Linda Ugelow Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast
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Introducing Linda Ugelow
Linda Ugelow is our guest today on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots free podcast interview.
She is a lady who has spent a lifetime defining her message and what she can bring to the world.
You see as a child she was on a path to being the goody goody child.
The daughter who did what was expected and chose the path of less resistance, in short other peoples paths.
But what happens when you realise that this isn’t what you should be doing, but you have absolutely no idea as to what you really should be doing.
You have trained yourself to think using other peoples thoughts.
Well our guest started to see the light when she received a less than positive grade for a paper she had written at school
How The Dots Joined Up For Linda
As she says “I grew up witnessing my two sisters getting yelled at or even having their mouths washed out with soap as punishment for being “fresh” with my parents.
Terrified by the threat of these punishments, I vowed to myself that I would never do anything that would make somebody punish me this way.
Thus began my entry into goody-goodness, ensuring that — regardless of how I actually felt — my actions would bring nothing but approval from my parents, sisters, and teachers.
It didn’t even occur to me that my own opinions matter until a college professor handed me my first C grade for a paper (as you could imagine, I was a great student — at least when it came to following directions).
He said, “I don’t want you to write how you think I want it. I want you to tell me your own ideas.”
“Own ideas, own ideas, I dont have any ideas” she cried!
And so she set off on a journey of discovery to find her talents, her skills and the things that she wanted to do with her life and now appears to be where she wants to be.
Making a life that is her own, and inspiring ladies across the world to embrace their natural self, to rock their next photo shoot, host successful webinars and other kinds of live streams, feel confident giving speeches and presentations, and communicate effectively in 1-on-1 sessions.
So how did this lady who had no idea of what she wanted to do, find the thing and then develop it into a business that is flourishing?
And can she see clearly that the clues where waiting for her all along, or does she look around and think “wow this is a surprise?”
Well let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Linda Ugelow
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Linda Ugelow such as:
Why we are all so focused on finding the weaknesses in someones life, when the quickest way for success is always focusing on the strengths.
How she finnaly knows that she has now reconnected with the child inside of her, after leaving the passions far behind her
How she can see now that she had to wait for the world of technology to catch up with where she wanted to be, where her passions could be used for good.
Why it is never too late to start going for the dream. Everything has lead you to that point whenever you start. So start again!
How To Connect With Linda Ugelow
You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here – enjoy
Full Transcription Of Linda Ugelow Interview
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK. David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:34]
Yes, hello there. Good morning, everybody. This is Join Up Dots. This is David Ralph. And I am all inspired. I’m already inspired because we’re into winter mode now in the United Kingdom. And I have a battle with my wife every single night about the heating going on and off. And today, it’s really sunny. It’s really sunny and it’s really warm. It’s very pleasant. And we are one day after the Trump Tower. Now this obviously appeals to anybody who’s listening to this moment if you’re listening to this show 20 years down the line, we may not actually be here anymore, he may have pressed a big red button and we are no longer listening to podcasts or you might have changed and made made a life is wonderful like today’s guest has made her own life. Wonderful. Now that is a good segue quite proud of myself there. Now she has spent a lifetime defining her message and what she can bring to the world. You see, as a child, she was on a path to being the goody goody child, a daughter who did what was expected and chose the path of less resistance ensure other people’s paths. But what happens when you realise that this isn’t what you should be doing but you have absolutely no idea as to what you really should be doing. you’ve trained yourself to think using other people’s sports Well, our guest started to see the light when she received a less than positive grade through a paper she’d written at school where she says I grew up witnessing my two sisters getting yelled at or even having their mouth washed out with soap as punishment for being fresh with my parents. terrified by the threat of these punish I’ve vowed to myself, I would never do anything that would make somebody punished me this way, vast began my entry into goodie goodness lover, and showing that regardless of how I actually felt my actions would bring nothing but approval from my parents, sisters and teachers. It didn’t even occur to me that my own opinions matter until a college professor handed me my first C grade for a paper. Now, as you can imagine, I was a great student, at least when it came to following directions. And he said, I don’t want you to write how you think I want it. I want you to tell me your own ideas, own ideas, own ideas, I don’t have any idea she cried. And so she set up on a journey of discovery to find talents or skills and the things that she wanted to do with her life. And now appears to be where she wants to be making a life of its own and inspiring ladies across the world to embrace a natural sell to rock their next photoshoot how successful webinars and other kind of live streams, feel confident give speeches and presentations and well communicate effectively in one on one sessions. So how did this lady you had no idea of what she wanted to do anything and been develop it into a business that is flourishing. And Can she see clearly that the clues were waiting for her all along? What does she look around and think, wow, this is a surprise. Well, let’s find out as we build on to the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Linda Ugelow. Good morning to you, Linda, how are you?
Linda Ugelow [3:22]
I’m great. And I just adore this show, because it feels like it’s the story of my life. And I’m so grateful for your whole concept here because even just coming on the show has allowed me to go through a kind of reminiscence of, you know, my life and put some of the dots together. So thank you.
David Ralph [3:46]
It’s an absolute delight to have you here and be honest. Did I say your name right?
Linda Ugelow [3:51]
You did not. I’m so sorry.
Unknown Speaker [3:53]
What did I do wrong? I
Linda Ugelow [3:54]
thought I was perfect. If you think of you glow like you glow in the eye. Night, right? That’s how you say my name you glow.
David Ralph [4:03]
That’s why I said deny. Usual. Oh, wow, I didn’t I did a new play.
