Growth Expert joins us on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots Podcast.
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Growth Expert Colin Scotland
Growth Expert Colin Scotland is once again joining us on the Steve jobs inspired Join Up Dots business podcast.
He first appeared on the show back in January 2022 and then just a few weeks ago.
Generally on Join Up Dots we get an expert on to talk about their lives, successes, failures and ultimate redemption.
Todays show is different, as this time we have invited our guest on to talk about something specific.
A subject that everyone at Join Up Dots is passionate about….fighting growth for growths sake in business.
You see the world is obsessed with more more and more, forgetting that for many this growth at all costs dilutes the quality of what you can actually provide to your clients.
Taking you in directions that can make your forget that ultimately all sales are a real person hoping to solve their own issues.
So is this just fanciful thinking, and being antigrowth is just a word for treading water in business?
And why was this guest the one we reached out to discuss this subject with us today on the show.
Well lets find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr ChatGPT Colin Scotland
During the show we discussed such weighty subjects with ChatGPT expert Colin Scotland such as:
Colin shares how he started his entrepreneurial journey and why he focused more on growth than the passion of helping others at first
Why the white knuckle ride of business can be exhilarating, but should always be controlled and measured whenever possible
We discuss why most businesses have to tolerate the pain and issues to become truly effortless and enjoyable
Allowing your brain to truly expand and see what’s possible in your business is the first dot of having the lifestyle business you want.
How To Connect With Colin
If you enjoyed this episode of Colin Scotland why not listen to some of our favourite podcast episodes such as Bruce Van Horn, Ted Yoder, Sean Swarner or the amazing Elliot Chapman
Or if you prefer just pop over to our podcast archive for thousands of amazing episodes to choose from.
Full Transcription Of Growth Discussion
Life shouldn’t be hard life should be a fun filled adventure every day. So now start joining up dots tap into your talents, your skills, your God given gifts and tell your boss, you don’t deserve me. I’m out of here. It’s time for you to smash that alarm clock. And start getting the dream business and life you will, of course, are dreaming of. Let’s join your host, David Ralph from the back of his garden in the UK, or wherever he might be today with another JAM PACKED episode of the number one hit podcast. Join Up Dots.
David Ralph [0:40]
Yeah, good morning to you. Good morning to you and welcome to Join Up Dots. Well, this is gonna be a different show, because today’s guest is joining us on the show for the third time. Yeah, he first appeared on the show back in January 2022. And then just a few weeks ago, and generally on Join Up Dots, we get an expert on to talk about their lives, their successes, failures and sort of ultimate redemption. Now today’s show is different as this time, we’ve invited our guests on to talk about something specific, a subject that everyone at Join Up Dots is passionate about fighting growth for growth’s sake in business, you see, the world is obsessed with more and more forgetting that for many, this growth at all costs, can actually dilute the quality of what you can actually provide to your clients and within your business taking you in directions that can make you forget, but ultimately, all sounds are a real person hoping to solve their own issues. So is this just fanciful thinking and being anti growth is just a word for sort of treading water in business? And why was this guest the one we reached out to to discuss his subject with us today on the show? Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show to Join Up Dots with the one and only Mr. Collins, Scotland. Good morning again, Tony, how are you?
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [2:01]
Good morning, David. I am wonderful. Thank you so much for having me on. Again. I’m super excited about our conversation.
David Ralph [2:08]
Well, we’ve had a super exciting conversation. We’ve been chatting for half hour, and then I suddenly realised Oh, hang on, the reason you was here was to, to record a podcast episode. So it’s a connection. I feel like we’ve got a connection that goes beyond podcasts now.
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [2:26]
I agree. 100%. And, you know, it’s interesting that we’re talking about anti growth, because it’s, it’s deeper than the numbers in the business, this game of business is much more than just numbers on a spreadsheet. It is it is all about that connection. And I think that’s, that’s an interesting spark for for where we’re going with this today, man.
David Ralph [2:49]
Well is because it through Join Up Dots, I do a lot of one to one, I spend more time responding to individual emails, vain, doing well don’t do Facebook, and all that kind of stuff. And it’s kind of easy to get some in your head and bash it out. And hopefully 20,000 People have got it. But to me, it’s not as powerful as responding one to one to somebody’s issues. Now, this is what sort of led me into this, this passion about anti growth, because a lot of my competitors and colleagues say to me, Oh, you’re mad, why don’t you just do a zoom meeting? Why don’t you just do this, I do all that as well. But I still can’t get away from the fact of everything through Join Up Dots and through business is dealing with one person’s personal issues. And if you can help with that, it might take you more time, but it really grows the roots of your business, discuss
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [3:54]
the reality, you know, there’s there’s nothing more than this moment that’s in front of you right now, the moment where you’re listening to the show, we’re having this conversation. And this is the only thing that exists. Everything else is superfluous to life, right? So having and being fully present in this moment means that you are 100% with the thing that’s in front of you right now. I am 100% here for this conversation with you with David, and the people listening and it’s like, this is the only thing that matters in this moment. So when that translates into the game of business and the dealing with inquiries and all of the stuff that goes on inside of that, you only have to focus on the thing that’s in front of you right now. And that often is a person, another human being with which you can have a wonderful opportunity to make a connection that changes something in that person. And I love that saying of always leave people with the feeling of increase? And how wonderful is that to go into every interaction, trying to help that person that you’re interacting with, to feel a little bit better about themselves? Now, we make the world better, David, you
David Ralph [5:18]
know we do and in business, it’s I don’t know what is the right way now, because I, I’ve moved through a journey where in the early days, it was all about growth, growth, growth, because you’re getting it going, you’re trying to start, you’re starting from nothing. But you get to a certain point. And you think, Well, I’m doing away another client, another base, and another that will just take me more away from the life I want to being trapped into the business. So let’s take it back, Colin to when we first started. Okay. So we’re sitting there, we’re in our lucky underpants. And we’ve got a laptop in front of us. And we’re thinking to ourselves, right, we’re going to start this business. We’re going to start up this now. Were you thinking to yourself global domination, I want 1000s and 1000s of followers, I want this and I want that, or were you at that stage thinking No, is about deep meaningful connection? Because I tell you, I wasn’t I was Mr. Shallow in the in the early days. Yeah.
