Jim Brown Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast
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Introducing Jim Brown
He is a man with quite an usual journey to where he is today.
But as we see every-time on Join Up Dots, if you look close enough you can see how the dots join up everytime.
He has led two companies from $1 million to more than $10 million, and one from $1 million to $0.
And now trains entrepreneurs who don’t realize they’re the VP of Sales and also individual sales people how to 10 X their revenues in a step-by-step sales formula .
How The Dots Joined Up For Jim
But starting his career as a graphic design intern, he was a million miles away from the sales king he is today.
He did four four months only, before then joining Uncle Sam in the US Marine Corp where he provided visual information support, by way of photos, videos, and graphics, to enhance the combat readiness and training support needs of the Marines.
Who would have thought…eh??
And then he went through a series of roles quickly as he developed his skills, gained successes, learnt from his mistakes and made his way to where he is today.
As the owner of the Sandler Training DTB, a consulting and training firm dedicated to helping clients significantly improve the performance of their revenue engine.
And it looks like he is loving it!
So when did he realise that sales was the environment that truly made him come alive?
And why does so many people struggle with this part of the business, when in truth we are all in sales every day of our lives?
Well lets find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr Jim Brown.
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Jim Brown such as:
Why so many people in the world refuse to dream big enough in their lives, and how the bigger you can dream the more chance you have to succeed.
Jim shares how he grew up poor in Indiana, and why although he has never lost the awareness of the value of money he is so willing to take risks as he grows his own business.
Why even after starting seven businesses Jim shares how none of them have lasted more than three years, and why he is so happy that is the case.
Why you simply have to go back and listen to episode 82 of Join Up Dots, to hear the most amazing story you will ever experience
How To Connect With Jim Brown
Or if you prefer just pop over to our podcast archive for thousands of amazing episodes to choose from.
Full Transcription Of Jim Brown Interview
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK. David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:33]
Yes, have a good morning everybody. Good morning. If you are somebody who wants to feel inspired, want to feel motivated and want to go after the dream and not settle, then this is a show for you because we’re gonna deliver a master class of what the guy the guy he wants settle. You can just see that when you speak to him, he won’t settle. But if you if you’re not feeling inspired or motivated, then just go away. Just go away and find something else in iTunes land to listen to the Because this one is gonna blast you big because he’s a man with quite an unusual journey to where he is today. But as you see every time on Join Up Dots if you look close enough, you can see how the dots join up every time. He’s led to companies from 1 million to more than 10 million and then one from 1 million to zero, not good. And now joins entrepreneurs who don’t realise they’re the VP of sales and also individual salespeople how to 10 times their revenues in a step by step sales formula but starting his career as a graphic design intern. He was a million miles away from this sounds King ears today he did all mums only before then join Uncle Sam in the US Marine Corps, where he provided visual information support by way of photos, videos and graphics to enhance the combat readiness and training support needs of the Marines who would have thought and when he went through a series of roles quickly as he developed his skills, gained successes, learned from his mistakes and made his way to where he is today as the owner of the Sandler Training dtb a consulting and training firm, dedicated to helping client significantly improve the performance of their revenue engine. And it looks like he is loving it. So when did he realise that sales was the environment that truly made him come alive? And why does so many people struggle with his part of the business? When in truth, we’re all in sales every day of our lives? Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show, to stop Join Up Dots with the one and only Mr. Jim Brown. Good morning to you, Jim. How are you sir?
Jim Brown [2:27]
No, I’m fantastic. David, I think that I might have to start paying you to do my intro for everything because that was pretty fantastic. I appreciate it.
David Ralph [2:34]
You have a hard guy to find stuff about because I like I like the dirty stuff. I like the down and dirty stuff that the guest doesn’t realise that they’ve said and that there wasn’t a lot out there for you but
Jim Brown [2:46]
you didn’t get you didn’t find any of my former pro wrestling photos or anything like that then didja
David Ralph [2:52]
now and I didn’t see that once with the two ladies in the house station. I bet I didn’t see any of those. But what I did find out which interests me so I’m gonna go straight to it was you was a graphic designer for the US Marine Corps? Is that is that the the most gentle part of the US Marine Corps you can possibly have. I can’t even imagine that I need training support. Tell me about that.
Jim Brown [3:14]
Well, there is the band as well. So they might be a little bit more gentle than I was. But no, I mean, no one realises that the Marine Corps has graphic artists, but they did I mean, any any civilian job that you have, I mean, you think about it, the Marine Corps needs that same support. So everything from cooks, to supply clerks to like I said, the band, public affairs officers, and even visual information, which I did with graphic design and photos and that kind of stuff. So it was a wonderful way to serve my country, while also preparing myself for a career that would lead me to where I am today.
David Ralph [3:45]
And when you was doing your marching going in my life as nothing find out I want to be a graphic designer. Did you think yourself actually I could have gone for something a bit bit more hard and ready than this?
Jim Brown [3:58]
Well, look, so that the difference Between the Marine Corps and every other branch of service, at least in the United States, every marine is first an infantryman, they’re a rifleman. And so we still didn’t have to do all the stuff that, you know, your your grunt Marines had to do. I spent quite a bit of time in the field. I’m an expert marksman, I can put a shot, you know, centre mass from 500 yards away with iron sights. So I still know how to do the fighting portion of being a marine. But no, it’s it was something that I truly enjoyed getting to support the in the I serve from 2000 2004, which was during Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom. And, you know, we’re not gonna get into the politics of the war, but being able to serve during wartime and surely support my country in my unit was was very powerful for me.
David Ralph [4:42]
You can’t tell me what we’re going to get into or not, sir. I’m the host of the show. I’ll take the content where I want it to go to
Unknown Speaker [4:50]
fair enough. Fair enough.
