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Chris Badgett Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Business Podcast
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Introducing Chris Badgett
Chris Badgett is our guest today, on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots free podcast interview.
This is a man whose business partner first appeared on the show way back on episode 94
Now its his turn to join up his dots, and certainly when he starts his email request to appear with “I’m a technology entrepreneur who built an online course building software called LifterLMS. I used to live on a glacier in Alaska with a couple hundred sled dogs and managed a sled dog tour business there. You could only get there by helicopter” then you know that it is going to be an interesting conversation.
But its not just his icy beginnings that interest me, but more importantly what he is doing now and the struggle he has gone through getting here.
He is the founder of LifterLMS, an online resource to help people across the globe create their own online courses without all the techy struggle that boggs them all down.
How The Dots Joined Up For Chris
“It’s time to stop stringing together separate software tools into a “Software Frankenstein” to get all the functionality you need. LifterLMS is the all-in-one solution many online course creators, teachers and entrepreneurs like you have been looking for.”
And I dont normally say this kind of thing in the introduction but this platform looks amazing and is so needed by so many of the people that I speak to that have all the knowledge but then lose their way within the set up.
Things are good for our guest, now as they should be…as he says “I’ve gone through hard times with little money, security, and lots of stress while having a wife and 2 wonderful homeschooled children that depended on me. Now things are great financially and in terms of stability, but there was a lot of struggle. I’m happy to share openly about the journey.”
So where do we start?
With the dogs and the woolly hats?
Or the moment that LifterLMS first popped into his head and the change in his life since that time?
Well let’s do all of them as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr Chris Badgett
Show Highlights
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with such as:
Why you have to find a way of building the strengths where you have gaps, and the best way of doing this is finding a business partner that has those in abundance.
How Chris used to think that business and creating businesses was “evil” and how he overcame this by linking a business into the personal.
Chris shares how he manages a team across the globe, ensuring that everybody has the ability to flourish and get the work done.
and lastly….
Why it is such a good idea to get out to the market and validate your idea before ever spending a huge amount of money and time
How To Connect With Chris Badgett
Return To The Top of Chris Badgett
If you enjoyed this with Chris Badgett, why not listen to some of our favourite podcast episodes such as Making Money Online, Nick Ruiz, Sarah Caltieri or the amazing Sam Bearfoot
Or if you prefer just pop over to our podcast archive for thousands of amazing episodes to choose from.
Full Transcription Of Chris Badgett Interview
Intro [0:00]
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK, David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:25]
Yes, hello there. Good. Morning, well, I’m feeling all infused today, because it’s going to be one of those conversations that will if it doesn’t infuse you guys, I think God, I can make a go of this, I can make a go of this and create my own life. When there’s something wrong, you’re probably on our life support system. And you shouldn’t be listening to podcasts anyway. But today, guy, he’s going to be an inspirational guy, because when he he connected with us on Join Up Dots, email, that’s how we like to call it. He’s email a request says I’m a technology entrepreneur who built an online course building software called lifter LMS. I used to live on a glassier in Alaska with a couple of 100 sled dogs and managed a sled dog taught business there, you could only get there by helicopter. Well, when you get back come through to you when you know that it’s going to be an interesting conversation. But it’s not just these icy beginnings that interest me. But more importantly, what he’s doing now and the struggle he has gone through getting there. He’s the founder of as I say lifter LMS an online resource to help people across the globe, create their own online courses without all the techie struggle that bogs them all down. It’s time to stop stringing together separate software tools into a software Frankenstein to get all the functionality you need lifter. LMS is the all in one solution. Many online course creators, teachers and entrepreneurs like you, yes, like you have been looking for it says on the website. And I don’t normally say this kind of thing in the introduction. But this platform looks amazing. And it’s so needed by so many other people, but I speak to but have all the knowledge but then lose their way within the setup. Now, things are good for our guests now as they should be. And as he says, I’ve gone through hard times with little money, security and lots of stress while having a wife and two wonderful, homeschooled children. That depended on me. Now things are great financially in terms of stability. But there was a lot of struggle and I’m happy to share openly about the journey. So where do we start with the dogs and the woolly hats or the moment that lifter LMS first popped into his head and the change in his life since that time? Well, let’s do all of them and bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr. Chris Badgett. Good morning, Chris. How are you, sir?
Chris Badgett [2:34]
I’m doing great. Thanks. Good to be with you, David.
David Ralph [2:37]
I felt inspired. I felt all inspired. I wanted to get it out as quickly as possible. So we could get into the conversation because you are a man. You’re coming to you brilliantly weird. And I’m going to be that’s the biggest kind of compliment. I can tell you, you are brilliantly weird. I look at it. And I think, where do we start? Where do you want us to start? Chris?
Chris Badgett [2:59]
I take that is a compliment. I think that glacier is probably a good place to start.
David Ralph [3:03]
Let’s go there. Let’s so let’s go there. Now I’m, I’m the controlling freak. I’m the host of Join Up Dots. I’m going to go even further back. So you had a business partner but first appeared on the show way back on episode 94 of Join Up Dots called Thomas Patrick levy. Now I want to talk about him first because he was a very interesting guy. And he was somebody but I remember talking to him. And I was thinking he’s got it all. But he kind of lacked direction he lacked an anchor he lacked, and something to sort of rein in his creativity. He was kind of like blasting out in all directions. Would that be true? You spend time with him on a daily basis? Do you think most people in the creative online environment struggle with that direction point? Or do you need somebody else like yourself to sort of rein it all in?
Chris Badgett [3:55]
So somewhat, I think the really interesting thing about Thomas is he is an artist, which comes through in his poetry, and his ability to code and engineer. And I think that’s what makes him a great engineer is I don’t know a lot of engineers that also geek out on poetry and really get into that. But Thomas just embraces that creative flow 100% and it oozes out in all kinds of different directions. But he really does, like you’re saying need somebody like me, we make a great partnership where we’re completely, I’m creative, but in a different way. And together, we get the train on the tracks, but we need each other and we depend on each other and we count on each other.
David Ralph [4:38]
But the reason I started with that question is I’m seeing it time and time again with the people that I speak to. And certainly the Uber famous, the Uber successful, that there is somebody with you, but they might be the front face. They might be the person that sort of is the profile but as somebody that actually complements their strengths. Now we’ve lift that out MSX could you have done it without him? Could he have done it without you did you really need to come together
Chris Badgett [5:07]
absolutely would not have happened without each other. There’s just different skill sets that come into play to pull something like that off. And we also have a greater team around us. It was essential to but his strength in engineering and creative problem solving and mind with people and understanding the market and the creative energy behind creating courses and teaching and doing it online. We just mash that together. But we absolutely could not have done it without each other in our team.
David Ralph [5:40]
Now, let’s just start with that, then again, because it is a big point that I’m trying to make. But people that have got a vision, people that have got a dream of what they want to do. It’s almost impossible, I think, and I’ve learned from experience I’ve created Join Up Dots and everything from from scratch with myself. And I look back on it and think If only I could have found that person that would really have sort of sped me on. How do you make a decision on who to choose as a business partner? How do you know that it’s not going to be somebody that’s great in a bar sounds like your best mate but actually turns into a complete freak mental case when you’re working with them. How do you choose?
Chris Badgett [6:21]
I think it’s it’s less of a choice as it is something that happens through shared experience. And what I mean by that is Thomas and I worked together for a long time before we became business partners. I actually hired him. as a freelancer inside of my agency. I was doing freelance web development shortly after leaving Alaska, basically building websites for people. And I realised that I needed some more serious developer muscle, not someone just like me, who could put the tools together around business problems. I needed someone who could go deeper. And then later we merged our companies together. But it was, you know, after at least a year of knowing each other. He worked for me. And I actually freelanced for his company for a little while doing project management. So we had a relationship there. So I really knew what I was getting into when it came to that business partnership moment. But it was it was a process.
David Ralph [7:18]
Because I started watching a film the other day. Well, what stood out to me I thought was brilliant, the founder the history of McDonald’s with Michael Keaton, and how these two guys who created McDonald’s, brought in somebody that they quite frankly needed. But then he he kind of took control and actually took the company away from them. That’s that’s kind of a scary story. But I watched fear. And so I’m fascinated with that career choice or point in the right person, because for every Thomas but every Chris, there’s got to be an equal Ying Ying Yang of people that don’t work together, and the company just kind of falls apart because of it.
Chris Badgett [7:54]
Yeah, it does happen. And we actually used to be a three way business partner. situation, we had another business partner. In the very beginning, it ended up not working out, he kind of ended up wanting to do other things, but it ended very amicably, and there was no, you know, hostile takeover or stress around that. But it is true that sometimes it does not work out. And I do see around me a lot of businesses fail. And partnerships that turn sour. But at the end of the day, with Thomas and myself, there’s just a mutual trust and respect that, you know, is the backbone of our relationship. And it truly does feel like one plus one does not equal two, it equals three are much more than that. And we’re just we need each other. We want each other’s help and we count on each other.
David Ralph [8:46]
Did you ever see him first thing in the morning and say, Thomas, you complete me? Did you ever because I feel there’s a love thing going on here.
Chris Badgett [8:53]
I mean, about once a year, we were just in Mexico at a business conference that we go to every year, a small mastermind a really amazing experience called Cabo press. And we usually had that kind of, you know, Hey, bro hug. Thanks so much. It’s so great. I’m so glad we met each other. We usually have that once a year.
David Ralph [9:12]
It doesn’t go to tongues doesn’t go to tongues.
Chris Badgett [9:16]
It does not. We’re both happily married.
David Ralph [9:18]
I’ll tell you after a few beers, we’ve we’ve all been there. We’ve all been there. The marriage goes out the window and you get experimental. You never know what’s gonna occur when you’re down in Mexico. So it’ll take you to another situation where maybe body heat was required, which is the most perfect segue I’ve ever done. Alaska. Now was was that part of the plan? Did you plan or were you escaping from a situation because to me that sounds kind of adventurous, but it sounds awful as well that you’re running these these Huskies across the Alaskan glassier How did you end up there?
