Linda Brogan Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast
To subscribe to the podcast, please use the links below:
Introducing Linda Brogan
She is a lady with a fascinating story of personal acceptance, and battling other peoples personal perceptions of her.
She is a Manchester born, award winning playwright, director, who is driven to get her words onto the page to provoke thought, view point, and change.
Her plays capture the unspoken complexities of human relationships – the things we say, the things we hide, the secrets that shape us – in a way that few contemporary dramatists manage. Immensely subtle and beautifully observed, her work gives voice to unforgettable characters and leaves us mysteriously changed.
Now growing up as mixed-race teenager in Moss Side, Manchester in the seventies was quite an experience.
If you dont know the reputation of Moss Side, then it would be fair to say that it is known as a tough, working class environment, with back in the seventies, very few opportunities to grow into a person different from your peers.
But our guest had other ideas, and was determined to break free and do as we say something different.
But the fascinating moment, or should we call it a Big dot moment seems to me to be the realisation that it was good to be different.
It was ok to say “I am what I am” and I am happy to be different.
How The Dots Joined Up For Linda
As she says “Because my dad came from the hills in Jamaica – a proper country guy. It makes me really proud that my dad came here as an immigrant, my mum came from Ireland as an immigrant, and in one generation they made a playwright, and next they made an actress. So I feel historically wonderful!
So was this reinvention of themselves, the inspiration for her to create a bigger and bolder version of herself?
As in 1999, when before our guest hadn’t written a play before, she took the North West Playwrights’ course and won the 2001 Alfred Fagon Award for her The Well, followed by an attachment at the National Theatre Studio in 2002.
Or was, the big dot moment when in rehearsal for a play she stood up to her director and said “‘You ask the secondary white actors what they think — you tell the main character, black actors what to think. bu never me” receiving the response “You are barred and if you try to come back in the police will remove you.’ ?
Well let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Linda Brogan.
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Linda Brogan such as:
Why she feels its so important to get the lost stories of past generations out into the world again. She wants to allow voices to be heard so will build a platform for them to do so.
Why Linda now knows that she has her biggest battle to fight, by smashing that glass ceiling in her life, breaking down those issues with money, finance, and ambition.
Why the UK has such a negative outlook in regards to achievement compared to our counterparts across the pond.
How it is so important to stop every now and again to ask yourself if life is going the way that you want it to be. Nobody else can do this for you so take time to assess.
How To Connect With Linda Brogan
You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here – enjoy
Full Transcription Of Linda Brogan Interview
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK, David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:33]
Yes, hello everybody and welcome to Join Up Dots. If you listen to Episode 600 yesterday, you will have heard we had some technical issues and things were going a little bit a little bit pants really, as we say in the United Kingdom or a little bit pear shaped to say at least, today’s episode is even worse, and I don’t have any idea what’s happening. But hopefully I’m coming through loud and clear and hopefully the guest is as well but we won’t know till the end of the show. So fingers crossed. It’s gonna sound good for you. But I blame Skype. I blame Skype. But it’s all part of life’s rich tapestry that forces us to find a way through every issue. And I suppose it’s a good metaphor for today’s guests as well, because she’s a lady with a fascinating story of personal acceptance and battling other people’s personal perceptions of her she’s Manchester born, award winning playwright director who’s driven to get her words onto the page to provoke thought viewpoint and change her plays capture the unspoken complexities of human relationships, the things we say the things we hide the secrets that shape us in a way that few contemporary dramatists manage immensely subtle and beautifully observed. Work gives voice to unforgettable characters and leaves us mysteriously chained now growing up as a mixed race teenager in Merseyside, Manchester in the 70s was quite an experience. Now if you don’t know the reputation of muscle, I bet it’d be fair to say, but it’s known as a tough working class environment which back in the 70s very few opportunities to grow into a person different from your peers. But our guest had other ideas and was determined to break free and do as we say something different. But a fascinating moment or should be called it a big moment seems to me to be the realisation that it was good to be different. It was okay to say, I am what I am and I’m happy to be different. And she says, because my dad came from the hills in Jamaica, proper country guy. It makes me really proud that my dad came here as an immigrant. My mom came from Ireland as an immigrant. And in one generation, they made a playboy and next they made an actress. So I feel historically wonderful, great stuff. So was this reinvention of themselves the inspiration for her to create a bigger and bolder version of herself, as in 1999? When before our guest hadn’t written a play before, she took the Northwest playwrights course and won the 2001 Alfred Fagan Award for her play the well followed by an attachment at the National Theatre studio in 2002. Or was the big moment wedding rehearsals for a play. She stood up to a director and said you asked the secretary why actors What I think you tell the main character black actors what to think, but never me receiving the response, you are barred and if you try to come back, the police will remove you dramatic stuff. Well, let’s find out the answers to all these questions as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Linda Brogan. Good morning to you, Linda. How are you?
Linda Brogan [3:23]
I’m fabulous. Wow, you’ve done your homework.
David Ralph [3:27]
Yet got to I haven’t yet got to when I’ve got a special person like you on the show. I do have around I delve around and find stuff and it is it’s one of those stories actually, that becomes more interesting. You’re like a kind of Manchester onion. I peeled and then I went deeper and I peeled again. And I found some juicy stuff there.
Linda Brogan [3:46]
Wow, he did.
David Ralph [3:49]
When you listen to that introduction, does that sound like you or does that sound like a kind of, you know, this superhero version of you?
