John Lagoudakis Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast
To subscribe to the podcast, please use the links below:
Introducing John Lagoudakis
John Lagoudakis is our guest today, on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots free podcast interview is a man.
He is known as one of the top Online Marketers in Australia, and thrives on teaching people, and delivering targeted leads to his customers.
He started with his own computer support business in 2003, and then moved to online businesses and has been working from home full time since 2008.
During that time he has became a top 100 Clickbank affiliate, earning commision on automatic pilot.
However it hasn’t always been plain sailing as a couple of setbacks he has dealt with over the years included having his Google Adwords account suspended
(90% decrease in income overnight!), and his Youtube account also (hundreds of videos and traffic and sales gone overnight).
How The Dots Joined Up For John
So how did he get past those “Oh my god, why is this happening to me…?” moments that we all have to deal with as we build the dream?
Well we will find out, but he has certainly done just that, as he is back on top (where his efforts deserve)
And now he has pivoted and helps businesses create lead generation campaigns on Facebook and Google that bring in at least a 5:1 return on investment.
So when he looks back on his first computer business, does he smile knowingly at what he thought was success back then?
And what is the biggest lesson that he has had forced on him over the years, which he never ever lets go off as he continues to move forward with his business?
Well lets find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr. John Lagoudakis
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with John Lagoudakis such as:
Why it is so important to have email lists that are targeted for the customer…speak to them in the language that they understand.
Why John recalls going to University but hating it due to choosing an interest that just didn’t light him up inside. Always go with what feels good and not what you think is good.
Why all success starts with digging downwards. You cannot build success without the hole to sink your foundations – Brilliant advice.
How Johns minimises the risk of marketing for his clients by working closely with them – before getting paid himself. He states this makes him work harder for both himself and his clients.
How To Connect With John Lagoudakis
If you enjoyed this episode with John Lagoudakis then why not listen to some of our favourite podcast episodes such as Jake Kelfer, Sally Armstrong, Fiona Sampson or the amazing John Cavendish
Or if you prefer just pop over to our podcast archive for thousands of amazing episodes to choose from.
Full Transcription Of John Lagoudakis Interview
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK, David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:24]
Yes. Hello World. How are we? How are we welcome to Join Up Dots. If you’ve never listened to an episode of Join Up Dots, don’t worry. This is where it all starts getting good with today’s guests. And if you have been there before, and you’ve been with us, thank you so much for making the show while it is global hit show. And I’m gonna keep on saying that because it makes me feel good. Now today’s guest on the show is a man who’s known as one of the top online marketers in Australia. I think he is a top online marketer, and he thrives on teaching people and delivering targeted leads to his customers now. He started with his own computer support business in 2003 and then moved to online businesses and has been working from home full time since 2008. During that time, it’s become a top 100 Clickbank affiliate earning Commission on automatic pilot, however, however, people it hasn’t always been plain sailing as a couple of setbacks he’s had to deal with over the years include having his Google AdWords account suspended. I shouldn’t laugh because that happened to me, but 90% decrease in income overnight, and his YouTube account also hundreds of videos and traffic and sales gone overnight. How did he get past those? Oh, my God, why is this happening to me moments that we all have to deal with as we build the dream? Well, we’ll find out but he’s certainly done just that is he’s back on top where his efforts deserve. Now he’s pivoted and helps businesses create lead generation campaigns on Facebook, and Google that brings in at least a five to one return on investment. So when he looks back on his first computer business, does he smile knowingly at what he thought was success back then? And what’s the biggest lesson that he’s had forced on him over the years, which he never ever? Lets go off as he continues to move forward with his business? Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show, to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr. John Lagoudakis. Good morning, john. How are you sir?
John Lagoudakis [2:18]
Hey, I’m doing really well. Thanks so much, Dave. Really appreciate being on the show with you.
David Ralph [2:22]
It’s great to have you on and be honest. Be honest. Did I now have a name? Because I had it right in front of me. It did.
John Lagoudakis [2:29]
You did extremely well. It excellent.
David Ralph [2:31]
Is that from from Greek descendants? Or somewhere? Where does that name come from?
John Lagoudakis [2:36]
That is Greek is a Greek name. You know, you did so well. You did better than when I got married. My wife. Remember, we went on our honeymoon? She labelled l l bags? Because we’re on a cruise. Yeah. And she spelt the surname incorrectly. But you did great.
David Ralph [2:52]
Yeah, you should have dumped her. JOHN, you should have dumped her. And it just moved on. So your life has been one of those ones that as I say, I shouldn’t have laughed in the introduction. But it happened to me as well, where you’re building something, you’re putting all your eggs in one basket, and then that company kind of takes it away from you. So I’m going to start with that. And then we’re going to lead to where you are now is, is that a good way of still operating while using Google AdWords and YouTube accounts where effectively they can just look at you one day and say, No, I’m not happy with what you’ve done, send you out a huge free 100 page terms and conditions and says, you know, you’ve done something wrong in there. But they won’t tell you what what you’ve done wrong.