Chris Badgett [9:51]
That’s a great question. I know you said earlier in your intro about how this is all about going after your dreams. And maybe I’m alone. A little different in that way. But I’ve always had an irreverent commitment and, and an ear to what my dreams are. So I actually grew up in a college town in North Carolina very far from the glaciers of Alaska. But I used to remember when I was like in college, for example, up in the mountains of North Carolina, I was on my college house porch, just looking out over the mountains. And I used to envision, like bigger mountains like the Alaskan mountains, off there in the distance. And I always wanted to go there, I ended up while I was in college, I spent some time in Nepal and the Himalaya, I studied abroad there, but I’ve always gone after my dreams. And for me, I’ve always been pulled towards the mountains towards nature, towards culture, towards endurance events, like for example, I took a semester off of college to hike the Appalachian Trail for some reason. The struggle has always appealed to me. And in some ways, I think it is an escape for me from what I would consider, you know, the, quote, real world, but in my opinion, when I kind of drop into that, I feel like I am actually standing in the real world. And I tell a story where sometimes, you know, this actually happened a lot people would land to go on a sled dog ride in a helicopter, they’d come off and meet, shake hands, and they’d be like, Wow, this is amazing. What are you going to do in the real world? And in my view, I would always answer back. This is the real world, you’re standing on it like this is, you know, the real world without all the stuff. But anyways, that’s, that’s kind of the perspective I take. But I’ve always just been super passionate about nature, animals travel endurance, and, and really that indomitable human spirit. And I’ve always embraced the cultural differences around the world. And, you know, enjoyed that. And, and that’s all kind of wrapped up into how I ended up in Alaska.
David Ralph [12:10]
So what if you’ve got that passion flooding through you? And I imagine if we met that’s the small you the five year old, you were probably out in the woods, looking at nature, you can’t escape from what you naturally are? How did you end up building this educational platform for online courses? Because that seems a big departure from the quest that you were just revealing to us?
Chris Badgett [12:34]
Yeah, in many ways. I felt like I won the lottery and that I went after my dream job. And I got it, you know, in terms of living on a glacier in Alaska, with sled dogs, and working with amazing people, I felt like I found my tribe, in many ways. But at the same time, I my background, academically and also, just from a personal interest standpoint, is in anthropology and culture. So for me, it was later in life, I used to think that business was kind of evil and not worth really pursuing in any way. But as I kind of in my off time, you know, as I was reading books, and you know, scanning things on the internet, it just slowly evolved that I got into the subject of marketing, but not as a lead me Make Money Online kind of perspective, more is just a fascination with human nature. When I was in college, I did a lot with anthropology, sociology, psychology, but I never really thought about that stuff applied to a business context. And it’s really weird, and it’s almost like I live it, I started living in two different worlds, you know, in the rugged outdoor world. But in my mind, and my personal studies, I got really into just starting to read it and understand about business as I was in Alaska, and I became a leader of an organisation and managing people, I started reading more business books, and I was always trying to improve myself. And you know, anybody knows when they become a manager of people, that it’s hard, it’s easy, there’s no playbook you’re often promoted because of your ability as a technician, but not necessarily as a you know, as a leader of people. So I started reading these books and it just slowly evolved where I got into business I got into you know, the the, I started reading about online business and then it just hit me like a lightning bolt when I realised, you know, the true power of the internet is not just the access to information, but the connection to people and as a world traveller. The idea that, okay, I could I have something unique that I could add, and I could connect to almost anyone in the world. I used to be up there on the glacier you know, completely unplugged from technology. I’ve always had trouble sleeping. thing. And I’d be up like at two o’clock, three o’clock in the morning under the moon having a cup of tea, you know, out on the glacier looking at everybody at the tents where everybody’s sleeping. And I’d be thinking about a, you know, a computer screen a browser on the internet thinking like, Man, what can I teach? What can I teach? What What would my face in that little video player box be talking about? That would be an alignment with my values, and integrity, and it just kind of slowly evolved. From there. That was the starting point. For me.
David Ralph [15:31]
I think what you said there was absolutely key, we’ve all got knowledge. Now, online courses at the moment, are everywhere, everywhere you go, somebody is an expert in something. But more often than not, they’re creating something that is what they think the marketplace wants. But I think what you’ve done is, is absolutely spot on, you’ve actually blended what you want to bring to the world with your own personal values. And that’s when something more powerful than just creating an online course or creating a business applies. Now, as you’re sitting, I don’t even know where you are. Are you at home? Are you in a in a kibbutz in Israel? Where are you?
Chris Badgett [16:11]
There’s a great question. I’m also I believe you’re in your garden office. I’m in a travel trailer, we just spent a year on the road. We used to live in Montana. Now I live on the coast of Maine in the United States. But I have my offices set up in our travel trailer in the yard. And I’m currently building you know, a cabin office. So I’m in my backyard, right now is where I’m at, in, in Maine by the ocean.
David Ralph [16:39]
I think if I could be anywhere on Earth, I always say this. There’s two places I would like to live. I’d like to live in California. But I don’t want the taxes. The taxes are ridiculous in California. So I’m not going to go there. But one of the places I do like I love Maine, and Cape Cod sort of area, because you’ve got such different seasons, haven’t you? It’s so windswept and, and sort of isolated in certain places. And I feel that I’m more connected to myself when there’s no one around me, which is bizarre because I turn on the microphone, and I invite the world towards me. But I find that Maine is the place that sort of recharges me So is that a kind of kindred spirit to Alaska does it give you the the outside, but you obviously need the ability to build a wind blasting your face pulled a woolly hat on and striped across the beach
Chris Badgett [17:31]
100% I’m a big outdoor guy. So I enjoy like walking and getting in nature. And I’m either all in online, or I’m completely out, you know, doing stuff in nature. And for me, I realised kind of funny, in a funny way later in life. Like when I was in college, I had the realisation that I was an extreme introvert. So I think that’s another reason why I’m attracted to remote locations. Because I just need that to recharge and, you know, just drop into my head and spend time just alone without input. So that’s a that’s why that’s another reason why I’m attracted, I think to these remote places, I do enjoy going to cities and conferences, and I can be very social, but I do it in short bursts in alignment with my personality. Now
David Ralph [18:21]
we believe that LMS your learning management system, which honestly, as I said the introduction, I was looking at this and I thought this is brilliant. Because I have created courses where I got so bogged down with this plugin and trying to link it to pay pal and all these different things. You should have shouted louder, sir, because I would have I would have bought this. I didn’t know it was out there. But when you look at that there is a team around you, are you you’re not all living in Maine together, you’re not building some community or cabin for the whole team to be. Are you spread out across the globe is a US based? How do you connect with the team to make sure that everybody’s doing what they need to do?
Chris Badgett [19:02]
We are spread out around the globe. Most of my friends probably think they work in construction and do things like that, that many of them don’t understand what I do. They think I talked to my computer all day. I can only imagine what the neighbours think. But yeah, we’re completely remote team. You know, for a while before the product business, we did agency work and we’re about 17 people and totally spread out different countries, predominantly in the US but also abroad in various areas. But one of the ways I take my you know leadership management experience from other parts of life and apply it to online. And also, you know, other people in the team lead in different ways. But one of the things that we do from a remote perspective is we don’t just try to like automate everything and everybody’s got a job to do and try not to ever talk to each other. We have a daily standup meeting we call we follow some, what’s known as some rules from agile development where it just involves like good communication and leadership. So we do meet quite a bit. And we’re always connected through a tool called slack. And, you know, we have we, I can get ahold of anybody on my team, or we can schedule a meeting, but we’re very much, almost find that with a remote team, communication becomes even more important. And even just recently, when Thomas and I were in Mexico, we actually brought a member of our team to help, you know, build that relationship, who we’d never met in person worked with for over three years. So we, you know, wanted to continue to deepen the connection. So I’m always focused on building that relationship with the team, allowing people to lead and do their jobs, but also be available when they need help. And, you know, just allowing people making sure that people are in the roles where their strengths are, that’s a big part of how we roll and we don’t really, we try to be a pretty flat and flat organisation, and let the style of the person and what their strengths and passions are lead what they do more than the job description.
David Ralph [21:18]
Well, let’s play some words. Now. Then we’re going to delve back into a course lifter LMS and how you created his and built your team. That’s why you’re here is an educational platform. And he’s Jim Carrey,
Jim Carrey [21:29]
my father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love. Now, I’m
David Ralph [21:55]
asking similar questions on this disk sound clip, but did you know you’re gonna love it? This is the fundamental question I really love to ask. We all say, Oh, you might as well go after what you love. But sometimes you go after what you think you’re gonna love. But it’s not what you actually love. Like, is this more you than Alaska? Where Where is the love in your life? Now?
Chris Badgett [22:21]
I that is a great question. And when I was in Alaska, I was on a path to become a professional sled dog racer, there’s big race called the I did a rod and other races. And I did do some races and learn from the best of the best, and had some great mentors in the sport. But I realised that ultimately, if I was I go all in when I go into something, and I realised that you know what I don’t, I don’t think I want to keep going down that path. There’ll be some great things about it. But there are other things I want to do in life in ways I want to be in the world that I didn’t really know where I was exactly going to end up. But it was that seed of entrepreneurship in me that was I didn’t really realise I was an entrepreneur till my, you know, early 30s. And as I continued to go down, that I realised how my identity was unfolding. And so I pivoted, and I had the, you know, my first daughter, and I wanted to be available and around and just wanted to have a tight bond with my kids and my, my young family. So I pivoted into this digital space, and for me, see, you know, working with people, one of the things that I see, it’s almost like a superpower if I were to put on you know, magic goggles, what I see when I look at people, especially people that have some kind of bend towards what we do at Lyft are helping people teach and deliver training, is I see all kinds of wisdom locked inside of people trapped, that could help so many other people and make the world better in some way and help solve problems galore. Glorious problems are simple problems, but there’s just so much wisdom trapped inside people. That that is part of my life’s mission is helping those education entrepreneurs, as I like to call them. Discover how to release that in a way that helps people helps them build a real business. And that is just one of my drivers and also to do it at a global scale. You know, when you look at the International reach of the internet, there’s so much wisdom outside of the developed world. There’s so much wisdom needed all over the world that you know really democratising education in the digital classroom. That’s my fancy way of saying that really drives me that really drives me in you know, in my anthropology studies and studies abroad, you know, empowering people around the world. World is a big part of what I love to do, I get a lot of satisfaction out of it. It’s why our core software product lifter LMS, which is a WordPress plugin that you can add to a WordPress site is completely free. Because I want education entrepreneurs anywhere to have as little barrier is possible to have an opportunity to teach and build an education company.
David Ralph [25:24]
Now, when you started building your business, more often than not, I think we all fall into the trap of we had this idea. And we think we’ve got to get this out really quickly. Because we’re gonna be ahead of the curve, we’re gonna miss out, we kind of miss out where ultimately it doesn’t matter if 1000s of people create the same kind of thing as you’re creating. There’s just too many people out there. Did you have that kind of pressure to to get it out there and get it to market? Or have you just naturally gone with the flow because you seem a kind of naturally chilled guy.
