heard Infusionsoft. And, you know, I love the concept. I was like, I need that I need the automation was expensive. I bought it anyway and knew where I was going to be heading. And then I learned about their partner programme and their partner programme back then was just a flat 20%. So this is where the little eggs come in. Right? And so I come home and I tell my wife, hey, I can be a partner. They pay 20% she’s like, whoop dee doo, you know, $300 sale, you’re gonna make $60 a month. You know, she’s like, big deal. Well, eight years later, and you sell hundreds and hundreds Have those, you know, my residual income before I get out of bed each month is double, at least you know the average income of an American worker. So basically these little legs,
David Ralph [18:14]
so So are you someone because you went into the military? And now you are firmly entrepreneurial? Are you somebody that likes the routine that the military gave you? Does it make you a better entrepreneur because I’ve spoken to quite a few guys who have gone into the military and they’ve come out ready to rock and roll on their own terms. But the routines and the structure that the military gave him really gave him the basis of doing the due every day and getting up at the right time and finding their thing. Did you find it was a benefit or no? Do you look back and think oh, it held me back a bit.
Wes Schaeffer [18:52]
You know, a little bit of both, but I didn’t know any different. You know, I grew up didn’t really have money. I went into the air force because I could get a free education. And, and having learning the discipline, you know, I don’t know if you like it, right. But you, you certainly like the results. And so you end up in a weird sort of way liking it, you know what I mean? it. I mean, this morning, I got up at 4:45am. And, you know, I had stuff to do, and I get up most days before 5am. And I’ve just learned to embrace that discipline, because I like the results that it produces, but you have to roll that backwards. In order for me to get up that early. I have to go to bed earlier, and to get a good night’s sleep. So I can wake up that early. It means I can’t be pounding a bunch of beers and alcohol every night. You know, maybe maybe one drink maybe two drinks, you know, not five or six. Yeah, and so you got it. You got to work that backwards and then always have time to work out you know, so I’m exercising because you’re Physical Fitness impacts, you know, your ability to think your ability to focus your ability to just stay at it till the job gets done. So, it you know, having that discipline certainly pays off and in my training, you know, I talk about that, you know, the difference between rookies and amateurs are rookies and professionals is the professionals willing to do what it takes for as long as it takes to the job gets done, and they’re willing to stick with a winning formula? Hmm. You know, if you ever look behind the scenes at a concert at a band, right, the people you go to the concert and you think, man, this is so awesome. It just feels like I’m right there with them. It feels like they’re singing to me. And the reality is like I saw the band Chicago a couple years ago, their lead singer Jason chef is a customer he bought my Infusionsoft book. I met him a couple years ago at a conference and gave me tickets and backstage passes and that was awesome. You know, but some of them original band members are in their 70s
David Ralph [21:03]
Oh, really?
Wes Schaeffer [21:04]
Oh, yeah. And, but listening to them, they sound it just like the album. Yeah, okay, but these guys have been singing these songs for over 40 years. Okay, and they’re still singing the same songs the exact same way and they sounded fantastic. That is a professional that can do the same thing over and over. They, they take the time to develop and create a winning formula. And then they stick with it. Okay, and so while it’s cool that they’re still producing some new music, not much anymore, but still, they’re coming out with some new stuff. So it’s cool to hear the new stuff, but you know what you want to hear Saturday in the park. Okay, you want to hear the classics. And I don’t care that you’ve sung that song, you know, 250,000 times in the last 45 years. I paid my money. You’re going Sing it again and you’re gonna sing it with heart and with feelings. Or I want my money back. That’s a professional, you know. And so entrepreneurs, we get very distracted. You know, we can bounce all around, we don’t stick with things, until they’re proven to work. And even if they do work, we get bored with it, and we will bounce around, and it kills you. That’s why companies don’t succeed why entrepreneurs don’t don’t succeed. You know? So it’s, it’s kind of a dichotomy, right? On the one hand, you got to find a winning formula and stick with it. But conversely, you should always be striving to beat your best performing ad or campaign. Okay, but once you have that great when that’s your control group, you know, so just like the band Chicago, you know, they started having, you know, number one albums and singles in the 70s, where they didn’t stop, you know, let’s make another one and another one and another, okay. So the second or third album wasn’t as good as the first you know, or the fourth is better than the second but then The fifth isn’t as good as the 4k, keep going, you know, and keep evolving. But keep playing. Keep playing those winning songs in the radio because you get paid on them every time.
