The Join Up Dots Business Coaching Podcast Email Marketing Mastery With Tom Trush
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Introducing Email Marketing Mastery Expert Tom Trush
Tom Trush joins us on the Join Up Dots business coaching podcast interview.
Over five years ago before there was even a show called Join Up Dots I sent an email out to Tom.
To be honest I can’t remember how I found him.
I can’t even remember the reasons why I invited him on my fledgling show for episode 17
However I certainly can remember the majority of the conversation that we had that day such was the effect it had on me.
Tom Trush is a Email Marketing Mastery and copyright expert and as he says “You know that feeling you get when you’re not generating the leads you want from your marketing?
Or the frustration of knowing you should be marketing more — but don’t know what to write or where to focus your efforts?
He now finds himself as the go to man for “Direct Response Copy writing”, and don’t worry I don’t know what that is either…..but we will soon.
How The Dots Joined To Gain True Email Marketing Mastery
He states that it was a game of baseball, but not actually getting on the pitch, and working in a library that started the path that he followed into adulthood.
And that is a hard one to join up the dots with in any shape or form.
But after working in a library as a teenager, Mr Trush picked up two books that quite simply changed his life.
By studying the subject, and developing his skills, it has know taken him all the way back to the library, joining the authors of those two books with three of his own
Since October 2001, I’ve been writing marketing materials that give entrepreneurs and executives — in 120+ industries — an alternative to the typical corporate nonsense that makes most outreach efforts useless.
From website content and direct mail to special reports and email campaigns, he now shows you how simply changing your perspective on prospects can help position you as an industry authority.
Deliver higher returns on your marketing investments and allow you to reach larger audiences with less effort.
As he says “The fact is, your prospects are more informed now than at any time in history.
This takes real email marketing mastery.
Easy accessibility to information has shifted the power away from anyone pitching products or services.
To see success with your marketing these days, you must deliver extreme value to even have a chance at capturing interest and closing clients.
So has things changed in his business and his mindset since the last time we spoke?
And is copyrighting about simply speaking in the first voice, so it’s like a conversation?
Well let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr. Tom Trush.
During the show we discussed such weighty email marketing mastery with Tom Trush as:
Why email marketing mastery is always about speaking in the real voice and starting a conversation with your.
How a call to action is such a key component to marketing that people often over look bigtime.
Why swipe and deploy is such an amazing strategy to find the true emotion of the written word.
How we can all get to the point where we lose the challenge and the thrill of building a business. However that is when the real work starts.
How To Connect With Tom Trush
Email Marketing Mastery Resources Mentioned On The Show
Or if you prefer just pop over to our podcast archive for thousands of amazing episodes to choose from.
Audio Transcription Of Tom Trush Interview
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. join up dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK, David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:22]
Yes, hello, a good morning, everybody. Good morning and welcome to join up dots is an absolute delight to be here to broadcasting into your ears, we have a guy who’s is is a special guest. He really is because over five years ago, before there was even a show called join up dots, I sent an email out to our guest today. And to be honest, I can’t remember how I found him. I can’t even remember the reasons why I invited him on my fledgling show. And Episode 17. He was now I certainly can remember the majority of the conversation that we had that day, such as the effect he had on, he’s a copyright expert. And as he says, you know that being when you get when you’re not generating the leads you want from your marketing or the frustration of knowing you should be marketing more, but don’t know what to write or where to focus your efforts. I fix these problems. He now finds himself as the go to man, but direct response copywriting. And don’t worry, I don’t know what is over. But we will also He states that it was a game of baseball but not actually getting on the pitch, and also working in a library that started to pop but he followed into adulthood. And that’s a hard one to join up the dots with in any shape or form. But after working in a library as a teenager, he picked up two books that quite simply changed his life. The well fed writer and the Millionaire Next Door, they put his interest to such a degree. But he literally wrote the next chapter of his life Ben Ben. Now by studying the subject and developing his skills, is now taking him all the way back to the library joining your visit those two books with three of his own. Now since 2001. He’s been writing marketing materials that give entrepreneurs and executives in 120 plus industries Yes, go him an alternative to the typical corporate nonsense that makes most outreach efforts useless. From website content and direct mail to special reports and email campaigns. He now shows you how simply changing your perspective on prospects can help position you as an industry of quality, deliver higher returns on your marketing investment and allow you to reach larger audiences with less effort. As he says the fact is your prospects are more informed now. But anytime in history, easy accessibility to information shifted the power away from anyone pitching products or services to see success with your marketing these days, you must deliver extreme value to even have a chance at capturing interest and closing clients. So have things changed in his business and in his mindset since the last time we spoke, and his copywriting about simply speaking in the first voice, so it’s like a conversation. Well, let’s find out as we bring on to the show to start join up dots Birla second time with the one and only Mr. Tom Trush. Good morning, Tom. How are you, sir?
