Welcome to the Steve Jobs based Join Up Dots Free Podcast Interview with Cody Royle
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Introducing Cody Royle
My guest today, on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots free podcast interview is the author of “Where Others Wont” which looks at the recruitment, leadership, culture and performance strategies used in pro sports and how they are relevant to big business.
Now this isn’t a book based purely on theory, instead our guest has been doing the rounds and spent the last year interviewing people like Denver Broncos GM Ted Sundquist, Southampton president (and former Oilers coach) Ralph Krueger, 2 x World Series winner Ryan Theriot and Utah Jazz coach Igor Kokoskov (among others) to validate some of the ideas he had.
Would they agree with his theories or say, probably in an American voice “Get the hell out of here kid!”
Well I guess we will find out during the show.
But what I like most about today’s guest is, getting himself into a position where he is involved in the dissection of sports leadership across the world was never a given.
How The Dots Joined Up For Cody
Leaving University with degrees in business and Human Resources, he first entered the world of recruitment in Melbourne Australia, before moving to Canada to enter another world altogether.
And through the next decade he worked in seemingly unconnected businesses, that held dots, never to join up to where he is today.
We know though that is never the case.
And now as the managing Partner for NTSQ Sports Group, he is surrounded by a team specializing in experience creation and marketing in the endurance sports industry.
So did he plan to get himself into the position where he is today, or does he look around with a smile and think “Wow, how did this happen?”
And what is the biggest learning he has from the crossover from sports to business?
Well let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr Cody Royle
Books By Cody Royle
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Cody Royle such as:
Cody shares how there was no plan towards the future he created, he simply looked at what doors that were opening in front of him and decided which one he wanted to go through.
Cody discusses how the top teams across the world are always looking for new ways of gaining a competitive advantage, and more often than not that means looking in areas not connected with sport.
Why all business success is based around building a team which complements your own strengths. It is so important to realise that you cant do it on your own.
How he now realises that strengths and talents he had as a young man, were exactly the right ones he needed to be able to step into his future positively. Dont think you have to keep on leaving everything behind you. Take the gold and leave the stuff you dont need.
How To Connect With Cody Royle
Or if you prefer just pop over to our podcast archive for thousands of amazing episodes to choose from.
Audio Transcription For Cody Royle Interview
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling in join up dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK David Ralph
Cody Royale [0:25]
Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. And Good morning. Welcome to join up dots the motivational, inspirational, and sometimes conversational podcast that literally doesn’t know where it’s going, but knows where he’s going to end up inspiring somebody across the world. And today’s guest is going to inspire so many of you because not only is he a motivational guy, he’s a sports guy. He’s an author. He’s a young guy, he’s an attractive guy. He’s got everything going for him. And so he is the author of where others won’t, which looks at the recruitment, leadership, culture and performance strategies used in pro sports, and how they’re also relevant to big business. Now, this isn’t a book based purely on theory. Instead, our guest has been doing the rounds and spent the last year interviewing people like Denver Broncos, GM Ted Sundquist, you’re going to tell what I’m English here and I’m going to screw up these names Southampton, President and former Orleans coach Ralph Kruger, two times World Series winner Ryan Farias and Utah Jazz coach I go cough cough among others, to validate some of the ideas he had. Now what I agree with these families or say probably in an American boys get the hell out of here, kid. Well, I guess we’re point out during the show. But what I like most about today’s guest is getting himself into a position where he is involved in the dissection of sports leadership across the world, to me was never a given leaving university with degrees in business and human resources. He first entered the world of recruitment in Melbourne, Australia before moving to Canada to enter another world all together. And through the next decade, he worked in seemingly unconnected businesses that help never to join up to where he is today. We know vo but that is never the case. And now as the managing partner of empty Sq sports group, he’s surrounded by a team specializing in experience creation and marketing in the enjoyment sports industry. So did he plan to get himself into the position where he is today? Or does he look around with a smile and think, Wow, how did this happen? And what is the biggest learning he has from the crossover from Sports to business? Well, let’s find out as we bring on to the show, to start join up dots with the one and only Mr. Cody Royale. Cody, how are you?
I’m great, man. How are you?
David Ralph [2:35]
I am great because Australians are my world most favorite people.
Cody Royale [2:42]
Well, what a welcome that was and thank you for having me. And thank you for not mentioning our immediate rivalry in the introduction there. Do you know?
David Ralph [2:53]
Do you know my dad is a very unhappy person at the moment. There’s there’s the ashes going on this year cricket fan, yay, is an athlete cricket fan. And he’s been sitting up late every night. And every morning He will say to me, do you know I sat there for four hours and I didn’t see us take a wicket. It was just rubbish. So yeah, it’s a little bit rubbish. But in a funny way, I think he needs a reality check. Because being an English person, its glory all the time. We are basically the world’s premier at anything we put our mind to, except beating ourselves up and actually going for the sort of champions route. We’re very much sort of that second class citizens here. What is he different about the Australians, to the Americans to the English people, in your view about how they look at competition, and actually separating themselves from the masses?
