Welcome to the Join Up Dots business coaching podcast interview with Dr CK Bray.
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Introducing Dr CK Bray
Our guest today, joining us on the Join Up Dots podcast interview is DR CK Bray.
He comes onto the show with a drive to make life better for so many of us who spend our days in jobs we don’t like.
I think already that we are connected at birth!
Starting his life with a dream to be a news anchor or game show host, DR CK Bray for some reason that we will find out about, decided instead to go into Corporate America.
Where for 15 years he surrounded himself with the kind of folk that have gone onto become his target audience.
The moaners and groaners, the dispirited, or simply the employees that need help to find their swing.
He wanted to find a way to develop their potential, get promoted and enjoy working for a living.
How The Dots Joined Up For Dr CK Bray
Well unlike many people who have got to a point in their career, where success is about maintaining instead of gaining he was different.
DR CK Bray decided that he was the man to help them.
Pausing his corporate gig, he went back to school and earned himself an MBA and PHD.
Which literally was the starting point to the second half of his working life, and what seems to me to be the unique path that he had been looking for all along.
Now with his “Career Revolution” platform consisting of a podcast, blog, video tips and empowering information to one and all he is firing on all cylinders.
As he says “Creating a career takes hard work, patience, planning and most importantly, someone to help you along the way.”
So lets find out what was the tipping point to the leap of faith that started it all?
Lets find out if he would still like to be a game show host?
And most important lets find out how Dr Bray has managed to find the time to have produced five girls, and one boy!
Well let’s bring onto the show to start joining up dots, as we discuss the words of Steve Jobs with the one and only Dr CK Bray.
During the show we discussed such weighty subjects with Dr CK Bray such as:
How he believes that people no longer have to wait to be chosen by a Manager or employer.
Instead you can chose to make things happen yourself.
Why the last step before you jump is most definitely the scariest, but still always worth doing!
When you love the thing that you are doing everyday, work becomes effortless and more rewarding to all around you!
How he never ceases to be amazed by the emails that he receives and how open and honest people are with him!
How he believed he was mediocre in his career even though he was winning awards and achieving great success!
How To Connect With Dr CK Bray
You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here – enjoy
Audio Transcription Of Dr CK Bray
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK, David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:26]
Yes, hello. Good morning, everybody. How are we? It’s funny. I always say good morning. And I’d love to know when you do actually listen to the show, because you could listen to it at any time you might be addicted and just keep on listening to the same show over and over and over again. That’d be brilliant for me downloads, but let me know let me know where you are listening and what time you’re listening. And do you do it as soon as you get out of bed or last thing at night? Am I the voice that you drift off with just before you close your eyes? That’s a lovely little full. Well, here’s a chap today who’s really got the voice that you would like to drift off with. He’s got that kind of deep sense. See American boys and hey, I’m a heterosexual man, but I could be turned and he’s the man to do it. He is somebody I don’t know why I said that. I really don’t. I think I’m having a breakdown. He’s a man today who comes onto the show with a drive to make life better for so many of us who spend our days in Jobs we don’t like I think already that were connected at birth, starting his life with a dream to be a news anchor or game show host he for some reason that will find out about decided instead to go into corporate America. With a 15 years he surrounded himself with the kind of folk that gone on to become his target audience. The mon ism groaners the dispirited or simply the employees that need help to find their swing, develop, let potential get promoted and enjoy working for a living. Well, unlike many people have got to a point in their career where success is about maintaining, instead of gaining, he decided that he was the man to help them posing his corporate geek he went back to school and earned himself in the MBA and PhD, which literally was the starting point to the second half of his working life and what seems to me to be the unique path that he had been looking for all along. Now with these career revolution platform consisting of a podcast blog videotapes, and empowering information to one and all. He’s firing on all cylinders. As he says creating a career takes hard work, patience, planning, and most importantly, someone to help you along the way. So let’s find out what was the tipping point to the leap of faith? What started it all? Let’s find out if he would still like to be a game show host. And most importantly, let’s find out how he managed to find the time to produce five girls and one boy. It’s a pleasure. But I bring on to the show to start joining up the dots of his life, the one and only Dr. ck Bray. How are you today? Dr. Bray?
Dr CK Bray [2:47]
I’m doing great. What an introduction. I tell you what an introduction.
David Ralph [2:51]
You are a man who I’ll be honest with you. I’ve been looking at your pictures for about a week. Now. I can’t find one when you don’t look as happy as loud. I don’t know you had that phrase in America. But over here, you’re just beaming from every picture I see. Are you always happy always act like a photo photo mail for you have?
Dr CK Bray [3:13]
You know, when you were saying earlier that you know even as a heterosexual man, I thought that’s until you see me. And then you’ll change your mind immediately. But I think you know, pictures, a little touch up here and there on those pictures, right? Because at 44 I’m not as young as I used to be
David Ralph [3:27]
on the same age though. I’m 44. And I’m going white and and I’m just ageing. The podcast has aged me I must, must be honest, the time zones are a killer. But you You look like you look like you’re still in in
Dr CK Bray [3:42]
college. Listen to that. Listen, I actually think if you can believe it, that the kids have kept me young because they keep us running and going and activities and sports and music. So there is never a downtime. But I think it keeps you young, it keeps us keeps us up and going early and up late and we are fun, we have a really good time.
David Ralph [4:01]
I don’t mean to be rude about that. siloed about rubbish. Because I’ve actually got four girls and one boy, we’re almost done me by one. And if you look at the first child, we had to lie and the next one, the next one, next one. And you can gradually see the decay setting in as we produce more and more kids. So I don’t know what you’ve got in your Arizona water. But it certainly is doing you all right.
Dr CK Bray [4:27]
Listen to that. Well, I’m telling you, we could talk for hours about having girls and what it’s like in a household to have all all girls you at least have one boy to offset it a little bit. We have a little boy that we’re adopting from Ghana. Hopefully we’re going to pick him up in the next month or so. So he’s going to be my one who kind of keeps the bounce amidst all of my all of my ladies.
