Drew Davis Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast
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Introducing Drew Davis
Drew Davis is our guest today on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots free podcast interview.
He is a man who has worked so hard to where he is today, he has more lessons learned before the age of 30 than most people aged…well 30.
He is proof that hard-work and determination pay off’s as he climbed the ladder of the restaurant industry as many do: with a great deal of empathy, a little bit of luck, and a massive amount of overconfidence.
After graduating from Harvard in 2009, he worked his way up from being a busboy in Boston to being a beverage director for Momofuku in New York City, where he managed the buying, pricing, and selling of wine, beer, and spirits for the restaurant.
Through living through this experience, he decided that he wanted to have more ownership of the guest experiences he was creating, so he took to Chicago to see how Booth could help him open his own restaurant.
While attending Booth, our guest met his business partner, Hunter Swartz, and the two quickly realized that their shared background in endurance sports mixed with complementary work experiences could build something remarkable.
How The Dots Joined Up For Drew
He then joined the Eastman Egg team in January 2014 and served as COO for three years where in his time there, the company grew to four operating units and grew its revenues and team each by a factor of 10.
And now he is also the author of the latest book to fly off the shelves with “What I Learned Before 30 – a biographical look that captures some of the best, and worst, moments of his life.
As it says in the intro “I feel like i’ve finally learned that growing up to have different perspective than my parents was not a failure; it was the whole point. I cant wait to use the next 30 years to celebrate what makes us different, rather than resent it, and enjoy what a diverse, unique and wonderful family we are”
So, said in another way, he has found the path in life that is the right one for him, and although others may not understand it makes no difference.
And that is where we should all be, walking boldly into our own future and not one that has been constructed by the idealism of anyone else.
So will there be a what I learned before sixty book coming up, and does he feel that mistakes are the true gift in life?
And what does he enjoy doing most in his life, as he certainly has many things per day that could take up his time?
Well lets find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr Drew Davis.
Show Highlights
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Drew Davis such as:
Why Drew feels that so many people hold themselves back simply by lack of confidence in the decision making process of their lives. Not every decision is definitive, and will allow backtracking if needed.
Why the beginning stages of the startup process are so important to get your mind into an abundance stage of living. Not everyone has connected with every customer (even if they are already doing what you want to do in your life)
Why Seth Godin talks about how to create the smallest business possible when you start, which is liberating, sensible and allows you to learn as you go.
and lastly….
Why it is such a tightrope to walk, when creating a flourishing business, by being unique and also chameleon like. Being yourself with as much flexibility as you can to make the opportunities you need occur.
Books By Drew Davis
How To Connect With Drew Davis
Return To The Top Of Drew Davis
If you enjoyed this episode with Drew Davis then why not listen to some of our favourite podcast episodes such as Emilie Shoop, Leon Logothetis, Sean Swarner or the amazing Justin Deese
Or if you prefer just pop over to our podcast archive for thousands of amazing episodes to choose from.
Full Transcription Of Drew Davis Interview
Intro [0:00]
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:25]
Yes, hello there. Hello, everybody in Join Up Dots land. I tell you what this this show is absolutely flying at the moment. It’s, I say this a lot. Because in the entrepreneurial journey, you think that you hit a peak and you’re doing very well. And then suddenly, it goes up again. And you kind of think, Oh, I was only where I thought I was. I was looking over what is possible. But the show’s going up and up. And so it’s very, very exciting. So it’s a great time to have the guy on the show today who’s on the show, because he is somebody who fits in perfectly to the vibe of Join Up Dots. He’s a man who’s worked really, really hard to where he is today and he probably learned more lessons before the age of 30. Then most people aged well 30 is proof that hard work and determination pays off as he climbed the ladder of the restaurant industry, as many do with a great deal of empathy, a little bit of luck and a massive amount of overconfidence. After graduating from Harvard in 2009, he worked his way up from being a busboy in Boston to being an average director for a GOP Be careful RSA vs. Mo Mo buco. I think that’s how you say in New York City, where he managed the buying pricing and selling of wine, beer and spirits Balu restaurant pro living through this experience, he decided that he wanted to have more ownership of the guest experiences he was creating. So he took to Chicago to see how booth could help him open his own restaurant and while attending booth, our guests met his business partner, Hunter Schwartz, and the two quickly realised that their shared background in insurance sports mixed with complimentary work experiences could build something remarkable. He then joined the Eastman ag team in January 2014 and served as CFO for three years when he’s time there. The company grew. to four operating units and grow its revenues and team each by a factor of 10. And now he’s the author of the latest book to fly off the shelves read what I learned before 30, a biographical look back captured some of the best and worst moments of his life. As it says in the intro, I feel like I finally learned but growing up to have different perspective and my parents was not a failure. It was the whole point. I can’t wait to use the next 30 years to celebrate what makes us different rather than resent it and enjoy what a diverse, unique and wonderful family we are so said in another way, he’s found the path in his life is right one for him. And although others may not understand, it makes no difference. And that’s where we should all be walking boldly into our own future, and not one that’s been constructed by the idealism of anyone else. So will there be a what I learned before 60 book coming up? And does he feel that mistakes are the true gift in life and what does he enjoy doing most in his life, as he certainly has many things per day that could take up his time. Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots. With the one and only Mr. Drew Davis. Good morning, Drew. How are you?