Cody Royale [3:47]
That’s a really good question. I think it’s kind of ingrained in us that being being part of the the English monarchy, I think and being so far removed from that we kind of grow up with, you know, we feel we need to prove ourselves against the English and against the Americans. And, you know, this 20 something million people that we have against the hundreds of millions that the Americans have. And so there’s always kind of this, this built in grant, I guess, to to make something yourself and kind of get off the island and prove people internationally and kind of wave the flag a little bit. So I think it is a little bit of that little brother syndrome that is built into us. And then funnily enough, we then pass that on to the New Zealanders who we don’t need to get into but I think they have the same complex with us that they kind of feel like they need to get over to the Big Island and prove themselves against the Australians, which is pretty funny.
David Ralph [4:45]
He’s the strange thing though, is if you go over to America, America, I love the Americans because they’re very positive. They’re very enthusiastic. They’re very you know, their their champion base. They love the champions. But message there’s, there’s a forcefulness I don’t see as much in the United Kingdom were very much like, that’s good enough. If that’s good enough, it’s time to sit there and watch Netflix and just rest. Now, when I was in Australia, I’ve been over there several times, it seems so laid back, I can’t imagine that you get to achieve anything. I just wonder if the cricketers are only good because they don’t want to run they just want to hit the hole and save themselves some energy.
Cody Royale [5:29]
That’s quite possible.
That that is quite possible. I think we we kind of gave up or we created one day cricket, right. So we got over the the test match format. And just said, You know what, cut over this five day thing, let’s just do it in one and be done with it. So you might be honest, something there David
David Ralph [5:48]
I generally am in my own world, Cody, I’m generally onto something as long as you are with your book, because I found it fascinating that you put yourself in a business. And we’re going to talk about that before we get to the book, because I think there’s a join up dots story here, because you are an Australian guy, you go into sort of recruitment and human resources. And then you end up where you are going around having open door policy to the serial winners, does that sort of blow your mind was that past part of a master plan to get you there, because most people would go, Well, that’s never gonna happen. I’m not even gonna try.
Cody Royale [6:28]
Definitely not part of a master plan. There’s really been no plans since I moved to Canada, which was back in 2009. So I was, I was 25 year old guy, I’d been to university HR, I’d worked in HR for a couple years in Australia, packed up my bags and moved to Canada. And that time, the Australian Government was basically facilitating all this, they wanted young people to go internationally and get business experience and, and bring it back to Australia. So I took advantage of that I just never took it home. But you know, I just kind of followed almost an open door policy where you know, when a, when a decision would come up in my life, I would just look at what doors are available to me and which ones are opening at that time. And it’s kind of led me down this path. And it’s gone through. It’s gone through a transition from business career in HR into sales, and then sales into writing full time as a profession. And it’s taken me to the head coaching role with Ozzie rules, and then all of those things have kind of, you know, come together in the end, to produce the book.
David Ralph [7:38]
And what I love about what you just said, and it’s a real blueprint for success, you weren’t restricting yourself to opportunities, you were just seeing what’s there. And I think that’s one of the problems that people have, particularly in the online environment, they sit behind their computer, and they aren’t opening doors, were going through the same doors, everybody Subodh on Facebook going on best of all number. So you very much did it in the real world scenario. You weren’t sitting in your room, batting away on a keyboard, he was actually getting where the doors were
Cody Royale [8:11]
correct. Yeah. And you know what, one of the the original book idea that I had, was vastly different to this, I wanted to write a book about traveling and traveling solo and the impact it has on people, and how you kind of, there’s this, you know, this, this thing in the world at the moment where it’s kind of all facilitated for you, there’s online dating, and all that sort of stuff. And no one has these conversations and rah rah rah rah. But there’s these people that travel and I traveled on my own, I just packed up my my two suitcases and had a bit of money with me. But it kind of forces you into these situations where you have to ask the girl out in the Starbucks line, or you have to go up and ask someone for a job and the mentality that that creates for you in doing those things, I still try to latch on to that even though I’ve been here now for almost nine years, and I’m really settled in Toronto, but I still try to grab on to that, you know, force yourself into doing really uncomfortable things. And what you find is the doors that I was talking about for more of them tend to open when you force yourself into those situations, and they’re not scary
David Ralph [9:20]
things are like that. That’s the thing. There’s there’s very rare, but will actually cause you damage, it might cause you financial damage, you might have to invest in something that doesn’t quite work. But these beers in our head are certainly worse than actually doing it.
Cody Royale [9:37]
Absolutely. And that goes for everything, you know, literally asking the girl in the Starbucks line, what have you got to lose. And if you kind of have that, almost, you know, that’s my last day in town mentality. I’m leaving tomorrow. So I might as well ask her out, or whatever it is, whatever is relevant to you, is a very rarely come back to bite you. fact, you you learn how to put yourself in more of those situations?