John Lagoudakis [3:36]
That’s exactly what happened. They wouldn’t tell me it was it was terrible because I spent literally hundreds of hours much money 1000s of hours on these Google AdWords campaigns that would bring me in a lot of money each month. A lot of my babies are like I had, I was like promoting 400 or more different Clickbank products. So I had heaps of campaigns, I tweaked them to be hours and hours and hours, weeks, weeks, months, years. And for that to be taken away from me for no reason. They didn’t give me a reason. No, then I’m one of the good guys Trust me. That they Yeah, so anyway, it was it was truly devastating. It was gut wrenching. There was a lot of emotions anger, disbelief. I tried to fight it. But you know what they they would always say to me, oh, read the terms and conditions. It’s there. And I’d look through them I’d read them community guidelines. And I couldn’t see anything else. It’s pretty bad. So I mean, I don’t discourage people from using Google AdWords because I still that’s what I do I help clients with a Google AdWords campaigns. What I do discourage is relying on any one source for your for traffic leads and sales for your business. Yeah,
David Ralph [4:50]
yeah. No, I agree with you. I I do a little bit on YouTube or I have on my shows, podcasts going on there. And I got, he got closed down. He got closed down and I went back to YouTube and I said, you know, what have I done wrong? I haven’t done anything wrong. It’s all my own content and I went terms and conditions, there you go. Exactly the same wouldn’t tell me. And I’ll Sorry, I can’t be bothered YouTube, I don’t need you. So I left it. And then about six months later, I thought, I’m just gonna go back to him and say, What did I do wrong? And I went back to them, and some must have landed on the right desk, the person went, Oh, you haven’t done anything wrong, and I reinstated me instantly. So it’s like the wind wind changes, but what I like the fact that you’ve then learned, but it is a case of making an omelette and not just keeping your eggs in one basket. So how did you proceed through that? How did you go through that mourning stage of, as I say, why is this happening to me?
John Lagoudakis [5:43]
You know, I knew I knew that it was it was a possibility of what’s going to happen. Because I heard of other fit. I was I was promoting other people’s products using Google AdWords. And this was back in 2009, when it was okay to do it. You can’t do that now. He can’t promote products, especially Clickbank products as an affiliate on Google AdWords. And what Google was doing now, I think the problem was there was affiliates out there, because it’s not their product they’re promoting, they were making misleading claims, just to get attention over the competition. And so it was those bad apples that sort of ruined it for everyone. Google said, Forget it. We’re not we’re not making enough money from these affiliate marketers. It’s not the market, we want to focus on there too much trouble, let’s just get rid of them or anyone that’s promoting Clickbank products on Google AdWords, especially in the internet marketing, make money online niche, let’s just ban all their accounts. And so, so I sort of knew was coming. So what I started doing was building my own email list, which I should have started doing earlier. Because then you got control. If you’re building an email list, you can email them whenever you want. Yeah, your autoresponder company might shut down your account. But if you’re keeping backups, you just go and set up somewhere else you take your list and the importance of so and it’s more long term, if when we’re not promoting affiliate products, or sending traffic from Google AdWords straight to a sales page using my affiliate link. That’s terrible. Because, yeah, I might make some sales. But that traffic, I will never be able to take advantage of though that traffic again, it’s gone, it’s lost. So that’s what I did. I did that for many years, I did email marketing, I still do email marketing. And it worked very well for me.
David Ralph [7:27]
And now let’s talk about email lists, because I said something to somebody the other day, and I went, Oh, my God, you did that you did that. And I had 11,000 plus emails on my list through Join Up Dots. And I decided I was going to delete them all. Now, if you haven’t had an email from me for a while, I’m going to explain my reasoning. And I’m going to, I’m going to ask john Webb, I’d gone mad like this other person thought, or actually I have clarity of business. And what I realised john was that I wasn’t Alberto, because he was all in one bucket, it was just people coming over to Join Up Dots, opting in for an email or whatever. And it was all in one bucket bucket, I didn’t know how to talk to them, I didn’t have the right message for each of them. So I was just doing one sort of generic message to the lot. So I’ve got a new website being designed at the moment, and we are focusing it in so if somebody is interested in the content I provide that is travel, they will opt into that one. If somebody likes online business advice, they will. And so it’s going to be more laser targeted. So in my head, the value of the email list, although it’s going to be a lots of little email list is going to be tenfold based on you know what i can understand, but I can speak to them, I can speak about my language. Is that right? Or did I go mad?
John Lagoudakis [8:42]
Oh, I think it’s a great strategy, especially for the type of traffic you’re getting to your website. So not all businesses have that issue. You know, if you’re a travel business, and people come to your site, they you can’t you don’t have to necessarily have separate lists. But if you I mean, I, I like to I I’m doing the same thing that you did previously to sort of have a one on one list, but the best strategy is definitely to separate. Okay, is this someone that’s just starting learning about online advertising? Are they someone that’s interested in traffic? Are they someone that’s interested in webinars are someone interested in Amazon selling products on Amazon, you know, there’s different things and people go through different stages too, you can have someone on your list, and that they’ll have they’ll have different needs at different times. And, and you can tag this great features now with autoresponders, where you don’t necessarily have to have separate lists, but you can tag your leads for your subscribers with specific interests that they have, and then email those that have been tagged with that interest. So as long as you get rare, but I think it’s a great, I think it’s great what you’re doing I think it’s very wise. And I think it’s also another reason it’s good not just for the return on investment. But also, when you let’s say you decide to you’ve got these separate lists and you decide later, David, you know, you’ve had enough of podcasting, which you most probably never will. And I know you’d love doing it and you’ll move till the day you die. But let’s say you decide you had it, you know, you’ve got let’s say, you’ve got a list of travel, people that interested in travel, you can go on and resell that to someone else later on. And it’s and that’s because that’s where the value of business businesses are is in the list.