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [6:22]
Yeah, me too. Me too. I think the reality look, the reality is, I’ve been very high. And I’ve been very low in my successes and failures, right. And the reality is, when you’re starting out, you’ve got to, you got to have air to breathe, if we can’t breathe air in, our bodies gonna die, and we’re not going to even exist, right? So when you starting out, you’ve got to have money coming into your business, you’ve got to have revenue. And so that causes us to fixate and focus on sales and growth in that sense. Like, we need clients, we need numbers. And so of course, like you, when I started, it was, oh, you know, I just want, I want to earn more money, I want to, I want to get to this level of revenue, and then this level of revenue, and then this level of revenue. And that means I need five clients, I need 10 clients, I need 50 clients, and and it was all about numbers and growth on a very superficial level initially, so so no, I didn’t start with that, hey, I want to change people’s lives. It was, hey, I want to, I want oxygen to breathe, you know, I want, I want money in my bank account, I want to be able to pay my bills. And I think the reality of that is, it’s okay, we all need oxygen, we all need to breathe. I work with a lot of people now who are what I call mission or purpose driven. So they’re, they’re led by something that feels bigger than themselves, something that’s outside of them. And it may be helping vulnerable people. It may be charity work, it’s all manner of things for a not for profit. And a lot of those people get hung up on the idea of being commercial and making money. And I think the two are separate. I think one of the things I’ve come to realise, David, I don’t know about your I’d love to hear your take on this. But it’s okay, to make money. It’s okay to make lots of money. But that’s not the main focus. And I think what happens when you’re very early on in the journey is, it is the main focus until you’ve got that comfort blanket of something in the bank that’s covering the bills. And like you say you get to a point where I’m doing okay, you know, I’m doing okay, and then when you’re okay, it’s Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, isn’t it? Once you’ve got those basic needs met, you’re then able to look at actualizing self and being something that is more something that is bigger, but you can’t do that, if you can’t breathe.
David Ralph [8:44]
Yeah, I Well, I will be totally transparent. I bloody love earning money. And I really love earning money when there’s not much effort involved in it. So when I look at my bank account, and money’s just come in, and you know, that is great, but equally on the ying and yang. I don’t feel as excited about that, as I do when somebody sends me an email. And they tell me that just because they’ve listened to the show silently for three years, by now are ready to do something or I’m there to help them or whatever, you know, that’s the real fuel. Now, I could argue, but I’m only feeling the excitement for that because I’ve now cupboard as you say, my needs and I don’t have to worry about money. I don’t have to worry about time, whatever. That’s all cupboard. So I can be more more focused on the passion side of Join Up Dots, which was always about saying to people out there Look, I didn’t have a bloody clue when I started. I just turned up every day and tried and things sort of move your way. And if you’re willing to do that, you can do anything you want, you know, but it It doesn’t get me away from the fact of there was a time in my life that I was greedy for growth. But I couldn’t have articulated why other than ego, I think that’s the only thing I would have just thought global domination was the way to go. Because it kind of looked good and made me look good. And I used to have these fantasies of walking into a place and they would all cheer because, you know, it means nothing does it but that ego based growth, but we kind of see, as prevalent. Colin, that actually is, it’s bad for you somehow.
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [10:40]
It is. And I think what we what we have to bear in mind with all of this is that, as things progress in business, we progress as individuals as well. And so where we start out, oh, I need this, I need that I need the other, we come to a place of realising that there’s more, there’s more to it than just bringing money into the business and making yourself look good in front of others. And that that’s a that’s a personal growth. So what you’ve just described there, David is a real evolution of self where you’ve come from a place of, of being driven by ego, to being more in what Michael singer calls the seat of self, that place of, of seeing the reality that ego is just falseness like, what people think of you doesn’t matter, even though we feel like it does what we think it does. And then going about business in a different way, where you’ve got a more of a detachment from how you look in the outcome, because this is the thing, we get so excited, and so embroiled in what we’re doing, that our identity gets wrapped up in the business. And I think this is where it’s important that we grow as individual business owners. And then the the thing is this, it’s interesting, because, actually, that if we don’t grow, the business hits a ceiling, the business will, like hit a wall, because the business grows to the extent that we do. And then and that that really is the driver, the driver has to come from inside of us. And not from this place of like you say, of ego of, oh, you know, how good do I look for doing this? Right? So
David Ralph [12:25]
this is interesting. So you think that increased growth actually is more as a personal development thing, more than a business, your business is growing, so you become more competent yourself, which then helps that the business growth. So on that side of the fence, we would say that growth is a good thing, because it allows personal and professional development, broadening our sort of skills and expertise to take us to the next level.
