Christina Lenkowski Joins Us On The Join Up Dots Business Podcast
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Introducing Christina Lenkowski
Christina Lenkowski is our guest today on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots business podcast.
She is a forward-thinking publicity strategist and educator for entrepreneurs, speakers and authors looking to expand their credibility and go from “best-kept secret” to “go-to
expert” in their industries through being a guest on other people’s podcasts.
During her 13 years of PR agency and consulting work, Christina has helped clients earn spots in print publications like Martha Stewart Living, Sunset, Reader’s Digest, and Big Life, and online coverage in MSN.com and TravelChannel.com, among others.
Christina herself has been featured on websites like Medium.com and CEOHacks.com.
How The Dots Joined Up For Christina
She’s been a guest on many podcasts, including Her Empire Builder, Hustle Like a Mother, Health Coach Nation and Launch It Girl, and helped her clients get booked on many other top-rated shows.
As she says “Even though I specialized in PR and publicity (my particular niche was tourism), I was really only promoting my course – or at least trying to – through paid ads and live webinars, because that’s what all the “gurus” and “experts” said to do…
And while those worked for me to a certain extent (kinda), I knew I wasn’t bringing in enough people, and they certainly weren’t coming in with any knowledge of what I was about and had to offer. To be honest, it was a bit of a bottomless money pit of my own creation.
So I started to do for myself what I had been doing for my clients – I got publicity on podcasts.
Well lets find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only smartphone marketing expert Christina Lenkowski
During the show we discussed such weighty subjects with Christina Lenkowski such as
Why it is so important to increase your offering against what your competitors are doing in your field by researching hard.
Christina shares the steps that she takes to keep the interest going in her business on a day to day basis so she doesn’t get bored.
And lastly we talk about………..
We talk openly at why most podcast pitches will fall flat as they do not bring any authenticity to the podcast hosts inbox
How To Connect With Christina Lenkowski
Return To The Top Of Christina Lenkowski
You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here– enjoy
Full Transcription Of Christina Lenkowski Interview
Life shouldn’t be hard life should be a fun filled adventure every day. So now start joining up dots tap into your talents, your skills, your God given gifts and tell your boss, you don’t deserve me. I’m out of here. It’s time for you to smash that alarm clock and start getting the dream business and life you will, of course, are dreaming of. Let’s join your host, David Ralph from the back of his garden in the UK, or wherever he might be today with another jam packed episode of the number one hit podcast. Join Up Dots.
David Ralph [0:41]
Yes, hello, man. Good morning to you. Well, good morning tea is a great day to be alive. Well, today’s guest on the show. She’s somebody that I wanted to have on because I thought I haven’t had anyone who is an expert in her field on the show before so this is a totally new one for me. She’s a forward thinking publicity strategist and educator for entrepreneurs, speakers, and authors looking to expand their credibility and go from a best kept secret to go to expert in their industries through being a guest on other people’s podcasts you say you say she’s on here talking about what she’s doing it she’s doing it already. Now during her 13 years a PR agency and consulting work. She has helped clients and spots in print publications like Martha Stewart Living sunset, Reader’s Digest, and online coverage in msn.com Travel Channel amongst others. Now she’s been a guest on many podcasts, including her Empire Builder hustle like a mother health coach, nation and logic girl and helped her clients get booked on many other top rated shows too. As she says even though I specialised in PR and publicity, my particular niche was tourism, I was really only promoting my court, or at least trying to prove paid ads and live webinars because that’s what all the Guru’s and experts said to do. And what all those worked for me, to a certain extent, kinda, I knew I wasn’t bringing in enough people, and they certainly weren’t coming in with any knowledge of what I was about, and had to offer. To be honest, it was a bit of a bottomless money pit of my own creation. So I started to do for myself, what others have been doing for my clients. I got publicity on podcast, so is being on podcast, but number one route to growing your authority and being seen as an expert in your field. And can you boost your earning potential by appearing on a show too? Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Christina Lenkowski. How are you?
Christina Lenkowski [2:49]
I’m good. Good morning, David. I’m so excited to be here on the show today.
David Ralph [2:53]
Don’t be too excited, Christina. But don’t don’t be too excited. Just Just take it just take it easy. Now, I wanted to have you on the show. Because I’ve got a podcast. I’ve got a podcast and I get I get so many people pitching to come on the shows. And to be honest, Christina, I think most of them are doing it wrong. I really do. And so I wanted you to be on the show so that you could tell me how they should be doing it. And every step of the way I could say to you, Christina, oh, Christina, you’re right. Oh, Christina, your vibe. Because there’s,
Christina Lenkowski [3:31]
I think I think that sounds great. I love being told I’m right. Yeah.