David Ralph [4:51]
But yeah, but yeah, I’m not gonna go there. There’s too much politics in the world anyway. But what did that give you because I’ve spoken to so many people about were in the military and I say it is one of the best groundings for entrepreneurial work because it gives you systems it gives you a work ethic. Did you find the same that the actual kind of decor, essence training you’re still using today?
Jim Brown [5:16]
Oh, no question. So look, I joined the military, because I grew up poor, very poor. And and, you know, I’m very fortunate that growing up poor in Indiana in the United States is definitely different than growing up poor, maybe in other parts of the world. So I that’s not lost on me. But, you know, I so I wanted to go to Ball State University, which is an Indiana State School, here in the states that they’re known for the visual communications programme. So I applied I was accepted. And I will never forget the day in February of 2000. When my dad said, Son, I love you, but I have no clue how you planned on paying for that. And because we’d like said we didn’t have any money and at that time because of my surroundings. I didn’t understand the concept of student loans or grants or scholarship. Like it is just was lost on me. And he said, James, I think you need to join the Air Force. And you know, the man who I was supposed to look up to in life, just crushed my dreams. And it was kind of like a big few, honestly. And I was like, well, since you’re not gonna let me do what I want to do, I’m definitely not gonna listen to you. So definitely not joining the Air Force. And honestly, I don’t want to be like you. And he had served in both the Army and the Navy. And I just I couldn’t imagine myself on a boat anyway. But But anyway, so I just couldn’t imagine doing anything that he wanted me to do. The only thing that was left was this thing called the Marine Corps. And when I went to see the recruiter, I looked at that beautiful dress blue uniform, which is one of the best uniforms of all the military and and signed up. Did you
David Ralph [6:44]
think back that generation or advice that so many people had where their parents would say, we think you should do this? It worked for us? It was all right for Uncle Jim. He did but maybe not in our generation because we’ve still got those ties but maybe Be as our kids are growing up, do you think they’re going to be words that people won’t hear anymore? Because we’ve got so many more opportunities. We’ve got so many ways of creating businesses, incomes and living a life that’s full of dreams, aspiration, and also some monetary value as well.
Jim Brown [7:17]
You know, I want to say, I hope so. But the reality is, I talk to and have so many different conversations with people throughout the world that most people don’t think like you and I or think about what you just said, and they only can look internally and look at what has made them them and as well, that’s what I be very clear. So I have a brother in law, who is a union electrician. He has a son who’s eight years old, and he has already told me his son will be nothing in life, that he’s going to follow the path of being an electrical or like electricians journeymen and work his way into the union. And I pull out my hair every time I hear that because Like, they’re to your point, there’s so much opportunity. There’s so many different things that he can do so many different ways he can find success and make money, that how on earth as an eight year old, are you already defining his future? So I want you to be right. And I hope that those things aren’t said, but I just, I’m still seeing them quite a bit. Did you?
David Ralph [8:20]
Do you want to wrap him up in his little eight year old body and sort of because I do when you said that I felt like going, I’m gonna try and get him at the end of the street and say, Don’t listen to your dad. You can do anything you want. You just have to dream big and go through it. And actually, if you dream big, little eight year old, there’s less competition and you’ve got more chance of succeeding anyway.
Jim Brown [8:40]
I’m sitting here shaking my head so bad. Yes, you’re absolutely right. So many people fail to think big and you said it best. There is so much opportunity at the top because people don’t aspire for it. They don’t think that they can achieve that. And so those who actually take a risk and do they’re the ones who get those great paying jobs or start the great business Right, they, they don’t have fear. And it’s just it’s just an amazing place to be in. And you know, look, I’ve, I’ve worked on my mental capacity a lot with several different people and, and I’m blessed and I know I’m fortunate to be able to have the opportunity to think the way that I do. But my goodness, it’s just so freeing.
David Ralph [9:19]
But people that struggle with thinking big go back to Episode 82 of Join Up Dots is a guy called Eric James. It’s only about 35 minute episode is one of our early ones, and listen to the story at the end. And honestly, it’s still a story but I will tell everyone if anyone says to me which episode of Join Up Dots should I listen to? I quite often say go and listen to Episode 82 because this guy literally put himself in a two way shoot to become a photographer in space just by believing that there was less competition by going for it absolutely astonishing. Now with you, sir, Mr. Brown, you are somebody who is running your sales team and doing everything Well, it’s going really well for you. And you’re also sort of expanding into my territory, you are putting effort into the podcasting world. Why have you done that? Why have you decided that podcasting can bring something to your business that maybe it’s lacking?
Jim Brown [10:15]
Well, first of all, I think that everyone should always have a side hustle. And I mean that as I’m saying, I have my own business, but yet I still have a side hustle. And so, you know, I’ve been an entrepreneur, gosh, I, I could go back and talk about the the NCAA Tournament pools that I was running when I was in seventh grade. And that was just a way for me to make money. But I’ve been an entrepreneur for a long time, but even as I’ve had the company in front of me that I’m working on that I’m building, I still got a side hustle going on. And so you know, it makes sense that I’m still doing that today. So yes, by day, I run a sales training and sales coaching organisation. I have some amazing clients in the tech space that I work with, but on the side I do what’s called sales tuners, and it’s my podcast where I have a weekly interview with a great sales leader or Very high performing individual sales rep about the behaviours, attitudes and techniques that have led to their success. And the whole reason I did this, it was not meant to truly influence my day business is that it was a cool new idea. And I said to myself, you know, I, these are conversations that I’m wanting to have, and I do have on a regular basis, wouldn’t it be awesome to record these and share them with other people? Because I’m asking questions that that I truly benefit from. So look, it’s a very selfish thing. They’re, again, they’re conversations I want to have and now I get to have them, but I’m recording them as well. And I will tell you, David, like it’s opening up doors that I never ever expected them to open. So I run through, you know, our interview and it’s a it’s a, it’s a interview style conversation, just like you and I are having, and I get to pull out and learn from these people who have achieved great success in the field that I’m in and I just get to ask them about it. Right and I try to cut through all the BS high level garbage and say no, what are the actual things You’ve done to lead to your success and they share those with me. But then as we get through all of that, you know, they I asked them the question, once we’re off the air, I say, Okay, now that you’ve been through this, I’m always person likes feedback, what are some of the things that you might have asked yourself if you were interviewing yourself and but more importantly, not more important, but additionally, who are one or two people that you think just have an amazing story that you think would make great guests on the show, and they start opening doors for me to people and boardrooms that I should probably not be finding myself into. And I get introduced at the highest level from a respected peer. And now it’s just like, I’m chatting with old buddies. And it’s just simply incredible. Now I’m getting invited to come to conferences as part of the quote unquote media, which I never thought I’d be a part of. I’m getting invited to come to conferences and speak and lead panels and run this and that and it’s just it’s, it’s something that I just totally didn’t expect at all.
