Welcome to the Join Up Dots business coaching podcast interview with Deepak Shukla
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Introducing Deepak Shukla
Deepak Shukla is todays guest joining us on Join Up Dots business coaching podcast.
He is a man who i suppose its fair to say has had three lives leading him to this point.
Starting his life in a rough school, where nobody expected him to do well and gain entry to University (although it was quite obvious that he was gifted) he achieved his aim.
And this to me really places huge credit to a man, who when someone says he cant do something seems to want to prove to the world that they are wrong (not least to those inner demons that hold us all in our place).
Stints followed travelling the world, ironman competitions, Tedx talks, making documentaries about the homeless and the list goes on
But of course a career needs focus and and as he says ” After Uni, I went on to work at MEC – 1 of the world’s leading marketing agencies. I was fortunate enough to be 1 of only 6 hires out of 500+ graduates!
How The Dots Joined Up For Deepak
I then went on to work at Deloitte as a tax consultant, but decided to leave during the height of the recession to pursue my own business ventures, and dedicate more time to producing music.
150 rap songs later, having left my 2 studios and ‘movement’ that was known as ‘Deep Impakt Recordings’ behind.
I launched my first funded startup ‘Meet My Tutor’ in (an online marketplace connecting students to tutors) in 2010 with £75k, followed by ‘The CV Guy’ in October 2014 and ultimately Pearl Lemon in 2016.
And that is where he today running Pearl Lemon from home, local coffee shops and pretty much anywhere in the world (providing there’s an internet connection).
Pearl Lemon is made up of an amazing team of SEO experts,social people and writers – together, they GROW their client’s businesses and have fun whilst doing so.
And as he says “When I’m not working, I’m typically training or watching an action or horror movie lol.”
Sounds like a pretty good life to have for sure.
So is Pearl Lemon the thing that he has been looking for, or just another step towards where he wants to be?
And can you do these things on your own, or does it really need a team to start cooking on gas?
Well let’s find out as we bring onto the show, to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr. Deepak Shukla
Show Highlights
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Deepak Shukla such as:
How we can all do something up to the level of competence we already have in life (we dont need to be scared of trying these things in a different environment.)
Deepak shared how he reframed the question in his mind about how he could make it a profit by maximising a very small amount of money, and that was outsourcing.
Why the freelancer route is the perfect way to move into the entrepreneurial room. Pitch for clients, whilst still working in corporate.
and lastly….
Deepak shares how intuition is based around millions of micro experiences all giving you the knowledge to move forward with confidence.
How To Connect With Deepak Shukla
Return To Top Of Deepak Shukla
If you enjoyed this episode of Join Up Dots then why not listen to some of our favourite podcast episodes such as Dave Sanderson, Stacey Hanke or the amazing Dr Joe Vitale
Or if you prefer just pop over to our podcast archive for thousands of amazing episodes to choose from.
Audio Transcription Of Deepak Shukla Interview
Intro [0:00]
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling join up dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK David Ralph
David Ralph [0:25]
Yes. Hello there. Good morning, my friends, my listeners across the world. Good morning to you and welcome to another episode of join up dots This is one that I have been looking forward to for a long while because I get a lot of guests that sort of pitch to come on the show. And when you look at them, you think Yeah, okay, they’re interesting, you know, we can we can go here, we can go there, we can build a show around their stories. But this guy I’ve become a bit obsessed over the last few weeks is like going into a rabbit Warren, where you see this YouTube video in that YouTube video, and you think it’s at him, he looks a bit different there. I mean, it’s not him. And any way we’re going to bring him onto the show, because I suppose it’s fair to say he’s had three lives leading him to this point, as far as I can see, starting his life in a rap school where nobody expected him to do well and gain entry to university. Although it was quite obvious that he was gifted he achieved design, and best to me really places huge credit to the man who when when somebody says he can’t do something, I think he’s a bit bloody minded. He seems to want to go out and prove to the world that I are wrong, not least to those inner demons that hold us all down place. Now stints followed to traveling the world on man competitions, TEDx talks, making documentaries about the home list and the list goes on. But of course a career needs focus. And as he says, After uni, I went to work at mec, one of the world’s leading marketing agencies, I was fortunate enough to be one of only six hires out of 500 plus graduates and then went on to work at Deloitte as a tax consultant. And believe me from what I’ve seen of him, he’s not a tax consultant. He really isn’t. But he decided to leave during the height of the recession to pursue his own business venture, and dedicate more time to producing music 150 rap songs later having left of my two studios and movement that was known as deep impact recordings behind I launched my first funded startup meet my tutor in an online marketplace connecting students to tutors in 2010 with 75 grand followed by the CV guy in October 2014 it ultimately led me to pale lemon in 2016 and that is where he is today running pale lemon from home local coffee shops and pretty much anywhere in the world providing bears an internet connection now pOH lemon is made up of an amazing team of SEO experts social people and writers and together they grow their clients businesses and here’s a keeping had found the one was doing so and as he says when I’m not working I’m typically training or watching an action or horror movie not bad life. Okay, so it’s lemon the thing that he’s been looking for just another step towards where he wants to be. And can you do these things on your own? Or does it really need a team to start cooking on gas one it’s mine down as we bring to the show to start joining up with the one and only Mr. Deepak Shukla. Morning. How are you sir?
Deepak Shukla [3:13]
I was well I’m brown so I can’t go that red but I definitely was going red when this thing to that intro Jesus Christ by that I’m brilliant. Thank you for having me on your show me.
David Ralph [3:24]
It is great to have you on the show. And it’s great to have somebody that I could literally go anywhere but I’m going to go straight with the tax consultant, bloody tax consultant that’s the worst job for you. I cannot see you doing that I can see you being a rap artist. I can see you doing literally everything tax consultant where you bought out your scope.