Linda Brogan [3:58]
It sounds like this. superhero version of me but it definitely sounds like me is was that rewarding to listen to? To be honest with you? It’s kind of you forget about yourself though, you know cuz you’re always in this moment. You forget about what you’ve actually done. I love the bit about my mom and dad.
David Ralph [4:16]
Well, it was interesting that because that took the whole show, but I thought I was gonna go with in a different direction because fair there was a reinvention wasn’t there back in the 50s when people were coming in from Jamaica into the United Kingdom, without a job without a home and having to sort of fight their way through that remembering your dad, right as a little girl? Was he somebody with sort of hustle muscle to make things happen?
Linda Brogan [4:44]
No, absolutely not. No, he was utterly charming and really handsome. But No, he didn’t. My mom did though. My mom, my mom could have in my day, born in my time my mom could definitely have been something you know, she definitely has hustle and bustle and a real political mind.
David Ralph [5:05]
Why did she have that? Was that part of her sort of generation? Oh, her upbringing, or do you think she just sort of had that inner?
Linda Brogan [5:13]
I think it’s, you know, a lot of Irish women are like that. I think it’s from kind of like, being oppressed this Irish people, and the whole idea of, you know, like the uprisings and things like that, and the IRA and things. I think they pride themselves on it, or no, and she was really educated without actually being educated. She read everything she really wanted to know. And she really had to fight an absolute fiery temper about injustice, and stuff like that. Yeah.
David Ralph [5:43]
Why then did you kind of go through the non conventional path if you’ve got your dad on one side, but is handsome, but sort of lack of hustle and on the other side, you’ve got your mum who’s got a fiery sort of moments in her and wanted to sort of educate What made you go sort of more on your mom’s side and your dad’s?
Linda Brogan [6:03]
Cuz my Mum and Dad, I’m the firstborn to my mom and dad, and they were completely an absolutely in love. And I was part of their love, I’m getting upset. I was part of their love. And they wanted me to do well. So I was kind of hot towels in the 50s. You know, I was given gorgeous clothes. I was kind of my mom would teach me to read, I could read from about three and that’s the newspaper and read that you couldn’t read or write would teach me numbers. So we’d like come in from work and say, What three times a day and I’d say 24 and I just prided myself on doing well because they took so much pride in it.
David Ralph [6:43]
Your background vo you. You know, Merseyside in the 70s was rough. There was no getting away from it. I don’t know what it’s like now. Maybe it’s changed a lot with has it changed is a sort of more positive atmosphere than maybe 20 years ago.
Linda Brogan [7:03]
Twin, no knowing yes, no, it’s I don’t know. I don’t know how to answer that is kind of dead now when I lived in my side and only live on the other side of the park from people kind of like the gentrified part. But when I lived in Masada was a really sick community. Like, you know, in the school holidays, there was kids out on the street and mom’s on the doorstep and you know, and all of that’s gone. So I don’t know what it’s doing now. You know, I mean, it just looks empty. And, and really kind of like underdeveloped and Oakley to be honest with you, because you used to be full of first time buyer homes, you know, you bought a house to do better. But now those type of buyers buy houses, you know, they buy flats, don’t they? They buy newly built flats, you know, and things are so nobody kind of no new blood ever goes in. So it looks kinda like peeling paint all the time.
David Ralph [7:59]
I’ve been in United Kingdom Oh, there’s a lot about that. Certainly, as you say, a lack of kids sort of riding around. I live in a very sort of nice area where you would think that it should be full of kids going around in little gangs on their bikes like we did in the 70s. But you sort of rarely see them life has changed somewhat to kind of endorse us, isn’t it?
Linda Brogan [8:19]
No, absolutely. It’s a kind of word. Everything feels like about feel. Do you know the film Wally? I think it’s called Yeah, it feel like that everything feels like that, you know, like empty.
David Ralph [8:32]
When you start writing, obviously, you are tapping in on your own personal experience, but making it into something that is sort of life affirming for for the the viewers for the audience. Where do you find your experiences? Because it seems that you haven’t got a lot going around you at the moment. So is it all from your own sort of fantasy mind? Is it from your back catalogue, Vegas experiences
Linda Brogan [8:59]
well, I mean, it seems like a lot going on around me at the moment. Well,
David Ralph [9:03]
as you say, you live on one side of my side where it used to have sort of full of characters and sort of vibrancy, but now it’s sort of a quieter version of it. And life is generally like that you don’t see as much, you know, community as you used to. So when you’re building up your, your personalities for your stories and your plays, where do you get your inspiration from?
Linda Brogan [9:27]
Up until this point from inside yourself, which really were because what you’re talking about now actually leads into the project that I’m going to do because what I’m going to do is capture those voices that are missing. You know, like so get people to tell their own story instead of me tell the story and try and create that community and remember the community that was there.
David Ralph [9:50]
And how are you going to do that, Linda, how you’re going to get people to actually tell their their inner thoughts.