Linda Ugelow [4:08]
No, you listen back. It may be it was close. It was very, very close
David Ralph [4:14]
your I think I’m gonna have trouble with you Linda, I think you’re a little bit feisty what happened to this goody goody person that we had when we was a kid? I’ve got my bottle of soap ready. So what happened to her? Do you look back? Is she still in you? Or are you just this feisty lady all the time?
Linda Ugelow [4:32]
I’m not feisty all the time. I go in waves, but I am definitely more on this side of the line for sure. For sure. Yeah, it’s been a lifelong journey. I
David Ralph [4:42]
mean, is it more fun being this side?
Linda Ugelow [4:44]
Are you kidding? Absolutely. Absolutely. It’s more playful, it’s free year. It’s it’s more fun. And you know what I realised when I when I look back on my childhood, what I really wanted to do was have fun and I I was Like soaking up those moments where the whole family was laughing together rather than fighting, or when we played games or when my parents would have a bridge party, and I’d be up in bed and I’d be listening to the quiet and then suddenly, there’d be this burst of laughter and I just felt great. That’s what I live for.
David Ralph [5:20]
I think that is the way to do it, isn’t it? And I, you know, I talked about this a lot on the show, but I spent my entire career in corporate land, just try my best to have fun. And some places it worked very well. And in some environments, it was terrible. And I missed out on so many promotions, even though I could over deliver what other people were doing, because they walked around with a frown looking very serious and businesslike and I try to make people feel happy and enjoy myself at the same time. And once you get the right environment, it does come together. I’m now on a show like this and I have a be a surprise to you, Linda. Sometimes I can be a bit of an idiot on here. If I ever shows but actually I get more downloads and more feedback, it seems the more authentically stupid I am, the more the world kind of likes it. It’s bizarre, but it’s fun as well.
Linda Ugelow [6:11]
Yeah, I totally get it. And I was at a positive psychology conference in France this year, which I got to present that which was totally cool. And one of the most kind of significant moments for me when they spoke about strengths and how we all have different strengths and like yours might be humour and leadership. Well, in a classroom, someone who is the class clown may not be appreciated by the teacher if they don’t value that. So you’re in a corporate environment where they didn’t value that so you couldn’t allow that strength of yours to come out but here you are. You found it right.
David Ralph [6:50]
Oh, I have found it and I am rocking and rolling Linda but a strange isn’t it strange and, you know, why do you think why do you think being a professional as you are Being a professional rapper, and I’ll bring that up because I was watching on your website you like a little sing song every now and again. But why is it but we as a as a world focusing on the weaknesses we never really look at what people can do really well and and push them into an environment where they can do that really well and then subsequently flourished enjoy themselves we always look at the the weaknesses and try to strengthen them up. Just forget the weaknesses should wait.
Linda Ugelow [7:28]
Yeah, well, you know, I’ve heard that humans are wired for negativity. So maybe it comes out of that. But one of the things I’m going to go back to the positive psychology movement again, because what I appreciate about them is they they say let’s not look at what can go wrong or what is wrong. Oh, they will address that. But let’s see how well can things go and what makes that happen? So, and they believe that building I know to me Personally, I, I think that I hear we should go with our strengths. But truthfully, I’m obsessed with overcoming my weaknesses. Are you really what I am? I don’t know. I really Truthfully, I haven’t figured it out. For instance, as my I’ve been performing for 35 years with a world women world’s Women’s World Music Group. When I joined, we were 20 people and I had never really sung in my life, but I was taking singing lessons. And the teacher said, Come join the group. I said, Okay. And it was fun, you know, isn’t a big group. I was nervous going on stage. That was like one of I had danced on stage. I had never sung on stage. But I thought, Hey, I’m in this big group. You know, my voice just blends in. But then people started to leave over the years. I’ve been with them for 35 years. As people left we got smaller and smaller, and I became more visible, more and more visible. And suddenly I felt, oh gosh, I’ve got to like really bone up on my, my ability to sing. And I, truthfully, I’ve been taking voice lessons for 35 years and I feel like I still haven’t cracked the code for how to just feel comfortable and relaxed about my singing voice. And it’s a riot because I have, I don’t have a lot of fame we have kind of like a small cult following, but like, once or twice, someone would recognise me and they go oh my god, you’re in Lavanya Can I touch you and I would like be flabbergasted that first of all, so in new the group and recognise me and then put me on a pedestal. I mean, it was because I know my inner experience is, I am I am struggling here, but I’m determined. I am determined. I’m gonna crack this nut in my lifetime.
David Ralph [9:59]
Well, I’m gonna slow you Down here because I think this is an ongoing story. The first question is where do you let them touch you? That’s that’s something that popped into my head
Linda Ugelow [10:09]
on the arm only hurt my heart.
David Ralph [10:12]
disappointing isn’t it for them they’re looking at some celeb and they want a bit of celeb flesh and you’re giving me you could give them a five Can you lend out
Linda Ugelow [10:21]
you know what actually I’m a big hugger so I’m sure I hug to them.
David Ralph [10:26]
Well, and I went away and why do you think they did that? Because you know with the greatest respect in the world you’re not like Mariah Carey or someone or you’re
Linda Ugelow [10:35]
no not at all. I mean, most people I talk to it See I even have an email address with the name and my email address that I use, you know, for my personal correspondence and very, very few people have ever commented, but occasionally they do they say, Are you are you do you happen to be in levana and I go Why yes. Someone that’s based on a big
David Ralph [11:03]
group, or a famous because I’ll be honest.