Tom Trush [3:13]
Thank you, David. I’m doing awesome. Thank you so much for having me on. Again, I appreciate some of that what you said there at the beginning and moving back to like the library and baseball it brought back some pretty, some fond memories. And a lot has changed since the last time we talked. So and I’m excited to catch you up and share a few things. Thank you very much again, I appreciate it’s an honor to be back on
David Ralph [3:36]
the lights I have you so so yeah, you were Episode 17 when I was just a scheduling podcaster I had no audience I had I had nothing at all, what made you come on to a show because most people want to know what audience you’ve got. But I didn’t have an audience at all in those days. And you was kind enough to step in and be as a guest number 17. Why did you do that?
Tom Trush [4:00]
Well, I mean, like you said, I’m in the copywriting world where I write marketing materials for companies. And basically what I do is I I like to throw a lot of education into my marketing. And so I have written my parents are both retired teachers. So one of the things that makes my marketing unique is I just like to share tips, I like to give people ideas, things that they can help them, you know, especially in in in the marketing world, so I don’t care if the audience is, you know, one or 100 1000, whatever. If I could say something that’s going to help somebody, you know, take their business and do something different, you know, see better results with their marketing, just one person, you know, I think it makes it well worth it. And I think it’s just one of those things where, again, having parents who are both teachers, my wife actually is a teacher as well. So I’m surrounded by teachers. And I think it’s this idea of giving back and in sharing things and sharing knowledge that can actually help people. And it’s just one of those passions. And I think that’s what makes my marketing a bit different to
David Ralph [5:01]
Well, what makes you different really is that bridge from being able to speak and write. Because I’ve seen some copywriters doing keynote presentations. dreadful, dreadful, I think to myself, I can’t be bothered to listen to you. Why would I want to read what you’re writing? Is? Is it a skill that actually people that can’t speak? do better? Or is it do you do need both skills to work in hand in hand? Because it is like a conversation? You’ve got to start with your prospects, isn’t it?
Tom Trush [5:32]
Yeah, David, you said the the key word there, it’s a conversation. Unfortunately, when a lot of people, you know, if they’re the CEO or the founder of a business, and they’re doing their marketing themselves, something happens in their brain, and they sit down in front of a computer, or they have a blank sheet in front of them. And they think, what do I have to write here to get somebody to buy for me? What did I have to write to generate a sales. And what happens is, they start thinking in a way that isn’t conversational, they start putting words down on paper that they think you’re going to convince somebody to buy something, and then they turn back into their school days, where English teachers are telling you about proper grammar. And, you know, you have to have X number of sentences in a paragraph. And you can’t use fragments, sentences. But marketing is all about a conversation. And that’s really what you want to do with your your marketing copy is you just want to make it a conversation. Imagine you’re sitting you know it just like you and me having a conversation right now that’s the way that we can, we should be looking at our marketing, we should have the conversation going just on a website and a paper on a letter, whatever it is, just imagine it’s a conversation. Don’t think of it as marketing, because often the most effective marketing doesn’t look like marketing. It doesn’t sound like marketing, it doesn’t smell like marketing. You can we know how to ignore marketing, and our brains are naturally trying to ignore a lot of advertising and marketing. So we got to get beyond that. So if we just think conversationally, that’s the key to creating more effective marketing.
David Ralph [7:09]
Now, a lot of what I’ve been talking about in join up dots, Tom is about building the relationship, you don’t go for the sale, you go for the relationship, and then little by little a sales naturally occur. Now one of the problems that you see in that regard is bad people get so sucked into building the relationship. They don’t get to the point of actually trying to close the sale. Is that something that you see as well in writing that people just keep chipping, chipping out, chipping out and not actually ever getting to the point?
Tom Trush [7:39]
Yeah, so it’s a mistake that I’ve made quite a bit like, especially early on in my business, I would constantly deliver education and never asked for the sale and wait for somebody else, to just reply back. Let’s say it was email marketing, wait for somebody else to just reply back and express interest, rather than you actually asked for the sale are asking to do something or as some kind of question to take that next step beyond me just delivering information. And I hate to admit it, but I would do it with clients as well, I would focus so much on the education and just putting out material that the sale would take. It would kind of take a backseat. And so I think I agree with you, Dave, I mean, that’s one of those things that I think is a big mistake. And it’s especially critical now. Because the reality is when it comes to marketing, all the content and educational content, it’s it’s almost become a commodity, because the internet, you know, we’re constantly getting bombarded by information, there’s so much information out there. And so if you’re delivering information, you’ve got to deliver some really good stuff now. And that asking for the sale really does become more key now more than ever before.
David Ralph [8:51]
Now, we’ve all been sales, everything we do. And it’s one of the sort of badge of honor is that the people that are in sales that do it really well don’t actually have to sell, it kind of naturally occurs. Now, a lot of my audience will be coming to this as the beginning building point of their platform. Is it something that they have to be really aware of? Do they have to wait until they’ve got brand authority? How can somebody go from zero to 60 miles per hour as quickly as possible by taking your techniques forward?
