Welcome to the Join Up Dots business coaching podcast interview with Doug Sandler
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Introducing Doug Sandler
Doug Sandler is my guest today, on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots business coaching podcast interview.
He is a man with over 30 years of business experience as an entrepreneur, business owner, and leader.
His book, Nice Guys Finish First is a #1 ranked Amazon Best Seller.
He specializes in making connections, building relationships and strengthening bonds both inside and outside organizations.
His speaking and consulting business is geared towards improving relationships and winning business through his time tested sales, service and relationship
He is a nationally recognized speaker, trainer and podcaster.
He has been titled by a leading social media marketing company in the top “100 of Social Media Thought Influencers to Follow.” and with his podcast with Strickland Bonner, The Nice Guys on Business, he has over 500 episodes and more than 1 Million downloads.
How The Dots Joined Up For Doug Sandler
But at his core he is a man who seems to be finding the love in his life more and more , and enjoying himself as he builds his business.
Now he is using that experience to help businesses and brands grow their audience with TurnKey Podcasting, where he takes away all the hassle from launch and producing a podcast to leave his clients with the time to do what they do best.
And enjoy their own lives in the process.
So is this a business born out of his own painful journey into podcasting hell, or simply an idea born from multiple conversations?
And is he where I suggested in the intro, that enjoyment is the driving force in his life, or simply very good at hiding it?
Well lets find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr. Doug Sandler
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Doug Sandler such as:
How the majority of podcasters aren’t making any money on their podcast, and why that is quite an easy thing to change quickly.
Doug shares how people take four years in their business before they really grasp what they are building. Many detours are taken until clarity is achieved.
We discuss how it is so important to invest in yourself to fast track your progress. Don’t think of it as expense, but instead look at it as something that you are stupid not to do.
Why Doug will only focus in 2018 on his zone of genius, and how both him and his team see this as a huge improvement for everybody concerned.
Books By Doug
How To Connect With Doug Sandler
Return To The Top Of Doug Sandler
Every other episode to enjoy and consume can be found at Join Up Dots Podcast Archives
Audio Transpiration Of Doug Sandler
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. join up dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK David Ralph
David Ralph [0:21]
Yes, hello, a good morning, everybody. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. I should get to this straight away because this is a show I’ve been looking forward to. His name popped up in front of me and I thought, I know that guy. I know that guy. I love him. I love him because I actually was on his show. And he basically insulted me for about 45 minutes. insulted me insulted the English people. I think he insulted royalty. Anything that he could direct his anger and he’s very mad, and I tried to bash it back as fake news, but I couldn’t it came out anyhow. He is a guy with over 30 years of business experience as an entrepreneur, business owner and leader. His book nice guys finish first is a number one yes, number one ranked Amazon bestseller. He specializes in making connections building relationships and strengthening bonds, both inside and outside organizations. Now he’s speaking and consulting businesses geared towards improving relationships, and winning business through his time tested sales service and relationship building system. He is a nationally recognized speaker, trainer and podcaster. Now he’s been titled by a leading social media marketing company in the top 100 of social media for influencers to follow, and with these podcasts with Strickland, Bonner, and you’re going to have to go and listen to it because he sounds like Winnie the Pooh. But nice guys on business. He has over 500 episodes and more than 1 million downloads. But at its core, he is a man who seems to be finding the love in his life more and more and enjoying himself as he builds his business. Now he’s using that experience to help businesses and grow their audience with turnkey podcasting way takes away all the hassle from launch and producing a podcast that leaves these clients with the time to do what they do best and enjoy their own lives in the process. So it’s a business born out of his own painful journey into podcasting hell, or simply an idea born from multiple conversations. And is he where I suggested in the intro, that enjoyment is the driving force in his life, or is he simply very good at hiding the pain? Well, let’s find out as we bring into the show to start joining up with the one and only Mr. Doug Sandler. Good morning, Doug. How are you sir?
Doug Sandler [2:36]
Oh my gosh, this feels like a total radio show. I am so excited to be here. David. I cannot even begin to I could listen to you read the phone book. You just have that kind of amazing way about you on great voice so good to be good at Good to be here. Am I I’m assuming I’m in? Am I live? Or am I is this recorded? So can I say any bad words? Or do I have to hold all those back?
David Ralph [2:54]
You’re alive? You’re on Facebook, you’re on Instagram. You’re on Pinterest, you’re on all these platforms? I have no idea about. I’ve even got a hot air balloon floating across my face on it. Wow. Now it’s a pretty it’s pre record. But you don’t need to use bad language. There’s always better words. I know. I know. I know. You’re not the president. Oh, yeah. You know, just podcaster you can find better words to use.
Doug Sandler [3:23]
See that? I didn’t even I wasn’t even the first one to throw the first bar. But you already hit our president. But But well deserved those. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you for having me on the show david excited to be here. Is it true? Do you actually do? Are you doing this from your garden right now? Because I’ve heard that intro many times before. And I have always wanted to ask you that question.
David Ralph [3:42]
Well, I’m not in my garden. Well, I suppose I am. But I’m not actually sort of surrounded by flowers. But my recording studio is a proper little building at the back of the garden. So if you if you step up the bucket and what I have found, which is very interesting with gardens, no, it actually isn’t interesting at all. I don’t know why I’m even saying this. gardens are incredibly dangerous at night time, even though it’s your own garden, you Well, in your house, you can quite happily walk around your house with the lights off. And you can sort of just know where things are. And you can sort of like live a life like it like Helen Keller or Stevie.
Doug Sandler [4:21]
Ray Ray Charles, why didn’t you just throw Ray Charles in there to
David Ralph [4:24]
where you could have gone with him as well. Okay, and you can just find your way. Now in a garden, I don’t know, I can come up to my recording studio in the daylight. And when it goes dark. I walk out and literally for the last four years, I think to myself, God, I got a torch, I should have bought a torch with me. And I can’t find my way back. I am literally arms out walking past objects trying to get back until the moon comes out and then I can find it. So do you have a problem in your life? Do you have a problem where the simple things that you should have mastered after four years are still causing you a problem? And you think to yourself, I should have grasped this by now.
Doug Sandler [4:59]
Absolutely. I would call that in my house. It’s it’s called sex.
David Ralph [5:05]
on your own or with somebody else?