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [12:55]
Yeah, absolutely. And I think the reality of that is that as we become, as we become more evolved, we grow, we develop, things open up for us. So we get new experiences, we have new understandings and new ways of doing things in business. And that helps us to grow. So we have to, we have to always be learning and we have to always be actively developing self. And that’s where I think that’s where I think growth is a really powerful mechanism. When we look at it as looking at things as opportunities for growth. You know, that’s not to say that you sum that happens, and you get a flood of revenue or sales into your business that doesn’t cause headaches, because it absolutely does. And it’s about I think it’s more about doing things for the right reason and doing the right way, rather than, hey, let’s go and conquer the world. Because our ego wants to feel good about itself. It’s different, isn’t it?
David Ralph [13:58]
Is what so I can take off fat, as in the growth concept, personal development, it’s good we can we can put that on the side of the fours. When somebody comes along and says to you, Look, I get time and time again. Hey, David checked out your website, check out your business, we can help you get increased growth. I can actually look at that and think, okay, is this helping me get past personal growth or business growth and if it’s a personal growth, I could be more willing to accept what they’re offering because most people will come through to you and it’s just a monetary growth
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [14:37]
Yes, and often it’s playing on that emotion of, of hope and anticipation, that sense of you know, I may be struggling to pay my bills or I’ve just lost a client or some stuff happens. We all have the stuff that happens in our lives and business. And then this, this little carrot is dangled in front of you of hey, you You know, we can get you 10 new clients a week of what would your business look like if we were to flood 100 grand a week into it? You know? And, and it’s that sense of, maybe there’s an answer out there, maybe there’s something different over there for me. And so often these things are illusionary, they’re not real. So there’s a lot of smoke and mirrors with this, these kinds of those kinds of emails that you’ve alluded to there, David, anyway. And then and then not just that, but what would your business look like, actually, with 100 grand a week, right now? Whatever you’re doing, so whatever your number is, in your business on a weekly basis, what would your business what would happen to your business? If it weren’t? 100x? So 100x, that number that’s in your head right now? How would you actually deal with that in the business, and some people will be sat there going, Wow, this marvel is great, right? I would love it. I’ll be on a beach in Bali sipping Mai Tai is, but the reality is, it would cause equally a lot of a lot of problems as well, you know,
David Ralph [15:58]
when he does, because this takes us into the sort of against, I suppose, because you suddenly go from that point to one where your personal workload can be quite overwhelming, because the infrastructure of the business is not set up for suddenly bad increase in clients or whatever. And I find is that those times that ultimately, it gives you a lack of focus, you lose yourself, you can’t see the wood for the trees, because suddenly, your nice little car, but it’s been chugging along at 30 miles an hour and getting you from A to B is suddenly going at 600 miles an hour, and you can’t get your feet on the pedals quick enough. And you’re just sort of going for a roller coaster ride. And that is one of those times in business that I wouldn’t want to go back to. I know it’s kind of exciting and exhilarating. But I like to be controlled. Now. I like to know what’s happening day by day. And the next step, not suddenly going for that kind of Lewis Hamilton drive through my town in a business I can’t control.
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [17:08]
Yeah, the the white knuckle ride of business is not a fun. Well, I say it’s not a fun one to be on. I almost became an alcoholic when I was on that journey. I not, you know, I’m not I didn’t in the end. But I was drinking far too much whiskey at the time because of the white knuckle elements of it. And, yeah, it’s not it’s not a fun place to be. It’s exhilarating. But it’s destroy its destructive as well.
David Ralph [17:36]
Well, wait, it’s good. You know, we all go to a theme parks, and we go on these rides, and we go, that was exciting. But if you’re sitting on there all day, or God forbid, you see these rides where they stop when the people are hanging upside down. And they’re there for three or four hours. And you think to yourself, that just looks terrible. And that’s how I look at it when the business is out of control, that you’ve just got blood rushing to your head, and you can’t think straight and decision making is poor. Instead of that, what is the next thing to do? You know, we play this speech by Oprah. And it’s playing again, because it’s so important this and it really talks about being measured.
Oprah Winfrey [18:19]
The way through the challenge is to get still and ask yourself, what is the next right move? not think about, oh, I
David Ralph [18:29]
got all of this stuff. What is the next right move. And then from that space, make the next right move, and the next right move, and not to be overwhelmed by it. Because you know, your life is bigger than that one moment, you know, you’re not defined by what somebody says, is a failure for you. Because failure is just there to point you in a different direction. So when somebody comes through to your Colin, and says to you, Colin, we’ve looked at your business, and it normally comes through LinkedIn and stuff. And we can provide you another 40 clients a month. Is it better for most entrepreneurs to think now actually, I go for two, I just go for two, because then I can build it into my processes. I can see how it actually works. When opening the floodgates can can you just do that in business? Because I’ll tell you why I’d struggle. I’ve got the infrastructure to be able to deal with it. But I think I’d still be struggle struggling to provide value to that many people instantly.