David Ralph [3:36]
It probably won’t happen, Christina. But um, I will try my best to direct that. So So let’s talk about a podcast. First of all, because I’m on one side of the fence. What is actually a podcast? I know, it’s it’s audio content, but for your clients, and the wider understanding of why your clients need to be on them. Why is a podcast to you?
Christina Lenkowski [4:00]
Well, what you just said is very true. It’s audio content. And that’s great. You know, that’s kind of at its core what it is, but really a podcast is the opportunity for someone to tell their story, whether that’s the host, whether that’s the guest, whether that’s both, you know, it kind of it kind of depends on the situation. But really, it’s the opportunity to get your voice, get out in front of brand new people that you might not have had the opportunity to get in front of before. And tell that story provide value. And ultimately, if you’re going at it from a business perspective, get people to start seeking you out.
David Ralph [4:38]
So you’re saying that everybody should come here with a fixed call for action, so that they know exactly the reasons why they’re on the podcast and what they’re aiming to get out of it so that they get some kind of value back from the appearance.
Christina Lenkowski [4:55]
Yes, um, you know, the first thing that whenever I’m meeting with a new client, the first thing We talked about is that strategy behind it, you know, who is your ideal customer? Where is it that you’re trying to drive them? So what is, you know, maybe a free resource you have? Or what is it that you’re trying to ultimately get them towards? And then what are some topics that are going to bridge that gap for people what’s going to take them from where they are right now to where they might want to go pick up that free resource that you have to offer or reach out to you for for maybe a different opportunity?
David Ralph [5:25]
Now, I’m a member back in the day, Christina, and I won’t say this person’s name. But he came on the show. And I asked him a question. And he instantly said something along the lines of David, what I’m talking about is motivation. And M is for the miles that you have to walk to get somewhere. Oh, is and he went on to this speech that I thought to myself, that might work in a big keynote presentation. But actually on a podcast, he was missing the point totally. And it left me cold. Now, do you train your clients to be conversational, because that’s one of the things that I’ve been a lot of people missed a point on, to be on a podcast is not about selling, it’s about being engaging.
Christina Lenkowski [6:15]
It’s about being engaging, and it’s also about providing value to the audience. So those are the two things that we’re always striving towards with our clients, I have a mantra that I teach, and that I really, I mean, I say it multiple times a day, I feel like the clients and that is when we’re pitching. And when we’re a guests on a show. It’s all about service over self promotion. So making sure that we’re providing this value for the audience, they’re going to be able to have something actionable, that they can take away from it something that they’re going to remember. And absolutely having a relationship with the host, you know, at the end is one of the most valuable things that you get out of a podcast. So making sure that there’s a genuine conversation that’s going on, you’re talking about real things that are happening in the world, and the audience, take something from that.
David Ralph [7:03]
Now, when you are pitching somebody, do you actually do your due diligence? Or should your client do the due diligence? Do they actually listen to the show? Because I’ll be I’m blown away by how many people lie to me, Christina. And I say that they’ve listened. But I know damn well that they haven’t. And I always think to myself, why would you appear on anything, if you haven’t sort of done your homework?
Christina Lenkowski [7:30]
Yeah. So when it comes to, you know, me pitching on behalf of my clients, or the people that work for me pitching on behalf of our clients, we do the research. So we do the due diligence, we are listening to the shows before we send any pitch, because like I said, we need to know what that audience is all about what they like to hear about what that host likes to talk about, etc. Like you said, the majority of pitches that you get are, I mean, there’s no other way to put it, they’re awful. And so we really research ours and you know, make sure that we’re representing that client in the best way that we can. But what we do, as soon as we have the booking for our clients is we send them a one sheet that has all the information about the show, a link to you know, the iTunes the show this and that. And we do encourage them to listen to it beforehand, before they hop on, that’s absolutely just kind of bottom of the barrel stuff that we would like them to do before. So I do say before you pitch or before you show up on a show, you should have taken the time to at least listen to, you know, one or two episodes so that you can kind of get the vibe of the show. Now let’s
David Ralph [8:34]
spin it on its head away from your content. And back to you. Now, when I started to show back in 2013, there was only one person doing this. And the lady was sort of very successful, and then more and more people have come out of the woodwork when you start a business for the listeners out there. So this is a question directed to you, Christina. But obviously for the listener, is it important to find a business that’s already got a track record of success by other people? Or is it better to create something new and exciting that nobody’s done before? What do you think?