David Ralph [23:10]
It’s interesting you say that because what Chicago are doing, they are providing what the consumer wants. You know, I went to see Rick Astley in concert. I talk about Rick Astley a lot. He’s one of my sort of faves. Great seeing I don’t know if you remember Rick Astley from the sort of 80s and he’s come back with a new album, and he’s voice sounds better and better and better. And this DJ the other day said, you know, your big hit, Never gonna give you up number one in America, number one in the UK, number one in Australia back in 87. Do you ever get fed up with singing it? And he said no. He said I never get fed up with singing it because the customer wants to hear it. And it was my chance. It was what gave me my livelihood. I wouldn’t be anything without that song. And I thought that’s very aware, because I remember going to see people like David Bowie and for a long time he didn’t do any of these hits. Because he got bored with them, it didn’t matter about us. We were paying to go to hear those hits. But he got bored with them and he stopped. So what? What makes an entrepreneur be able to be non bored by their work? Because it’s all like creating something. That’s the fun bit. But once it’s out there for a while, how do you keep that spark everyday was to keep going.
Wes Schaeffer [24:25]
You know, that can be tough. And you always hear people say, do what you love, and you’ll never work a day in your life. It’s like, well, I don’t know. I love drinking scotch and smoking cigars. And I tried owning a wine and cigar store and lost my bottom. Yeah. So you know, maybe I wasn’t ready. Maybe I had the wrong partners and all that is certainly true. But I think ultimately, you know, the old Zig Ziglar saying help enough people get what they want and you can get whatever you want. So I like helping people Have that light bulb moment right and get that breakthrough on sales and marketing and growing their business. So if you focus on those types of results helping people, I don’t think that ever gets old. Now, you may change how you do it. Okay, working with people one on one, training them on how to log into Infusionsoft or HubSpot. Okay, that gets old. I don’t do that anymore. But helping them with the bigger picture, helping them map things out and then assigning one of my team members to do that onboarding, then that’s fine. So I’m still creating the same results. I’m just doing it on a little bigger scale, and solving bigger problems around sales and marketing versus just logging in and learning where to click in a database. So you do have to evolve I think you do have to grow up a bit, right? You have to as you master one skill, I think the real purpose of that is so you can then outsource it right? You can bring on a team member and say, okay, I’ve perfected this, do it like this, and we’ll be fine. And then I’m gonna go master another skill. And then I’ll bring somebody else on to do the next step. And you can get bigger and bigger and bigger. Obviously, if you’re a musician or an artist, you know, people are paying you to create that art. That can be a little bit it’s, it’s a lot different. But most of us listening to this, you know, podcasts are not artists, you know, we’re, we’re doing something we’re building something, we’re running a business. And so you have to create the processes. You know, Vanessa, the old saying that you you have to draw on a blank on it. You have to you can only expect what you inspect. Hmm, yeah. Okay, so you, you create the processes, you hand it over, but then you follow up, you keep, you know, low quality control, right, you get the manufacturing plant and they’ll pull one item out of the assembly line, you know, the pull out one randomly one out of 101 out of 1000, whatever, and they’ll test it, they’ll go break it, you know, automobiles, whatever, they’ll go break these things or crash them on purpose to see if it’s meeting their expectations. So, you know, the, I think one of the big mistakes entrepreneurs make is they hand over too much stuff too soon and think they can totally walk away and then they get robbed blind. Okay, you can always delegate responsibility. I’m sorry, you can delegate authority, but you cannot delegate responsibility. Okay, and I learned that in the military, I may have people working for me, and I can give them orders are say, look, you have the authority to act on my behalf. execute this plan, but if they mess up, I’m responsible. Okay, so yeah, they may have been knuckleheads, maybe they did something totally stupid. But you know what, they remind people, I train them or I didn’t train them adequately enough. I maybe gave them too much rope, too much leeway, and they hung themselves. I’m responsible, okay. And as a business owner, you’re responsible. So you hire somebody as your social media manager, you hire somebody as your web developer, whatever, and they mess up. You know, we see here in the US, you know, Donald Trump, you know, silly tweets will go out and he’ll throw his people under the bus. It’s like, Hey, dude, that’s your Twitter account. You know, you’re responsible.