David Ralph [4:48]
It’s not easy, but you learn more from the ladies, when you do from the men. I think the men we were like lovable jokes, as long as we’re fed. And we were comfortable every now and again, back all we want but the ability to juggle the emotions, the door slamming the brands hanging over every every lamppost or whatever, not a lamppost, it would hang a bra on a lamppost up just be wrong. But all that kind of stuff going on. That is the true mark of the man, don’t you think? Oh I apps,
Dr CK Bray [5:18]
I absolutely agree. And I tell all my friends that whenever I am overcome that a good hour run or good hour of exercise will bring back testosterone and my mind, and I’m good to go. Because oftentimes, in fact, just the other day, I came home a little bit late, I was out of town came home a little bit late, went to kiss one of my girls Good night, pulled back the bed, pulled back the bed sheet. And there were two girls who weren’t even my own, not one of not one of the five and I’m thinking these two girls are not my own. I don’t even know where my daughter’s now she happened to be in the next room because they were having a big sleep over. But as you will know, with girls, you never know who’s going to be in the house and who’s eating breakfast. And so, you know, it’s it always keeps things lively.
David Ralph [5:59]
It certainly and your life is alive, the isn’t it you? You’ve got somebody, you know, I’m doing a daily podcast. And when we were talking just before the show started, you were going wow, you know, that’s a lot. But you’re doing blogging, your video tips, you’re obviously doing, you know, one to one meetings and clients and how do you manage to balance all that. And still, as I say, be smiling from ear to ear in every photo.
Dr CK Bray [6:23]
I think much like a lot of your past guests and like you yourself, I love to do it. It. I think it’s and believe it’s what I was meant to do. I’m really good at it. I love studying it. I love working with people. And I think for myself, it’s one of the best things I can do to give to people because their careers are so important at all stages of an individual’s life. And I have a lot of experience a lot of education. And so it is so fun and so rewarding to work with people and help them find the career where they love it. They’re engaged, they’re happy. And hopefully they’re making enough money, you know, to be comfortable. it for me is I say to myself, every day, I have the best job I could possibly imagine because I get to help people and make a little money at it. And people still email me years later saying, you know, if it wasn’t for you helping me through that transition, I don’t know where I’d be. So I I just love it. It For Me is one of the most rewarding things I did. You can
David Ralph [7:19]
you can hear that in your voice. And one of the themes I’m trying to get through to the listeners who are in your target audience, or in the kind of career that maybe they’re not happy with, or is not quite firing on all cylinders, or they’re just stagnating? Or maybe even that I hate it. And I don’t know what to do is there is an easy world out there, once you start playing to your strengths. Do you agree with that?
Dr CK Bray [7:47]
I absolutely agree, David, because if you do something that you love, and you’re good at, you can make a living at it. And like you just said, I see people every day, who just feel stuck. And they say there’s nothing else I can’t get another job. And oftentimes, it’s just once they make that first transition, meaning they go to a different position in the same company, or they get promoted, or they leave the organisation or they start a business that once they’ve done it once then they realise it wasn’t as scary as I thought I can do it. I have a future. And actually, I’m much happier than I was before. So it’s just a matter of just really trying to make that change and get through it.
David Ralph [8:29]
What do you think that people are so scared? You know, it’s not like there’s only one job out there. And I always thought to myself, if I got sacked, I never have got sacked once Well, I kind of did a long time ago, but that’s a storey over a beer. And it was probably due to too many beers. And I got I got so sick.
Yeah. But so many people are in these careers that they they dislike they hate. And no matter how many times you say to them, Well, why don’t you get another job, you know, get your resume out there start living hang around, by just don’t do anything. It’s almost they like the fact that they can justify that the job is rubbish, by the fact that is making them miserable. So they can go back in there and justify it again, do you do find that with the people you speak to?
Dr CK Bray [9:13]
I absolutely agree. And it’s just the fear of change fear of doing something different, you know, they’re used to getting up and driving to the same place and eating the same lunch and working with the same people. And it’s just a matter of saying I can actually make a change, because they just get in these ruts. And it’s when they start to look and say, Okay, what can I do different in my life, and oftentimes with my clients all start out with smaller changes in their current job. And then once they realised they can do those smaller changes, then they get brave, and they get the courage to say I can do other things, you know, I can do more because oftentimes, David, when I work with people, they all say to me, and it doesn’t matter if you’re in your 20s 30s and 40s. They say, you know, I know I could do more, I just feel inside, that I could make a bigger difference that I could do more that I can make more money. And I just need to make a change. And it is just that fear of actually doing it they want to, but oftentimes, they just don’t even know how
David Ralph [10:09]
well but that’s that’s the nuts and bolts of it, isn’t it? You know, we all say and it’s I’ve had quite a few conversations today where I’ve kind of said the same thing that we all say to people because we believe it passionately. When you find your unique path or when you find your passion when you all that stuff. And it’s absolutely true. Because I’m I am living and breathing it at the moment I’m doing a show. And each episode, I feel like I’m growing into it. And the more I grow into the more I love it, and it’s just kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. But when you’re saying to people look inside yourself, you know, beyond so you know, you know what you’re naturally good at. They just can’t see it, can they? I just can’t see it. So they, they haven’t got that moment of clarity until it hits them in the face. And Ben, it’s almost like hell didn’t wanna see, but it was always there.
Dr CK Bray [10:58]
See? Oh, I agree. David,
can I ask you a question? Anything you like?
Okay, so as you know, I read more about you and I got to know you better. You know, sometimes in your 20s in your 30s pricing was for myself, it’s hard to see. And it takes time, you know, to put together and join up the dots to where it all comes together and isn’t going to for some people happens in their 20s for some people happens in their 30s. For me, it was my late 30s before it finally hit, but you can’t see it. And that may mean that you just need to dig more is Was that your experience?