Drew Davis [3:07]
I’m absolutely fantastic. David, how are you?
David Ralph [3:09]
I’m always fantastic. I’m I live in a world of feeling fantastic. And even if other people think I’m an idiot, deep down, I know they’re wrong, Drew, I know they’re wrong. And I think I’m, oh boy, I’m away. He’s a cocky way of operating, or do we all in our core? have to think actually, I’m pretty good.
Drew Davis [3:30]
I think you absolutely have to operate with the notion that you are better than good that I think you’re amazing. I think all of us have things that make us completely singular. And where we struggle is when we try and figure out why aren’t I like other people versus saying, How wonderful is it that I am just like I am. And I think the way you have the opportunity to do something more entrepreneurial, it’s so much easier to embody that because you realise that a an economic marketplace that is somewhat objective will actually look at you and say that what you bring to the table is valuable, and I appreciate it. And I like it, and I will spend money for it. And all of a sudden, you’ve got this wonderful sort of feeling of, of affirmation. So I think it’s, it’s not only a good thing to do, it’s completely imperative to find your version of that, that story.
David Ralph [4:17]
So So is that the kind of thing that holds people back where they’re in corporate land, and they basically wait for their quarterly performance, their annual reviews, and they spend their time basically being told what they’re doing wrong and it kind of chips away at their competence? Do they need to throw it away and say to their bosses, I’m here I’m going to work as well as I possibly can allow me to flourish. Allow me to make mistakes.
Drew Davis [4:42]
You know, it’s really interesting. I thought about that a lot. When I came out of my graduate school programme in 2014. I have a lot of friends who went the corporate route, and I’ve spoken to many of them and many of them are in this really complicated position where they’re not quite sure if they want to strike out they’re not quite sure if it’s the price. With the company or with them or with the nature of the role, and I think part of the problem is we have access to so much information that it seems almost impossible to make a complete decision. And that’s where a lot of paralysis comes from. So to answer your question about, you know, what, what is holding people back? I think it’s a lack of confidence and knowing that the decision they’re going to make is the right one. But the reality is like the idea of there being a singular or right answer to how you move forward, or how you evolve your career is crazy. There’s absolutely not one single way you can do it. There’s literally 1000 ways you can do it. And the real barrier is how you approach solving the problem and making the jump versus what you’ve actually chosen to do. Now, don’t get me wrong if you decide that you’re going to become a professional skydiver for money and you quit your job one day and expect income the next there are some gaps in your plan that are really going to slow you down. But if you told me I want to be a professional skydiver, and get paid to do it, and then you research how you get paid to be a professional skydiver Ever, what training and skills that you need, how much that’s all going to cost and how long that’s going to take. And then look at that in the lens of where you are professionally, you can lay out a pretty actionable plan to just go and do that. And that doesn’t matter if you’re a banker of your restaurant tour, if you’re an accountant, whatever. There’s, there’s no place you’re starting from that you can’t get to your goal as long as you understand where you are and where you want to go.
David Ralph [6:25]
There’s a guy on BBC TV, you won’t know him in America, but he’s our kind of football guy, our soccer guy. And his name’s Dan Walker, and he’s a really nice presenter. He’s the kind of guy that you imagine you could meet in a bar and have a few drinks with him and he just be a normal straight guy, you know, no airs and graces. And apparently Dan Walker, who was ahead of his game at the moment, wrote to somebody when he was about seven who was the leading exponent of football cometary soccer commentary and said to him, when I grow up, I want to do your job. What do I need to do to get it A guy nicely wrote back to him and said, well, you need to do this, you need to do that, and gave him like a list of about 10 things. And he methodically worked through them. And he’s at that position. Now, when you look at that story, you go, Wow, that’s amazing. I should have done that when I was 10. Is it as simple as that? Is it as simple as having that plan to follow? Or is there more a mental aspect drew that really comes into it?
Drew Davis [7:23]
I think it’s it’s a little bit of both right? I mean, a famous story, I will reflect back to you that I heard the other day. So Jim Carrey, the very famous American actor has been wildly successful, grew up with a lot of hardship and knew for a long time he wanted to be an actor and a comedian, but didn’t quite have the path. But he wrote himself a check for $10 million for acting services rendered and put it in his wallet. And this is 1,000% true. A couple of days before the date he put on that check. He signed a contract to do the movie Dumb and Dumber, and sure enough, was paid $10 million. So it’s partly having a really clear truenorth or Northstar rather that you know that you’re moving toward. And then it is the mental aspect to know that just because today I don’t feel like I made progress toward that goal doesn’t mean that I have failed or that I should give up or that I did it wrong even in the face of hardship or and sliding backward. It’s committing to the idea and the notion that you are capable of achieving that goal and that as long as you open yourself up to the different possibilities, how to get there, you can get there.
David Ralph [8:32]
And if you end up watching Dumb and Dumber, too, I’d like to think that Mr. Carey gave that 10 million back because I wasted about an hour and 25 minutes of my life on that sequel. Have you seen that one?