Doug Sandler [5:07]
Oh, no, both of those things. Yeah, I figured in a few years, I should have mastered that first one by myself. I can’t master that
David Ralph [5:14]
one either. Now I find I find the backing but you know, I just I get tired out at the begging stage. And so by the time he gets back, I think to myself, I can’t be bothered. Oh, the best thing, Doug, what I love to do is I think to myself, okay, you’ve refused me the last four times. Mrs. When you come up and you give me that wink? I’m not gonna let you have it. I’m not gonna let you have it. You have it? I’m not gonna let you have it. And of course she wins. Right? It’s the point and
Doug Sandler [5:44]
I blame I blame her. We’re a week we’re weak part of the species. I would agree. I would agree.
David Ralph [5:50]
We are we are. We’re just we’re just like dogs. We just run around sniffing ourselves scratching ourselves and taking what we can. So let’s, let’s get it on track. Let’s talk about your business because turnkey podcast, I was surprised actually when I went across and started doing my research. But you’ve got this business because this seems to be against everything that I knew you were doing. Yours was very much about relationship building and connection. And then you’ve got this as well. Is this superseding always this part of the whole plan?
Doug Sandler [6:23]
Well, it still is about relationship and connecting what’s really interesting is Don’t you want to provide your your market with the products and the services that they that they asked you for. So when I got into the podcasting space, going back probably about three to three years ago, actually, this week in February, I don’t know when this airs. But in February of 2015, we started this show. So we’re about 600 episodes in and what was really great about it was it’s been a great tool and a great promotional item for my my speaking business, my book, my online training my you know all everything that we that we offer everything that I offer. And it was about halfway through that run, then people started saying, Wow, you’re doing such a great job of promoting yourself, can you teach us how he was podcasting as a tool, and I said to my co host, Strickland at the time, who was still my co host, and now my business partner, I said, let’s figure out a way that we can tie all of this together. And that’s exactly what we did in the podcasting space. So we’re just teaching people how to do what we did through podcasting and promoting your messages.
David Ralph [7:16]
And what did he say to you? Would you like a snuggle? Is
Doug Sandler [7:22]
said, Oh, bother.
David Ralph [7:26]
Oh, I love the strict number. No, I’m gonna have to buy him a drink one day, because he’s got he’s got the most wonderful voice. So it was simply the case. But conversations came to you to a point that you couldn’t turn it away. It was some Yeah, I kept on building up. But now we’re turnkey podcasting. Because what I found with podcasting, in itself is the process of podcasting and growing an audience exponentially with minimum effort is what I’m interested in. I love the fact that with join up dots, I don’t use social media, I don’t use anything, I just do it the way that I’m doing. But the actual long teaching part kind of bores me, I like three steps down when somebody has already launched, they’ve got it out to the world. And then let’s take this big and grow it into a beast. You beyond them, what do you look at it and you go to kind of go, Oh, this is easy, oh, I don’t really want to be doing this. Or you’re quite happy to step back and see the problems, which you’ve kind of forgotten about now.
Doug Sandler [8:21]
Well, fortunately, we’ve built a team around us that can help with all the technical side. And I certainly don’t mind helping with the technical side. But I don’t know what the process that you go through with your clients when it comes to using podcasting as a marketing tool. But I don’t talk about it all building an audience I don’t even think it is I know it’s not from our experience. It’s not about building an audience, it’s building a great guest management program. Most podcasters focus on one or five things, they focus on advertising, they spot focus on sponsorship, affiliate relationships, calls to action for whatever they’re selling on their show to their audience, and donations, those so those five are how most podcasters try to make a living. But you would if you were to queue or to query, you 100% yesterday’s 99% of them are not making any money and not a sustainable amount of money to earn a living. So we took the focus off of building an audience and we put the focus more on building a pipeline of activity of guests that can come on your show that actually would be the ideal candidates for the products and services that you sell as a podcast host. So whether that’s sales training, or podcasting services, or heating and cooling systems for your home, we teach our podcasters that, yeah, let’s get you through the quote unquote, the technical, the boring stuff, let’s get you launched. But then let’s really start making your money. So you can make money from Episode One, rather than building an audience of 1000 or 5000, or 10,000. And that’s how we’ve done it over the last three years.
David Ralph [9:41]
No, I agree with that. Totally, absolutely, totally am. I just think to myself, a podcast is about building connections. It’s building relationships is building trust, integrity, whatever, I don’t sell anything on join up dots never did, because I didn’t think that was the way to do any. There was podcasters out there making a lot of money. And when you go over there, it’s just a sales funnel. It just annoys me. There’s there’s little quality, but it does surprise me. But where people are talking with palate, passion, knowledge, enthusiasm, and they’re sending that message out to their target audience, their avatar, why they’re not making any money. Why do you think the majority of podcasters aren’t making any money because I tell you not to share it too much. I’m doing rather well.
Doug Sandler [10:31]
Well, and we feel the same way. You know, what we the way that we look at it is that we just say big reason most podcasters aren’t making any money or enough money is because they’re focused on the wrong thing. If you start focusing on the right thing, if you start focusing on the things that can actually make you money, I mean, look at it this way, there’s three types of guests that you’re going to get on your show one that’s going to help you build your audience. And that’s great. But that’s only going to build your audience, you can’t cash a download, right? So you can’t go to Wells Fargo and say, Hey, I’d like to cash in my download for a couple of bucks. The second kind of guest is guests, it’s really going to build your ego, they’re going to be the the the the industry influencers in your world, the third kind of guest is going to be the one that’s going to build your bank account, the perfect storm is somebody that can actually fit into all three of those categories. But the issue is that most podcasters go after that somebody that can build their audience or somebody that can feed their ego and they don’t think about somebody, they can fill their bank accounts. So when you look at a typical podcaster that might do four episodes a month, and they haven’t made any sales as a result of that, whether it’s through their audience or to the guests, I look at their guests list and say, Okay, well you didn’t go over for you actually want over, over Oh, because you didn’t even have anybody on your show that was an opportunity for you to put into your products or services. So people look at the raw The reason people aren’t making any money at podcasts, you know, many people aren’t, is because unfortunately, they’re just not doing it. Right. They have their ladder up against the wrong wall, move the ladder to the other wall, not the old school old monetization model, but the new school new monetization model of interview based selling and and you’ll find out that you can extremely well and again, I agree with you if you’re if you’re not making six, seven figures from podcasting, you’re not doing it right.