Tom Trush [9:26]
That’s, that’s a really good question, David. And this is something that I know I’ll get pushback on. Because I think especially when somebody is starting a business, they worry what other people think about, then they worry about, hey, they’re not going to hire me or they’re not going to buy my product or service, whatever it is, because I’m just getting started. And I think that’s a big mistake to think that way. And that’s where you have an advantage, if you actually put out marketing that helps people, because the reality is, if you’re delivering information that’s helping people, let’s get that getting them a desired result. It doesn’t mean whether you’ve been in business for, you know, six weeks, or six years, if what you deliver to them truly help them, it helped them get a desired result. They feel in debt indebted to you. And you know, they want to return the favor. And then what happens is you’re now positioning yourself as a helpful resource rather than just somebody pitching products or service. So not only do people then start looking to buy from you, they also look you as a resource for other things. So questions related to your product or service, maybe it’s something you don’t even offer, but then you can refer out. So I think it’s an incredibly powerful, powerful position to be in, if you position yourself as a helpful resource, rather than just somebody trying to pitch products. And that’s the mistake that people when they first get into businesses, they think they got to constantly be pitching their products, because that’s what they see other people doing. So if you could switch it and think about, you know, what information, can I provide somebody that if they took action on what I share, they will see a result by tonight, that’s always something that I’m thinking about in the back of my head, because, you know, I want to reward people for consuming the marketing that I create. And that’s an easy way to do it is just simply give them valuable information that’s going to help them get a desired result.
David Ralph [11:16]
Now, what we’re talking about here, we’re talking about value first and foremost, because as she was talking, I was reflecting on the law of reciprocation, and there is a law for the listeners out there, and you can test it yourself. But if you do something for somebody, they feel almost duty bound to do it back to you and to help you out. And you can’t escape from this feeling of being obliged to provide something. But this isn’t what we’re talking about here, Tom, is it we’re not providing a sort of reciprocation relationship we’re providing value. First and foremost,
Tom Trush [11:55]
I think it is, I would argue that we are providing by providing something that gets somebody a desired and results. It may not be a tangible item that you can hold, you know, but it is, information has value, and knowledge has value. So if you’re expanding that person’s knowledge, and you again, you’ve helped them achieve some kind of desired result, they’re naturally going to look to return that favor. And that is where the Law of Reciprocity that that is a huge thing that comes into marketing that gets overlooked. So I’m glad you brought up that point. Because it’s, it’s incredibly powerful. It’s like I’m a professional podcaster. And it Tommy’s, it’s almost like I know what I’m talking about.
You’re sure do.
David Ralph [12:40]
So with everything you do, because it’s there’s a certain point in business. And I will be totally transparent on this. But there’s a certain point where the outside view of what you’re achieving is more glamorous when the inside view and you’re running around the headless chicken trying to get things sorted, but outside, it looks very glamorous. Where is your business now compared to where it was five years ago, when we last spoke? Oh, man,
Tom Trush [13:11]
I’ll be real transparent as well, just like you, I mean, I’m still running hectic. And I’m still trying new things all the time that that’s one of the things in the marketing world is that strategies and tactics other other there are some foundational ones that are going to work. As we know, with the internet, there are constantly changing ways to do outreach and to communicate with people and consumers behave, consumer behavior changes as well. Like for instance, regardless of what business you’re in, people are expecting quick responses. And there, they are looking for different ways to communicate with those businesses. So it may be something like, instant chat, it may be you know, it used to be a lot of email. But even prior to that, you know, it’s simply just getting on a phone. But what’s changed is that people are looking for solutions faster, you have all this information at their fingertips. And so you really have to have messaging that’s going to stand out. So for my business, that’s what I’m doing is I’m constantly looking at different ways to do outreach, and I’m testing different strategies. And you know, I’ll fall back in and, you know, go on some of the tried and true stuff, I still use things like direct mail, where I’m simply just mailing people, information, mailing letters, and I do that with my clients as well. But then we also have to look at at, you know, mediums like Facebook, and Facebook advertising, and all the pay per click dads, and all that kind of stuff, you still have to look at those things. Because, again, consumer, the way that consumers gather information is constantly evolving. So you have to stay at the forefront. So at no point in my business, do I ever feel like I’ve gotten comfortable, it’s constantly just running like crazy and testing different things. And where I think people in the marketing space have have some heft trailed off, it’s because they got comfortable, and they they aren’t willing to change. And this is just an industry where you have to be willing to change, you have to be willing to test you have to go in knowing you’re going to fail a lot. And your most marketing, it does fail. And it’s not that it fails, it’s that you figured out a way that it wasn’t working or didn’t work at the level that you wanted to work. So now you have to go and you have to adjust. And then you have to send out again, you have to it’s just a constant battle of adjusting. So I’m going to be very transparent and I business I I don’t feel comfortable. I constantly and I’m hustling and thinking about the next thing and in trying to bring the next thing to my clients so that we’re staying on top of your consumer trends. So it is a constant battle.
David Ralph [15:50]
Because I actually am very comfortable at the moment. And it’s almost like the five year I’ve hit five years and upset two people, I feel like the build is over, is ready for the next stage. But I’m not really sure where I’m directing myself in my energy. So I’m just going to just in that position of comfortable existence. Fortunately, it’s going very, very well fortunately, it’s very profitable, all those things that you struggle with at the very beginning. But I do think there’s a comfort that I got, which is allowing me to be ready for the next stage. So in your lifetime, how do you know if you’re constantly hustling around? How would you know that you’re ready for the next stage ready to really ramp it up because your energy can go off in so many different directions, you lack the true energy momentum of going in one direction?
