Fantasy Football Expert Joe K’Amo Joins Us On The Join Up Dots Podcast
Introducing Joe K’Amo
Fantasy Football expert Joe K’Amo is today’s guest on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots podcast interview.
He is the founder of a quite unusual business, certainly we have never focused on anything similar on Join Up Dots before.
He is the founder of The Fantasy Football Counsellor, where with millions of downloads, he is transforming the way fantasy football managers make educated decisions about drafting and managing their fantasy football teams through his entertaining fantasy football podcast; The Fantasy Football Counselor Podcast and his fantasy football show
Joe does the research and takes into account issues other fantasy football analysts don’t.
Refusing to sugarcoat things, Joe takes the legwork out for fantasy football fans, giving them the research they need and the confidence to go into the draft day knowing The Counselor is on their side.
How The Dots Joined Up For Joe
His top-ranked fantasy NFL podcast & YouTube show connects like-minded fantasy football enthusiasts every day and is always on the lookout for new tips to help you navigate the fantasy sports talk world and the secret formula to a fantasy football championship league.
Now if you think that this is just a hobby that has grown, then think again, as without a personal tragedy in his life this ball might never have been kicked in the first place.
He wanted to honour his father after his untimely and unexpected passing, and so left his unfulfilling career and starting his own business – one he is driven and passionate about.
So did he walk the path that most content providers walk in the beginning with no listeners, no downloads and only his faith that he could make it work?
And the big question is “Would he have ever started the whole fantasy football thing if life hadn’t tried to kick him into touch?
Well lets find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Joe K’Amo
During the show we discussed such weighty subjects with Joe such as:
How he has struggled with imposter syndrome in his life but now powers through with amazing confidence and insight
Joe talks openly about his time in the blue collar working environment and how in many ways it gave him the skills to become an entrepreneur.
We have a deep discussion as to how his entrepreneurial life started earlier than perhaps even he thought possible.
How fantasy football has so many avenues for income, and is an exciting business built purely on passion and love.
How To Connect With Fantasy Football Expert Joe
You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here – enjoy
Full Transcription Of Fantasy Football’s Joe Kamo Interview
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK. David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:25]
Yes, hello there. Good morning Jia and welcome to Join Up Dots. Thank you so much for being here. Well, today’s podcast interview is a quite an unusual business certainly one that we’ve never focused on anything similar on Join Up Dots before. He is the founder of the fantasy football counsellor where we have millions of downloads. He is transforming the way fantasy football managers make educated decisions about drafting and managing their fantasy football teams through his entertaining fantasy football podcast, the fantasy football counsellor podcast and his fantasy football show. Now he does all the research and takes into account issues other fantasy football analysts don’t, and refusing to sugarcoat things. He takes the legwork out for fantasy football fans, giving them the research they need and the confidence to go into the draft day, knowing that he’s on bear side, that if you think about this is just a hobby that has grown men think again as without a personal tragedy in his life. This ball might never have been kicked in the first place. He wanted to honour his father after his untimely and unexpected passing. And so left his unfulfilling career and started his own business, one that he’s driven and passionate about. So did he walk the path that most content providers walk in the beginning with no listeners, no downloads, and only his faith that he could make it work? And the big question is, would he ever have started the whole fantasy football thing? If life hadn’t tried to kick him into touch? Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show, to start joining up dots with the one and only Joe Kamo. Morning
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [2:08]
I’m doing great. What? What an amazing intro. Thanks for having me on the show. David.
David Ralph [2:12]
It’s lovely to have you here. Now I’ll be honest with you. I’m from the United Kingdom. So our football is a bit different. And so I don’t know much but can I can I give you my only bit of football American football knowledge?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [2:28]
Sure. Let’s hear it.
David Ralph [2:29]
I once saw Jake Plummer play his second best ever game as quarterback for the Arizona Cardinals in the Sun Devil Stadium. Now that is my fact. That’s all you know. That’s all I know. But But I have been told by many people that is an obscure football fact.