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [19:30]
I think it’s a question of scalability and, and it’s all about the business model with which you deliver your service. And that that really dictates the number of the number of clients and the amount of growth that you can handle before. You mentioned the car, the 30 mile an hour car doing 600 miles an hour, the wheels are gonna start falling off. The chassis is gonna go the engine is going to explode. It’s just going to fall apart. When I built my E commerce business it was it was an interesting journey of growth. And restriction and then growth and restriction. And what would happen, we would sell physical products, we would get orders on the website. And then I would go around the store, my dad had a store in Warrington and I would go around the store, pick the items off, put them in a box, and then a van would come and collect the boxes at the end of the day. So we would get when it first started two or three orders. And there’ll be piled up in the foyer of the shop waiting to be collected by the delivery guy. And that was great. I mean, it was a side hustle for me at the time. And I was earning a bit of money, my dad would make me laugh. He’s like Dell boy, you’d come in with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth. Falling over the box is going bloody internet wasted time that it will never amount to anything. You know, it reminded me of that John Lennon thing when he’s playing the guitar. And his Aunt Mimi says John, the guitar is great, but you’ll never make a living playing it. And I saw that. So that business it began like that right boxes in the fourth day. And then it got to the point where like five orders a day turned into 50. And now all of a sudden, where I was just doing this on my lunch break. And in the spare time doing my job. I couldn’t do that I just couldn’t get that there wasn’t enough space in the form A so the Fourier became part of the warehouse side. And then and then it even out very fastly kind of outgrows that. So that the ability to fulfil the business that was coming in, like I hit a bottleneck, so I couldn’t take any more orders because I couldn’t physically do it. And then at that point, you get into the question of scalability around people, systems and processes. So there has to be people in place to fulfil the business that you’re doing. There has to be processes in place. So how do we go about like picking and packing, I would just be like walking up and down the shop, grabbing random things off of a list, right? And then that’s okay, when I’m doing five orders a day. But then when that business grew, and we were doing 500 orders a day, that’s a completely different kettle of fish. So if you make that jump from five to 50, it’s easy just to make those modifications to what you’re doing. When if you made the jump from five to 500, it would have all fell down, it would have completely collapsed. And that’s the testimony to that scalability that we spoke about. So how is your business made up right now? How do you how do you acquire clients? And how do you fulfil that service or that product for your clients? Because the two things work in tandem. And it’s very much about developing a model that allows you to scale to the level that you want to scale. And that’s the that’s the big thing. So somebody came to me today and said, Hey, Colin, I’d like to give you 40 More coaching clients, I would be like, No thanks. I have a capacity of coaching clients. And, you know, I’m almost at capacity, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t handle 40 coaching clients. But then if they were to say, hey, I can put 40 clients into your community or your your online courses, that would be different, wouldn’t it? Because that’s scalable. That’s hands off, from my perspective. So I could theoretically take 40,000 people into my online courses, because that’s something that happens without my input. But where the business and the fulfilment of that business requires human input? That’s a completely different equation, David, it is. That’s where the differences,
David Ralph [23:18]
I had a conversation, I’ve got a shop, I’ve got an offline business, which is a kind of passion project away from the online stuff that I do. And I was in here the other day, and a guy came in and I said, Can I help you? Because I was just standing behind the counter making sure the staff were doing what they were doing. And he said, Oh, yes, I’ve come to pick up some stuff. And then he said, I tell you what you should do, you should start a delivery service. And I said to him, why would we do a delivery service? He said, because it makes it easier for customers? And I said, Yeah, but you’ve come here and you’ve picked it up, I would then have to pay for another staff member to not be in the shop, I’d have to pay for fuel, I’d have to pay for all this. At the moment. You come and pick the stuff up. And it’s job done. Why would I have another, you know, a member of staff? And he said, Well, it just makes it easier. And I thought yeah, that there’s certain decisions in business that you look at, and you think you’re absolutely right, it would make it easier for you. And it probably would increase sales. But then if I’m spending a vast amount of my profits to just get those sales coming in, what’s the point? And that’s one of the things that you’ve got to look at with growth, but you’ve got to look at that sustainability. You’ve got to think, okay, will this actually put a strain on the resources and the capacity of your business affecting the long term sustainability of your business? Are people going to suffer because suddenly, I’ve got a member of staff off sick, which means that the other person then has to be a delivery person, you know, you’ve got to think these things through is not just a quick fix, is it common?
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [24:52]
It’s not and this is where those had headaches come in. Because then like in that ecommerce example, I would, I employed somebody who worked In the store, I employed them in my side hustle. And now all of a sudden, I’ve rather than just filling my pocket with money each week for a bit of extra work. Now I’ve got outgoings I’ve got commitments to staff and you’ve got all of these, these headaches that just add to the burden. And I think it’s interesting it causes you to, to look at what what you actually want out of this, what do you want out of this business. And when we, when we look at that, honestly, we’re able to make those decisions, like Oprah said, from that, that place of stillness, to know, well, this is what I actually want, and be, be comfortable then with what you don’t want. Because what you don’t want is just as important as what you want. And chasing after that, though that growth for growth’s sake, it’s going to cause potentially more headaches and put you in a place that you don’t want to be. And when you were sharing there, David, I was reminded of that, that, that saying that story, and I’ll probably get it all wrong, but I’ll share what I what how I remember it. And there’s a guy is on holiday, and he’s on the beach, and there’s a little fishing boat, and a guy’s barbecuing, stuff on the beach with his family playing with his kids, a fisherman and the guy walks up. He’s a like, you know, a commercial like businessman and he comes up and he says, hey, it’s only 12 noon, what are you doing sat on the beach with your family, you’re fishing boats there, there’s loads of fish in the harbour, get out, go and do another stint. And then with that money, you can buy another fishing boat, you can employ more fishermen. And you can grow and grow and grow and grow and grow and grow. And you can get all of this distribution and all of this. And he’s like, and he’s saying, Well, why would I want to do that? He says, Well, then, once when you’ve got all of that you can finish work early, and sit on the beach barbecue and with your family. Yeah, you know, so it’s like, I’ve probably got that completely wrong. But the moral of it is exactly this is this is universal, it’s really understanding what you what do you want out of this life, and your business is a means to you fulfilling that and really achieving that thing that you you’re here to do. And I think when you do it from that place, that’s that’s when it becomes a lot easier, a lot simpler.