David Ralph [10:33]
John Lagoudakis jumping in so somebody out there that has got a business, but they just get tired of it don’t want to just sort of walk away from it, they can actually share that. Now that makes total sense, but I’d never considered that it was possible.
John Lagoudakis [10:46]
Yeah, yeah. And, and so by you doing what you’re doing, you’ve got you have several opportunities, and you you’re creating multiple businesses for yourself.
David Ralph [10:55]
I’m gonna quit now john, I’m gonna quit and sell all my email list. I’m just gonna, I’m just gonna now I can, as you say, this is it. This is it. You’re gonna be coming over to Join Up Dots in about 50 years time. I’m just gonna be some haggard old man. rambling the man, the Mad ramblings of a 90 year old, but it’s still gonna be my thing. So when did you realise it was your thing? When When did you realise that? Actually? Yeah, all the things that I had been doing had been leading up to where I am now as the top. And I’m gonna say top john, online marketer in Australia.
John Lagoudakis [11:28]
Yeah. Is it just the day? Well, thank you. I appreciate that. You know, it’s interesting. I never had aspirations to be an internet marketer. When I was growing up, I’m sure. You know, when I was growing up, it didn’t. There wasn’t a such thing as internet marketing. It did happen. Just in stages, really, by accident. And you know what, I still I still don’t even know what I want to be when I grow up. So that for me, it’s so what happened was I yeah, I really never had any burning ambitions. When I was young to be anything specific. I remember I was I did very well at school. I was good at math. I was good at art. So I decided when I finished high school, I would do an architecture degree University, because that would marry the two subjects. And that’s, that’s all. That’s the only reason I chose architecture because I thought, Oh, you mess. Let’s put the two together. Seriously, I didn’t know anything about architecture, working as an architect. I lasted a year and a half at uni. I was it was very tough. It’s a six year full time degree. A year and a half into it. I just wasn’t motivated, I just wasn’t motivated a lot of work or was failing subjects. Just to hit my head was not in the right place. Anyway, long, long story short, I came I went away for a couple of years actually served as a full time proselyting missionary in Melbourne from Sydney, I served in Melbourne came back 90, it was 1999. And sort of my heads on straight again, sort of you know, sort of get in a better place. And it was huge back in 1999. Because everyone thought plant planes gonna be dropping out of the sky, January the first 2000 because of all the computer systems if they weren’t y2k compliant, so it contractors are getting paid ridiculous amounts of money to do hardly anything. And there’s a lot of opportunities in it. And I look I was interested in computers, I went to bought a computer, we didn’t did a course GOT GOT Microsoft Certified very quickly and landed my first job within months. And, you know, I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed computers it I was in Help Desk doing that. And I would have just kept doing that rest of my life. But what happened was, as I worked my way up, helpdesk systems administrator, and then when I got married, and we had our first child, my wife and I, we were living in a different state, we moved to Brisbane, Queensland, we didn’t have any family around us was just us. And my wife, we had a lot of support. So I didn’t, I didn’t, the nine to five job just wasn’t working out for me. So that’s when I started my own IT support business, which gave me more flexibility. So I was working out of my home office, I go on site and help small medium sized businesses with their computer systems. And they can get more flexibility. But as the business grew and I got busier and busier even that wasn’t good enough for me, it was just too much running around. And so what really changed things for me, Dave was a read Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki, right. Okay. Have you read that book? Oh, you know much about it. I listened
David Ralph [14:37]
to the audio version and it bought me maybe I have to read it but it was some droney old person just I don’t think I’m good with audiobooks, so I stopped.
John Lagoudakis [14:47]
Okay, well, I read the book. And it was it for me. It just changed everything. It made me look at life, especially income generation. wealth creation totally changed my paradigm. Totally. And so I, I decided, Okay, I’m going to, I want to create income streams that don’t rely on me exchanging my time for money. And so one of the things Robert Kiyosaki recommends in the book, if you’re just starting out, he says, try to try network marketing, it’s, you know, it’s easy, it’s a good, easy place to get started, you don’t have to have your own product, you don’t have need any capital. And you can get, you know, get started straightaway. So I did that I had a brother already involved in network marketing. So I joined his business, and I really liked the product, he was a health product. And I did okay with it. But the problem with network marketing is when if you approach your family and friends no one. No, I didn’t enjoy it. I’m sure my family and friends didn’t enjoy it. I didn’t look I had some success. But eventually, I got to the point where there was no one else to talk to. So this is in 2006, might I think 2006. And I saw hopped online, I thought, hey, let’s go online. And I can find there’s heaps of people, online, millions of people, I’ll promote my business that way. And as I did that, and I did have success, success, recruiting people online, but that’s where I discovered affiliate marketing, because they kept popping up this around 2006 2007 was all the craze like, you get these crazy, ridiculous websites saying, you know, you’re gonna make hundreds and 1000s of dollars in 30 minutes you they’re buying the system, a lot of rubbish, it was a lot of rubbish. But eventually, I did actually find a system by bought a book by someone that is genuine in the industry. It showed me a simple strategy. And that’s how I started with Google AdWords and promoting other people’s products. And I remember making, I remember running this campaign, my first campaign and I was promoting a $2 off, I spent $1, in Google AdWords, and I made a $2 Commission. That was my very first campaign with this system. And I was so excited, not not because I made $1. But what I realised was, hey, if I could do this and get immediate results, if I continue doing this, if I just create more of these campaigns, I can get to the point where I’m making full time income, and I don’t have to do my job, and I can actually be at home more. And so that’s what I did, I put my head down, and I discovered the system around May 2007. I set a goal for myself for October 2007. Because that’s my birthday is in October. So I said, well, by my birthday, I’m going to be making enough money to make a full time income online. And so I went to work. And it took me until January 2008, it took a bit longer. But Jerry 2008. That’s when I rang up all my clients and said, Hey, I’m not I won’t be fixing your computers anymore.