Unknown Speaker [12:53]
David Ralph [12:54]
is something that you don’t expect, but when you look at it now, do you go Got it? Yeah, it’s obvious. I can see it now. I can see Because that’s the thing with opportunities, isn’t it? It’s only once you start taking the action, you can actually see the huge benefits that come your way.
Jim Brown [13:07]
It’s 100% true. And I tell pretty much everyone that I meet, and that if they have any goals whatsoever, I tell them to start creating content and just hit Publish. Most people are afraid to hit Publish. And because of that, those who take the risk and hit publish, all of a sudden these opportunities and doors start opening up for them. And it’s, it’s fun to see.
David Ralph [13:30]
It’s a sexy world we live in Jim, isn’t it when we can speak into a microphone, have conversations across the world and and develop ourselves as well? I agree totally with what you’re saying. I will tell everyone I’ve never had a business coach in my life. I bet over 700 of them. And now in all these conversations every single time somebody says something, and I think oh yeah, yeah, that’s a good idea, and I sort of jot it down secretly. I’d be skint if I was paying for this with the kind of calibre of chaps and lasses, I get on the show. It’s brilliant. So with your life, did you instantly go from sort of military into a business that flourish because I was going through your resume. I was going through LinkedIn stalking you virtually. And you whizzed through the jobs there. There was there was not much career path. At the beginning. It seemed to be a year, year year you were flying through them. Was it a master plan? Or were you just I’m sure of what you wanted to do with life.
Jim Brown [14:28]
You know, what I? So I’m actually glad that you picked that up, right. And so I, the longest tenured job, if you will, that I’ve had was for years. And that’s because I signed a four year contract with the world’s finest United States Marine Corps, and I was kind of obligated to serve that. But even after that, of all the businesses that I’ve started, I’ve started seven businesses. None of them have lasted more than than three years, none of them. And to me, it’s it’s not that I didn’t know what I wanted to do, because I actually I’m one of those people that from since I was in fourth grade, I’ve kind of had an idea of exactly what I want to do. And so I didn’t know the path or the way. But I’ve tried to be very intentional about the next step. And so for me, all of those job changes or career changes, if you will, they were just the next steps. So I had maxed out something inside of me that I couldn’t get over the next hurdle and the next plateau. So I just kind of looked around and I said, Okay, what’s next? A buddy of mine, shared with me the idea of when you start climbing a mountain, it’s the idea of a fall summit. You look up and you think, Oh my gosh, I see it. I’m almost at the end. And you get up there and you summit and you look around, you’re like, hmm, there’s another one. Now I gotta go climb that one. But it’s as soon as you get to that first fall summit, you look around, you’re thinking okay, there’s now that I’m here, I have a new normal. Well, there’s all these other opportunities which which way do I go now? What do I want to climb next? How do I want to do this? And for me, that’s what my career has been. And so you know, I’m in this sales training world sales coaching world. Now, I would be shocked if I if I do this longer than three or four years.
David Ralph [16:04]
I find with that summit analogy more often than not when I’ve got to the summit and I’m looking around, I’ve realised I’ve dropped my car keys halfway down the mountain, and, and have to sort of backtrack, he never seems to be the right mountain that I’ve ended up with. You know, I’ve never got to the top and gone. This has been it’s always Oh god. If only I’d done that, If only I’d done that and sort of backtrack, but it is a murdering path. And it’s just doable, isn’t it? It is totally doable, Jim. So why do you think so many people who listen to these podcasts, read self development books never actually get going?
Jim Brown [16:38]
Oh, Alex, they don’t take the action, literally. So that you introduced my company earlier as Sandler Training dtb the dtb stands for do the behaviour. I work with sales reps every single day who have all these great goals, aspirations, dreams, desires, but they’re not willing to actually do the thing, the incremental step today is going to lead them there. Right. So one of the things that I put together, it’s a free resource. I’m happy to share it later. But I’ve put together a workbook, right? That literally says, Okay, if you want to make a million dollars in sales or you know, $250,000 in quota, or I’m sorry, in commission next year, right, because those are things that a lot of my clients have. How do you do that? It cannot just be a big number that says, okay, by December 31 of this year, I need to hit that. Well, that’s great. It’s very hard to go from zero to 1 million. So what are all those steps in between? And so this workbook that I put together just kind of helps people break that down into the daily, weekly monthly steps that they need to take in order to hit that goal. But getting back to your the question you asked, most people will not do the behaviour. They just don’t, they won’t take the action.