David Ralph [12:07]
Yeah, I agree. So this ladder, you get up on the wall, obviously Strickland’s at the top of it. Do you ever have? Have you ever thought of moving it quickly leaving him hanging?
Doug Sandler [12:16]
I’ve done that many times. I’ve actually thrown him into the well.
David Ralph [12:21]
Because it is a case with a podcast. We I suppose we’ve all businesses, let’s get it away from podcasting. Let’s talk about businesses. Yeah, that’s what’s more interesting for our listeners. But it’s the case that you constantly, I would say, for the first three years, I’ll be interested, in your opinion, are putting the ladder up against the wrong wall, and you start off and you build something and then you get Oh, no, that’s not quite right. And then the second year, you go again, and I have seen it time and time again, through join up dots by talking to people, there seems to be a three year journey. First Year is all passion and all enthusiasm to do it. Second year is kind of it’s not going anywhere. Virginia is kind of Oh, I think I know what I did wrong. I’ve got to untangle this. I’ve been the fourth years when they get going. And it seems to be a three to four year process. What do you think?
Doug Sandler [13:11]
I completely agree with you completely agree. And I think the biggest concern that I always have, when I look at somebody as I’m coaching them through a life experience, or through a through a business process is that they are afraid to make the change, you know, change in the pivot. Joe Polizzi from content marketing Inc, I think he wrote a book called content marketing Inc, or something like that. But geopolitics, he talked about something like listen to the people that are closest to you that are buying the products and services that you have listened to what they want, they’re going to tell you just build, build an audience, build a network, build a build a following, and people will tell you what it is, that is your specialty, you won’t even see it. And people will tell you what it is. And as long as you’re strong enough to be able to make that pivot to that new product, that new service that you can provide, you’re going to be fine. But I agree with you david i think it is. Many people, they don’t give themselves in enough time, or they or they think I can’t believe it’s not working. And they’re they’re just two or three feet away from gold, and they just don’t even realize it.
David Ralph [14:07]
Now I see a lot of things in social media, I rarely go into social media, but when I do, I saw see adverts, and there’s one that keeps them coming up. And it’s um, I will show you how I got 349,567 email addresses without advertising. And there’s this new way of doing it. And I look at that, and I want to put my fist through my screen. Well, I’m not going to do it because it’s my screen and I need it for business. But I look at that. And I think to myself, don’t buy into it don’t buy into it’s not even if you did get 349,561 email addresses. They’re not the right email addresses. They’re not built on relationship. They’re not built on trust and not built in integrity. They’re just a numbers game. Is that a problem with business as well nowadays that people seem to think as we said beforehand, and I won’t say what you were saying because it was very very rude. But it sounds that matters and actually isn’t is what you do with it that counts.
Doug Sandler [15:04]
I think I think that if you grow all of those things, whether it’s an email list or your social media following if you grow it organically one on one building relationships or your your audience for your podcast, if that’s the space you’re in, or if you’re a mechanic building one customer one carburetor. And do they even have carburetors anymore? One fuel injection system at a time. I think that if you work that way, you’re going to be on the on the winning side. I think too many times people get caught and and you know, as well as I do in the in the podcasting space, let’s say people focus so much on downloads, and how many listens do I have? And while that is a number that we tell, we’re proud of it? It is a number that really is irrelevant. But since the public wants to hear how many social media following how many Twitter followers do you have, I don’t give a darn how many shows how many? How many Twitter followers that I have, if I have five or 10 that are sending me business or helping connect me with other people, other influencers that can help me build my business? That’s good enough for me and and why do I need to have 10 times 20,000 100,000 followers, if I have it great. And I’m happy to use that number. But it is not an essential component in success. Building relationships is
David Ralph [16:09]
the only thing that I want. And no one else is listening to this podcast. But I don’t care for the downloads, as you say, but I do care about overthrowing other podcasters I do. I had this kind of competitive edge. And it would be nice if you could go over to iTunes and see a big cross where you’ve overtaken somebody from whatever metric it was, and now you’ve moved up. Because it’s just so murky, isn’t it? You got no idea. You got people saying, Oh, I’m getting a million downloads a month, and then you go over to iTunes, you can’t even find them. And you think well, how is that possible? And then other people are saying they’re doing this, they’re doing that? I do have a competitive edge. And as long as I’m ahead of the nice guys podcast, I’m alive. I’m alive. That’s That’s okay. That’s my metric. But do you have the same thing? Are you totally in a Zen like state Doc, where you’re just, Hey, are
Doug Sandler [17:00]
you doing? You know, no, I completely I, I think the thing that keeps me going is that competitive edge when, when I when I did have access, and I still have access to the numbers, but when I focused on them more, it was just my self motivation. It was that I want more numbers, I want to do better it was where am I in the rankings on overcast? Where am I on the rankings on iTunes? Where Not that it matters? It does it? You know, and, and my partner Strickland kept saying to me, you know, that doesn’t matter, right? And I’m like, I know, I know. But it does matter to someone. So because it does matter to someone, it matters to me. And then I started looking at my clients and saying, strict, you know, we had the top four, four of our shows are the in the top 10 on on on overcast and the business categories. He’s like, it’s great, but you can’t you can’t take that ranking, and cash it in. It doesn’t matter. And but for me, it’s a metric that I can relate to. Because growing up it was always that Where’d you come in? What place Did you come into it? And it was like, Okay, all right. So I’ve got that in my head.
David Ralph [17:57]
And I think even down when I was growing, I used to sit there on a Sunday night listening to the charts, and seeing where my favorite record had climbed up, you know, right. And I think there, there’s a kind of a lack of competitive edge now, where everybody is a winner. You know, my kids go to school, and they will do a sports day and come back with 90 trophies and you go Well, did you do well, no, just turned up, just turned out and we got these 90 trophies. I don’t agree with that. I think there has to be winners and losers. And I think that in the world that we’re frequenting, I don’t think it’s clear enough. I you know, I want to know what I need to do to move to that next stage.
Doug Sandler [18:39]
I’m glad there’s winners and losers as long as I’m the winner.