Drew Davis [8:43]
No, I didn’t. But it’s because the first one was so wonderful and brilliant and perfect for him that it would have been almost impossible to top
David Ralph [8:50]
Oh, why are you so clued up drew and I just ploughed into it thinking Oh, I love the witch. No, the second one’s gonna be brilliant.
Drew Davis [8:57]
Well, you guys are much better stewards of quality than we Are America has a lot of shit. So we end up with a lot of stuff that no one really wants to see and look at. So you learn, you learn to better filter, whereas you guys have a lot more that I would call respectable.
David Ralph [9:11]
Yeah to complain due to. So let’s talk about your startup sort of ventures because you want somebody that has been through so much, you know, you’re still a young man. But did you start at the right time? Because I see, some guys have to wait to the right time. And it could be that they’re in their 40s their 50s. But when they look back, they go, Yeah, I was ready to really stride out on my own. When you look back at your journey where you’re kind of early or where you just bang on?
Drew Davis [9:44]
That’s a great question. I think. I think in many ways, I was ready. And I was ready from the perspective that I felt really confident that a traditional career path would not work for me that was partly inspired by my background by my my time in restaurants. But it was very clear to me that kind of climbing the ladder, so to speak, was not going to work. So in that way entrepreneurship was perfectly timed. Because basically, as soon as I got into it, it was a very obvious that this is where I want it to be and what I needed. I think there’s no question that what I could have benefited from that I now have from my first entrepreneurial experience is a lot more self confidence, a lot more humility, certainly a much better understanding of how to work with people and how to inspire and motivate people. And I guess the question, I would reflect back to you and I’m curious, because you’ve spoken to so many people. And you know, I got those things because I took the dive into entrepreneurship proof before perhaps I was, quote unquote, ready, before I had every tool that I needed to have the perfect experience or to get it 100% right, quote, unquote, but now as a result of diving into something I wasn’t necessarily prepared for I came out on the other side with a much more robust skill set and much more Your sense of self, which I think will serve me so powerfully as I move on to whatever the next endeavours look like. So from your perspective, I’m curious, do you think that the right thing to do is to make sure that you have gotten call it 80% of the way toward what you need? Or is it pitching yourself off the cliff, and sort of learning how to fly while you’re falling?
David Ralph [11:21]
Definitely the foma I, we call it the slide of faith here where you, you sort of transition to a point where at least some of your bills are covered or you believe upskilled yourself, I don’t go with this, make a decision, jump off the cliff and try and make it up as you go along. Because now I’ve been through the journey. I’m sure in many ways, Ben, you would have sold like a maniac. You would work like a maniac and you probably would get it going. But it’s hard enough to do it when you’ve already transitioned to a certain point. And I think one of the things that comes out a lot in podcasting land and certainly my podcast is the Quantum Leap between being a call Put guy to an entrepreneurial guy. And we should really use the freelancing bridge where we go from turning up and being paid to almost getting clients given to us through to freelancing before we become an entrepreneur, because that is a big stretch to go from being comfortable with our monthly salary to being responsible for everything we earn. And I know that in the early days, I struggled because I was kind of unwilling to ask for help. I was unwilling to reach out in case I was interrupting people. Totally different ballgame now, so that’s my answer to that. I think slider pipe is the way to go. But I can also see how burning bridges and just jumping would work, but it’s certainly not for me.
Drew Davis [12:44]
Yeah, I think it’s a little bit about your energy levels, your risk tolerance, all of those things. I think some people function best when their back is against a wall, and they have no choice, right? It’s like it’s either let’s literally fail or die and for some people that that aggression, that that, again, that deep burning need to make something happen is what inspires these sort of superhuman efforts to get something off the ground. But there is no question that can burn your relationships that can burn out your life in many ways that can be incredibly challenging to maintain any sense of normal life around you. I think what’s interesting and again, if you have further thoughts on this, I’m curious, I think one of the things that I have struggled with, in the idea that you sort of keep your day job and sort of moonlight in doing something else is you know, how do you feel compelled that you are doing the best job you can when you’re working your your nine to five or your eight to eight, depending on on how hard that job is, in the in the frame of also spending a lot of your time and energy on this this new business that you’re doing. It’s obviously an increasingly common model. But that was something that for me, I always felt an immense amount of internal tension about and that again, is probably more about health. I’m wired, then about there being some objective problem. But again, I’m curious. I think that’s I think that’s something that I’ve heard a number of people say I want to go start being a freelancer, but then I don’t feel like I’m being honest with my employer. And that creates this this moral is maybe strong, but this kind of internal tension.
David Ralph [14:17]
I think that’s a very good question as well. You’re a podcasting legend and throwing it back at me. Now, I’ve been through this because I was in corporate land. And one of the things that I realised when I started to get Join Up Dots together, and I did it for about six months while I was still at work, before I could kind of transition is there’s so much dead time when you’re at work. Even if we go in and go, Oh, that’s busy. That was a busy day. We’ve gone off to the coffee. We’ve had a chat to that person. We’ve had our lunch. I don’t think it should encroach in any performance, if you maximise your time wastage so that when you get in there, you gave you a business idea, your employee, hundred percent, but you give your business 100 Hundred percent as well. And I certainly did that for about six months during lunch hours in the morning, in the afternoon. Nobody mentioned the thing because the actual performance of the job didn’t suffer. And I think that’s how you do it. You look at the time wastage, and you maximise your effectiveness in that extra time.