David Ralph [17:43]
And I said, they said You swine, You swine. John Lagoudakis You’ve you put viruses in all of them, I bet. So it’s a fantastic part of your story there. So me to jump in back so many questions as we’re going along. Now, so many people try this affiliate route. I’ve actually got an affiliate site myself that just runs on automatic pilot and is brilliant. Every month, I just get a load of old money. And it just comes to me which is which is wonderful. But so many people get excited. And this is to a guy, I’ve got a guy in the United Kingdom. He’s a lovely guy called Martin Gardner, Martin Gardner. And he’s building an affiliate business around camping, not being slightly gay, I mean, sort of actual tents and camping and going out there and, and doing that kind of stuff. And he contacted me the other day said, I made my first 20 Pence, I made my first 20 pence. And you could see that it was it was so exciting, because he realised that actually it works, that there is a system here. But as long as he follows and gets more traffic, it does work. So why do people john, here’s a question for you. Why do so many people start? They make $5. But then they go off and do something else instead of watering that $5 into $15 into $30? Because it just seems obvious to me if something is working, then make it work more. Why do people change?
John Lagoudakis [18:58]
Yeah, it’s a great question a lot of people do. And I think part of the reason for a day is the shiny object syndrome. Because in this industry, if you start looking into making money online and affiliate marketing, there’s literally new products released every single day, literally every single day about some new system, that’s going to make your money online. Now it’s all of a sudden a lot of it’s very similar. It’s just different people releasing different products. Some of them are really good. A lot of them is just it’s just it’s it, they’re released for the sake of releasing a product because launches, make a lot of money. There’s a lot of buzz to get promoted by a lot of other email marketers and just a lot of people a lot of Internet Marketing. So so called internet marketing gurus make a lot of money from product launches. It said it’s just that’s just why the industry is so what happens is again, so if when you got someone that’s making money online, they make a bit of money. Again, they usually are Learning from someone or they’re on these email lists to learn how to better their online business. And they’re getting bombarded with these product launches and these new products and, and so they get distracted really easily. And they all sound great like they all they do they all sound really, really good. That’s why I unsubscribe from all these lists myself, I don’t I don’t get these email, I’m not interested in new products that are coming out in the market. I don’t want to know, because what I know what there’s basically there’s very few ways to make money online. And like you said, that you just find what you need to do is find one system. And you you find someone that’s so a system that clicks for you that makes sense to you find someone that’s making a lot of money really successful in that with that system, join their mentoring programme, follow it to the tee until you’re making a lot of money don’t do not deviate. So, I mean, it’s worked for me. So I’m not sure. Besides the shiny object syndrome. Yeah, I don’t know why people if someone has started making money, and maybe it’s because of the myth that, you know, a lot of again, a lot of these people that a successful online, they like to portray it that their overnight successes like they just, yeah, they just thought, you know, they did it in a few weeks, a few months. So maybe when people see how much effort it actually takes to make that money, maybe and they start earning money, the thing of my you,
David Ralph [21:29]
jumping in you you did it quick, really? If you look back on it to replace your full time income with working online.
John Lagoudakis [21:37]
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it took me about seven, eight months or something like that, about seven months. That’s that is pretty quick. And I worked hard for it. Trust me, oh, by worked really, really hard
David Ralph [21:49]
to work as hard as me, john, you didn’t work as hard as me. And I’m a bag of all on Join Up Dots for the first year and a half. Nothing at all. What I did do was I learned how to do it. I built an audience up. And once you build an audience that’s loyal, then it becomes exponential. And that’s where the profits come. But I tell you what, john, tell you what I would have outhustled you sir. That’s why you still look so young. And you haven’t got grey hair in your head?
John Lagoudakis [22:15]
Yeah, I don’t doubt it. I doubt it. Yeah.
David Ralph [22:18]
So So when when you’re doing all this lead generation, what what kind of tip Actually, I’m gonna play some words now. And Ben, I’m gonna come? There’s a good question. But these are good clips as well. He’s Jim Carrey.
My father could have been a great comedian. But he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.
And a quick question before I actually get on with what I was going to ask is, did you actually really love what you’re doing now? Is it something that when the wife goes out for the afternoon, you think, Oh, just gonna go into my office and have a play around and see what I can do is is the love there.