Christina Lenkowski [9:11]
I mean, I truly think that it’s a mix of both. And I think that, you know, to your point, there’s people that do podcast pitching other people that do podcast pitching, like I do out there in the world. And I totally, you know, understand that and that gives me comfort in knowing Okay, this is something that people obviously want. This is something that many businesses are built on. But on the flip side, I do want to be doing things differently than every other business that’s out there doing it. And that’s why we have certain things that other people don’t offer. Like we have guaranteed numbers on bookings. We have the testimonials from hosts saying these are amazing pitches, thank you. Excuse me, you know, stuff like that. So I think that there has to be kind of a mix of both things. It’s nice to know that you’re, you’re, you know, there’s something out There that this is working for some people, but how can you do it a little bit differently. And this comes from someone, look, the first business I started was a very, like blue ocean type of business. Like if you know that book, it was very no one else was doing what it what that was, and it failed. It didn’t work because there wasn’t the buy in there yet. And so it’s kind of nice to have that mix of both things.
David Ralph [10:23]
So if this was the travel business, that you was creating any niche for local businesses, okay. And that interests me, because I saw that, because I found that website before I found your proper website, because I just googled your name. And as I was reading it, I thought, this is a great idea. Now is that a case of a business that just wasn’t marketed correctly, because it seemed to me to be a winner.
Christina Lenkowski [10:50]
I definitely think that I didn’t know what I was really doing. You know, I loved the idea, the idea is still solid to me. And what I did just for background for people was I taught tourism organisations, how to do their own publicity. And so whether that was a city, whether that was a region, a state, whatever it was, you know, giving them the tools so that they could be doing their own PR, their own outreach, etc. And I spoke all over the country about it, and at different tourism conferences and stuff like that. And I truly did enjoy it and love it. But I think that the marketing definitely was a part of it, I didn’t quite know what I was doing in regards to all that. I was also very against having one on one work. So everything that I was doing was being funnelled towards, like a one to many type of training or membership or this and that. And people would come to me and ask about doing consulting. And I was like, No, that’s not what I do. That’s not what I do. That’s not what I do. And so that was something that really taught me a lesson, when it came to starting this next business. Because I did the same thing. When I started this podcast business, I was just teaching people, I was just kind of doing these courses, that type of thing. And I just had so many people reaching out to me saying, well, could you just do it? That I was like, okay, like, let’s just go ahead and do it. And I very much enjoy it. But that wasn’t what like At first I was I was falling into that same trap. And this time around, though, I started to listen to people, what they were actually asking for, because pitching does take a lot of time, they were more so looking for, for someone to just do it for them. And so I kind of built the business more around that. The other thing that happened with my other business was COVID hit. Um, and so my business had been going and it was still going, you know, in early 2020, although I was already kind of shifting into this new business, and COVID hit and tourism just completely dropped off. We all know that everywhere in the world, you know, people were not travelling anymore. So at that point, I kind of was like, Alright, I think this is, you know, this is a sign for me. I was already thinking of leaning towards this other direction. I’m just going to be done with with the with the tourism one.
David Ralph [13:06]
It’s interesting, Bo, isn’t it? Because marketing at its core is the one thing but I think the majority of us who go in to an online venture, don’t understand. But it’s the one thing that we should understand before anything else we we all seem to turn on our laptop, buy a domain name, create a WordPress site, and then build from that point without actually spending the time looking at the marketing and what are we going to offer so that the logo colouring, the wording everything is congruent with actually attracting the right people. We seem to go about it totally the wrong way.
Christina Lenkowski [13:49]
We do. I couldn’t agree with you more. And that was one thing. One lesson that I really learned from my first business that I took into the second one was that, gosh, I mean, I’ll tell you, David, when I started that first business, I dumped a lot of money into making this beautiful website. You know, building up all this stuff, having the fancy logo, having all these things, and the product itself wasn’t selling, it wasn’t the right product. So when it came to starting this new business, I didn’t do any of that. I was like, Alright, I gotta build up this product. I gotta see if this works before I even you know, put any money into creating anything like a logo or a website or anything like that. I wanted to make sure that this was the right move because I think what you said absolutely happens. People get really caught up and I gotta have this logo, I gotta have this colour, I gotta have this, this particular look at my website. But they those are the fun things. Those are the easy things, those aren’t the things that are actually going to make you money. And so kind of getting into their figuring out what that product is what that services, whatever it is that they’re going to sell. That’s what you need to figure out first and foremost before you know getting into that other
David Ralph [15:01]
Let’s hear from Oprah. And we’ll be back with Christina,
Oprah Winfrey [15:03]
the way through the challenge is to get still and ask yourself, what is the next right move? not think about, Oh, I got all of this, what is the next right move, and then from that space, make the next right move, and the next right move, and not to be overwhelmed by it. Because you know, your life is bigger than that one moment, you know, you’re not defined by what somebody says, is a failure for you. Because failure is just there to point you in a different direction.
David Ralph [15:35]
So when you started it, and you started a new business? Were you a sort of quantum position away from the one before? Did you just look at everything that you hated about the one before? And then try to do totally different? Or did you think no, that bit worked? I’ll bring that with me. And that was pretty good. How did you transition?