David Ralph [28:47]
So what I want to do now just want to change the flow slightly off the whole show, and I’m gonna play some words of from a woman. She’s well known across the world, but she’s certainly well known in America.
Oprah Winfrey [28:59]
This is Oprah The way through the challenge is to get still and ask yourself, what is the next right move? not think about, Oh, I got all of this stuff. What is the next right move? And then from that space, make the next right move, and the next right move, and not to be overwhelmed by it. Because you know, your life is bigger than that one moment, you know, you’re not defined by what somebody says, is a failure for you. Because failure is just there to point you in a different direction.
David Ralph [29:31]
Now, you’ve obviously had your fair share of failures, everybody’s had them. But how do you follow those words? Do you go exactly as she says, or have you got your own way through to success?
Wes Schaeffer [29:44]
I have no idea what you’re talking about. I’m batting 1000, man.
David Ralph [29:48]
I can’t believe it. I can totally believe it. So so when you wake up in the middle of the morning, and you know, and that was just why did I do that? That was stupid. You know, how would you sort of me way through.
Wes Schaeffer [30:02]
You know, it can be tough. I’ve had many, you know, two and 3am wake ups. You know why? Why do all the ideas and the fears come to us in the middle of the night? Hmm. You know, my dad’s version of what Oprah just said is, you know, if you think you’re desperate you are. Okay? So don’t think you’re desperate. They’re not going to eat you. You know, this is not life or death. It may feel like it. You may feel afraid, oh, my business is gonna die. I’m gonna be ridiculed. I’m gonna fall behind on my payments, they’re gonna repossess my car. It’s like, Okay, great. You know, you’re going to live. Maybe you have to eat a little humble pie. Maybe you got to move back in with your parents. Maybe your friends will take you in. You can sleep on their couch in their basement. Okay, you know, the nice thing is once you hit rock bottom, you can only go up but too many people let just the fear the thoughts of failure, paralyse them And, you know, we hide from the numbers. We, you know, we just bury our head. You know, we see in the movies, you know, people pull the covers up over their head when the Boogey Man comes in, it’s like, yeah, and the Boogey Man not see you under the covers, you know, are those bulletproof covers? You know, I mean, so hiding from it never solves anything. And you know, one thing I learned in the military, you know, I was in the Air Force, we took a lot of survival training, you know, working through the land, evading our captives, or potential cap doors. And, and we did a little bit of firearms training, and one of the things they taught us was in an ambush. The best way to survive an ambush is to attack it. Most people and that’s kind of what Oprah is talking about, you know, you’re ambushed in your business. So you, you freeze. Well, okay, great. You’re just staying there. You’re gonna get shot. You’re gonna And so now the enemy has laid a little trick on you. They’ve pulled you in, they’ve lured you in, and now they’re attacking and you weren’t ready for it. So first of all, learn to be ready. Okay? Learn the signals, learn to look around and find the cues. So you can navigate the terrain a little better, and increase your chances of survival. The other part of that is be prepared, you know, be physically fit, be locked and loaded, ready to engage the enemy. But when that inevitable happens and the surprise attack comes, hit it head on, lean into it, okay, rather than hunkering down. That’s the only way to increase your chances of getting through it. And again, this is not life or death. This may be the life or death of your business. But you know, my business has evolved. I went from pure sales training to doing a lot with marketing automation software. And then evolved into full fledged marketing and consulting and training. And you know, that was just with Infusionsoft and now it’s ontraport. It’s HubSpot. It’s it’s nimble, it’s a tonne of other tools. And now it’s Virtual Training. I just spent two days in Vegas with my team, creating over 40 new training videos for three new courses I’m bringing out so you know, you’re constantly evolving. So, you know, lean into the ambush. Okay. And I love what Oprah is talking about, because I wrote a post a while ago talking about your big, hairy, audacious goals are ambushing you, right? They’re killing you because people get these big lofty dreams and that’s fine. You need a big goal, to have that kind of a Northstar. But as you’re, as you’re navigating and journeying towards that North Star, you have rivers to cross you have mountains to climb. You know, valleys to traverse, and it can be tough. And so you have to continue putting that one foot forward. And so have the big goal. But you got to back that all the way down to what will I do for the next 15 minutes to get me towards that goal. And I think that’s where most people fail to plan. And, and then they end up failing. I had