Deepak Shukla [3:44]
I think that I am I’m before I was any of those things. I think I was I was a British Indian who had parents that, you know, figured that you know, as I did, correspondingly that I should have some form of like career that I could put as a stick a shiny sticker on my resume. Yeah. And that was the literally David at that time when I was I was 19 I was at work university I was looking for something to do. For my summer I was literature student and I just happened to be living with students that were like friends of mine that were in the business school and they were like, oh, we’re going to be applying for internships. We’re going to do this we can do that. And I just as many decisions have consequently been made in my life. Okay, that sounds interesting. Let me give that a go. And and that kind of led me down the rabbit hole of of applications to investment banks to consultants and all this stuff. And the the internship that you go on, are the internships. Great David there’s lots of alcohol. much work. Like it’s bloody brilliant. There is some work, of course, but but they really do.
David Ralph [4:52]
You’re doing our taxes, you’re doing our taxes at the same time. Is this what we should be sharing with the world?
Deepak Shukla [4:59]
Yeah, let me know. Let me add a caveat. I definitely being an intern probably no definitely wasn’t on any kind of sensitive documentation. But David you’re quite right. I went there as an intern. And then I went there as a graduate, and I kind of turned up and saw the reality of what it involved. And I would have sucked as a tax consultant, I really, I was kind of getting in trouble from from day one, I was known as the 530 guy, because I’d be out of the office on the dock, which is really not something you meant to do. And I very quickly realized that I would not succeed at having a career as a tax consultant, but it is how I started life. And, you know, it’s proven, somewhat useful peak is it does named like that, sometimes open doors. And you know, for that it’s been useful up to a degree. But yeah, definitely, tax consulting. wasn’t my strong suit or forte, and neither did I fit in when telling the tax partner, I’d like to go and pursue being a rapper. So so that went down. Well,
David Ralph [6:03]
it’s interesting, you say that, because I, it’s just coming to my head. And I’ve never shared this story on join up dots at all. But I actually, there was a stage in my life that I worked in that West Bank back in about 8687, 88, and I worked in the head office, and I got a job there being the auditor, and I’m not an auditor, I couldn’t. And in those days, it was like 470 people in his office and like two computers. And there was no screen on them. It just like printed out paper after paper after paper. And I had to do the audit or Robert Maxwell the the the mirror group of those a while. And if you if you want to Google it, you know, I’m not going to get down for liable because he’s not here anymore. He fell off a boat and drown. But he was as crooked as anything. And I had to do the auditing for him. And he came in and he bought me once he said, I hope you’re getting my fingers. Right. And I should have said to him if I’ve gone back in time, it doesn’t matter me. I can just put any figures I want. It makes no difference. You’re going to come to a sticky and so yeah, we put do things that way. We all do things about it some you look back on it, and you think really, really I was in insurance. She was a tax consultant. I’m doing this, I’m doing that. But it leads to somewhere, doesn’t it?
Deepak Shukla [7:17]
Oh, it definitely does. And what what what I think sometimes what people lose in that as they move forward in the future is that we’re all capable of doing almost anything up to a certain level of competency. And I think that sometimes people forget that when they become fearful of maybe stepping out into the world of entrepreneurship. And they’re like, Oh, well, I don’t know about that. And what if this doesn’t work and we forget the things that we’ve already achieved such as, you know, insurance or auditing or tax consulting. So definitely, I mean that that that environment is proven really useful, even if at the time I was like, oh, and fg What am I doing here?
David Ralph [7:54]
And you realize I’m over 48 years old so I always have to Google what these initials mean. Many people send me message and I’m going to say this to all the listeners out there if you send me an email or whatever, don’t put these little things. I had our F o l and I had no idea what r f o l was but I kept on getting it and I don’t even know where people make these up. Is there some kind of evening class your people go How do they find these initials?
Deepak Shukla [8:23]
I’ve got no idea how they kind of spread but I it’s a good question. I’d love to say Urban Dictionary but someone’s already spread it before it gets the Urban Dictionary then Merriam Webster and then maybe even Oxford but but let you
David Ralph [8:36]
know what do you know what?
Deepak Shukla [8:38]
I think it’s roll rolls over on the rolls on the floor laughing
David Ralph [8:45]
you’re down with a kids your dad? No, no one do. You’re doing everything you can just turn your turn. Yeah, do anything. I dislike you more Mr. Deepak straightaway. So let’s talk about power lemonade, because that’s where you are at the moment. And then we’re going to delve back now. pill. Lemon is one of the startups which it looks like you’re just doing it on your laptop. But actually, there’s a team behind it. And I’m always fascinated about that bit, where you’re starting to bring money in, you realize that you need to grow. You can’t do it on your own. But you haven’t quite got enough money in to start hiring people. How have you done that? How have you grown it because it is the quick route to success. We all know that. But so many people I speak to get trapped in that I haven’t got enough money to expand. So they just go round and round in circles doing everything themselves.
Deepak Shukla [9:36]
brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. It’s a david i think that you know what? What happened for me in the earlier days when I you know, I wasn’t making even let’s say, let’s say I wasn’t even making like four figures, right? Like thousand quid, I was making less in terms of kind of the money and Is that why can’t really do much to this, I can barely get beyond paying my rent, that there’s not much left at the end of the day. One of the things that I began to ask myself, that became ultimately, like, really powerful, I think over time was I’ve reframed the question, instead of saying, you know, how am I, for example, going to survive on this 300 quid a month that I’m getting from this client? The question I began to ask myself as well, Deepak How can I make a profit upon this 300 pounds per month that I’m getting from this client? And and in the answer, asking that question, I then I then began to begin kind of surfing the web and looking at, you know, outsourcing, overseas, hiring, and looking at all of these range of things. And it really led me down the rabbit hole of looking at kind of low cost virtual assistants. So Rebecca, who’s still with me today, she was one of the first members of my team. She’s now full time, you know, the, she’s on a salary now. But at the time that she started she, and she still is, you know, she, he’s a mother in Texas, she was in a full time job. She didn’t like the hour and a half commute, I think that she made to work, she wanted to be at home with her children. So she advertised her services for $4 per hour. And now I saw that at that time, and I thought, well, hang on. If I can hire her for $4 an hour, and I am getting 300 quid, I could still afford to spend maybe 20 hours of her time, still make a profit and still have the delivery to be pretty, pretty darn good. If I could figure that out.