Christina Lenkowski [15:58]
Definitely the ladder, it wasn’t the like, I’m gonna burn this all down. And you know, never think about this again, or anything. I know for a fact that my business now succeeds, because of what I learned from my first business. Without a doubt, I learned how to do things, what was actually important in regards to my customer, the customer experience, all that good stuff. So I did just like you said, I kind of said, I liked this, I liked this, maybe I’ll do this a little differently, XYZ, and I moved that all into the new business.
David Ralph [16:28]
Because I get bored with what I’m doing away from the podcasting. There’s many things that has occurred behind the scenes of Join Up Dots. And I think the majority of them I get to a point, I think, it’s, it’s really one I want to keep on doing. I know, it’s highly lucrative, but I’m a bit bored with this. And I think my, my transition occurred again, when sort of COVID hit, and I thought, why, okay, the world is changing, I need to look at what I’m doing. And sort of I moved again, now, as a business owner, but it’s gonna happen time and time again. So how do you bulletproof yourself from actually going? The excitement of building this business has worn off, and now it’s just a business? I’m a bit bored with it.
Christina Lenkowski [17:16]
Yeah, well, I love what you said, because I’m, I’m that way as well. So I recently took a Colby test. And I don’t know if you’ve ever done that particular test, but it talks about what your what kind of your instincts are, and like a work, excuse me, style environment. And I am an absolute quickstart. So it sounds like you and I might be similar in that, which means you get really excited about something, you start it, you get it going, and then your interest kind of drops off, you know, you’re you’re ready to move on to the next the next thing. And to your point, that’s not really how it can work in a successful business, you have to make sure that, you know, if you want to keep your business successful, and you want to keep doing the same type of thing, then you need to obviously be consistent with that. The way that I help with that, or the way that I work with that is a I have someone that works for me, that is kind of the opposite of that she’s much more like consistency driven. And that really helps because if I get all squirrely about something, you know, she can kind of whip my head back correct? and say, okay, yes, we could do that. But first, we need to finish XYZ. And
David Ralph [18:23]
just just jumping into there. That is the key thing. Because Yeah, what you’re saying there is you can’t forget the spine of your business. And I talked about that time and time again, if your spine but you put into the ground, starts to wobble your whole business force. And so we’ve made for example, mine is a podcast. And so everything else is subsequent to the podcast. So if I stopped doing the podcast, the business stops. So I have to say, that is my spine. That is my major commitment. And everything else came sort of fluctuate somehow, but you’ve got to know your spine.
Christina Lenkowski [19:02]
Yeah, absolutely. And I think for me, that’s my podcast pitch broker service, which is where I pitch my, our individual clients, and then things that I’ve done sprung then kind of spread out from that. And so I love that analogy of the spine. That’s, that’s fantastic. So, yes, I have, um, you know, I have someone that kind of keeps me grounded, keeps me, you know, in my place, if you will, but still moving forward. And then the other thing is just to remember that I want this business to be fun. I want this business to be something that I enjoy doing. So I make changes in my business, you know, calculated changes or add a product or takeaway a product or something like that, based on, you know, me wanting to enjoy what I’m doing. I don’t work full time. I’m also a mom. So making sure that with my limited amount of hours that I’m really using it to the best of my ability to create this business that I enjoy.
David Ralph [19:57]
Now let’s get back on to the pitching. No knows, because as I’ve been sitting here, I’ve just gone into my email inbox. Since we’ve started this, and we’ve been recording 20 minutes, I’ve had 10 new pitches is basically a tsunami that comes through to me on a daily basis. And luckily, I’ve got a guy, that source source, a lot of them. But one of the things I hate, and I really, really hate this is when somebody pitches to you, and then stay a follow up. And then the next day, they follow up, and here’s what I’m reading, I bet you’re busy, I just wanted to make sure that my previous email landed in your inbox, why the hell Wouldn’t it and you’re making me busier by reading another email that you’ve sent, that instantly gets a delete.
Christina Lenkowski [20:45]
Was this a day later from when you sent the original one.
David Ralph [20:48]
The first one came on April, the 28th, the second one April, the 29th. April, the 30th. And then the fourth of May. And then it keeps on going, going going. And we’re quite certain on the fact that you will get a response. But don’t chase us up.
Christina Lenkowski [21:06]
So I will tell you this, I will tell you this, most people don’t respond, I will most hosts, I shouldn’t say most, but a lot of times they don’t. So we do have to do follow up. That is absolutely something that happens as a part of the pitching game. I only follow up three times I follow up once a week later. And I follow up again two weeks after that. So that is the amount of times that I’m going to follow up in that third follow up, I will also send a new story idea as well or a new topic idea to see if that’s something that they might be more interested in. Out of the original ones that I pitched. But follow up. I mean, honestly, David, I’d say I book about half the shows for my clients based on the follow up.