David Ralph [17:51]
I was in training for years. That was my thing. I used to go around companies and they would hire me and I would go and do training courses on insurance. banking and, and customer service skills and all these kind of stuff. And I would say the smallest part of my little finger would be people that actually when I went back six weeks later, we’re actually doing anything that I spoke to, you’d get in the room, you would give them the notes, you would train them up, they would be motivated, you would then follow up two days later, five days later, yeah, we’re into this, this is gonna change our life. Is it gonna be brilliant? You go back six weeks later, they weren’t doing any of it. complete waste of time. I think 99.9% of training is totally wasted when the individual who is having the training hasn’t requested it themselves. It seems to be a tick box culture. Do you find that?
Jim Brown [18:42]
No, no question. But I think you can say about anything even like so college education, right. So when when your parents pay for your college education or when you get the scholarships or things like that, you’re not working for it. You didn’t actually want to do it. It’s a societal expectation of you. And you’re just taking the next step. But that comes down to everything. So yeah, it’s the, the receiver of the content has to be ready to be led, or else it doesn’t matter. So I talked about this, this concept of having context to the content, right? So I read a tonne, I read, you know, probably 40 books a year or more. And I’ve read books two or three times where the first time I read them, I’ll give you a great example, the last company that I ran into the ground, I raised a million dollars in venture capital, and I completely bankrupted it. Still very painful. But I read a book called the Lean Startup by Eric Reese several years ago, and I dismissed it. I simply said, if this guy knew how to actually run a company, he doesn’t need to do this lean startup, you know, whatever crap, he would just know the right next steps to take right I had, I truly had no context to the content that he was writing. Now, I reread that book in July of 2015 when I’m staring Down the the chamber have two months left of runway with this this venture capital company that I had started. And I reread that book and I’m just sitting there cussing myself out the entire time saying, of course, I should have done this. Why didn’t I think about that? Of course he’s right, right. But my context had completely changed. The content didn’t change. But my context, what I understood about what I was reading had completely changed. And I think that that’s so powerful, right? So but when you go back to this training concept, unless you have the context, to the content that you’re receiving, you’re going to dismiss it, you’re not going to take any action on it.
David Ralph [20:38]
Now, I agree with that. I agree with that so much as i agree with these words, as well. Jim Carrey.
Jim Carrey [20:43]
My father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.
David Ralph [21:10]
Now, let’s get out your eight year old nephew. That is what he needs to hear, isn’t it?
Jim Brown [21:14]
Oh, for sure. For sure. Absolutely. Hundred percent. It’s, it’s amazing to me. So I mentioned earlier that I grew up poor. And for me, it doesn’t matter if I fail. I’ve been at the bottom. I know what’s there and I’m not afraid of it. I’m not scared of it. So I go out and I take risks and my you know, my wife will attest to this. I take a lot of risk, maybe too many. But it’s okay for me because I know that that swing for the fence can provide an amazing future for us and an amazing present but an amazing future for us. But if I swing and miss, it’s okay, like because I want I’m not going to fall off the entire mountain range right I can only fall off of the single mountain but not going to fall off. The entire amount. But even if we did, even if I went all the way back to where I started, I’ve been there. And I’ve survived it, and it’s fine. So yes, take risks actually try something because you never know what’s going to be successful.
David Ralph [22:13]
I’m going to ask your question, Jim, and I’m gonna have to put extra subtext on this because maybe you will, your cut this interview off sharp. But when you’re in bed, first thing in the morning and you open your eyes. What gets you excited? What gets you excited in bed, sir? Because I think but I was talking to a guy the other day, and he is part of my coaching group. And he’s going through a series of training videos that we do, and it come to the fore, but he was kind of thinking too big. He was thinking about practicalities, more than actual excitement value. And the body’s compass is great when you actually are looking forward to this. You know, I’ve done what nearly 100 shows now Join Up Dots. I still love it. I absolutely love it. And some days I’m flying some days. I’m not actually Flying, I still wake up thinking, yeah, this is what I want to do and 5000 shows and 10,000 shows. So when you’re in bed in the morning, and you look at your alarm clock, why she gets you excited?
Jim Brown [23:10]
Besides my wife, right? Because I have to say that first, right,
David Ralph [23:13]
and other people’s wives and whatever is going on in your life. You can add them all in.
Jim Brown [23:17]
Of course, of course now, you know, it’s funny. I do I still have big dreams and big goals. And and I get in ruts. I want to be clear of that, right? Everybody, you know, they hear shows like this, or they they read that motivational book. And they think, gosh, you know, these guys have it all figured out every single day is peachy keen is not I go through ruts as well. But I have things that I’m living for. Right. I have things that I’m trying to achieve. And I know that the things that I do today are going to pay off one month from now, three months from now, a year from now. Right. And there’s some very big things that we’re working on right now. Both my wife and I, and I’ve got a three year old little boy that I will not provide everything that he needs. I know that because I’m doing it intentionally because if he doesn’t faced adversity, he won’t actually try for things. But he, they, my family and the things we’re working on are the true reason why I get up every day excited to go attack the day. And My day starts early, I get up between five and 530 every single day. And the first thing I do is journal and I write about what I’m grateful for. Because that just grounds me right because you are no matter even if you had a horrible day, there’s still so many things to be grateful for. So I journal that and then I journal what I expect the day to how I switch it to unfold what I need for the day to happen. And that just kind of sets my mo my mood and my mind to go attack the first thing that I need to accomplish that day.
David Ralph [24:39]
I think that’s brilliant. So you actually are sort of every day you visualising basically, you’re setting out a visual document of what you’re going to go and do.
