Welcome to the Join Up Dots business coaching podcast interview with Greg Hickman
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Introducing Greg Hickman
Todays guest ready to be interviewed on the Join Up Dots business coaching podcast, is Mr Greg Hickman.
He is a man who upon reading his About page I thought “Man we have something in common”
He quit his 9-5 job in September 2013, and has since embarked on a daily mission to create an income producing production line, whilst inspiring motivating and empowering one million people.
Greg wants to put a plan in place to help one million people leave their corporate job by building a business they love so they can live life on their own terms.
Well that is something that I am all ears for, and have my pen and paper at the ready.
How The Dots Joined Up For Greg
He has worked with major companies and smaller businesses, including top professional sports teams, Fortune 500 companies, industry leading entrepreneurs and even local businesses as he helps everyone develop their mobile marketing strategy.
But how has he done it?
How has Greg Hickman, since September 2013, found the courage to quit his job, sell his house, get married, start his own blog, podcast and coaching business whilst still retaining control of his own destiny.
Well let’s bring onto the show to start joining up dots, as we discuss the words of Steve Jobs with the one and only Mr Greg Hickman
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Greg Hickman such as:
How Greg started his first company with a group of colleagues and wont make the same mistakes again!
Why he hasn’t been to a barbers for years!
How there is never a good time to quit your job!
Why you shouldn’t let the success of others define your own success!
How he should be made into a bendy yoda which speaks words of wisdom on long car journeys!
How To Connect With Greg Hickman
Return To The Top Of Greg Hickman
If you want our whole collection of shows then jump over to the podcast archives here
Audio Transcription Of Greg Hickman Interview
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK, David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:25]
Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of a Join Up Dots actually Episode 43. It’s the 10th of June 2014. And everything is good in the world. I am I’m particularly excited to have this conversation today. And I’ll tell you why. Because when I started getting the show together, there’s been one or two names that keep on appearing, especially when you in the online world. There’s the name of Pat Flynn, which you probably know, there’s been the name of john Lee Dumas. And Mr. Dumas, I’m coming to you. I’m coming after you. And there’s this man here, Mr. Well, I’ll let you know at the end, because he is a man who upon reading his about page I fall blindly, we really had something in common because he quit his nine to five job in September 2013, exactly the same month as I have, and has since embarked on a daily mission to create an income producing production line, whilst inspiring, motivating and empowering 1 million people big dreams. Now our guest wants to put a plan in place to help 1 million people leave their corporate job by building a business they love so they can live life on their own terms. And that is something that I am all ears for. And I have my pen and paper at the ready. He’s worked with major companies and smaller businesses, including top professional sports teams, fortune 500 companies, industry leading entrepreneurs, and even local businesses as he helps everyone develop their mobile marketing strategy. But how has he done it? How has he since September 2013 found the courage quit your job, studies house, get married, that takes a little courage start his own blog, podcast coaching business while still retaining control of his own destiny. Well, let’s find out as we start Join Up Dots with the one and only mobile master
Greg Hickman [2:15]
Mr. Greg Hickman, how are you today? Sir? I am Fantastic. Thank you for having me.
David Ralph [2:20]
No, it’s absolute pleasure to have you on the show. And you are you are a name as I say it’s it’s really weird in online world. And I don’t know if you find this. But if you are very much on the PC side of things, certain names keep on appearing. And you almost kind of think that they are world famous, for example, the amount of times people have spoken to me about the man Pat Flynn, and then I will talk to somebody in the street and I have never heard of him. Never heard of him at all. And you’re somebody that if you sort of do anything, probably every fifth page or something your smiling face comes up. And he is always smiling. You’ve done a lot since sep tember two thousand 13 to get so out there revenue?
Greg Hickman [3:03]
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and before that, honestly, a lot of what I was doing was on the side before I was able to to make that transition. So it started Well, before September.
David Ralph [3:17]
It normally does, doesn’t it? So tell us the the sort of starting date the rough starting date, because the overnight successes, there’s normally been sort of four or five years of very late nights and early mornings and weekends and stuff. So when did this sort of vibe of actually branching out on your own style?
Greg Hickman [3:37]
Well, in 2008, there sorry, 2000. Yeah, 2008, I started a consulting company with two other people, which was a side thing. And it turned into a text message marketing software company, which didn’t didn’t go anywhere. Two and a half years of really struggling trying to get that thing off the ground, until we got to the point where we decided to shut it down. I mean, we had maybe like 10 clients. And that didn’t really go well. And I told myself, the next time I do anything, I’m just going to be, you know, me, myself and I starting it, and you know, not being equal partners with two other people. And that’s sort of when mobile mixed was born, my first blog and podcast, which was really started out of selfish reasons, to start interviewing people that I thought were doing cool things in the mobile marketing world, so that I could potentially find a mentor and even potentially get a consulting job out of that. So I mean, the the first effort was in 2008, for about two and a half years, almost three years, before I even started mobile mix and mobile mix is where things really started to move forward for me. And that was, that was June of 2012, is when that blogs blog started and the podcast started shortly thereafter that and, you know, it started off as a video based interview, show and show and then from there, it turned into just an audio only podcast, and then consulting and then coaching, products training, speaking, a lot of speaking so through my podcast, I was able to get a lot of speaking arrangements. And yeah, it just kept growing from there. But I mean, like you said, it all started for me with with a company before mobile mixed that no, most people don’t even know about. So it got start a long time ago.
David Ralph [5:38]
So have you ever been an employee?
Greg Hickman [5:41]
Oh, yeah. Most of my life.
David Ralph [5:45]
And how old are you now? Greg?
Greg Hickman [5:47]
31. I’ll be 32 in July.
David Ralph [5:50]
Because you got one of those places. And I mean, these are great disrespect, but you can’t age. I was looking at you. And I was thinking how old actually, is he? It’s very hard to put an agent here. Yeah, Pauline, ya know, suppose
Greg Hickman [6:04]
I will. I will take that. I appreciate that. Thank you.