Chris Badgett [25:55]
Yeah, I am a naturally chilled guy. I some people say I’m kind of calm on the surface, but I’m like, well, there’s kind of like a, you know, a tsunami on the inside. But the, when we first launched, I’m a big fan of the book, the lean startup, anybody who’s ever I was actually listening to one of your episodes, one of your previous guests on recently mentioned that book, but that book talks about your minimum viable product and you know, validating your idea and getting out of the building and talking to customers as soon as possible. So when we first launched lifter LMS, it started with a just a single web page, a sales page with what the product was going to be kind of those Minimum Viable products, key features. And, you know, we built an email list from scratch and interest list. When we, we took about three to four months to build the first version of the product. When we launched it to a very small email list, we had 42 customers, and then we closed that was like in November 2014. And then we closed it down until January 1 the following year or whatever. And in that period, we you know, really engaged with our first batch of customers learn from them what else they needed. And, you know, that was over three years ago, and we continue to evolve ever since. But when we launched there were other players in the space. But in many ways, you know, we did some market research, but mostly, we took take a first principles approach of like, we’re just building tools for people, let’s talk to people find out what they need, in what they’re trying to do to teach or build a business, or get the knowledge out of their head and format it into a digestible course format, let’s just let’s just focus on those problems. And, and solve those problems with technology one step at a time. And that mission has served us very well. And, you know, then we’re that way, we’re always building something that people want. And we’re always open to having our assumptions challenged. So that’s kind of been our flow. And I’m a big fan of not being afraid of competition, and just also doing things your own way. And there’s all kinds of things that makes us different from our competitors, but we didn’t necessarily strike out to be different. We just did things in our own way. And in alignment with our values, and that essentially created our, you know, unique selling proposition
David Ralph [28:35]
is one of the things I do Chris, and I’ve mentioned this numerous times on the show, but at those moments, when you think as I said earlier, I gotta get out, you know, I got I got to work 20 hours a day, I got to be Oh, I’m missing, I’m missing I’m missing is I just go to Google Earth and scroll with my mouse up and down. And I look at streets and I go from my house and I zoom out and I zoom out and I think that there’s no rush, there’s no rush it just that tiny little corner over there or bought a product I was setting then I’m sorted anyway. And I never had that previously. And the more relaxed I am with the show, the more relaxed I am with my coaching platform, and the more relaxed I am by not allowing people to get hold of me. I’m a very closed off book. You can’t just sort of connect with me willy nilly. Everything is easier but more profitable as well. Is that how life is reviewed? you stroll around sometimes on a Monday morning in your underpants thinking? This isn’t a bad life. I’m having a cup of coffee. I’m playing with my kids and actually my business is growing without me.
Chris Badgett [29:42]
Yeah, absolutely. And I’m, I try hard. I mean there are times there’s very smart people who try to make technology tools like Facebook or slack or email very addicting and dependent. So I’ve worked hard to develop like really good habits and I’m very Much habit driven person. And I’ve developed like kind of bulletproof armour kind of like you’re talking about of just trying to go through life with ease and approach business with ease and, you know, revisiting what are what are my actual priorities here, I always try to prioritise people make sure my team is okay. And I think another thing too, as a I’m a course creator myself. So I really understand our customer. My wife and I started an online course project way before lifter LMS about organic gardening and permaculture, we started partnering with experts all over the world. You know what one of the coolest things we did is we took our family to our little girls to Costa Rica for a winter. And we filmed what’s known as a two week permaculture design course, down there, in the jungles of Costa Rica, where people are, you know, we’re one of the best experts in the world on the topic was teaching on how to do that. That’s a subject matter that in an industry that’s not really online that well. So it’s a huge opportunity. And that’s why we and we’re also really into that kind of stuff. But what I remember being down there in the you know, Costa Rican jungle, just doing this, just so satisfied with how life was rolling. But, you know, when we were down there, this was in the early days of transitioning out of Alaska didn’t have much money could barely afford to get to Costa Rica. I think I ate out twice in Costa Rica over that entire winter, you know, eating a lot of beans and fruit, but couldn’t be happier couldn’t be happier. And William Emily happy
David Ralph [31:45]
living with a man who’s just eating beans and fruits. That’s not good to have a family in that situation is it?
Chris Badgett [31:54]
It was good. I remember our Christmas tree that year was there was no you know, there’s no spruce trees or anything down there, we got a I found a stick in the jungle, and we’ve got one string of blue light. And we put it on there. And, you know, we each had very small, modest presence, but it was in that, you know, but we had like this, you know, amazing experience that the girls will always remember. And that was, that was one of those leaps like this scary leap of and at that time, my agency wasn’t doing that. Well for building websites. For others. It was just in the early days, but I feel like that was one of those. Okay, I’m gonna walk the plank, just like I’ve walked to a lot, but not literally, but just how I was like, Okay, I’m going to Alaska. It’s scary. But you know, it’s kind of that feel the fear and do it anyways moment that, you know, if I had not have done that none of this other stuff downstream would have ever happened. And even that scary thing of leaving the country without much money and all that is that in and of itself ended up being an amazing experience. Because I
David Ralph [33:05]
don’t understand homeschooling. I love my kids to bits, I’m glad at eight o’clock in the morning when they clear off. And I know until three o’clock in the afternoon, you know, I’m free of them before they come back. I don’t understand. Chris, why do you want to have your kids around you all the time?
Chris Badgett [33:22]
Well, to be totally Frank, what we do is something called unschooling so that’s like homeschooling with no curriculum. And this is one it ties into lifter LMS and what I do in a big way, because I am super passionate about learning. You know, I love learning about nature, animal psychology, you know, the sled dogs, you know, endurance things. I just love learning. I’m obsessed. I listen to podcasts all the time I I’m building a cabin, teaching myself construction with some great friends and all this. But because I love learning, we have decided to unschool our kids, which means my job as a parent is to just put things in their way and whatever they show interest in whether it’s music, dance, art, starting a business, whatever, we just kind of facilitate but let them lead the learning process. And that’s one of the reasons why we moved where we did on the coast of Maine is there is a large unschooling community here, where you had that support network. So just like you said, it is good. When those kids when the kids go away and do stuff, but we’re in a community we need it. That’s why we chose where we live. so that there can be you know, the wilderness survival camp or the you know the playdate at the person’s house, who’s teaching piano and all these different things to kind of create that break for the parents, but at the same time, allow the kids to just follow their passions. Both my daughters have their own startups. One of them has a flower business. She’s planning, we just planted a couple 100 bulbs tulips and stuff. And the other one has a egg business. She’s
David Ralph [35:11]
got well did I Chris, your kids?
Chris Badgett [35:14]
five and seven? They’ve got
David Ralph [35:16]
five and seven, and I’ve got their own businesses.
Chris Badgett [35:19]
Yeah. And that was their choice. Nobody pushed that on.
David Ralph [35:22]
So and then did I struggle with setting up PayPal and stuff? Did they? Or did you know? Are they better than me, Chris? Is this what I’m trying to ask?
Chris Badgett [35:32]
Possibly, but they’re not. They’re not doing the technology piece. They’re the core fundamentals of, you know, the stand up the end of the street. And, you know, they’re not doing the internet marketing yet.
David Ralph [35:45]
But what are you doing is absolutely right. You know, what you said, there, you’re teaching kids to find their passion and find things. And I agree with that totally. And that’s one of the problems I’ve, I don’t like the education system, because it’s boring. It’s so boring. And it’s all about getting your tests and getting there. And I always say to my kids, and I always say this on the show, but, you know, just go for the things you like doing, don’t worry about the things you don’t like, even if it looks good on your CV or resume, who cares that you can’t speak four languages, you know, just just do what you want to do. And that’s what you’re doing. Your kids are gonna grow up with an ability to see you as a hustler entrepreneur, but kind of in control of their own time and realise that they don’t actually have to then go off to an office and just do a job. Because it’s a job, they’ve got choices. And it’s that choices, which is the big thing that you’re showing the world, isn’t it?
Chris Badgett [36:37]
Yeah, it’s a it’s a personal leadership ability. And like, there’s certain things that happened in my life, like the I didn’t realise till later in life that I was an entrepreneur. And it’s, I don’t think that was, you know, a lot. And that’s not the way school isn’t really designed to crank out entrepreneurs. And not everybody’s meant to be an entrepreneur. And that’s okay, too. But when I look back on my school, I had a great education, and was lucky to go to good schools and all of that, but I feel like it was that time wasn’t necessarily well spent. so bored at school, I was extremely, extremely bored, extremely bored. So nothing against teachers or any of that, but the system just wasn’t really designed for me. Now,
David Ralph [37:24]
I think that’s right. And I say to my kids all the time, you know, when I was growing up in the 70s, teachers were just lunatics and mental cases, they were just like, you know, just shouldn’t have been teachers, really, I don’t know why they ever put in classes, I go up to the schools now. And they just seem to be vibrant, and inspired and sort of a lot younger. But then again, I’m getting to the old age that most people look a lot younger to me, but they just seem to be wanting to be there. But when I was growing up in the 70s, these people were just, you know, they were just bored with life themselves. And the last thing they wanted to do was stand in front of a load of kids who were bored. And so it was like a boredom tsunami that just kind of just grew up around us. I couldn’t wait to get out of school. And so the fact that your kids are doing that you’ve sold me, Chris, you’ve sold me, I’m going to take my kids out of school, I’m gonna unschool them. And I’m gonna show them pups pups in the United Kingdom and see, and see if there’s a passion for that. And then we can go drinking every single day, what’s your thing?
Chris Badgett [38:25]
It’s up to them.
David Ralph [38:27]
Now it’s not I’m the parent, Chris, you’ve lost. You’ve lost track of your kids, you’ve got no control on them. So in your life now away from the family and stuff, I am fascinated, but the education piece is so big in you, you are a sponge, and you want to absorb around you even though when you was at school, you were bored. You just didn’t want it. How can you take lifter LMS to sort of bigger and bigger heights? Is it more and more kind of sexy bits on it? Or is it just sending it to more people? What’s your plans going forward?