Linda Brogan [9:57]
I’m going to build a website. And on that website is going to be a club that I used to go to as a teenager called the Reno right. And inside Reno as we prefer to be called was wall to wall half cast. Right and when I was a teenager, so I’m going to get all of us to tell our story, but how I’m going to do it is I’m going to love their stories to the story that I’ve already prepared. So in 1971, I’ve called it the rise of the flat jack is when all the marks that was in the club, kind of like they believed in Bruce Lee and Buddhism and things like that and power and that so in order to have that kind of uniform, they all wore flak jackets, you know, khaki flak jackets. So there’s a whole time in 1971 to 1976 that I don’t know about when the doll just be in there doing well milking and things like that, you know, like to like live their lifestyle, smoking weed to kind of be In a mad way, live an entrepreneurial lifestyle where you kind of do what you want to do, and you don’t do what society wants you to do. Yeah. And then in 1976, when I’m 16, there’s a whole bunch of girls go down. So I’ve called that period, women’s lib. Then in 1979, when the whole world was changing, you know, like into greed in that there’s a bunch of lots who were the next generation and instead of like, just going around, like doing mortgages and things like that, they actually went out with a sawn off shotgun and held up the first Astor’s and they came back wearing Safari jackets. So have called that the rise of the safari jacket, and then in 1981, because of two separate affairs, right one core civil war, and a safari to someone who was with a Flak Jacket had an affair with a safari jacket, a girl, and then one of the safari jackets want to cheat him hell to another gang can identify With one of his skills, and that caused all out war, gang war, and it made the Reno uninhabitable.
David Ralph [12:09]
And this is all fascinating. So then let’s sort of take it onto an entrepreneurial bent because that’s what the show is all about. Yeah, this is this is a big body of work you’re doing. Is it just for something to do? Is it going to provide income? Or is it going to allow you to sort of open doors to other ventures? What’s the reason for doing this?
Linda Brogan [12:29]
Well, there’s a few reasons. Really. Yeah, it will definitely open doors, you know, like, I’ve had to raise about 150,000 pound in order to do it because I’m not stopping there. When I’ve got all the stories. I’m going to actually excavate the Reno with them Salford archaeological department, so kinda like hoping to build at the stories over 16 weeks like a kind of like a big drama on Netflix except for the audience that are watching our story or listening comments. In on it, you know, and then at the end of all that is going to be like, wow, what will they find? Because inside of inside of that building was a really really strict code of conduct, you know, as well it was an entire civilization of its own. So yeah, from that, I’m good. I hope to do bigger things and make more money. You know, because I make about 10% of it for myself, but also right. I want those voices to be heard because in the in the arts will try 99% of all Commission’s and also in the archaeological world. 99% of all Mooney asked for by Heritage Lottery formed is asked for by white people, especially middle class white people. So I kind of like want to put it in other people’s heads that’s like me that you can do the life that I do that you can be an artist that you can write that you can raise money. You can do all the things.
David Ralph [14:02]
And that, obviously is the message of Join Up Dots. But literally you make decisions and those decisions are sometimes right sometimes wrong, but you work towards something. Our last guest was calling it relaxed focus, where you follow one course until success, but you don’t beat yourself up on the way when something goes wrong. Are you a great person for sort of letting things float? Or do you go, Oh, my God, pick up a bat and smash yourself around a bit when things aren’t going right.
Linda Brogan [14:31]
And I’m a great person for letting things float to be honest with you. I have a really rigid plan. And I know what I want, but I’ve learned this over the time. I didn’t just kind of wake up and know this. But if you don’t go to plan like yesterday was horrible. Everything went wrong from 10 o’clock from the first phone call. It was just wrong. And then by about three o’clock I just saw just Larry go, just go and buy some chocolate and watch Telly
David Ralph [15:00]
Yeah, I’m having a day like that at the moment to be honest. And it’s it does build up your, I don’t know your experience to know that you can get around things. I’ve that’s what I learned. I think in today’s day, if I’d had this in the first 50 shows, I think it could have been a game changer because I was thinking, Oh, you know, I just can’t get around it. Now you realise two things, one, quality doesn’t have to be absolutely astonishing, every single time. It’s your best foot forward. That’s what the world needs. And secondly, it’s okay, isn’t it to just sort of have things out there things that aren’t perfect things that are just, you know, they’re to be listened to is not going to change anyone’s life. If a podcast doesn’t get crystal clear quality audio is not going to change anyone’s life. If a critic slacks off a play that you have written, it’s just part of life and pushing you forward to better things, I suppose.
Linda Brogan [15:58]
Well, it’s not about that. You know why? When early quitting who said give me bad reviews, it wasn’t just like, I wanted to kill myself. It was it was, it was horrendous was a nice feeling absolutely to begin with what? Like one of me plays got to start in the times and I was ready to kill myself was ready to jump on a train. And, but what I’ve come to realise is, it’s not about that it’s not about pleasing them people, it’s about what you genuinely want to do, and why you genuinely want to do it. You know, like you keep playing like a thing from Oprah, about, you know, stopping and asking yourself why. And it’s about that, like yesterday, it was kind of like it was all going wrong, every minute after every minute. And the reason for the chocolate and the telly was just so I could sit down and just ask myself why. And when you go through that moment of asking yourself why it’s about a plateau in it. You just sit on the plateau and sit completely Till you can’t do anything else, and then like today, I’m having a beautiful day I feel really calm. Whereas yesterday morning, I wasn’t feeling calm anyway.
David Ralph [17:12]
Well, let’s bring Oprah on because you’ve led us to her. So let’s hear from her again. Here’s Oprah
Oprah Winfrey [17:17]
the way through the challenge is to get still and ask yourself, what is the next right move? not think about, Oh, I got all of this stuff. What is the next right move? And then from that space, make the next right move, and the next right move and not to be overwhelmed by it. Because you know, your life is bigger than that one moment, you know, you’re not defined by what somebody says, is a failure for you. Because failure is just there to point you in a different direction.