David Ralph [27:14]
And what we have to do is put our big boy pants on, because what I don’t want through Join Up Dots is to say to anyone out there that every business hasn’t got pain, because it has, but you have to look at it at what life you want. And then of the bad things, what you’re willing to tolerate. And there’s certain things, you know, I can’t be asked to be doing tax returns and base and back. So I hire an accountant to do that. But I still have to get all the paperwork and everything organised to hand it over to him to be able to do but you know, I could put that out to someone, but then it’s messy. I’d rather sort of clean it myself. So there are certain things in business when you’re building growth. But you’ve got to say, Yeah, this takes me away from sitting on the beach drinking to Kivas at lunchtime, but I’m never gonna get back without the pain that this there’s got to be as an aircalin.
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [28:13]
Yeah, and this is this is just reaffirms what we’ve just said about what do you actually want. And I think when you get, get clear on what it is that you want, what that dream outcome where you sat on the beach, with your family looks like for you. It’s that drive and desire to achieve that, that keeps you putting one foot in front of the other, when the flaming arrows come, because let’s face it, life is Buddha says life all of life is suffering, right? And the sense of keeping moving forward regardless, is where our growth and our our true growth and success lies. I love that Frederick Nietzsche quote that I have it on my my inspiration board. And he says that he has a why to live can bear almost anyhow. And what that means is that if we are fixed and firm in what it is that we want, and the reason that we’re here, and that that sense of of, of what it is we’re looking to achieve, then when those flaming arrows come, we’re not going to turn away and run. We’re going to keep moving forward through the pain through the suffering whatever that looks like what however that situation is, and I think it’s really important. I think it’s really important.
David Ralph [29:31]
So let’s start summarising it because we’re, this is this is good. I liked this podcast episode, I would listen to it myself calling, but I’m with about on the side. We’ve already said personal development, okay, business growth will help you develop and become better and more able to sustain the ups and downs the roller coasters of building a business so we know that’s good. We also know that profitability is great thing, you know, increase growth can lead to higher revenue and profits, which then enhance your financial and your lifestyle well being. So that’s good. Now, as you mentioned, we can only do that really, if we understand what economies of scale salaries. And what I want to do. Now, I want to talk about how what you said resonated greatly, you couldn’t deal with 40 clients, but you could deal with 40,000 of them put into the right part of your business. And that is something that people really have to think about, isn’t it when they’re starting their business, planning out the different areas that will provide income stream, but lifestyle support, and other ones that you’ve got to do to be able to make that happen? I always see it as wine glasses that you pouring in, where there are certain things that you’ve got to pour into the first level to make the second level going. Let’s talk about that economies of scale, how did you structure your business so that you could deal with certain s elements, which means that the next level of wine glasses start to fill up naturally?
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [31:09]
Great question. And I think it’s really about, we don’t know that we don’t know, right? So we start this journey. And we have an idea of, oh, I can do this. And I can do that. And I can spend the day I can go to the gym in the day, right? Or I can go and walk the dog, I can do whatever I want with my business when it gets to here. And so it’s, it’s, it’s really, it’s really about giving your brain the picture of what’s possible, right? So looking at looking at what would 10 clients look like? What would 100 clients look like? What would 1000 clients look like? What would 100,000 clients look like? And actually playing with the idea of these things, to just expand your thinking. And what that does is it allows you then, to see where possibility lies, but also to see where scalability lies, as well. And so one of the things that I do with my clients that I do in my business is looking at, looking at the different ways that people can engage with you. And this is where their sense of creating those that scalability really lies. So having having hands off, have a hands off kind of services, that the way that you approach your services, for those that are new to this is in three areas. And if you think about it, like ascending, right, so when somebody has a problem that they want solving, there are three ways that they can fix that problem. The first is DIY, the second is DWI. And the third is def why. So they can do it themselves. In the first instance, this tends to be the cheapest method where they where you just learn and figure things out for yourself. The second approach is DWI, which is done with you. And that’s where you have somebody walk along with you, helping you through the process. So you might have a coach, you might have a mentor or a guide, somebody helping you. And then the final is done for you. So you write a check out and somebody does the thing for you, right? So a website is a great example of a done for you solution. Now, when it comes to organising your business, for scalability, the key in all of this is to look at that spectrum, and look at the problems that you solve for your clients. And then how do you map what it is that you do across that spectrum. Because if you’ve only got done for you services, if you’re a web developer, for example, and you only have the FY services, then you’re going to hit a bottleneck unless so you can handle let’s say you’re a solo web, let’s just play this idea out solo web developer, you can build one website a week. And that means you can handle four clients. If somebody was to say, here’s another 40 clients, things would fall down. So what you look at with that is yes, you could say, Hey, I’m going to employ another five web developers and I’m going to employ a team and do all of this, you can go down that route. But right now, today, if that doesn’t exist, it’s not a possibility for you. So the way that you achieve scalability is