Linda Ugelow [11:06]
As I said, we have a small cult following. We’ve been together for 35 years, we’ve travelled around the country and four times abroad. And we’ve what we’ve done though we’ve inspired people to sing in groups, and that’s probably our biggest claim to fame, that we say, okay, we’re just a bunch of gals singing and we happen to choose great music. And we work hard at making it sound good. And it’s important because we’re seeing music from other cultures and this understanding other cultures can happen through music. So that’s like our message, but we also say, and you can sing too, so people have started all kinds of singing circles, in their women’s groups or at their churches or at conferences. I have this memory of being at herbal conference in New England, and I was feeling pretty awful. Actually, I was coming down with something. But I I walked towards the opening ceremony and I heard a piano song everyone’s singing the love on a song. It was a burst give
David Ralph [12:18]
us a burst a bit, Linda. I’m not gonna
Linda Ugelow [12:22]
I can’t remember exactly what what it was. It might have been. It could have some birds in my grey Sean, on a Shawn, for women with wings, something like that.
David Ralph [12:37]
Wow. Okay, it’s quite inspiring.
Linda Ugelow [12:40]
Yeah, so it’s, uh, it’s, it was kind of like a gathering, you know, building up there. It was a women’s herbal conference, and I went, Wow, that is so cool. And that has happened to me at least four or five times and everyone else in the group as well. So that is why we have that kind of fame. I think Because we kind of like we’re doing this, this thing before anyone else and inspired other people who do the same thing. And that goes back to what did you say before? David? It was something about
kind of like how we look up to performers.
David Ralph [13:18]
In my introduction,
Linda Ugelow [13:21]
yeah, it was kind of like we, we want it so much ourselves to express ourselves to be fully who we are. Yes. And we project that on to the people who are doing it. Right.
David Ralph [13:33]
Now, this is an interesting thing, right? And we’re gonna stop on this one because this is a fundamental part of everything, isn’t it? When you are in that position in your life that you want to move on and you want to do something more often than not you look around anything I want to do more of and if I can do more of this, but you don’t really know what it is. That the great way of doing it is by looking around at people and being inspired by their performance. And when you get somebody like yourself If he was up on stage, in a group enjoying what you’re demonstrating is not as such a talent of singing, you’re demonstrating a willingness to allow your mistakes to be put out into the open. And so if people are out there, would you think that it’s a great way of saying you know, to really just free yourself from that, that self limiting I can’t make a mistake. Just go down to your local bar, get a few pints down yourself and burst into karaoke and see how you feel afterwards? I think that is the way that life should be changed. What do you think?
Linda Ugelow [14:36]
Well, you know what, I’ve never done that. Maybe I should give it a try. I’m gonna put that on my bucket list.
David Ralph [14:42]
You’ve never done karaoke after a few
Linda Ugelow [14:44]
I’ve never done that and I’ve never gone to the bar and drunk a couple of pints.
Yeah, so I’m gonna I’m gonna work on that.
David Ralph [14:53]
Linda, you are missing out. Is this the way forward? I am. I’m somebody now but doesn’t even Need a couple of points I just walk straight in, get the microphone and bang. And one of the things I don’t like Linda, I’ll be honest with you. I don’t like singing in choirs. I think if I’m gonna get up there and sort of like free myself from my self limiting thoughts, I want people to hear me that what what does that say that I’m egotistical or that I don’t just like being in groups. I like to do things on my own. What do you reckon?
Linda Ugelow [15:23]
Well, I feel that way about dancing. I mean, I love dancing with people, but if I’m going to perform, I like to be the centre of attention. And I think for for me, I don’t know how it is for you. But for me, it’s that I have something that I want to share. I have, I want to, I want to, I think it’s kind of like a, I’m going to go a little metaphysical on you. Is that okay? You go for it. Okay, so it’s almost I almost think of it as like being A shaman. And that performance perhaps could be seen like that, that by, by going up there and, and allowing ourselves to be seen to be heard to be experienced. We give a particular we do something for the benefit of the whole. We’re doing it for the whole community. And this is actually what communities did or it’s still do in indigenous cultures. That, gosh, there’s a book that I read years ago by a Harvard anthropologist called boiling energy. And it was a about the cone people of the Kalahari, who three times a week, they would stay up all night long, and have these dance and singing extravaganzas. But they weren’t just a party. It was they It was a whole community. creating an atmosphere of intensity so that whoever was dancing might be able to go over to the other side quote unquote, whatever that might be into a kind of a trance, which was not comfortable. So it needed the whole community to help them go there because it was not comfortable. So but the energy of the group allowed them to go there. And when they were there, they could perform magical things, like talking to the spirits or seeing the disease and people in pulling it out. And I, I like to imagine that’s what we’re doing is that by by going up there and doing our thing, and, and being fully present with it, that we are performing an act for everybody, that that changes us or feeds us or nourishes or heals us.
David Ralph [17:59]
Yeah, okay. I can agree with this totally
Unknown Speaker [18:01]
entertains us. I’ve
David Ralph [18:03]
been there’s logic you know if i watch American Idol within about 30 seconds I’m in a trance and and i think that’s that they know something these shaman, don’t they, they know how to sort of inspire. So So let’s take us away from this bit of a subject and back to it because what we’re talking about now is somebody who likes to dance likes to get up there likes to do sort of confidence stuff, which is obviously translated really well into your business. But that was that always in you, but you suppressed it. Are we talking about somebody that has reconnected with their younger self?