David Ralph [6:09]
It might mean that you’ve always looked very old.
Greg Hickman [6:12]
I get something most people most people think that I’m older than I am. I think it’s because I have some grey hairs. But you know, it’s a beer. It’s really just a beard.
David Ralph [6:22]
I’ve got two problems in my life. Not problems really. One is but I’m going great at a rate up not, but not all over, if I could go straight to like George Clooney mode. And that’s fine. Because I’ve got a theory with grey hair. But if you go grey overnight, like imagine like Steve Martin, he has looked exactly the same but the last 30 years because he’s always been great. And you never look at him thinking Oh, he’s getting old now he just looks exactly the same. So I think all of us should go grey overnight. But solidly grey not not as patches that come out
Greg Hickman [6:56]
by the side. I got a few patches.
David Ralph [6:59]
That Jupiter’s your wife like the greyness
Greg Hickman [7:03]
I think, I mean that never really bad. She’s actually my fiance. We get married in October. So we’re not married yet. But no worries. Yeah, we’ll be married soon.
And yeah, I think she likes it a little bit.
She makes fun of me that I’m old sometimes.
David Ralph [7:21]
Because I’m now getting to that point when I don’t know if you’ve had this when you go to the barbers. And then they ask you whether I would you like a colour through your hair, or by doing this fantastic thing, which I always want to say, Why? What is the matter? When they go? Would you like your eyebrows trimmed? And I think myself, what’s the matter with my eyebrows? is, you know, why are they saying this? But I say every single time have you got to that point when parts of your hair that have always been? Okay, as far as you’re concerned, people are looking at them and saying, Do you want some extra maintenance? You know, I think
Greg Hickman [7:54]
I’ve avoided that whole conversation because I’ve been cutting my own hair since high school. So I just buzz my head. And that’s me cutting my hair. And I do it, you know, once every other week. And I haven’t saw so it’s just me in there. So there’s no other, you know, stylists telling me to do any.
David Ralph [8:14]
Well, this is my last hair question. As I said before the interview started. I don’t really know what I’m going to say until it comes out. But now I know you show up. Do you just go all the way around? Do you go around your head and your beard all in one go? Or do you sort Yeah, part of it?
Greg Hickman [8:30]
I do. I usually do it all at the same time.
David Ralph [8:34]
Now, I’m so envious. I if you listen back to Episode One of his show, I have quite a deep conversation with a chap called Tom Marcus about his ability to grow facial hair, but I just can’t do I end up as good as a as I described at the time. As a pre pubescent Asian girl. I just cannot get hair coming out like like Mr. Tom Walker’s or yourself. Right? That’s the last hair question. I promise you that. So um, so can you remember you on your about page, you said that you quit your nine to five job in September 2013. Can you remember that day was I’m intrigued with that. Exactly. So yeah. So
Greg Hickman [9:13]
So actually, I got engaged in September of 2013. And I gave my my company’s notice in November. But my last day at my corporate job was actually December 13. But yeah, so between September and December, I got engaged, sold my house and quit my job.
David Ralph [9:38]
So why this is this is the question. There’s so many people out there now thinking to themselves, what I’d like to do this, I’m so scared or it’s not going to work or numerous different sort of doubts that run through their head. And you seem to sort of grab all the potential doubts in one go. And when bang? Did it did it all? Yeah. How did you overcome that that internal conflict, but all of us have,
Greg Hickman [10:02]
I mean, I’m still overcoming it.
But I mean, for me, I had been building up, mobile mixed for a year and a half, was gaining a lot of momentum, started making some money, was getting speaking arrangements getting asked to speak. And it got to the point where I need Well, I was working way too much I was working well, I still work a lot, but I’m working, you know, my nine to five, and then, you know, all through the night on mobile mixed, and it took a toll on my health, it took a toll on my relationship. And you know, what some point, you know, I just needed to just say, Okay, this Enough is enough. And, you know, for me, it was the the fear of not being able to like pay my mortgage, or pay any certain bills. And, you know, until I really sold my house, I mean, it wasn’t, it wasn’t really in the cards, I mean, I was making money on the side outside of my salary, but I didn’t have a big savings I had had probably about $20,000 in debt. And, you know, I didn’t see a path for me to keep going the way that I was going, in order to start making the type of money that I needed to make in order to in order to leave. So I my neighbour at the time had sold his house and sold it very quickly. And did did very well from selling it. So at that point, I realised that I could sell my house and make use that as an investment in myself. And you know, I sold, so I sold the house, I paid off all my debt. And then I kind of had this safety net of money that I could tap into if I needed to, you know, if things didn’t go well, at least that’s what I told myself. And you know, I was again, I was make, I was also making money on the side, at the same time I was doing some consulting, I was making money from affiliate marketing, I had a membership site, things like that. So I was making making some money, not as much as I’m making now or as I would have liked to have been making at that point. But I had incoming revenue, and now I had with the sale of the house, enough money saved up that I was able to survive at least a year, even if I were to make Not a single dollar, I would have been able to make it a year off of the profits from the house, you know, living living modestly, you know, I definitely moved into a smaller apartment smaller, you know, less rent, minimised a lot of my expenses. So I definitely shifted my lifestyle a lot, I don’t go out as much. You know, I don’t eat out as much I don’t go out and have drinks with friends as much. So I definitely made a lot of sacrifices in order to do that. But yeah, I mean, the fear didn’t go away, I just was able to manage the risk that I like my, my version of managing risk, everyone has their own way of managing the risk, and everyone has different financial situations and things like that. So I can tell you that the risk will never go away, there’s still risk, there’s risk every day. And, you know, selling the house was one thing that I did to help manage that.