I don’t want to be the loser. I’m I’m very similar to you to that respect. I mean, I I don’t wish ill upon anyone I don’t when I look at them in a competitive state. I don’t want to say, Boy, I hope you I hope you flop I look at it and say I hope I do better. I want to do
David Ralph [18:58]
isn’t that the same way?
Doug Sandler [19:00]
It is the same but it’s my it’s my perspective on it. I don’t want to just be nice on this show.
My whole brand and my whole brand is nice guy. Yeah,
David Ralph [19:09]
but we don’t buy it at so we know what Yeah, like we can see food is my listeners are clever. They know that deep down, you’ve got some kind of satanic symbol on the chest. Yeah, we’ve iTunes on it or whatever, we can see the dark side,
Doug Sandler [19:24]
I’ve heard that your listeners aren’t clever. You,
David Ralph [19:28]
Mike, my listeners are the number one the most attractive listeners out there. Either the women are gorgeous, the main are doubly gorgeous, okay. The ones that were not sure about bare gorgeous as well, every single one of them. They’re hugely intelligent, the only thing that they lack is that that ability to get going. And I find that from the communications that I have with them. Yeah, I’ve all sitting waiting for somebody to almost given the solution. But you know that there’s not the solution is just you go and make it up yourself, don’t you?
Doug Sandler [20:00]
That I completely agree. And that is not unusual. So the join up dots community understand that you’re in a place where most other people are. And I think that if you continue to listen to the experts like David you’ll find out that these are the steps in and the guests that he has on the show, because he’s got some amazing guests come on the show, you don’t have to take everything that every guest say to heart and get ever get it started today with every action item, take one action item from every show. And I’m going to give you a handful of them when we get to the next segment. But But take one action item and and put it into place. And you’ll find that if you just incrementally make these small little changes in your life, change the habits in your life. Very, very small, incremental changes. In the end, at the end of the year, you’re going to have this amazing new perspective and this amazing new outlook on your business because you’ve done all of these small, small things.
David Ralph [20:50]
Yeah, absolutely. There’s probably some motivational words. And then let’s delve back into that because that was an important speech, you made Mississauga, here we go.
Jim Carrey [20:58]
My father could have been a great to me, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.
Now, you were saying before that, that it’s about doing one thing after another. And what I think that people struggle with is the willingness to pay to gain that knowledge. I was talking to a guy last night and I was training him on podcast training and I rarely do one to one training it’s normally group but this guy was and I said to him you know Do you realize that in four weeks you’re going to gain four years of my struggles my trials my tribulations you could go to YouTube, you could go here you could go there but I’m going to tell you exactly what what works and what doesn’t from my perspective, and that is fast track now. Have you kind of scrambled around Doug in your past trying to get things pre looking at baseball and looking at that for them? Or have you been wise enough to actually say I’m going to pay somebody knowledge for somebody to experience because I know that will be leading me to the next door.
Doug Sandler [22:23]
Oh my gosh, that’s a great question. You know, in March of 2013, I met with my financial planner paid professional okay helping me to set my set my life straight from a financial perspective. August of that same year met a guy named Ryan asked is professional speaker engage the services to help me get to my speaking career. My next level hired a speaking coach Jayne Atkinson. She helped me put together my message My broke my promise statement, and my entire keynote speech, who led me to rob jealous book writing coach helped me put together a best selling book, I mean, that just just in the in the last five years putting for people and that’s just for people that I can think of right off the top of my head that I’ve engaged their services, because what’s the point of taking? You know, you have the expertise, you have a guy like David Ralph who has been successful at, I don’t even know how many episodes yet. What do you have, like 600,000? How many episodes have you done?
David Ralph [23:14]
Yeah, I think we’re about a fall away from 1000 now, and I’ve done about 80 to have another podcast that is for members only.
Doug Sandler [23:23]
Okay, that’s great. So 1000 if you don’t take the information, why would you ever get started in the podcasting space without using the professionalism and the expertise of somebody that has done it like David before you, it will fast track your your success, and it will fast track your learning curve so that you don’t have to go through five years, four years, three years of all that struggle, just take the take the information that David has, and and put it into play. And when you do that, you will find that you will arrive on the other side faster, more successful. And David’s is rooting for for you to actually Well, maybe not David but he’s probably rooting for you to do better than him. Okay, I know, I just learned something about David so maybe not better than him. But as good as him.
David Ralph [24:08]
My listeners can overdo but other podcasters now I’m gonna I’m gonna take you down, I’m gonna take you down. Okay. No, but But the thing that I think people have an issue with is they see somebody charging a coaching a course of save three grand with just a ballpark pick a free grant. And I think that’s a lot of my money, that’s a lot of my money, like, it’s going to be wasted money, what they don’t quite grasp is that they pay that three grand by getting that knowledge by Ben moved forward. And so their prospects have moved forward, and literally the next client, they will get that money back. It’s just like, it’s going up as a financial staircase, where the water is running down back into the bucket at the bottom. And I think that’s a big scary thing, isn’t it? People think it’s just wasted money. But it’s not it’s developing you and it’s making your prospects more valuable to yourself?
Doug Sandler [25:00]
What’s the value of your time? You know, what is the value of your time? Are you telling me that a year of short trial fast tracking something isn’t worth $3,000? That to me is is crazy to think that now, it could be that you don’t feel secure that this is the direction that you want to go. So it’s not about the cost of the services that David or anybody that else in that space is charging you it’s more about the the inability to be secure with your decision that this is the right direction to go. Now, how
David Ralph [25:29]
do people know this when Mr. Sandler? Okay, we’ve been talking about the ladder being up on the wrong side of the wall. And then flipping back, we’ve been talking about the three year journey. How did you decide about this was actually a path you wanted to go into? Because in many regards, I imagine it’s it’s probably not as bad as it was when I started four years ago. But certainly if I say to people, I’m a podcaster. But you dribble out one side of their mouth, and they don’t and she understand what I’m doing. I actually then go, it’s like a radio host online. And then I kind of grasp it. How did you move into an environment that wasn’t normal compared to most of the people you were surrounded with?