David Ralph [11:31]
If it is a champion, Deepak just and think $4 an hour, it’s going to be rubbish, did you not have a quality control in your head?
Deepak Shukla [11:38]
And so absolutely, so so what happened was that I kind of made an ego check. And I thought that this might be rubbish, but everyone tells me it’s rubbish. I need to discover it for myself. Right. And I think that a lot of the time people will try one person get burnt and then assume, you know, one one, you know, one is it one could expose a brothel, something like that. So so so? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So Rebecca, was that the first person I tried, I tried about three or four different people. And then when I did find Rebecca, I was like, Okay, well, great. I just went in with the assumption that clearly, low cost people that are good do exist, the challenges is to find them. Because equally, I think high cost people can still be crap. And I didn’t want to make basically a 300 pound mistake, hiring someone else for two hours, and not really been left to, you know, do much with the money because it all gone on that person. What I thought was, well, if Rebecca or some version of Rebecca was crap, if I’m only spending $20 per person, so I can hire them for, let’s say, five hours, I can afford to test three different people at the same time, cost me $60. And between one of them, surely, I’m going to find someone who’s halfway decent. And that was the process at the beginning, that really helped me as I scaled because then when you start finding clients that can pay you let’s just say 600 quid a month, Rebecca’s cost doesn’t change. Her expertise grow, because you’ve taught some things and you know, you sent her videos for how to do things. And that was the process that really, really helped me in the beginning David that, that, wow, you can find people that are local. So you know, one of the people in my team now Lincoln from Jamaica, Kingston, I pay him six US dollars per hour. He’s great. He’s just 20 year old kid who loves the internet, he lives with his mom in Kingston. And that $6 per hour gets him his pocket money, he’s weekends out with his friends, he does 10 hours a week for me, and he’ll produce like 100 X in his value, because he’s already pretty good at Facebook and Instagram and and and leveraging those things have proven to be very useful in growing the business, meaning that I could focus more on the sales and business development and PR and all of those kinds of things to ensure that I could get kind of clients that can pay us more as we move forward.
David Ralph [13:52]
Right? Okay. So just while we’re on this subject, because this is key to so many people, and I must admit, with join up dots I’ve had some virtual systems that I work with. Yeah, and I found but I don’t know whether you think this is true. But I found the Filipinos brilliant. And I found the Indians, I found that there was just a kind of they spoke English, but they didn’t speak the same kind of English as me. And I felt like I was being totally clear and transparent. I had problems with this or communication with people in India, but I never had in America and the Philippines, I just seem to understand the way the English people spoke. How do people get across that? How do people find the right person and not have like ideas back and forth, back and forth thinking? Surely this is obvious, I’m trying to be as obvious and clear here, but it’s not quite getting it.
Deepak Shukla [14:45]
I understand David and I’m on board with it. You know, the the lower on the wrong level of kind of English is, the more complications come up. And certainly in India, you know, there’s still that, you know, there’s an Indian team in the team today. And communication, things do come up. Still, I’d say that I, generally speaking, if it’s someone who’s starting out, never never outsource something that you don’t understand how to do. Because you won’t even know what to look for. So what I have done that’s been very helpful for me is that I screen cost everything. So I never produce any written documentation for anyone I work with. I only basically do the process myself, record it on a video, upload it as an unlisted video to YouTube. And that has cut out 80% of the room for error with anyone that I work with, because I just make them follow the steps. So that’s to be honest with you David the thing that’s really helped me I go through the process, once I record a video, sometimes the process that I go through because I haven’t gone through it robustly doesn’t bring up maybe a particular quirk or error. And then we deal with that when it comes up. And I might produce another video, but generally speaking, that’s the loop that I follow.
David Ralph [15:56]
Right? Okay, so this is brilliant and and if we’re going to share some much good stuff here, because honestly, Deepak is somebody that if you haven’t heard of him, you should start following him. Because, as I said, one of the very beginning, I’ve been doing certain sort of stalking, basically online stalking. And another thing that I saw that you were doing Deepak and I got one of my PA, guys, I’ve only got one, and he does two hours a week, it doesn’t do it, he just basically steams through my emails, I used to do all the emails myself. And now he just sort of sorts out all the chaff and gives me the ones I need to do. And so it’s really good. And James, downloaded a thing where you were going on up work, and you were basically fishing the clients and doing something brilliant I’d never seen anyone do, which was basically you was doing your research on them, you were finding a common ground between the two of you, and then recording a personalized video and sending it to them to bridge that gap of this is complete Ranger. And I’ve seen this and I’ve actually shared it with some of my coaching guys, and said, this is a great way of doing it. And they found that they have actually got to either getting the job, or the last two because of bringing the personality into it. Explain how you came about that. Because as I say, you were the first person I’ve seen to do kind of video interview approaches.