David Ralph [21:46]
Wow. Okay, so I’m gonna let him often I think he’s a bit urgent, but I’m gonna let him off. Okay, yeah,
Christina Lenkowski [21:51]
I wouldn’t send that many. And I wouldn’t send them that close together. Personally, personally, that’s just how I feel. But you do have to do the follow up.
David Ralph [22:01]
The other thing that I hate is when is quiet, obviously, they’ve cut and paste, and they just post the podcast name in the space. I’ve had them come through to me when they’ve actually posted the wrong podcast. Or they’ve mentioned guests that I’ve had on the show, which meant that I always responds to those ones. And I respond personally and say thank you very much for this, but I think you’re speaking about the wrong podcast here. Once again, it’s due diligence, and that person’s just wasted that opportunity to get on the show or any one show.
Christina Lenkowski [22:39]
Absolutely. And I think what you just said is so important. The amount of copy and pasting that goes on in the pitch world is is pretty rough, you know, that’s something that a lot of people are in the mindset of like, Well, I have this amount of time to do pitching, I’m just gonna send out this many pitches I’m gonna do I’m very cookie cutter style, you know, XYZ, XYZ, XYZ, literally just putting in the, you know, the name of the show the name of the host. And that’s one thing that drives me absolutely insane as well. Because the reputation that podcast pitches them have is one that’s not good at all. So in my business, and in my company, you know, I would rather send 10, really well thought out pitches than 50 cookie cutter pitches any day of the week. And so that’s kind of the thing that we keep in mind. That’s the mantra that we have. And we have a much higher success rate. Because of that, when you’re sending out a bunch of cookie cutter pitches, you’re not going to get responses. But when you’re sending actual personalised pitches with, you know, story ideas that relate to their specific audience, and they can tell that you’ve done that research. You know, we have a much higher acceptance rate than than somebody that’s just sending out a bunch of cookie cutter ones.
David Ralph [23:51]
Now what I love this business because I think on one side of it is very easy to start. It’s very cost friendly, really. And you can drive traffic into your business quite simply, you know, I would go there’s a new website I discovered recently Never heard of it until about three weeks ago, called D seven lead finder, when you can go onto there and you can look at local businesses in a specific niche. And then write to them and say we’re looking to get you publicity. Why don’t you start guesting on post podcasts now? The getting the business getting the traffic is quite easy. I don’t think I’d like to be sitting there listening to podcasts because a lot of them are dreadful. They really are and I’m totally honest. I don’t listen to many podcasts because I can’t get past the audio, the lack of enthusiasm, the fact that your sounds like some other show I’ve just listened to how much of the show Do you guys actually listened to
Christina Lenkowski [24:58]
and I would say if I’m being totally honest, I’ve probably listened to 1520 minutes of the show maybe a couple different episodes before I send a pitch. So I want to get the vibe of the show, I want to know how they kind of do the intro. You know, before I go ahead and send that pitch. Um, so that’s something that I do. You know, to your point, though, if it’s not a show that’s enjoyable to listen to, it’s not a show that we’re going to pitch.
David Ralph [25:23]
Excuse your your point. Your point. But your guests, your, um, your client might like it, even though you don’t like it.
Christina Lenkowski [25:35]
Well, if my client specifically says they want to be on a show, then yes, I am going to pitch to that show. You know, if that’s something that they really want to be on, then yeah, I’m going to pitch them, I’m going to listen to it. And I’m going to pitch them appropriately and accordingly from that. But if it comes to me just doing my research, and it’s not a pitch that or sorry, not a show that I find particularly interesting, then yeah, and probably not going to be sending a pitch their way.
David Ralph [25:59]
So which podcasts Haven’t you found interesting recently?
Christina Lenkowski [26:04]
I’m definitely not saying that. Oh,
David Ralph [26:06]
Christina, I thought I was gonna lure you into that. But you’re too professional, you held firm on that? Exactly. Just give us the initials and we’re trying to work it out ourselves. You’re not gonna do it, or you’re not gonna do it? No, it’s not. Now, what about podcasts that stop now? A lot of podcasters. Now do 15 to 20 shows and they stop? So you pitch it say yes. But by the time your client comes along, the show is not there anymore. And I’ve heard this is quite an issue. Is it? Or is that something that you haven’t really encountered?
Christina Lenkowski [26:46]
It’s not something I’ve really encountered. When we pitch a show, they have to have at least 30 episodes. And they have to be consistent. So meaning that they’re posting at least twice a week or public twice a week, twice a month, publishing at least twice a month. And that it’s up to date, like it’s been recently they’ve been putting new new shows up. And like I said, we have a 30 minimum so that we know it is a show that’s going to continue to go. I have honestly because of the calibre of shows that we’re typically pitching, I have not had that happen. And I’ve, you know, worked with many clients, where show was just done. No, you know what that did happen once there was one show that that was done by the time they were ready to do the interview with our client. So that means that we just had to find another place for our client. I mean, it’s it’s a bummer. But it’s not something it’s not the end of the world.