to look across the spectrum. So with a web developer, they would have maintenance plans, they would have website, SEO and monitoring and plugin updates and all of the joys of WordPress that I used to play with in a previous life. But having this spectrum of ways that people can can pay you money is the key to this. So the web developer might make a course for aspiring web developers how to make the best fastest web sites in WordPress, and have a community of aspiring web developers who want to learn how to become a web developer. So that community can have an infinite number of people in it. Those courses can have an infinite number of people buying them and they become those The Wi Fi and DIY approaches to his business. Now that was just an example that are just off the top of my head, right? But how can you think a little bit differently about what you do so that you incorporate the whole spectrum of what it is that you do? And then economies of scale come as the business grows, economies of scale means that if you’ve got more power, more buying power, more money in the pot, then you can, you can reduce your expenses, because you’ve got that buying power, you know, that power of of those economies of scale. But essentially, it’s about creating that breadth of offerings. Does that make sense? David,
David Ralph [35:40]
it makes total sense. And I’ll give you that round of applause for that, because that was straight off the bat straight off the top of your head and made perfect sense. And I was thinking about the DIY and the DFM, I thought one of them was going to be DF. A particularly do all if you understand what I’m saying, because some people get so caught up with it. But they actually don’t do anything at all. And they just kind of leave businesses sort of hanging where it is. Now, I think that I lean a lot personally, in my own business to do it myself. I love the learning. I love being curious. There’s something that I’m building at the moment that I could easily pay for it, it’d be done by tomorrow, you know, but I like the thought of knowing because that’s a string to my bow to be able to then help somebody else you know. So there are times when doing it yourself is good. Because actually, in the long term, potential growth of your business, you’re gonna be out there to scale quicker, because you’ve got more knowledge. And that’s something that people have to think about, isn’t it? The slow, steady personal development actually, down the line becomes that catapult that can Trang you forward faster than you can imagine. Because you’ve done the work when people are not looking in your direction.
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [37:04]
Yeah, I love I love DFA, we we’ve definitely got to add that to the start of the spectrum, haven’t we? Ever DFA approach? Yeah. The, the reality here is that we have to pioneer this as the business owner as the the person in the driving seat, we have to do the work, we have to do the work of creating this. So even if we are bringing people in, let’s say we’re the web developer, and we’re bringing people in to develop websites, we need to do the work, we need to pioneer the standard operating procedures of how we build our websites of the process we go through. So we would have to do that in order to then train the other people that that come in to do the work. And so there’s an element of you. You just have to embrace and embody all of these different areas you have to know and understand how they work. Even if you are very fortunate enough to be able to sign that check and have somebody do it for you, then it doesn’t pay you any service if you if you don’t have an at least a rudimentary understanding. And I love that you mentioned the word curiosity, David, because that really is the key to all growth is having that curious, beginner’s mind? I love to have conversations with people and really, you know, humble myself to kind of go look, tell me like I’m six. Explain this to me. Like I’m six and I sometimes why my clients so because I’ll just be like saying, Well, what why is that? You know, and it’s not, I’m not trying to be antagonistic in that. I’m genuinely trying to understand because I have a, like an innate curiosity that leads me into some interesting conversations. And I think that’s key in all of this is having that, that drive to want to learn for yourself. And then it doesn’t mean that that becomes your life or your day or your job. But that then is the thing that allows you to systematise in the right way to create processes that work at scale. And that that’s what makes all the difference.
David Ralph [39:14]
I’m going to confess to you something Colin, that I’ve never confessed on a podcast episode before, but I’m actually by curious, I buy lots of things online just because I’m curious about how it works behind the scenes. And if it’s like a $50 thing or $60 Being stuff. I’m not even interested in the product, but I buy it because I then want to see how many emails come out whether they they get me excited, you know, all those kinds of emotional points. Because fat that is another string to my bow. So yeah, I’m bi curious. Are you bi curious as well coming?
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [39:51]
I am bi curious. So that made me laugh when you said that one. So I know that as the shiny object syndrome, you know, it’s like a Yeah, but like you I do do it under the guise of of curiosity of, I just love to see what emails follow this little offer that’s really hooked me in or this ad that piqued my interest on Facebook. Yeah, I am bi curious to I don’t mind admitting in public David.
David Ralph [40:16]
So if we look at the, you know the message that we’re having behind this email on this podcast, but growth is great. But when somebody says we can give you growth, you’ve got to really understand what the growth is right for your business. When you’re in a business, and you’re building it sometimes once again, you can’t see the wood for the trees, you. I was asked a question the other day about a website development. And I said, Well, how much is this going to cost? And the woman said to me, okay, what kind of things do you want going out what this then? And she asked questions, I’ve got here pretty good questions. So I answered them. And she said, Oh, and what about this? What about that? And I thought to myself, I’ve never seen that. Never seen that in a million years, until she actually started sort of asking me the right things to ask. So how can you ask the right things to yourself? When somebody is saying we can get you growth? How can you get clarity, Colin?