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [2:48]
Yeah, I mean, I Jake Plummer doesn’t jump out at me as a quarterback. I remember. I mean, he’s almost I mean, nothing wrong with being in your 40s. But he’s late 47. Now he’s just not relevant at all in the fantasy world at all now, so
David Ralph [3:01]
I’m letting myself go. I’m letting myself down. I don’t know what to do. But let’s start talking about your business. Because he certainly for me, an unusual business. And what I loved about it was, in many way people would think that this is a three business is something that you just provide free content and you don’t monetize because other people would post possibly be doing this. Did you have those same thoughts when you started it? Yeah,
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [3:29]
I mean, this was something that was an absolute passion fantasy, if you guys don’t know, fantasy sports is you draft a virtual team based on the player’s performance, how they achieve, you know, in reality translates on your virtual game, you accumulate points, you join leagues and all that and you’re with friends and there’s an online there’s daily fantasy with DraftKings. And this to me was just something that was I was just super passionate about I got obsessed with it. I’m like, I love drafting I got together with my friends. Never in my wildest imagination, what I imagined that now I’m, you know, making really good money doing what I love and actually helping people win their leagues. It’s, it’s really like if the thing is I hope your listeners can take something away from this. This is kind of like the dream because you’re taking something that’s completely fantasy, it’s something you’re passionate about and making it a reality and again in my wildest imaginations back then because I’ve levelled up in my mind and my business and that I would have never imagined this I thought you just had to go to school do what you got to do, you know get a get a degree or something like that and just work a nine to five Doctor lawyer type thing and you know even you know, a blue collar worker was you know, I was I was in that industry so it’s just it’s just wild and it’s unbelievable really
David Ralph [4:35]
now when did it stop being unbelievable and you thought God I can really make a go at this
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [4:42]
I mean, I initially started this off with like was that fantasy frame I started off with was just like a league prize there’s like a more of a true isn’t a trophy. I took people sports cards and put them in a frame. I started with that. They started podcasting 2016 2017 dabbled in it again, like started with zero podcast downloads. You know, I was excited. In one week, it was, you know, I hit Wow, 360 Total downloads. I’m like, Wow, it’s amazing. I’m in the millions. I think it really hit me about three years ago. So when I came up with my draft solution, where it started selling, I’m like, wow, this is working, you know, I offer, you know, this advice and video training, giving people all the optimal place to draft in each round. And it started, people started selling, I’m like, Okay, this is kind of cool. This is selling, it’s working. And the YouTube numbers started going and the swag line started growing. And it’s all just started topping on top of each other. Like, you know what, it just started growing. It’s amazing. So I’d say three years ago, hit me,
David Ralph [5:32]
you know that this is real? And how long has it been going? Joe?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [5:35]
I started in May 2016, with the podcast started off as audio only. And then I branched off to the YouTube version, you know, about three to four years ago as well. So 2016 to now. And you know, I’m pretty much on the top of my industry now. But I’m still not where I need to be. Which again, you just hit one mountain, you keep wanting to climb. So yeah, 2016 is when I started well, okay,
David Ralph [5:56]
and let’s go through the journey. So 2016 to the first monetary rewards that you got, yeah. So
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [6:04]
basically, when I came out, I basically was on Instagram, and I was the first vlogger on Instagram for fantasy analysis. Back then on Instagram, you only had 10 second clips that you could talk about. So as a clip blurb, hey, guys draft this guy. I like him. He’s good, right? It was like very little, you know, brief. And then basically what happened was it just started growing and growing and growing from there. And so I lost my train of thought, because I’m going back
David Ralph [6:27]
the question was from 2016. When did it start actually paying you back financially?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [6:33]
I would probably say 2019 where you got a good return a guy to like, what’s the, you know, eat crap, I guess. You know, I invested a lot in trademarking and building and logo creation and, and trying to juggle a nine to five while I’m doing this. So it was insane trying to do the transition to make this full time. But yeah, I mean, started to get a good return, maybe in 2019, a small, you know, started making some money there.
David Ralph [6:59]
So you’re talking a three year journey, where literally, the money’s going the wrong way?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [7:05]
Yes. Yeah. I mean, that’s the perseverance that you have to go through. Because I would say anyone else would quit. And then you throw your mic across the room, because you don’t know how to edit podcast, then you transition to video and lining up clips and learning all this stuff. And dealing with the haters, it there’s a lot of stuff, you got to persevere. But the one key takeaway is persevere, just stick with it, and keep showing up. And it continues to grow that, you know, as you continue to show up.
David Ralph [7:32]
Now, we’ve all entrepreneurial ventures, I’ve interviewed 1000s of people, and I’ve been through the same thing myself. There are those days, when you kind of go, I’m lost. I don’t know, the next steps. I don’t know what I should be doing, especially in the early days when it’s quiet. And you’re not getting the listeners and you’re not getting the interaction. Do you remember those days when you sat there thinking? I don’t know the next step. Who should I reach out to who should I mimic? Who should I look at and, and replicate what they’re doing?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [8:05]
I think that never goes away. I think I’m still there. Because I just recently added a Patreon group and it started starting to grow already something I slept on and added a discord group. I’m like, oh, that’s something I slept on. I think we’re constantly innovating. But there were times especially when I first started, whereas kind of like, oh my God, what do I do here? Okay, I do I go to video and I was even question Do I go to Video and he was like, slower and transition as I do. I add this to add as now. It’s like, I liked the idea. I go for it. I just stack and I keep stacking and stacking. But there were some moments where I’m just like, I like what happens that how far do I go? And then there’s also this limiting belief in my brand. Can I do it? Should I do it? And I’m totally past those points where I’m like, I can do it. I will do it. I will reach the top doing it.