David Ralph [17:49]
Now, you kind of agree with those words more once you’ve been on the journey yourself. So if I played this to the 16 year old or, or the one that had just got that those two star review From the times, would you have bought into those words? Or do you, as I say, need to sort of move to there, yourself.
Linda Brogan [18:07]
You need to move to today yourself, you need to move to everything yourself at all, it’s all part of the journey. And I’d like to correct something that was set up the beginning in the beginning thing, and I’d like to talk about this as well, is that when the director, I wasn’t sort of saying to the director that she won’t talk to me like that, what I was observing and what kind of like drives me in my right in is that my colour and my background is an impediment to you know, it’s, it’s an it’s been an impediment to me, and it’s an impediment to people like me, and it’s not what you see on the outside, it’s what’s inside of you, historically, you know, we colonialism and all that, and what I actually said to the director, and what really adds to me An entrepreneur really and one in no more gatekeepers and wanting control of my own life and to become a producer is I was at wrote a play about. Well, we supposedly wrote a play together about two black twins, called speechless about a really, really famous documentary where in 1981, two young black girls burn the school down. It was empty. Like, because they really let mutes because they couldn’t assimilate into you know, the English way of life. So, Polly, who’s why a middle class wanted to write a play about them. Are you still there? David?
David Ralph [19:42]
Yeah, I’m still here. I’m listening to you.
Linda Brogan [19:44]
Yeah, yeah. I’m not used to people just being quiet when you talk. So um, yeah. But why it kind of all was part of as well was, What what? What she actually wanted was to tick boxes to get money from the Arts Council. Cuz it’s a big fat, you know, like, oh, let’s help the poor black people, you know what I mean like to do well in the life, I kind of like assimilate it in my mind with slavery and missionaries. So anyway at this to my shame, I had no money. So, you know, like so she asked me to do this play with this away agreed to do this play with her. Right? For every moment of the day, her her white middle class, higher white middle class status, and my lowly black status. We’re fitting into the patterns that historical patterns have no matter what if you told me to run into the road and get run over part of my stupid black self would have run into the road and got run over just because that’s what mistress asked me to do. You know? So, yeah, so by the time anyway, that we’d come to rehearsal, and I was kind of feeling politicised inside but scared and more scared. Knowing that it was happening because at one point when she’d come to me flat to first asked me to do the play with her, and I sat at a table and I watched myself right, watch her eat all the white chicken, me and me all the brown chicken me. And even though logically my mind knows it, when your mind set set a certain way, it just does what’s expected of it. So we get to rehearsal, right? So I’m starting rehearsal. And bearing in mind, this plays about two black girls who were mute because he can’t assimilate, played by two modern black girls. Right. So we’re so in rehearsal, and I’m watching Polly, and I’m thinking, I’m sure, right, that she is asking the two very secondary, white characters a white psychometrist and the white boyfriend do as five minutes in the play what they think, but I’m sure that she’s telling the black cutters what to think. So I sat through it for a week, right? And on the Saturday, you know, not sure if I was seeing what I was seeing. And on the Saturday, I sent her an email, you know, saying this is what I think is happening, right? As I would feel it out to do, but I was also really, really scared. This is absolutely what sets me off on this journey. You know, you’re your worst moment because you’re your best. Oh, yeah. So I sent this email. So the next day I got this like to read back. I’ve been up all night you’ve said I’m a racist I’ve been upon I’ve been crying and whatever. And that’s not what I said at all. But if it is what I’m saying, right, we’re in a play in a rehearsal this need to dress into make the plays the best that the play can be. Right and I’ve got the right to say the things. I didn’t think that then she No, I mean like, but I do think that now six years later, So, To cut a long story short of her, the person that she runs the company with got back in touch. We had a conversation about it because I didn’t answer. So we had a conversation within the conversation that her partner says, well, you’re not exactly aggressive, classic racism. Right? That’s on Sunday, on Monday, right? And I’ve not still not said anything, because I don’t know how to answer him. I haven’t got the courage or the confidence, you know, to say, I think I’m right. And we have I don’t even know how to process to say, I think we need to talk about this. So on the Monday, I get an email that says, Linda, you do not speak in rehearsal, right. Bearing in mind, I’ve wrote this play, right. Do you not speak in rehearsal? You can speak to Polly for 20 minutes when she’s had her dinner, right when you show that she’s he and he To speak to for 20 minutes before she goes home. Right? So I wrote back an email and I said, You do realise that this place called speechless right is about two young black girls who were made speechless right. You making them speechless the two modern black actresses speechless. And me speechless. A few hours later the producer gets back on board, right get their producer not them to rings me up and says Linda, do not come to rehearsal tomorrow. And if you do, the police will remove you.
David Ralph [24:34]
is still very rude to you this isn’t it even many years ago, this was
Unknown Speaker [24:39]
this is six years ago.
David Ralph [24:42]
And when you look at this six years down the line, this as you know, we mentioned this is a big moment. This is sort of layer to where you are. Do you thank God for that? Do you thank God but you went through vow but your path has gone in a different direction because of it?