David Ralph [11:30]
I couldn’t see it until it smacked me in the face one day, and I’ve told the storey numerous times, I had a manager and if you listened back to Episode One, I would say you know, I wasn’t seeing it. I am on episode 74. Now, so she was a cow. She was an absolute cow. And as soon as Yes, absolutely. It’s my show. Now I can do anything I want. But um, she really made my life miserable. And because I was so miserable. That really was when I started looking around. And I’ve got a guy that you can go on the show, and you can download the eight successful steps. And one of them is be aware, if you’re in your situation, and you hate your situation, what most people do, and I think I was doing it at that time was thinking my, I don’t like it here. So I’m gonna do what I’m doing here somewhere else that will solve the problem. But now I look back on it. And because I finally got to the end, when my mojo had died, my my personality was dying. I had a chat with people weren’t, you know, knew me for 10 or 15 years. And they said the last year you weren’t yourself. But I found that moment of clarity only by being miserable. And I hate to say that that’s how most people will do it. I’d like to say that there’s a yellow brick road and you’re going to walk out one morning and bluebirds are going to be singing, and you’re going to skip along the road and fine, you know, whatever you’re looking for, but it’s not. But you do have to become aware and you need to look around at what other people are doing. And every now and again, like I’ve done on the podcast, you will see something and you will go I’ve never thought of that before. I think I can do that. That’s when your passion is hit.
Dr CK Bray [13:15]
Absolutely. And it’s so hard to do that. Unless something like what you just discussed with your boss happens. It’s hard for people to see unless like you said it hit you right upside the head and you have to and they say I have to make a change. It just isn’t working.
David Ralph [13:29]
Well I do you think know that. It’s a truth of life that so many people find their we call it the big doctor, when they are pushed into a corner that like the only way they know is actually to make that leap of faith and jump. And once they make that leap of faith, they actually look around and go, Well, I haven’t broken any bones be I’m doing all right, I may not be earning as much money as I was. But God, I’m so much happier. Why do you think it is that moment that forces people to do it?
Dr CK Bray [14:02]
You know, I think there are a lot of reasons that cause people to do it. But I think one of the number one reasons that they see it is that they know Well number one, if they have to make a change, they decide, well, if I have to make a change, I might as well actually do something that I want to do. Now, like a lot of my clients speaking for myself, I wish in my 30s, I would have done that I was working for a fortune five company, it was at one of the largest organisations in the world had a great job. And then they made some changes, and they’re getting ready to lay people off. And I had the opportunity to leave with a severance. And instead of taking the opportunity to start something new and do what I really wanted to do. Like you said, I chickened out, and I went to another company did the same thing. And it was the most miserable two and a half years of my life, I’m telling you, every day was just like getting up was a chore going to work I was the most unhappy I’ve ever been. And it took that second go round for me to actually say, you know what, third go round, I’m going to do it on my own, I’ve got to take what I’m good at. So I think a lot of it is is people just have to make the decision to say I’m actually going to do it, I’m going to take the risk. And by doing it through small steps, it’s so much easier to do than taking up a big leap that sometime life, you know, serves up to us as you’re going to have to take a leap, whether you like it or not.
David Ralph [15:20]
I was speaking to a chap last night and he was saying that he took a leap of faith. Because he realised and I love the way he phrased it, he realised that his career was a train that was going into a bad place. And he said I ever was going to be incinerated or I was going to jump and I decided I would jump and he landed and he landed pretty heavily to be honest. And he he kind of had to fight his way back. And now he looks back and goes, please jump, you know, please jump. And it doesn’t even have to be jumping from another job. It can be like a mental jump, can it it can be some moment in your in your career where you actually think No, I’m going through the motions, I’m going to actually start performing better. And you will find that that motivation kicks in for your career to actually accelerate where you found yourself in in a pole with loads of other employees that were just going through the motions. And when you decide to feed yourself from that, then the job that you’re in, she looks better as well.
Dr CK Bray [16:21]
Oh, absolutely. And when you take that jump, like you said, the jump can be while you’re currently in your job, and you don’t know where to go, you don’t know what your strengths are. A lot of people say, you know, Chris, I have no idea where I even go or what I do. And I say take that small jump, like you just said, and do something on the side, even if it’s just three or four hours a week and and test a whole bunch of different types of jobs, or positions, or starting a business or go work somewhere, you know, in the evening time or on the weekend that you think you might like and test it and try it and see what you like and what you don’t like. And it makes that jump when it comes time. So much easier. If you’ve had a little bit of time, on your question personal time in the evenings and weekends to test out what you think you might like to do. Because so many careers and jobs nowadays, you can if you went volunteer your time, and I’m telling you nearly every company would say sure we’ll take you on for a little bit if you want to volunteer some time just to see if you actually like the position or you like the company.
David Ralph [17:17]
Life is an experiment where we’re happy to go in the kitchen and get the jars out and play around. And if we don’t like it, throw it in the bin and think it didn’t work. And in our life, I’m starting to feel that it’s bad as well, we should take a bit of a take a bit of that. See if it tastes Well, if it doesn’t, we’re try something else. Don’t just have to stay eating the same sandwich, a bit of a silly analogy, but you get my feeling that we’ve always eaten, we can be creative, and we can experiment.
Dr CK Bray [17:47]
Absolutely, you don’t have to do the same thing over and over again. And for your listeners who are in their 20s, I say now’s the time for you to really look. Because if someone would have if I would have heard a podcast like yours, and listen to all them in my 20s I’d be in such a different place much earlier in my life. Because I would have thought to, you know, take take a lot of jobs, take risks, look at different companies, what do I love to do and really analysed and self reflected. And boy, it would have made my 30s a lot easier. So for those who are in their 20s, I encourage now’s the time to really decide what you want to do and find out what you like doing and what you’re good at.
David Ralph [18:23]
Right? Let’s take you back in time, let’s take you down to the little CRISPR a little boy before the doctor bit became there. And one of the you know, the tagline for the show is building our future by connecting our past. And it’s a theme that I’ve become very interested in. Because I’ve kind of stumbled across this. But now I think to myself this this is true. If we look back at the young, tiny little CRISPR a running around the garden and doing the things that you were doing because you love to doing them. Were you the kind of kid who would always be there helping your friends and supporting them and running clubs and that kind of stuff. Where’s your natural talent that you’re finding now? And you’re flourishing in? always bear but you’d forgotten it somewhere along the way.