Jim Brown [24:49]
I do and then I recap it at the end of the night. So I also journal right before I go to bed, and I just talked about whether or not my vision for the day met reality and what I could have done to make it better. And kind of what I learned that day,
David Ralph [25:02]
and then do when you because when you’ve got a dream, a big dream, you can really go wild and let it sort of float off into fantasy world. And as we said earlier, that’s a great way of doing it. And that’s why some people achieve remarkable things that other people just can’t imagine. But when you’re documenting like that, does it become big dream time? Or is it just tiny little things? Do you document, I must clear my email inbox out, I must do this, or does it go into the fantasy world?
Jim Brown [25:32]
It’s a little bit of both. And I’ll be very clear, sometimes it is I need to clear my inbox out because I’m the type of person that I do kind of keep my head in the clouds of a lot. And my email will start to pack up and while email is not necessarily work, it is how there’s things in that email inboxes of how I get paid how I make money, and I do need to address those. And so sometimes it is, it’s like okay, you know, Jim, you you’ve spent enough time up here in La La Land. Let’s come back to One of the things we need to get accomplished today is actually get close to inbox zero. So that definitely is one of the things that we do. But no, I read a quote, and I want to say it was Bill Gates, but I could be wrong. He said, most people overestimate the things they can get done in one year. But underestimate what they can get done in 10. And that is so powerful to me because it’s twofold. With my journal. Yes, I got my head in the clouds. Yes, I’m putting the vision in the in play for what I want to get accomplished today. But those recaps at night, when I can you start to go back a month and three months in six months and reread the things. I’m like, Oh, my gosh, there’s the dots. Right? And then talking about the show that we’re on today. There’s the dots. Here’s how this happened. And it would not have happened if I didn’t take those small, incremental steps every single day.
David Ralph [26:48]
So if we went back to, I suppose, is it your biggest failure? Biggest learning I imagine is learning when you raise the $1 million and you lost it and you said it was very, very painful. Have you learned from that more than probably all your successes? Is that going to be the one that drives you forward because of it or despite of it?
Jim Brown [27:09]
Well, so it is still painful. And honestly, just even as you kind of describe it there, I’m not gonna lie, I got a little bit teary eyed, just because I do still feel the pain of that, right. So I raised over a million dollars from two institutional investors and 14 individual angels. And in the institutions, right, it’s just that it’s institutional money. It’s kind of a faceless check, if you will. And I and I hate saying that out loud, but it’s just reality. But the 14 individuals that I can sit here and name I won’t, but I could sit here and name them that I had to sit down at lunch or coffee or you know, at their house and say to them, you know, your your money’s gone, and it’s not coming back. Thank you for believing me. Thank you for the opportunity. And I’m sorry. It was very painful. Of course, I learned about lot from that, but it truly shook me to my core. I mean, it caused me and my wife both to do a lot of thinking about what’s next. What do we want to do now, when we grow up because, you know, I kind of felt and I got a little bit of an ego prior to that everything I touched seemed to turn to gold. It just it just became successful. And this was a big just punch in the mouth. And it will definitely be a cornerstone in my career, no doubt.
David Ralph [28:30]
And it’s something because I’m not saying how you should operate but in my head, I would always be thinking somehow I’m going to pay them back. Somehow. I’m going to walk to their door and go, here’s your check. You may not have the interest on it or I will add something but I will get it back to you somehow.
Jim Brown [28:47]
Yeah. Yes, that that is going to happen for 100%. It’s something that I’ve journaled about. It’s something that I’m writing about. It’s something I’m putting plans in place to do. Yes, that money we pay back all of it every single penny
David Ralph [28:59]
because Money doesn’t really exist as such does it? You know, I know we have it in our bank account, but money is just kind of, I think paper choices. The more money you’ve got, the more choices now I could have billions and billions in a bank account. And if I’m not actually doing anything with it, what’s the point in having the money? And so these people, they, they took a choice and they went for it, and it didn’t pan out. It will pan out later. I’m sure it will. But it’s still only monetary choices, isn’t it?
Jim Brown [29:28]
Money is an illusion. And I have said that for years and a lot of people will fight with you on that but it is money is an illusion. I when I learned how to create money that’s when I realised I needed this this career in sales and a career as an entrepreneur because you can create money and I’m not talking about illegally printing money on a home printer right but the the sheer concept of creating money. So look, I started a podcast as well. And before I launched the single episode, I got nearly eight Five three, well, it was a five figure check. As my first sponsor for that show, I created money from nothing. Right? And then now all of a sudden, as I start doing that, I’m looking at other opportunities, like, Hmm, I wonder if I could do this. And I just make a pitch and I asked a question and all of a sudden, here’s another five figure check. And it’s just like, this doesn’t really make sense. Why is this happening and why aren’t other people doing it? And so look, if you’re going to work every day and and you know, you’re making $45,000 a year you know, good on you, because that’s, that’s a very good living want to be clear of that. But there’s just so much more out there. Like I can make $45,000 in a month, no problem by just creating opportunity. And that’s one of the things that when you have that mindset, it changes everything. It truly changes everything. With this sponsorship, because
David Ralph [30:51]
I actually haven’t got sponsorship on my show. I keep getting asked for sponsors. And there’s I don’t know there’s a weird integrity in my head. I don’t know Like, you know, the podcasts when you listen to him, you got to sit there for seven minutes getting through about six or seven plumbing adverts before you get to anything. I like the kind of straight into it. Now is it as simple as saying, as long as your content matches up with the avatar, then people are interested in it. Because what you said to me there might not mean much to other people. But the fact that you’ve got almost a brand new show, and somebody is willing to give you a five figure check means to me that you have created value, which the majority of podcasters can’t see in their own show.