David Ralph [8:45]
Now, did you have those same doubts when you was in sort of corporate gig or blue collar gig? Did you? Or did you just not even comprehend that you couldn’t do stuff? It was just your environment. I was
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [8:57]
just like, well, I got into like hydraulic sales, industrial sales and was so you know, boring to me. But again, I appreciate what I did. But with that, it was just I felt I was kind of like a robot. I just felt like I was just doing what I had to do find the next job and you know, keep the job and you know, please my bosses, there was no drive. I felt almost zombie and robotic like and I just felt unhappy, unfulfilled. It was a feeling of like, it was complete unfulfillment. So there wasn’t any thinking of like progressing or doing it was just like it was just let’s get a paycheck. Let’s, you know, maybe level up in this industry. But I had kind of peaked in that industry. It was just like, you know, it was so boring. I can’t explain it, you know,
David Ralph [9:36]
as well, I can totally understand it. And was it a job that you just fell into? Or was it something that at one time was a plan
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [9:43]
it was something I fell into so I was in high school and again at high school is very confusing, because you know, unless your parents mentor you is there’s very, there’s a big lack of mentorship in the mainstream school system where you kind of just have to meet the quarter. How are your grades and from your grades? Do you want to be a doctor or a lawyer? What do you want to do? So my grades or medium, medium, there are 75%. So I didn’t have the grades to get me to those, you know, high, you know, doctorial type education university is what we call in Canada. So I talked to a guidance counsellor said, Hey, what do you think of this fluid power course hydraulics, I’m I, I don’t know anything about it right? So I took this, it’s called a community college here. It’s a call a college as a two year diploma on hydraulics, where you go on to be a miller writer, a steel worker, working, working in a factory, and you do machining and stuff. And I’m just like, I don’t like the hands on. So I ended up doing sales of those products. And again, I’m just kind of in this bubble that I didn’t really want to be in. I was just kind of almost forced into it. And I just like, and I was always more of that outgoing spoken drama student like to talk like to do you know, that’s why I went sail. So yeah, it was just it was crazy how it all happened. But I’m just so glad that I’m here. Looking back, it’s just wow, you know, I’m just so grateful
David Ralph [10:54]
when you have that gratitude, because you know, it’s the right place at the right time. I think there’s also about part where you look back and you think, why didn’t I do it earlier? Could could you have done it earlier? Or was it the right time?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [11:08]
I think it again, I’ve heard some from some psychology professors and people on social media that I’ve followed that are entrepreneurs. One thing that they say is, I think after you’re hit like 25, your brain is wired to a certain point. So I may have never got out of this grind. But there is, as you mentioned, at the beginning of the show, losing my dad in 2015 was a big motivator and pain and because he lived an average life. I mean, he immigrated here from the Middle East to Canada, I was born in Canada, and he was a blue collar steel worker, he was unfulfilled you know, he had minor heart attacks, the years you’re stressed at work and night shifts. He didn’t like what he did, he was unfulfilled. And I realised he had to survive to come here. And I get it. And I know the struggle, and I have an opportunity to thrive here. So when I lost him, I’m like, Hey, man, like I got nothing to lose here. Let’s go. Let’s give it our all. We’ve got nothing to lose his last request for me because he didn’t have a lot of money. He’s like, Hey, Joe, can I have $10 And I opened up my wallet, gave him his $10. He went bought gas took my sister somewhere to her job that day. And then he passed away the day after, and he literally passed away with literally $0 I still have his wallet today, today with $0 in it. So the point I’m trying to make here is I think I needed that pain to move me without that. You know, I don’t think I’d be here. Unfortunately.
David Ralph [12:21]
I’m really sorry about your dad’s loss, obviously. But I I’m intrigued. Why? Why? Because we have pain throughout our life. We do jobs that we get to Friday, and we say to everyone Oh, I’m not doing that. Again. I’m gonna quit on Monday. And then you go in and you sort of deal with it. So was it a coiled spring building up and the unfortunate demise of your dad was just a tipping point?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [12:47]
I think that’s a good point. Right? I think I used to listen to like Howard Stern on Sirius XM at the time. And I I’m like, I know I want more because his voice is reaching people. So I’d be there in the shipping department, shipping hydraulic products. And again, if you guys do that for a living Nope. You know, it’s no problem with that. That’s what you want to do. For me it was unfulfilling, right? So I’m sitting there listening to stern and getting his voice out there. And I never imagined this. But yeah, I would say it was a years of build up. And this was the definite hard push I needed to propel me, definitely.
David Ralph [13:19]
Now when you’re propelled, it’s alright, to have that urge to do something. But there’s an awful lot of upskilling he it’s not easy to do anything until after the event. It looks like it’s easy. So what was your first step?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [13:36]
My first step was it’s kind of ironic, I won’t say who they are. But I have a competitor in the industry that started before me in the fantasy football industry as creating this frame. And it’s like, at the time is like I was just kind of dabbling with this frame idea to create this league prize for leagues. And then one guy that was friend of mine was like, Hey, man, this other podcasts in the industry already says to me, they want to promote your podcast. I know I’ve heard of them. I wrote to their show, they want to promote your pot, your frame on their podcast. My first question was like, not like who the competitor is or what’s going on? I’m like, what is the podcast? Right, like so. So then I realised what a podcast was. I’m like, okay, these guys are doing and hold on a second. Let me try this. And I never in my wildest dream, right? Imagine I’d catch up to them, or, I mean, still, they have more downloads than me, but I’ve definitely bridged that gap. So I think you’re just starting. It’s just like, hey, this is it. Let’s let’s do it. And my friend had me on his podcast, he had an entrepreneur podcast. And I’m like, this is a podcast is a podcast, Mike, this is okay. This is interesting. I could do this. And I started building it, but just just amazing how it started. Just just just start.