Linda Ugelow [18:37]
You are absolutely talking with someone who has reconnected well. It’s not like I lost it. But I stepped back because, truthfully, I knew what I wanted to do. I always just wanted to dance. And my father said, No, and that was that one word was enough to like, make me jump back. So, like in college, I tried other things, but really, it was just dance that I wanted to do. And he said, I don’t want you to do that because you’ll never make a living. And of course, being a youngster, I thought, I’m gonna prove you wrong. But you know what? It was darn hard to tell.
David Ralph [19:21]
But the thing is, is the journey This is what I always think your dad was so wrong. Well, he was so right. It’s gonna be hard. And he was only protecting you from sort of a disappointment, basically. Yeah, because we see so many. You know, people go off to Hollywood and they want to be the next Bruce Willis and they end up waiting tables forever in a day and sloping home so we know that’s gonna be what I
Linda Ugelow [19:42]
did after college.
David Ralph [19:44]
I imagine you have a bald head running around in a vest.
Linda Ugelow [19:47]
I absolutely worked in restaurants.
Unknown Speaker [19:49]
Yeah, I could
David Ralph [19:50]
see you as an ex Bruce Willis. But um, it’s an interesting part. But when you look back to your struggles, it’s better that you set your stall out together. Gopala harping, I think because there’s, there is gold within that journey as you proceed through and you find out about yourself and you find out different ways of doing it. The self development can’t be defined and it takes you off into areas that you could never know. I think if you started off on an easy path, you’re not going to achieve as much as if you go for the dream once you think Linda
Linda Ugelow [20:25]
I didn’t feel like I really had a choice. So I like hearing your words. I feel like I’m, you know, listening to a potential father figure, although I don’t think that you’re I think you’re younger than me. I don’t thank you anyway, for your wisdom. Yeah, I, um, I felt like I couldn’t imagine doing anything but and that I just had to try it. I just had to try it. The problem was that I kept doing trying the same thing over and over and over again. And I didn’t know the first thing about running a business. I mean, my idea of marketing was putting up fliers and if I wanted to expand on that, I found new new bulletin boards to put the flyers on. Yeah.
David Ralph [21:17]
That that still works, doesn’t it? That is still marketing.
Linda Ugelow [21:20]
Yes, it is. It is. But it didn’t go beyond that. And you know, the I know that this quote is attributed to Einstein, I don’t know if it’s true or not. That insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Yeah, so I felt like I was really stuck in a kind of Groundhog Day doing and but there was beauty in it. I was incredibly creative. The people who I worked with, were changed and moved and and it’s interesting now that I’ve gone back to teaching dance kind of on the on the side, kind of I’m kind of on the side. I mean, I am working with movement. People who were my students 25 years ago have come back. It’s like, Yay, she’s back. So what I did is when my father died back in 92 I just thought, why am I knocking my head against the wall? I’ve been trying to prove to him. He called me every week and say, How much money did you make? But he never helped me strategize. He never helped me figure out well, what could I do? It was always a challenge. And I just got worn down by it. And I got worn down by seeing other people around me having what I thought looked like success by to my standards today, I see that they were struggling to, but I really was clueless. And I thought, finally it hit me. What I’m doing isn’t working. I’m just going to take a step back. Because, I mean, it would it would be insanity for me. To keep going and expect something different. So I stepped back for like 15 years
David Ralph [23:05]
is a big step. And then I was, like, six months or something? Well, let’s play some words Ben and Ben, let’s take you from that point to where you are now. He’s Jim Carrey.
Jim Carrey [23:16]
My father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.
David Ralph [23:42]
And he was kind of like your dad in some ways, didn’t he that he kind of he wanted to protect you. He wanted to play small he wanted the safe route. But of course you You are now at a point where you’ve created a safe route because you have defined what you can bring to the table and others been talking about this a lot with myself coaching guys, when I say once you define yourself not what you do, but what you are, then things start to sort of really rocket forward. And I think on a show recently, I said one of the great ways of doing this is not when you go into a bar, and somebody says, you know, what do you do? Tell them? Oh, I’m an accountant for Price Waterhouse, you have to say, you know, what you actually do? As in? What are your talents? What are your skills, and that is a great way of defining yourself and what you’ve done quite obviously, is you like movement, I can imagine you as a small girl, always jumping around and not sitting still. You like the creative process. And you found a way of actually taking both two elements of what you like, into your third which is teaching and when you bring those together, and you can market it into a product that is useful for people. You really you don’t need marketing as such, it starts to take care So doesn’t it?
Linda Ugelow [25:01]
I believe that now, but I didn’t see that at the time. At the time, it was more like I think maybe I’ve heard the term, the guru approach where you come up with something, and then you find people who are interested in it. So I didn’t have the concept of how can I serve? Or what do people need? And I think that was one of the, my mistakes. But we’re talking about in the 80s, and 90s. It’s different than today’s world. And I think, in fact, I needed to wait until today’s world to do what I’m doing now. I do things,
David Ralph [25:44]
internet and stuff, but you just got an ability to connect more easily. Is that what you’re saying?