Chris Badgett [39:04]
So my plan I’m obsessed with learning and there’s there’s three main pieces of what how I see amazing learning experiences work. And what I’m trying to do is to map those three pieces to software basically, and also at the same time, leverage the incredible power of the internet to you know, amplify that even further. So let me ask you, David and the it’s like, think about one of the best learning experiences in your life, whatever that was. Typically, there are other people around it’s not happening in isolation. And so for example, we just released a one of our add ons around a concept called social learning, which creates like a Facebook like experience inside your website. But what we’re what we’re doing is part of learning happens in conversation. Around, you know, the material, it’s not just about content, like a traditional classroom, like, here’s the content, let me give you the content, and then the test, you’re going to talk it back to me. It’s not, that’s not how amazing learning experience happened. There’s a community aspect. So we’re working on community. The other piece is leadership. So just like we were mentioning about the, the pub idea, the, the, or the, the egg business or whatever. The there’s, in many ways, the education system isn’t really set up to put the learner in a leadership position. Whereas some of our best experiences in life, like for you, I’m just guessing, you know, when you got into podcasting, you found this flow, and you found this passion. But that took a lot of leadership on your part, as you’re learning the tools. Perhaps in the beginning, you don’t really know what you’re doing. But you’re just following the thread. Yeah, just like I was following the thread to Alaska and sled dogs and everything that takes real leadership. So putting the learner in the driver’s seat in as many ways as possible. And allowing them to guide is a big part of our mission, which is also why, you know, we’re on two sides, we’re also the teacher side. So allowing teachers to create courses, maybe their small courses like for you, you might want to put together, like an ideal learning programme might include a little business thing over here, a little podcasting thing over here, marketing thing over here, but there’s all these kind of like micro learning opportunities that are out there, which takes leadership on the educator side to put that together. So and then the other one is just mapping learning to the real world, you know, we talked about that helicopter door being up and you know, someone saying, Hey, what are you gonna do in the real world, I’m like, I am in the real world. Like, we’re standing on a glacier, and it’s melting, it’s getting smaller. This is actually the earth here. But a lot of learning is it’s not just content. It’s not just ideas and frameworks, we want to apply it, we want to map that to the real world. So it’s, it’s the difference between learning about podcasting. Like, okay, I need this Rode mic or whatever. But, but then there’s also actually doing it setting up having feedback loops open, where, you know, whatever you’re learning is being applied. And that is being mapped to the success or failure of the programme. So we’re working on a feature right now called reality check, which just allows, you know, courses, online courses, to have a quantifiable way to map to the real world, so that the student can tell if it’s working, so that the teacher can tell is working so that prospective students who are looking at the course can say like, Oh, 73% of people who do this, get the result promised in the marketing it. So really, bringing online education, to not just content, but applied, you know, results in the real world and reality and what we call results based learning, and having lots of feedback loops to make sure it’s working. That’s a big piece of what we’re exploring at lifter. And, yeah, those are some of the things that drive us and how we how we guide the product,
David Ralph [43:31]
I’ll tell you that these decent feedback, but one of the things that annoys me with a lot of these platforms is if I’ve got a website, it’s there’s a certain Look, there’s a certain colorization. And these platforms are great, and it’d be brilliant if you could link it to your own. And when somebody clicks through, they haven’t realised they’ve gone on to a different website, and is yours tailorable can you change the colours and the headings? So you can blend it and it looks like the same thing?
Chris Badgett [43:59]
Yeah, I mean, that was one of the issues we solved on day one, which was on in the world of WordPress. You can there were a lot of LMS options out there, but you had to create a separate website or you had to it was a theme that came with its own design that wasn’t really customizable, but we built lifter LMS as a plugin, which means you can just add it right to your existing website, and it’s gonna inherit all the, you know, styles and typography and headings and colours that you already have. So if you do decide to put it on a different website, um, you know, we have a theme so that you can tweak the dials and make it look like your existing website. But what most people do is they just bolt it right on to their existing website, and now they have courses.
David Ralph [44:49]
Brilliant, this, this is the way forward, you’re changing the world. I think I think it’s gonna be an amazing thing. Now what we’re gonna do just before we send you back in time, we’re gonna listen to the words of today. jobs. But I do have a question. And we can go over to the website, but I’m sure a lot of people are interested in it. What kind of courses if you’re talking about a free plugin? But also Is it an annual membership? Is it a monthly membership is there different levels.
Chris Badgett [45:16]
It’s a free plugin. And then we have various add ons that do different things. So our our core plugin is, it’s completely possible to create, sell and protect engaging online courses. Our most popular add on for example, is a stripe add on, which allows people to take credit card payments. Another popular one is our theme, which does which allows you if you are building as a standalone website to tweak the design without having to hire a developer. And we also have add ons to integrate with email marketing tools, and things of that nature. And then we have these advanced add ons for things like the social learning or if you’re a coach and doing some kind of coaching, we have something called private areas, which allows you to have private content and conversation between you and a particular student. So you could have Courses Plus, you can upsell coaching and that kind of thing. That’s an advanced add on. But what most people into when they do buy, they buy one of our two bundles, which is basically bundles of some or all of our software. And those are annual licences, which, which means what you’re paying for every year is access to updates, automatic software updates and support. So that’s that’s how the the model of it all works. But there’s lots of people that just use the free plugin, and they’re happy with that, too.
David Ralph [46:45]
I think they should be I think they should be. And I think they should be grateful to you, Chris. And I think they should, they should come and buy some of your daughter’s plants out of our gratitude for you. But these are the words of the late Steve Jobs. And he created the whole theme of Join Up Dots. He didn’t know that he was going to do that. But this is the true legacy. So let’s listen to the words again, his deep job, of course,
Steve Jobs [47:05]
it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards. 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [47:41]
I shouldn’t say this, but you’re going to be a man that goes yeah, I buy into those words.
Chris Badgett [47:46]
Yeah, that is that is good. That was good.
David Ralph [47:50]
So the question I always ask for everyone. Chris, when you look back on how you’ve got to this moment and how you got to lift the LMS was there was a moment, was there a conversation? Was there a meeting that you would say that was my big dot that that was when things really started going in the direction of where I
Chris Badgett [48:07]
am. I would say that moment for me has happened several times where I’ve been on the plank, and looking over the edge and feeling drawn, but unsure if it would work or if it was a good idea at all, but feeling very strongly about the pole in that direction. Whether it was a major pivot, like a major change of location, or a project that seemed uncertain, but there was a lot of passion towards or a partnership or a team situation where every time I’ve looked over that plank, there’s a feeling I almost can’t put words to it. But when I feel that feeling that I need to try this out, I might fail but it’s it’s worth a shot. Every time I’ve taken that leap. It ended up everything ended up being okay, there’s often a lot of struggle, but I had to as long as I stayed with it and kept following that thread it all worked out.
David Ralph [49:12]
And are you on the path? Is this your actual legacy work as I was saying with the Steve Jobs quote, or do you think yourself now this is just the beginning. This is just global domination I’m after.
Chris Badgett [49:25]
For me, I am on the path. And as you can see with you know, following my passions and learning, you know about sled dogs or business or leadership or software and also opening up learning for my kids. I am this is my life’s work. And really, I’m at the phase where as I look around, like I said, I see all these people with all this opportunity trapped inside of them and in terms of teaching and it basically unlocking wisdom in the world, so I feel like I’m why I had this key. And I want to give it to as many people as possible, so that they can, you know, have greater impact and potentially build a business around that. That is my life’s work. And I’m, I’m really loving it and enjoying it. And so
David Ralph [50:18]
you should, because a business that is created about providing value value value, ultimately, I believe, is the quickest way to bring back and I think that’s the mistake that so many people make they go for the What can I get out of it, where you should just focus all the time in providing the gifts for the world? And then the world will look in your direction and throw more than what you need back at? Yeah, would you say?
Chris Badgett [50:41]
100%? Agree? Good. And
David Ralph [50:43]
like Chris, I might go? Do I sound knowledgeable? Do I sound like somebody to work listen to?
Chris Badgett [50:49]
Absolutely, I mean, you’re almost about to break 1000 episodes, you’ve learned a lot on your show and in your your journey. And if
David Ralph [50:57]
I wasn’t drinking at the same time, I’d be perfectly perfect is the booze as brought me down? Well, this is the part of the show that we’ve been leading up to. And this is the part that we call this sermon on the mic when we send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time to speak to young Chris, which age would you choose? And what advice would you like to give them? Well, we’re going to find out because I’m going to play the theme. When it fader up, this is the Sermon on the mic
Unknown Speaker [51:32]
with the best bit of the show.
Chris Badgett [51:47]
So I would go back to my 13 year old self. And I would say to Chris, there’s a couple things that you should do, or think about doing to get the most out of you know, what’s coming down the road. One of those is to learn more, I’d be open more to the business world, and, and be open to entrepreneurship and what that might what that is and what that might mean. The other thing I would tell Chris is that it’s okay to be an extreme introvert. And to like, look into that and see what that’s all about. And it doesn’t mean that you know, you don’t hang out with people or you know, have lots of great relationships, but there’s a way to take care of yourself as an introvert, that is not clear and not necessarily what pop culture is saying. So I talked to Chris about that. And I would just encourage Chris to, to always not stress about whatever he’s feeling pulled towards, and you know that it is going to be okay, and that he should keep following his passion for the outdoors in the wilderness. Because once you My greatest superpower in the wilderness, looking back, and what I would tell Chris, and I’ve done this is I can survive with very little, you know, in the wilderness and hostile locations. And once you develop that skill, nothing in business or relationships and the curveballs that life throws when you have that core foundation of survival. It puts everything else into perspective. And to, I’d say, Chris, to follow that, you know, even though a lot of the world is not really focused on the world itself, it’s focused on things that people built, that it’s okay to focus on that, that wilderness piece and just to encourage Chris to follow that because that’s where his greatest strength and his power comes from.
David Ralph [54:10]
I hope you’re listening little Chris, because you’ve got a bloody good life ahead of you, you really have and, and you can take it wherever you want. And that is the message of this whole show. That’s the message of Join Up Dots I suppose. So Chris, what is the number one best way that our audience who’ve been listening to you can connect with you, sir?
Chris Badgett [54:28]
Head on over to lifter lms.com. And if you scroll down to the bottom, there’s a some contact links. And one of the things that I do that’s a little different. I talked about the importance of human connection and learning is I make it possible for anybody in the world to schedule a 15 minute call with me. I’m not trying to automate everything to the point that humans don’t connect with each other. I love talking with customers, potential customers, people who just want to talk and I schedule a certain amount of time, everyone Week for those calls. So if you want to connect with me head on over to lifter LMS comm and I’d love to chat. I’m also all over social media and that kind of stuff, too. I think
David Ralph [55:10]
I’m going to book every single slot for the next two weeks, Chris, you’ll never get away from me now. always easy. And again, easy again. But Chris, thank you so much for spending time with us today, joining up those dots. And please come back again when you’ve got more dots to join up. Because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Chris, thank you so much.