Doug Sandler [26:11]
Well, I was, I guess I looked at it this way, I was tired of not making enough money to be able to support my habit of podcasting. So for me in the podcasting space, that was my challenge, I said, if I’m going to do this, why am I going to do this, like 99% of the other podcasters that are out there and not make any money, I want to be able to make money. And as a result, as a result of that other other podcasters came to us and said, teach me how to do this. Now I take that into the into the professional speaking world. Also, I said, I have to try to figure out a way to make a living at being up on this stage. How do I do that. And I looked at the people that were successful. And I just said I need to do what they’re doing in order to get where they are or beyond. And I don’t even think that what they’re doing is so amazing. all they’re doing is doing it more than I’ve done it. So I had to look at it and say how can I do there and I just studied the professionals and put in my own spin and and and we do it, we evolved into a great business.
David Ralph [27:07]
And you do have to get out there don’t you? If you’re thinking of being a public speaker, for example, you need to go and see people public speaking because I guarantee you’ll probably go 50% of rubbish. And you think really they’re getting paid for this? I would say probably 30% are you know, quite good. And then you get that cream at the top. And then you get a very good one. And out of the ones that I’ve seen normally is is one or two I go Yeah, he’s got it. He’s really got it. He’s good. But a lot of them aren’t very good. Anyway, rb and that holds people back they think that they’ve got to be really good to begin with. And I don’t I just need to be doing it and getting better in the process.
Doug Sandler [27:47]
Absolutely. But people look at those those people that are way up on that ladder that high up, you know that the Strickland Bonner of the world and they say how am I ever going to get there, I’ll never be able to get there and you forget, it’s not just one big leap have each rung of the ladder will will get you there incrementally, I would encourage people not to if they have a safe position where they are right now, I would encourage people especially if you have a lot of responsibilities and kids and and bills, which everybody has in school, don’t just jump you know, make it make sense for you financially make a make an educated guess about how long and set a goal. Once you set the goal, figure out what reverse engineer what it’s going to take to get you there in that period of time. And, and work backwards. And if you don’t know what the how to reverse engineer it and figure it out, find somebody that has done it before you let them help you. And they will and there’s many people that will actually help you and not charge you. There’s a lot of people that will just give you a little tidbit of advice one step at a time. And that’s okay, too. You don’t, it doesn’t have you don’t have to pay for it in order to have value out of it. So look for people, if you don’t think that you can afford it, look for people that can help you until you can afford it and then get those professionals to help you.
David Ralph [28:56]
Yeah, absolutely. And if you are struggling with that you can come across I’ve got three coaching group dreams, dancers Academy, through join up dots, just go to the Facebook page. And one of the courses that we give you is consequential thinking, and it’s a terrible, terrible, terrifying thing to do. But you have to sit there and you have to think right? If I’m don’t make any decision based on what I am at Now, where do I am now? Where would my life be in one years, three years, five years? So if you’re sitting there thinking to yourself, God, I haven’t got any money and you don’t do anything about it? Are you going to have more money in a year or you’re going to have less money, and it’s terrifying. And you literally realize that things are not going to improve unless you do something for yourself. It’s just the way of the world we wait for the answer to be given to us. Yeah, we wait for the lottery to come up. People do win it. I don’t know anyone who’s won it. You know, I’m the only lottery that is winning my wife’s hand in marriage. And I say that in case she listens to this episode.
Doug Sandler [29:55]
A good one.
David Ralph [29:57]
Yeah, but it’s true, isn’t it, you got to make that decision to start and it doesn’t have to be defining. We call it the slide of faith here, not the leap of faith, you put yourself in a position where you go, I think I’m gonna be all right. And then you do it. I did that. And I was never in a position to just leap. I had a family, I had a mortgage, I had all those kind of things. I got myself in a position over about five or six years where I took away all the debt in my life that made it easier, then I kind of started doing it. And you realize that actually once you get down to bare minimum, keep your lights on the figures financially, you why it’s not as bad as you think. And a lot of the things that you were thinking you had to pay out for you don’t actually need anyway.
Doug Sandler [30:42]
And I and I love in knowing a little bit about your your history, I love the fact that you basically shut down social media in your life because it was a time suck. And it also was a an unrealistic platform where you were seeing people only in their best light. And that’s sometimes especially if you’re very competitive, that’s discouraging, because you don’t feel like you can ever catch up to them. So the things that are you know, if if you’re if you’re joining up dots community would do nothing more than just turn off the TV. And put that time that they’re spending invested in television or, or activities that are not quite as engaging as as or profitable as, as work or or a new career or new direction. If you learn to turn those things off in your life, you won’t even have to spend additional it’s not like you have to, to, to find hours that are not even available. Those hours are available, you just have to figure out how to reorganize your time and work on a time management blend.
David Ralph [31:36]
Yeah, I agree with that. And now I have so much time. I don’t actually know I’m bored a lot. Because there was a time I was working all the time. And I thought this is ridiculous. So I’ve now put myself in a position that I’ve got a lot of free time. I don’t know what to do with myself, Doug, I think you know that there’s got to be more to life business. And once you’ve gone through a walk every now and again. It’s boring. I’m going to be slipping into becoming an alcoholic coughing because he’s the only thing that has to pass the time.
Doug Sandler [32:04]
Well, it suits you well, so we’ll do it nicely. Well done.
David Ralph [32:07]
Yeah, but I’m pornography. I’m gonna bring that back into my life. It’s gonna be like being a teenager again. It’s gonna be it’s gonna be amazing. It’s gonna be amazing. Well,
Doug Sandler [32:14]
again, you know, I, I’m happy you’re beginning to prioritize things in your life now.
David Ralph [32:20]
Yeah, you say you got to get your focus somewhere along the line.
Doug Sandler [32:24]
your priorities straight and you got it alcohol and porn. Perfect. Yeah.
David Ralph [32:29]
Now looking at alcohol and porn in a different way. But what it is, is providing a service for people to escape their problem problems really, that that’s that’s what it is. And everything in life is about moving towards pleasure, or escaping from pain. Now, no, do you know in your life, that you are not moving towards pain and pleasure? Because quite simply pain and pleasure is quite close. It’s so close. And I found myself skirting around that bit where I’m thinking, is this painful? Or am I actually enjoying it? I want out, you know that your life is right for you and your family. And you’re not actually digging a hole that ultimately is going to cause you some issues somehow?