David Ralph [10:04]
And has there been any that you look back at and you go, Oh, my God, what was I doing? I was I was mental. And unfortunately, I didn’t realize that the girl in Starbucks, she was even more mental and I put myself in a really bad position. Or have they all been things that you can just sort of migrate round. And if you make a bad decision, make another decision to sort of bring it back to where you want.
Cody Royale [10:25]
Yeah, I’ve always looked at this. I’m a I’m a football coach and rz rules coach. So I coached the men’s Canadian national team now and I was at a reasonably high level when I was back home in Australia. So I’ve always kind of looked at this as from my coaching background, which is if you make a decision, and it doesn’t go as planned, make another one to rectify the situation, like you said, so rather than dwelling treated as experience, okay, that didn’t work. But something else will. And if you keep making enough decisions and surround yourself with good people, you’ll make better and better decisions as you go along.
David Ralph [11:02]
That’s my experience. Anyway, I think it’s spot on, I really do. And it’s a strange thing, but the world hasn’t quite grasp in many regards. But we’re here to make those decisions. You know, we’re here to open the cupboard and decide what cereal we want that morning. We’re here to make the big decisions in our life. But we more often than not ourselves in a position where people are making those decisions for us. And it’s only when you break free from that, that you end up, I suppose, interviewing people like yourself, or opening doors or locker rooms across the world to actually create your future by taking control and just making decision after decision.
Cody Royale [11:43]
Absolutely. And, you know, the process of writing my own book and I chose to self publish for this exact reason. Because I wanted complete control over that process, I got myself into a situation, I had some suck some semblance of a network that I could call upon to to start the ball rolling to get these interviews that I was able to get and forgot to, you know, former NFL GM, the current president of the Southampton football club in season. and former NBA executive. So you know, these are kind of top of the tree level guys. But they weren’t immediately accessible to me, really, it was just my own gumption and my own willingness to ask for favors from people and do extra legwork that other people want to. And I’ve had journalists that are writing for fully fledged papers in the UK telling me that they can’t get to some of the people that I was able to get to. And really the story is just really I just worked harder than them. And literally, it was just asking, asking for help when I needed it. And then just putting in the work.
David Ralph [12:54]
And I would say to use a phrase you went where others won’t basically you you put your the sky, dare you say this is probably what you did there. This is professional podcasting. as best I linked it straight to the ball. But you did you put yourself into a position. But these journalists were trying to use a sort of old style networking, but you was actually once again opening doors.
Cody Royale [13:15]
Yeah, and that’s exactly where the title came from, who is this? I throw these conversations that I was having. And it wasn’t it was one of those things where didn’t immediately come to me I wasn’t writing the book under this title until kind of the last minute that I realized that in professional sports, these these guys, because of things like salary cap, or whatever the restrictions are, they’re forced to look for competitive advantage where other teams want. So if you think about the New England Patriots, they’re probably the the most high profile. Proponents of the SEC, they’re always doing something different than everyone else. And they’re so far ahead now. And so if you think about that, as it’s just a mentality, in business, or in life or in school, being willing to look at, look for a competitive advantage where other people want has the potential to make you leapfrog other people or other teams, or whoever you’re competing against quite quickly. So yeah, I kind of stumbled on it. And now I love it, and live by it as a mindset.
David Ralph [14:24]
Well, so you should so you should. So when you first got in with the first guy that there must have been a big imposter syndrome sitting on your shoulder, where you’ve got your notepad or you got your laptop, or you got a recorder in front of you. And you are ETFs go, it’s like my first ever podcast is your first ever interview. Did you breeze through it? Did you come out going? Well, actually, that was a bit better than I thought it was going to be? Did you come out thinking God, I should have asked him that that was a good question. How did it go?
Cody Royale [14:53]
Yeah, huge imposter syndrome. And still to this day after doing 15 to 20 these interviews and now I spend my time interviewing the top injuries, sports people in the world as well. And it’s still the same, you still kind of wonder why the hell is this guy spending time with me. But the great thing and why I went to sports is it’s my background. And so I have a level of comfortable speaking to sports people. Because I think there’s a there’s an understanding of people that potentially the business world doesn’t have, they don’t necessarily look down on you, like some people in business can from their kind of ivory tower, where sports tends to be because it’s so grounded in people. And the background of the book is that I see sports as having utilized their people have a lot better than the business world. So there is kind of that built in so I can have sporting conversations with them. And we can trade stories about this guy and that guy and who we know and what are the rules is like and what the NBA is like, and so yeah, definitely huge imposter syndrome going in. But I feel like once you get into the conversation, just like this one, there’s a flow, they’re immediately because you have a commonality with those people.