Tom Trush [16:46]
Well, I this is interesting, you bring this up, because this is only in the last I’d say like two years, where I look for areas of inspiration, like in curiosity, as well. So a lot of what’s changed in my business has been a result of things outside of the business and where I’ve been inspired outside of my business. So just to kind of take us off on a little tangent. About two years ago, I’ve always been a runner, like I I enjoy running just to stay in shape. But I felt like it was getting stale. It was getting boring. There wasn’t anything that I didn’t like doing races or anything. And so I got into running ultra distances. So an ultra distance is anything beyond a marathon. And so it’s this whole idea of I started setting these new goals for myself, like it was, of course, I had run marathons and run 10 marathons before. But now I just felt like there was something different. There was like I had some energy that I didn’t know what to do with. And so I started running these these longer distance and what a race where I was running for 12 hours. Sure.
David Ralph [18:03]
And then how long is that actually, so 12 hours, but how long distance so that people understand?
Tom Trush [18:09]
Well, and that one, my goal, the first time I ran that I was looking to run 50 miles, and I didn’t do it. I didn’t, I ended up with like 46. And so then I went and I thought, well, I want to do it, I gotta do this again, because I didn’t reach 50 and then every 48. So I just, you know, just under again. And then here’s the crazy thing is I hired a coach. Most people would look at this and be like, you know, what, what is Tom doing? He’s, I’m 43 years old, you know, my running career? It’s not like, it’s going to take me to the Olympics, why am I going to hire a coach to, you know, achieve something that really has no impact on, you know, my life as far as like, you know, like a financial impact or anything, but I heard this coach, and it’s been a huge lesson for me, cuz I’ll take this back to the business because it totally relates to what I’ve been doing in business. I hired this coach and and I told him, Hey, you know, I’ve tried now, twice to reach 50 miles, I haven’t been able to do it. This is a guy who he holds the Canadian national record for 50 K. And so he was, you know, well versed in running ultra distances, it basically was this whole idea is find somebody who has achieved what you want to do, and then figure out what they’re doing that you can apply. So the third time I go back to the race, and I hit the 50 mile mark. And it was simply this idea of you, I found somebody figured out what they were doing. And they help you know, coach me and I kind of break broke through that plan to win that plateau. Well, now since I’ve now gone beyond that, where I’ve run like 100 K, recently did that in in February. And now I’m looking to expand that even further. And so that inspiration from Ronnie then transferred over to my business because I was like, man, where else? Am I selling myself short in my business? And why can’t I take the principles that I use for running like constantly trying to achieve the next level and running? Why am I not doing that my business? Why am I so comfortable, I get so comfortable in the business, where you know, financially, you’ve got enough money coming in, you’ve got clients, and it’s just kind of customer, you could sit back. And I and I kept asking myself, why am I willing to do this outside of the business? Why don’t I start applying this the same principles that I take from running and apply it to the business just so I can reach that next level. And it created this new hunger, for business and for my own business. And I started to see changes even my business and, and going to that next level and doing things like because when you start setting a goal, you start thinking differently. And so my business, I started setting these different goals, just like I was doing with with running and so my thought process changed completely, rather than just be comfortable of you know, where I was financially. And, you know, client wise, I started thinking, Well, what can I do different? So it’s been quite a change, you know, just in the last two years have really kind of taken the business to relax level just because I’m thinking differently. So I kind of rambled there. I hope it’ll make sense.
David Ralph [21:21]
It certainly did. And for the listeners out there, I didn’t Patty, and we’ve got a big delay between me and Tom at the moment. So it’s very much I wait for him to finish. But a couple of things that sort of popped into my mind that I would normally have jumped into is what what is the difference been between that two miles. So you get to 48. And I was thinking to myself, come on, Tom, you could have done the last two, you’ve done 48. You know, what, what, what makes you stop at that point, when you’re so close?
Tom Trush [21:50]
Well, in those in that particular race, what it is, it’s a 12 hour race, so you only have 12 hours to get the mileage in. And the goal is, you know, ultimately, the goal is to see how many miles you can get in in that 12 hour period. And just keep coming up short of that 50 mile to 50 mile was the goal that I set for myself wasn’t necessarily for the race. So I just kept the time would run out before I could get those miles. And that’s so it wasn’t like I just, you know, stepped off. And you know, quit the race, it was more like I just didn’t get in under the time period.
David Ralph [22:24]
Now is interesting, because if we bring that back into business, I know that one of the things that people struggle with, is setting that kind of time scale, oh, I wouldn’t have had this by this point. And I would have bad and it there’s a truth. But if you think it’s going to take two years, when you’re building your own business, it’s going to take four years, and it’s going to cost twice as much. Does that now that flexibility of going? I’ve done enough? It wasn’t where I wanted to be back? It’s enough. Does that really sort of push you on mentally? Or does it pull you back? Is it bringing disappointments in your life?