Doug Sandler [33:13]
I think that’s a great question. I think I don’t know what the answer that I’m going to give you is exactly down the right path. But I’m going to I’m going to try to fit this into the right answer. Because I’ve recently made a decision. And this was just within the last few months that I’m only going to engage in things that are within my zone of genius. And I’m not saying that from an egotistical way, I’m saying that from I know what I’m good at the things that I’m good at, I’m good at relationship building, and I’m good at selling. And for me, those two things are the things that I only want to focus on in 2018. And in the last 30 days, 31 days since since since the stroke of the new year end, the tail end of last year, which is when I started this process, those are the things that I’ve that I’ve only focused on in my in my business, nothing personal. But in my in my business, our businesses done, I would I would say probably I can’t give you a percentage, you don’t know the percentage because I don’t want to lie. But I would tell you that our business is done drastically better as a result of me staying out of everybody else’s way within my organization. And I feel better in the process. I feel like I’m really now I don’t have to say no to something I can, I can just tell people know, in my organization, we have six people on our team, I can, they won’t ask me those things that are outside of that anymore. Because we’ve decided in 2018, that our goal was everybody that’s on our team is only going to do the things that they’re good at. And if we if we find something that we’re not good at, that falls into no one’s place on the team, we’re going to bring somebody in that will handle that particular responsibility. So from a Am I going down the right path, am I going towards the light or am I going towards the dark, I would tell you, if you do the things you love, you’re only going to go towards the light, you will not go towards the dark. And if you find yourself heading in that direction, find somebody to pick up that that that responsibility or that task or that or that that project that you’re working on that you feel is taking you into the dark side. Because somebody else’s dark side is your light side and somebody else’s light side is your dark side. So just handle it that way. And I think you’ll find your you’re going to be benefiting very much.
David Ralph [35:15]
As I’ve realized recently that I have got, I didn’t realize, but I’ve got a kind of creative control element. So if it’s something about, you know, an administration task, I can just hand it over easily. But when it’s something like the developing of a new website, but join up dots or the music, I will hire people to do it. But then I find it very difficult to just let them do it. And I’m kind of dipping in and going well, actually, I think we should do this, I should do that. It’s it’s an issue I’ve got to overcome, because I’ve realized that actually I’m paying these people because I’ve got the experience, they’ve got the knowledge. It’s not my baby, it’s my baby big time as well. Do you know what I mean? is it’s it’s something I’m so passionate about, should allow them to do it. But I don’t want them to screw it up somehow?
Doug Sandler [36:03]
Well, I think that you’ll find that if you give it to somebody that specializes in that, that you’re getting in your own way. And if you look at it and say maybe this maybe this particular thing, this creative angle that I love doing, and I love controlling, but I might not be the best at, I find that those are the things that are actually holding you back from getting to that next level of success. So if you say I’m a great guy and building wet, or I love to build websites, but you’re not a coding guy, and you don’t you kind of don’t know what you’re doing. I’m not saying you don’t, but you may not know what you’re doing. If you’re bringing somebody in into a position to be able to do that for you. Let them do their job, let them do everything. Let’s find out maybe there is more than one way to do it. And I think what you’ll find is if you take that time, that effort and that energy, and you focus on something else within your organization that you that you do embrace that you are good at and that you feel like you are you’re the right person to do that job. I think your level of success will be amplified tenfold.
David Ralph [36:59]
And when you have had that business meeting, and you all decided you were going to just do two things that you were good at. They kind of go Oh, thank God for bad, Doug. You’ve been interfering in our stuff every time you walk out. We try to right yes. Well, what’s what’s that kind of vibe that went around that people just went? Oh, thank God for this.
Doug Sandler [37:18]
Yeah, absolutely. Because we would all laugh if somebody sent me a spreadsheet and I hate spreadsheet. Somebody sent me a spreadsheet and asked me to do something from that spreadsheet I would start to get that that really that let me use a technical term that really ugly feeling like I cannot believe I’m looking at a spreadsheet I hate this. I don’t want to see it. I don’t want to look at it. It’s It drives me nuts. I don’t even want to focus on it. When I do that, it brings my quality of my work way down the crapper. So I look at it and say yes, they absolutely knew when they when I when we had that meeting or series of meetings because we bring this up at every meeting is this within your your, your your zone of genius? I would, they knew that it was something that if they took it away from them, they were so happy because I was not mucking it up and I would mess it up I really good.
David Ralph [38:04]
I think that’s fascinating. But I also see it as a big stumbling block for the the the newbies who feel like they’ve got to do everything. And they’re doing on every show string. And they’re trying to protect, what salary what income they’ve got. Are i doing and I’ve been proven, I know you’ve been through the journey I think everyone has, where you’re the marketing guy, you’re a sales guy, you’re a host, you’re trying to do Twitter images, you’re trying to do this and that and most of it, you’re not doing very well there’s there’s maybe one or two things that you become better at, but because your passions not in it. But it is a problem that people, I think they’ve got to just work through it until they don’t have to do it, I can’t see an easy option for somebody who’s starting a business, they don’t know the right direction. And they’re trying to protect the money that they’ve got. It’s kind of survival stakes, isn’t it?
Doug Sandler [38:54]
Yeah, I completely agree. In the beginning, I think that you’re going to have to do some of those things for two reasons. One, because you have absolutely no budget. But second, you don’t even know what you don’t know. So if if social media, which is something that I wrote heavily for five years, within my organization, I you know, from from the very get go, I was all about social media building in the in the audience building and, and all of that. And I discovered that after five years of doing it, I’m like, you know, I don’t even like doing this. I mean, I’m doing it because it was necessary to do. But once I handed it off, and I started to focus on the things that I love, which are relationship building and selling it when that happened, this whole, this whole project got it was different, it all took a different phase I love doing, I’m excited to get up and in front of my computer and in start to, you know, to chat with people about the sales process and about about, you know, about the entire, just how the relationships are working within my company. And that to me is is strength, strength, for sure.