Linda Brogan [24:57]
What happened in that moment? Nothing. That was what was scaring me. You know, like in the back in the back of your mind, he’s sort of scared of something, aren’t you and you can’t put your finger on it. And I was scared of like saying the wrong thing and something bad happening to me because they are more powerful than me. But now it has happened to know. I mean, like I said something, what I felt entitled to say, and what I thought would happen happened to know so that they absolutely politicised me after that. I’ve just started noticing things all over the place. Like I was watching. I read in The Guardian, and on the front of the Guardian is three dead Iraqi babies wants to talk with three two about the agfa and the dad is like brokenhearted, you know crying over them and remind you saw, there’s no way on earth anywhere in the world that they would put three blonde dead babies on the front of anything. It will be seen as so distasteful, you know. And then the next thing was I was watching. I was reading I found authentic slave narrative because now I’ve become like hell bent on you know, knowing more. So I found it authentic slave narratives. So about 1000 pages in I keep calling him Jacob de green and I know someone is going to correct me soon enough. This slave apologises for stealing a horse to escape. Right. And that again, rang bells like you know, like if it was a white guy escaping the prisoner a Japanese prisoner of war camp. Yeah, same self as a hero wouldn’t a shin is nowhere on Earth, he’d apologise for stealing the horse, you know?
Unknown Speaker [26:48]
David Ralph [26:50]
It’s still out there. Racism is still out there and is your item never read one of your books and I’ve never seen one of your plays. I’ve only gone by the sort of feedback. I’ve seen on the web, is this a theme that runs through all of them, because he obviously is a big passion for you. And he has led your life in a certain way.
Linda Brogan [27:11]
It isn’t innocently, innocently. But it isn’t not in the other ones. And it won’t be From now on, it sounds like I’m passionate about it. But what I’m passionate about is having the opportunity to do as well as everybody else. What I’m passionate about is crossing that bridge. And that’s weird because the Selma bridge will have to set but that I’m passionate about having the same rights. You know, I mean, and that’s nothing to do with white people stopping me from having that right, is to do with smashing that mindset inside myself. And smashing that glass ceiling in seats inside of me that I’m bothered about and therefore telling other people it’s inside of you. It no longer matters what they think or doesn’t think that damage is done you have to get over it inside of yourself.
David Ralph [28:04]
Now I agree with this totally and this is it’s the big job that we all have to go through isn’t it to actually become the bigger and bolder version of ourselves and when you start and you do your first play or you did wrote your first book you would have thought that’s the best thing ever. But then you look back on it you think oh, it’s probably a bit naive I could have done better and stuff. Because you just grow into a you know, the bigger and bolder version of yourself and how on that journey from not being absolutely your starting point to 10 being your perfect version. Where would you score yourself through the work that you’ve done so far?
Linda Brogan [28:43]
And this I was thinking about this today because I heard you ask it to somebody else. There’s loads of different versions of this. On on in my artistic self in me Lion Heart self of I will do whatever I want to do not that I Donate just in the thought of I will do whatever I want to do, I would say eight, right? But in the version of myself like that, it’s like, going to do a beautiful piece of work. I would say four. And then in the business sense, I would say one.
David Ralph [29:18]
That that is the battle, isn’t it to take care that you are passionate about that is creative and actually turn into a business. We see it time and time again that people produce content. A classic example is podcasting. Not many people can make a full time living out of podcasting because it’s the business side which is the struggle
Linda Brogan [29:38]
Yeah, yeah, it’s getting me teeth around that one. But again, yesterday taught me something about that just about sitting still, you know, sitting still and thinking about why am I doing this is it is it Tony Robbins here? He talks about that as well. You’ve got to go back to the why. Do you know what else I’m a great believer in now though, David, and I Johnson was his coaching
David Ralph [30:04]
Why did you not because it’s the fast track, isn’t it with coaching that you can tap into somebody who’s been there before?
Linda Brogan [30:12]
No, it wasn’t it’s cut right? This sounds terrible. This is racist in itself. But it’s sort of American. We’re both English, you know, aren’t we an English people have kind of got like, a basically quite a negative mindset, just as an everyday thing, you know, like the minute you say the weather, you don’t say, Oh, it’s a sunny day, you know, I mean, you don’t expect it to last. So it was kind of like making that jump from unnatural negative stance to a positive stance that took me about two years beginning with reading the secret genome part of me kind of like believing everything, you know, you can have what you want and visualisation. And then another part of me like, Oh, this is a loaded shit. Show, you know, I mean, like, it’s it saw
David Ralph [30:59]
the It’s a funny old thing that you’re absolutely spot on because as English and you know, I’ve watched the secret several times I’ve read the book, I’ve spoken to jack Canfield and I kind of I’m 5050 and I think I have that real positive get going mentality, but deep rooted, I have my probably my upbringing or just go out there get a job and be happy you know, just just get a mortgage get a house and then be happy and it’s just a kind of be happy is as good as you can get. And when I speak to the Americans and the Americans are fantastic for this they do seem to just believe I suppose the American Dream if they believe that everything is possible and it’s their right to go out and get it. But the English we do settle down we we just kind of Yeah, we’re we’re like, walking around going, you know, oh, well, at least it’s not raining today. We’re just kind of a bit Whoa, hum, reply family.
Linda Brogan [31:58]
Do you know what that is? So David, that’s not That’s not as innocent as that looks. That’s right. That’s classism though, isn’t it? Because, you know, like, when I don’t know how old you are, I’m 57 when we was watching Telly, or radio or anything like that, when we were kids, everybody had a co op voice Received Pronunciation. Yes, yeah, our x and our x and would have been absolutely unheard of. anywhere on the air. I prefer accents, you know, and it’s kind of like that they were allowed, but we weren’t allowed. You know, we really weren’t factory fodder.