David Ralph [16:03]
Yeah, it’s not hard to start something, I think it’s harder to keep going. I think that’s the problem, right? When you start, you get a momentum, you get the excitement. And I see it in podcasting all the time, I’m coming up to 1000 plus shows, but I see people do 30 shows and then just stop, because they haven’t quite defined where the journey is going to take from now I was quite open with the fact that I didn’t really want to know where the journey was going to take me. I was just going to keep on doing it. And now it’s going into very exciting territory with yourself. Did you plan where the book was going to take you? What’s the first step on sort of bigger and bigger rewards and achievements or was it just to do something
Cody Royale [16:47]
I knew I want to write a book. And I didn’t really have an idea of where it was going to take me so but what I wanted to do was I was in the process of exiting the the a large corporate world. So I was working for one of Canada’s biggest banks at the time, I’d been there for quite some time. And it was incredibly frustrating. And I kind of wanted to get those stories out. And it just kind of stumped came to me this overlap of sports and business. And so I just had a general idea, but I really had no idea what I was going to do wanted to do, I just knew that I had to get these stories out. And then really through the process of I subscribed to, to the Seth Godin of the NBA, which is a fantastic new school course, five weeks online, and that through the process of that it’s really about challenging yourself and your own individual goals. And through the process of that some other people helped me define and put timelines on things, and recognize that I just needed to write this book for myself for no one else. And finally, my mom bought it, then so be it. But it was a process of doing it for me. And I’m sure this is a little bit the same for yourself and your podcast, you end up your best episodes of the ones that you just do for yourself, you know, after clicks and hits and downloads and all that sort of stuff. But something that really interests you, and then that ultimately comes through in what you create.
David Ralph [18:18]
I Yeah, thank you. And I think some of the episodes that I have launched to the world thinking this is this going to go viral, this is amazing. I’ve really sort of fell flat, and the ones that I have created. But I just want to show about by they’re the ones that seem to connect more. And it’s almost like there’s an untold story underneath the the given story. And that’s what intrigues people they like to join up the dots themselves, they like to see behind the scenes, as I did with you, Cody, when I was looking at you, I was thinking this is a fascinating guy. On one side, you would say, Okay, he’s an offer here plugging his book, but how the hell did you get there? How did he you know, do this? How did he get himself into this position? So we were up as one, we already know that it was something that you wanted to do. But we’ve all sports or the majority of sports now I would say your sports, even ones that seem like they’re individuals like tennis players and stuff, they have a team around them was Seth Godin part of your team as such, could you have done this without surrounding yourself with other people, which is a key part of IC as business success.
Cody Royale [19:31]
Now I definitely not everything is team based. And and that’s part of the reason that I wanted to write this book is I see a lot of the discussion on LinkedIn and Business Insider and Forbes is kind of all on an individual basis, you know, self help style things. And the way I see it, again, coming from a team sport background as a player and as a coach, and then working in the, in the corporate world. It’s a little bit of a misconception, you know, making your self better and skill wise, and training yourself on certain things and becoming better and weaknesses and things like that is fantastic. But if it doesn’t fit into the broader spectrum of having to work in a team, then it doesn’t really matter. And so, you know, one of the things that I proposed in the book was, he could really remodel the education system to make sure that basically every project, everything that a child did was school environment, was in a team. So he kind of grew up in this, knowing how to navigate through team dynamics. And for me, personally, Seth wasn’t personally part of my my team, but through his program, and the people that I met through there, I met my editor for my book. So I was 100%, you know, reliant on him to edit my work, which is tough as a writer. But I had worked with a graphic designer who did my book cover and back cover there. And so this wouldn’t be live at all. Without those guys, I’d still be I still have it on a Google document in my Google Drive. You know, now, if it wasn’t for the team that was around me,
David Ralph [21:13]
because at the moment, with join up dots we’re going through a big change. And one of the things is, but I’m building a team of experts across the globe. But I could only get to by actually recording episodes and building up connections with people and then trusting them and working with them. So but I know that if somebody connects with one of my experts through the show, they’re going to get quality, they’re going to get somebody good. But it took me a long time to realize that I couldn’t do it on my own. My whole focus was solo printer, just just do it on your own. keep it under control, don’t allow somebody to help. But as you proceed through you realize actually that’s holding you back massively, isn’t it?
Cody Royale [21:54]
Absolutely. It’s funny, you mentioned that there’s a really good, another podcasters guy from my community, some people may have come across him, his name’s Jason gain ad, and he now makes a podcast called Community made. And it’s exactly that premise where, you know, he’s been an entrepreneur and you know, multi million dollar companies and sold them and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But his whole premise now is that really, there’s no such thing as self made, there is only community made. And so like you said, connecting the dots in your network and bringing people together for random reasons, because you think they might get value out of each other, or interviewing people that you don’t know that there really is nothing else. You can’t make it on your own. And, yeah, like you said, you see those? You see those blogs and podcasts where people just kind of jam away at it for a little while, but don’t get anywhere. And really, it’s about bringing people together and being willing to go where others want.
David Ralph [23:00]
Yeah, absolutely. And Jason Gaynor, if you’re interested was Episode 12 of join up dots he was basically one of the first podcasts I ever recorded. And I remember at that time thinking to myself, this guy’s got something extra, he was willing to deconstruct his success to go again. And I know he’s done that sort of numerous times to find a better better way of doing things exactly likely, the sports team that you were talking about earlier, finding a competitive edge by doing things differently. Well, let’s just play some motivational words now. And when we’re going to come back to Cody
Rocky Balboa [23:33]
you know, nobody is going to hit as hard as life. But it ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward, how much you can take it keep moving forward. That’s how winning is done.