David Ralph [13:26]
I think that’s a wise way of doing it. Because I actually as your journey was the same, I spent about three years building up just enough money that would pay my bills each month. And if I been sat on the sofa, I could just afford Netflix as extra. And that was it. I was never going to see anybody else again. And I went through that sort of doubt in my head when I was thinking like, okay, should I should I? Should I reduce all my bills, should I reduce everything and benefit? Well, you can’t really do that not in my life, because I’ve got kids and stuff and kids get used to a certain standard of living. So I thought to myself, what I’m going to do, I’m going to increase my income. So I started working on as you did affiliate marketing, and the kind of passive income where I could sleep and the money could come to us, but it was never enough to do the main thing. Excuse me, I’m gonna copy. Oh, apologies about that. That’s the first cough I’ve done live on any of the shows. So um, so you’re, you’re, you’re on it. And so when I actually quit, I really was in terror land. And I walked out. And I thought to myself, What do I do with my life, because the only thing that I knew that I wanted to do was not work of somebody anymore, I’d come to that natural end of that journey. But I didn’t have enough skills, I didn’t have enough talent, I didn’t have enough, whatever, to create a business overnight. But what I did have, and I’ve reflected on this a lot since was suddenly a hustle muscle that I suddenly had to develop. Because I had no other option of living, I had to get out there, I had to make contacts, I had to send emails, I had to do that. And now it is a natural thing. I wake up at like four o’clock each morning. And as soon as I open my eyes, I think Oh god, it’s too early. But suddenly, bang, watch, what should I do today? What should I do? So how do you sort of switch off when you are in the entrepreneurial journey that every moment of the day could have an impact on your business and your livelihood?
Greg Hickman [15:36]
So what was the real question? How do I manage it?
David Ralph [15:40]
Yeah, how do you how do you manage it, because I, you know, I wake up at four o’clock every morning, and I don’t want to wake up at four o’clock in the morning. And if I’m sitting there watching a film on the sofa, I’m not really watching the film, you know, how do you manage to switch off when you are in the entrepreneurial journey, that every decision that you make can ultimately affect the success of your business?
Greg Hickman [15:59]
I’m still working on that, to be honest with you, I have trouble switching off a lot. I mean, it’s an ongoing challenge. I definitely, you know, I I get up and I try to start working as soon as I can, because I feel like I’m most productive in the morning. And, you know, as it gets into the evening, you know, I’m trying to be better at this, but I’m not always good at this. Really just trying to turn off by 7pm. And you know, being okay with that, if you know my fiance is around is a lot easier to turn off at 7pm. And when she’s not, it’s really easy to to keep working. But it also comes and goes I mean, like the like right now I’m working probably a lot more than I normally would, because I’m in the process of launching a training programme for my mobile mixed audience. And, you know, I pre sold it. And I have, you know, eight people, eight charter members in the programme right now kind of navigating through the platform, and I’m finishing, creating all the content for it. So because they’ve already paid and because people already in there, I’m working, you know, every waking moment to get content into that, and all the content done for that. And you know, once all of that’s done, I’ll be able to, you know, kind of go back to a little bit more normal, normal hours. So it comes it comes and goes, right, I think there’s going to be times where you have to work, you know, all day and all night. And maybe that’s during a launch. But ideally, you know, if I could have it every day the same it would be you know, I’m working by seven 730. And I’m, you know, done by six or 7pm. At night?
David Ralph [17:52]
Well, I’m gonna make this question a lot shorter. Because the last one as I went into rambling mode, no wonder you got confused. But boy, you quit your job Did you have the image of an entrepreneur or life when you were sitting on a beach with a laptop, clicking a few buttons making income coming in, but now you’re actually into it, you realise in many ways that you are working harder than you was as an employee, because I certainly had that image of once I quit, my life is going to be my own, and I could have long lunches and all that kind of stuff. And I’m working stupid hours, Greg, I really am. And my work life balance is totally going out the window.
Greg Hickman [18:33]
Now I didn’t have that image. And I don’t want that now either. I never wanted to be able to sit on a beach and work. If I’m sitting on the beach, I want to be sitting on a beach and enjoy it. So you know, I enjoy I enjoy what I what I do, I think you know a lot of people that are at least when I was getting started into all of this, you know, there is a little bit of kind of interest for people to be able to to work from work from wherever, right. And then when people say that, then they immediately start thinking of like tropical places and things like that. But to me, like wealth, to me means working on something that I love being passionate about it. And when I want to go visit friends or family that may not be in Denver, Colorado, which is where I’m at. So I have tonnes of friends in San Diego, my family’s on the East Coast, in New Jersey, I want to be able to go there at the drop of a dime, to see my friends and family for a couple days, and come back and have that not be a financial burden, have that not be something that is you know, I have to plan three months for. And that’s it, like I don’t want to go travel. I mean, like I’d like to go travel the world for like two weeks at a time on vacation. But I don’t want to be that digital nomad, you know, that works from, you know, in all the different cities in Asia, like a lot of you know, online entrepreneurs, you know, do and want to do like that, that’s not at all of interest to me. I love working from home, I love working out of my home office I love you know, I love that. And that’s where I want to be. So like I always envisioned not having to commute 45 minutes to an hour every single day to go to this job, which was a complete like that, that time in the car outside of listening to podcasts was sort of a waste of time. And sometimes, because even longer than 45 minutes, you know, sometimes it can be an hour and a half. And and that’s you know, three hours of my day is in a car like that, that that didn’t sound fun to me. And so my vision was just to be able to work, work from home work from wherever I want. And the wherever I want was home.