Tom Trush [23:03]
Yeah. Well, here’s the thing. I think that in business like, well, we get comfortable at a certain point. It’s one of those things where you need something that that really inspires you to kind of reach that next level where I was falling short is there, I wasn’t really finding anything that was like super inspiring. And I and I recognize this whole thing. We hear it all the time in business, especially like in in Business Improvement where you’ve kind of set these goals and they’ve got to be smart, like that whole acronym. I think it’s like specific, measurable, I don’t even remember what what all of them stand for. But that would just run one run in one year, and then out the other, I never really would pay attention to it. Because you just you hear it over and over again, it didn’t have any meaning what I found is there has to be, you know, whatever goal you’re setting, whatever that next level is, there has to be like a true meaning behind it. Like why you’re doing it. For me like for for running. It’s it’s been, hey, you’re getting old, you’re getting older, you know, why are you doing this in your mid in your mid 40s, I would have people tell me like I’m having a midlife crisis. But it’s me. It’s just like, it’s constant improvement. And I think that is a society, that’s where we go wrong. Like, unfortunately, we’ve got these mediums like, like social media where we can just get on there and we can complain. And that becomes like a I don’t know, like a pastime for people a hobby. And there’s no real benefit to that. So I’m always looking for things like, you know, that’s actually going to not only benefit me, but maybe you know, benefit the world, inspire some people a little bit and see that, you know, it doesn’t matter like your age, you can always find something, that next level, whether it’s personal, whether it’s it’s your business, but there just has to be some meaning behind it the reason that you you’re doing because it wasn’t a true meaning behind, you know, that new objective or what it is, then it’s very easy to just fall back and just go into the old routine that you did before and just stay comfortable.
David Ralph [25:11]
Yeah, I agree with you totally. Funnily enough, if you go back before join up dots time, I was really obsessed by the 8020 principle and the four hour workweek and all those kinds of streamlining your days to find the maximum benefit. And as I proceeded into join up dots, I think because I didn’t know enough about the industry. I tried everything I and I look back on it now. And I think really all I should have been doing was what I needed to do is actually build a business, podcast get better at bat, and then make money and over volleying around, as we say, in the United Kingdom, on Instagram, and Facebook and Twitter, and all those kind of things, it was just taking my energy away. Now, once again, putting it back into the running Mario, you wouldn’t start running and be spending all your time doing anything else other than running, you’re just focused on that task. And that is where your energy gets worn out in business, isn’t it when you’re trying to do all these other things, but you’ve forgotten about your key purpose. And your purpose is to like great material, but inspires people to work with you, basically. And a story.
Tom Trush [26:24]
Oh, you’re exactly right. I’m so glad you brought that up, David, because that’s another mistake that I I made a lot in businesses, you know, constantly going after seeing what other people are doing and thinking man, they’re doing that, I guess I should be doing that or that’s the latest and greatest tactic. I better jump to that and give it a try. Rather than just staying with your primary focus like for you, you know, it was podcasting. And you’ll learning all all the strategies, you know how to put out the best audio, all that kind of stuff. But it’s so easy to get distracted and you worried about your what others are doing rather than just focusing in and what you have to do and what where your true talents are and where your passion is, you know, who cares what other people are doing, we worry so much about, you know, others and what they think about, you know, what it is that we’re doing that we get distracted. And then we think well, we got to do something else, because this is what everybody else is doing. Rather than just sticking with the course and doing what you know, what you know, is right, you know, especially when it comes to, to business,
David Ralph [27:27]
and also for the listeners out there, if they’re in this conversation and they think okay, I’m good at writing. I reckon I could do this, this could be a business for me. You don’t have to make it up to you. You can come over to Tom trashes website, you can come over to you know, all the copywriters and the clues are there. As I always say success leaves clues. And so you’ve got it in front of you, you got the blueprint, but people don’t people’s kind of think they did that stealing it over. They need to make it up as they go along. But they don’t nice. Oh, yeah.
Tom Trush [28:01]
Yeah. And the copywriting world, there’s this whole concept of swipe, and, you know, swipe and deploy is, is the phrase that’s used a lot. And what you can do is you can look at copy that’s already been written, you know, whether it’s about your product or service, your industry, it doesn’t really matter. There are certain times like you will read an advertisement or your marketing piece. And if in your mind, you think man, that was good, or like you realize that what it is that you just read just cause you to take some type of action, you’ll analyze that copy a little bit and see what was it What was the strategy that was used? And when you swipe copy, the idea is, it’s not that you’re swiping word for word, that’s the dangerous thing to do. You don’t want to do that. What you want to do is you want to figure out what was the process that was used, what was the strategy, the technique that was using that copy, and then you you can apply it to, you know, to your own to your own marketing. The challenge, and I touched on this a little bit earlier, it’s like when we sit down we we want to write some type of marketing copy, we put a lot of pressure on ourselves, because so often we’re looking at a blank document on our on our computer or a blank sheet of paper. And we’re thinking about, you know, what, what can I put down, that’s going to get people to buy. And that just puts us into in the wrong mindset. One of the big keys with swipe and deploy is like, you start looking at other you know, types of marketing types of advertising, and you look at the words that they’re using, and you just use that as inspiration. There’s a great website called swiped in its swiped ko SW i p ed.co that.com. co. And on that site, there are a lot of advertisements on there in like direct mail letters and different websites and Facebook ads that you can look. And you could see what are some things that are working? Well, what are some campaigns that are working? Well, it’s a great source of inspiration that’ll really help when you sit down to write your own marketing copy.