John Lagoudakis [23:12]
Although I really do enjoy, do I love what I do. I do definitely look forward to working. But definitely not everything I do is all roses, like there are parts of my what I do, that can be a bit, you know, I just want to procrastinate, but most of what I do I really enjoy the arty I get it a bit of a background, why I started a digital marketing agency. So there could have been a lot of things I could have done with the skills that I have with my online marketing skills. I’ve I’ve been doing it again full time since 2008. I began my digital marketing agency about a year ago. And that was after like, I went into partnership with someone else about four years ago. And we started a new business and I took care of the online stuff, the website, the lead generation, when that ended about a year ago, I thought to myself, what do I want to do next? And the reason why I decided with a digital to get to go down the route of a digital marketing agency is because so many friends and people I knew were getting scammed by SEO company. So SEO companies, you know, they they’re paying 500 1000 1000s of dollars per month, for no results. I’m serious, no results. And I thought most of you know, it’s ridiculous. And there’s lots, I mean, there’s good, there’s good SEO and digital marketing companies out there. But there’s a lot out there that are just jumping, that they’re realising a lot of businesses have no clue about online marketing. They know they’re desperate to to get online get a presence online. So you know, they give you that and so there’s really a lot of Rogue companies out there not offering hardly any value charging a lot of money. So and it really, really upset me in So for you know what, that’s the space I’m gonna go into. And so I enjoy what I do, because I every client by take on, I get them results guaranteed, if I do not think I can get them results, I don’t take the client on. And, and when I talk about results, everything I do about generating leads for my client, so that and making sure they’re making sales from those leads, I don’t tell them, hey, I want to get you on the first page of Google, or I’m going to get you lots of social media attention. Cuz at the end of the day, that’s not what they want. They want leads, and they want to make sales. And so that’s what I focus on, and that I enjoy. Because every client I take on, there was always something a bit different. And so that what I enjoy is the challenge of finding system online lead generation systems that work for the client. And like you mentioned, like the guarantee that I have with clients is that there, I will give them a five to one return on investment that’s after my fees. Well, not just how much they’re spending on advertising, but including mine fee. So if I don’t deliver that, I don’t expect to get any money from the client. So obviously, I want to work hard, I’m going to do what I can to make sure it actually works.
David Ralph [26:12]
As astonishing. That is you you are like you’re like john wayne, you’re like the white hatted online marketer, it is, it must feel good to know that you’re good, as you said, right at the very beginning, when you got slammed by Google AdWords and YouTube, I’m a good guy, you can sense that coming through and that wins doesn’t mean that wins all the time.
John Lagoudakis [26:32]
Yeah, it does. If you always are looking to provide value in the marketplace, no matter what you’re doing, it doesn’t matter what your occupation is, if you’re working for someone, if you have your own business, if you’re always trying to provide value, you will always be valuable in the marketplace. And you’ll always be rewarded for that.
David Ralph [26:51]
So when you look at what people that wasn’t said very well, when when you look at how people I’m an Englishman, I should be able to speak better than that. Do lead generation. Well, what’s the big mistakes they get? Because I know I get so many people coming to me. And they say, Oh, I don’t know where to start, don’t know whether I should be doing LinkedIn ads, I should be doing Google ads. I don’t understand what sales funnels, I don’t know what my email opt in is, what would be the first thing that somebody could do. That might be the simple route, but I haven’t thought about.
John Lagoudakis [27:23]
Yeah, what I normally find is the width, well, I make sure that they have their own website, you want to have your own website. Aaron is great to have Facebook pages, and other social media accounts. And to be listed in business directories and so forth, but you definitely want to have your own website. And on your website, it has to be tailored, or it has to be designed. So that you you, you’re getting people that visit that website to take a specific action. That’s what I find the biggest mistake people make. So they’ll they’ll pay for people to create websites for them or create their own websites. And it’s really fancy, like, it looks really nice. It might have some it might have videos of flesh animation, maybe or just, you know, some parallax of sliding effects and nice images and so forth. But there’s no specific call to action, whether it’s getting them to call you or to sign up for a free report, or to fill in the contact form to sign up for a free demo, whatever it is. That’s what I find is the biggest problem. So I even have people that come to me that they’re spending money on AdWords, for example, I had someone come to me recently, and they said, hey, there’s more competition in my market. I’m spending more and more money on AdWords, can you help me create? Fix my AdWords campaigns? I’m paying less per click. And I explained to them, Look, I can look at that. And I can help you with that. But I explained to him that what you need to be looking at is not your cost per click, but how much are you paying per conversion? Yeah, so because in AdWords, you can you can set up goals. For example, opt ins, or sales, and ads with AdWords will tell you for each keyword. How much are you spending for that keyword? And did it turn into a lead? Did it turn into a sale? And that’s all I care about? It doesn’t bother me, I can really care how much I pay per click. I want to know how much is each conversion costing me? And am I happy with that conversion rate? If I am keep spending money all day long. If I’m not let’s tweak the landing page so that it converts better. And so that’s the biggest issue I find is usually the landing page or the website. It’s, again, we’re not we haven’t they haven’t set it up so that they’re getting their visitors to do what it is they need them to do.
David Ralph [29:51]
So are we talking about the three second rule basically somebody lands on the website and within three seconds, they should know exactly what’s offer and then opting in on that offer. is it all about the offer?
John Lagoudakis [30:05]
Oh, yeah, definitely, definitely. So, again, for some it can be that you want them to call you. So you, if you, if most of the people that come to your site want to call you, let’s say you’re a trade person or local trade person, make sure your number is prominent. And also that it’s a clickable link. So if they come on their mobile phone, they can just touch tap that number, and it immediately opens their phone, or you know, it goes to dial. So it’s a, like a HTML telephone link. If you’re someone like, like your site day, for example, it’ll be opt ins, okay? So you want people to get on your list. So you want to make sure your offer is right there, whether it’s a it could be a pop up, it could be on the side of the website, maybe along the top. But make your free offer very visible. And very clear. What is your like? Like I said, within three seconds, they should, they should be able to, to see your offer or be able to take the action they want to take IE call you on on the phone?