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [41:21]
I would suggest that the first thing is you get clarity on what you actually want. Because if you know what you want, you know, the job to be done. Right? Take that jobs to be done approach to things, if you know what it is that where you’re headed, what you’re trying to achieve, you know, I want to close shop at 12 o’clock and spend the rest of the day on the beach with my family. What does it take to get to that point? So what does it take in terms of your business model? We just talked about the different three now four modes of doing business. And what how many clients does it take at each level at what price and all of those things, and you’ve got a picture of what success looks like, in order for you to achieve those goals, it then becomes really easy, it really becomes a case of holding up this shiny object or this opportunity or this carrot that’s been dangled in front of you holding that up against where you’re going, where you’re headed. That why that driving force behind what you’re what you’re doing, holding this thing up and seeing if it’s aligned. So those 40 clients that you get in offered on LinkedIn, could I handle 40 clients? Could I handle 40 of this type of clients? Does it fit with where I’m headed? Does it fit with what I’m trying to achieve in my life in my business, and that becomes your, your yardstick by which you measure these opportunities. And then 80% 90% of those things will be a hard No, because it’s just not in keeping with. You’ve now got got this blinkered focus as to where you’re headed, where you’re going, what you’re achieving, for you, for your family, for your business. And so these things can then just flash by, because for the smoke and mirrors that they are most of the time anyway, they can just flash by, but some of them will come in and you’ll go BB BB the radar go off, and it’s like, oh, that’s actually that might be a fit. So in that case, I’m going to invest my time and have a conversation. But always with that thing in mind of how will this help me to achieve what it is that I’m seeking to do?
David Ralph [43:24]
So it’s as simple as sort of joining up the dots, basically, you start off with the.of, what do I want my life to be like? And then turn them into sort of reverse engineering? What do I need to then get that first dot second dot, dot? And would that then give people a blueprint to follow? Or, once again, is it just going to be a blueprint that every now and again, you become Lewis Hamilton and it runs away with you?
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [43:54]
This journey is a roller coaster, we can’t escape that that’s the nature of this journey of life and of business. But you’re exactly right in what you say you do what Stephen Covey says and you start with the end in mind. So when we know what the end looks like, this is the dark this is the end dock that we’re heading towards. What do we need to do in order to achieve that end.so We need to do this dot this dot this dot and all of a sudden, we can draw a pathway between those days to love those.to dot puzzles, puzzles that are good. And you can begin to draw a pathway between that Now that’s not to say that your life will follow a perfect path because nobody’s does. You’re gonna go off to the left off to the right, you’re gonna get derailed, you’re gonna get smashed in the face, you’re gonna get beat down into the dirt. And that’s the thing where that Nietzsche quote really, like fuels me on my journey of you as a way to live can bear almost anyhow, because you stay fixated on that ended up you stay fixated on that end in mind. And when you fixated on that you’re always going to keep moving forward.
David Ralph [44:55]
So we look at it as a personal development we we look at the past There’s no lifestyle that we want, we also have to look at it as financial. And then we have to query whether it’s sustainable, that seems to me to be one of the themes that has run through this entire conversation. Yeah, grow your business, by all means, but look at it and think, Is this actually sustainable? am I actually going to cause more problems? And that’s when it’s great to reach out to a mentor who’s been there before, somebody that has seen those curves, that roller coaster, and can say to you, well, actually, I did what you’re talking about about four years ago, it might have been different vein than it is now. But I tell you what happened to me. And that really does sort of open your eyes, doesn’t it to a situation like, like, I speak to you a lot, it seems. And not enough, not enough coming, I would say, but I speak to you a lot. And even when we’re not talking about anything, I learned something, because it’s just that you’ve already been there, you’ve you’ve moved through certain things. And it’s just going to come out of you in all your natural stories.
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [46:07]
I think we’ve got to have a mindset of being accepting of those things and being open to learning and understanding. Because in every conversation, and we started our talk, talk today about being present in the moment and having that, that active 100% Focus on the thing that’s in front of you. And oftentimes, it’s an individual, it’s not a group of people. And I think having that openness, to hear what other people have to say, and to really actively seek to understand is the thing that opens the doors. Because no matter where we are in our journey, there are always people that are a few steps behind. And there are always people that are a few steps ahead. And so it, it’s really powerful for us to be open to hearing from those that are a few steps ahead. Because they can say, hey, you’ve got a really sharp bend coming up. So you know, we have more of a chance of hitting the Bret, we’re still going to hit the bend, we’re still going to have to do a really tight turn, we’re still going to screech around the corner, but we have a better chance of not going off the cliff. You know, and I think it’s it’s that mindset of openness to learning and understanding comes back to that beautiful word curiosity again, David, I think if we can culminate that, that cultivate that beginner’s mind, in everything we do standards in such good stead,
David Ralph [47:32]
I love that. There’s Ringo Starr, the drummer from The Beatles. He says there’s no such thing as a bad drummer. It’s just drummers that have started earlier than you. So if you’re there, just go Don’t, don’t don’t that’s exactly as Ringo was when he started, you know, and the fact that those dots are then all around us, and you can look at what he’s doing now. And you can look at what somebody’s doing behind you. But in business more often than not, I think that people don’t look behind them. You know, I always say at the end, and I’m going to say again, I believe that by joining up those dots and connecting our pasts is the best way to build our futures. You know, there are times when we should stop, and we should look at people just starting. But of course, we generally don’t want to do that. We want to look at the sexy stuff ahead of us. We want to look where Colin Scotland is we want to look at what’s happening in that direction. But the gold really is looking at the starters and thinking Christ, I’ve come a long way. And let’s assess, is this going in the right direction?