David Ralph [14:38]
I remember the very first day I decided to do Join Up Dots, and I sent out an email to a guy. And I was trying to find guests. I didn’t have a podcast hadn’t bought a microphone or anything. And he came back within about two minutes. So it was a Saturday lunchtime and he said, Yeah, great. I’ll be on it. And I remember thinking, Oh, bloody hell. I’m doing it now. and you’ve got to have something that starts the ball rolling, you’ve got to create that kind of tension in your life. Otherwise, it will just roll on to the next day or the next day, right? So when you’re with yourself, I’m intrigued again, because I don’t know anything about, we have fantasy soccer, or fantasy football, as we call it over here. But I unless I’m in a different environment, I haven’t seen anybody doing it to a point where it becomes a business, because to us, it’s something that the newspapers run, and then there’s probably a 50 grand reward at the end for the winner. But I haven’t seen anybody doing what you’re doing. So how do you actually make money from it? When it’s free? A lot of the informations out there, and a lot of the information is just your opinion,
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [15:53]
right? A lot of it is subjective. But there’s actually a lot of research that goes into drafting the optimal player. So you have to know who the rookies are coming every year, you have to know who the players are, you have to know how they’ll project out. So there’s a lot of research and analysis where I live and breathe this stuff. Whereas a casual fan, even though they watch football, and may not know who that other player is, who’s third on the depth chart on their team. So how I make money theoretically, like in factual is I offer a draft solution where I get to offer the video training, and then my numbers are so big, so there’s a sponsorship aspect of it. Obviously, YouTube revenue is a big factor as well. And just creating that community from swag. So there’s multiple ways to make money, but it’s primarily through courses on my analysis. And of course, the sponsors that are Come on, but you
David Ralph [16:39]
will clients must be aiming for something. So are there lots of companies offering big prizes that people are sort of aiming to win?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [16:49]
Well, you create your own league. So typically, you start a fantasy football league gets to you and your 12 Guys or girls in your league? Say, Hey, John, Hey, Mike, hey, Amanda, we’re going to start a league. Our league prizes here is going to be bragging rights, you get a trophy, and it’s everybody buys in at $100. You know, winner take all $2,000 So investing in a $30 draft solution, which I offer to get advice somebody who lives and breathes this is a pretty good relatively good on invest, because you’re getting advice from someone who knows what they’re talking about. And then so yeah, 30 bucks to win 1000 And
David Ralph [17:18]
that’s 30 banks one off for each month. Well, I
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [17:21]
do the Patreon group is a recurring payment and there’s different pay tiers depending on how much value you get exclusive podcasts and live interaction stuff like that. But it’s $30 for the season, for the draft solutions $32 Actually Canadian or us for the for the solution for the year. So it’s it’s a really good price
David Ralph [17:39]
away from anything, as you say is bragging rights. Its status. Its community.
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [17:45]
Yes, absolutely. And there is a daily fantasy aspect as well, like DraftKings and FanDuel, where there is Milt, you can win a lot of money in those. And that’s more of a bedding aspect of it, where you It’s week to week you draft those players for that week, instead of just for the the season long.
David Ralph [18:00]
Well, let’s hear from Jim Carrey. And we’ll be back with Joe,
Jim Carrey [18:03]
my father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you
David Ralph [18:29]
love. Now, that’s almost verbatim your story in a certain regard, that you’ve now gone for something that you love. Now, the weld is looking for what they love. And a lot of people go into stuff, thinking they’re gonna love it. And then once you have actually into it, and it becomes a business, they lose the mojo to it. So let’s take it away from the sexy stuff that you do. How much of it would you say is grind and repetition and a business? And how much of it is the stuff that you really love? Oh, I
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [19:06]
mean, a big majority of stuff behind the scenes is the grind. I mean, the other we’re in primetime right now, August is primetime. So I’m pushing the draft kit pushing content daily pushing content for the sponsors. Let’s put it this way. If I didn’t love what I did, there’s no way in hell I do it. So I mean, it’s just from editing podcast to do that. Now I have the funds to delegate the stuff and get a hire an intern all that, but I’m just at this point, I’ve reached the point where I’m hitting critical mass and I may have to do that. But I I’m very hands on, because I love my brand so much. And I want to make sure that the right information gets out. I really don’t hand a lot of this stuff off. So for me, I’d rather put in the extra time grind it on my own, make sure my customers and my fans get proper, you know, information. They give it to someone else and cookie cutter which is what everyone else in the industry is doing or most people are doing anyway. So there’s a lot of grind. It’s hard it’s not easy. See, and you have to persevere. And there’s times where I got to do a podcast the evening and submit it to my sponsor so that they can review it to see if that that that intro meets their specifications. I got to do that at nine o’clock at night. And after I’ve taken the kids out to the park, and I’m running around after them exhausted, right. So again, I love what I do. So it doesn’t really feel tiring. But if I were to do this, if I was trying to sell hydraulic industrial products, I would probably be jumping off a bridge right now. You know, it’s tough. Yeah.