David Ralph [27:36]
Now you’ve got on your website, as he was talking, I was going down your services. And it says get you booked on 12 quality podcasts. That’s right, we guarantee it, how what what’s your definition of a quality podcast?
Christina Lenkowski [27:52]
the right fit for that audience. So for the for the ideal customer that they’re looking for. And I do have some criteria. So like I said, they have to have the 30 show minimum and be consistently posting publishing new shows, we also want to make sure that there are people that are going to share the show, so they’re sharing it on their social, all that good stuff, because our clients are expected to do the same. So we want to make sure that their share friendly is kind of the term that we use. But ultimately, the reason we say high quality is just because they they are full of who their ideal customer is. I’m not just trying to get my clients on eight or 12, PopCap podcasts, depending on the package that they choose, like just for quantity. And I just want to make sure that there is the quality that they’re looking for there as well. And then that may mean that may not mean that it’s the biggest show in the world. But if it is full of their ideal customer, then that’s okay with me. The analogy that I always like to use is, you know, I’ve said to people before, like oh, and and to be fair, and this is something that your audience should know, we don’t know the amount of downloads that a show has. So as a as anyone in the public, we don’t know how many downloads that David gets, I don’t know how many downloads any of these hosts get, because that’s not public information. So people will ask me like, well, I only want to be on shows with a, you know, 1000 downloads or more 5000 downloads or more this or that, I don’t have that information. That’s not something that I can get access to. That’s why I focus way more on the quality of the audience. And I’ll tell you this, if a show has a quality audience, and they get 100 downloads, I’ve had people say to me, like I don’t know if that’s worth my time. If I could get in front of 100 of my ideal customers, you better believe I’ll be doing it. If that was an event that was somewhere I’d be booking that flight, I’d be booking that hotel room, you need to be thinking about the customer and not just the number.
David Ralph [29:47]
So how do you know who my customer is Christina?
Christina Lenkowski [29:52]
Well, if we if you were a client of mine, we do a deep dive of that in our first meeting.
David Ralph [29:57]
Right okay, so you don’t look at the podcast. Customer you look at what your clients customers are, and then being which podcast had got right. Okay, I’m with you. I’m with you. Now, one other questions before we move on to a different theme, again, interested me, but you got pitch to come on, not by yourself, it was by another company. Why is that?
Christina Lenkowski [30:21]
Well just the fact of the matter is I practice what I preach, and I need to be on podcasts. But I just wasn’t finding that I have the time, or the staff capacity to be doing it. So I use another agency that does a great job. And that I know does a really great job to pitch me on to shows because I just simply didn’t have the time to do it myself. But I know how important it is.
David Ralph [30:43]
And how much did you learn from them? But you thought, Yeah, that’s good. I’m going to Nick that and a bit in my own business.
Christina Lenkowski [30:51]
Oh, a nun. I have my own the way that I that I kind of do it is different than this other company. Um, and so yeah, that I don’t think anything was changed for my relationship with them. Right. Okay.
David Ralph [31:06]
Because I emailed me a list of the podcasts that you said that you didn’t like, which is really useful. Is it? Is it worth me to go? Go through him now.
Christina Lenkowski [31:16]
David Ralph [31:18]
Damn, Damn, she’s seen through me. Again, she’s seen for me again, let’s hear from Steve Jobs.
Steve Jobs [31:24]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very clear looking backwards. 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [31:59]
Now, when you look back and join up the dots, as he was saying, that doesn’t seem an obvious path, although it’s not when you’re doing it. But do you look at it now and go? Yeah, I can see I can see how it all sort of tied up.
Christina Lenkowski [32:14]
Yes, I absolutely love that, that quote, I really enjoyed hearing it right down again, because I haven’t heard it in a while. But I, I absolutely think that the dots join up, you know, when I was growing up, my mom was the director of this big nonprofit in Oregon, which is where I’m from. And she would say to me, I really think you’re going to be in PR one day. And I was like, Mom, you don’t even know me, like I’m a writer, like I’m just gonna write all over the world and data data, I went, got my degree in journalism and all this stuff. And after I travelled for a while after school, I came back home and I was lucky enough to be offered two jobs. And one was a newspaper as a copy editor. And one was for a big comics company in Portland, as a PR coordinator, and I ended up going with the PR coordinator, because it was a perfect mix of me wanting to be social, but also still being able to write and have that creative outlet. And that’s what kicked off my PR journey. And so my mom was absolutely right, she could see it, I couldn’t see it. But ever since then I’ve kind of been in this world. And it’s a really been a really, really amazing fit for me as I’ve gone through working for agencies, working for huge companies down to small companies. And then eventually after having my daughter going off on my own, and still continuing with PR and you know, just what that journey has brought me.