Jim Brown [31:34]
Yeah, yes. Right. So it’s about finding and creating that opportunity. And so my show is very specifically for salespeople, right and and, you know, I talked about Junior salespeople, salespeople who want to be the next great sales leader, but it’s also for entrepreneurs who don’t realise they are the VP of sales. It’s such a struggle, but it’s very true. And so I there are there are tools, software tools that are us personally in my daily life, that I already am recommending to all the people that I work with. And so I just go to that company and say, Hey, I, you know, I’m basically building an audience of people who are the exact type that are going to buy your product, not saying any of them are going to buy it, but what you want to put some money behind, you know, sponsoring this. And, you know, we’re getting into, you know, tactics, which I’m happy to do, but I’m not doing the CPM model, you know, the cost per thousand. That’s stupid, because I don’t have thousands of listeners, right? I’m like saying, hey, there’s value here. I know how much your product cost if one person in the next year buys your product, because they heard about you on my show. You’ve five x, the return that you gave me to sponsor the show. And that’s where the power comes from. And so now, like I said, I’m basically trying to figure out how to create other products. That’s the same thing. Now how can I get more people into this? To do it, but that that’s how I’m doing. I’m creating value for them.
David Ralph [32:58]
Because I do actually know podcasts. Who before I’ve even launched this show? I’ve got six bigger sponsorship on there, you know, not one listener has come through because people ultimately like to get their name out and in New Media is a great way of doing it. Anybody out there at the moment who’s thinking about we’re talking about something very easy? No, we’re not because there’s a lot of work behind it. But it does show you what Jim is saying. But you need to break free from the old dollar for an hour model, because now you can do multiple dollars for scalable hours, which is just blows your mind. But there is effort at the beginning, Jim, isn’t it to get it going?
Jim Brown [33:38]
There’s so much effort, I will tell you when I was launching the podcast, you know, I was telling you before the show, my wife and I travelled pretty extensively we enjoy it. I’ve tried my hardest to create a life that allows me to be anywhere in the world and still work. And so we were in, in Spain, Valencia, Spain, and when I was truly launching the podcast, and I thought okay, it’ll be few more hours of just buttoning up the last little bits of pieces to get the first five episodes launched. And I remember I spent an entire day doing all this stuff that I thought I could finish up in just a couple of hours. And you know, wife wasn’t too happy with me. But no, and that was the culmination of months worth of work. But no, not easy, right? But doable. If you just start taking the individual steps.
David Ralph [34:22]
If I can do it, people out there, if I can do it, then anyone can because I am the most untaek II person really, I really, I talk about this a lot. But you know, I don’t have a phone. I don’t have tablets. I don’t have anything. I just know what I need to know now. And that’s it. And people will come through to me and go, Oh, why don’t you do it this way? Why don’t you do it that way? And I was saying, well, what’s the point? What’s the point it works perfectly all right, the way that I do it, because my whole life. I’ve created it, but I turned it off. So I basically do two days a month now on Join Up Dots. And that’s it. And I will do it all in those two days and the rest of it. I don’t have clients as such as you can floating around. And that’s, I never thought that was possible. Jim, when I used to have to be at my desk by eight and leave at five and get the train by quarter past five to be there, I always had that. That desire to break free from that conformity, that restriction, but I never really thought it was possible. When once I got it, I actually I’m going to talk about it because it interests me. Once I got that freedom. I thought it was utopia for about six months, and then I suddenly found myself getting bored, I suddenly realised but freedom is not as interesting to me as it was. If you lose structure somehow in your life, people need to get up at certain time people need to do things. Do you find that in your own life? Do you kind of build structures in because you actually need them even though you could just float around the world? Doing it whenever you want, wherever you want.
Jim Brown [35:53]
Of course, that’s just personal discipline. And going back to the one of the questions you asked me earlier, you know, what did the military in the Marine Corps Teach me it was that personal discipline. So yeah, again, I get up today between five and 530 because it’s that structure that I want to do. I get more accomplished before 8am than most people do, you know, in their entire day, and that’s intentional. But here’s the thing when I had my son, you know, three and a half years ago now, he changed my world in some of the best ways possible. And I had done the concept of time blocking for a long time, but my time blocks got really more rigid when I had my son because now I’m ending my day at 530 no questions asked, I’m ending my day because I want to spend time with my son. I want to see him grow up I want to hang out with him. I want to play with him at the park and with his monster trucks cuz that’s what he’s into now. Right? Because that time is so fleeting. And so it is on my calendar and this may sound crazy but it’s on my calendar 530 to 730 play with Nolan every single day on my calendar on Saturday from he wakes up at 8am for Am to 1:30pm which is when he takes his nap it is it literally says Nolan time. It’s blocked off on my calendar Now does that mean I have to do it every single day? No, of course not. I can still put something else on my calendar in place of that. But when now when I look at my calendar I look and say okay, is this worth taking that time away from my son and that it better be a really good reason to to take that time away from him if I’m going to do it but but it allows me to do it. So yeah, that structure and that discipline personal discipline is a really good thing. But it’s it’s the freedom to create your own structure that I think is the value that something that I’ve like I said try to be very intentional about creating
David Ralph [37:43]
you wait to note as a teenager and you say it’s Nolan time now it’s alright dad now so why? Yeah, I’m good. I thought I thought needed today. We did it last week. We went out for a family meal last night and it was a it was a treat for me. My wife said I’m gonna treat you you’ve been working very hard and I said, brilliant. And she said, we’re gonna have a family meal. And I always have to say who’s the family because you would expect that the family would all turn up. But they’ve all what we happen to eat. And so you have to go, Well, it doesn’t matter. We’re having a family we go out together, we’ll be together. That’s what it’s all about. Oh, okay, can I just have some chips? Can I have some fries? instead? I’m all right at home out for God’s sake come out. And things just change. Things just change. They don’t want you in the same way. Jim, I just want to set your stall out. But Nolan is gonna he’s gonna be laying in his bedroom with his Xbox in his underpants is got his girlfriend on the Skype he’s got the other girlfriend on the other Skype. The one lever though? What How are you gonna feel like Ben?