Chris Badgett [55:33]
Thank you, David.
David Ralph [55:36]
Chris Badgett, so lifter LMS it really is a platform that can, you know, literally change your life because it’s so difficult with all these different sort of elements to bring together a business, you know, I’ve gone through it, and I’ve spent so much money that’s just being wasted by something that I thought was gonna be the thing that pull it all together. I thought lifter LMS was brilliant. I also thought Chris was brilliant. I love the fact that he is location independent. His team is global. He’s the kind of online entrepreneur that I hope to be when I when I grow up, I’d like to be just like Chris Padgett. But um, until the next time, I’m just going to be like David Ralph, and we will see you shortly on another episode of Join Up Dots. If you liked this episode, please share it with your colleagues, please tell the person who’s sitting next to you. Go and listen to this guy because it really does help to grow the show. And until next time, I’ll see you again. Cheers. See ya.
Outro [56:34]
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant sell fewer wants to become. So he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to Join Up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on Join Up Dots.
Intro [0:00]
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK, David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:25]
Yes, hello there. Good. Morning, well, I’m feeling all infused today, because it’s going to be one of those conversations that will if it doesn’t infuse you guys, I think God, I can make a go of this, I can make a go of this and create my own life. When there’s something wrong, you’re probably on our life support system. And you shouldn’t be listening to podcasts anyway. But today, guy, he’s going to be an inspirational guy, because when he he connected with us on Join Up Dots, email, that’s how we like to call it. He’s email a request says I’m a technology entrepreneur who built an online course building software called lifter LMS. I used to live on a glassier in Alaska with a couple of 100 sled dogs and managed a sled dog taught business there, you could only get there by helicopter. Well, when you get back come through to you when you know that it’s going to be an interesting conversation. But it’s not just these icy beginnings that interest me. But more importantly, what he’s doing now and the struggle he has gone through getting there. He’s the founder of as I say lifter LMS an online resource to help people across the globe, create their own online courses without all the techie struggle that bogs them all down. It’s time to stop stringing together separate software tools into a software Frankenstein to get all the functionality you need lifter. LMS is the all in one solution. Many online course creators, teachers and entrepreneurs like you, yes, like you have been looking for it says on the website. And I don’t normally say this kind of thing in the introduction. But this platform looks amazing. And it’s so needed by so many other people, but I speak to but have all the knowledge but then lose their way within the setup. Now, things are good for our guests now as they should be. And as he says, I’ve gone through hard times with little money, security and lots of stress while having a wife and two wonderful, homeschooled children. That depended on me. Now things are great financially in terms of stability. But there was a lot of struggle and I’m happy to share openly about the journey. So where do we start with the dogs and the woolly hats or the moment that lifter LMS first popped into his head and the change in his life since that time? Well, let’s do all of them and bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr. Chris Badgett. Good morning, Chris. How are you, sir?
Chris Badgett [2:34]
I’m doing great. Thanks. Good to be with you, David.
David Ralph [2:37]
I felt inspired. I felt all inspired. I wanted to get it out as quickly as possible. So we could get into the conversation because you are a man. You’re coming to you brilliantly weird. And I’m going to be that’s the biggest kind of compliment. I can tell you, you are brilliantly weird. I look at it. And I think, where do we start? Where do you want us to start? Chris?
Chris Badgett [2:59]
I take that is a compliment. I think that glacier is probably a good place to start.
David Ralph [3:03]
Let’s go there. Let’s so let’s go there. Now I’m, I’m the controlling freak. I’m the host of Join Up Dots. I’m going to go even further back. So you had a business partner but first appeared on the show way back on episode 94 of Join Up Dots called Thomas Patrick levy. Now I want to talk about him first because he was a very interesting guy. And he was somebody but I remember talking to him. And I was thinking he’s got it all. But he kind of lacked direction he lacked an anchor he lacked, and something to sort of rein in his creativity. He was kind of like blasting out in all directions. Would that be true? You spend time with him on a daily basis? Do you think most people in the creative online environment struggle with that direction point? Or do you need somebody else like yourself to sort of rein it all in?
Chris Badgett [3:55]
So somewhat, I think the really interesting thing about Thomas is he is an artist, which comes through in his poetry, and his ability to code and engineer. And I think that’s what makes him a great engineer is I don’t know a lot of engineers that also geek out on poetry and really get into that. But Thomas just embraces that creative flow 100% and it oozes out in all kinds of different directions. But he really does, like you’re saying need somebody like me, we make a great partnership where we’re completely, I’m creative, but in a different way. And together, we get the train on the tracks, but we need each other and we depend on each other and we count on each other.
David Ralph [4:38]
But the reason I started with that question is I’m seeing it time and time again with the people that I speak to. And certainly the Uber famous, the Uber successful, that there is somebody with you, but they might be the front face. They might be the person that sort of is the profile but as somebody that actually complements their strengths. Now we’ve lift that out MSX could you have done it without him? Could he have done it without you did you really need to come together
Chris Badgett [5:07]
absolutely would not have happened without each other. There’s just different skill sets that come into play to pull something like that off. And we also have a greater team around us. It was essential to but his strength in engineering and creative problem solving and mind with people and understanding the market and the creative energy behind creating courses and teaching and doing it online. We just mash that together. But we absolutely could not have done it without each other in our team.
David Ralph [5:40]
Now, let’s just start with that, then again, because it is a big point that I’m trying to make. But people that have got a vision, people that have got a dream of what they want to do. It’s almost impossible, I think, and I’ve learned from experience I’ve created Join Up Dots and everything from from scratch with myself. And I look back on it and think If only I could have found that person that would really have sort of sped me on. How do you make a decision on who to choose as a business partner? How do you know that it’s not going to be somebody that’s great in a bar sounds like your best mate but actually turns into a complete freak mental case when you’re working with them. How do you choose?
Chris Badgett [6:21]
I think it’s it’s less of a choice as it is something that happens through shared experience. And what I mean by that is Thomas and I worked together for a long time before we became business partners. I actually hired him. as a freelancer inside of my agency. I was doing freelance web development shortly after leaving Alaska, basically building websites for people. And I realised that I needed some more serious developer muscle, not someone just like me, who could put the tools together around business problems. I needed someone who could go deeper. And then later we merged our companies together. But it was, you know, after at least a year of knowing each other. He worked for me. And I actually freelanced for his company for a little while doing project management. So we had a relationship there. So I really knew what I was getting into when it came to that business partnership moment. But it was it was a process.
David Ralph [7:18]
Because I started watching a film the other day. Well, what stood out to me I thought was brilliant, the founder the history of McDonald’s with Michael Keaton, and how these two guys who created McDonald’s, brought in somebody that they quite frankly needed. But then he he kind of took control and actually took the company away from them. That’s that’s kind of a scary story. But I watched fear. And so I’m fascinated with that career choice or point in the right person, because for every Thomas but every Chris, there’s got to be an equal Ying Ying Yang of people that don’t work together, and the company just kind of falls apart because of it.
Chris Badgett [7:54]
Yeah, it does happen. And we actually used to be a three way business partner. situation, we had another business partner. In the very beginning, it ended up not working out, he kind of ended up wanting to do other things, but it ended very amicably, and there was no, you know, hostile takeover or stress around that. But it is true that sometimes it does not work out. And I do see around me a lot of businesses fail. And partnerships that turn sour. But at the end of the day, with Thomas and myself, there’s just a mutual trust and respect that, you know, is the backbone of our relationship. And it truly does feel like one plus one does not equal two, it equals three are much more than that. And we’re just we need each other. We want each other’s help and we count on each other.
David Ralph [8:46]
Did you ever see him first thing in the morning and say, Thomas, you complete me? Did you ever because I feel there’s a love thing going on here.
Chris Badgett [8:53]
I mean, about once a year, we were just in Mexico at a business conference that we go to every year, a small mastermind a really amazing experience called Cabo press. And we usually had that kind of, you know, Hey, bro hug. Thanks so much. It’s so great. I’m so glad we met each other. We usually have that once a year.
David Ralph [9:12]
It doesn’t go to tongues doesn’t go to tongues.
Chris Badgett [9:16]
It does not. We’re both happily married.
David Ralph [9:18]
I’ll tell you after a few beers, we’ve we’ve all been there. We’ve all been there. The marriage goes out the window and you get experimental. You never know what’s gonna occur when you’re down in Mexico. So it’ll take you to another situation where maybe body heat was required, which is the most perfect segue I’ve ever done. Alaska. Now was was that part of the plan? Did you plan or were you escaping from a situation because to me that sounds kind of adventurous, but it sounds awful as well that you’re running these these Huskies across the Alaskan glassier How did you end up there?
Chris Badgett [9:51]
That’s a great question. I know you said earlier in your intro about how this is all about going after your dreams. And maybe I’m alone. A little different in that way. But I’ve always had an irreverent commitment and, and an ear to what my dreams are. So I actually grew up in a college town in North Carolina very far from the glaciers of Alaska. But I used to remember when I was like in college, for example, up in the mountains of North Carolina, I was on my college house porch, just looking out over the mountains. And I used to envision, like bigger mountains like the Alaskan mountains, off there in the distance. And I always wanted to go there, I ended up while I was in college, I spent some time in Nepal and the Himalaya, I studied abroad there, but I’ve always gone after my dreams. And for me, I’ve always been pulled towards the mountains towards nature, towards culture, towards endurance events, like for example, I took a semester off of college to hike the Appalachian Trail for some reason. The struggle has always appealed to me. And in some ways, I think it is an escape for me from what I would consider, you know, the, quote, real world, but in my opinion, when I kind of drop into that, I feel like I am actually standing in the real world. And I tell a story where sometimes, you know, this actually happened a lot people would land to go on a sled dog ride in a helicopter, they’d come off and meet, shake hands, and they’d be like, Wow, this is amazing. What are you going to do in the real world? And in my view, I would always answer back. This is the real world, you’re standing on it like this is, you know, the real world without all the stuff. But anyways, that’s, that’s kind of the perspective I take. But I’ve always just been super passionate about nature, animals travel endurance, and, and really that indomitable human spirit. And I’ve always embraced the cultural differences around the world. And, you know, enjoyed that. And, and that’s all kind of wrapped up into how I ended up in Alaska.