David Ralph [20:27]
Now, I know the grind. I’ve been doing my podcast for nearly 10 years. And there are times that I think to myself, you know, what do I talk about? You know, have I replicated it? Now, one of the things I realised early doors, was by doing generic evergreen content, which I do, somebody can go back 15 years and listen to a podcast and get the same amount of value as they do now, with yourself. How does that work? How do the archives work? But do people listen to old stuff? Or is it all about new new new?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [21:02]
Great question. So a lot of our stuff is predicated for the season. So it’s like who you drafting this season? So football season, we’re talking NFL football starts typically, preseason starts in August, and it runs. September is the main season and it runs till February. So a lot of my stuff is you know, up to date, so it’s current, they look at the absorbent at that moment. The Evergreen content typically comes in how to videos how to win your fantasy leagues, five tips to win your league. So there is a tonne of evergreen content. So I if you Google fantasy football draft strategy, I’m on the first page for that. So that’s more evergreen because it’s a specific strategy how to so the how tos is the green that green aspect, but the other stuff is week to week, especially when we do something called waiver wires. We’re after that week, a certain player breaks out or has a good week you got to talk about hit picking them up off the waiver wire that is only good for NFL week one waiver wire let’s pick up this player that after that week that that that video becomes irrelevant. And after that.
David Ralph [22:00]
Now my knowledge of draft day is pretty much based around a Kevin Costner film, which I watched the other day in preparation for this interview. Have you seen that film yourself Draft Day with Kevin Costner?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [22:15]
You know, it’s funny, I actually have not believe it. There’s a lot of movies, I’ve watched adrenaline pumping sports movies, Rocky movies, stuff like that. But this one I have not watched. I think that’s more pertinent to real football. I believe that
David Ralph [22:29]
no, not fantasy, no, not fantasy. Now. The connection that I had with this draft day film was that there was a lot of, as we say, skullduggery, there was a lot of buying his players. So they Saba team couldn’t get him. And even though you don’t want that player, and then a last minute, when the clock is going, you tried to trade this player to get the player that you want. Does that work as well, in your fantasy football, or because it’s community is a friendly kind of environment.
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [23:02]
It depends on which league you’re at and how friendly your friends are, it can be really ruthless. This is what makes fantasy football so amazing. I wish he played to experience this, really, is the fact that you and I don’t know what your bank account is. But you and I and the average person, which doesn’t have billions of dollars to buy a real NFL team just yet. So this is your virtual team. This is your baby, you know, and so it can be pretty ruthless, especially when you’re doing your draft and you’re selecting your players and you’re in round one selecting a player round two, and then the player you like you want it to draft gets, you know, sniped and picked up that draft that they that year, right. And then you’re doing trades, you know, and someone tries to take advantage of you on a trade. And you you know, if some people do that you don’t say they offer a player that really sucks to hey, I want that player and then the person that hasn’t done their research might give him up and then they call a veto trade, the Commission or the league will say, Hey, that’s not a fair trade. We’re not going to push that through. So it can be pretty cutthroat. You know, it really can.
David Ralph [24:01]
And so he says, administration you do with the trades, or are you just purely advice?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [24:07]
So again, I don’t again, every league is different. So if you’re like, I can’t control everyone has their own fantasy league. So I just I’m just a guy that gives advice, right? So, I mean, people ask me, Joel, do you think this trade is a good idea? And then I will advise them, you know,
David Ralph [24:21]
now on the website, there’s another guy standing behind you, happy guy. Who’s he?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [24:28]
So this is a guy Ironically, when I got into the hydraulic industry, he was my boss. He was the manager of a machine shop I was working as name is Tim. So basically, he comes on part time he does a couple of shows we I’d like to get him on a little bit more. He’s kind of the behind the scenes guy more or less. And he’s kind of the mastermind kind of he’s like a really good friend of mine that gives me a lot of advice steers me in the right direction. I’m kind of like the fire. He’s kind of like the ice. You know, it keeps me grounded in my entrepreneurial adventure. And yeah, it’s Tim the bald guy. And now I’m kind of more his boss’s boss,
David Ralph [25:01]
crazy. Now, you use the word entrepreneurial. Would you consider yourself to be an entrepreneur? Because in my head, an entrepreneur is somebody with more than one business going and the ability to be able to see opportunities, but others probably con? Do you call yourself an entrepreneur? Or do you call yourself a business owner?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [25:23]
I’m definitely an entrepreneur, through and through. I mean, I don’t know, if you need multiple businesses to be considered entrepreneur, I think it’s just if you’re open, I guess that’s a good way to define it. But I just think I’m always open to to new ideas, innovations, and I’m always trying to better myself and I took something and I made it, you know, that was fantasy made it a reality. I’m full fledged entrepreneur. So
David Ralph [25:45]