Jim Brown [38:44]
But I know you’re right. That’s the thing is I know you’re right. And that’s why I have to take advantage of this time now that he’s there. You know, look, my dad did the best he could to raise me and again, this this idea of connecting the dots. I did not like my dad growing up right. I And I’m sure other people out there listening, feel and felt the same way, right? But it wasn’t till I was about 1920 years old 21 you know, I start to look back. Like, I now remembering these lessons that my dad taught me and I now understand right context to content, I now understand what he was trying to say to me. And so my goal is just to be there, you know, for my son and, and as long as they’ll have me be able to show him the way and give them the opportunities that they you know, that I maybe wasn’t afforded.
David Ralph [39:32]
So just before we listen to the words that were made famous by Steve Jobs, your your 10 times their revenues in a step by step sales formula, how, how difficult is that for somebody to come along who doesn’t know anything about sales? Does that make them more able to learn that process because I used to find in training, if somebody didn’t have any idea, they were quite easy to train. If somebody had already been in the process, it was quite difficult to deconstruct them so that they would just be willing to go along with your process?
Jim Brown [40:03]
Well, yes, you definitely have to be willing to go along, right. But most people, right, we talked about it, you know, it seems fully here. They’re just not willing to do the behaviour right every single day. So the things that I work them through is to break down that big number. Okay, we want to 10 exit Well, what does that mean? How are we even going to possibly start to get there? And we just break down these little incremental steps that if they do this, it’s going to lead to that and if they do that, it’s going to lead to this bigger thing and step by step. We’re going to get to where you ultimately want to go. But I it’s my personal opinion that salespeople salespeople are not born, they’re made, they’re trained. You don’t have to be this you know, extrovert that just loves talking to everybody and all that kind of stuff that that’s the slicked back hair used car salesman that no one likes, right. I believe the best people to do sales is the subject matter experts for whatever It is that they do I use my wife and as example, she does like enterprise level Salesforce software implementations for like large financial institutions. She is amazing at that. But it just so happens because she’s so good at doing the implementation. All the salespeople on her force come and say, Hey, Kathy, can you can you join us on this sales call? So you can like whiteboard and diagram. And she comes in and starts asking the actual question that needs to be asked in order to lead someone to a big seven figure deal that that needs to be get completed. And I tell her every single day I said, Honey, why don’t you become a salesperson, she’s like, well, I don’t want to cold call. I don’t want. I’m BS. It’s not about all of that. Like, you could take two or three deals a year and make significantly more money. But for her, that’s just not. That’s not her driving her passion. But when I talk about taxing your revenue, you have to be willing to put in the work. It is not easy. The steps are simple, but the work is not easy.
David Ralph [41:57]
I was talking to somebody the other day and they said to me You know, what do you think the key to success is? And I said, I think it’s turning up. I think it’s turning up every day when you wake up. You mean Oh God, I’ll just watch Netflix bang, you go there. You know the amount of times I sit there and I think to myself, Oh, I’m gonna watch a film today. Yeah, that’s what I’m gonna do. I’m not gonna work I’m gonna watch a film and I got about eight minutes in another hour turn this off and go and work and I think he is the turning up. I don’t think that people need a huge amount of talent. I don’t think people need a business idea but is is a winner. I think they just need to turn up what you think
Jim Brown [42:35]
you’re you’re absolutely right. Now don’t get me wrong. There’s some great shows on Netflix right? And I like to make sure that I do detach from time to time and and and watch some of those But no, it is it literally is just showing up every single day and being willing to work and do something right. A lot of people go into their day with no clear plan. And then they get to the end of the day and like well, what what did I accomplish? Did I did I do anything today? And that’s just the worst You could possibly be in, right but like if you come into each day and you say, Okay, here’s the one thing that I know I have to get done and once that’s done, then here’s maybe one or two other smaller things that I’d like to get done. Every single day you’re knocking off one of these big rocks right from your checklist and if you’re, you know, carving that stone, right, you’re just chiselling away and eventually you’re gonna have this beautiful statue or monument that you’ve created. But it’s because every single day, you took some big big hacks out of the the rock.
David Ralph [43:27]
Well, just before we played the words of Steve Jobs, I have to say if anyone’s on Netflix and looking for something to watch, look for the kindness diaries is a guy who has been on Join Up Dots he’s coming on again, Leon lager, foetus and he’s travelling the world with no money just looking for kindness from strangers. And if somebody really is kind to him, then he has got the money and he changes their life little 20 minute episodes. Life Changing, really emotional. That’s what you should watch. Well, here are some words I always been a huge de emotional and going here. Again, Steve Jobs,
Unknown Speaker [44:01]
of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference. powerful words for the gym.
Jim Brown [44:38]
Now the very powerful words is very true. I am. You know, I was fortunate. Like I said from about fourth grade on I kind of knew what I wanted to do. And so yes, I can definitely look backwards and see the connection of the dots. But to be completely honest, like I mean, I believe I have tried intentionally to plan and strategically build upon my career. Now I haven’t known exactly what the next Step is but, you know, I wanted to be a graphic artist, right? So, in middle school I was taking the classes in high school, I was getting the internships right. And I was very specifically focused on that thing. My dad crushed my dreams that I couldn’t go to the school of my choice that I was accepted to, to study. So I joined the Marine Corps doing the work that I wanted to do, which most people didn’t even know existed, right. Left, the Marine Corps started my first business, I kind of capped out my mental state, I didn’t know how to do what’s next. And so I looked around as Okay, how do I figure this out? I actually took a job. I left my own company took a job to go somewhere else to learn the skills I needed. I spent seven months at that job and you you already talked about my short tenure at these these professions, but I learned the skills I needed to know went back out on my own ran another company, build it up until I said, Man, now I don’t know how to sell big deals. I don’t know how to sell enterprise level deals. So I went back got another job. I learned how to sell enterprise deals. Okay, that led me to another thing and I so I did just start I tried intentionally to know the path of Which I wanted to go. But here’s what’s scary to me now is I, I’m kind of at one of those summits again. And, you know, my wife and I have big plans for next year, we’re actually gonna take a year long sabbatical. That’s another story for another day, but I have no idea what we’re going to do when we get back, I have no idea. And it’s kind of scary. For the first time in my life, I, I just don’t know where I’m going.