Linda Ugelow [25:49]
Well, I feel that the technology of today’s world opens up so many possibilities, not least of which is access to know how I had no idea there was such thing as a business coach, or business books. I mean, to me, my father was the only source of learning about business in my mind. And if he wasn’t interested in sharing with me, then I, that was kind of it. It never occurred to me that I, I mean, I found other mentors. But somehow it never occurred to me to get a business mentor, or that I could or that there are people out there that I could learn from. So, I just felt like, in my mind, I felt like I was stuck by my own
Unknown Speaker [26:42]
Linda Ugelow [26:44]
non self belief or limiting belief patterns, and I decided I’m just going to take a break. I didn’t know it was going to be 15 year break. And in the meantime, all those things that I didn’t believe about myself, I was able to cultivate Other ways, so that I could I could finally like, okay, so like, I’ll share my age at age 60 I finally felt like
David Ralph [27:13]
ninja. No, I don’t believe it. I do not believe it. You’re lying to us.
Linda Ugelow [27:18]
I am not. I’m 61 now. So I actually started my first business, my first business when I was like 56 and it was organic farming. And I thought Yes, I’m finally ready. finally ready to be in business. You know, some people come at it late, but I’m getting it now. And I was listening to Marie Forleo who is an online business coach. Yeah, and I was applying it to my my farming business. I was found a great niche of selling specialty. edible flowers and greens to local restaurants and they were raving fans. And this was Cool. I love the whole community of organic farmers. They’re really cool people. I had a great business plan. But one day as I was listening to a module, and maybe it was about believing in yourself or taking a bigger stage, you know, allowing yourself to take a bigger stage. It just kind of like my past just rose up in me and I stood up and I said, Okay, growing greens is cool, but I’m, I know, I’m meant for something bigger. And if I get to the end of my life, without going for it, I’m going to have regret.
David Ralph [28:42]
Now, so many people get to that point. I’ve been through that point. And I, I probably went, I imagine for about a year and a half of just going through the motions thinking there’s more to life in this I got to do big things I got to do, but I just couldn’t see what it was and the lack of it. Yeah, I stumbled into podcasting. And as soon as I heard two or three episodes of somebody doing a podcast, I just thought I could do that. But I didn’t have any idea of how to do it. It was just that feeling of I think I could do that and sort of away I’ve gone. Now, when you had that feeling of I’m going to leave the veggies behind and I’m going to go for something bigger. Did you then think to yourself, right, okay, what did I used to like? or How did you transition from that feeling of this is a starting point. I have grown confidence. I have grown vegetables, but I now do my own thing.
Linda Ugelow [29:34]
And I grown I grow the child to
David Ralph [29:36]
Oh, there you go.
Linda Ugelow [29:39]
Yeah, no, it was it was not. It wasn’t a step into what I’m doing now. Not at all. I I basically just went online, started taking classes started listening into people’s conversations to see what could I contribute, you know, what do I know about that could help Others and the first thing I noticed was that people were struggling a lot. And the word struggle I had decided to erase from my vocabulary. My husband had stuck up this Hopi prayer on the bathroom wall, it was there for like four years. And it said, I should have brought it. I should have pulled it up but it said something like erase struggle from your, from your mind, you know, just allow yourself to let go of the shore, get into the river. And and go and then have a look around and see who’s with you and have a good time. And I don’t know if you follow my husband was really into the Hopi, the Hopi, the Mayan calendar, coming to an end on December 21 19. 2012 and after that he pulled down this Hopi prayer and he said, We don’t need this anymore. And you know what, David? When he did that I said, My husband’s right because I, I just like, transitioned from struggling to not struggling. I had looked at that, those words, several times a day for all those years. And then I thought, you know what, I’m not going to struggle anymore. So when I saw people struggling online, I thought, I’m going to help them with that. And I started offering free sessions. Like personalised affirmations I’d ask them what’s going great in your life and what’s not going great. So where did you
David Ralph [31:42]
get this idea of and Linda because it this is a big confidence bit you you’ve just stepped through a doorway, where you’ve gone I can provide value to people but how do you suddenly come up with it?
Linda Ugelow [31:53]
Well, that particular thing actually came out of 1992 when after my father died, I I happen to do a training and breath transformation. And one of the things they taught us to do was make our own audio tapes of affirmations for ourselves. And it’s just something that for 20 years I’ve been doing for myself just for fun, and I realised, gosh, because what I was thinking of David was here, they’re struggling. This is completely new. I don’t know how to make a website. I don’t even know how to post on Facebook. I didn’t know anything about technology. I was a total Luddite. Up to that point. Everything was a learning curve. And yet I was I was excited every moment I just thought, wow, this is a whole new world to learn about. But I know I have gifts. And so this was one thing I knew that I was excited here. These people who grew up with technology, were not they were struggling. They were and I thought you know what, it doesn’t have to be that way. Maybe I can help them have a better attitude. So my thought originally, my original All business model slogan was high on life strategies, everyday strategies for your life in biz. And I was totally into it. And one day a friend of mine who I’ve known for years said to me, Linda bliss is nice, but I thought, Oh, what is she gonna tell me? She said, you have something from your performing, that you could really help people with. And that is your stage presence. And you’ve learned to, like, I’ve seen you over the years, and you just glow when you’re on stage. And I’m in the audience thinking I want that. And I’m sure other people are in the audience thinking the same thing. And I’m sure it’s true, because when I get off the stage, we make ourselves available to our audience, and people always are coming up to me, saying, Oh, my God, you know, I cried when you danced and brought whatever so moving and that was amazing. Things like that. So I knew I had something, it was a matter of deconstructing what I did, so that I could share it and teach other people.