David Ralph [39:53]
I love hosting join up dots. That’s me, number one. And I also love on facilitating the community that I spoke about earlier. And it’s something that’s been with me for about three years now. And I never promoted it, it was just one or two people that went into it. And then it became to about 20 to about 30 4050. And now we’re promoting a big time. But I realized I actually loved that stage. I love that stage of unsure ness, I suppose you could say it, you know, uncertainties about a website, where people are looking around, they’re trying to find the solutions, because you know that there’s going to come a moment that I realized the solution was able to time because it always is. It’s always in you wherever you can do naturally. And you can do really well. And you can do fast. That’s your business. And what Doug saying is he’s very good at selling. He’s very good at building connections. And he is he’s very good about Doug, is the fact that when I first connected with him, as I say right at the beginning of the show, he insulted me instantly. And I loved it. I loved it, because you have got an epiphany, not a penny, what’s the word, you’ve got an ability to understand other people’s vibes. And I bet the next person that came along, you wouldn’t have said that, you know, and that is the key thing to what you do very well you understand how people tick. And so you can be more matey with them, or more professional wisdom. And you can basically be that chameleon. And if we said to you how to do it dark, you’d probably get a lot and now it’s just something I’ve always done. Right?
Doug Sandler [41:27]
Right. Exactly. Exactly. The things. Yeah, the things that you gravitate towards the things that you’ve always done, well, why don’t you just stay in that zone, stay, stay right there. And you will have to do some things that you don’t want to do, especially in the beginning, if we’re talking about business, but what in what in business, you know, very similar to relationships, you know, there’s going to be some things that you’re going to involve yourself in personally in relationship that you may not love doing, but you do it because your your partner or your spouse wants to and it’s just all a part of compromise. It’s no different in business, you’re going to do some things in the beginning that you don’t want to do, eventually, you’re not going to have to do those things because you’re going to be able to put people in a position to do them. And that’s when your business will really take off. And I think that when you focus on just the stuff that you’re good at your business will will you will benefit because you’ll be enjoying what you’re doing through the course of your day and your businesses will benefit because you’re not interfering in the stuff that is not in your wheelhouse.
David Ralph [42:23]
Always good. That’s how we all need a duck sound lunar life. We do okay, we need him in like a box under his bed where we could be
Doug Sandler [42:32]
like, way too easy.
David Ralph [42:34]
We just sort of keeping them there and bring him out every now and again and feed him some Oreos pulling back in. And when we needed a burst of energy would pull him out and he gave us Yoda like advice. That’s what we need you guys have you guys have Oreos in the UK? Yeah. Yeah, I love Oreos, but I don’t like well, we we discovered Oreos in America. Never had Oreos before. And now they’ve kind of started creeping in. But I have two issues with them. I don’t like the white ones and the black. It is this is a hybrid one I want. I want the black ones. And I hate it when people pull them apart and eat them in pieces. shove it in shove it in and go for the next one. That’s what I always say. And my daughter is now eating Oreo ice cream. Which is like a really funky biscuit. It’s I don’t like those either.
Doug Sandler [43:21]
Oh, you don’t like those? Okay, but you got you have to great stuff there. I mean, I we we had breakfast at the wolves The last time we were in in London and that was just such a posh wonderful place and we went to to Harrods and we had so many great experiences I would in a in a in a heartbeat. Go back to London. I loved it. There’s so much
David Ralph [43:39]
yeah, we have we have polio. We have Ricky
playbill Yeah, we still have all that stuff.
And it’s great for tourism. People like a bit of history. That’s what we want. So and chimney sweep kids, we still have those. It’s really your end the Queen you actually have the Queen which is wonderful. Well we do not for much longer. I don’t know we’re going to be we’re going to be licking somebody else’s head on a stamp sooner would imagine because she What’s going on? He must be 90 behind machine 94 or something.
Doug Sandler [44:11]
She is she having a tough?
David Ralph [44:13]
She She looks like she’s just bouncing around. You
Doug Sandler [44:16]
know, why are you kicking her out of the castle that already?
David Ralph [44:19]
Yeah, I don’t know. But there comes a time. But my my nan, right. She died when she was about 82. She was fit as a fiddle and then suddenly went downhill really, really quickly. The Queen seems to be kind of speeding up. You know, she’s 92, where most people would be sitting there in her own body waste. And she’s going around the world, banging bottles on boats and stuff at the age of 92. She’s She’s lovely. She’s
Doug Sandler [44:44]
bagging bottles on boats and no sailors.
David Ralph [44:48]
Yeah, we don’t want the queen and banging where we’re going to move in a totally different direction. And we are because we are going to play the words of Steve Jobs. I knew I was going to have trouble with you Mr. Sandler. And these are the words that he said back in 2005. hugely powerful. And of course, it led to me creating join up dots is Steve Jobs.
Steve Jobs [45:08]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards. 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leaves you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [45:43]
you’ve traveled that path haven’t you?
Doug Sandler [45:46]
Yeah, I want to understand something between Jim Carrey and and Steve Jobs. Why can’t there be a sound man that can keep it so that there isn’t any reverb or feedback on that frickin microphone? What What is that all about?
David Ralph [45:57]
Don’t be so I know, Jessica.
Doug Sandler [46:01]
I mean, come on. I want to spend just a moment on that talk about somebody that’s passionate about what they do. We need a passionate sound man to be the guy that’s running the soundboard for both Steve Jobs and and Jim Carrey so that there’s no feedback. Are you telling me there was no sound check?
David Ralph [46:17]
Well, I imagine if you go back in time, the Sermon on the Mount with Jesus, I imagine he just stood there and he just spoken the thousands of people could hear him. I would imagine that’s what we need. We need somebody from the old days forward. But now you think so you want a bit of reverb, don’t you? It makes you feel like you’re in Wembley Stadium. It feels like you’re part of a community is is bounding around you he’s it’s coming from the front, the back the up the down the side.
Doug Sandler [46:41]
Yeah. But listen to the listen to the squeak the feedback that he’s getting in the microphone, I sometimes have a tough time following the message of somebody when I’m like, Where’s the sound guy? Where’s the sound guy? Sorry, I don’t mean to get off track. But that’s one of the things that I really fries, my fritters. I just don’t like when you have a guy that’s supposed to deliver this amazing message. And all I’m focused on is why does this sound and
David Ralph [47:02]
why isn’t any good? What does that say a little bit more about you than the word?
Doug Sandler [47:07]
I’m sure it does. What did he say? Again? I don’t even remember you can’t connect the dots to going forward only backwards? Yeah, absolutely.