David Ralph [12:10]
So what if you’ve got that passion flooding through you? And I imagine if we met that’s the small you the five year old, you were probably out in the woods, looking at nature, you can’t escape from what you naturally are? How did you end up building this educational platform for online courses? Because that seems a big departure from the quest that you were just revealing to us?
Chris Badgett [12:34]
Yeah, in many ways. I felt like I won the lottery and that I went after my dream job. And I got it, you know, in terms of living on a glacier in Alaska, with sled dogs, and working with amazing people, I felt like I found my tribe, in many ways. But at the same time, I my background, academically and also, just from a personal interest standpoint, is in anthropology and culture. So for me, it was later in life, I used to think that business was kind of evil and not worth really pursuing in any way. But as I kind of in my off time, you know, as I was reading books, and you know, scanning things on the internet, it just slowly evolved that I got into the subject of marketing, but not as a lead me Make Money Online kind of perspective, more is just a fascination with human nature. When I was in college, I did a lot with anthropology, sociology, psychology, but I never really thought about that stuff applied to a business context. And it’s really weird, and it’s almost like I live it, I started living in two different worlds, you know, in the rugged outdoor world. But in my mind, and my personal studies, I got really into just starting to read it and understand about business as I was in Alaska, and I became a leader of an organisation and managing people, I started reading more business books, and I was always trying to improve myself. And you know, anybody knows when they become a manager of people, that it’s hard, it’s easy, there’s no playbook you’re often promoted because of your ability as a technician, but not necessarily as a you know, as a leader of people. So I started reading these books and it just slowly evolved where I got into business I got into you know, the the, I started reading about online business and then it just hit me like a lightning bolt when I realised, you know, the true power of the internet is not just the access to information, but the connection to people and as a world traveller. The idea that, okay, I could I have something unique that I could add, and I could connect to almost anyone in the world. I used to be up there on the glacier you know, completely unplugged from technology. I’ve always had trouble sleeping. thing. And I’d be up like at two o’clock, three o’clock in the morning under the moon having a cup of tea, you know, out on the glacier looking at everybody at the tents where everybody’s sleeping. And I’d be thinking about a, you know, a computer screen a browser on the internet thinking like, Man, what can I teach? What can I teach? What What would my face in that little video player box be talking about? That would be an alignment with my values, and integrity, and it just kind of slowly evolved. From there. That was the starting point. For me.
David Ralph [15:31]
I think what you said there was absolutely key, we’ve all got knowledge. Now, online courses at the moment, are everywhere, everywhere you go, somebody is an expert in something. But more often than not, they’re creating something that is what they think the marketplace wants. But I think what you’ve done is, is absolutely spot on, you’ve actually blended what you want to bring to the world with your own personal values. And that’s when something more powerful than just creating an online course or creating a business applies. Now, as you’re sitting, I don’t even know where you are. Are you at home? Are you in a in a kibbutz in Israel? Where are you?
Chris Badgett [16:11]
There’s a great question. I’m also I believe you’re in your garden office. I’m in a travel trailer, we just spent a year on the road. We used to live in Montana. Now I live on the coast of Maine in the United States. But I have my offices set up in our travel trailer in the yard. And I’m currently building you know, a cabin office. So I’m in my backyard, right now is where I’m at, in, in Maine by the ocean.
David Ralph [16:39]
I think if I could be anywhere on Earth, I always say this. There’s two places I would like to live. I’d like to live in California. But I don’t want the taxes. The taxes are ridiculous in California. So I’m not going to go there. But one of the places I do like I love Maine, and Cape Cod sort of area, because you’ve got such different seasons, haven’t you? It’s so windswept and, and sort of isolated in certain places. And I feel that I’m more connected to myself when there’s no one around me, which is bizarre because I turn on the microphone, and I invite the world towards me. But I find that Maine is the place that sort of recharges me So is that a kind of kindred spirit to Alaska does it give you the the outside, but you obviously need the ability to build a wind blasting your face pulled a woolly hat on and striped across the beach
Chris Badgett [17:31]
100% I’m a big outdoor guy. So I enjoy like walking and getting in nature. And I’m either all in online, or I’m completely out, you know, doing stuff in nature. And for me, I realised kind of funny, in a funny way later in life. Like when I was in college, I had the realisation that I was an extreme introvert. So I think that’s another reason why I’m attracted to remote locations. Because I just need that to recharge and, you know, just drop into my head and spend time just alone without input. So that’s a that’s why that’s another reason why I’m attracted, I think to these remote places, I do enjoy going to cities and conferences, and I can be very social, but I do it in short bursts in alignment with my personality. Now
David Ralph [18:21]
we believe that LMS your learning management system, which honestly, as I said the introduction, I was looking at this and I thought this is brilliant. Because I have created courses where I got so bogged down with this plugin and trying to link it to pay pal and all these different things. You should have shouted louder, sir, because I would have I would have bought this. I didn’t know it was out there. But when you look at that there is a team around you, are you you’re not all living in Maine together, you’re not building some community or cabin for the whole team to be. Are you spread out across the globe is a US based? How do you connect with the team to make sure that everybody’s doing what they need to do?
Chris Badgett [19:02]
We are spread out around the globe. Most of my friends probably think they work in construction and do things like that, that many of them don’t understand what I do. They think I talked to my computer all day. I can only imagine what the neighbours think. But yeah, we’re completely remote team. You know, for a while before the product business, we did agency work and we’re about 17 people and totally spread out different countries, predominantly in the US but also abroad in various areas. But one of the ways I take my you know leadership management experience from other parts of life and apply it to online. And also, you know, other people in the team lead in different ways. But one of the things that we do from a remote perspective is we don’t just try to like automate everything and everybody’s got a job to do and try not to ever talk to each other. We have a daily standup meeting we call we follow some, what’s known as some rules from agile development where it just involves like good communication and leadership. So we do meet quite a bit. And we’re always connected through a tool called slack. And, you know, we have we, I can get ahold of anybody on my team, or we can schedule a meeting, but we’re very much, almost find that with a remote team, communication becomes even more important. And even just recently, when Thomas and I were in Mexico, we actually brought a member of our team to help, you know, build that relationship, who we’d never met in person worked with for over three years. So we, you know, wanted to continue to deepen the connection. So I’m always focused on building that relationship with the team, allowing people to lead and do their jobs, but also be available when they need help. And, you know, just allowing people making sure that people are in the roles where their strengths are, that’s a big part of how we roll and we don’t really, we try to be a pretty flat and flat organisation, and let the style of the person and what their strengths and passions are lead what they do more than the job description.
David Ralph [21:18]
Well, let’s play some words. Now. Then we’re going to delve back into a course lifter LMS and how you created his and built your team. That’s why you’re here is an educational platform. And he’s Jim Carrey,
Jim Carrey [21:29]
my father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love. Now, I’m
David Ralph [21:55]
asking similar questions on this disk sound clip, but did you know you’re gonna love it? This is the fundamental question I really love to ask. We all say, Oh, you might as well go after what you love. But sometimes you go after what you think you’re gonna love. But it’s not what you actually love. Like, is this more you than Alaska? Where Where is the love in your life? Now?
Chris Badgett [22:21]
I that is a great question. And when I was in Alaska, I was on a path to become a professional sled dog racer, there’s big race called the I did a rod and other races. And I did do some races and learn from the best of the best, and had some great mentors in the sport. But I realised that ultimately, if I was I go all in when I go into something, and I realised that you know what I don’t, I don’t think I want to keep going down that path. There’ll be some great things about it. But there are other things I want to do in life in ways I want to be in the world that I didn’t really know where I was exactly going to end up. But it was that seed of entrepreneurship in me that was I didn’t really realise I was an entrepreneur till my, you know, early 30s. And as I continued to go down, that I realised how my identity was unfolding. And so I pivoted, and I had the, you know, my first daughter, and I wanted to be available and around and just wanted to have a tight bond with my kids and my, my young family. So I pivoted into this digital space, and for me, see, you know, working with people, one of the things that I see, it’s almost like a superpower if I were to put on you know, magic goggles, what I see when I look at people, especially people that have some kind of bend towards what we do at Lyft are helping people teach and deliver training, is I see all kinds of wisdom locked inside of people trapped, that could help so many other people and make the world better in some way and help solve problems galore. Glorious problems are simple problems, but there’s just so much wisdom trapped inside people. That that is part of my life’s mission is helping those education entrepreneurs, as I like to call them. Discover how to release that in a way that helps people helps them build a real business. And that is just one of my drivers and also to do it at a global scale. You know, when you look at the International reach of the internet, there’s so much wisdom outside of the developed world. There’s so much wisdom needed all over the world that you know really democratising education in the digital classroom. That’s my fancy way of saying that really drives me that really drives me in you know, in my anthropology studies and studies abroad, you know, empowering people around the world. World is a big part of what I love to do, I get a lot of satisfaction out of it. It’s why our core software product lifter LMS, which is a WordPress plugin that you can add to a WordPress site is completely free. Because I want education entrepreneurs anywhere to have as little barrier is possible to have an opportunity to teach and build an education company.
David Ralph [25:24]
Now, when you started building your business, more often than not, I think we all fall into the trap of we had this idea. And we think we’ve got to get this out really quickly. Because we’re gonna be ahead of the curve, we’re gonna miss out, we kind of miss out where ultimately it doesn’t matter if 1000s of people create the same kind of thing as you’re creating. There’s just too many people out there. Did you have that kind of pressure to to get it out there and get it to market? Or have you just naturally gone with the flow because you seem a kind of naturally chilled guy.