David Ralph [20:48]
I used to work up in the City of London and my journey was two and a half hours each way, and set the five hours out of my day. And I had to do it the other day. And I went up there. And by the time I got there, I thought myself, I don’t think I could work after this anymore. I was so programmed into the commute was just what you do. But by the time I got off the train, and then I got an underground and I fought my way through him and I got off at the other end, I physically felt exhausted by the time I got to where I used to work for the next I hours. Now I’ve got a commute at the end of my garden, and I run up the garden, it’s 15 seconds I sit down, and I get to work. And I say to people, you know, do you realise that there are opportunities now, especially online. Now, I’m not just going online all the time, because you can set up your own business brick and mortar or whatever you want to do. But certainly on the online Avenue, it is effectively the cheapest way for you to be able to create a business and not only create a business but create a global business for you know, a nickel and dime really, isn’t it?
Greg Hickman [21:55]
Yeah, essentially. It’s it is it is a lot cheaper than it was five years ago.
David Ralph [22:02]
So what would you do? If you went back in time now? Would you do all the affiliate marketing? Would you do the membership sites? Would you still go through that route? Or would from what you’ve learnt? Now would you go straight into where you are?
Greg Hickman [22:16]
Well, I mean, affiliate was always just a little little part of it. For me, it’s never been like my whole focus. It’s always been around offering kind of consulting and now training products. So and coaching, so I mean, those have always been my main focus. Affiliate is just sort of, you know, because I use a lot of these products and I can be an affiliate, you know, I make a little bit of money every month from affiliate, but by no means is that my largest income stream, my largest income stream is actually coaching. And, you know, that’s, I would go into that I would do the exact same thing, if I did it again,
David Ralph [22:57]
when you first had your first couple, your first client, where you don’t eat, but you can pull it off.
Unknown Speaker [23:06]
Greg Hickman [23:09]
I guess a little daunted, you know, uh, you know, cuz I coached a handful of people for free to kind of get used to what, and find my own rhythm as as a coach. And then I started, you know, then I started charging. So I think that really helped me kind of figure out what my style was, and get comfortable with, you know, the format in which I was going to coach people. And so I think it was a little less scared because of that preparation. But yeah, I mean, it was like, you know, you don’t want to, you don’t want to, like disappoint the first real pain client. And I mean, I’m still working with the same client. It’s been a been working with my first coaching client I’ve been working with for now a year, almost almost a year, we’ve been working together. So I guess it didn’t go so that
David Ralph [24:06]
well, No, it didn’t. But how, you know? How would you keep on coaching somebody in the, the industry that you’re in is bad. I don’t know much about mobile marketing at all. And I’m going to ask you about that. Now, actually, what is mobile mix? But how do you keep on coaching somebody in the environment? Is it because the technology keeps on changing, and you’ve got to keep up with pace?
Greg Hickman [24:28]
Yes, and actually, the people that I coach is not necessarily around mobile marketing, it’s about it’s I coach people on building their business online. So you know, getting their their blog started getting their podcast started, you know, figuring out what type of content they should be writing, you know, building their email list. Like that’s, that’s the type of people that I’ve been coaching. And that’s just the people that have kind of been attracted to me. You know, I’ve worked with other nonprofit on a project basis when it comes to mobile. You know, and here in the I work with, you know, an agency on a particular project, but I don’t really coach on mobile, per se, it’s really all about online business.
David Ralph [25:10]
When you when you did your podcast, were you happy with it when you first started?
Greg Hickman [25:14]
what happened for me was because I started it out of selfish reasons of just wanting to build relationships with these people. I wasn’t like trying to grow an audience, although it started happening.
you know, it got to the point where, you know, I was doing a weekly show, but it was a weekly show, as a side project, you know, I had a full time job. So I got to the point where I was just chasing interview after interview after interview, like you had, or have, you know, you’ve like recorded over 70 some odd interviews already. And this is only 4043. I did not do that. I didn’t know about that. That was not a strategy that had ever been shared with me when I got started. And I was just trying to get as many interviews each and every week as I could, and, you know, there would be nights where I was editing an interview at, you know, Tuesday, at two in the morning and releasing it, you know, Wednesday, and you know, it was you know, it was just it turned into just a show, that’s all it was, it was a show and the show owned me, The show ran my life, because I didn’t put any systems or structure in place to make it easy on myself.
David Ralph [26:32]
And the actual recording process, because I’m listening to your voice at the moment. And it sounds perfect. But podcasting is kind of deep, manly voice, not like the kind of girly English accent that I have. But when you first started recording them, because I’ve been absolutely clear and transparent with people. But every single word but I have ever recorded is out there. I didn’t want anyone to come along because the idea of Join Up Dots is that we we struggle and we have successes and we bind our path in life only by going out and sort of taking action. And I didn’t want a highlight show to be out there already, but has actually been secretly practice for sort of weeks and weeks and weeks and years and years. So if you listen to episode naught point five, hopefully it’s not as good as Episode 10 and 10s. Not as good as Episode 40. And even now, but I recorded so many I have some shows, I think yes. Now that one, and others, even when I’m recording it, I think I’m all over the shop. What’s happening here. You know what, why is this happening? The guest is great. It must be me. So when you started recording your very first ones, and you listen back, how did it make you feel? Did it make you feel bad? Yes, I’m proud of it. I want to push this out, or actually, ooh, I don’t think I’m quite ready for this.
Greg Hickman [27:49]
I didn’t I didn’t do any like practice recordings, I was sort of like you I wanted, I knew that if I recorded my first interview and put it out there that I would be more motivated to, to kind of keep going because I’d see how how bad it was, and want to make it want to make the next one better. So for me, it was all about getting it out there so that I knew I would have to keep going because I didn’t want the most recent interview to be the best one I wanted. The next one to be the best one
David Ralph [28:24]
is a key thing, isn’t it. But anyone out there listening to us talk today that you have a starting point. And it doesn’t matter where it is, you have your own individual starting point. And the best thing that you can do if it if there’s something out there that you really fancy doing, I kind of believe stop listening to those people that are doing it to a point. You know, if you fancy doing a podcast, the people out there have been doing it for years and years and years. And they they will send fear down you but you can sort of match up to it. So find maybe one or two three that you can focus in, and then hone your skills. But just be aware of that, you’re not going to be very good to begin with. But just keep on going keep on going. And then suddenly, things will start clicking, and you will find your flow, and you’ll find your rhythm. And then you think actually I think I can do this.