Dr CK Bray [19:08]
David, you nailed it on the head. 100%. Because as a young man, you know, in elementary school, middle school, high school, I loved doing exactly what I’m doing now, I love getting to know people, I loved networking. You know, I loved being the person who was helping other people. But most importantly, I loved to actually find out about people’s lives, like what they love to do, where they wanted to go what they wanted to accomplish. And so in high school, I was often the one asking, Well, what are you going to do what what school you’re going to go to Why? What do you want to study, and it is exactly what I do now it’s just finding out about people and what they want to do, and then helping them reach it. So it is taking what I did when I was really young, and nearly doing the same thing as an adult. And if you think about it, so many people don’t have anybody asking those questions, spouses, boyfriends, girlfriends, significant others. How many people really dig in and say, you know, what do you want to do? And what do you want to accomplish? And what do you think you can do? And even more important, I think you can do more than that? I really do. And I’ll help you get there. That is an amazing thing. When someone says that to you. I really believe it is.
David Ralph [20:15]
So why do you think, Chris, that you forgot what your natural talent was? until later? You know, you had the clues? You were already doing it? You knew what you loved? Why did you step away? Like, like literally all of us do? You know, I’m not preaching to anyone, we all do this because we get to a certain point. And we almost dispel the fact that the things that we light can provide value, because they just seem so easy. It was almost like playing, why did you step away from it?
Dr CK Bray [20:45]
Are you trying to make me cry? Is that what you’re trying to do?
David Ralph [20:48]
I would love to make a man cry after I started with the heterosexual comment at the beginning.
Dr CK Bray [20:54]
Oh, um, what happened was is I followed the path that I thought everyone should follow, you know, that the world told me at that time, you know, in the mid 90s, and late 90s, early 2000s, that you should be working for somebody that you should be focused on getting promoted, forget what you want to do, or forget what you’re good at, just go to big corporate, and, you know, provide provide for yourself, buy the house, go on vacation once a year have a family. And it was just like the prescribed path. That unfortunately, I never stopped to say, you know, is this really what I want to do? And and I think I did say it to myself. But like you said I wouldn’t recognise it, I wouldn’t acknowledge it. So I just did what I thought I was supposed to do. And I was I would say Dave, I was a trooper, because I did it a lot longer than a lot of people I know, you know, 17 years in corporate America. And then finally, one day, it came to be where I just can’t, I can’t do it anymore. So I prescribed to what the world said, just do this, do this. And then when I realised everything else that was out there, when I just average you, and and you have to realise six months ago, I didn’t even really know anything about podcasting or you know, a lot of the online world. But when I discovered you and I know you hear this name all the time you talk about him during almost every but Pat Flynn and some of these other individuals that I realised, wait a second. And for me, it wasn’t so much about the money It was so much about I love what I do. And I have an area that not a lot of people have access to the information because they have to pay for, you know, career development or career counsellor? And how about if I give it away for free, and I have never been so happy in my life, I’m telling you, it just is every day I get up, I think, you know, I’m helping people and you get the emails, you know, you talk about and you get the emails, and people appreciate you think this is what matters. This is what matters for me and what I should be doing.
David Ralph [22:47]
I did something today, which I think is the right decision to do. I actually had an email from a listener. And it was a lovely email really sort of being open. And you know, how we’re changing our life. And she’s so glad that she’s found us and all that kind of stuff. And then she sent us another one. And I thought you know, she’s really listening. And this is to you, Charlotte, I mentioned to you before, and yet you’re here again. And so Episode 89 recorded today, you’re Episode 74. And I do sort of them, I shift them around a bit. So we don’t get all the same kind of people, it sort of buries it all the way through the conversation, I was talking to a lady and I was thinking this would help Charlotte, this would help Charlotte. And I’ve never met this lady at all, I’ve just had these three or four emails when she’s really opened her heart. And I was listening to it. And I thought, as soon as I finished this show, instead of me setting it up to go live on the 26th of July, which is going to, I’m going to send it over to her and I’m going to give her as a gift. And I said to her in the email, I said, Look, you’re going to be the only person on earth. But here’s this until the 26th of July. But I want you to listen to it. And I want you to listen to it closely. And I know she will. Because there’s a key in here. And I think it’s the key your life. And I don’t know why I had that feeling so strongly. But when I sent it, it suddenly made me realise that the podcast isn’t just me. When I started it, it was about me creating income for myself ultimately, enjoying myself and providing value. But now I realise it can actually change lives. And you know, as SpiderMan says, With great power comes great responsibility. And it suddenly has dawned on me along the line here that by putting your voice into people’s ears, like we’re doing, you have got so much responsibility. Probably more than radio hosts who are doing it as a job were choosing to do this. So I think there’s an emotion that comes out that people are responding to and responding to in a crazily passionate way. And I love it. Did you have you had emails and stuff where you kind of go? Whoa, whoa, I you know, this is bigger than I expected it was ever going to be?
Dr CK Bray [25:02]
Oh, absolutely. When when I started and I’d love to hear when it when it hit for you as well. But when I started, I just thought oh, maybe I’ll I’ll have 50 people listen, of which 49 where my family and friends. And maybe one other person would find it. It was men than it was your David. That’s right. It was the picture you were attracted to the picture. But it and then as it grew, I realised and then in my mind, I thought it was the topic of people really need this topic of their careers. And what should they do and where they go in which what can they accomplish in life and, and still support themselves? And then within even about three weeks, I started getting emails saying, oh, that podcast, became it just a time I was making a decision. And you justified my decision. You You said to me, you know, like you said in my year that I exactly I was making the right decision. And it was perfect timing. And thanks to you know, I’m a step closer to where I should be. And it was in that moment, I would sit there. And really these have become dinner discussions for us in our family of how people reacted because it is amazing to me, first of all, how open and honest people will email me and what they’ll say, but how much we are helping. And I never even realised I mean, I wanted to, but then it makes me really now. Boy, I plan my podcast more I spend more time researching. I’m very careful about what I say and how I portray the information. Because I do want to give everything possibly I can in the in the podcast, and each one that I actually finished.