Chris Badgett [25:55]
Yeah, I am a naturally chilled guy. I some people say I’m kind of calm on the surface, but I’m like, well, there’s kind of like a, you know, a tsunami on the inside. But the, when we first launched, I’m a big fan of the book, the lean startup, anybody who’s ever I was actually listening to one of your episodes, one of your previous guests on recently mentioned that book, but that book talks about your minimum viable product and you know, validating your idea and getting out of the building and talking to customers as soon as possible. So when we first launched lifter LMS, it started with a just a single web page, a sales page with what the product was going to be kind of those Minimum Viable products, key features. And, you know, we built an email list from scratch and interest list. When we, we took about three to four months to build the first version of the product. When we launched it to a very small email list, we had 42 customers, and then we closed that was like in November 2014. And then we closed it down until January 1 the following year or whatever. And in that period, we you know, really engaged with our first batch of customers learn from them what else they needed. And, you know, that was over three years ago, and we continue to evolve ever since. But when we launched there were other players in the space. But in many ways, you know, we did some market research, but mostly, we took take a first principles approach of like, we’re just building tools for people, let’s talk to people find out what they need, in what they’re trying to do to teach or build a business, or get the knowledge out of their head and format it into a digestible course format, let’s just let’s just focus on those problems. And, and solve those problems with technology one step at a time. And that mission has served us very well. And, you know, then we’re that way, we’re always building something that people want. And we’re always open to having our assumptions challenged. So that’s kind of been our flow. And I’m a big fan of not being afraid of competition, and just also doing things your own way. And there’s all kinds of things that makes us different from our competitors, but we didn’t necessarily strike out to be different. We just did things in our own way. And in alignment with our values, and that essentially created our, you know, unique selling proposition
David Ralph [28:35]
is one of the things I do Chris, and I’ve mentioned this numerous times on the show, but at those moments, when you think as I said earlier, I gotta get out, you know, I got I got to work 20 hours a day, I got to be Oh, I’m missing, I’m missing I’m missing is I just go to Google Earth and scroll with my mouse up and down. And I look at streets and I go from my house and I zoom out and I zoom out and I think that there’s no rush, there’s no rush it just that tiny little corner over there or bought a product I was setting then I’m sorted anyway. And I never had that previously. And the more relaxed I am with the show, the more relaxed I am with my coaching platform, and the more relaxed I am by not allowing people to get hold of me. I’m a very closed off book. You can’t just sort of connect with me willy nilly. Everything is easier but more profitable as well. Is that how life is reviewed? you stroll around sometimes on a Monday morning in your underpants thinking? This isn’t a bad life. I’m having a cup of coffee. I’m playing with my kids and actually my business is growing without me.
Chris Badgett [29:42]
Yeah, absolutely. And I’m, I try hard. I mean there are times there’s very smart people who try to make technology tools like Facebook or slack or email very addicting and dependent. So I’ve worked hard to develop like really good habits and I’m very Much habit driven person. And I’ve developed like kind of bulletproof armour kind of like you’re talking about of just trying to go through life with ease and approach business with ease and, you know, revisiting what are what are my actual priorities here, I always try to prioritise people make sure my team is okay. And I think another thing too, as a I’m a course creator myself. So I really understand our customer. My wife and I started an online course project way before lifter LMS about organic gardening and permaculture, we started partnering with experts all over the world. You know what one of the coolest things we did is we took our family to our little girls to Costa Rica for a winter. And we filmed what’s known as a two week permaculture design course, down there, in the jungles of Costa Rica, where people are, you know, we’re one of the best experts in the world on the topic was teaching on how to do that. That’s a subject matter that in an industry that’s not really online that well. So it’s a huge opportunity. And that’s why we and we’re also really into that kind of stuff. But what I remember being down there in the you know, Costa Rican jungle, just doing this, just so satisfied with how life was rolling. But, you know, when we were down there, this was in the early days of transitioning out of Alaska didn’t have much money could barely afford to get to Costa Rica. I think I ate out twice in Costa Rica over that entire winter, you know, eating a lot of beans and fruit, but couldn’t be happier couldn’t be happier. And William Emily happy
David Ralph [31:45]
living with a man who’s just eating beans and fruits. That’s not good to have a family in that situation is it?
Chris Badgett [31:54]
It was good. I remember our Christmas tree that year was there was no you know, there’s no spruce trees or anything down there, we got a I found a stick in the jungle, and we’ve got one string of blue light. And we put it on there. And, you know, we each had very small, modest presence, but it was in that, you know, but we had like this, you know, amazing experience that the girls will always remember. And that was, that was one of those leaps like this scary leap of and at that time, my agency wasn’t doing that. Well for building websites. For others. It was just in the early days, but I feel like that was one of those. Okay, I’m gonna walk the plank, just like I’ve walked to a lot, but not literally, but just how I was like, Okay, I’m going to Alaska. It’s scary. But you know, it’s kind of that feel the fear and do it anyways moment that, you know, if I had not have done that none of this other stuff downstream would have ever happened. And even that scary thing of leaving the country without much money and all that is that in and of itself ended up being an amazing experience. Because I
David Ralph [33:05]
don’t understand homeschooling. I love my kids to bits, I’m glad at eight o’clock in the morning when they clear off. And I know until three o’clock in the afternoon, you know, I’m free of them before they come back. I don’t understand. Chris, why do you want to have your kids around you all the time?
Chris Badgett [33:22]
Well, to be totally Frank, what we do is something called unschooling so that’s like homeschooling with no curriculum. And this is one it ties into lifter LMS and what I do in a big way, because I am super passionate about learning. You know, I love learning about nature, animal psychology, you know, the sled dogs, you know, endurance things. I just love learning. I’m obsessed. I listen to podcasts all the time I I’m building a cabin, teaching myself construction with some great friends and all this. But because I love learning, we have decided to unschool our kids, which means my job as a parent is to just put things in their way and whatever they show interest in whether it’s music, dance, art, starting a business, whatever, we just kind of facilitate but let them lead the learning process. And that’s one of the reasons why we moved where we did on the coast of Maine is there is a large unschooling community here, where you had that support network. So just like you said, it is good. When those kids when the kids go away and do stuff, but we’re in a community we need it. That’s why we chose where we live. so that there can be you know, the wilderness survival camp or the you know the playdate at the person’s house, who’s teaching piano and all these different things to kind of create that break for the parents, but at the same time, allow the kids to just follow their passions. Both my daughters have their own startups. One of them has a flower business. She’s planning, we just planted a couple 100 bulbs tulips and stuff. And the other one has a egg business. She’s
David Ralph [35:11]
got well did I Chris, your kids?
Chris Badgett [35:14]
five and seven? They’ve got
David Ralph [35:16]
five and seven, and I’ve got their own businesses.
Chris Badgett [35:19]
Yeah. And that was their choice. Nobody pushed that on.
David Ralph [35:22]
So and then did I struggle with setting up PayPal and stuff? Did they? Or did you know? Are they better than me, Chris? Is this what I’m trying to ask?
Chris Badgett [35:32]
Possibly, but they’re not. They’re not doing the technology piece. They’re the core fundamentals of, you know, the stand up the end of the street. And, you know, they’re not doing the internet marketing yet.
David Ralph [35:45]
But what are you doing is absolutely right. You know, what you said, there, you’re teaching kids to find their passion and find things. And I agree with that totally. And that’s one of the problems I’ve, I don’t like the education system, because it’s boring. It’s so boring. And it’s all about getting your tests and getting there. And I always say to my kids, and I always say this on the show, but, you know, just go for the things you like doing, don’t worry about the things you don’t like, even if it looks good on your CV or resume, who cares that you can’t speak four languages, you know, just just do what you want to do. And that’s what you’re doing. Your kids are gonna grow up with an ability to see you as a hustler entrepreneur, but kind of in control of their own time and realise that they don’t actually have to then go off to an office and just do a job. Because it’s a job, they’ve got choices. And it’s that choices, which is the big thing that you’re showing the world, isn’t it?
Chris Badgett [36:37]
Yeah, it’s a it’s a personal leadership ability. And like, there’s certain things that happened in my life, like the I didn’t realise till later in life that I was an entrepreneur. And it’s, I don’t think that was, you know, a lot. And that’s not the way school isn’t really designed to crank out entrepreneurs. And not everybody’s meant to be an entrepreneur. And that’s okay, too. But when I look back on my school, I had a great education, and was lucky to go to good schools and all of that, but I feel like it was that time wasn’t necessarily well spent. so bored at school, I was extremely, extremely bored, extremely bored. So nothing against teachers or any of that, but the system just wasn’t really designed for me. Now,
David Ralph [37:24]
I think that’s right. And I say to my kids all the time, you know, when I was growing up in the 70s, teachers were just lunatics and mental cases, they were just like, you know, just shouldn’t have been teachers, really, I don’t know why they ever put in classes, I go up to the schools now. And they just seem to be vibrant, and inspired and sort of a lot younger. But then again, I’m getting to the old age that most people look a lot younger to me, but they just seem to be wanting to be there. But when I was growing up in the 70s, these people were just, you know, they were just bored with life themselves. And the last thing they wanted to do was stand in front of a load of kids who were bored. And so it was like a boredom tsunami that just kind of just grew up around us. I couldn’t wait to get out of school. And so the fact that your kids are doing that you’ve sold me, Chris, you’ve sold me, I’m going to take my kids out of school, I’m gonna unschool them. And I’m gonna show them pups pups in the United Kingdom and see, and see if there’s a passion for that. And then we can go drinking every single day, what’s your thing?
Chris Badgett [38:25]
It’s up to them.
David Ralph [38:27]
Now it’s not I’m the parent, Chris, you’ve lost. You’ve lost track of your kids, you’ve got no control on them. So in your life now away from the family and stuff, I am fascinated, but the education piece is so big in you, you are a sponge, and you want to absorb around you even though when you was at school, you were bored. You just didn’t want it. How can you take lifter LMS to sort of bigger and bigger heights? Is it more and more kind of sexy bits on it? Or is it just sending it to more people? What’s your plans going forward?