David Ralph [46:24]
I’m not thinking that is scary. But it’s exciting as well. When you say that part of me flips in my stomach and the other half of me thinks Yeah, that’s, that’s the way to do it. Because life is just waiting to be filled of experiences. You know, the fact that I did whatever I do. I did 15 years in an insurance company and 12 years in a bank, and I can honestly say, I hate banks, and I hate insurance and I still do so in 25 years or whatever combined on those. I think to myself, what could I have filled it up with Now obviously, I look back on it now and I was too young. I was too young. We didn’t have the opportunities. We didn’t have the internet. Most debate. So you didn’t in the old days really have a chance to do anything like we do now. But certainly when my kids are coming along, I want them to just have experiences. I don’t really care about their studies as much as I should. I want them to go there and work hard. I want them to enjoy it. I want them to get good recognition. I don’t really care at the end because I want them to have the experiences and not just go into a job.
Jim Brown [47:27]
I have a group of friends, we meet once a month for what we call our adult dinner and conversation in our lap this last month last week. That was the conversation that we had because I’m starting to really try to figure out what I want for my son. And look, I was a C student. In high school student I think I graduated in the lower third of my class. But the things that I enjoyed in school are the things that I knew were leading to my career. And I’ve been I’ve been pretty successful, right, both with opportunity, freedom and some of my financial success, but I completely agree. And so for my son, I just, I don’t want him to fill his life with school and traditional education. Now, if he goes to school, and that’s what he enjoys, and he is passionate about and he wants to get all A’s, hey, by all means, but I’m not going to put that pressure on him to say, hey, you have to do this. Now. I will put the pressure on him says you have to try. Right? You have to actually show up and do something, right. But if he comes to me and says, Dad, I’m just I’m really passionate about this. I’m going to help him get and give him the resources to go explore the things that he’s interested in and passionate about. That’s what I want to enable in him.
David Ralph [48:39]
But let’s see what you would say to your younger self. And we know what you’re going to say to Nolan, you’re going to say, look, put that girlfriend away. You’re gonna come out with me tonight. But let’s find out what you said to your younger one. This is the part of the show that we called a sermon on the mic. When we send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the young Jim, what age and what advice would you give well, but Gonna find out cuz I’m gonna play the theme. And when it fades, you’re up. This is the Sermon on the mic.
Unknown Speaker [49:14]
With the best bit of the show,
Jim Brown [49:30]
little Jimmy, you’re eight years old now. You started playing baseball, you’re starting to have some fun and figure out who you’re going to be. And I’m proud of you. But I got a little bit of advice for you. You will never get anything in this life that you’re not willing to ask for. The worst thing that anyone can ever tell you is no. And guess what if they tell you that you didn’t have it anyway, so you didn’t lose anything. If you just start asking. You will be amazed. At the doors that start to open up to you and the opportunities to expose themselves to you, just by being willing to ask. Another piece of advice is I want to give you now, the permission to fail. It’s okay. It’s okay. And especially at a young age, right until you’re probably 30. And honestly, even after that, you can lose it all. You can lose it all. But you’ll recover, you have plenty of time. This is a long life. And lastly, I if I can give you one gift, it is for you to quit caring about what society expects of you. You don’t have to have your driver’s licence at 16. You don’t have to go to college. As soon as you graduate from high school. You don’t have to go sit behind a desk at a job. In fact, you don’t have to live with me here in the United States. If you want to travel the world and live in Thailand or England or wherever it is this world is your oyster. Go get it.
David Ralph [51:03]
Right advice and great advice to my own kids as well. Jim, what’s the number one best way our audience can connect with you?
Jim Brown [51:10]
I think the best way for me to connect is either LinkedIn or on Twitter. So LinkedIn, I’m just Jim Brown. On Twitter. I’m Jim underscore Brown. If you want to have more of a conversation, that’s where it’s going to be is on Twitter. But if you’re interested in the podcast that I do, it’s sales tuners.com. And like I said, I just talked to great sales leaders and, and high performing digital sales reps about how to get more out of the life that they’re living.
David Ralph [51:35]
Brilliant stuff. Jim, thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots. Please come back again when you have more dots to join up because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Mr. Jim Brown.
Unknown Speaker [51:48]
Thank you so much, David, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
David Ralph [51:54]
So there you have it, turn up. dooba work might be opportunities and Bane make money for yourself. It’s a four step process, really. And it is as simple as that. It is hard as well, you know, we’re not just saying that you can flick a switch. And if you see these people that say to you, I’ll flick a switch and you’ll be making six figures in six weeks. No, you’re not. Or if you do, it won’t be very long, six figures, and then the money, go back out anyway, do the work, turn up, make opportunities and make your money. That’s how it’s done. Thank you so much for listening to Join Up Dots. And thank you so much for all the emails that we’ve been getting through. We’re going to be doing some more Friday coaching sessions, where we will be responding to the emails, if you’ve got any questions about the show about anything in your life, feel free to drop them to us Join Up firstname.lastname@example.org and we’ll get you on the show as well. So yeah,
Unknown Speaker [52:46]
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you or wants to become. So he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to Join Up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on Join Up Dots.