David Ralph [26:30]
So how for the people that haven’t listened to your show? And I know it’s just a small part of what you do. How do you actually structure it, you come up with a subject. And Ben, tell us so that the listeners out there, and don’t leave me listeners don’t suddenly go, Oh, he sounds better than you and go over in it right? Just go over there and have it or peak and then come back to me. But how do you actually structure your shows?
Dr CK Bray [26:54]
Well, David, actually, I think our podcasts really complement each other. I mean, because you give so much in formation, and people get to get to hear others. Now my podcast is 15 to 20 minutes. It’s very much like on a commute to work or during exercise. And I haven’t had any guests on yet I choose a topic. And then I speak to the topic and give storeys examples. And then usually some instructions or ideas of here’s how you make this happen in 15 or 20 minutes, and I base it on theory. Now, hopefully you’ll never know it’s based on theory, because theory oftentimes is boring. But I try to get through and storeys so that people can realise, oh, you know, Oxford and Harvard and Wharton and all these have done, done a million studies on careers, that unfortunately, the general public doesn’t know those studies. So I try to take them and put them into storeys, and examples and steps that people can take. And I try to do it in a fun and entertaining, but also a very thought provoking way. And how its structured is initially the first probably 10 take you through the first steps of how to develop your career. And from there on out, I just take topics that seem to be what I’m hearing from emails, or from some of my clients are in corporate America, what seemed to be the hot topics, and I’ll build the podcast around that. But I do want to kind of turn more into what you’re doing, where I’m interviewing people, I’m just trying to lay the foundation first. I mean, we’re only up to about 20 I think we’re going to release Episode 20 here early next week. And just as fun we added what we call therapy Thursday’s, which we take a topic about, you know something about emotional intelligence, or how to deal with conflict at work. And we talked about that, it’s all sorts of fun, we have you pull up the couch, sit down and and take a listen. And we work those issues out. So it’s, we have a good time,
David Ralph [28:38]
you know, I must have listened to about 15 of your episodes. And when I boy, I was doing this show, I listened to a lot of them. And although I do an hour show, a lot of the ones I really liked, were be our show, and I just haven’t got time really in a moment to sit there. And I like yours because I are 1520 minutes and you you start them you get the content out. And it’s very structured, I come from a training environment. So I like the way that you really clearly have a beginning, middle and end. You know what the message is at the end, and you structure everything to get through to that. And you do it in such a short, precise time. What I didn’t like about you, Mr. Bry, was on episode one. You sound as good as you are on episode 20. Now,
Dr CK Bray [29:24]
I disagree. I
David Ralph [29:25]
did you did it. I listened to this and I thought really has he recorded 100 of these and then deleted them seek secretly practising. How did you do it? Did you just go record bang? And or was it? Was it more kind of a process that you developed yourself? Because talking on the mic is very different? Isn’t it? You You don’t talk in the same way as you would normally to went once you’re on the mic?
Dr CK Bray [29:48]
Oh, absolutely. those first few episodes. David, if I told you how many times I re recorded those episodes over and over again. Oftentimes my kids my wife would come in said, Dad, you said that like 15 minutes ago. are you repeating yourself on? Nope. I’m just starting over. But I did. I am lucky. And I will admit, when I went to college, I did a lot of Broadcast Communications. So I had a lot of practice. And even when I as a kid, I wanted to be a game show host you mentioned it. And I would watch every game so I can name any game show and tell you about the game. And of course I practice I should should I even admit this to you. But I had practice in the mirror as a as a young boy under the age of 10 with my microphone and about how I was going to be a game show host and practice introducing people and tell them to come on down. And I think that a lot of hours in front of the mirror. practising being a game show host has helped me somewhat but I do feel I listened to people like you. And it’s so smooth. And I will say this as well, David, that a lot of times when I listened to an hour podcast, I’ll put it on iTunes on times too. So it goes by really fast. But on yours. I don’t do that because I never want to miss one of your you know, quick witted quips that you throw in all the time. So you I put you on normal speed.
David Ralph [30:59]
But it’s very nice. I think my wife would like me to be on double speed. It’s true in everything I do just get it over and done with now I shouldn’t shouldn’t be saying that. But it is interesting. Because I haven’t recorded anything i was i was clear that when I pressed record on episode no point five. That was the very first thing that I ever said into a microphone. And now I’m on episode 100. I can hear the improvement. But I was firm on the fact but I want to people if they were interested to follow the journey, I knew that when we do anything in life, we benchmark ourselves against success. And it’s very rare that we get the opportunity to go back in here the very first things that anyone’s ever done, or the very first writings I made, because quite often they will get rid of that because they’re embarrassed about it. Now I listened back I’ve actually listened back to you know, not all my shows, but a few of them. And I can hear the way that the competence has grown. I think there was an N episode when I finally decided, yes, I am the host. And I shouldn’t be so Uber grateful that people have on my show, it should be an equal balance. And I think in my first shows, I was too respectful. And I think it came across. And I didn’t realise but only I went for a drink with some people that I used to work with. And they said to me, really liked the shows, but it’s not quite you is it You seem to be holding back and I went Am I am I holding back? And when I listened, I thought yeah, you’re right, I am holding back. So I think it does come to a point when you’ve got to go, oh, let’s go for it. And let’s see how it flies. And it’s when you do bad. That’s when it flies. That’s the funny thing. Once you actually become yourself, we say the same thing again, that is when you suddenly get yourself sprayed in Rocket Power, and you should go shooting forward.
Dr CK Bray [32:50]
I agree. And I think I need to take your advice, because I have received that same advice. I saw some old friends last week. And they’re like, Chris, same thing. It’s good. But boy, sometimes we’re missing that spark of just you saying things off the cuff and some things that you know, are a little sarcastic. And we need more of that. Because people need to know who you are. So I’m going to take that advice. And probably one of the best reasons as on the show is to get that advice. And I’m going to take and see what happens. Throw it in no rerecording. Yeah, absolutely just press the button boom.