David Ralph [34:26]
a lady on the show, episode eight, one of the first ones I ever recorded. So I literally didn’t know what I was doing. called Pamela slim, and she’s based over in America. And she will say, Oh, you know, Pam, yes, she was my episode eight. And I’m be honest, over 600 episodes, some of the episodes you kind of can’t remember what somebody said to you. But this one’s sort of stuck with me and she said, you know, to get going, you have to break every task down into the smallest bit. So if you want to start a business, the first thing you need to do is turn a computer on the second thing You need to do, and they sound almost idiotically stupid things. But by doing them you build up momentum instead of sitting there thinking of the big picture and going, how the hell am I going to do this? I’ve got no idea. You know, right. So, so with your business, when How long did it take before, you know, it became something that you would actually be proud to say it was a business and not just messing around trying to get things going.
Wes Schaeffer [35:28]
You know, it went up and down. I, early on, through some connections that I had, I want a very big sales training contract with Dell. And that was a 10 month contract. And it was awesome. It paid great. It looked good on a resume. You know, I could do press releases about it. But the reality was, I was delivering somebody else’s content. And I was allowed a little leeway to make it my own, but it was their content that I was delivering. And so it made me appear very big and successful. And the reality was monetarily, I was very successful, but it took me out of building my own brand. Yeah. Okay, so when that 10 month contract was over, I was literally left with nothing, you know, I hadn’t been blogging hadn’t been making my website. So now 2008 rolls around, I’ve got to start from scratch. Fortunately, you know, I kept my money in the bank. So I had you know, I had a runway right, but I had to start from scratch and then here comes the the.or, the not the.com implosion, but the real estate collapse. And it for me, it was in an ironic way, it was good because it got rid of what I called stupid money. So now people when I was talking to them, they realised Oh, heck, you know, trees don’t grow to the sky. I’ve got to get serious about how to grow my business. Now the downfall was, most people were out of money, right? So they lost everything. But so they had the motivation, but not necessarily the means to engage me. And that’s that’s the time that I found Infusionsoft was a summer of Oh, just before the collapse happened, and I was getting certified, you know, in the fall. And as things were crumbling down around us, but I knew, you know, the old adage, you get a buy when there’s blood in the street, even if it’s your own blood, okay? And I saw, I saw the vision, right? I’m like, I’ve got to automate. If I’m going to grow, I can add staff or I can add systems. So I became a product of the product, you know, and started blogging about that and creating videos about that as I was still going back to cold calling and doing live local events. So it took you know, even from there a couple of years to really build up And create income and recurring income, you know, having that residual income of selling software that that is recurring is literally life changing. And you know, I always tell people and I’d encourage your listeners, you know, look around at things that you can feel good about selling. You know, you don’t have to go develop it. You don’t have to invent I didn’t invent Infusionsoft. I didn’t invent HubSpot. You know, I just got certified with them, and I help people buy it. And I get paid well, for helping them do that. And now, I’m writing books, right? I’m creating my own sales, training programmes. I’m doing other things to complement that. But growing your business and your income through affiliate marketing is a very perfectly valid way to grow your business, you know, so it took me years to build this thing up to where it is now.
David Ralph [38:59]
And Do you look back on that contract and think, yeah, I shouldn’t have done that, or do you just think, Oh, it was part of the journey, and I wouldn’t change anything. If I look back on it.