David Ralph [47:13]
Yeah, you try to empower you move forward with trust with intuition with karma, whatever, you don’t have all the answers. But when you look back, more often than not, you go Oh yeah, I can see how I got here. I can see how I got here. It wasn’t, it didn’t make sense at the time. But now it’s almost a kind of weekly linear path.
Doug Sandler [47:32]
Absolutely. And if you look back also, and I and let me just take a little bit exception to what you just said, I always find that it’s not a linear path from A to B, it is a jumbled mess. If your life has not been a jumbled mess of project to project gig to gig experience to experience dots joining connecting a maze of dots and directions and and end points and fingers in different directions. If it hasn’t been that, then you’ve just been following a textbook life and what is the fun of that? What is the fun of that? Why can’t Why can’t you understand that you’re never going to get from point A to point B in a straight line. Life is a jumbled mess. Live it that way and enjoy it that way and embrace it expect it because that’s exactly what it’s going to be. Did you know because I said it was a weekly linear path. Did you get that? Now? Yes, yeah, you’re now you’re correcting me? You don’t you know you never correct your guests.
David Ralph [48:23]
No. I haven’t learned by a needy. I
Doug Sandler [48:28]
really haven’t. I’ve listened to several of them. And I’m like, oh my gosh. Is he really? Is he arguing with you? Right now?
David Ralph [48:35]
Makes it funny. It makes it Sparky. So what is your big story? Ben’s looking back over your life with the with the two of you, you and Strickland, in your tent with your cowboy hats on at the top of the mountain? Where Where have you? What was the big moment where you really thought yeah, this isn’t us messing around. Now this is this is a business this is asked me the sort of knowing our thing and moving forward.
Doug Sandler [48:58]
Well, somehow when I met Dr. 20 years ago, we were both represented by the same agent we’re in from the entertainment world. He is the lead guitar player in a band and I’m a DJ that has gone out and done luxury or, or or high end social events here in the in the Washington DC marketplace. When we met each other through the same Agent 20 years ago, we knew moving forward that we were going to be working on some project together, we just had no idea what it was looking back now, we could see all of the things, you know the things that we had intertwined, whether it was my DJ business or an entertainment business that I’d started or novelty business that I started through the agency and how he related through the the his positions at the agency as as management over there, we knew that we were going to end up working together. So going back, it’s obvious to see that we were destined to do some work together looking forward at the time, we just had no idea. So definitely a bunch of dots that were connected through my entertainment business into my speaking business, my book writing business, my training business into my podcast, which were me all right here to join up dots today.
David Ralph [50:03]
And it couldn’t be a better place to be, it’s been an absolute delight having you here. And it’s going to be a delight, of course pushing you through the Sermon on the mic. This is the part of the show where we send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the young Doug, what advice would you give him? Well, we’re gonna find out because I’m gonna play the theme tune when it Phaedra This is the Sermon on the mic is
Doug Sandler [50:49]
Doug E. This is the older Doug e talking to you. And here are some things that are extremely important. No matter what line of business that you get into, or no matter who you are dealing with destined to work with in life, I’m going to give you a five tips, five things that you need to put into action starting right now whether you’re four years old, and listening to this as little Ducky or whether you are someone that is a business person and 30 years old and building your career. First thing, make sure you return all of your phone calls. Okay, I didn’t tell you this was going to be a complicated thing, it’s going to be extremely easy return all of your phone calls. In the future, there’s going to be this thing called email. I know you don’t know what it is right now, because there’s not even computers as a kid. But right now, you have to understand that when you get there, you’re gonna have to return all of your emails, not only return them but answer all of the questions and emails because Doug, if you don’t return all of your all of the questions that are in those emails, you’re going to get another email asking you the other question. So make sure that you do that. Also, Doug, I must remind you, it’s extremely important because your mother was never on time, you need to always be on time to your appointments. 15 minutes late is not on time, you need to show up early for every appointment. So return your calls, return your emails, when you have emails, you’ll understand that you’ll get that later. beyond time every time. Another thing I want you to do. And just keep this in mind, no matter what promise that you make, you must keep it all the time, every promise that you make is a promise that you keep if you don’t, you’re going to you’re going to have people that aren’t going to trust you in life. And the final thing is you have to understand this, how important it is for you to communicate with people. If you’re not communicating on a regular basis with people, they’re going to drop off of your network and your network is your net worth. So make sure that you’re taking care of those five tasks, you will become a nice guy and you will be that person that everybody wants to hire and have in their life also. So doggy Those are the words that I’m going to impart my wisdom to you as the older doggy,
David Ralph [52:44]
Dogg for the people that have been listening out there who are either interested in the term key podcasting or having you as a coach or a speaker. What’s the best way to connect with you?
Doug Sandler [52:55]
Best way to get to me is just turnkey podcast.com there’s a comment taxied on there and just fill it out and I will reach out to you.
David Ralph [53:02]
Oh, he’s made it so easy for all of you. But we will make it easy as well. We’ll have all the links on the show notes. Doc, thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots and please come back again when you got more dots to join up because I do believe by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build a futures doc Thank you so much.
Doug Sandler [53:21]
Keep rockin David good to talk to you.
David Ralph [53:22]
Mr. Doug Sandler. Now he has got a podcast a nice guys podcast. And it’s good. It really is it plays to what I like about a podcast is entertaining. It’s fun. But there’s a message behind it is not one of these ones. These are one track podcast that you you get bored with. And you could hear that he likes to enjoy himself. He likes to have a laugh and why shouldn’t we? Why shouldn’t we all have a laugh and enjoy ourselves. It’s our life. And it’s our business. And whatever you do, you can bring that in. It doesn’t have to be serious, you can just be yourself. Be authentic and have fun. And as I say to all of you if you are, you know struggling to think about where you are heading in life, then join us our dream starters Academy at the Facebook group come over to join us. And we’ll send you out the 10 part video course. But it really does set the direction and it’s worked for probably 40 people now in the group. It’s a very small group because I haven’t been growing it we’re now looking to sort of bring more people in to help you. And literally every person bear has changed the direction of their life. Based on the content we provide. It’s quite powerful stuff. But until next time, thank you so much for listening as always. And I’m really am looking forward to the next show, whatever that’s going to be cheers sia
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you are wants to become. So he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to join up.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on join up dots.