David Ralph [31:08]
And so going even simpler. Do they need a website? Could they do a Facebook page? Most people know how to create that, could they do that drive traffic into there? Do they actually need a website,
John Lagoudakis [31:18]
David Ralph [32:27]
free offer. Now, what do you what you’re doing, john is is brilliant, because you have got expertise in a certain area. And if you go into Facebook ads, I’ve done the courses I’ve done Google AdWords, I played around with it. I’ve set goals and campaigns and stuff. And I look back on it. And a lot of it was just me kind of bouncing around and clicking around. But there is a fear factor but people will find of hiring somebody with that expertise, especially right at the very beginning. Because they kind of bootstrapping it. And I know that this is the big stumbling block for most of my listeners out there. They’ve got what they already got. They want more, but they’re not willing to risk it. How much risk is it? They have a product, I have a service coming to somebody like you because in my head now the risk is doing it yourself and not hiring somebody like yourself?
John Lagoudakis [33:17]
Yeah, look, it leaves a lot of truth in what you say. The great thing about a let’s say Google AdWords or Facebook ads, you can spend so little money testing things. Facebook, for example, Facebook ads, your minimum spend is $5. Or I’m not showing the UK guys is still in pounds. So what is it? What’s the minimum, I’m
David Ralph [33:41]
not sure what the minimum spend because five, five pounds, I think it is
John Lagoudakis [33:46]
five pounds, okay? So your risk is very minimal. What you want to be doing a big mistake that people make day when they’re starting out is they’ll spend a lot of time on their website, creating a beautiful website, you know, being a perfectionist like I’m guilty, I’m totally guilty of that. They’ll spend a lot of time on their funnel their product. And then it’s only after months of doing that spending that time and spending some money, maybe getting all that in place, I’ll finally send some traffic. What you want to be doing is spending very little time on the website and the offer and the funnel. Just get something up as quick as possible. As quick as possible. Send a little bit of traffic and see how you go get some feedback, ask family and friends to to go through your funnel and use the feedback. One of the great books that I read not long ago was the Lean Startup by Eric Ries. And he talks about this how, how much time we waste trying to perfect things and get em think we know what the market wants without actually even asking the market first. So get your website up. So really quickly set up your offer your funnel so forth, as quickly as you can, simple as you can drive a bit of traffic to it targeted traffic. Here’s another mistake. When you’re when you’re setting up, let’s say you’re doing a Facebook ad campaign to drive them to your website, to your offer, make sure it’s extremely highly targeted. So that the demographic is depending on how much you know about your avatar, but target, you know, your gender and your age, and maybe location, and definitely the interests. So you’re getting very highly targeted traffic, send a little bit and see how you go and get as much feedback early on as possible and then tweak it. So that what that’s the best way to have success. And now, I know I’ve made again, I’ve made the mistake of what I’ve just mentioned there, I’ve made that mistake in the past. I don’t recommend anyone does that.
David Ralph [35:52]
It there was a guy on my show called Adam Hudson, he’s a nosy as well. And he’s got this Amazon selling programme that he does. But his first business was on Amazon reviews. And he this was a few years back. And he thought to himself, you know, I’ve got this product, I need a load of reviews, how do I get the reviews of any fault? Well, if I’m thinking this, other people must be thinking this as well. So for just $100 he put an ad on Facebook and said, you know, would you like loads of Amazon reviews for your product? Comment below. And he set it off for about an hour. And he got so much feedback instantly that yeah, this is brilliant. I’d love this, I’d love to see for ya, I’m gonna build a business. And he did. And he turned it into a multi million business until Amazon decided to change their rules. And he had to pivot and go a different way. But using Facebook for that sort of commenting that that narrative that people will give you is a brilliant way. But we don’t we just put pictures of our cats and our kids playing football and stuff on there. We should use it as market research. Should we?
John Lagoudakis [36:56]
Yeah, that’s a great point you mentioned. So you know, I was talking about driving traffic straight to the offer. But even before you do that, to do what you just said, then doesn’t cost a lot of money to get some research, ask people maybe to fill in a very short survey in exchange for a deeply discounted access to the product or free access to the product, especially if it’s digital. It’s a great way to get feedback very quickly, very easily, or just hop onto a forum. And in a forum where your market is and ask him for feedback on your product.
David Ralph [37:29]
And then let’s just jump back to your offer. Because your offer was in the intro. You mentioned it as well. But it wasn’t until you mentioned it again. I thought Blimey, so you actually offer a guarantee of at least a five to one return on investment after your fees. That is a that is a bold return on investment, isn’t it?
John Lagoudakis [37:52]
Yeah, look, it is. And for me, that’s a minimum. So I have clients that I’m able to get a higher return on investment than that. That is the minimum return on investment that I aim for, for my clients. And so as I mentioned before, if I do not feel I can deliver that for clients, I’ll usually tell them, I’ll tell them upfront. If I if I can do it, if I feel confident that I can do it. Of course, I’ll work with a client. And I’ll continue to work with them until that is achieved before I even get paid. So and there’s been times where I’ve had to work with clients for a few months before we’ve got there. But you can imagine it’s it’s an easy sell for businesses. And it’s again, I’m it helps me to actually be much better at what I do. Because if I’m not going to get paid until I get results, you can guarantee that I’m going to find ways to get results. So it pushes me and it definitely is has helped me to become a better marketer.