David Ralph [32:36]
I don’t think that’s true that we were factory for fodder. But I do think that we, we were kind of almost taught to know our place. I don’t believe that we were taught to go in, you know, and be manual labour. I’d be the world’s worst man, manual labour. I really would. I I’ve got lovely soft hands from working for 30 years in an office, you know, but I do think that we were taught Not to go for it. We were taught to settle. That’s the word I’m looking for. It’s the word of settlement. And now I say to everyone don’t settle, you know, just go out there and shake it up and see what happens because there’s an amazing life out there. And there’s amazing people to talk to, and there’s experiences on every corner. You don’t just have to go to work. I mean, get into your car, listening to your radio, and then spend your night on the sofa. You can go off and do stuff and meet people and it’s a shame that people settle. That’s that’s my swear word of the day settlement.
Linda Brogan [33:35]
Absolutely. But you know, when you do think positive, you can do it when I decided to be a writer when I was 30. Right. And I used to tell everybody, my first play will go on at the Royal core, and everybody used to laugh at me. It was just so ridiculous that you know what happened? That happened?
David Ralph [33:54]
But did you make it happen because you know, linking back to the secret where you focus on stuff something and you visualise and you work towards it. And that’s the bit that’s non hokey for me about the law of attraction. It’s the cause and effect. If I decide that I want to create a podcast and release 600 episodes, it’s down to me to do it. And at the end of the day, it may look like it’s appeared by magic, but it’s by all those little things. So you sent out your intention, you wrote your play, you had something to present to the theatre, that, you know, that isn’t magic, is it? That is just how life operates. And that’s how people should believe it’s not just because it’s luck. It’s not that it happens to other people, not to you, it can happen to anyone, but you got to take the steps.
Linda Brogan [34:40]
Absolutely. That was like, I spent about six years writing my first play. And that wasn’t actually right in the play. It was a learning I went, I learn, I learned I learned I went anywhere that I could learn. Absolutely, you know, like, free classes, classes that I might spend a couple of quid on. places that I want to go to classes. But also what I absolutely knew, though, as well was, I wasn’t going to do anything before that play went to the Royal call. So I didn’t want any little shitty things in my name. I just wanted that.
David Ralph [35:16]
Why this is the big message for this episode out to the listeners. So what Linda did she once again, she decided she wasn’t going to settle. She chose what she wanted. She worked towards it. And she wasn’t going to dilute that vision. She wasn’t going to go, Oh, it’s alright. I do it as a score play that’s still successful. You wanted it at the Royal Court and you work towards it. Now if you had dreamt even bigger. There’s no reason that you couldn’t have it. I don’t know what the next biggest fear to is, say the London Palladium. That’s a big one in my head. You could work towards it. You would just channel your energies to make that occur.
Linda Brogan [35:54]
Yeah, but yeah, I’ll tell you what else I did. I also always ways for it to be published by metha when I’m not play went to the world court which to me in I don’t know why I did the royal court is the highest Pinnacle Theatre in England. But it was to me and also it is published by methylene.
David Ralph [36:16]
Now, if you stepped back, can you join up your dots? how this has all occurred? Can you look at it and can you see the steps?
Linda Brogan [36:26]
Can I see them steps? You know, the first thing that I did right was in 1989, I began to meditate. I’ve learned four techniques of meditation from Prem rawa. And since 1989, I’ve meditated every single day for an hour in the morning, after me, after a cup of tea, that’s the first thing I do every single day. So that’s what that’s one of them.
David Ralph [36:57]
And that takes you to Oprah. Again, being Quiet, isn’t it that that is allowing your thoughts to actually direct your life in the future. I can’t I can’t meditate. I’ve tried it a couple of times I just drop off. And then I sort of wake up and I think to myself, I don’t know if I was doing anything there. You know, it seems a bit pointless having asleep first thing in the morning when I’ve been in bed all night. But people that do it, absolutely swear blind by any once again, it’s that quietness that we all need.
Linda Brogan [37:26]
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I’m actually David, I don’t kind of believe in this world. I don’t believe the things people say on telly, or whatever. And I believe what’s in my heart, and I believe what’s in my heart is in everybody else’s heart. You know, I mean, like, so I’m interested in finding out I’m always interested in the truth. I’m always interested in seeing someone else’s heart and them seeing mind and to a great places. A great way to show someone your heart is in a play, you know, or like Come on to do on the web now is like, we’re all the same, it doesn’t matter if you’re, you know, like got 100 million pound or you’re, we’re all the same
David Ralph [38:11]
we’re not all the same, are we? Because some people are action takers and some people are watch watches and that’s the difference. So although you say we’re all the same, there’s gonna be some people that do amazing stuff. And there’s some people that do even more amazing stuff. And it all comes down to action, which, you know, I don’t know half the population haven’t got
Linda Brogan [38:32]
i don’t i don’t really agree with that because if you’ve stepped back out of the world, right, the world’s like a blue marble in the universe in it right and then there’s all these rules and you’re saying some people do this and some people you know, like some people do more, but it’s all just still part of the game. What are you what are they actually doing? You can only one dinner you can only wear one pair of knickers. Do you know what I mean? Like you can only it’s just a game that makes it kinda like harder for us. People who know I can. Yeah,
David Ralph [39:03]
yeah, but No, I don’t. I don’t agree with you, whatever, Linda, if I said to somebody, we are gonna have a fight if I said to somebody, right, okay, you need to run into that freezing cold water all times a day for the next six months for you to achieve what you want to achieve. Some people will do it, they will just do it. Even Beauvais have no logical understanding of why they’re being told to do that. They’ve got that mental strength to just believe in something bigger than themselves and go for it. Other people will dip a toe in and go that stupid I don’t see any point in that and stopping. And I think that that is the truth. I don’t quite agree, but we are all the same. I think some people have got that mental fortitude, to smash things down and go for it. Even when and we’re going to hear Steve Jobs in a moment, even when they don’t actually understand why they’re doing it. But they’ve got that faith, that belief I’ve got that human spirit to achieve something, when overwhelmed is saying, it’s not going to work. They’ve gone through it.