Drew Davis [15:20]
Yeah, I know that that makes 1,000% sense. And again, I’m a terrible person to ask that question, because I’ve never spent a lot of time in the corporate environment. So that’s, it’s again, my an opportunity to learn from you about your experiences, which I very much appreciate. So Drew,
David Ralph [15:34]
what would you call yourself at the moment? Because in the introduction, we covered so many areas, but I always loved this question. If you’re in the bar, and I know you’ve got a lady in your life, but in this scenario, you happen and some gorgeous woman comes up to you and sits by the side and says, What do you do for a living? What do you say?
Drew Davis [15:56]
So I mean, this answer changes dramatically by the time Depending on on where my mood is, because I’m currently sort of between projects, but when I hear you ask that question, when I think about presenting with confidence and bravado, I would almost call myself a spirit animal. And that I think one of my best qualities is the ability to sit across the table with someone and look them in the eye and make them feel like they’re superhuman, make them feel like they can go bust through walls and climb Everest and do anything and everything they need to do to be successful. And I get so much energy from that interaction. And so one of the things I’ve been trying to figure out is how do I want to employ that, that time, that energy, that activity that I so enjoy, and genuinely believe I’m really gifted with, in the context of what I go on to do next. And so that’s kind of been my, my current flavour of exploration. Let’s say,
David Ralph [16:55]
if a lady comes up to you drew, I’m not going to teach you how to date and you say, I’m a spirit Animal a goodbye, she she’s gone. She’s gone. She’s, she’s gonna think you’re a lunatic. And she?
Drew Davis [17:05]
Well, she might. But again, I what’s what’s the harm in that? That so again now this is this is something really interesting, I think there are two ways to look at success and opportunity. One is that there is a finite amount, and that you have to optimise around making sure that you get the maximum number of opportunities to be successful in your life. The other is an opinion or a perspective of abundance, which is to say that there is limitless opportunity to be successful. And I’m simply choosing which route I want to go down and which which opportunities I want to be successful with. So if if spirit animal didn’t work, it didn’t go over well, thankfully, I’m married, so I don’t have to worry about that ever again. But if it did not go over well, I have two choices. I can react and say what did I do wrong? Or how do I need to change to make sure that the next time she doesn’t leave immediately saying that there’s a finite opportunity, and I need to figure out how to change myself to make myself more available to the opportunity that comes. Or I can say she wasn’t a spirit animal gal, that’s totally her choice and where she is in her life, I’m going to hold out for the person who hears spirit animal and says, That’s fascinating. I want to learn more. And it may take one, it may take 10, it may take 100. And then the question becomes, how dedicated Am I to that, that idea, or that, you know, whatever you want to call it, to dedicate myself to that much rejection and failure, and for better or worse, I don’t know if it’s that I have a thick skin or I’ve just failed a bunch of times. And so it doesn’t bother me. Like, I can do that for a long time. Because it doesn’t bother me that someone doesn’t immediately resonate with something that that I would say, I mean, even you I’m sure you are that you’re like, That’s stupid. And that’s fine, because that’s obviously your opinion, but that doesn’t necessarily change how I feel about that idea or that word.
David Ralph [18:58]
Does that make sense? It makes total things and I’m gonna play some words now. And then I’m going to delve back into that because you said two or three things there that fascinate me. We’ve heard from him before, or at least you spoke about it. He’s Jim Carrey.
Jim Carrey [19:09]
My father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.
David Ralph [19:36]
Well, as he was talking about that lady, one of the things that struck me in the introduction and all successful people, they get to a point when they’re okay with themselves and they’re authentic to themselves, and they’re not putting on any airs and graces. And up to that point, I would have said you was bad guy. But then you mentioned about changing if the answer wasn’t what she wanted, you would change but is there another of chameleon, but is involved in creating your businesses and your startup Do you need to be more flexible in this fact that we hear you got to be authentic, you got to be unique to yourself is once again just part of it?
Drew Davis [20:14]
Sure. I think it’s such an interesting tightrope to lock. Right. And I think I will do my best answer. But if I’m skirting the question, please call me out and I will give you a better answer. So I think, obviously, authenticity is important. And partly, her our reference to diamond number two, it’s because lame bogus, manufacturered stuff doesn’t go over? Well, it’s not funny. It’s not interesting. It’s not engaging, and it’s not valuable. So there isn’t some level of authenticity, then I think you’re not really delivering value either through a product or service to anybody. At the same time. I think we, and when I say we, I think I say entrepreneurs, people who are type a people who are very confident, we lose track of the fact that when you’re committed indicating one other person, that which is obvious to you is only obvious to you. And so if we don’t have some ability to modulate who we are and how we present to other people, you obviously risk losing out on a lot of really wonderful conversations and connections and not for a good reason. But because you’ve convinced yourself that if I’m anything other than 2,000% Super rigid, this is me Take it or leave it, you know, hit the road, if you don’t like it. I think there’s a lot left on the table. So it’s finding the right middle ground of being yourself and being authentic, but you know, having some self awareness having some emotional intelligence, reading the other person and so it’s funny, when I think about the answer I gave you about spirit animal, you know, you describe, you know, you’re in a bar, you’re on the lookout, and it’s a really beautiful woman like to me, I’m going to swing for the fences. I’m not going to try and play some quite game because I think that’s the type of energy I get from looking at that interaction. It was Someone who is much more shy and maybe reading a book at the bar, I don’t think I would walk up to someone and say, Hey, just so you know, I’m a spirit animal. Isn’t that awesome? That’s the wrong approach. So it’s a, it’s a little, it’s as much about the context and the person when it comes to how you can be a chameleon. But I don’t think that necessarily sabotages your ability to be authentic in either those interactions, even if they look and feel different to an outside observer.