David Ralph [38:55]
So do you think that by finding something that you’re willing to do for nothing until the money comes to you? Do you think that’s the true way of success? Certainly, I believe it’s the case in podcasting, you have to do 500 plus episodes, you know, hours and hours and hours of it before you really expect the money to start coming to you. Do you think people aim for the money and not actually the upscaling? The upscaling is the key to the money?
John Lagoudakis [39:22]
Yeah, I totally agree. Dave, I think it’s interesting. If you want money immediately for you for your efforts. There’s nothing wrong with that. But that’s a job. If you if you want to create a business or you want to create wealth, you do have to put a lot in before you you know a lot in we’re talking a lot. Yeah, before you start seeing the results. And then the results come in small and but they escalate in a curve fashion. And so these overnight, it’s like these overnight success stories. What a lot of people don’t realise is that’s just the steep part of the curve. They’re seeing by There was a lot heaps before that, and was gradually building those flat, it was totally flat for ages, then slowly lifting up. And then obviously, it and a great way it was put to me years ago was it’s like creating a skyscraper building, how much time is spent, you have to, okay, you start off with ground, you’re at ground level, you have to get below ground level, you have to dig a foundation. So you have to go below where you were, and spend, like months, sometimes years building a foundation. But once that foundation is created, and it’s sturdy, and it’s ready to go, then the frame comes up, and it goes up quickly. And the building goes up really fast. And so a lot of the success I enjoyed today is because I took the time and I was patient in building a foundation. And now I can build on that and continue to have success on that.
David Ralph [40:59]
I think that is potentially the wisest words that I’ve heard on Join Up Dots. Right, you actually have to go down deeper, and the starting point actually build. I’ve never heard anyone say that. But that is so true, isn’t it? You know, there is so much of the work that is done. I remember when I launched Join Up Dots. And I’d probably done about, I don’t know, 100 episodes or something. And I literally didn’t know what I was doing. Except for when I turned on the microphone. It sounded like I knew what I was doing. And so many people were saying to me, oh, yeah, you’re successful. Yes. And I was thinking you’re successful. So I’m just making up as I go along, I just feel totally out my depth. Now we’re coming up to 1000 shows, and I’m totally in my element. But I think those that I think I was just digging deeper and deeper and deeper, to try to find that footing, where there wasn’t any water where I could start building and then actually going up and up and up. I think that is spot on advice, john, and I salute you for being being Yoda of the week.
John Lagoudakis [41:55]
Oh, thank you for that day appreciate it means a lot coming from you.
David Ralph [41:59]
Let’s play some words. Now that means a lot as well. And these are from the legend. But with Steve Jobs, it’s still g Steve Jobs. So let’s hear from him again.
Steve Jobs [42:07]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards. 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [42:42]
I love those words. I love those words. I hear them every single day. And sometimes I have Listen, sometimes I really listen. There. I totally listened into them. I think they’re true. What do you think, john?
John Lagoudakis [42:56]
Yeah, I was listening to one of the episodes. And I heard those words from Stephen. And well, it’s definitely true. For me. I used to be someone that was very, like things had to go according to plan, they had to, like I’m very particular about my time I plan my days out in advance. Like at the beginning of the day, I’ll plan what I’m going to do. And if things didn’t go the way I’d planned. It used to stress me out a bit. Stress it that way. But as I’ve gotten older, I’ve gotten a lot wiser and I’ve and I’ve I’ve noticed that whenever things have not gone my way. It’s always been a good thing. It’s always turned out to be a good thing or a reason why they didn’t say I don’t I don’t stress out about those things anymore. I totally believe that. You know, looking back, I can see why things happened. Why good things happen, why bad things happen. So it is great advice from sabeena.
David Ralph [43:59]
Jen and what would be your big dots, your moment in your life. When you look back and you go car? I’ll tell you what, that that was really when it started going in the direction that I really wanted.
John Lagoudakis [44:12]
Oh, yeah, that’s a that’s a good question. For me, I think it was when I was I was lost. As I mentioned, like when I was going to university. I was about 20 years of age, doing my architecture degree not enjoying it. Didn’t want to be there. There’s a bit of pressure because I’m the first one in my family to go University. My dad is a he’s a painter. My mother. She had a hairdressing business originally and then she went on to work for the state government in admin role. My brother I have an older brother and sister they never finished high school. So I was the first one to finish high school. So the oldest of all my cousins to first one to uni says a bit of pressure expectations as well. But I wasn’t enjoying it. And I add to it spiritually at the time too, I was going through a lot for myself I, I was a, I did a lot of things that a lot of 17 to 20 year olds do. And at age 20, I just wasn’t happy with myself, what didn’t like what are the courses doing, and I was just looking for answers and direction. And for me that the dot that really put things in, in perspective, and really changed my life was I had a, I met some missionaries. And that that changed everything for me. And I ended up going, joining a different church to the one that I grew up in, which is a big thing, because I grew up with orthodox, although if you know Catholics, orthodox, you don’t change. You don’t change religion. It’s just something you don’t do. So I did, I did, though I joined different church serving, I saved up when so the T proselyting. Mission full time. And, and that’s again, that’s just changed everything for me changed my perspective on life and changed my direction. It’s sort of built the foundation of my character, which then translates into other things into my family life into my business, the way I conduct myself. And the things I believe as well. Yeah.
David Ralph [46:28]
Where are you heading? Now? when john before? Well, you’re going to be heading to the Sermon on the mic, when we’re going to send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. But before then, those dots but we have joined up, where are they leading? When you look into the next two years? Three years? Five years? Have you got a plan going forward?