Unknown Speaker [29:13]
Greg Hickman [29:16]
I 100% agree with that.
David Ralph [29:18]
Well, I’m glad you agreed with me because I’m you know, I’m the host of the show. And that’s
Unknown Speaker [29:23]
David Ralph [29:24]
I like a bit of agreement. I don’t get it home. So while I’m on the mic, suck up all you can, Mr. Hickman. Now? Well, while we’re actually at this point, or talking about stumbles and failures, one of the themes of the show, and it’s probably the main theme of the show is Steve Jobs speech back in 2005, when he talked to a bunch of graduates on on quite a lengthy speech, but it’s the middle bit that really resonated with me, and I built the whole show around. And this is the bit about connecting the dots and having faith and trusting that things are going to work out all right for you. And I’m going to play it now. And I want to get your feelings about this. And when you first heard it, and if you remember when you first heard it, and whether it was relevant to you now, or maybe it’s not. So this is Mr. Steve Jobs, and then we’ll speak again in a moment.
Steve Jobs [30:11]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking back 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [30:47]
So as she was saying at the beginning, you were frightened, and you are still frightened now in certain areas. So why why do it? Why do it Greg, why why trust back aren’t going to join up?
Greg Hickman [31:04]
Why wouldn’t I?
David Ralph [31:07]
Yeah, why? Why would you do it? If you’re scared? Why would you actually put yourself into that area of being scared.
Greg Hickman [31:14]
Because it’s the only way that I really felt like I was going to get to where I wanted to be. I mean, I wanted to work for myself, I wanted to run my own business, I wanted to work from home, I wanted to be able to make money and have a flexible schedule and you know, working for someone else, that was never going to happen. So no matter how scary it was to sell my house, take the leap, and, you know, dive into this 100% the only way that I felt like I even had a chance was if I gave it 100% of my time because I saw the progress that I was making with 10% of my effort and 10% of my time because I had a full time job. So you No, I just kept telling myself, Well, if I if I could have gotten this far, gotten all these speaking arrangements done all of this while on the side, imagine what I can do with 100% of my focus on it. So I mean, that’s kind of what I just kept telling myself and you know, I thankfully, I had a lot of I have worked with coaches and mentors that, you know, have really helped me along the way. And you know, without them, I don’t think I would have gotten to where I’m at right now. I mean, I work with a coach now. And I work with him every single week, once a week we talk and it is very, very critical. And key to me staying on the right path, and focus on the right things, you know, being able to bounce that off of someone. So I think with the the relationships I had built, I knew that and the my dedication to making it work, I knew that it was going to work.
David Ralph [32:57]
So do you go with the words Mr. Steve Jobs do when you listen to those? Do you actually buy into them? Or do you think now actually, it’s nice, nice words, but he doesn’t actually have any relevance to me.
Greg Hickman [33:08]
No, 100% resonates with me. I mean, like, how can you connect the dots to something that you can’t see in the future? I mean, obviously, when you look backwards, oh, yeah, like that makes sense of that makes sense how I got here, you know, I did all I did x, y, z, and you can start painting that path. But you know, you don’t know exactly where you’re going to go tomorrow, you might have an idea. But that’s also the great part about this is, you know, I know where I want to, I have like goals for myself of you know, what I want to accomplish. But there’s a number of ways I can get there. I can get there, you know, zigzagging my way through, I can get there direct path. And, you know, I have to figure out what that is. And you know, which is the right path for me, personally, and whether it’s, you know, maybe it’s not that maybe the right path isn’t the fastest path, you know, so, or the most comfortable path for that matter. So I just I’ve been through my coach, kind of learned that, you know, if, as an entrepreneur, you need to, I’m saying you, but really, I mean, me, as an entrepreneur, I need to be or find comfort in uncomfortable situations, because that’s where all of the breakthroughs end up happening. So now when I say this doesn’t really feel so good, or this doesn’t feel right, like that’s when I know I’m on the right path, because I just got to keep down this path because it doesn’t feel right, which means there’s some, I’m somehow on the right, I’m on the right path, even though it doesn’t feel comfortable. But you know, pushing yourself to that extreme is when I think you know, the true kind of greatness within us is able to come out.
David Ralph [35:00]
That is brilliant, I’ll be honest with you, that is brilliant. And I want people to really reflect on what Greg just said, because that really does emphasise everything, but I’m trying to get out there on a daily basis. If you feel scared, it’s generally because it’s something that you’re not comfortable with. And the only way that you can become comfortable is by following that path. Now, when I started this, I was terrified, absolutely terrified. Now looking back on it, I kind of think to myself, Why was I so terrified, is only having a conversation recording and putting it out on the on the online world. But I was I was totally terrified. Now, I’m terrified, but other things. But I know that those kind of things are the things that are ultimately going to lead me to whatever I want to achieve. So you really do have to focus in on your gut your intuition, and if you are scared, and if you are uncomfortable, that’s actually a good thing. Isn’t it bad? The thing that you should listen to yourself and go, this is meaning, but I’m going to be growing somehow.