David Ralph [22:26]
So one of your expertise is the kind of startup magic where you can create something can grow it to a certain point. And so taking the point that we’ve just been discussing, one of the things that people struggle with is coming up with an idea which is unique and authentic. But we’re startups we see it time and time again, but actually, it’s taking something that’s out there already, and then putting your own spin on it. So being authentic around something that can be a chameleon that can sort of go in any directions. Is that one of the best ways to actually start business by looking around and seeing what’s working already in this world of abundance and limitless opportunities.
Drew Davis [23:07]
I think it’s a great place to start. And I think a lot of people psyched themselves out by saying, Well, if someone else has already done it, or if 10 people have already done it, then how can I do it? And I mean, there’s there 7 billion people on the planet. So the likelihood that there’s a good chunk out there who hasn’t seen what’s out there or who hasn’t been served by what’s out there is astronomically high. So yeah, I think particularly if you’ve never started something before, and you are just burning and itching to go do it, there is no shame in saying this is what someone’s doing. I would do a different spin on it. That’s where I’m going to start and I’m going to dedicate myself to that. I think that’s a brilliant place to start. Another thing I would say that I would steal from an entrepreneur named Seth Godin. He talks a lot about the idea of what is the smallest business that you can start because sometimes it particularly in the in the language of entrepreneurs, Should we talk about, you know, what’s the market size? How many people can you reach? What’s the total amount of dollars you can make? And you basically start with the top of the funnel? You know, how big Can you get it? And what Seth argues that I think is so smart is, what is the smallest company you can start? What can you do? What can you make that will help 10 people, and go out and help 10 people and then get feedback from them on what it was that you did that was really helpful to them. And then if you serve them, and you listen to them, they’re going to go tell one person each, let’s say, and now you have 20 people, and then you learn from them, and you go from them. And then you realise that you’re offering 10 things, you only need to offer five, because the five things are what’s actually delivering value. And then those 20 people tell 50 people and all of a sudden you have this unbelievable multiplicative effect that didn’t start because you said I’m going to go after a $20 billion market. It started with I’m going to figure out how to make 10 people have the best day ever. And then once I do that, I’m going to learn from them that what I did that gave them That best day and then I want to go replicate that for just a few more people. And I think that is it’s a it’s much less intimidating, right? Like, you can think of 10 people in your life that you can make happy. But it’s not that hard. So if you can make 10 people happy, why not start with that? And then understand, you know, how much would you pay for that? You know, what about my services were really authentic and interesting to you, and then use that as a base to sort of grow. And particularly in the context of what we’re saying about if you’re going to do that, while still engaged in corporate, you know, building a business around 10 people is definitely something you can do in a few spare hours, trying to build a billion dollar company from day one. I mean, that’s, that’s not a part time gig. That’s full time all the time forever.
David Ralph [25:45]
When I started Join Up Dots, I went at it because I wanted the number one show, and honestly, I’m very competitive. If I’m going to do something, I’m going to do something with every effort, but I can sort of push into it. And then it got to a point where I thought Hang on, I don’t think This is gonna be the number one show. And so I started reassessing. And what I did then was started breaking down all the factors that could be making a difference and maybe holding me back and actually looking at it like an analytical experiment. And I totally forgot about my original goal of becoming the number one show ever, because I suddenly gained a realisation that it didn’t matter. The only thing that I needed to do in the early days was Cover me bills, just cover my bills. And if I can get back to the same financial position that I was in corporate land, by the efforts that I’m putting in now, that’s good enough for a period of time. And that’s what I did. I went from having this frenzy of trying to get to the top of the chart to actually becoming an expert in the game of podcasting and spending time, breaking the system looking at how this works. Looking at how that works. Funnily enough now I’ve got that I realised that the actual original dream It is doable. But it would never have happened if I hadn’t gone small and sort of locked in, like Seth Godin was talking about.