David Ralph [23:48]
So you have been in the sports world is a how winning is made.
Cody Royale [23:54]
I think there’s something to it.
I think there’s a real understanding of people that potentially we don’t really fathom how much it is. And that’s what I wanted to do with where others why was bring forward a lot of examples from the business world about how we deal with people and cross them over with how they do it in in sports and recruitment and leadership and culture and performance. You know, in the sporting world, you have to create competitive advantage with your people in those disciplines. And I feel like there’s this thought in business that we need to, you know, innovate on product or innovate on supply chain, or trying to create these advantages in, you know, processes rather than people. And I think there’s some real lessons and this is the drum that I’ve been beating, regardless of who I talked to, is, I think we should look at people next as the next big competitive advantage, or the way to get a competitive advantage.
David Ralph [25:00]
You’re actually going back to your human resources days, you’re you’re you’re bringing it all back to your original.on your timeline, I imagine.
Cody Royale [25:09]
You know what David is to actually, English was my best subject in school. And I didn’t really use it. And I didn’t utilize it, I went into HR and then into sales, like I said, and I’ve come back and join that dial up, I’ve gone, oh my god, I should have maybe followed that a little bit more. And, and also the HR thing where I’ve realized I’m interested in how teams are put together and how people work and how to utilize people in the workplace. And so, yes, actually multiple dots that I’ve read joined up as part of the book,
David Ralph [25:41]
it’s so interesting, in many ways, how we have certain skills that we find naturally easy, but we don’t utilize just because they’re naturally easy. And then I think most of us, as we’re progressing on to new ventures, leave a lot of the skills that we have developed behind because I that was part of that we we don’t need that anymore. But actually, as you proceed through, you realize there was a lot of good, there was a lot of good that was in that and I don’t need to leave it behind, I can take it with me join up dots is very much based around the fact where everything that leads you to the point of making that decision has given you the skills to make that decision. Do you see that in business as well as sports?
Cody Royale [26:25]
Definitely, in fact, one of the things that I still do for people in my network, particularly executives, even though I haven’t worked in recruitment for a number of years now, I still come to me as a know, I used to do some recruiting for them. And they come to me say, you know, I’m looking at redoing my resume, and I need a little bit of help in, in this area or that area. And what I find is that they don’t actually recognize a lot of the skills that they have, and only by going through it with me and digging into now, what did it take to make that decision? Or, you know, they might that they go for kind of grandiose on their resume, you know, I saw this amount of things, or I managed a team of 50. But if you really dig down, what does it take to manage a team of 50 people? Or what does it take, you know, who did you have to engage with any kind of dig and dig and dig, and there’s these underlying skills that are relevant to multiple industries, multiple jobs. And once you’ve identified them, you know, you can change careers, I think, probably quicker, you can change companies quicker. And you might have a more inherent understanding of what those base level skills are, and how they can be deployed in different jobs. Like I said,
David Ralph [27:42]
so so I know you said that you wanted to self publish so that you could keep control of it. Is that harder than you imagine? Because there’s so many people out here listening to this, who will think about writing a book as the process of writing a book. But of course, there’s thousands, as many books were never get read, because I end up on a disk on a shelf, whatever. And they don’t get out into the hands of the people that want them. Was it a process that took you by surprise that how easy it was or was it very difficult?
Cody Royale [28:16]
It was very difficult. And I think more so the the mental side of it that no one has ever been, I don’t think written an article on the mental side of self publishing and writing a book and, and the kind of the trauma that you have to go through. And I, I wanted to write on my own to keep in trouble. But what that meant was that I didn’t have a support system around me to bounce ideas off. And so I went through the same models that you hear about everywhere else, you know, there was probably a couple of months in June or July, I didn’t write at all. And then having to go on source and editor and graphic designer and I was lucky to have them in network anyway. But the effort that that takes and the days that it takes and negotiating, you know how you’re going to remunerate that person. It’s literally it’s not just self publishing a book, it’s self publishing a process. And so yeah, it was a lot harder than than I anticipated. The actual, once you have it in Amazon, it is super easy, easier than they tell you, they printed on demand. And I really like being in control of this process, getting to talk to you getting me come, you know, coming to you directly. And saying, Hey, I’m interested in your podcast. And I think we might have some overlap here, I’m really enjoying that process of getting to market myself, rather than having someone do that for me and finding out almost like the interview process that I went through with trying to get in touch with these guys. Now I’m finding out where I can get in terms of marketing the book. So I’m really enjoying being in control of that process. But overall, it is it is the half. But Jeez, it’s it’s fun when when you look back. And you know, I’m going to get to connect the dots on this in the decade from now and say, Well, look at where I was able to go because I was in control of it.
David Ralph [30:11]
And I Are you a control freak? Because I think out at my core I am I find it very difficult. When I was in the City of London running teams, I found it very easy to delegate. But in my own business, I find it very hard.