Wes Schaeffer [39:10]
Yeah, it’s, um, you know, I was interviewed on Nathan lapkus podcast, and he’s, he’s a software developer. He’s a young smart kid. And, you know, he’s like, wow, just think of you to create your own software, you know, and sold that much. You know, you’d have millions. And it’s like, yeah, I can look back and maybe kick myself in the butt. But you know what, that wasn’t where I was, you know, eight years ago, I wasn’t a software developer. I didn’t I didn’t think that way. So I made the best decision that I could make with the information and the challenges and the opportunities I had in front of me. And so, you know, looking at that monthly residual check that comes in the mail, like I said, whether I get out of bed or not, yeah, Nathan’s making more money than me and he’s younger. But you know what, he doesn’t have a family a wife. I mean, he we have different lives. So, yeah, that’s it. goes back to kind of that regret and the fear you’re talking about. It’s like, I feel fine. You know, yes, I want to grow. Yes, I have bigger goals. And maybe I’ll develop some of my own tools like that down the road. But, you know, my real strength is sales, training, marketing, copywriting, coaching. So, you know, I’m gonna stay in my sweet spot, and make sure my foundation stays strong. As I look at adding on, right, hey, it’s time to add a patio. Let’s build a pool. You know, as I add on these modules to my business house, you know, I always make sure that foundation is strong.
David Ralph [40:41]
I think the key thing that you said there was, and it certainly resonated with me was you wasn’t ready. It wasn’t the right time for you. And so many people look back and go, Oh, I should have started five years earlier. You know, people have said to me, I’ve got a show now that’s doing amazingly well and I say, you know, did you wait She started it five years earlier. And I said, No, I don’t think I could have started it five years earlier. It just wasn’t right for me at that time. You’ve got to find that moment. Now what you do at that moment, that’s the key thing. And that’s the thing that leads to success. And so many people have that moment, and then they shrink back. But, but time is never right. Until it’s right. And when it’s right, you got to do something about it, don’t you?
Wes Schaeffer [41:23]
Yeah, you know, in, I played football in high school in college, you know, American football and, and my son, he played now, through high school, he’s a senior, and I coached him in eighth grade. And then you know what, I always talk with them throughout high school. And the same thing that I was taught, you know, I taught him and that is it quite often. You may take the wrong step. You know, you’re supposed to go, you know, to the right, maybe you go left, okay, you just mess up. Most people have the tendency to go. As soon as they step left, they go oh, wait a minute. I’m supposed to go right. And then they pause and then they try to correct but this play is happening in real time. So we would always say, even if you hit the wrong guy, if you go to the wrong hole, hit it with 100% go full speed, you know, we say in American football, you’ll go full speed hit somebody in the mouth, okay, and good things will happen. Okay, yeah, you blew it, you went the wrong way. But if you just stand still and try to correct midstream, you’re just gonna be a mess, right? You’re just you’re just clogging up the hole, you’re doing nobody any good. So whatever you do go full speed. Okay, even if you’re going in the wrong direction, go full speed. So at least you know, pretty soon you’ll get to that dead end and go, Okay, it’s time to turn around. Well, I’d rather I’d rather realise five minutes into my journey that I hit a dead end than five hours into my journey. Right so you only know that
David Ralph [42:56]
by going full speed. Right advice. love that. I love that. Well. This is the partner show that we’re going to bring the man on who created it Oh, and you’ve already referenced him and he’s may in there gouge, creating apple. But these are the words of Steve Jobs.
Steve Jobs [43:10]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [43:44]
So one of the words that you buy into or lace off simplistic words.
Wes Schaeffer [43:50]
No, he’s he’s right on. You know, hindsight is 2020 is basically what he’s saying. Right? I mean, he he moved on he moved forward. And he was wrong A lot of times, in some of the products they develop, certainly his approach, and he got him kicked out of the company that he founded. But you know, if he hadn’t gotten kicked out, you know, he wouldn’t have gotten involved with next, which became their core operating system, he wouldn’t have gotten involved with Pixar. So, so many things. So many good things came about from an apparent bad thing. So, you know, it goes back to like, when my dad said, you know, you’re only desperate if you think you’re desperate. So it can certainly be depressing. You know, I read jobs, biography, you know, he was down in the dumps after getting kicked out of his own company. But he did pick himself up and move on, you know, imagine if he had just taken his millions, you know, and said to heck with this, and just, you know, went back to painting or living in a commune. I mean, how different would the world be? So, he dust himself off and kept moving on. And then like I said, looking back, it became my obvious Yeah, I needed a better operating system. Yeah, you know, the power of digital movies and blah, blah, blah, became obvious to building the strength in the future of apple. But
you know, you can’t keep looking back.