Deepak Shukla [17:23]
Oh, brilliant. I didn’t realize that that process has happened. Thank you to your to your PA. So yeah, I am David you know what I think people forget that there’s, you know, there’s somebody else at the end of an application or anything that you do. So, context is really important, I think before you actually get to the actual process. So one of the things about any marketplace where someone’s you know, putting out a tender or you know, a job, you can have 100 people that are going to apply that again, that ultimately be saying they can do the same thing. There’s not too many different terms that I can use, if I’m trying to sell you SEO, I’ll be like, right, we’re going to talk about link building, right? We’re going to talk about, you know, the the Google Analytics or it’s going to I’m going to use the same keywords. So what is it that can be the differentiating factor, and that’s where you know what you don’t get if you don’t go with me David is you don’t get me and and i think that the quickest way to demonstrate that actually, is to find that common area of ground. So, you know, in the space of a job board because a lot of people might say what Deepak I don’t even know, like the company or, or know anything. And I think that you know that’s that’s that that’s a little bit of a lack of research, because there’s a couple of things that you can see just if we take the example of artwork, really simple. Number one, you could see how long the account has been around, like, let’s just say 2013. Number two, you can see what country and even city that based in. And then number three, once you’ve got the eight the account, you’ve got the location of the account, you can look at the historical feedback, the other freelancers have left about them. And someone somewhere will say I really love working with David Ralph really loved join up dots or something to that effect. So then you can get their name, you can get the business name, you don’t even actually have to leave the web platform, I could then simply send you a super quick two minute video saying, Hey David, I’m here applying for your job on artwork, I see that you’ve been using artwork for about five years. I absolutely love this platform. So So yeah, no, I totally. I’m happy to see that you’ve been here so long. How is it in Louisiana? I’ve actually not been there yet. Anyway, to come to the point. I’d love to talk about working with you. So yeah, I just want to say hello. So you can put a voice or a face to the name. I hope to hear from you David Okay, bye. And then you can attach it to the top of your application. And no one else will do that.
David Ralph [19:57]
Yeah, they don’t, they don’t. And I because I when I started join up dots I was very much into the entrepreneurial journey I still am. I think it’s fascinating how we can take control of our own life. Now, after 1100 shows it’s become evident to me. But there’s a lot of people out there that want to take control of their own life want to earn their own money, I Supreme, the talented, but lack but kind of hustle. But it needs to become an entrepreneur. I love the freelancing route where you can actually start earning additional money in your own time by posting on up work, I think it’s a real Great Bridge, to actually going from a corporate land where at the end of the month, even if you haven’t done anything, you get money to actually being able to start providing value, working with clients understanding what people want, whilst you’re not burning your bridges. To you David,
Deepak Shukla [20:52]
I think it’s the most important place that someone can start. And it’s literally how I’ve started really, I mean, a lot of people I think, and I made the same mistake, I say mistake, I went through the same journey when I was younger, as you spoke about, I want to do a tech startup, I want to build a seven figure business I want to, like actually know, offer a simple service that everybody can understand. So my agency po lemon, we do SEO, SEO will help a business rank on Google. It’s a service that everybody will get. It’s just a case of me building clients, but there will always be a need for that service. And that’s a great place to start from with a simple service or a simple business. Because the thing that kills Of course, everybody with their aspirational dreams is that well, we all need we all need an income we all need cash flow, we all going to need to pay our bills at some point. And and and starting something that doesn’t have a direct route to revenue is is really hard. And once you can solve the kind of cash flow problem, then you can start building other things around it. So as a consequence, because I’ve got power limit to a place where the income was steady, our clients are happy we’ve got retain the client is now that you know, I’ve lost online course and that’s beginning to make sales. I’ve started an e commerce store, we made our first sale and I can get into some of the more kind of let’s say what people would consider to be the sexiest stuff. But But I would never start there and I wished I started that journey of launching a simple service as a freelancer. I started by myself just you know, putting ads on like Gumtree and Craigslist and then trying not work and trying to figure things out. I wish I did that 10 years ago David because to begin with, I was like, right, I want to launch an e commerce store, right? I wanted to do a tech startup. And actually, you learn way more about the bones of business from from doing things like artwork and Craigslist and Gumtree and I learned kind of far more in those environments than I ever did from from kind of trying to launch a tech startup. Because effectively what I was doing was I was borrowing some money from someone else on the basis of a future result, which I hadn’t really demonstrated, I could deliver, and I wasn’t in the art of selling. And most of us fail ultimately, because we don’t learn the art of how to sell the service that we get. And you know, when you start by selling something simple, I think you have a much greater chance of actual success, and then all of those things that can follow it.
David Ralph [23:08]
I think, no Deepak that I would actually give you the shirt off me back, I, you know, I seen hustle, and obscene different avenues. And I’ve seen you doing stuff which has somewhat blown me away. And it all comes down to one thing, as I said, at the very beginning, it seems to be if there’s a challenge, you’re going to find a way to achieve that challenge. And you know, even like the Iron Man, the Iron Man isn’t a physical thing. That’s a mental thing. And having that mental strength is is more important than anything I can, for example, I teach people how to podcast, okay, and the first thing that I always say to them is, it’s got nothing to do with the microphone. It’s got nothing to do with the equipment, it’s got nothing to do with anything that you think podcasting is all about. podcasting is about finding a structure is finding a content, connecting with the right order. And then keep doing it, keep doing it, keep doing it. But so many people think I’ll plug in a microphone, and I do this and I do that, and I don’t just show and then oh, I’m going to be global dominating, it doesn’t happen. There’s got to be some kind of mental strength. But when things are shit to actually be going, Oh, it’s really bad. I’m not getting any listeners, I’m not getting any income. I’m not getting anything here. Everyone’s telling me to stop. But I’m going to go one step further. And I think it comes down to these words. Let’s listen to the words of Jim Carrey
Unknown Speaker [24:32]
my father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.
David Ralph [24:59]
Now, I thought I agree with that any more about doing what you love. But I do think that you’ve got to do the stuff you enjoy the stuff that you would do, even if it was free, the kind of hobby thing. So imagine that you love starting little businesses, getting your laptop on connecting with people, it’s that kind of jigsaw puzzle element of pulling something together, and will just grow into something bigger and bigger. I think then love is too big. I think that you have to try loads of different things, find out what you don’t like and then start to work in an area. And it could be that you find out that you like working outside, you don’t like to be in an office. So what things outside, you could be a gardener, you could be a tree surgeon, you’ve got to find areas within but like to grow into the love, do you think?