David Ralph [34:13]
And did it seem too easy because what you’re talking about there is the X Factor. It’s the thing that you just do naturally. Rep people look at. And when they say, how do you do that? Linda? Linda looks back at him and goes, I don’t know. I just kind of do it. It’s just just it’s just stuff I’ve done for years and years and years. So you’re absolutely right that you have to deconstruct it, but was it a kind of, you can’t be talking about this. This is just stuff I do.
Linda Ugelow [34:41]
Actually, no, it no because I I was very conscious of my own process. And particularly with movement. I was even though I love dancing, and I loved being seen. I was incredibly self conscious and worried about what people would think. Is it Am I good enough? All that kind of stuff about wanting approval from the outside. And I happen to have discovered before I quit dance teaching a process called authentic movement, which is a pretty cool process of closing your eyes. Allowing your body just to kind of move how it wants to while you’re being witnessed by someone who is looking on with positive regard. So it’s kind of recreating that original relationship of when you are a child and you are so fully self expressed and everyone’s around you just glowing with delight in what you’re doing. It’s kind of recreating that. But you know, we’ve, we grow up and we have all these put downs from school from friends from seeing other people put down, you know, things that we absorbed, so we get more and more inhibited. So this process for me in my, I guess I was in my late 20s and 30s. And I taught this process for I don’t know maybe seven years. It was a trance total transition for me to be able to be on stage moving and be completely present and grounded in myself and allowing people just to intimately see me being vulnerable.
David Ralph [36:20]
And how do you charge for this Linda though, How’d you find your price point for something that is naturally you?
Linda Ugelow [36:28]
Well, what? Well, that’s why I was trying to figure out how what can I help people with and so it just, I don’t know if I had been making videos for myself for, you know, the previous business idea. And I did some market research about a year and a half ago, when I thought well, maybe I can help people get comfortable on video. And when I did market research, I one of the questions I had was what are you would you be looking for in a coach or teacher? And a couple of people said, Well, I certainly want to know that you’ve done it yourself and that you’ve done a lot. And so that you know, a lot and I thought, well, I’ve done some, but I haven’t done a lot. So I better get cracking. So I started to make more videos and I periscope was just kind of up and coming and I got on Periscope. I did. I don’t know, maybe 70 I was doing a bunch of periscopes every day and I realised that I was very nervous. And I thought my mind wasn’t going, Oh, cool. I can teach about this. Now my mind was like, oh, shucks, you know, I don’t I don’t like feeling this. And I asked a mentor. Oh, you know, I’m feeling really nervous. What do you have any suggestions and she just said, oh, by the time you do 100 you’ll be fine. And I my first thought was 100 I have to do 100 of these to feel comfortable. I mean, that seems like an awful lot. So Here I am, diligently every day doing doing my Periscope and I was exploring it was kind of fun. But every time I’d open up my notebook to write down my bullet points, like 20 minutes before going on, my heart would be pounding out of my chest. And I have to admit, I have a very low tolerance for stress. I just don’t like the feeling. I don’t like watching films that are scary. I close my eyes. I am breathe deeply. Even in a like romantic comedy if there’s a stressful moment, I close my eyes. So I did not like this feeling and I got to 75 periscopes and I thought, this is not working. Excuse me. It’s not going to change between 75 and 100. I know. So I’ve got to make a change. And I thought to myself, okay, Linda, you here you are you. You are a coach. You want to coach people in this if someone came to you With this issue, how would you guide them through it? And because of all my, I have a master’s in expressive therapies, I have all this performance experience. I’ve taught workshops and classes. So I was able to sit down and kind of guide myself through different processes. And when I was through, I felt like I was having a different experience. And because I, I had that experience, very kind of in an outline form for myself, I thought, Oh my gosh, this is amazing. I’m going to start working with other people and see if it works for others too. And not just me. And lo and behold, it did.
David Ralph [39:48]
And they changed dramatically between 75 and 100. Was she right?
Linda Ugelow [39:52]
Yes, yes. And now then I did 250. And then I decided Periscope, wasn’t the platform. Form I wanted and I was going to, I really really enjoy doing video tips and Facebook Live I got into for a while and have been out but I’ll probably reengage with that.
David Ralph [40:11]
He’s classic advice. I’ve heard this many, many times. And I remember the British comedian, Russell Brand. And he wanted to be a comedian, and he met the other British comedian Eddie Izzard. And he said, You know, I don’t know if I’m gonna be very good. And Eddie Izzard said, Well, how many have you done? He said, 30 he said you can’t tell until you’ve done 100 and he said exactly the same thing. Because then you’ve got 30 that you were great. 30 that you was a rubbish 30 you know, and you’ve got a spread. You’ve got enough spread to sort of go through the peaks and troughs and find the times when you’re really comfortable and the times that you’re struggling and find your swing takes a while to find your swing donate Linda.
Linda Ugelow [40:53]
I think it does. And sometimes I think it’s more than just time and experience. Oh, I think it’s different for different people like Sure you were were you nervous when you began your podcasting?
David Ralph [41:04]
No, I tell you, I tell you what I, I come from a sort of public speaking background. What I didn’t realise was the energy levels, but you have to use that was very different from public speaking to the podcast. So I think that when I started, I wasn’t that much different from how I am now. But I used to get so much more tired after a day of recording shows. I was absolutely exhausted. And I used to think to myself why I used to stand up on stage for eight hours a day doing training courses, why is it and it was a different energy levels. And it might have been, you know, looking at it now, it might have been an intern nervousness that I wasn’t feeling, but at the end of it, it was like the world’s worst job interview. I’d literally turn off the microphone and slump in my chair and slide my way back to my house, just because it was just taking up too much energy. And I remember after about probably 150 shows, I remember thinking one day is worth it. I am actually loot exhausted, because I hadn’t found the pleasure within the task. It was all task all the way through, if that makes sense to you.