Linda Brogan [40:08]
Let me just ask you though, right? Why are we achieving it? Steve Jobs is a brilliant example of it really, right. He is amazing. what he’s done is amazing. The computer is amazing, right? And that we can talk to each other across the world is amazing. But there’s also a lot of negative things that go with it. And at the end of the day, all we want to do is talk to each offer and feel the same in the world.
David Ralph [40:36]
I don’t get your point. explained to me.
Linda Brogan [40:42]
Right, what I mean is right. If we was if we were sat onto the staff, right, just with a campfire at the beginning of time, right, we would just talk to each other one. We’re like, we’re talking to each other now. And we’d have dinner and we’d have a poo, and we might have sex and we might have Laugh. Those are the only things that are to be done really.
David Ralph [41:06]
I’m not going to go with this sex, the poo put me off. I’ll be honest. You should have done it in a different sequence. And that would be my perfect night out. Not gonna go there. But well, I’ll tell
Linda Brogan [41:21]
you what. It’s all I get what you’re saying. But we are all terrific rights which achieve these things. I tell you what, this is proper, awful. But wouldn’t Steve Jobs rather have his life?
David Ralph [41:34]
Yeah, he would. But would he rather have his life if he got to the point where he hadn’t achieved with him? Isn’t it about the achievement isn’t about the legacy? I imagine if Steve Jobs ended up and for whatever reason he was working in a factory for example, just to save as a job. Yeah, I don’t think he would be the same Steve Jobs, I think is that personal fire is that ambition and Talk about in this show. That is what’s defined him as a man. I think he said, You know, I don’t care about being the richest man in the cemetery, it’s my legacy or whatever he said, you know, it’s, it’s the things that he’s done. Now, when I die, I will look back with a certain amount of achievement of what I’ve achieved. Other people will look back with, you know, regrets for what they haven’t achieved. And that’s the difference.
Unknown Speaker [42:27]
That’s absolutely the difference because that’s how you know,
David Ralph [42:30]
yeah, when you’re over, why are you over? Finally, I’ve got
Linda Brogan [42:34]
100% Just give me a child, right? Hold on a minute, because one of my most scary souls ever right, is to be lying on my deathbed. with regret. That’s, that’s the most scariest thing you know, like that. I could have done more. So I totally agree with you on that line. But also, some days I think, why am I so driven, this is crazy. You know, even when I’m About four or five and it’s probably because it was hot house by mom and dad. Right when all the kids was reading like, you know, remember them chillin Jane books or something then they were red, blue and green. Right? Well when they read theirs and they’d be like getting a gold star, I’d have my eight gold stars on the board and I would physically be thinking, Oh, look at them with their one gold stamp and I’ve got eight and then I would want 23 cheater like why am I cheating? It’s kind of like I am absolutely driven to you know, like to do. Yeah, so do you know what I’m saying at all?
David Ralph [43:38]
Yeah, you’re saying I’m right, Linda. That’s all Yes. So you get away to me. I’m the host. I’m the host.
Linda Brogan [43:49]
Yeah, well, plus it. No, it definitely I do definitely I am proofing. Right. Yeah, I definitely wish there were six people stood on the edge of a lake and he said you’ve got to jump in there. And it’s free. See, I definitely wouldn’t want to be one of the ones who wouldn’t do it. Right. But I do question where that comes from, though as well.
David Ralph [44:09]
I think it’s just human spirit, I think, you know, I, I do think it’s easier to surround yourself with other people doing similar things. I think it’s easy. Once you see that it’s already possible, you know, what you’re doing. And what I’m doing has been done for sort of many, many years. So it’s easy to believe the real kind of almost mental cases are the people that do something brand new, but never been done before. Or I can’t get my mind around how they can do it by just work on a different level of belief, as Steve Jobs said, and we’re going to hear from him now is Steve Jobs.
Steve Jobs [44:42]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college, but it was very, very clear looking backwards. 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow come connecting your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [45:17]
And that’s it in a nutshell. You don’t know. But it’s going to make a difference. You’ve got to just trust in something. And if you can trust in yourself, then your three quarters there. I believe what you’re saying.
Linda Brogan [45:30]
I think you’re absolutely right on that one. You’ve got to believe in yourself. And a feat yesterday when I was having like the meltdown data and everything went wrong. That’s where we ended up prior to believe in myself. Why am I doing this? What do I want from it? And just to do the next step as our process, just take the next step.
David Ralph [45:50]
So away from the website that you’re doing, they’re sort of allowing the last voices to be heard the stories of past generations what is in your mind how How far are you gonna push what you’re doing? How big is the ambition now?