Greg Hickman [36:07]
Yeah, I mean, it’s, it really is that, you know, anyone listening, like if you’re on the fence of what, you know, what should you do? When should you take the leap? Like, there’s never really going to be a good time. Like, and you’ll always find a way to tell yourself that though, that there will never be a good time. And there’s always going to be risk. There’s always going to be fear. I mean, if you listen to my my latest podcast called leaving corporate, I mean, you talk to these entrepreneurs that, you know, found a way to, you know, start making money on the side and leave their job. Like almost all of them still have challenges today struggles today. I mean, john Lee Dumas was on my first my first interview, thankfully, he’s a very good friend of mine, he deals with challenges every single day, like he’s trying to get better every single day. Sometimes he’s scared. I mean, you could look at how much money he’s making. And there’s still things that scare him, like, because there’s so much uncertainty, like who knows what tomorrow is going to bring? And that’s okay, you don’t need to know. Like you can, you can just keep building and working on the thing that you’re working on. And you’ll get there because, like what I, you know, work with some of my own coaching students, it’s like, look at what got you here, like, you’re already here, like, you’re already doing great things. And you know, you’ve been doing a lot of other stuff to get here. So why not look back to see what you were doing that even got you to this place? And I say the same thing about myself, like, I must have been doing something, right? Because, you know, I’m getting asked to be interviewed, I’m getting asked to speak, you know, so I’m doing something right. So why not keep doing what I’m doing. And I mean, I didn’t know what I was doing last month, and I continue to keep growing. So you know, it’s like, you just have to kind of trust in yourself and have faith in yourself that what you’re working on is you’re working on the right things and you’ll you’ll find out if it’s the right thing by keep by by continuing to focus on it
David Ralph [38:06]
is a funny thing, you know, a flippantly at the beginning I said Mr. Lee Dumas homecoming for you. But I do kind of feel that now if anybody is out there. In podcasting land, I’m sure that you’ve heard of the show Entrepreneur on Fire. But john Lee Dumas was really a four runner, well, he certainly inspired me to go daily, I don’t think it would even crossed my mind. But you could put a structure in to be able to do a daily show. And the fact that he is to use the American praise, which we don’t use in the United Kingdom crushing it. But he’s still scared. It’s, it’s amazing, isn’t it? Because you would think at that level of success, and you can go on these show, and you can see his income reports. And he’s last time I think I looked at it was like 200,000 a month, you kind of think to yourself, okay, be scared for four months, and then enjoy yourself for the rest of the year, you know, on that kind of money? Why do you need to be scared. But of course, it’s because he’s going going into the unknown. He’s trying to prove himself. He’s trying to find avenues to change and to develop his business. And it’s refreshing. But you say that, because it certainly in my early little stage, I’m going at now, to see his success is something that, you know, obviously, I want to replicate. But as I become more and more scared, because Bisping gets bigger and bigger and bigger, I will find that quite comforting that he is scared as well.
Greg Hickman [39:29]
Yeah, and it’s funny, because, you know, when I first got started, you know, a lot of us look at, and I don’t know if this is going to be super, I think this is relevant. So bear with me on this one. A lot of relevant about you shaking your head. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, I mean, one of the things I often hear when I’m like talking to entrepreneurs that are just getting started is that like, they start comparing themselves to, like, for example, if I’m talking to someone, if someone listening right now is just getting started. You can’t compare yourself to john Lee Dumas, you can’t compare yourself to Pat Flynn, at least, though you can’t compare yourself to them right now. If you could go and find out what john Lee Dumas was like, on day one, or what Pat Flynn was like on day one, that would make more sense. But most of us never tend to do that, or think in that way. And I’m guilty of this too. I do this just as I do this as well, I’ve gotten I’ve gotten a lot better with it. But we compare ourselves to someone who’s been doing this for seven years, and I mean, seven or eight years, and pat Flynn’s case, you know, John’s been doing this for a couple of years now, you know, so, like, you can’t, you can’t look at their level of success, to where they’re at in this moment in time and be hard on yourself, because you’re not there, because they were the exact same as you when they just started. And that’s what you need to understand. And a lot of people like look up to, you know, you know, those folks, and you don’t even other, you know, online, successful online entrepreneurs, and they’re like, they look at them like celebrities, right? But they’re exactly like, you and I, right? You know, they all started with not having a blog, not having a podcast, they all like a lot of them started with a full time job that they loved. And they found themselves where they’re at today over the course of multiple years of putting in extremely hard work, and figuring it out each and every day. And, you know, anyone listening? Just know that like, even today, those people have challenges and they’re trying to figure out, Okay, well, how do I get my business to the next level? And that’s why they got to where they’re at today. Because every single day, they’re still asking themselves, how am I going to take this further? How am I going to impact more people? How am I going to affect more businesses? How am I going to help more people get started online? Like, and how am I going to take my business to the next level? Like just because John’s doing $200,000 a month? Doesn’t mean he’s not sitting saying, Well, how am I going to get to 25? How am I going to get to 250? Like he has those conversations and whether that number was 200, or 250, like he was having that same conversation with was when it was how am I going to get from zero to 1000? How am I going to get from 1000 to 2000? Like, you know, it’s you’re just they just started earlier, so you can’t look at yourself and compare yourself to, to those people where they’re at right now. Because they were exactly where you’re at when they first started.