Linda Ugelow [42:07]
Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, that’s what I was referring to before of wanting to help people feel better about what they’re already doing. But so what I’m curious though what did you change so that you could feel more nourished or more like you could pace yourself or relax more feel like you were recharging as you go?
David Ralph [42:32]
Would it surprise you that I reconnected with my my inner self. I just became more of who I am. So that I wasn’t it wasn’t a performance. I wasn’t having to put so much energy into it. I was being myself. And yeah, you’ve got to be a bigger version of yourself. Because it translates well on the microphone. But it was simply that I just started to relax and be more myself and I can look Back over the shows and there’s certain milestone episodes, but probably the listeners won’t hear any difference. But I can hear and I can think, yeah, I stepped on there. And now we’re coming up tonight 700 shows and stuff. And literally I could do this every day because it’s not just recording, it’s the process is behind the scenes. But volleyball got easier and streamlined. And funnily enough that that initial effort allowed me to learn so much about recording and editing fast. Now I produce shows quicker than anyone I know. Because I know that the fun bit is doing this and all the rest of its hassle. And that’s allowed me to create podcasters mastery, which is a training platform that teaches people how to be a podcast without it without any of the hassles. And it was only because I was aware that I was going under, and I was putting too much into it. So there’s, as I said at the beginning, there’s gold in those hills, Linda?
Linda Ugelow [43:52]
Yes, we teach what we want to learn ourselves. Absolutely. That’s what I’m doing as well.
David Ralph [43:58]
Well, let’s play some From the late Steve Jobs, that’s gonna take us into the the last part of our conversation, where we start moving towards the Sermon on the mic, when we send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. But here’s Steve.
Steve Jobs [44:12]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [44:47]
So we’ve kind of created a different show to what I was expecting. We haven’t sort of Delve back into your younger days as much but do those words translate well to your life? Do you look at them with sort of resonance
Linda Ugelow [45:00]
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Because, you know, due to that 15 year stepping back, I did wonder, you know, am is that a lost part of myself or is it still alive? And to tell you the truth, I feel like where I am right now is still a dot for what’s yet to come.
David Ralph [45:25]
Yeah. So it becomes a stepping stone for you.
Unknown Speaker [45:28]
Unknown Speaker [45:30]
David Ralph [45:31]
Are you excited by where those dots are sort of projecting forward?
Linda Ugelow [45:37]
Oh, incredibly, incredibly. Even just this morning, I woke up and I got an image of where I I have just been holding this little treasure and it is my dance. My dance is this little treasure that I haven’t wanted to reveal. He’ll too much until I understand how to bring it into the world in the way that I see. And that’s having the language for it for seeing how it serves people for having a vision of how to implement it. So I’m not, I’m allowing myself to keep it. Keep it alive, but not pressure it to be what I lead with right now. I feel like what I’m doing right now helping people get comfortable. I mean, basically what I’ve always done David is help people get comfortable inside their skin, whether it’s in movement, or you’re in front of a camera or you’re on stage, and that’s what it always I think the place where I’m going though, where and then I have found even on video and on stage is the solution. perience of transcendence so that we it’s not just about like getting it done and, and building a business but it’s having a transcendent experience and experience like it you say it feels good. You can do this forever. It’s the best part of what you do not something that you say, oh God, thank god it’s over. And that’s how a lot of people do feel a lot of people are speakers regularly are making videos regularly and they still feel stressed every time and my message is it doesn’t have to be that way.
David Ralph [47:36]
He doesn’t, it doesn’t you can literally I do think there has to be a bit of hassle and hustle to get to where you want to be. Just because you’ve got to shake off those years of sort of inactivity where you’re going to work. You’re coming back, you’re in a routine, you’re in a rut. So I do think at the beginning it’s got to be very, you know, difficult, but that proves whether you’ve got the passion for the task. But once you find that, and I’ve now got to the point, Linda, and I would love to come up to myself and punch me in the face because I used to hate people that would say, you know, if you find the thing, you never have to work again that you should really want me out there, or follow the passion, don’t follow the money because the money will naturally come all these kind of things. I used to think, Oh, it’s a lot for you to say. But he’s true. It is true. But I do think at the very beginning, you’ve got to find the desire, you’ve got to find the passion that allows you to go through the hassle and the hassle of getting something going. Because it does take a while always people on the internet that say, oh, we’re presses button, press that button in six months, you’re going to be earning six figures and 10 figures and all that kind of stuff. I don’t believe any of them. I don’t believe any of them, Linda, but I do believe that every single person out there listening to this show can start today and it doesn’t matter if you’re 22 1561 whatever. You can start making momentum and little by little, it builds into something and then on that journey, you suddenly realise what you were really aiming for. At the beginning, you just kind of start doing something. But it comes clear. Do you think Linda?