David Ralph [30:05]
And are there people out there that you look at? And you go that that’s amazing. That is that is just like, I don’t know, it’s so emotional, it touches me, God, I really want to be like that person.
Tom Trush [30:19]
Yeah, and there isn’t just, you know, one or two specific people, I feel inspired every day like, I mean, I’ll just be on Facebook or something, and I’ll see some Copy that, you know, maybe it’s a sponsored ad or whatever. And I think and often it’s because you know, I’m following marketing type people. But I think man, that was really good. Or I’ll get an email in my inbox. And I think, dang, that was pretty clever. And I even have a folder in my email, and I just called a folder, good stuff, you know, generic name. And then I just keep emails that people have sent me just that I thought that were really good that I knew would inspire me down the road. And when I’m stuck, or I just need to get started on a marketing piece, I go to the good stuff folder, and I just start reading. And it just gets your mind work. And it just kind of it’s like, you know, grease in the wheel or diesel axle. Kinda like sometimes you just got to give your mind a little jumpstart. And so that’s a great way to do it is start keeping track of different marketing pieces, or emails or whatever it is that inspired you keep track of those things, then you can go back and you look at them later. Because I’ll be honest, I rarely listened to a podcast. And if I do listen to a podcast is going to be one that’s created by the BBC or an organization where the audio quality is good. And I struggle with listening to podcasts because I don’t think the quality is out there. Oh, yeah, that’s a good point. But those ones like say that the BBC, I mean, listen to those and like the audio, and just like, you know, everything about, you know, some of those those productions. I mean, the the level is so high that, would you agree that it’s like inspiring or like, Do you get it from those when you start listening to those audios?
David Ralph [32:03]
I don’t as much of the good ones. But I it’s like having a good boss and a bad boss at work. I think I’ve learned more from bad bosses when I have good bosses.
Tom Trush [32:14]
Oh, that is good about you’re learning what not to do. Because you figure if it frustrates you, then it’s likely going to frustrate the listeners. And after all, I mean, if if most of stuff out there is bad, you’re now knowing Okay, here’s the here’s the level. That’s that’s bad quality. Here’s where now I need to take it, I need to step up and I need to go to the next level. That’s it. It’s a good point you bring up there, David. So we’re looking at a slightly different way. I
David Ralph [32:40]
always do look at it that way. So what is it about marketing now? Because after a while, I think that you can almost become jaded by it. By by any business. And I’m once again I hold my hands up, certainly I’d look back at Episode 400 of join up dots. And it was entirely I’m so tired of it after 400 shows. But that’s okay. And I listened to it. And it was me basically saying, it’s just a conveyor belt. I’m just churning it out, I’m just churning out and so but for that period, I I’d lost the love in podcasting. And I could have easily stopped. But I’ve become obsessed by it again. Now. I’ve taken it to that next level with yourself. Are you in that obsessional state are you where it’s not work anymore, you just want to become better and better at it.
Tom Trush [33:33]
I think from day to day that changes. There are some days where truthfully, you know, if it’s a heavy day where I know, it’s I’m just doing some client work and the client work is okay. But it’s nothing that’s that’s super fun. Yeah, I mean, I, I’ll get to the point, in those days, where it’s almost like depressing, where you’re like, Man, you know, I can pump this out, this is fairly easy. There’s nothing that’s really challenging me. So yeah, I have those days. But then there are also days, like, the next day will be something completely different, where you I’ll be working on a project in a lot of times, it’ll be a project, you know, for my own business, that it’ll just inspire me, like, it’ll it just like a different, it’s a different switch. And you start thinking, again, I kind of go back to the whole goal thing, when you, when you start looking at doing something at a different level, your mind just starts thinking differently, because you know, so, so often, we just kind of get in a comfort zone. And after we’ve been doing something for a long enough time, it’s almost like, you know, you hear that whole cuts of black, do that with my eyes closed? Well, you know, in any business, it’s the same thing where you get into this routine, you can, you know, pump out for me pump out content and a fairly consistent basis, and it doesn’t take a whole lot of effort. So you can you have to just, you know, constantly find those projects that are pushing, you know, pushing you to the next level push you out of your comfort zone, causing you to do things that you don’t necessarily wants to do. And I often find, you know, if I work as a sign, it kind of sounds cliche, but you know, if, if your mind is telling you, you know, you shouldn’t be doing it. Because it’s too hard. Well, that’s often the things that you’d have to do, or you should be doing. And I find that’s where I find the most inspiration in marketing, because there are still plenty things, plenty of mediums or strategies out there that I haven’t done. And I’ve just held back and doing them, you know, a lot of stuff with, like we’ve talked about, like an old Facebook advertising world, you know, there’s some things that I do, but it’s just like, it’s so wide. That, you know, there’s lots of opportunities to learn. I think that’s what that’s another thing that drives me quite a bit is, you know, just that idea of, you know, learning new things all the time. And I think that’s, I mean, that’s just key. And I think that’s where you get a lot of inspiration, if you’re constantly about learning and you know, finding something new. It just keeps you going.