David Ralph [42:27]
I remember listening to a podcast A while back. And it’s a somebody who has inspired me as well when I talk about him on the show. And I know you’ve been on his show because I listened to and it was Mr. Michael O’Neill and on Oh, yeah, he’s a soda pioneer. Oh,
Unknown Speaker [42:41]
yeah. And one of these guests
David Ralph [42:43]
said, there is no good or bad. You’re just on a different timeline. And so if you look at somebody who is doing something, and they’re really nailing it, it’s just because they are on a timeline If further down the line. And when I listened to this, I I found it liberating that I thought you’re absolutely right. So I can start. And I can allow myself to be rubbish. Because if I work at it, work at it work at it, I can then move down that timeline. And ultimately, I’m going to get close to or hopefully catch up some of these guys, because I have worked at it. And as I’m here at the moment, I’m talking to you, Greg, and I envy you because I had those same thoughts. I’m looking at you thinking, God, he’s got it. So salted, he’s got it. So controlled. He’s doing this. He’s doing that. And he’s preparing for this business. And he’s doing that and all kind. And I’m just kind of making it up as I go along. And every day I said, Yeah, and it’s strange, and anyone’s listening out there every time. And I’ve said this so many times, every time I turn the microphone on, and I go Hello, and welcome to I think oh my god, what am I going to talk about? Is it going to flow? Is it gonna, you know, stumble into nothing? And I’m really feel like I’m kind of barging along, really, I’m just about getting through it with the skin of my teeth. But now I look at it. And I think well, this is the 43rd episode. And I’ve been doing on a daily basis. And there’s not many people out there that are doing daily shows. So I must be ahead of the curve. But I don’t feel like it. I really don’t feel like it. I feel like I’m making it up as I go along. And I feel I’ve had I’ve got no idea what I’m doing in any shape or form. But I look at people like you. And I think that’s what I want to be I want to be Mr. Hickman
Greg Hickman [44:31]
Yeah, and, and so I want to I want to make a statement based on what you just said. So you made a comment, you know, at some point, I’ll catch up.
Why do you need to catch up?
David Ralph [44:44]
That’s a very good question.
Greg Hickman [44:47]
So So here’s my, here’s my thing.
David Ralph [44:49]
I know the answer, actually, okay. Because I have an image in my head. And I’ve mentioned this before, but I have people that I aspire to be. And I have people like Michael O’Neill on the sort of Pioneer on john Lee Dumas. And these guys, and I had this image or going to San Diego, because I’m in the United Kingdom, going to San Diego, having a beer and feeling like I’m an equal. And it’s as simple as about, I think it’s the internal dialogue that I feel like I’ve created worth in myself. And I think that’s when I say catching up, I wouldn’t want to be having a conversation with any of these guys thinking, Oh, my God, oh, my God, I’m so in awe of them. I would like to go in and go, yeah, I’ve got my own show. And I’m on iTunes. And I’m doing this and I’m doing that. And we’re just coming from slightly different angles, but we are kind of equals. Does that make sense?
Greg Hickman [45:49]
Yeah, and I think, and what I want to make sure that the people listening, take away is something that I was guilty of, in the past, which definitely slowed me down, and it’s letting the success of other people define what success means to you, like you can anyone could go out there and say, oh, Pat Flynn makes you know, 70 or $80,000 a month, or whatever. And all of a sudden, their goal is to make 70 or $80,000 a month, like why does your goal have to be 70 or $80,000 a month, like, you don’t have to have the same goals as Pat and like, just because he’s making seven or $8,000 a month doesn’t mean that that’s necessarily what his goal of success of his definition of success means, you know, so I think we look at these people, like look at people just because we have the ability to see some of this transparency, and like we measure ourselves against what other people have done. And then all of a sudden, we’re not even defining what success means to us. We’re just letting other people do it. And I think that’s a big mistake. Because, you know, I’ve talked to people that make way less than then, you know, john, or Pat or whoever, and they’re completely happy, you know, but they’re not, they’re not measuring themselves against anyone else, but themselves. And that’s what you need to be doing. You know, and that’s what we all need to be doing. We can’t be comparing, it’s not a, it’s not a, you know, it’s either gonna be him or me, you know, we can all be successful, and we can all be happy. You know, you just have to define what that means for you.
David Ralph [47:28]
I want Greg Hickman on every show, I’m gonna, I’m gonna market you, we’re going to have little bendy Hickman that we can put in the back of the car. And we’ll just quote like a kind of ben de Yoder. Every now and again, every time you go around the corner, you come out with some kind of wise words. Have you ever been called a ben de Yoder?
Greg Hickman [47:48]
I haven’t. I like it, though.
David Ralph [47:52]
Some talking about the transparency. Because a lot of these guys out there now as you say you do look at their income reports. And I’m not sure whether you know, I don’t want this to be the Pat Flynn fan club. But I don’t know whether he was the first person to do this. But it certainly seems to my knowledge that he was one of the first people to say, this is what I’m earning on a monthly basis. But do you think it’s a good thing that you’re doing this? Or do you think ultimately is a bad thing? Because we do look at it with stars in our eyes?
Unknown Speaker [48:24]
I think it’s a good thing.
Greg Hickman [48:27]
I think it’s a good thing. Well, so Okay, so here’s the challenge. I think it’s, I think it’s a good thing that they’re doing it. But unfortunately, they don’t have control over how people respond to it. So they’re doing it for good intentions. And from my understanding, Pat was the first one that did it too. But what’s great is you can go back, and you can go back and look to when Pat was making way less, you know, so like you can see over the seven or eight years or whatever it’s been like, how he’s grown. And that’s important. But what what what the problem is, most people probably don’t go back and look at all that, you know, like, I wish there was a way that you could, we could force everyone to look at his first income report, which was still amazing, by the way. But I mean, if everyone was forced to go back and look at each one, to before they can see the most recent, you would see that it’s taken a long, long time for him to get there. It’s not like he’s just did this overnight. So I think, you know, unfortunately, you know, whoever, whoever shares their income, they can’t really control how the viewer of that report is going to interpret that and and digest that. I think it’s going to intimidate it’ll it’ll intimidate some people, it will make them say, Oh, I can’t do that. Not me like that’s, you know, only only they can do that. So that’s the unfortunate part about it. But I do think it’s a good thing, because when you track it over time, you really do see the growth. And that it, you know, it wasn’t an overnight success by any means.
So that’s kind of my take on that.
David Ralph [50:16]
what’s what’s super skills? have you got?