David Ralph [33:37]
Now, obviously did the theme of Join Up Dots is to say, Look, guys, you’re gonna have ups and downs, but you’ve got to start, you’ve got to start and you’ve got to move through it. Sometimes I I sit there myself and being Was it worth it. And then other times, I think, of course it was worth it. This is brilliant. This is amazing. I do have moments where I think I could have just worked for somebody and gone in and then at five o’clock just walked out and the tax was done for me. And I didn’t have to worry about this or that. So there’s a lot that goes on behind the scenes have an online business, which I think a lot of people try to hide. And I’m very transparent on the fact that I think I’ve percent juicy and 95% you don’t see. And that’s the most important. It’s the iceberg. They didn’t take you by surprise when you started your business that actually how much it costs, and how much you actually have to do and how much you have to be organised just to run something but from the outside just looks like a basic website.
Christina Lenkowski [34:43]
Oh, absolutely. I mean, it’s always a shock when I think about all that stuff. In fact, I just hired another staff member to take over my social media because, you know, it’s something that just takes up so much time and it’s time that I don’t have and that’s absolutely I think One of the most surprising things when you start a business is just how much all this stuff takes, like, how much time it takes how much staff costs? Yeah, all that stuff is, is definitely a very behind the scenes thing. But to your point, you know, I’ve thought about that before to where I’m, like, go work for someone like, why, why am I doing this to myself, you know, but then I’m also having the freedom to work my schedule exactly as I want it. Or if you know, I want to go do something with my friends or with my daughter or something like that, I don’t have to ask permission of anybody, I can just go do that. If I’m going to leave, you know, my grandfather turns 100 in a couple of weeks. And so we’re going to go see him on like, I’m just leaving on Wednesday, because I can, you know, so those are the type of things that I’m very, very grateful for. Very thankful for. But absolutely, people only see 5%, I think they also only see 5% when it comes to pitching. So that’s that’s the important thing to keep in mind, too, is, you know, people will kind of think that what I do might seem really simple from the outside, like, Oh, so you just send in some story ideas along with, you know, whatever, and try to get this host to say yes, I mean, yeah, but we put a lot of research into it. We’re making sure that it’s, you know, new and different story ideas that our client can talk about. There’s, you know, there’s a lot that goes into it, and a lot of time that goes into pitching. And when people finally realise that which they don’t typically until they try to do it themselves. That’s absolutely another situation where people only see the final product, which is someone being a guest on a podcast,
David Ralph [36:33]
people genuinely pay for the 15 years of stuff you’ve done beforehand, but no one’s seen. Don’t worry. You know, it’s, it’s the classic story about the plumber that comes in, and is bad doing a job for like two minutes. And he says that’s $100. And the guy says, $100, he was only here for two minutes. He said, Yeah, but it took me 20 years to learn how to do that in two minutes. And that’s the key thing with business. Now, I just want to jump back to something that you said that I stored in my podcasting brain, when you said, I got a staff member in to do social media, because I didn’t have the time. Now one of my things is, but everybody can find time to do the things that they want to do. But not but the stuff that they don’t want to do. So was that a case with social media that Yeah, you did actually at the time, but to be honest, it’s a bit of a drag, get somebody else to do it?
Christina Lenkowski [37:29]
Well, I mean, my thing is, I really enjoy doing the stories like on Instagram, I enjoy doing those things, I will do that do those throughout the day. But when it comes to like pre planning content, when it comes to getting everything all set and ready to post and stuff like that, it’s not something I really have the time to do. And it’s not something that I have that much of a desire to do. So I think it’s probably a mixture of both.
David Ralph [37:53]
Right, but it’s more of it. You don’t like doing it, and then you don’t find the time.
Christina Lenkowski [37:58]
I’ve done it for a lot of plants before in the past. So I don’t know, I guess I mean, truly, yeah, I don’t find the time because it’s not I should say this. It’s not a priority for Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that’s, I guess how I would look at it more so
David Ralph [38:15]
because I have certain things, but I, I never say I haven’t got time, because I always say to my kids and my wife, you know, we’ve all got exactly the same amount of time as Ilan Musk, and he’s a billionaire. You know, you can find the time to do the stuff. But certainly growing an online business. So is that part where you’ve developed it right from the very beginning. And you can just do things and it becomes your routine. So you forget really that you should be handing it off. Because your value to the business should go in a different direction. And I speak to a lot of people, even multimillionaires, and I say to them, why the hell are you doing that? Oh, it’s just because I’ve always done it. You know, they can’t see it, because it’s always par. Now, with your business growing? Are you already assessing where your true value is? So you can step away from the weeds?