David Ralph [45:14]
But if you did well, it’s your big thought when you when you look back and I love asking this question, so I asked it most of the time, but what’s your big.on your timeline where things really started to go your way and you thought Yeah, actually, this is it. I think I found my thing.
Wes Schaeffer [45:32]
Oh, man, you know, I’ve always been in sales I mean, that the biggest dot would be having the confidence or the night of A to A to leave the Air Force and jump into commission sales. You know, I, I had a good life. You know, I was my wife and I had been married just a couple years we had a baby with another one on the way. We live in a three bedroom house, on the back bay of Berlin. Mississippi, you’re looking out into the Gulf of Mexico. I was four houses away from the golf course. Golf membership was $400 a year, we live on the 10th hole. As I made the turn, I would just call my wife said, Hey, we’re about to come through, she’d hand over sandwiches and beers. And, you know, healthcare was provided. I mean, it was, I could I could have stayed, you know, in that career for 20 years. And, you know, I wanted to get paid for my production, not just based on my time in service, not just based on my tenure, right? So I mean, I left all of that behind to go learn how to smile and dial pick up the phone work a deal. And you know, that obviously changed the entire trajectory of my life.
David Ralph [46:47]
Do you look back on anything? I know we sort of alluded to this earlier, but do you look back on anything and go Okay, I’m, I wouldn’t have changed it, but I might just have done it slightly different or do you just go now. Move on, move on. At full speed.
Wes Schaeffer [47:01]
Yeah, you got to move on. I mean, looking back, I have friends that are still in the Air Force. I mean, they’re they’re colonels, right. Some are about the pin on general. You know, and if I’m not turned down pilot training from the Air Force Academy, so I was guaranteed a pilot slot. And people thought I was crazy for not doing that. But back then in 92, you basically had to sign up for a 12 year commitment to become a pilot. And I just, it wasn’t my life dream. Like I said, I was I was recruited to play football. I came from kind of a blue collar family and didn’t have money for college. So I just knew I needed to get a good education. And I knew I didn’t want to go into debt to do it. So I really didn’t have any clear direction. I wasn’t moving towards something. I was moving away from something right I was moving away from an up and down blue collar lifestyle was moving away from debt. So that ended up being Setting me on the right journey. You know, so. So yeah, I mean looking back, you know, maybe I would have gone and become a pilot. Maybe like a classmate of mine is still in the service, he cross commission became a navy seal. And I’ve been I’ve interviewed a lot of former navy seals that are entrepreneurs now and I’m like, I didn’t even think about that. Right. It’s like, getting to know these guys. Like, you know what? I might have had what it took. Yeah, I think I could have gotten through that it certainly with those guys. With john, I mean, he and I together, you know, I’d have made it through, I’m sure with him. You know, having a good buddy saying, don’t be a wimp, don’t quit. Okay, I’ll stick it out. So maybe that would have been my journey. Right? But it’s like, you know, married 21 years, you know, seven kids. I don’t know, how do you how do you look back on that and say that was wrong. You know, I just it’s not.
David Ralph [48:55]
I think no experience is wasted. I really do. I think that everything leads to a point, as long as you do stuff. And I think that’s what it all comes down to. And that’s really the message of this whole show. You don’t know the answers, but by moving forward, you can look back and it becomes linear. But the only way it becomes linear and you join up your dots, is by giving it a go and trying stuff, some things will fly, some things won’t, some things will just die. But you learn more often than not from the things that die more than you do to the things that fly. You know, it’s just the way that life works. So I, I’m glad you said that answer, because that really ties in what this shows all about. Now, this is the end of the show now and this is the bit we’ve been building up to the bit when we send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the young West, what age would you choose and what advice would you give? Well, we’re going to find out because I’m going to play the theme tune. And when it fades, you’re up. This is the Sermon on the mic.