Unknown Speaker [50:19]
Greg super skills? Yeah, I don’t have any super skills,
David Ralph [50:23]
you have no super skills at all, you know, we’re sitting here, as we say, and there’s people out there listening to the highlights, basically, you’re doing, you know, great stuff out there, you’re helping all these companies, and you’re coaching. And there’s certain people out there, and then probably those people out there that are in corporate jobs, and they would love to be doing what you’re doing at the moment. So when you first started, what super skills Did you have that set you apart from our listeners?
Greg Hickman [50:51]
Um, I don’t think it’s a super skill, I just think it was something that I have a knack for? Do I have a really good knack for coming, connecting with the right people and the influencers and building really good relationships with them? And that’s something that, you know, I’ve been pretty good at and has definitely benefited the growth of myself personally, and my business. So, but that all came from just asking questions, being genuine, and actually caring to contribute. You know, I was out there commenting on Pat’s blog, you know, before I ever knew him, when I found an opportunity to get him on my podcast, I got him on my podcast as a guest. When I was getting ready to go to my first conference, I had asked, I shot Pat an email, I said, Hey, you know, you know, and this is after I had interviewed him, so he knew who I was a little bit, and I said, Hey, if you could go to only one conference, you know, and you didn’t have a lot of money, your first conference, where would you go, he told me to go to New Media Expo, and he said, hey, let’s hang out, would love to meet you in person. And I was like, Alright, sweet. So I went to New Media Expo, like, basically to meet Pat, you know, like, so like, I continue trying to build that relationship. And now I’m very blessed, grateful, and, you know, pumped that he’s a very good friend of mine, you know, we talked on a regular basis. And that’s just from me caring about what he’s doing. And, like, genuinely caring and reaching out to him and being a friend and supporting him in ways that, you know, whether it’s commenting on his blog, or leaving a review for his podcast, or, you know, sharing his stuff, you know, giving him ideas or feedback when I just felt like I could add value. You know, doing that with those sorts of people has really, really helped me. And, you know, I think is a part of how I have been able to grow.
David Ralph [52:50]
So anyone out there could do the same.
Greg Hickman [52:53]
Absolutely. There’s nothing super about it. It’s just, it’s just putting in the effort.
David Ralph [52:58]
He’s overcoming that fear again, isn’t it is overcoming? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Greg Hickman [53:03]
Overcoming that fear. Because I could have been like, oh, why is packing a talk? What? Talk to me, you know, like, I could have been saying those things, too. But I didn’t even care because like, I mean, he’s so transparent online. Like, I mean, he shares his family. Like, he feels just like a regular person, like he’s like, which because he is, you know, just like everybody else. And it for I don’t know, for me that made it seem like he was easy to engage with. And he was,
David Ralph [53:29]
I’ve actually got him coming on the show, he’s agreed to come on the show, as has Michael O’Neill, as has john Lee Dumas. And I keep on putting them off.
Greg Hickman [53:39]
And I am before them, Yolanda for them,
David Ralph [53:42]
you’re on a long way before them. And I keep on thinking why I should do it. Now. I should do it now. But because it they were people that I looked up to when I started this. I’m still a bit frightened, but I’m not going to do myself justice. I was like that there was a chap called Rick Calvert don’t know, you know? Yeah. And he was on episode 20. And I was basically having an out of body experience leading up to that one, because I felt like he was going to say, you are rubbish. And because I’m New Media Expo head and the blogging person, I’m going to pull the mic out of you and cut your electricity off and you’re never going to do it again. Now, there was no reason for that kind of fear. But as I went into it, I bought a copy good on this one got to be good on this one. And those guys, I’m kind of I should just do them. I should just say Come on, let’s book it in and just do it. But I don’t I keep on moving on. Moving on as I just gotta do it. I still have those fears. I still have those fears, Mr. Hitman,
Greg Hickman [54:37]
you’re 43 episodes, or more than that recorded like, you’re well more prepared. You’re so prepared to be doing having those conversations Just do it.
David Ralph [54:47]
A stupid in a stupid? Yeah. I don’t know why. I don’t know why. Well, just before I let you off the leash and let you run around Colorado doing whatever Americans doing Colorado. This is the part of the show that I like to call the Sermon on the mic. And this is when I send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And what kind of advice would you give to the young Greg Hickman and you can choose any age, it can be a five year old, it could be an 11 year old, it could even be a toddler. Whatever advice you want to give to them. This is the Sermon on the mic, and when the music fades out, you’re on.
Greg Hickman [55:49]
So the biggest thing the biggest advice I could give is to not overcommit because overcommitting will get you down on yourself when you don’t, when you really don’t meet those objectives. So make sure that you’re not kind of putting too much on your plate. Because you can easily you can easily you’re going to put too much on your plate. And when you don’t accomplish those things, it’s going to be really easy to beat yourself up over it. So make sure that when you put plans in place when you give yourself goals, that they’re reasonable goals, they’re realistic goals. And there are goals that allow you to push yourself, but also also are our obtainable goals, because you want to build momentum and momentum is one of the most powerful things that you can do for yourself is build that momentum. And outside of that over commitment, if you can look far as far in the future as possible, and determine what your goals are, and break them down in into mini goals are many milestones. Aim for the mini milestones each and every day each and every week, each and every month. And as you continue to reach those mini goals. You’ll get to your bigger goals.
David Ralph [57:16]
Mr. Greg Hickman, it’s been an absolute delight to have you on the show today, you’ve been open, generous and extremely talkative, which is great guest. And as I say to everyone, please come back, especially when you launch your next product. So because the thing about joining the dots, it’s not just looking backwards, it is actually those dots keep on moving forward as well. And I do believe that by joining up those dots and connecting our past we really have the best opportunities to build our future. Mr. Greg Hickman, thank you so much.
Greg Hickman [57:47]
Thank you, The pleasure is all mine.
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you are wants to become. So he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that ever successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to Join Up Dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on Join Up Dots.