Drew Davis [27:07]
Yeah, at that. I think that’s 1,000% true. And kudos to you for having such a such a powerful insight. And I think it would be true for podcasting. If you wanted to start a fishing reel company, if you want to start a restaurant, you want to start a blog, whatever it is, and understanding the nuance and the impact and how to measure it and how to look at it and how to think about it is is the key to running anything successfully. And it’s very doable, but it takes time. And some people don’t like that it takes time. Because it’s not sexy, right. I mean, when you were breaking down the elements of podcasting, I’m sure you did some tasks that I mean to call the mind numbing would be generous, right? And, and but but in doing so, you you arm yourself with this not only powerful knowledge, but it’s defensible, right, because no one’s going to write a blog article about this. really dense, really nitty gritty stuff. And so all of a sudden, you are armed with this amazing insight in this amazing intelligence that other people can’t replicate. And as a result, you’re going to build a following. Because even if people can identify what it is about your show that makes it different or funny or amazing, they’re gonna keep coming back because something about it is resonating with them in a way that’s really, really powerful. And I mean, that’s, that’s how you get to be the number one podcast. That’s how you get to be Amazon are the number one product it’s by having this unbelievable understanding of what you are and who you are and what you’re doing and how it helps people. And then basically turning that up to 11 and just going for gold.
David Ralph [28:41]
Well, okay, so let’s summarise this startup blueprint that we’re creating. So first of all, you’ve got to have an idea, but it’s best to have an idea within your current skill set. So instead of trying to create a business, you’ve got no idea how it operates. You kind of have some kind of knowledge, then you look around at people with it. In the area who’s already doing it, and you pick out the best parts and what are operating effectively, perhaps you might reach out to those people and say, I’m starting to create a business similar to yours, what would be the best three bits of advice that a newbie could gain something like that? Then you start small, you don’t think about how to get 100,000 customers, you look at getting 10 customers, but then you canvass opinion. And then you take that opinion, and you start to pivot and fine tune and hopefully you can develop it to 20 to 40 to 50. But would that be where we were at the moment in our conversation in startup creation?
Drew Davis [29:38]
Yeah, absolutely. I think that would be an amazing place to start.
David Ralph [29:42]
So once we get to this point, or startup, how many startups have you done drew since you you’ve been and how many roared away from the gates and how many sort of limped away and how many died before I even got off
Drew Davis [29:55]
shore so I mean, the number that have died and left on the table is I mean in the 10s of not hundreds of the harebrained ideas I’ve had spent call it 50 to 100 hours on and realised I either didn’t have the passion for it or that it wasn’t the right time. I mean, I’ve built and dismantled websites I’ve signed up for podcasts I’ve I’ve I’ve, quote unquote started and I wouldn’t even give myself the credit for starting to call it 100 different businesses. As far as meaningful ones that I’ve been involved with, I would say it’s probably been four or five. And the biggest ones obviously were Eastern egg, which you talked about in the introduction very nicely. And then the the one I’m working on now which is called 86 gravity, which is sort of this consulting coaching hybrid, which is sort of playing into that that spirit animal idea I brought back before
David Ralph [30:48]
and so out of those five how many would you say really become stronger because of those hundred that died.
Drew Davis [30:58]
I mean, all of them. All of them are better for it. Because in every failure, it creates an emotional resonance that basically prevents you from forgetting what you did and why it happened. So when you fail, it creates such a strong imprint or it’s funny when you’re successful, particularly if you’re successful for an extended period of time, you can easily forget what it is that makes you successful. I think that’s why so many people, even after an initial burst, really go off the rails because they forget, again, all that nitty gritty, all that detail, all of that specificity that gave them that edge in the beginning, whereas every failure, you know, I remember so when I built a website, let’s call it two years ago, and you know, it was getting no traffic and then I figured out how to get people to the site and the traffic was just dying. And I learned a tonne about how to make the flow work better what language to use, how to encourage people to navigate on more parts of the site, and the next website that I build is going to incorporate all have that information because I remember how frustrating was to sit at my computer being like no one is seeing this. No one is looking at this the way that I want them to Why? And I remember that frustration so vividly. So I think there’s no question that that all all of those failures and experiences are ultimately incorporated into any endeavour that I plough ahead on. And what
David Ralph [32:19]
I love about my failures now, and I’ve had so many, but I actually look back on them. And I think, thank God, I think I was creating the wrong thing. And I don’t know whether they failed because internally somewhere, there was a switch saying, don’t put all your efforts into this or don’t do everything to get them on the life support system. But I’ve created memberships, I’ve created groups, I’ve created loads of different things. And I look back on it, and I think all I was doing was painting myself into a corner of my office where I would have been trapped all the time. Thank God, thank God, thank God, it didn’t take off. Do you feel the same way with yourself when you look back on them? Is there more often but not the ones you think? Well actually, I’m quite Glad because really, could I imagine myself doing that now?