David Ralph [33:21]
And I had some questions that halfway through the question. I couldn’t even remember what the question was myself. And the the guests would say to me, sorry, I don’t really understand that. And I go to them, you know, I don’t understand it either. I have no idea what I was talking about my mind was kind of thinking about what they just said and what the next question was, and all those kind of things. And my mouth was just operating on automatic pilot with no quality control, applying any brakes on it at all. And I was just, I was just going on three, four. But I look back on it now. And I think that actually was my comfort level increasing. That was me finding my swing. Now, if we take away from me and you because we do like to talk about ourselves, when you find somebody in corporate land, who hasn’t found their swing, but they’re very close to it. And you can see they’re very close to it. How do you get them to that peak performance when they can’t actually it might just be doing one thing slightly differently here or one thing slightly differently bear or just a change your mindset? How can you actually do that for them?
Dr CK Bray [34:28]
Well, I’ll first say the emotion around that when I see somebody who is so close to excelling, whether it be in their current job, or if they do want to make a switch, that it is heartbreaking to see somebody so close to that, and not be able to take that very last step. It’s just like the last step before you jump is always the scariest. And so oftentimes, what I find I have to do is I have to be the one to say the words that very few people will say, you know, the very blunt, forceful, you know, this is your time, what is going to happen, you don’t do this, or if you don’t take the jump, or you don’t take this step, you know, how’s it going to make you feel what type of person are you going to be? And I really try to get them to not only see the future of what it is, but what it means to the bigger universe, what it means to their family and friends, what it means to people that they could affect. And there was one, just a quick example, there was a young man who was 35, and was ready to take a jump and he was brilliant and smart, witty, like you and just really needed to have his own business. And he just continues to afraid, because he just bought a house, you know, all the things that get us caught up. And and I said to him, you’re going to come back to me in 10 years at 45. And I’m telling you, you’re going to be crying in my office, you’re probably going to have lost your spouse, because the road you’re heading is absolute despair. I can tell you, I’ve seen it before. And then not only that, but all the people that you’re not going to be able to affect your being absolutely 100% selfish. I’ve never seen somebody so selfish, who want to take that step, not just for you. But for everybody else, you can affect everybody you can affect. And it took him about a week to swallow that, you know, that big of a pill. And he called me up about a week to week and a half later and said, I did it today I turned in my notice. And he’s gone on to be a great success. So and sometimes the success is an immediate, and that’s okay, because like you said, you need to learn your skill and your trading, it takes a little bit of time. But taking that first step is the step to happiness and joy and really do what you’re meant to do and helping others.
David Ralph [36:33]
And in your selling point is, you know, if you spoke to me as you’re speaking to me now, I would listen to everything you’re saying because I know that leap of faith that you’re talking about, you’ve actually been through that, that scary last step you actually did. But you’ve come out on the other side. Do you surprise that you manage to do that after all those years, because it’s a big thing, even going back and doing an MBA and PhD. I’m hugely impressed by that, because I know I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t study anymore. I studied years ago. And I’ve now got a mindset. But if it doesn’t naturally play to my skills, I can’t really be bothered. But you went back and you you studied. And that’s going to be really hard to do. So. That guy you look back on. Was he always there? Was he always going to make that leap of faith? Or are you surprised that he did it?
Dr CK Bray [37:24]
Well, I think David a little bit of both. I look back at that guy who outwardly looked so confident, and so ready to do it and no fear and I you know, I’m going to make everything a success. And then inside, I was so fearful. I was so frightened. And I often delayed it. I will say by going to school now I needed the schooling. But I thought, oh, I’ll take the leap once I finished my masters. Oh, okay, I’ll take the leap once I finished the coursework for my PhD. Oh, not quite yet. Okay, now I’m going to take the leap once I actually finished and the PhD and I walk in and get my cap, you know, my cap and gown and diploma. And finally, I will say with the help and push of my wife and my family and some great friends, that I actually did it because I was terrified. And to all the people who are listening your audience, it is terrifying for everybody. But if you get someone to help you through it, then you know you can make it and you have someone you can turn to when it gets rough. And it gets tough and hard and difficult. Now, I think I would have done it. But I’m glad I did it when I did. And it was hard. Oh, it was hard. And there were restless nights and staying up thinking Can I make it go? And now I look and think oh, if I would have had help in my late 20s, early 30s. But everything works out for a reason. I need the education for my field. So where I’m at now is perfect timing is all come together perfectly.
David Ralph [38:47]
And you gotta have faith, don’t you? George Michael said that. And if I’m if I’m ever laying on my deathbed, I want the words that George Michael w plant. I really don’t. But what I do
Dr CK Bray [39:01]
one of the songs that was inappropriate.
David Ralph [39:03]
Yeah, many of them are nowadays. But one person’s words that I would love to be going through my head is the words of Steve Jobs that I’m going to play here. Now we do this generally at this part of the show. And I think you you’ve given us the feeling of that you had that fight, but it was all going to work out. Right. So this is Steve Jobs.
Steve Jobs [39:24]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leaves you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [39:59]
what those words mean to you Dr. burry, when you hear them,
Dr CK Bray [40:03]
they strike right to my heart because they are so true. Looking out 44 to my 20s and 30s. It took the time to connect the dots. And now looking back, I can see that they’re so connected. But when I was in my 30s and going through the changes in schooling, they just didn’t connect. I thought it’s never going to happen. For me, it’s happening for everybody else, but it’s not going to happen for me. But when you look back, they do connect just as long as you’re doing your best self reflecting and looking at saying what am I good at? What could I possibly do? That’s when they connect, like you said, karma, the universe the world, it all seems to work out. It’s just sometimes we have to take a breath and let it work for our good.
David Ralph [40:44]
I love those words, because they are so simple, aren’t they? They are so simple. They’re so powerful. And they do touch you you even if it’s the first time that you’ve heard them and your young man and I played these these words to guess on the show that was 17 and even vape their life could go Yeah, I can see that already. I can see that path building up is the simplicity of the words, but give it its power.