Deepak Shukla [25:46]
I absolutely agree. You know, you need to split test life and figure out what it is that you actually enjoy doing. And, and most of us struggle with that process of, you know, trying to jump from one thing to one thing because is, you know, it’s it’s you know, I think probably the same for you David, as I’ve got older, I realized that some of the cliches that I heard about when I was younger, that I thought kind of BS are true, that we stop ourselves that we get inside of our own heads. And the biggest obstacle is kind of us and and people will throw rush now will throw so many reasons for why well I’ll think about doing that. Yeah, and I understand what you’re saying Deepak or but and not just being open to you know what, screw it. Let me try. Let me try. Let me try again. Let me let me let me go for it. And and and i think that that comes down to kind of unlocking that that ability to deal with as you said, deal with pain, you know, deal with deal with frustration deal with rejection and to kind of keep on pushing through. And and and you’re absolutely right that, you know, the the endurance sports that I that I’ve done and I still continue to do they serve to kind of remind me of that lesson of you know, coping with, with with pain and problems and, and it’s a muscle, I think that atrophies so quickly. Like the feeling of you know, being in discomfort is something that, you know, we run from and, and I feel like that that’s the biggest inhibitor that stops people even from exploring how many likes that they have, that therefore can allow them to find something that they love. And it’s just because it’s so much easier to settle and to kind of pick one thing and and certainly, you know, that’s something I think that’s a big barrier to people kind of progressing.
David Ralph [27:38]
Now, are you telling me Deepak but you like a bit of pain? Is Is that what you’re telling me?
Deepak Shukla [27:42]
I think that I’m definitely a masochist on some level. I think that you know, I have to be with the tattoos, the amount of tattoos I’ve gotten, and the endurance sports. So so I do I do like a bit of pain. I I find it brings me a kind of freedom in my mindsets, certainly to go and explore and try stuff and to deal with the fact that you know, okay, well, if it doesn’t work, how can I make it work? Or kind of what’s next? Oh, yeah, no, i think i think i think i do David
David Ralph [28:14]
Do you know what I don’t understand my talking about tattoos. Now you’re, you’re in the end guy from descent, and you’ve got tattoos. My son in law is a black guy, and he’s really, really black. And he has black tattoos. And I say, what’s the point? You can’t see that? Why don’t you have white? I’m throwing it over to you. Why do people not have white tattoos? If I’ve got black skin and black ones on white? You wouldn’t go into black mold and use blackshark? Would you?
Deepak Shukla [28:42]
Absolutely. So I think that a lot of tattoos are about kind of self expression. And people confuse self expression with kind of external expression or perception. Tattoos are a really personal thing. A lot of people either want to enjoy the experience of the pain of having them to enjoy the experience of the pain of having them or and therefore three feel a sense of kind of accomplishment in the same way that you know, a sportsman or finisher 100 meter race or I’ll finish a marathon. And I’ll feel like okay, that’s another notch on my belt. Let me go and go out and get some more. So I think that maybe in the case here that, you know, he gets him because he likes the way that they make him feel. And and if that makes him feel powerful in his own life, then then amazing, it’s doing his job
David Ralph [29:34]
because you can’t see I’m jumping in there. It’s been it’s like a blister in my brain that was about to burst. I could see a man run 100 meters race and Ben he would stand up and he get his medal and I it’s miserable. I can see that. But what’s the point in pain? I don’t know how much a tattoo is, let’s say three pounds. Okay. And, and the last tattoo I had was one of those ones that you wrap on with water, you know, and you saw appeared off?
Deepak Shukla [29:59]
Yeah, yeah. Understood understood that that that you’re just in that case, you’re just considering the race day experience. So what is it that leads the athlete to of course, do all of the training in private in silence to have an if it is indeed to have the race day moment. For him, his race day moment might be up ending people’s expectations when he can pull off, pull up his sleeve and show that he’s actually covered in tattoos and the biggest surprise that he gets. So that could be his race day experience, if you like if we’re going to draw an equivalent, and everybody else just thinks, well, nobody can see it. Maybe that’s the point. Maybe it’s the fact that you can surprise people and you can append expectations. And that then makes it worthy of the pain. So it could be a combination of the two.
David Ralph [30:41]
Right? I love this. Right? Okay. So if we took this into the business sense, spin, we’re most of us are having tattoos all the time. We’re all sitting here, we’re in dark rooms with the curtains drawn. So we can see our PCs. And we’re working on things. It’s painful. We don’t know if it’s going to work. But there’s a personal pride that’s coming out. People want to see it. But you’re building something and you can see the vision and you know where it’s leading. Okay, then we’re going to get to that race day, we’re going to get to that race day when we actually present it to the world and agrees might fly or it may not we may get a gold medal, but at least we have been competing. That’s what you’re saying.
Deepak Shukla [31:19]
I think the if we’re going to transition into business, I think that what a lot of people, and that analogy is brilliant, actually, in the dark in our rooms on the PCs. I think that what a lot of people don’t do or they don’t do, what they do is that they find the wrong race day. So the race day that someone perhaps might seek with be saying, Deepak, I’m going to launch an online course right? For example. Okay, great, right, I’ve made my first video and I’m going to, you know, ultimately stick it on you Demi in two months, that that that shouldn’t be the race day, because that race day will not get you to actually a second or third race day, the race day should be getting to the first sale. And that’s the uncomfortable part that a lot of people I think will will shy from. And that’s, of course, a significantly different proposition, then getting into kind of the creative process where we can do things. And I think that what people don’t attach strongly enough, is the creative experience to the, you know, income generation side. And that’s something that I’ve done. I’ve got a bunch of courses on you, Demi, right. This is like several years ago, you look me up, I’ve got a couple of courses, I’ve got 20 or 15 courses on skill share. Collectively, they’ve made me probably $1,000 over four years, and they’ve represented probably hundreds of hours experience because my race day, I was looking at the wrong race day, my course going live with a race stake, the race day that I was focused upon, but was the wrong one. Now I’m beginning to see you know, now I’ve made $4,000 in court sales in the last three and a half weeks because I changed the focus of what the race day was, because I haven’t yet even built the course.