Cody Royale [30:26]
It’s a great question. I think I am. Do I think I’ve told myself that I’m not. And so I think I pick and choose, depending on where scenario is I when I coach football, and again at a reasonably high level and national team. So I bring those guys together, I think I was at least I try to empower them and just be a facilitator for them. But there are other elements of my life that I’m just I need control. You know, I I can never be late to a meeting, for instance, I love that control panel. Yes, the early and things like that. So I think I’m on both sides of the coin.
David Ralph [31:06]
Well, you were you were about a week early with me last week, I sent an email to Cody saying, I’m so sorry, I’m really I can’t do this. I’ve lost my voice. And he came back to me said Well, that’s a week early. And is it is it I was just all over the shop. So yeah, your professionalism shine out at that time. So let’s get you to the point because it would be be wrong of me not to get there. But you’re stepping into one of these guys and offices. And I’ll be honest, those names mean nothing to me based in the United Kingdom. I’m sure there’s a lot of United Kingdom people that understand who Utah Jazz are, I think I think they made a couple of albums, didn’t they? The Utah Utah Jazz? I think they would be good. Which of those guys really shown in front of you? Or did they all have lights that you’ve all Yeah, I can see I can see why they’re winners.
Cody Royale [31:56]
Yeah, I think it’s the second otherwise, it’s probably I was that. I was definitely I felt like I said before, I had a little bit of imposter syndrome speaking to these guys, but what I found was a real humility, particularly from the top end, guys. So you know, Ted Sundquist was the general manager of the Denver Broncos, he won two Super Bowls is that organization? And just you know, he pushed back meetings after our call to keep talking to me and Ralph Kruger, who used to coach in the NHL and now runs out and and football club, same thing, you know, and they, they call you by name when they’re talking to you. And there’s this real humility that afterwards, when I was thinking about the call, and about how things went, and speaking of people, I realized that all the reason for the success for these people is that human element, and so it’s not them talking to some young kid who’s called him up and said, Hey, do you want to be in my book? It’s, you know, this, this kid has something to say. And so I’m interested in a dialogue with him. And so, yeah, I think there was a real human touch to all of the people that I I spoke to which Sean through for me has been a reason, one reason for their success. There’s obviously other factors. But one real big reason is what I would put it down to,
David Ralph [33:22]
because I, I come from the City of London many, many years, and I had this these two word, phrase that really strikes fear into me middle management. And I generally find that the top guys are great in every company I’ve worked for the top guys are great, they want their company to be thriving by one, the staff to love it. But once you get into the middle management, it’s totally different. Can you see the same in sports business is that the same that the top guys really have a vision might have a passion, but the middle management are kind of frightened of losing their own job. So they suppress it somehow, and it doesn’t get down to the masses.
Cody Royale [34:01]
I think the the top end, the guys we see on the news, and I reported on in professional sports, whether it be in North America, whether it be in the UK, those actually are the middle managers, per se. So they they touch the actual production engine, which is the team. And so you know, the general managers and the coaches, when they’re speaking on the TV, that their vision actually touches the people that are going to go and execute that vision. And so you’re right that there, there is a disconnect in the business world where it’s great to have this really inspirational CEO, and he’s on this program, and he’s talking about this vision, but that never gets through that middle layer. Whereas, and this book is written specifically for middle management, because those are the people that are really dealing with the teams. I think there’s, there’s a lot that you can learn from the way that coaches and general managers in pro sport execute on that vision. And now one of the things as an example is, the reason I wrote about recruitment, leadership culture and high performance is that those things aren’t siloed or shouldn’t be, they should be connected. So the reason they’re in that order, is you recruit people into your organization, you’ve made them you build a culture around them, and then you manage how they perform. And so all of those things are treated in the business world as being siloed. But really, there is a complete, you know, energetic flow to the whole thing where, you know, one example is if you lie to people at the interview, you know, as the as the middle manager, yeah. How do you think that relationship is going to go from there, it’s, it’s same as a normal relationship with your keep lying to each other. And so you’re going to keep lying to each other all the way through your employment contract with that person. And so, you know, there’s things like that where I think you middle managers in, in business should be looking at the top what seen as the top end guides, in professional sports coaches, and presidents and general managers and learning from their mistakes, but also learning from their philosophies,
David Ralph [36:15]
because I’ve got a guy coming on the show next week. And he is a guy who walks around wearing a bright yellow, top hat and suit, and he’s bought a team called the savanna bananas, I believe. And he realized that in baseball, a lot of time nothing happened, it was like just hour upon hour upon hour, people walking out there with a bat and a stick or whatever is golden, swinging, not doing anything. So he kind of brought the element of circus into the audience. So let the audience have got something to look at at the same time. And subsequently, he sold out literally every single game. And he’s Entrepreneur of the Year really sort of inspiring, but he believed them about, it’s the bridge between the audience and the business, I have a sports team, where there’s a disconnect, people are finding it an alienation, because I can’t quite equate to the salaries, the effort, the prestige, that the sports team is showing or not showing. So he wants to sort of create something that works in the audience situation. That’s good idea, isn’t it? But he’s making a team in the audience and a team on the pitch and together bringing them together somehow.