what interests me then is if you’re fully fledged entrepreneur, why that didn’t kick in earlier. Because as kids were quite entrepreneurial, we know that we can knock on a door when it’s snowing and clear snow. And we know how to sort of make money because a lot of it’s sort of task, it’s effort based tasks, but then we kind of lose it somehow. And we put our futures in the hands of other people who are getting rich based on our effort. So why do you think that you’re a fully fledged entrepreneur, but it’s taken a while for it to find his feet?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [26:22]
This is an interesting question. I love your deep diving, by the way. And I’ve had a bunch of interviews never to this level. I love I love the questions, by the way. So I think I’ve always had it in me. I remember when I was young again, my dad didn’t have a lot of money. And I was ended I was selling chocolate bars at the age of 13. There was a lady that used to go around, you know, drive kids and pick them up back then it was okay, I guess you’d pick up kids and you’d go sell chocolate bars door to door and I learned sales back then. I think the big key factor here was obviously the pain that pushed me. But I think it was just lack of mentorship. I just don’t think I had that role model to show me I just didn’t, I didn’t know where to get it. I just grew up watching sports with my dad. He was a blue collar worker. I didn’t have that guidance. And then as soon as the internet blew up, I started following entrepreneurs that were mentors example. I don’t know if you know him, but a guy named Ty Lopez online, didn’t see what he was doing. I’m like, Okay, this is interesting. Then I branched off into the social media marketing biz. So I had a nine to five. I’m doing social media marketing for clients, including restaurants and car dealerships, and I’m building fantasy football counsellor. So I pivoted from the nine to five into the social media marketing, believe it or not, a lot of people don’t know this. So I was managing car dealerships and restaurants, as I’m doing the podcast. So it was like this. I was a monkey, right. I have one branch. I’m reaching over to grab the other one before I let go. And it’s like now in full for a full flow here. So I think it was just the lack of mentorship to answer that question there.
David Ralph [27:48]
So you would say that one of the key things for people listening is start to surround yourself with people that are doing what you want to do. Absolutely. Now, I throw that back to you. Because I speak to lots of people who will do that. And because they’re now surrounded, they feel like the competition has saturated the market, which I always say to them, that’s a crock. If it’s doing well, there’s enough crumbs out there to make a lovely livelihood, you know, what would you say?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [28:20]
Yeah, especially with my industry. When I started, I remember creating my name fantasy football counsellor, like that’s a silly name. Like, how is that even in a flat? Because there was no other one like, Counsellor? What am I counselling? It was at the time really silly. Now you’ve got everything. You’ve got the fantasy football therapists, you’ve got the jockey, you’ve got the boxer, you’ve got the rapper, you’ve got you’ve got all of these different everyone’s trying to get in. But I will tell you, it does feel a little crowded. But you’ve got your loyal audience. And it goes to having that that old saying, I don’t know if it’s an old saying, but I’ve heard it. You’ve got 1000 loyal customers paying $100. Right? Those are your core audience. If they believe in you, you’re good. And with fantasy sports, especially NFL football, we’ve got 60 million people playing fantasy football across North America. That’s us, and even Mexico and Canada. And we’ve got I’ve got people overseas, believe it. I’ve got people from the UK, people from Australia, DM me saying shout out from Germany, it’s been phenomenal. So there’s a big piece of the pie. If I can get you know, 2000 people that buy from me regularly, I can make a living, you know, and again, it’s way bigger than that. So it’s just amazing. I’m just so blessed.
David Ralph [29:29]
Well, he is one of those things that when you sit there and start crunching the numbers, you think to yourself, how can everybody do this, you know, create something that people want? Fine for people who want it, start letting them know about it, and then grow from there. But I see a lot of people try to go too big and alienate a lot of listeners or their their followers. Were actually as you say $100 1000 1000 people you’re talking 100 grand a year. Now, that’s a lovely salary.
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [30:06]
Pretty easy. I mean, not easy. But I mean, like, it sounds easy, right? Like, all you got to do is create a product $100 product and have 1000 people buy it and you’re set. Like it sounds easy. But to get to that point to build that audience and build that loyalty and brand, build that brand awareness of that loyalty to get that it is no easy feat. I think the difference is, a lot of people quit when they don’t get the result. Everybody wants the quick fix. And that’s what I’ve learned. Again, going back to the key element here, it’s perseverance. And I never felt like I wanted to quit. But there were times where I want to smash my mic against the wall. Maybe I didn’t get the views I want maybe I didn’t get the sale, I won. Maybe I didn’t get the sponsor I wanted maybe the the podcast was edited and recorded. And I forgot to hit the record button after an hour, and I gotta do the damn thing. Again,
David Ralph [30:51]
we’ve all been there. We’ve all done that kind of thing. So
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [30:55]
it’s just been wild, or like, the software is not working. Like I had Premiere Pro the other day. It was just like, it was just completely glitching out. So I had to get on with Adobe. I’m like, why isn’t the audio recording properly? Oh, sorry. It’s the cache needs to be cleared. I’m like, why cleared it wasn’t cleared the right way. I’m like, Oh, my God, okay, just clear my cache and get this thing working. Because I gotta get this podcast out. So I mean, it’s just I don’t think a lot of people will put up with that for $0 return for the first three years. It’s just, that’s the difference.