Linda Brogan [46:07]
I’m happy to say, you know what I’m really interested in. I’m interested in what I’m doing emotionally, but I’m really interested in raising money. I’m really interested in raising money to do what I want to do. So the ambition is, is to keep on say, like, I’ve just raised 150 grand to do this. It’s to raise more money. I don’t know what the artistic ambition goes with that, but it’s just to kind of like, keep doing more keep up cuz money holds me back. You know, I wouldn’t have done that play with Polly if I didn’t need money. She know. I mean, bought there again, I wouldn’t have learned the best lesson. You know. So yeah, so it’s getting over that thing of
being afraid to have money
to sell unseen uncia.
David Ralph [46:56]
Yeah, he does. Absolutely. And I think that that’s one of the big lessons. that people need to learn as well. But you know, Money makes the world go round in certain regards. And there is a ceiling. And that comes from sort of growing up as well. You see what your mom and dad earning and you kind of believe that that’s how life operates. I think I was held back for a long time by my mom and dad always being short of money. I didn’t realise I was short money when I was a kid. And we was always wearing knitted, you know, tops and stuff. And me and my brother looked like two little knitted serial killers dressed the same. And I think that the ability to take that upbringing to where you can create your own life and invest back into your business and create more income. I think that was a big ceiling I had to smash through.
Linda Brogan [47:43]
No, absolutely Me too. And also what I’m learning as well is that you know, as well it’s cross fertilisation because another thing is, I don’t want to be in the arts world anymore. I want to make Ah, right, because they’ve all got that mindset. Oh, we haven’t got enough money. You know, like, Oh, you could have like that. 13 stars over there. Instead, we’ve got like a little candle. It’s like, well, that’s not the player one ID, that’s not the player row. So it’s kind of like how do I still remain creative? Right and do our both find the institution sir Scott, monitor backup and do that cross fertilisation
David Ralph [48:18]
I think you’re going to achieve because you’ve already got the vision of in here you’ve got the vision of where you want to go. And that’s half the battle. You can create anything you can get your play into the Royal theatre, you can take it to wherever you want. It’s just knowing where you’re heading.
Linda Brogan [48:34]
Now Absolutely. I’m becoming my own producer just walking into that light of becoming too And you know what else he said surround yourself with like minded people. I’m part of them Selena Sue’s impacting millions. And that is brilliant because it’s like mostly women online. And we’re all ambitious and I’ve never been around that before where you can just be downright competitive and vicious and kind of like what I would have perceived As a teenager as greedy, you know, like and he’s kind of like no, I want to achieve these things, you know, and to achieve these things I need to make certain steps and everybody else that’s in the group are also like that. So that’s amazing. Like you said to like, you know, Napoleon Hill’s book Think and Grow Rich.
David Ralph [49:21]
Yeah, it’s in front of me here. Yeah.
Linda Brogan [49:23]
Yeah, like that, you know, you need a mastermind. So I’ve kind of like a bit of a balancing act to all times because I don’t want to get sucked into that world. I don’t want to become a coach. I don’t want to you know, like teach anybody anything. And I want to kind of like really be an artist and teach you know, like through through show and do my art. But I do want to be an entrepreneur. I do want to be a producer. I do want my hand on the purse strings. And someone else said summit grow on Marie Forleo showed you the date. If you’re not at the table, you’re on the menu, and I definitely want to be at the table.
David Ralph [50:01]
is a brilliant way to bring us to the end of the show. And this is the part of we call the Sermon on the mic when we send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the younger Linda, what advice would you give and what age would you choose? Well, we’re going to find out because I’m going to play the theme tune, and when it fades you up. This is the Sermon on the mic.
Unknown Speaker [50:28]
With the best bit of the show.
Linda Brogan [50:44]
Hi, Linda. Yeah, 830 and you’re on your way to the library. And you’ve got a red exercise book and a pen, and it’s 1989 and you’ve had enough of not achieving anything and you want to be the luckiest Boo hoo. This teaches us to take the poems out of your hand and put them on sugar paper and put them on the wall. And you are absolutely doing the right thing. In that moment go into that library to read books again and to write a city short story and to say to yourself, I will be a writer, because look what you did you really really did do it. And I’m really proud of you. Well done because it would have been just as easy that morning, not to have done it. So congratulations.
David Ralph [51:33]
Linda was the number one best way that our audience can connect with you.
Linda Brogan [51:37]
out the moment it’s through my agent Nick Quinn, and he’s at the agency ww w. The agency co.uk. And any developments about the website coming up with the Reno stories and Matt on our post on that I have a page on his website.
David Ralph [51:57]
We will have all the links on the show notes, Linda, thank you So much for being on the show today and joining up those dots. Please come back again when you have more dots to join up because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our paths is the best way to build our futures. Linda Brogan, thank you so much.
Linda Brogan [52:13]
Thank you, David. I’ll definitely be back on.
David Ralph [52:19]
And that was a Linda Brogan. Yeah, she she’s a lady that you can hear. She was so humble and so open, that she’s having to battle mental ceilings, as she’s saying not just money, but personal perceptions and career and everything. But every day she’s working through and she has a bad day. She just sits on the sofa and has some chocolate and then starts again the next day and that is the way that success is built. I enjoyed that lady, and I’m going to look forward to getting back on the show at a later day when she can share even more achievements. Thank you so much for listening to Join Up Dots. Thank you so much for being part of everything and thank you so much for making it Number one entrepreneurial show. Look after yourself. Cheers. Come on.
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you or wants to become. So he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to Join Up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on Join Up Dots.