David Ralph [32:58]
Okay, so have you done Listen, because people at suddenly picking up there is here. So you made 4000 in the last three weeks? Is this a course that you were told was needed? Or is this something that you’ve decided it was needed? How have you suddenly transition this to success?
Deepak Shukla [33:16]
Good question. So the the video, I think that your chats or is part of the course launch sequence it he may be saw via Facebook ad. So infrastructure, really, what’s been different is that I had to decide not to kind of produce a whole body of content up front until I could determine its potential success. So what I needed to do was to, I think in the personal MBA, they call it shadow testing, where you put together the product page, you offer some level of advice or content as to what the product might look like, or will look like. And then you go out and try and sell it. So that was the thesis, the practical part is launch a Facebook ad and then run ads to it $1,000 in ad spend, and then have a 14 day email, sorry, a 10 day email sequence used using MailChimp including like a ton of value along the way and then making an offer at the end of it. Now that’s something that a lot of people probably infrastructural, you’re quite the okay depot, I get it. A lot of people get it and don’t try it or a lot of people try it and then kind of block the process along the way, because some of the things that you need to consider is of course, like buyer psychology. And this is where that video part comes into play. When we go back to outwork, which is, don’t try and sell something that weathers there’s not really any value, make sure that you you give value that demonstrates it, you know, this is a big deep rabbit hole. So the courses on how to scale an agency using cold email outreach, how to send cold emails, anywhere in any industry, that will allow you to generate business or to generate value, whether it’s being on podcast, whether it’s being on guest blogs, whether it’s you know, pitching someone to offer your social media services. And what was interesting also about that positioning is that it’s a pattern interrupt. Typically, people are used to seeing Facebook ads about Facebook ads, you know, launch of Facebook ads agency or launch a digital marketing agency. So it’s a combination of all of these things and understanding what is your unique perspective? What is your unique position positioning? How are you going to upend people’s stereotypes, and then once you can hook people initially up front, with kind of the sticker sale, and that would be those things we just discussed, which is the pattern interrupt is we’re talking about cold email, post GDPR. Oh, wow, I’m interested just because you’re talking about it, Deepak because I wouldn’t expect to see an ad like this. So it’s a combination of all of those things. And then at the point at which we made our first sale, then I began building the course.
David Ralph [35:48]
Now what I think so many people make a mistake on and I think I did this myself, if I went back in time, I was a sales manager in the City of London. And I used to do cold calling. And I used to pick up the phone and sell banking products and stuff, very much like a podcast, really, you had to try to connect with the person at the other end, build a relationship and hopefully come to a happy end at the end. And I was really good about it, you know, and I used to get awards. When I came on to the virtual world, I found it very difficult to close the call. And what I found, the best way of doing it was I realized that I didn’t have to set up anything new, I just had to go and mimic what people were doing out there who are already successful. And I spent time going to their websites, clicking on their PDFs, their magnets, looking at how their email opt ins work, it’s all out there for you, isn’t it and it doesn’t matter who’s out there, wanting to start a business, somebody would already be doing that business. And you’ve got to find the top guys, and start really dissecting and re engineering their business, this, which is what you’ve done brilliantly, you are a tester, you are somebody that’s willing to look you’re willing to put money in, you’re willing to use the profits, you’ve got to sort of expand, you don’t know if it’s going to work, but you’re not making it up from cold. You this isn’t just genius ideas. This is the scene you bought into the mix.
Deepak Shukla [37:20]
Absolutely, absolutely. I think that, you know, everyone should and again, we go back, of course, to to the mindset, having having the approach to be to accept that a lot of things that you do might fail, but to be open to testing, but also testing smartly. Yes. No, it’s never like, I’m going to go and bet my mortgage or bet the bank Upon doing something I’ll make better, you know, with money that ultimately I could afford to lose and, you know, in you know, and originally that was like with people like Rebecca, is that right? I can afford to lose $20 about 15 quid, I’ll spend triple that when I get pissed on in the pub anyway on Friday. So why the hell wouldn’t I? Wouldn’t I do that? And and these are the things that we say to ourselves like, Oh, you know, yeah, I do spend 60 quid a pub. And then we’re fearful of investing in like a $47, like info product, or $5 per hour freelance, or we want to compare different freelancers to check this and I’m, and I’m like, Dude, it’s $5. Like, just hire both of them. This is an irrational way of looking at it, given what you’d spend. And when people make that transition, and they’re open to testing. You know, I, as you said, I began to look at magnets. And then I hired a couple of coaches who had done course launches successfully, for a couple of hours spent probably, you know, a grand in in kind of learning. And then I launched and now you know, it’s a case of Wow, okay, so I spent the thousand dollars, I made four and a half thousand dollars back so far. What will happen if I put in $3,000? Would I then make $12,000? back? I don’t know. But that’s the process that I’m on. And right now, and I would not have got there. If I hadn’t, as you said David began to look at other things. And also not try and reinvent the wheel. Everyone wants to bake the new version of it. And actually, you can tweak things that already exist, and still put your own brand on it. But but but not completely blow up things. But you really only get there through testing, because you don’t know what you don’t know. And you only discover that when you when you generally go and screw things up. Yeah,
David Ralph [39:22]
I say that all the time. You don’t know what you don’t know until you find out you don’t know it. And next. That’s the key thing. I spend so much time actually podcasting. Very rarely. I do it three days a month. And that’s it. And the majority of time that I do with join up dots is looking at stuff, researching guests, clicking on their websites, looking at that thinking, Oh, that’s interesting. Back down, I’ve got so many bookmarked pages, which I need to clear off really well. I thought, well, that’s good. I say you better go back and look at it is Oh, you don’t know what you don’t know until you don’t know it. And if you aren’t going to work and you’re on the train or whatever. I would say to people, yeah, listen to podcast, but don’t just listen to podcasts, don’t just listen to them, as that’s entertainment. Go over to the guests look at their website and use as research. But don’t they just seem to like, Listen, like they’re going to get some kind of an amazing, inspirational journey that’s going to change their life, there’s going to be research, and there’s going to be non sexy stuff behind the scenes to get you where you need to go.