David Ralph [35:57]
And that is the obsession stage, isn’t it, that’s one, you, you start off with something because you think you’re gonna like to do this, this sounds fun when you get into it. And you think actually, this is a lot harder than I expected. It looked easy. I thought this was going to be fun. But but there’s, there’s an engine to build here. And I don’t think I’ve got all the bits when you get to the point where it’s rubbing along quite nicely, and you’re just sort of coasting. And then I think that’s the point where you’ve really got to be aware of it. That’s the point where you could almost stop running. And you could just give up because it doesn’t feel like you’re worthy anymore. And you see this with celebrities that they have so much success, but they almost self sabotage because it seems easy. they’ve forgotten all the effort that they’ve taken to put themselves in that position.
Tom Trush [36:45]
Yeah, that’s exactly it. You’re so right on on that, David. Ironically, last week, I was talking to a client, and he was saying like he does really, really well. And the whole self sabotage thing, he had a situation where he he had two meetings set up to meetings that he knew he was going to close and do a really good job on, it wasn’t gonna take a whole lot of effort. he purposely went into those meetings late, a little bit late now, he could have easily been on time, but he told himself, you know, I’m going to show up a little late, it was almost like he needed to create that, that adversity, you know, that challenge just to create, to do something different to like, again, put back like even a bigger challenge in front of him just because he got so used to the routine. And that it was, you know, he knew he’d be able to close these two people pretty easily that he needed that obstacle, and the whole self sabotage. I mean, that’s something that comes up all the time. So that’s a really good point, David.
David Ralph [37:43]
Now, of course, we’re going to be moving on to the Sermon on the mic. But um, what I’ve wanted to do is lead up to the Steve Jobs speech now deliberately on this show, because there’s technical issues. I haven’t played any other sound clips. But I need to play this one, because it’s all about trust. It’s all about faith. It’s all about belief, Steve Jobs,
Steve Jobs [38:03]
of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards, 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leaves you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [38:38]
It really does make all the difference, doesn’t it back?
Unknown Speaker [38:41]
Oh yeah, for sure.
David Ralph [38:42]
When you listen to those kind of words are they have a close tonight, perfect marketing, because they’ve got that emotion they make you sit and reflect on your own life is that a kind of a pure spoken marketing lesson that we’ve just got?
Tom Trush [39:00]
It was because here’s like, one of the most powerful things you can do in marketing is to get people in their mind to put themselves in the position of whether whatever, whatever it is that they’re listening to, they’re watching where they’re hearing, because it’s almost like storytelling, they’re putting themselves into that story. And they’re analyzing their, their life in relation to what it is that they’re listening, or they’re watching, or they’re, they’re reading, and that makes a message much more powerful. When somebody can put themselves into your marketing into your advertising and they see themselves in it, it’s a real powerful position to be in.
David Ralph [39:39]
And so it is emotion, the thing that people are missing out on in their in their content. Because I suppose that the classic one that will I have a dream they I Have a Dream speech. Now, nobody remembers any of that, or I don’t know anybody who remembers it. Other than the I Have a Dream. That’s the bit that connects.
Tom Trush [39:59]
Yeah, mostly is the key. People make decisions based on emotion, and then back it up with logic. That’s something you hear all the time and in marketing and, you know, facts and figures. That’s all logic stuff. But when you get into things like storytelling, that’s when you can really tap emotion, you can kind of slide underneath that, that marketing radar. Because again, it’s it’s super powerful. When when somebody can read your stuff, or watch yourself, listen to yourself, and they see themselves in it. Because it creates that memorable experience. And I mentioned this the word out a couple times. But storytelling is one of those things. So look at your marketing Yo, the I Have a Dream speech. You know, that is it’s a story. You know, Martin Luther King was telling his dream. So people can relate to that. And so that’s what you want to do with your marketing and think about think about stories, like what stories can you tell, because people with the story, they’re naturally going to put themselves into it, it’s natural, it’s a natural way the mind has been created to remember stories, it’s just one of those things that have naturally happened. It’s the way we’ve communicated. Since the video, the dawn of time, is through stories, because they’re really easy to remember. So that’s one of those things you can really, you know, work into your marketing in it, and it’ll help you out quite a bit. Right. So
David Ralph [41:18]
before we move you to the end, which is the Sermon on the mic, what what sort of for let’s go with four key things about a newbie, no, everyone wouldn’t we wouldn’t even say newbies, but somebody can look at their marketing and go, it takes us off, it takes five or four things, can you give us to stop?