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [48:38]
Definitely, there is such opportunity, if we can only stop and look around. We all too often get fixated on what we’ve not done, what we haven’t achieved yet. And where we’re headed, like you say where we’re going, what the next.is. But it’s really important anchorage this in my mastermind circles is to, to just stop and take a moment and look back at those dots that have happened for you over the last weeks and months. And just have a bit of gratitude for
David Ralph [49:07]
where you are do now. Or do they just roll their eyes and think okay, Colin, I’ve got so much on my plate, I’ve got so much I want to do. I’m not going to do that.
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [49:17]
So often, like people will say to me, Hey, oh, they come in with this. Oh, you know, this has happened. And that has happened. And I got three new clients and that and I’m like, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop there, stop there. So you know, you’re coming in with this energy of what hasn’t happened and what you haven’t done and where you’ve not made made achievements and advancements. And then you just glossed over the fact that you’ve signed three new clients. So three weeks ago, your business was about to fold because you didn’t have clients. You’ve just signed three clients. So I encourage them to pause at that point to reflect and celebrate because we celebrate that dot that has preceded where they are today and okay today they’re derailed a little bit but when you Get into that energy of gratitude. Joe Dispenza says attitude is the energy of receivership. So when we get into that energy of gratitude, all of a sudden, we become more aware of the relative position of where we are today. And more able to take that step forward, even if it’s a step back onto the path that we’ve just fallen off of. So let’s kind
David Ralph [50:23]
of bring the conversation to a natural conclusion, because otherwise we go on for three hours, I think on this. So I started this conversation reaching out to you because I was just annoyed by people’s drive for growth, growth, growth. And I was sitting there with my hands behind my head one day thinking, I’m alright, I don’t need this, what’s the point? But I’ve come to a conclusion now. But at certain parts of the journey, growth is amazing. And other times, it’s bad. So where would you go? On the on the spectrum? Are you bang in the middle that says no, actually, I think is growth is good and growth is bad, you just got to know the right growth? Or are you leaning towards either way?
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [51:16]
Think I would lean towards the growth is good side. But it has to be tempered with the right kind of growth, David 100%, because growth for growth’s sake doesn’t do anybody any good growth for growth’s sake is the the opposite of good. And so growth, when it leads you further along towards that dark, that end goal that we spoke about, then it benefits good. When it’s growth, for the sake of it for the wrong reasons, and it’s just leading you away, then, then it’s not good, then it’s not good. But then, you know, everything that happens to us in this life is an opportunity for growth, I think that’s the way to look at this. It’s anti growth is often growth just in a different guise.
David Ralph [52:06]
Oh, that’s good, isn’t it? Anti growth is it’s like, it’s like Little Red Riding Hood, creeping through the woods, pretending it’s the nine. But actually, it’s just the wolf.
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [52:19]
Exactly, or the opposite of that. Right. So it’s the wolf, but then it’s the man inside, you know. So it’s just the way that you frame it that way that you look at it that way. And just challenging yourself to shift that perspective.
David Ralph [52:32]
Back question, question question. And if you’re out there, and you’re growing your business, and you get somebody on LinkedIn, or whatever, send you an unsolicited request that they came, they can provide growth to your business, you can now go back to them and say, Oh, that’s interesting. I always look at growth from both sides. What type of growth are you offering? And see what kind of growth they come back with? Because I go and see, well, I can’t guarantee you, that’d be a stupid thing to say. But I would assume that genuinely, you won’t hear anything again.
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [53:09]
David Ralph [53:10]
It was good when they call in. It’s like, I know what I’m talking about. But only I only got there by your wisdom and your your friendships. So. So Colin, for people out there who have been listening to you, not just on this episode, but the other two episodes, what’s the best way that they can connect with you?
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [53:29]
Super simple, just head over to Colin scotland.com/connect. Everything’s on there.
David Ralph [53:36]
And we’re had the links on the show notes. So Colin, thank you so much for spending time with us today, joining up those dots and talking about growth and anti growth. And, once again, please come back again, when you’ve got more dots to join up. Because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Colin, thank you so much.
Growth Expert Colin Scotland [53:56]
Thank you, David. Absolute pleasure, loved our conversation.
David Ralph [54:02]
So are you struggling with growth in your business? Are you wanting to create more, more and more and not realising what you’re actually aiming for? Really, really good episode, I think that because growth is good, but growth is bad as well. And if you suddenly are aiming for more and more, but it’s going to cause more personal workload and overwhelm and lack of focus and maybe risk to your business and your your health. But of course, it’s not a good thing, but controlled growth. Understanding what you’re aiming for, is very, very powerful event can create a better lifestyle for you. So don’t just be seduced by more and more and more. Ask yourself all the time. Is this going to take me more away from what I’m aiming for? Or is it actually a stepping stone forward and make those decisions at each time? Until next time, thank you for calling. Joining us on the show. And thank you forever anybody else who’s been listening and connecting with us, and we will see you again soon. Cheers. See ya. Bye bye.
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