Dr CK Bray [41:12]
Oh, absolutely. And as a young person looking back if I was in my 20s. Boy, if you could trust those who’ve gone before you and say yes, it does work out, just give it your best. Do your best, work hard and look for what you’re good at, they will work out and you’ll be surprised at the great good that you do.
David Ralph [41:29]
If we take you back to your most unhappy period, as you were saying, would you would you now class that as your big dots, I’m quite focused on the big dog is the one where you suddenly changed direction or you decide to do something that you look back and you go, if it wasn’t for that occurring. I don’t think I would be where I am. It’s where so many people who are in the dream killers I call it contentment zone. When life isn’t so bad. It isn’t so good. But just one week, one year rolls on into another. Do you have a moment that you could go back and go Yes, that was my big.oh. Absolutely.
Dr CK Bray [42:09]
And buckle up for this one because it it was a big dot. And like you said, I had a great corporate job. I was so comfortable. I was content. I was mediocre. I hate to say it now I did. I did a great job. I won awards, did the whole nine yards. But I was so mediocre in the quick storey this is I have taken my girls, I try once a month to take them they go get their nails done at the nail salon and their feet done. And I had grabbed the Harvard Business Review to read while they were getting their feet and hands done their nails painted. And I looked at the front covers, I sat down and I saw a name that looked familiar. And it was the name of a gentleman that I had gone to school with college with who was a friend, you know, a good acquaintance that sometimes our groups did things together. And I opened it up. And I started reading the article and my wife was was right next me. And in it I saw that he had been like a Harvard Business Professor network, both the same age, Harvard Business professor, he had gotten his, you know, Harvard MBA, he had sold a company for 20 million billion dollars and was wealthy. And he had just been named CEO of a large company. And I remember sitting there thinking, I am such a loser, like I am a failure. What have I done. Now the key point for me is, first of all, I just felt so horrible that this had happened. And then I realised I didn’t want what he had, you know, I didn’t want to grow this big company and sell and I didn’t want to be a CEO, but that I wasn’t chasing the dream that I wanted to chase and I wanted to do, and that I was just settling to make the good paycheck, to take the vacations and to live a comfortable life. But then it was time for me to actually take those steps. And in fact, I was so depressed, I left early stop and got to not and I like to exercise on a pretty healthy guy stopped and got to quarter pounders with a extra cheese. In fact, I’ll never forget, the lady was like, boy, you’re going crazy. Today, you want like three slices of cheese,
David Ralph [44:06]
Dr CK Bray [44:08]
two big fries, and I went home and just ate and ate to drown my sorrows. And I look back now and that was my big dot. That was the moment I thought I could do so much more, but not what others wanted me to do, or what I thought they were successful at. But to do what I wanted to do. That was my diet.
David Ralph [44:27]
I like the fact that there are people like you in the world I’m on my mission is to get more people like you in the world. Because if we will, singing and dancing and really playing to our strengths, I think a lot of the issues in the world might be a simplistic view, but I think it might be alleviated somehow, because the place would be more contented. What’s your what’s your mission? With your career revolution? Where can you see it going?
Dr CK Bray [44:55]
Well, where I hope to see it go and like you said the dots will continue to connect is I just want to reach more people and give them as much information, you know, free of charge as I can to help change their careers. I want people to feel like that. Hopefully, this show grows big enough that worldwide people know where to go to get career advice, because it doesn’t change. No matter what country you’re in, the principles and the theory are all the same. And it’s just a matter of reaching those people to say, you know, you can make the changes, you can get promoted, you can go to a different department, you go to a different company, you can start your own business, that there are ways to do it. And here are the ways that people have done it, that they have been successful. Because I would like people know, thousands of people have gone before you and they’ve done this, and they’ve been successful, and you’ll be able to do it. And then guess what, once you do it, then you’ll be able to help others. So hopefully, it’ll grow and I can reach more people. And that will build a community that helps other people so that they’ll have people to reach out to and say, here’s where I’m stuck helped me out. So hopefully we’ll get a big community that people are helping each other to find and build the career that they want, whether it’s in corporate America or small business, or an entrepreneur, any of the above.
David Ralph [46:04]
Because the opportunities nowadays, you know, you’re playing to your strengths, and you’re driving people into opportunities, aren’t you just the fact that we are online. And I say this all the time, because it still blows my mind, I still don’t really understand how the internet works. To be honest, I don’t understand how I can press a button. And I can speak to you and I can download films. And then I’m sure there’s clever people out there, that could explain it. But as I said earlier, I don’t really care editor education is gone now. So all I do is press this button and it works. But it is an opportunity, we have got the opportunities of a lifetime. And you couldn’t have done this 1015 years ago, you have to have a big network and a big server and whatever. But the fact that you can do this on a shoestring and literally create a life changing income, if you do it well enough. It beggars belief, doesn’t it?
Dr CK Bray [47:00]
Absolutely 100% in and everything will lead you up to being successful in that area. Because no longer and I love this from Seth Godin. No longer do you have to have people choose you choose you for a promotion, or choose you for a job. If you’re not getting chosen, then choose yourself and do something because like you said, you can do a podcast or a blog, or have a website for absolutely, hardly anything. And that gives you the opportunity to get your voice out there. And it will grow. If you’re authentic to your voice and your strengths. And you want to make a difference in people’s lives, you’re going to be successful, it’ll grow.