Tom Trush [41:37]
Yeah, let’s see. Okay, first thing we talked about at the beginning is conversational, you know, really look at your marketing as a conversation of face to face conversation, if you wouldn’t say something in a face to face conversation in the same exact manner. Don’t say it in your marketing. You know, we go back to our English teachers who tell us, you know, to have like these really long words, because they make you sound smart. And that’s just not the case. You know, with with effective marketing, what we just talked about here a minute ago, the emotions, you know, figure out ways that you can really work into work emotions into your marketing. that’s a that’s a huge thing. And storytelling is one of those easy ways to do that. Let me see a third thing. I say a third thing, you know, again, we talked about this before is ask for the sale, your your marketing, it’s great to deliver education into your help your prospects, at some point, you do have to ask for the sale. And you have to repeatedly asked for the sale, and you have to follow up to get that sale. So that’s a key thing that gets forgotten that you have to do, the problem I think a lot of people run into is they they focus on the sale too early, they haven’t delivered enough value first before getting to the sale. And then the fourth thing, this is something we didn’t talk about, but it is critical. In all your marketing, you hear about the real short attention spans. So in your marketing, you want to grab attention in interest super early, like that first sentence, this is kind of like a personal mission I’ve been on, you know, with clients is I want you to look at any marketing piece, I want you to look at that first sentence, if that first sentence doesn’t grab you, and cause you, you know, give you a desire to continue reading, then you’ve done something wrong. How many times do you go like, say to a website, and the first sentence will say hello, and welcome to the website for ABC Company. Yep. There’s nothing appealing about that. And are you open up an email and it says, Hi, David, I hope you’re having a great day. Again, there’s nothing appealing about that there’s nothing different. So right from the first sentence, you want to grab that interest, you want to say something different. So like my last book that it was titled escape the expecting this whole idea of in your marketing, you want to go beyond what people are expecting. So if they’re expecting you to open up an email and just says something like, hey, David, I hope you having a really great day. And then you get into what it is that you’re asked for in the email, you got to do something that’s completely different. Don’t start that way, like from that first sentence, deliver something that’s unexpected, so that you pique the curiosity and get them deeper into your marketing piece. So so the, you know, the four things that I would say right off the top my head,
David Ralph [44:31]
and somebody said to me, if I was going to add a fifth one into this, don’t keep the good stuff to the end, get it right to the prom, people haven’t got the attention span, certainly important on video marketing, but it would apply as well in written form, I imagine. Amen.
Tom Trush [44:45]
You’re exactly right, David.
David Ralph [44:47]
Yeah, look at me, look at me, I know these things, right? Well, what I’m going to do now I’m going to bring you to the end of the show. And this is the part that we call the Sermon on the mic. Now, last time he was on the show’s back on episode seven, you would have gone back and spoken to your younger self, but this time, I’m going to play the music. And when it fades, Tom, you’re going to be speaking to the person of five years ago. So this is the sermon of the mic. Let’s see what you say.
Tom Trush [45:39]
Alright, so something that is very key that I have learned in the last time that I’ve been on the show is, you really want to if you’ve got something that you want to get done, you know, a goal and objective whatever it is, I know that this is shared a lot in business, even school, but you have to find somebody who’s doing what you want to do. And then hire them, you know, hire them as a coach, figure it out, because it takes so much time to figure things out on your own and you go through so much unnecessary struggle. So look for somebody who has achieved what you want to achieve. And don’t be hesitant to hire them as a coach or to pay for your advice. Don’t ask to pick their brain and look for free information. Because if you’re just looking for free information, it’s very unlikely that you’re going to apply it. So you have to you have to have some skin in the game. So that’s something that I would greatly encourage people to do is to look for people who have achieved what you want to achieve reach out to them because people especially in successful at successful levels, they realize they haven’t gotten their own loan. They received help. So we go back to what David what you mentioned earlier, the the law of reciprocity. They’re looking to return the favor. The people at the highest levels of success, they often are willing to share ideas, strategies, whatever it is that got them to that next level. So reach out, don’t be afraid to do it. It’s going to shortcut the time that it takes to reach your desired end objective. And I just wish I would have done that sooner. Now
David Ralph [47:32]
great advice to everyone listening. Now Tom, what is the best way that our audience can connect with you?
Tom Trush [47:38]
So the easiest way is the my website, right waste solutions. com and that’s w ri te for right as in your writing outwards. So right waste solutions.com.
David Ralph [47:50]
Thank you so much for spending time with us today, joining up those dots. And please come back again, when you’ve got even more dots to join up. Because I do believe that by joining the dots and connecting up is the best way to build our futures. Tom, thank you so much.
Tom Trush [48:04]
Thank you, David. I really appreciate time. This is fun.
David Ralph [48:09]
Yes, that was Tom trash. Yeah, we had some huge difficulties, huge sort of delay between where he was and I was there. So there wasn’t a lot of me chipping in on that one by them. Good. Good advice. Good advice. Tom knows the stuff in marketing, because he’s been in it. And the key lessons to that is, if you want to do anything, then look at what somebody else is already doing. And I’ve mentioned this so many times in join up dots, but you don’t have to sit, Nick, I’d like to do this and create it yourself. Because it’s gonna be pretty hard, I think to find something that somebody else hasn’t done before in a in a kind of might be a slightly different format. But you can get onto their website, you can click on things, you can download emails, you can look at it all the evidence is where and if you want to be an marketer, Ben certainly go over to Tom trashes website and and see what he’s doing. Until next time, thank you so much for being here. We are running a another master class business master class if you want to start earning online and on the Wednesday the 21st of may 2019. We do change it we run it once a month. But you can always come over to the website and book yourself a free place and I will show you how you can make a multiple six figure income online in just a few stress free hours per week. Until next time, thank you so much for being here. That was David Ralph. And that was Tom trash. And that is join up dots. See ya. Bye bye.
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you are wants to become so he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to join up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on join up dots.