Cody Royale [37:29]
That’s a great idea. And so he just purely wears a banana colored clothing. Now,
David Ralph [37:36]
Yes, he does. Every time I’ve seen him, he wears a suit, bright yellow with a banana top hat. And he’s got two baseball teams, one called is Savannah bananas, and one called somehow so common what he was. And he literally, as he says, He believes that the biggest wins are by doing something different. And creating a buzz by being unique, authentic, but always focused in on the customer. And if we can bridge that gap between the customer and the sports team, so there is a synergy between the two of them. When you really cooking on gas. And we see over in the United Kingdom, I’m a great advocate now of what we call non league football, where you’ve got the professional game, and when you’ve got the ones, and they’re not very good players, to be honest, you know, but they seem to work a lot harder. And then you see the teams playing for Manchester United or whatever. And you go, Oh, he’s lazy. He’s not even trying what he might be even better Ben Ben when I’m watching, but I feel more of a connection but a non league because then they they’re not millionaires, but not distant from me. There’s that synergy. There’s that connection between the two of us?
Unknown Speaker [38:45]
Yeah, all great points there. And one of the things that I’ve realized through this process is people keep coming to me this question is, what about the sports is kind of a cliche. And I agree with kind of those does premises that you’d be talking about where there isn’t, there is a disconnect, and I fully understand it between the millionaires and, and, you know, average Joe on the street. And, but what I think he is, and what what old Savannah bananas made has done over there is, is create something very human that that human element that I was talking about with the interviews that I was doing, that’s just another way of portraying that same human element is bring that circus atmosphere and you know, the circus is all about people, and entertaining people. And so there’s this very human element that kind of translates across everything. And I think one of the things that I’m imploring people to do, and I’m pretty clear about in where others quantities, I don’t, I’m not asking people to run their business, like a sporting organization, what I want you to do is dig a little bit deeper into how how they got into those positions. So Manchester United, for all for all, it is a wonderful club in a huge enterprise globally, but at the end of the day, their product, and what they do is is just people. And so if you dig into how they’ve become successful and how they recruit, and then granted, they’re recruiting millionaires, but then how do you need millionaires. And you know, that there’s, if you really dig into it, what you find is that there’s commonalities like I was talking about before with the executives having skills that I didn’t realize there’s some commonalities in what we’re all doing, that I think shows up in professional sports, probably better than it does in the corporate world.
David Ralph [40:38]
And somebody like Alex Ferguson, Sir Alex Ferguson, the ex Manchester United manager, he now stands up in front of Harvard, and actually talks about leadership, it’s a big connection with what you’re doing.
Unknown Speaker [40:51]
Yeah, and funnily enough, Sir Alex was, I almost got to him for an interview, he was one that I end up saying, No way, the end. But in terms of kind of, you know, connecting random dots. And I have a blog written about this, hopefully going to publish sometime soon. But, you know, he’s someone that I wanted to speak to as kind of the best the end of leadership in, in professional sports, and I end up having to reach out to his biographer, who just so happens to be worth, I think, $3.8 billion. He’s a partner in Sequoia Capital, in San Francisco, who are invested in Facebook and Twitter and tech startups. So Michael Moritz is his name. So I didn’t know time, but like, how do I get to Sir Alex might reach out to his biography, as authors, you know, tend to help each other, like this guy’s an author, blah, blah, blah, ended up sending him an email and, you know, within 15 minutes, he responded and send me over to Alex, his manager, who is his son and, and so I almost got an interview for the book, Mr. Alex, which would have been huge, obviously. But yeah, he’s, what he’s achieved, and now what he’s doing in terms of passing on the knowledge, and, and also looking at different ways to disperse his knowledge, not Harvard Business School, you know, taking his own experience there. That’s something that I would strive towards doing, I’d love to do that sort of thing and, and be able to go and interview all these people and then share that information with, whether it’s schools or other companies or your online on the YouTube channel. That’s where I think I want to go with this, ultimately,
David Ralph [42:26]
I guarantee you’re doing it, I have no doubt that you will create your own door. And that’s the thing when you start this, you, you use the doors that are already there. And a lot of people will be banging on closed doors, when there’s an open door about three inches to the side, when you learn it’s easier to go through the door that’s already open. But once you start building your own doors, you’re really flying on you and I see you on road co creating your own channel, because what you’re doing Cody at its core, is you’re touching into two amazing things. One people like people, people are interested in people, people are interested in stories of success. But people also really passionate on sports. And fusing those two i think is is an amazing way to go. So I have no doubt people and I’m going to save his life on the show. But you watch out for the name of Cody royal, and you’ll be going, Oh, he was on that podcast, he’s doing really well for himself is that podcast still going and I might come across and check me out. And I will be here with the spider webs and the cobwebs all around me. While you’re you’re talking to Alex Ferguson not understanding a word he says. He’s quite difficult to understand. But I’ll tell you somebody who is really easy to understand. And so we play his word every single day is the late Steve Jobs, he created the whole format of what has become join up dots Let’s listen to him Steve Jobs
Steve Jobs [43:48]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leaves you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [44:23]
So you study English, you study HR, you’ve got an interest in sports, you now written a book, it’s all coming together, those words were written for you when they
Unknown Speaker [44:34]
absolutely he couldn’t have put it any better the and and it’s exactly right. I think one of the real challenges people have in this day and age is we’ve kind of taught ourselves, you know, through this process of wanting to become more efficient that everything needs to be linear. And it really doesn’t. And I’m a prime example of that. All I ever wanted to do was Ozzy rules player, a professional and all my eggs in that basket when I was growing up, didn’t quite make it ended up studying human resources. Because my stepdad at the time was an executive wasn’t particularly interested in that discipline. I didn’t know what I wanted to do, you know, wasn’t particularly comfortable in Australia moved overseas on my own all these different things. And it’s led me on this path where literally, like Steve says, I couldn’t see forward. But I created an environment where I was comfortable not knowing where I was going. And I think there’s a lot that we can that can be learned from that from listeners from your show is you kind of have to be comfortable knowing that you’re just going to open the door, or you’re going to walk through the door that’s already open and see where it takes you. And it’s all a learning experience, regardless of the outcome.