David Ralph [31:26]
Yeah. It’s like when we’re recording this. You sound great to me, but my audio is terrible in my ears. Now, five years ago, I would probably would have said, Oh, no, I can’t record like this. But you you gain confidence in your skills to be able to find your way around an issue. And when you are an entrepreneur, I always say it’s not entrepreneurship. It’s just making it up as you go along. Ship.
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [31:54]
Yeah, it’s it’s adapting, right. It’s really just being flexible and adapting. And a lot of people are very self conscious. So I watched his videos on Tiktok the other day, where a gentleman I think he’s from India, or whatever, super nice guy, he’s like playing this soft belly, the music in the background. And he basically explained what happens after you die. And it was like, wow, and it’s like he does, yeah, after you die, you know, people will cry after a week, you know, they’ll they’ll talk about you, after a year, they’ll do a, you know, a whole ceremony on you. But they’re after 30 days, your wife will laugh at a comedy show. I’m like, holy wow. Okay, so like, you’ll be forgotten. So it’s a legacy you leave. And so many people are so worried about pleasing other people, that they’re actually forgetting that they want to live their life and enjoy their dream and do what they want. Because they’re worried about someone else’s opinion, where at the end, it doesn’t really matter. So do what you want to do. Now, really,
David Ralph [32:50]
as I look at your product and your platform, one of the things that I’m thinking of is why you don’t franchise it out, because there’s so many fans out there that would love to be able to get the website up and running really quickly. All the products all franchised out. And at the end of the day, we always know that a lot of them won’t take it anywhere they are by it. You know, so many people buy courses and don’t do anything. But it’s a it’s a great franchise module would have all
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [33:21]
definitely right now I’m just growing it as big as I can on my own building, the tallest building. And then yeah, there’s tonnes of other opportunities that are breaking out for me when you say that one thing I’ve never told anybody, I’m gonna share with you a live podcast, I’m going to share this with my listeners as well, and tell them that I’ve got something in the works. I’m working on something. I’ve been trying to work for four years. And it’s almost there. I’m working. I won’t say what type of show it is. But it is sports related. I’m working on a sports reality TV show, I’ve got some Hollywood connections. If that happens, it’s just going to catapult the brand. And then yeah, at that point, sky’s the limit. But nobody really knows that. And I’m sharing it here for the first time.
David Ralph [33:56]
Now let’s take you back to that blue collar guy. That blue collar guy would have laughed at that. How you build the connections, how do you make these things happen? And that’s the mantra of Join Up Dots. The fact that you can’t see how you made these things happen. All these actions are so small, that actually you look back and you kind of go Ah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. So do you look at your life as a series of big dots, or just small ones about almost forgotten?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [34:32]
Yeah, I mean, small gradual progressions. That’s literally it. I mean, it’s one podcast after another one step to another. I heard a saying the other day. I don’t know I’m not gonna paraphrase it the proper way. I’m gonna butcher this saying, but it’s something along the line of there’s a guy and a girl in the forest or it’s a guy, it’s a guy in a forest, whatever, let’s just say. And he’s got to get to one side of the forest and the other and he’s barefoot and all that and he can see that this forest is very long, right? And he wants to get there. So just sitting there complaining, you just gotta take that first step, right? Just take that first step, because you got to get to the other side, right. But if you don’t take that first step, you’re stuck in that forest. Thank God, I butchered this quote. But that’s the whole thing here, you just got to go. And it’s those little steps over time to get you out of this forest that you’re stuck in. Right? It’s it’s, that’s not simple. But that’s it.
David Ralph [35:18]
Well, let’s hear from Steve Jobs, who says the same thing in a different way.
Steve Jobs [35:23]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards, 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [35:57]
Now I’m going to ask you a hypothetical question, which perhaps you won’t be able to answer, or perhaps you might, but do you think your dad would have seen the dots? But you’re now walking?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [36:09]
Ah, that’s interesting. That’s a very interesting question. I, I think he knew I was very, what’s the word outgoing, he knew I was capable of doing big things. Obviously, he watched me in sports. He always knew I was a go getter. And, you know, I think that he saw me doing big things. So yeah, you know, it would be close. But I think he knew I was a go getter. So I would say, Yeah, you know, I definitely think you think this is very possible,
David Ralph [36:37]
and would have encouraged you, or because a lot of our families hold us back. They don’t want us to risk our money. Or you know, my mom and dad are very much just work for the man do 40 years and then retire. Would your dad have fueled the fire?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [36:55]
You know, when I was in sports, like hustle, Joe, go for it, go for it. Yeah, I think he would, he always pushed me now if it’s a bad thing, but I would come back and and say, Hey, I got the sale today. And we you know, we got an order for 100,000. He say that’s it. Or if I was in a I used to do mixed martial arts, and he’s like, you can’t take that, that you can beat that guy, you can do it. So he’s always always encouraging, but part of them based on how he lived, he always tried to play it safe as well. So he’d always be like, hey, you know, what’s your guarantees, they always have the accent, hey, give me give me guarantees things here, give me guarantees, right. So we’d always want the guarantee job, but he always encouraged me. So I think he’d be on the fence. But if he knew what I was doing, you’d be 100% encouragement,
David Ralph [37:33]
because I’m very aware that my life is built around proving people wrong, more than encouragement. I don’t look at myself and really say much encouragement from the people that effectively love me. But there’s a big drive to prove those people wrong.