Drew Davis [33:04]
Yeah, absolutely. 100%. And again, and that’s as much about the content of what I was doing as it was about the approach. And every time I’ve started something, because I’d like this is going to be a big idea. This is going to make a lot of money. This is going to make me successful and wealthy. I was too. I mean, I’ll be mean to myself, I was too friggin stupid, to step back and say like, if the goal is to be successful and wealthy, is this the best way to do it? Or should you actually step back and say, my goal is to be successful and wealthy? What is the best way to take advantage of everything I have, and everything I’ve learned in order to get there? And I mean, it’s like trying to row across a river with a car, right? It’s like you give yourself this unbelievably difficult task, and you give yourself the absolutely wrong tool. And I mean, thinking about trying to slog through that for years on end, it does it creates an unbelievable amount of ugliness. Got stuck trying to make that happen? He said funny old world bow, isn’t it because we all when we’re little, and somebody said to you drew, what do you want to be, and you might go, I want to be a fireman, I want to
David Ralph [34:13]
be an astronaut. And you’ll have these kind of very defined paths that you want to go for. But then once you go through your middle life, it becomes a bit confusing and you try jobs and you go into ones that pay very much money, and then you get sort of bit trapped. And then you think, oh, I don’t really like bass. And he’s so go back and forth. But we used to ask this question a lot. And we’ve kind of stopped it because it’s boring, but I’m gonna bring it back now, Drew, but the question was, when you was a little kid, how connected would you be today to that little kid with the passions and the interests that the drew was showing when he was like a five or six year old that was just doing things for fun?
Drew Davis [34:52]
Yeah, absolutely. So um, I actually really enjoyed this question because there’s no because for me, I absolutely had it. pretty clear vision of what it was. And then that went underground for a good 20 years. And then only in the last couple of years it started to reemerge. So this is a true story. In my in a third grade letter that I wrote to myself, I said that I wanted to be a waiter in a restaurant. And I wanted to do it because I so enjoyed the idea of reading the specials and surprising people with an idea that would get them really, really excited. And separately, I had a conversation with my mom, and she asked, you know, what, what, what do you want to do? How do you want to spend your time and again, you know, whatever, eight 910 and I said, What is the job where you just make people happy? And it sounds certainly a little childish as it was, but but ultimately, now, when I think about how I like to spend my time, and what I think I’m genuinely good at, it’s connecting with people and helping them to find joy. And the problem is, as I’m sure you can imagine, there are A lot of people who between the ages of eight and 28 word would be happy to tell me that that was that was dumb that was ill suited. That doesn’t make sense. That’s not a career. That’s not a thing. And I would now argue pretty adamantly that it is it is very much a thing. And in fact, if you look at the essence of what every business ultimately does, you you deliver some kind of value or service to people. And for me, what I’m learning how to do and figuring out how to do is how do I create a space where I just delivered joy to people, that is really all I want to do with my life. And that’s what makes me super, super happy. And I feel very, very confident that as long as I can figure that out, I’m going to end up just fine.
David Ralph [36:42]
I thought that was a brilliant answer. And to be honest, when you said that I actually felt choked up for a moment. It was it was such a deeply defining answer. I totally understood you know, you’re talking about spirit animal, but I always call it motivation rocket, and will be similar true because I’ve Always been able to sit in front of someone and go, I tell you what you should do, you should do this. And you could see the person grow in front of me where they suddenly got inspired. And I almost wanted to knock their point down and run home so they could start something, you know. And I’ve always called it the motivation rocket, but ultimately, it’s about making that person feel good about themselves, and feel happy, and hopefully Join Up Dots is that as well. I never wanted it to be a boring business show. I wanted it to be something but sometimes it’s funny. Sometimes it’s motivational sometimes, but it’s good for the Spirit. And so I think, Drew, we’re both spirit animals. Basically, you’ve told me, you’ve told me I am your lady in a bar. And now we’re going to make lovely babies together.
Drew Davis [37:42]
That sounds very romantic. Mmm, that sounds great.
David Ralph [37:45]
It doesn’t sound that great to me to be honest. Okay.
Drew Davis [37:49]
I appreciate that. You sold it hard, that’s all.
David Ralph [37:53]
Well, let’s listen to the words that created the whole show back in 2005. He stood up said these words lovely thing to them is Steve Jobs.
Steve Jobs [38:01]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [38:36]
Now good words, aren’t they every time I listen to them, sometimes I kind of have listened to them. Other times I’ve really focus in on them. I focused in and they hit home.
Drew Davis [38:45]
It’s so it’s so brilliant. And I think it’s so encapsulates the struggle that so many people have now and that they saw they want a path they want a ladder they want the the do this and then this will happen And it will be great. And and I think it’s for for honest and noble reasons that they want to feel secure in themselves in their lives in their, their marriages, their relationships, whatever it might be. But But the reality is this is just not how life works. And and having the, the the confidence or the willingness to accept that life will not reveal itself. And all of its kind of beautiful, confusing, ridiculous winding journey until you are able to look back and understand how the different building blocks ultimately brought you to where you are. And something I’ve talked about with a lot of people is that Harvard for me, it’s obviously it’s a storied institution, right? It’s a place where there are a lot of really, really brilliant minds. I didn’t particularly enjoy my time there because I didn’t feel like I fit and I spent four years wondering like, How the hell did I end up here? And why am I here? And now when I look back, even though what I do professionally will almost never be covered. In a course at Harvard, it will never be a major, I will never be a professor there. The values that I learned from there the experiences that I had there, the friendships that I that I made at that place are such a big part of my life, and therefore were obviously exactly what I needed. Now, even if at the time I couldn’t, for the life of me figure out what it was that I was doing there.