John Lagoudakis [46:47]
Yeah, look, I don’t have a lot of huge, but I definitely want to continue building up the business that I’m building up and see where it takes me like I meet people all the time. And there’s so many opportunities that I get presented before me, but I want to continue with a digital marketing agency and build it up. I want to also continue, I also have a podcast and I it’s interesting, I’ve been doing my podcast now for four years, it started off as the group coaching call I do with clients, I would, I would say that as my podcast episode, then a year and a half ago, I stopped doing the group coaching calls, and I listen to the podcast, doing interviews, with with guests, and now I’m starting to focus on online marketing. So even though I’ve been doing this podcast for four years, I’m like what you described before where you’re doing it for ages, and not it’s not really going doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. But I’m definitely want to continue with that and, and look to improve that and take that to the next level. Because I think a really, I really do enjoy doing my podcast and I want to make that very profitable, not just for me, but the value we can provide what I focus on online marketing, so definitely continue with that. Other things like I’ve got teenagers, young and younger, kids aged between five and 16. So a lot of my effort really is bringing up these kids and, and giving them as much time as I can as a father and helping them and creating some great kids that will go into society and and then be ready for the world and to Yeah, just to you know, always think about and worry about them and then going you know once they once they move on we’re empty nesters and I think for my wife and I you know i’m not sure i we we talk about being off the grid and being independent buying some land next door river and just living just living independently is something that way, we’re passionate about doing trying out and of course I love to travel. I just I just love travelling so I’m gonna do lots of that as well.
David Ralph [48:59]
I think you’ve got your your balance right sir. I think everything is gonna go well for you. I think you have dug down and you’re working up in an absolute perfect way. And if you want to have a different spin on a podcast, go over to online marketing with john, you can find it on iTunes Match banish obon Join Up Dots. And he can teach you and I’m surprised you’ve got quite a few 130 838 guests on there. So there’s a lot of content for you to to consume if you want to a different flavour from myself. Well, this is the part of the show called this sermon on the mic when we’re going to send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time john and speak to the younger you what age would you choose and what advice would you give? Well, we’re going to find out because we’re going to play the theme and when it fades, you’re up. This is the Sermon on the mic
Unknown Speaker [49:54]
with the best bit
Unknown Speaker [49:55]
of the show
John Lagoudakis [50:09]
Thanks. Thanks, Dave. What’s up, john? So john, the john I’m talking to, is 12 years old. And he’s, he’s a good young man. I think the reason why I chose to speak to you, john at age 12, because this is the age where you’re going to make a lot of decisions, especially as you go into teenage years, and you’re going into high school. And so let me tell you some things that I, that I’ve learned, that I think are particularly important that I wish I had learned a lot, a lot earlier in life. I remember when, when I was your age, john, when I was 12, that you wanted to get older, quicker, just couldn’t wait to, to be able to like 18 and go and do your own thing. My advice to you don’t just take the time to just enjoy each day, time with that you have with your family and friends. Don’t worry. Also things don’t go your own way. I know you worry about things like that about plants. Many times, things won’t go away. And it’s always for a good reason. So don’t stress out about it. Go with the flow. follow your instincts. Don’t worry what others will say, when you what others will say when you choose to leave university or join different religion. Do what you feel is right. And when it comes to providing for yourself and your for your family, don’t be in a rush to make money. There’s no such thing as fast, easy money. Just be the best at what you do. And look for ways to always provide value and you’ll be rewarded handsomely. Now, great
David Ralph [52:03]
advice. Great advice from the Yoda down under we couldn’t ask for more. So john, what’s the number one best way that our audience can connect with you, sir?
John Lagoudakis [52:12]
Yeah, thanks. So the best way is john Lega, darkest calm, I know, I’m not making that easy for you because of my surname. So I’ll spell it out. j o h en la GOU de AK is that that’s, that’s the best way. So you can make even got my phone number there. If you want to call me email me that that is the best place, we will
David Ralph [52:33]
have all the links on the show notes. And as I say, go over to iTunes and look for online marketing. And you can find a great show to listen to as well. JOHN, thank you so much for spending time with us today, joining up those dots. And please come back again, when you got more dots to join up. Because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. JOHN, thank you so much.
John Lagoudakis [52:55]
Thank you, I really appreciate it.
David Ralph [52:59]
So lead generation Yeah, it’s one of the killers, people get products, they get websites, but they can’t drive people to it. And it is all to do with the offer. You’ve got to have a website that is offer friendly, somebody comes across, they see what they want to do boom and go straight for it. Now, a lot of the websites out there, you will see them, you’ll go on to websites and you think oh, I log into that, do a screenshot copy them, put them to the bookmark so that you’ve got that information of why you wanted to do those things. And it’s just a case of deconstructing the funnel the offer. You don’t have to be clever, you don’t have to try to create it yourself. There’s people out there doing great stuff. And just read the deconstruct it. Now john is doing amazing stuff down there. And as I said to him straight afterwards, I think I’m gonna hire him to market my products. Because it’s a big piece is a big piece that can kill a business or allow it to thrive. Always look for people that can do the things that you can’t do. And john can do them better than most. Until next time, my listeners thank you so much for this episode of Join Up Dots and being with us sharing your ears and we will see you very very shortly with another episode of Join Up Dots say
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you or wants to become. So he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to Join Up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on Join Up Dots.