David Ralph [47:35]
Can you say that Seth Godin quote again, because I don’t want people to miss that. Because that that is the the nugget that is the gold in these hills. If you could say that, again,
Dr CK Bray [47:44]
sure, if people aren’t choosing you, then choose yourself. And that can be life changing, because you can be successful. And you may not believe it now. But you can be successful. Like I said, if you work to your strengths, and I think you can me, David, if you work to your strengths, and you want to do good out there, and you become exceptional or excellent at what you do, you’re going to be successful and change people’s lives. And you can do it. And I love how you said this. For a shoestring budget, you don’t have to be rich, you don’t have to have a huge network. Because once you start putting that out there, people are going to learn about you and share your information. And it just grows from there. And it’s it’s a fantastic opportunity that we only have in the world today. I mean, it’s amazing what’s happened,
David Ralph [48:27]
you’ve got a podcast. So and I have and the people that aren’t interested in podcast only listening to them. There’s this thing that when you create a podcast, hopefully you get enough traction, but you get put into a section called new and noteworthy on iTunes. And effectively when you log onto iTunes, it’s at the top. So hopefully you get a lot of new listeners to the show. And we’re both in new and noteworthy. And you’ve been there for a while. And I’ve been there for a while. And I’m just coming to this eight week bit when I’m going to drop off. And I hear so many people go, Oh, I’m dreading the idea. I’m going to bring it on, I really want to, I really want to know what my actual proper audience is, and not this kind of inflated audience. Because when I’ve got that that level ground to actually start working with, do you do feel the same? Because I just seem to have that mentality. But I don’t hear out there. But other people seem to be, you know, always a bad thing when it’s taken away. But I think it’s almost a bad thing that is given to us.
Dr CK Bray [49:24]
I absolutely agree. Because I think just let’s talk about your podcast is yes, it gets shown to you know, millions of people and you get lots of listeners and downloads. But then what happens is when we’re doing things like we’re doing today, that when you fall off new and noteworthy, like, yes, we may see a little bit of a drop initially. But then what’s going to happen is, you know, I’ve been on your show, and I’m thinking point, David is such a great guy, and I’m going to talk about you on my blog, I’m going to have you on my show here, when I start interviewing people. And it just grows from there in a way that will get listeners and people who you know, want to listen and one want to stick around. And those are the people that we want to reach. So I’m like you I’m not even worried. And if I drop off a little bit, that’s okay, because I’m going to reach the right people who need to hear at the right time.
David Ralph [50:11]
My favourite quote on this, and I should have it in my office while I’m recording now because I love this quote. And you’d expect most quotes to come from people like Gandy and Abraham Lincoln and all those. But this is Steve Martin, and he says, just be so good that they can’t ignore you anymore. Yes, I love that. I love that. And I love the fact that if you spin on his head, what he’s also saying is, while you are being ignored, you can make all the mistakes you like, and you can get better and better and better. And then suddenly, you’re the overnight success. But there’s years and years and years of honing your craft becoming more passionate, building a platform until people actually go Oh, did you hear Chris BRAVIA buddy, he was brilliant. Oh, I’ve never heard of him. And Ben, it starts getting going. But at that point, you should be good. And you will get noticed.
Dr CK Bray [51:06]
I absolutely agree. And even look at your podcasts and having listened to your podcast. It absolutely. I think from the beginning to now not only are you good and I will say I love your quick whips are your quick quips, there we go. And also your sense of humour, and your quotes and things. And just your authenticity. That’s what I’ve loved about your your show is you’re so authentic about what you’re doing and the information that you’re sharing, I have no doubt I’ll just hang on to your coattails is you, you know, get more listeners and you’re doing such good things out there in such an entertaining way. That’s what makes it so fun. As afterwards I I often jot down some of your quotes and think I’ve got I’ve got to share that that is so good. So I sure appreciate your show.
David Ralph [51:48]
I appreciate that very much. Just before I say goodbye to you, this is the last part of the show. And then you can go off into Arizona land and run around the desert. This is the Sermon on the mic. And this is the part of the show when I send you back in time to your younger self probably looks the same age as you do. Now, I don’t like to say that. But what would you do? If you could have a one on one with the young? Dr. Bray? Would you put an arm around them and give them words of wisdom? Or would you just sort of ignore them. So I’m going to play the music. And when it fades out, you’re up on the mic, and this is the Sermon on the mic.
Dr CK Bray [52:48]
What I would say to myself, if I went back 20 years would be chill out and enjoy the journey. And don’t worry about the things that you’re worried about now. Because in five 10 years, those things aren’t going to matter at all. What will matter is start something that you love to do start something that you’re good at. And even though it’s small, just watch it grow over the years. And in doing that, look and see how you can help others and you’ll be successful. And the success may initially not be monetary or money. But it’ll be in sharing information. And in sharing and helping others get to where they want to be. And in the end, it will all come together. So don’t worry now just worry more about doing what you love, and what you’re good at. And even if you start small, over 510 15 years, it’s going to grow and it will be something that you can be proud of.
David Ralph [53:41]
And no small gains are the important thing right now, if you look at the big picture of what you’re aiming to achieve, you’re never going to start because it’s too big. It’s too scary.
Dr CK Bray [53:51]
Yes, yes, absolutely.
David Ralph [53:55]
Well, it’s been an absolute delight having you on the show. And I know all our listeners out there are going who is good looking man, I better check him out. So how do they connect with you?
Dr CK Bray [54:05]
Oh, you can find me on the web at Dr. ck bray.com. That’s Dr. ck br a y. com. I have a website there. And you can find my blog. And you can find my podcast, which is career revolution. And on the website, I have some fun, some fun and motivating one minute career tip videos. I also have a monthly newsletter, I send out twice a month that gives information on careers and how to get promoted and how to deal with your crazy boss and how to, you know, change jobs if you need to change jobs. So there’s lots of information there for you. And I love to hear from people. So if you have a question that you can’t find an answer for on the website, or on the blog or podcast, email me and I’ll make sure that if I don’t send it right back to you the answer that I put it on a podcast or blog, and I’ll let you know when it’s coming up.
David Ralph [54:55]
Dr. Bray, thank you so much for spending time with us today joining up those dots. And please come again when you have more dots to join up. Because I really do believe that by joining up those dots and connecting our paths is the best chance we have to build our futures. Dr. Bray Thank you so much.
Dr CK Bray [55:11]
Thank you David for having me. You’re welcome to Arizona anytime and it’s been just really been fun to talk with you.
David doesn’t want you to become a fated version of the brilliant self you are wants to become. So he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to Join Up Dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on Join Up Dots.