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [37:50]
I can’t explain him and maybe a few people in the industry that kinda, you know, pushed me out. There’s a chip on my shoulder, for sure. Because I’m fighting everything that the mainstream does. So I’m doing what Joe Rogan is doing to you know, regular podcasting, but I’m doing it in the sports industry, where I don’t have any backing and, and I’ve had athletes come out to me, and I’m pretty honest, I say that player success player sucks, whatever. I’ve had players come out and say stuff to me and say, Well, Joe, how could you talk about me like that, blah, blah, and they want to fight me or box me. And this should be mainstream news. But everybody ignores it. Like they, they think I don’t exist. And that’s a chip on my shoulder. So I’m just creating the fire bigger. And at the end of the day, it is for me, it’s about what legacies Well, family, it’s about, you know, my grandkids, grandkids, seeing that, oh, Joe is started that I see where my roots came from, you know, 100 years ago, there’s documentation. This guy was an alpha lion here. So part of me is like, yeah, the competitors. But again, I, I kind of don’t care what people think, to some degree, but there is a bit of a chip on my shoulder as well.
David Ralph [38:49]
That’s the key message. I think that when you’re following the dots, the first ones are silent. But the later ones are like raus, where you really believe in yourself, you’ve learnt the skills, you’ve got the confidence. And then you say, right, now I’m ready. You watch me?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [39:11]
It is like a video game, isn’t it? I mean, it’s like I used to grew up with my dad playing Super Mario Brothers and you, you kind of level up each round of your character. Even if these role playing games, your character gets stronger as you go. It’s just phenomenal. Like where my mind is right now is just a light years ahead of where I was, you know, seven, seven years ago. It’s just, it’s just a different person.
David Ralph [39:33]
Well, let’s start connecting you to other person because this is a part of the show that we call the Sermon on the mic. When we send you back in time to have a one on one with that younger person. And if you could go into a room and speak to the Young Joe, what advice would you like to give him and what age Joe would you speak to? Well, we’re going to find out because I’m going to play the music and when it fades is your time to talk. This is the Sermon on the mind.
Unknown Speaker [40:06]
Here we go with the best bit of the show the Sermon on the mind, the sermon on
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [40:25]
a Joe Listen, man, I mean, there’s a whole opportunity, a whole world out there, you know, you’ve got your dad here. You know, always, always treat your dad with utmost respect, I know you do. But give them that extra hug, you know, give them that extra smile, spend that extra time with them, because life is short. And pursue what you love. Create a product around it. Very simple joke, do what you love, create a product around it, and be the best at doing it. Persevere. Stick with it, and just continuously do everything better than everybody else in that industry. Just go up and above and create the most value for your clients and customers. You know, marry that woman that’s going to treat you with respect, you know, and treat that woman with respect and integrity. And of course, always, always, always treat others like you want to be treated. And remember that perseverance stick with
David Ralph [41:18]
it. Yeah, key to that perseverance wins every day. Or hopefully fingers crossed. It does. So Joe, what’s the number one best way that our audience can connect with you?
Fantasy Football Expert Joe Kamo [41:28]
Well, I’m you know, my bread and butter is Instagram at fantasy football counsellor, spelled co u n s e lor, just Google it. I’m on YouTube. I’m everywhere. The website there’s an email there, Joe at FF counsellor.com. Yeah, just Google fantasy football Council. That’s what I kind of what I’m known as kind of like Madonna is known as Madonna. I’m, I’m just gonna, people don’t even call me Joe or Joseph. They just call me the counsellor. And it’s just like, something that I’m just used to now. Great,
David Ralph [41:54]
great stuff. Yeah. If you’d known by one name, like Elvis, you’re doing something. Right. Absolutely. So Joe, thank you so much for spending time with us today, joining up those dots. And please come back again, when you got more dots to join up, because I believe that by joining up those dots, and connecting our past is actually the best way to build our futures. Josie thank you so much. So fantasy football, who would have thought I had this idea to have him on the show because I looked at it before I can’t fathom how you’re, you’re converting free advice, specs, your own opinion in to something. But if he’s done it, then you can do it as well. So if you are interested in soccer, or American football, or cricket or whatever, there’s fantasy football games all of all over so you know, do the same, do the same, create your own market, create your own leagues and see where it takes you is all about seeing what other people are doing. And following those those clues. We stand on the shoulders of giants, every one of us. So thank you so much for listening to this episode of Join Up Dots. And hopefully you enjoyed it. And I’ll see you again soon. Cheers. See ya. Bye bye.
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