David Ralph [45:54]
So just to sort of emphasize your hustle. Where about see you now what what time is it that you’re actually recording? This
Unknown Speaker [46:03]
Cody Royale [46:08]
So I was up at about 530.
David Ralph [46:10]
And is that earlier than you would normally get up?
Cody Royale [46:14]
About 15 minutes earlier than I would normally get up.
David Ralph [46:17]
Now were you just lazy then I I was picking you up, I was gonna make you seem like some hustle monster that was getting up at crazy times to do this. But it’s been an absolute delight to speak to you. And it’s going to be an absolute delight, send you back in time on another journey to connect up your dots on the bit. We call the Sermon on the mic when we’re going to send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the young Cody, what age would you choose? And what advice would you give what we’re going to find out because we’re going to play the theme. And when it fades, you’re up. This is the Sermon on the mic.
Cody Royale [46:57]
Here we go.
18 year old Cody disease 33 year old Cody, what I want to tell you is that I want to employ you to explore more. I want you to go out and challenge yourself more from an earlier age and open more doors for yourself. explore what you’re interested in, but also explore what you’re not interested in. You were so focused on rz rules and this this one career that you overlooked some other interests that later on in life might come back to you. But I want you to go and have a grounding in in those things and understand that everything is an experience. And everything is a series of decisions. And those decisions sometimes add up. Sometimes they don’t. But ultimately, they’re going to set you on a path for success. But only by going through the doors. Will you be able to connect those dots and then lead yourself into that success. So go and explore treat life as a journey. Enjoy the journey, not just the destination. And yeah, if I if I have one piece of advice to you, Cody 18 year old explore more.
David Ralph [48:31]
Excellent, excellent advice. So Cody, for the people that have been listening, what’s the number one best way that our audience can connect with you and of course, get their hands on your book.
Unknown Speaker [48:42]
So the book is only available at the moment through Amazon. So you can log onto whether it’s amazon.co.uk or amazon.com. and search for where others want or Cody royal. Apparently it comes up with both Dave and I have an Amazon myself, so I’m not too sure about that. But that’s the best place to grab the book. There’s also where others want.com, which is where I want to continue the conversation. So there’s more blogs and more ideas on that site that it didn’t make the book or we couldn’t quite fit in or have come to me after we published. So you can log on there and, and and have a look at some of the you know the secondary ideas,
David Ralph [49:26]
we will have over links on the show notes. And of course you you can jump over to join up dots and we will have a link to Amazon as well to make it as easy as possible for all of you. Cody, thank you so much for spending time with us today joining those dots. And please come back again when you got more dots to join up. Because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Cody world. Thank you so much.
Cody Royale [49:50]
Thanks, David. It’s been a blast night.
David Ralph [49:53]
Mr Cody Royale. So he’s in Australia, when he decides to move to Canada, when he decides to write a book when he decides to knock down doors and have conversations with these people. So if you’re out there, and you’re listening to that, and you think I can’t see doing that, why don’t you Why don’t you go out, go over to his website, have a look around and see how he’s done it. But I always say to people, if you’re doing the impossible, then the impossible is hard. But if you’re doing something that other people have already done, been going, deconstruct or connect with them and say I’m inspired by you, I love what you’re doing. I’d like to do the same Could you give me any help whatever. People always will or more often than not they will so you don’t have to recreate anything, you can just look at it and deconstruct that’s the way of doing it. Till next time thank you so much for being here on join up dots keep saying we’ve got good stuff coming along got good stuff. And each one of you could be future guests on join up dots by creating a life that you deserve, just by taking action. Until next time, we’ll see you again. She is see
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you are wants to become so he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to join up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on join up dots.