Christina Lenkowski [39:09]
David Ralph [39:13]
So tell us about it. Tell us don’t don’t just keep us hanging.
Christina Lenkowski [39:18]
I know that the thing that really brings people into our business is truly my personality. And people just generally, when I speak or when I look, let me put it this way. My membership is called Hey, bitch, let’s pitch like that’s the style that I run my business. I like to have fun. I like it. You know, I like it to be joyful. But I also hold people’s feet to the fire. You know, my membership that I have is all about accountability. So making sure that they are actually sending the dang pitches and I will I will get after them for it. So I know that these are the things that drive people to my business. These are the things that keep our customers keep renewing happiness, do their, their work for them this and that is that I’m only hiring a certain level of quality employee. And we have a very certain quality that’s there. But I know that my creativity, my vision, my personality is what keeps people or draws people to us, I should say,
David Ralph [40:21]
my personality that drives people away from, I reckon, I reckon it’s my Achilles heel.
Christina Lenkowski [40:29]
That’s not to say that I’m perfect or anything like that. I don’t want it to come across like that. It’s just that, you know, I’m someone that enjoys what I do. And I think people see that energy and they kind of want to be around it.
David Ralph [40:42]
Well, this is the part of the show that we’ve built up to. And this is the part that we called a sermon on the mic when we send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the young Christina, what age would you speak to? And what advice would you give it? Well, we’re gonna find out because aren’t going to play the music. And when it fades, it’s your time to talk. This is the Sermon on the mic.
Unknown Speaker [41:13]
Unknown Speaker [41:19]
Christina Lenkowski [41:30]
First of all, that was the greatest Intro Music I’ve ever listened to. Um, but I would go back to probably 2324 year old Christina and I would say this, don’t be lazy. And what I mean by that is, Christina, you are a smart girl. But don’t just have your dreams be out in front of you and not work towards them. Take the time now start doing the actual work. Don’t just collect paychecks on you know, go forward, find what is really gonna light you up and work very hard towards it. Now,
David Ralph [42:06]
do you think she would listen?
Christina Lenkowski [42:09]
No, she’d be like, I’m gonna go get a drink. See?
David Ralph [42:13]
She’s I like her.
Christina Lenkowski [42:16]
She’s, uh, yeah, she’s. she’s a she’s a gal on the town. Yeah,
David Ralph [42:20]
I bet there’s nothing wrong with that when you’re young do that. Because suddenly you’ve got kids and you can’t do it. So. So Christina, don’t listen, don’t listen to your older self. Just go out there and party. Like it’s 1999. That’s a
Christina Lenkowski [42:37]
high school then. So I was at a party and then but yeah,
David Ralph [42:40]
that’s a reference for the kids party. Like it’s 1999 they’re gonna they’re gonna go wow, what are you talking about? Why so how can
Christina Lenkowski [42:48]
I love a good prints reference? Absolutely.
David Ralph [42:50]
How can people connect with you, Christina?
Christina Lenkowski [42:54]
Yeah, you can definitely come find me on my website at publicity by Christina comm backslash book. And that’s publicity x. Christina with a ch. Because I thought I was really clever when I started a company. And now it’s the bane of my existence, to have that dang eczema. But yeah, publicity x Pacino comm backslash book to have a free resource there to see if you’re ready to become a podcast guest as well as a few different ways that you can work with me.
David Ralph [43:22]
We will have over links on the show notes. And yes, I looked at that myself. And I thought that’s strange. That little x in the middle instead of publicity, Christina. But there you go. You’ll learn from these, you can always do a URL redirect calm. Yeah.
Christina Lenkowski [43:37]
Maybe I’d say that 36 year old Christina, I’d be like, hey, you’re starting this company, don’t put an X in the middle of your URL
David Ralph [43:43]
me and she will pay attention to that one. Christina, thank you so much for spending time with us today, joining up those dots. And please come back again, when you got more dots to join up. Because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our pasts is the best way to build our futures. Christina, thank you so much. Christina Lange koski. I hopefully you enjoyed that. And if you’re if you’re starting a business, be aware that there’s a lot to go behind the scenes that maybe you don’t know, but certainly a podcast pitching business, there’s enough podcasts out there to start a business pretty much on a shoestring. But you do have to do the work behind you do need to do your research. Because we do get so many pitches that come through. But you just know the person hasn’t really listened. But they’re not referencing the show. They’re just sending out bulk amount. But certainly, most of you could get a business up and running within a few days doing that. And it would be very valuable to you in a date. Until next time, my friends, thank you so much for being here are with us on Join Up Dots, the audience is going up and up and up. So if you’re a new listener to the show, drop us a line and I’ll send you a message back to thank you and if you’ve been here right from the early days, thank you As well until next time, I will see you again. Look out for yourself. Stay safe. Stay sexy. See ya. Bye bye.
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