Unknown Speaker [49:59]
Wake up With the best bit
Unknown Speaker [50:01]
of
Unknown Speaker [50:02]
the show,
Wes Schaeffer [50:17]
you know, I was really hoping you were going to play the tune. Never gonna give you up.
David Ralph [50:22]
Never gonna let you down. Come on, man, you need to change that tune. Okay, next time promise your next time. All right.
Wes Schaeffer [50:27]
All right. So what advice and at what age? You know, I would say, as I began my entrepreneurial journey to self somewhere late 20s. To trust in myself more. Most of the trouble most of the financial losses that I’ve experienced over the last 10 plus years have come from bad partnerships, you know, thinking somebody had some knowledge They didn’t have like, they’re better than me. So let me just stick with them and kind of ride their coattails instead of just keeping in continuing to invest in myself. Because that has always paid the best dividends. You know, it’s, you certainly need mentors, you certainly need to learn from the skill and experience of others. But learning from them is different than placing all of your trust and hope in them and saying, you know, here’s my money, go invested here, let’s go do this deal because you’re so smart, and I’m not. And I just I got burned so many times. It’s like, I’m done with partnerships. I’m done with, you know, thinking somebody has some superpower that I don’t have, you know, so have the confidence in yourself. trust in yourself, trust your instincts. You know, surround yourself with good people that are looking out for you and have your best interest you know, when you need that second opinion, but ultimately, it’s it’s your call, you know, like a guy that Roy Williams he always says you pull the trigger and ride the bullet you know, so be willing and confident to just trust in yourself and your instincts and you know things are going to work out just fine.
David Ralph [52:12]
Where’s what’s the number one best way that our audience can connect with you sir?
Wes Schaeffer [52:17]
Send me $1,000 to my paypal address and I will be there for you. Oh, okay. Other than that, just go to the sales whisperer calm and you can find me all over the place. I got my Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, everything’s there. My even my phone number. I answered my phone. So, you know, hit me up there. The sales whisperer comm
David Ralph [52:41]
will have over links in the show notes. Where’s thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots and please come back again when you have more dots to join up because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Wes Schaeffer, thank you so much.
Wes Schaeffer [52:58]
My pleasure. Thanks, David.
David Ralph [53:02]
Do you know the bit I loved about that show that he was talking about? Always thinking, but other people have got the answers. Other people have got the super talents, were actually, by investing in yourself and actually learning it, you will be so far ahead. It’s untrue. And during my coaching on my coaching platform, we talk a lot about actually accepting, but sometimes it’s worth paying for something. And when you’re investing in yourself, you really do set yourself up for success like nothing else. So don’t think that everybody else has got the answers think that I’ve got the answers or I can go out and find the answers. But then get that information and bring it in because you are building your business. You’re building yourself, you’re building your personal belief, and that is how it all comes together. Thank you so much for listening to this show. As always, if you do get a moment or two to leave a rating, a review, you know, I mean, just drop me a line and say that you’ve done it and I will personally respond to you. That’s What I like to do, it really does make a difference to get these shows to the top. But bottom line, if you can come back for the next one, I still let you all love it. Thanks very much. Cheers. Bye bye. So if you’re sitting there listening to podcast after podcast, reading book out of the book, and still fed up with a life you are living waiting for something amazing to happen. I have one thing to say to you. And this is it. Nothing is going to change your life unless you start taking action is 100% down to you. Stop making excuses and get yourself out there. Start working towards what you want in your life. Now, we work with people like you every day of the week who need the help to change their lives and with plans targets accountability, or just offering a shoulder to cry on when needed, how members are seeing dramatic changes in their lives. They’re breaking free from the things that are stopping them earning the money they want. Finding the love they want or just loving their life. They are making it happen. So I will need you to stop listening to podcasts and start shouting. This is my moment. I’m starting today I’m going for it. I need you to stop making excuses. Come over today at Join Up dots.com forward slash, get the dream and begin the rest of your life. I look forward to personally working with every single one of you, but you’ve got to start, visit Join Up dots.com forward slash get the dream