Linda Ugelow [49:13]
I it’s very exciting. Yeah, it is. There’s one piece I would add to it, though is that, like I’ve heard you say that you’ve you’ve had a really kind of easy or comfortable growing up, but not everybody has. And I think what I’ve discovered for myself, even though it wasn’t horrible, but it was challenging, that we often carry with us burdens from earlier times, and while they are still inside us. We are operating kind of with not all of our battery. It’s like having a computer with with apps running in the background. It’s using up memory and and space. So I think what to add to it You’re the hard work that upfront that you spoke about, I would add, we need to bring out which I think getting in front of people does, it brings up your fears, which is the gold, because then you see what is what are those apps running in the background, and you can clear them out. But unless you put yourself out, side your, you know what is familiar? Those things are going to be operating anyway but you don’t know what it’s happening. Once you put yourself in a place of exposure, then you’re able to see what needs to be released. And when that’s released, then your energy can go into doing that hard work that’s going to get you to where you’re going to go and not be stuck in this. I want to but I don’t want to I want to but I’m scared. Kind of dynamic.
David Ralph [50:56]
I had a thing last night and I laid in bed later on. Bloody hell. This is this is quite amazing. And it’s only a small thing, but it kind of struck me but it was a big thing as well. were part of Lady in my coaching group is organising a virtual summit, and she’s looking for high level offers. And there’s a couple of names. I won’t name the names. But she posted in there, she said, Does anybody know how I can connect with these guys? Because, you know, I’d really love them to be on my summit, but I don’t know how to do it. And I looked at both their names and Oppo, oh, yeah, I could connect you with those. Now, it was just a simple thing like that. But I thought to myself later on, when I was lying in bed, my God, within two and a half years of doing this show, I can now within seconds think, yeah, I can connect you with those people. And it’s such an easy thing to do, but it’s all those micro dots that have joined up that’s allowed me to build up this network. But where I can do that. Now she kind of thought it was like magic, but I could do it but it’s not. It’s just all the tiny little dots all the tiny little action I’ve gone on for three or four years that have built up into something. But, you know, I, I never want to lose the magic in it. But I know that the magic is just as soon as adults. Um,
Linda Ugelow [52:11]
I kind of felt like as you’re speaking, I’m imagining like this quilt that has more and more designs and more and more fabrics and patterns. I know it’s kind of a girl thing, perhaps an image, but just the richness of that all those thoughts have created for you, having interviewed all these people, you must be so enlightened having all these incredible people on sharing, you know, their experiences and wisdom. You’ve gotten to hear them all. I mean, that must be amazing for you.
David Ralph [52:43]
But it is amazing. And one of the things that people ask me a lot, they say to me, you know, who is your business mentor? And I always say, I don’t have any because I speak to them all the time. Literally on every show. Somebody will say something and I think to myself, Oh, Blimey, that’s a good idea or I hadn’t thought about It’s a different way of doing it. And yeah, so if you want to get a 100%, free coaching vein, become a podcaster and start interviewing these people because in every single conversation, there’s absolute gold, there is absolute gold in there.
Linda Ugelow [53:15]
That is brilliant. really brilliant. I love it.
David Ralph [53:20]
Well, this is the part of the show, Linda that we’ve been building up to. And this is the part that we call the Sermon on the mic when we send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the young Linda, what age would you choose and what advice would you give? Well, we’re going to find out because I’m going to play the theme tune and when it fades yo up, this is the Sermon on the mic
Unknown Speaker [53:48]
with the best bit of the show
Linda Ugelow [54:03]
So I’m speaking to my 27 year old self. Okay, Linda, you have great ideas, you can do anything just like your mom said, but you know what, get yourself a business mentor, or a coach, or read books, or start a podcast and be undeterred and finding a good match and filtering the ideas through yourself. So you don’t have to take anyone’s ideas that don’t match up and feel right to you. You are the boss, and you get to make the decisions. And by the way, if you think that having money is a nasty thing, you better clear up those limiting beliefs tip and while you’re at it, make sure you surround yourself with people who are Equally going places, not just with your wonderful starving artist, friends, creative as they are, you need to know that there are bigger things that are possible. And when you surround yourself with people that are inspiring. You will also be the inspiration for others.
David Ralph [55:25]
Great stuff, Linda, what’s the number one best way that our audience can connect with you?
Linda Ugelow [55:31]
My website is my name, Lindaugelow.com. And you can find me on all social media by the same name.
David Ralph [55:39]
We have all the links on the show notes. Linda, thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots and please come back again when you have more dots to join up because I do believe by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Linda, thank you so much.
Linda Ugelow [55:55]
It’s been an honour.
David Ralph [55:59]
Isn’t it interesting how So many of us live a life that is kind of almost dictated to by our parents, we are nurtured, were supported. We loved growing up. But there comes a time when you know, Linda, wish she could go back in time and say to a dad, no, no, I’m going to do what I want. Now, I want my kids to say that to me, I want them to go for the passion. I want them to go for the the journey that they want, because we’re only on this planet once. And if we set it out early enough, then you can really, you know, you haven’t walked away from your, your young passions for too long to lose track of them nested around you. And with the internet and the ability to connect and facilitate conversations with people, you really can create the life I pretty much say the same thing at the summary of every single show, but I totally believe it. Every single one of these conversations has proved that these people have got to a moment when they suddenly realised that it was time to do that. vaping and nobody else’s. I do hope that somebody out there listens to this show and today decides that it’s time to do your thing. And if you do do that, drop us a line and we will support you all the way. Thank you so much for being part of the show. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much for connecting with us on Facebook by email, never get fed up with getting your messages. We will speak to you again soon. Cheers. Bye bye.
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you or wants to become. So he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to Join Up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on Join Up Dots.