David Ralph [40:23]
Now, I’ve been through Harvard, I went on a road trip and stage just outside it for a while, and I’ll be honest, I was struck by the amount of people that looked like they wasn’t having a good time. It didn’t seem to be a kind of fancy free plays, which you kind of understand because people are building careers but it didn’t look like the kind of place that people were building the right careers. They were just going around with books.
Drew Davis [40:47]
Yeah, no, I think there’s no question it is. The word I would I would best use to describe it is that it’s incredibly Darwinian. It is very much the survival of the fittest. It is very much about you To figure out how you can create sort of a defensible position where within those walls and within all that fervour and competition, you can kind of create a livable space. Now that will make you stronger, it will make you tougher, it can make you smarter. does it create a lot of joy? I don’t think so. And again, let’s be very clear. This is data point one, this is my experience. I know people who went to Harvard and truly had the time of their life and learn so much and made such great friends and really, really did find joy there. And that’s amazing. And that’s awesome. And that means they were probably much better in touch with who they were as a person, when they were 1718 drew Davis was not there and he did not have a good time within those walls. So I think your your observation is, is very accurate because people get so obsessed with their performance in the competition that they totally lose track of, of having for years to really develop as a person as a friend as an intellectual. Within those walls, and a lot of people don’t do that in a robust way.
David Ralph [42:05]
So just before we send you back in time, because we are at the end of the show now, if you was, if you had a conference of people, maybe four or five in front of you, and they’re all interested in creating a startup, and you only had the opportunity to give them one amazing bit of advice, what would be your advice?
Drew Davis [42:27]
No matter no matter what happens, no matter what failures you you encounter, no matter what hardships you come at, none of that has any bearing on who you are as far as the quality of a person or your capability to accomplish the goal ahead of you. It is all noise in the universe, and nothing can actually stop you from getting there if you really, really believe in it.
David Ralph [42:51]
Great stuff. Great advice. As I’m sure the next bit of music will lead us to even more great advice. This is the part that we called a sermon on the mic when we Go back in time and send you on a journey to speak to your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the young Drew, what age would you choose? And what advice would you give? Well, we’re going to find out because I’m going to play the theme. When it fades you up. This is the Sermon on the mic.
Unknown Speaker [43:21]
We go with the best bit of the
Unknown Speaker [43:24]
show.
Drew Davis [43:39]
Okay, so this is Drew Davis and the president talking to me as an 18 year old right before I was going to give a speech to the graduating class of my high school. And the first thing I would say, just because I know that I would be a nervous wreck when I was 18 would be Don’t worry It’s all gonna work out really well, you’re going to marry an extraordinarily wonderful woman, you’re going to get a great education, you’re going to make a tonne of friends and you’re going to do some really cool stuff. So no matter what happens, Just have faith in the path. But the other thing I’m going to tell you because you drew are terrible at doing this is when you step up to the lectern, and you look out and you see the teachers and the friends and the classmates and all the people who who genuinely love and support you. Remember that it is their love, it is your relationship with them. It is who you are, that that defines what should make you happy and what you need to be focused on. And in the next decade, you’re going to face a lot of noise and a lot of tunnel and you’re going to beat yourself up. And when you do that, I want you to look back and I want you to think about those faces. I want you to think about the people who genuinely love you. and care for you, and who so appreciate you for exactly who you are not your grades, not your sports, not your degrees, not for for anything in the world. Other than that you are a wonderful, good human being and you will bring a lot of wonderful into this world. Brilliant stuff.
David Ralph [45:19]
Drew, what’s the number one best way that our audience who’ve been listening today can connect with you, sir?
Drew Davis [45:25]
Sure. So hopefully in the next couple of weeks, I’ll get a website up for my new company, which is at six, Number eight, number six gravity.com. So I’d love for you to come visit me there. You can pick up my book on Amazon again, what I learned before 30 you can get it on Kindle or paperback, which is fun. And if you’d like you can also just email me it’s drew G. Gordon is my middle name davis@gmail.com. And I would truly love to hear from any and all of you and I’m pretty promptly respond. So I’d love to get back to you quickly to
David Ralph [45:54]
read stuff. Drew, thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots and please come back Pick him when you have more dots to join up, because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our paths is the best way to build our futures. Drew Davis, thank you so much.
Drew Davis [46:09]
Thank you, David. I so enjoyed it.
David Ralph [46:13]
Drew day is he was good. I really liked him. I could, I could imagine myself being in a bar with him and him, whacking a spirit animal into my face and me going with a motivation rocket, and it would just be like this, this compound effect that would blow up the pub that we’re sitting in a kind of emotional terrorism if you can use that word. Thank you so much for listening to the show. Thank you so much for helping us make it what it is because it has been a struggle to get there. Little by little is going up. And honestly, I know podcasters always ask for this and it’s really cheesy, but it does make so much difference. We don’t ask very often, but if you could spend a moment or two to leave a rating and review of the show, and let us know you know, drop us through email and so that we can keep up on it. And we will give you a name check on the show we’ll make famous but um, yeah, if you could spend a moment or two doing that, really, really appreciate it, but even more, so we’d appreciate hearing from you again. Cheers. See,
Outro [47:12]
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you or wants to become. So he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to Join Up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on Join Up Dots.