Chris Badgett [39:04]
So my plan I’m obsessed with learning and there’s there’s three main pieces of what how I see amazing learning experiences work. And what I’m trying to do is to map those three pieces to software basically, and also at the same time, leverage the incredible power of the internet to you know, amplify that even further. So let me ask you, David and the it’s like, think about one of the best learning experiences in your life, whatever that was. Typically, there are other people around it’s not happening in isolation. And so for example, we just released a one of our add ons around a concept called social learning, which creates like a Facebook like experience inside your website. But what we’re what we’re doing is part of learning happens in conversation. Around, you know, the material, it’s not just about content, like a traditional classroom, like, here’s the content, let me give you the content, and then the test, you’re going to talk it back to me. It’s not, that’s not how amazing learning experience happened. There’s a community aspect. So we’re working on community. The other piece is leadership. So just like we were mentioning about the, the pub idea, the, the, or the, the egg business or whatever. The there’s, in many ways, the education system isn’t really set up to put the learner in a leadership position. Whereas some of our best experiences in life, like for you, I’m just guessing, you know, when you got into podcasting, you found this flow, and you found this passion. But that took a lot of leadership on your part, as you’re learning the tools. Perhaps in the beginning, you don’t really know what you’re doing. But you’re just following the thread. Yeah, just like I was following the thread to Alaska and sled dogs and everything that takes real leadership. So putting the learner in the driver’s seat in as many ways as possible. And allowing them to guide is a big part of our mission, which is also why, you know, we’re on two sides, we’re also the teacher side. So allowing teachers to create courses, maybe their small courses like for you, you might want to put together, like an ideal learning programme might include a little business thing over here, a little podcasting thing over here, marketing thing over here, but there’s all these kind of like micro learning opportunities that are out there, which takes leadership on the educator side to put that together. So and then the other one is just mapping learning to the real world, you know, we talked about that helicopter door being up and you know, someone saying, Hey, what are you gonna do in the real world, I’m like, I am in the real world. Like, we’re standing on a glacier, and it’s melting, it’s getting smaller. This is actually the earth here. But a lot of learning is it’s not just content. It’s not just ideas and frameworks, we want to apply it, we want to map that to the real world. So it’s, it’s the difference between learning about podcasting. Like, okay, I need this Rode mic or whatever. But, but then there’s also actually doing it setting up having feedback loops open, where, you know, whatever you’re learning is being applied. And that is being mapped to the success or failure of the programme. So we’re working on a feature right now called reality check, which just allows, you know, courses, online courses, to have a quantifiable way to map to the real world, so that the student can tell if it’s working, so that the teacher can tell is working so that prospective students who are looking at the course can say like, Oh, 73% of people who do this, get the result promised in the marketing it. So really, bringing online education, to not just content, but applied, you know, results in the real world and reality and what we call results based learning, and having lots of feedback loops to make sure it’s working. That’s a big piece of what we’re exploring at lifter. And, yeah, those are some of the things that drive us and how we how we guide the product,
David Ralph [43:31]
I’ll tell you that these decent feedback, but one of the things that annoys me with a lot of these platforms is if I’ve got a website, it’s there’s a certain Look, there’s a certain colorization. And these platforms are great, and it’d be brilliant if you could link it to your own. And when somebody clicks through, they haven’t realised they’ve gone on to a different website, and is yours tailorable can you change the colours and the headings? So you can blend it and it looks like the same thing?
Chris Badgett [43:59]
Yeah, I mean, that was one of the issues we solved on day one, which was on in the world of WordPress. You can there were a lot of LMS options out there, but you had to create a separate website or you had to it was a theme that came with its own design that wasn’t really customizable, but we built lifter LMS as a plugin, which means you can just add it right to your existing website, and it’s gonna inherit all the, you know, styles and typography and headings and colours that you already have. So if you do decide to put it on a different website, um, you know, we have a theme so that you can tweak the dials and make it look like your existing website. But what most people do is they just bolt it right on to their existing website, and now they have courses.
David Ralph [44:49]
Brilliant, this, this is the way forward, you’re changing the world. I think I think it’s gonna be an amazing thing. Now what we’re gonna do just before we send you back in time, we’re gonna listen to the words of today. jobs. But I do have a question. And we can go over to the website, but I’m sure a lot of people are interested in it. What kind of courses if you’re talking about a free plugin? But also Is it an annual membership? Is it a monthly membership is there different levels.
Chris Badgett [45:16]
It’s a free plugin. And then we have various add ons that do different things. So our our core plugin is, it’s completely possible to create, sell and protect engaging online courses. Our most popular add on for example, is a stripe add on, which allows people to take credit card payments. Another popular one is our theme, which does which allows you if you are building as a standalone website to tweak the design without having to hire a developer. And we also have add ons to integrate with email marketing tools, and things of that nature. And then we have these advanced add ons for things like the social learning or if you’re a coach and doing some kind of coaching, we have something called private areas, which allows you to have private content and conversation between you and a particular student. So you could have Courses Plus, you can upsell coaching and that kind of thing. That’s an advanced add on. But what most people into when they do buy, they buy one of our two bundles, which is basically bundles of some or all of our software. And those are annual licences, which, which means what you’re paying for every year is access to updates, automatic software updates and support. So that’s that’s how the the model of it all works. But there’s lots of people that just use the free plugin, and they’re happy with that, too.
David Ralph [46:45]
I think they should be I think they should be. And I think they should be grateful to you, Chris. And I think they should, they should come and buy some of your daughter’s plants out of our gratitude for you. But these are the words of the late Steve Jobs. And he created the whole theme of Join Up Dots. He didn’t know that he was going to do that. But this is the true legacy. So let’s listen to the words again, his deep job, of course,
Steve Jobs [47:05]
it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards. 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [47:41]
I shouldn’t say this, but you’re going to be a man that goes yeah, I buy into those words.
Chris Badgett [47:46]
Yeah, that is that is good. That was good.
David Ralph [47:50]
So the question I always ask for everyone. Chris, when you look back on how you’ve got to this moment and how you got to lift the LMS was there was a moment, was there a conversation? Was there a meeting that you would say that was my big dot that that was when things really started going in the direction of where I
Chris Badgett [48:07]
am. I would say that moment for me has happened several times where I’ve been on the plank, and looking over the edge and feeling drawn, but unsure if it would work or if it was a good idea at all, but feeling very strongly about the pole in that direction. Whether it was a major pivot, like a major change of location, or a project that seemed uncertain, but there was a lot of passion towards or a partnership or a team situation where every time I’ve looked over that plank, there’s a feeling I almost can’t put words to it. But when I feel that feeling that I need to try this out, I might fail but it’s it’s worth a shot. Every time I’ve taken that leap. It ended up everything ended up being okay, there’s often a lot of struggle, but I had to as long as I stayed with it and kept following that thread it all worked out.
David Ralph [49:12]
And are you on the path? Is this your actual legacy work as I was saying with the Steve Jobs quote, or do you think yourself now this is just the beginning. This is just global domination I’m after.
Chris Badgett [49:25]
For me, I am on the path. And as you can see with you know, following my passions and learning, you know about sled dogs or business or leadership or software and also opening up learning for my kids. I am this is my life’s work. And really, I’m at the phase where as I look around, like I said, I see all these people with all this opportunity trapped inside of them and in terms of teaching and it basically unlocking wisdom in the world, so I feel like I’m why I had this key. And I want to give it to as many people as possible, so that they can, you know, have greater impact and potentially build a business around that. That is my life’s work. And I’m, I’m really loving it and enjoying it. And so
David Ralph [50:18]
you should, because a business that is created about providing value value value, ultimately, I believe, is the quickest way to bring back and I think that’s the mistake that so many people make they go for the What can I get out of it, where you should just focus all the time in providing the gifts for the world? And then the world will look in your direction and throw more than what you need back at? Yeah, would you say?
Chris Badgett [50:41]
100%? Agree? Good. And
David Ralph [50:43]
like Chris, I might go? Do I sound knowledgeable? Do I sound like somebody to work listen to?
Chris Badgett [50:49]
Absolutely, I mean, you’re almost about to break 1000 episodes, you’ve learned a lot on your show and in your your journey. And if
David Ralph [50:57]
I wasn’t drinking at the same time, I’d be perfectly perfect is the booze as brought me down? Well, this is the part of the show that we’ve been leading up to. And this is the part that we call this sermon on the mic when we send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time to speak to young Chris, which age would you choose? And what advice would you like to give them? Well, we’re going to find out because I’m going to play the theme. When it fader up, this is the Sermon on the mic
Unknown Speaker [51:32]
with the best bit of the show.
Chris Badgett [51:47]
So I would go back to my 13 year old self. And I would say to Chris, there’s a couple things that you should do, or think about doing to get the most out of you know, what’s coming down the road. One of those is to learn more, I’d be open more to the business world, and, and be open to entrepreneurship and what that might what that is and what that might mean. The other thing I would tell Chris is that it’s okay to be an extreme introvert. And to like, look into that and see what that’s all about. And it doesn’t mean that you know, you don’t hang out with people or you know, have lots of great relationships, but there’s a way to take care of yourself as an introvert, that is not clear and not necessarily what pop culture is saying. So I talked to Chris about that. And I would just encourage Chris to, to always not stress about whatever he’s feeling pulled towards, and you know that it is going to be okay, and that he should keep following his passion for the outdoors in the wilderness. Because once you My greatest superpower in the wilderness, looking back, and what I would tell Chris, and I’ve done this is I can survive with very little, you know, in the wilderness and hostile locations. And once you develop that skill, nothing in business or relationships and the curveballs that life throws when you have that core foundation of survival. It puts everything else into perspective. And to, I’d say, Chris, to follow that, you know, even though a lot of the world is not really focused on the world itself, it’s focused on things that people built, that it’s okay to focus on that, that wilderness piece and just to encourage Chris to follow that because that’s where his greatest strength and his power comes from.
David Ralph [54:10]
I hope you’re listening little Chris, because you’ve got a bloody good life ahead of you, you really have and, and you can take it wherever you want. And that is the message of this whole show. That’s the message of Join Up Dots I suppose. So Chris, what is the number one best way that our audience who’ve been listening to you can connect with you, sir?
Chris Badgett [54:28]
Head on over to lifter lms.com. And if you scroll down to the bottom, there’s a some contact links. And one of the things that I do that’s a little different. I talked about the importance of human connection and learning is I make it possible for anybody in the world to schedule a 15 minute call with me. I’m not trying to automate everything to the point that humans don’t connect with each other. I love talking with customers, potential customers, people who just want to talk and I schedule a certain amount of time, everyone Week for those calls. So if you want to connect with me head on over to lifter LMS comm and I’d love to chat. I’m also all over social media and that kind of stuff, too. I think
David Ralph [55:10]
I’m going to book every single slot for the next two weeks, Chris, you’ll never get away from me now. always easy. And again, easy again. But Chris, thank you so much for spending time with us today, joining up those dots. And please come back again when you’ve got more dots to join up. Because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Chris, thank you so much.
Chris Badgett [55:33]
Thank you, David.
David Ralph [55:36]
Chris Badgett, so lifter LMS it really is a platform that can, you know, literally change your life because it’s so difficult with all these different sort of elements to bring together a business, you know, I’ve gone through it, and I’ve spent so much money that’s just being wasted by something that I thought was gonna be the thing that pull it all together. I thought lifter LMS was brilliant. I also thought Chris was brilliant. I love the fact that he is location independent. His team is global. He’s the kind of online entrepreneur that I hope to be when I when I grow up, I’d like to be just like Chris Padgett. But um, until the next time, I’m just going to be like David Ralph, and we will see you shortly on another episode of Join Up Dots. If you liked this episode, please share it with your colleagues, please tell the person who’s sitting next to you. Go and listen to this guy because it really does help to grow the show. And until next time, I’ll see you again. Cheers. See ya.
Outro [56:34]
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant sell fewer wants to become. So he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to Join Up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on Join Up Dots.