Deepak Shukla [40:28]
Absolutely. And I think that, you know, the most people just don’t want to do the dog work, do they? The real work comes, you know, in those quiet nights when you don’t, you know, as we said, the real work is exactly what you’ve identified. It’s not the race day experience, some people would consider what I’m talking about with you are being here as the race day experience. But you know, underneath this is me also doing research for looking at podcast and seeing, you know, is an interesting way to connect to David maybe, you know, what is my journey? How do I get here and all of that kind of stuff that I think ultimately, you know, when you when you when you when you get into kind of the meat and potatoes of it that a lot of people really don’t do or they they should do but then they cover it up with words. And it’s about separating kind of what people will say versus the activity that sits underneath that. And, and as you said it, you know, it’s all of that research all of those bookmark pages that that’s your audit trail. That’s your proof of life. And it sounds amazing. And you know, I kind of want to build a bookmark list that big anyway.
David Ralph [41:29]
A lot of it’s pornography, I’ll be honest, you know, but there is some business in there, there is some business but you, you got to have your own personal hobbies, don’t you? You have to have some downtime. Deepak don’t tell them why don’t tell them why. Anyway, let’s listen to the words of Steve Jobs now. He comes on the show every single day. And we’re going to hear him again,
Unknown Speaker [41:48]
is Steve Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future, you have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leaves you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [42:24]
Now I was in the shower this morning, before we started recording, and I was thinking about those words, and I was letting the water just go over me you know that when you’ve got 10 minutes, just gonna stand there and let it go the flow state of flow state and I was thinking about those words. And I thought the key thing about which I haven’t reflected on is unless you do stop, you ain’t got any dots. You know, it’s all right to say, the dots are going to join up. But if you sit in a room just watching Netflix all the time, you haven’t got any dots to join up, when you look at your own life, is it but the sort of the YouTube that TEDx all those kind of things that are really connected? That actually are your big dots
Deepak Shukla [43:06]
are David 100%. Right? I think that, you know, I think the way that, you know, it’s helped me maybe to get to the stage where I am and and also helped me kind of continue to grow is a you know, I call it acquiring data. You can’t do anything without data and data comes, it doesn’t it can, it can come passively, but it’s it can’t be reinforced passively, it needs to come actively. And that comes just through trying stuff come through all of the kind of different experiences that I have. And all of those things that we do try experience see say touch feel, it leads to loads of kind of micro experiences all kinds of mishmash together, hundreds of thousands of them to build what you know, a lot of people call intuition. Intuition is based upon ultimately acquiring massive data over time that allows you to kind of just get what to do in situations you know, it’s most evident when you look at people like Floyd Mayweather when you know he boxes and how he’s able to seemingly avoid every punch or you look at it, you know, with with with people at dinner parties and how they’re able to effortlessly kind of you know, move from conversation to conversation and do it without you know, interruption pause or a feeling of nervousness will complete strangers. And I think a lot of that comes from as you rightly said David you know, just just all of the random sh it that you can do with life, like acquire data, you will learn from it as long as the stimuli is is different and varied because, you know, your brain will find a way of connecting and bringing all of these things together. And that conversation you had three years ago on a beach in Bali, will help you at that business presentation that you you know are doing tomorrow and Tottenham, and it does all connect. And I think sometimes people get too worried, again, about analyzing what you know, how can I better benefit from this today? Or how is that going to help me with business deeper, you know, there’s a 22 year old friend of mine and I was encouraging him to go travel and he had traveling beatdown as I could go get drunk at a local club and try and meet some girls Why would I want to build a travel? And and and people was rationales or sounds
David Ralph [45:17]
good. He’s gonna point episode.
Deepak Shukla [45:20]
Yes, got a point. I think he has got a point. And then it just I think it comes down to like, you know, if you can, you can get as little or as much as you want out from any experience. Right. As you said, you know, we can listen to a podcast kind of very passively without thinking, right? Well, how can I take how David has set up the podcast about the fact that he intersperses these amazing quotes about how he moves? And does research? Like these are the things that we should be thinking about alongside just enjoying the experience of listening to the show? And, and and for me? Yeah, I think that, you know, there’s been lots of dots along the way. And I don’t still know yet, where exactly, it’s going to finish up. But But I’m enjoying the ride.
David Ralph [46:03]
So you would say, because we asked this in the introduction is pill, lemon, not your thing. It’s just a thing towards something else.
Deepak Shukla [46:11]
I think that I enjoy SEO, I enjoy the business of building the business of SEO. I don’t think it would be naive for me to say that it’s going to be my legacy business. I I’m 32. Now me, and I’m beginning to think a little bit more about Okay, you know, what do I want to build that I can be proud of power? Lemon is something that I am proud of right now. But yes, I think that, you know, in 10 years from now, I still hope to be running pOH lemon, but it would be a business that I own that someone else perhaps runs. So So no, I think that it’s going to, you know, be my life for the next several years. But I will something will not gone quite as I planned. If it’s something that I’m still in the day to day running of within even 18 months,
David Ralph [47:04]
I have a vision for join up dots I’ve been doing it for four and a half years now. And predominantly, it’s just been me, I’ve had a couple of days every now and again. But it’s been my way through. But I didn’t see myself doing this in 30 years. Amazing, it won’t be me, I will just run up, turn on the microphone and have lovely conversations, I’m sure will. And everything else will be done. But I see this as my legacy work. I don’t see any desire for anything else. And it feels good, it feels comfortable. It feels like home. And I know that if I moved from what I recall, just outside London, in a city called Essex or a state called Essex. And I know that if I moved to another house, or another place across the world, I would recreate my recording studio again, you know, I would paint it the same way I would do the same thing. It just feels like a home to me now. And it’s not something that want to leave behind.
Deepak Shukla [48:01]
Pretty and you know what that’s and maybe that’s, you know, that that may be my version of that because that’s amazing, right? I think that there’s there’s there’s some people in life that kind of figure out what it is that they want, you know, okay, let me go back a step. I can appreciate that some people looking outside and will be like, Oh, well, Deepak, you know, you figured it all out? Like not true, I’m still on my journey of figuring stuff out, I can’t give you as you can see, a straight answer or the straight answer is that you know what, mate? I don’t I don’t have that feeling with pOH lemon that you have with join up dots I have that feeling about growth, about business about trying as you identified as well. And and and maybe that’s going to be the journey that otherwise be beyond that I’ll build a business. I’ll try and get it to a stage where it’s self sustaining. And then I’ll move on to the next business. And I guess the because I’ve only really started on this journey me. You know, I only I started Parliament August 2016. But I was I was barely applying to the to RSS for the Iraq before that I was off doing army training the whole time. So I started this journey literally in August 2016. incorporated October. So so i i guess at the moment, I’d say, you know, asked me again in two years, and Time will tell
David Ralph [49:16]
where have you back on again in two years time. That’s it, that’s a deal. But what we need to do a course. So that we can connect the dots is send you on a journey. And that is the part of the show that we call the Sermon on the mic, when we’re going to send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back into a room and see the young Deepak what age would you choose? And what advice would you like to give him? Well, we’re going to find out because I’m going to play the music. And when it fades, you’re up. This is the Sermon on the mic.
Deepak Shukla [50:10]
Deepak, I know that you’re 19, you’re Warwick University, and you’ve got this kind of nervous way of looking at the world and his desire for approval. You want to be fun and want to be cool. And they’re not necessarily bad things. I want to really give you a couple of pieces of advice. based upon what I’ve learned with you, these last 1213 years.
Unknown Speaker [50:39]
The first thing is
Deepak Shukla [50:44]
learn about the things they’re not teaching you in school.
Don’t wait until your mid 20s to learn through your mistakes, read about relationships, read about cooking, read about friendships, read about business. And immerse yourself in those things. It will always always serve you, especially the relationship side, you’re going to fall in love one day, and you’re going to spend, you know, perhaps 20 years with that person. And it’s really powerful to understand, you know what it is to be with someone else, because it will also teach you about how to be with others that kind of come into your life and, you know, meet you. The second thing I’d love to tell you is to not rest on your laurels. So immerse yourself with the people in whatever facet of their life are high performance. And when I say immerse, I mean spent hours and hours. You know, listening to someone who inspires you to be, you know, the best version of yourself. It will allow you to do great things, it will open new doors for you. And I think that the final and third thing that I would say is don’t worry about something that you’d love to try and what it might mean in the future or how it might be, you know, beneficial for your career. Just go and say yes, you know, dare to dream, discover, explore, and really do those things that tickle your fancy. Because you know over time you will never regret you know those experiences that you have before the weight of responsibility kicks down your door. So enjoy University and I wish you well
David Ralph [52:46]
and I wish you well as well Deepak I’m not sure about 150 rap songs floating around. I still listen to all too because that’s one thing I couldn’t find.
Deepak Shukla [52:55]
Sure yet no, they’re all on SoundCloud. So if people search SoundCloud plus Deepak Trippler and they just literally googled that, or they went on to YouTube and search to deep impact but impact with a K like my name, so dw P and then a cave. So Deep Impact, you’ll find a bunch of my rap songs on either SoundCloud or YouTube,
David Ralph [53:18]
where we’re link as well so that people can go in and have the deep, deep experience of Mr. Deepak Shukla. Yeah, well, thank you so much for being on the show. What’s the number one best way that our audience can connect with you?
Deepak Shukla [53:30]
Yeah, guys, you know what you can look me up on YouTube. As David said, it’s perfectly fine if you prefer kind of my body of work. That sounds fancy. Go to Deepak chopra.com. And you know, all the stuff about the agency and my personal life and all of that jazz is all there. So YouTube, Deepak Shukla, or Google Deepak Shukla. And you’ll find Deepak Shukla com.
David Ralph [53:53]
Thank you so much for spending time with us today join up dots Deepak Shukla and please come back again when you’ve got more dots to join up because I I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Mr. Deepak Shukla, thank you so much.
Deepak Shukla [54:08]
David. Thank you. It’s been amazing being on your show.
David Ralph [54:13]
Mr. Deepak Shuker, I really liked him. And believe me, we could have gone into so many different areas. But growing a team I have that you grow a team, you find a little bit of money, and you don’t think to yourself, what can I do with that money? You think? What can I really do with that money? And certainly scaling when you haven’t got a lot coming in, will push you forward. It really will. And it’s a bit I see so many people get held back by they’re trying to do this, they’re trying to do that they’re trying to put things on Facebook, they’re trying to do YouTube, they’re trying to do with, there’s people out there but no real stuff, and they want to do it. And I remember a guest that I had many, many years ago I can’t remember who she was. But she said to me, You once you realize that you’re not just actually giving somebody a time you’re changing their life. People out there across the world actually want this to be done and they’re going to do the best job they possibly can. It really sort of spins it on its head and you realize that you’re benefiting and they’re benefiting so Deepak Deepak you’re a legend, sir, thank you so much for being on the show. And everybody else who is interested in being on the show, just come over to join up dots.com and go down to the bottom you’ll see apply to be a guest exactly as Deepak did. And if you pitch yourself and you show us the hustle, will be having a conversation. Until next time, thank you so much. That was David Ralph look after yourself. Cheers. Bye bye
outro [55:40]
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you are wants to become so he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to join up dots com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow. Enjoy join up dots.
