Jared Angaza Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast
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Introducing Jared Angaza
Jared Angaza is our guest today on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots free podcast interview.
He is a man who when you look at his history you think…well where do we start?
He has developed brands across East Africa, the United Kingdom, and the United States.
He liberated 49 Rwanda women from the clutches of sex slavery and trained them for work in various careers across Rwanda that afforded them income, safety and a path to dignity.
He has worked diligently to promote gender, racial and economic equality, developing an ethical fashion label and even wrote a bill on women’s rights in Rwanda that passed through Parliament and had become a law.
How The Dots Joined Up For Jared
Whilst in Kenya, he founded and operated a Creative Agency that has now developed some of Kenya’s most influential brands.
None of this slog slog slog business, but instead a focus on experiencing a world of abundance, beauty and soul replenish wonder.
His travels include twelve years of exploring from coast to coast in the United States, a decade living and working full time in East Africa and almost two years soaking in the pure life of Costa Rica, and now he resides in Nashville, TN with his wife and three of their four children.
So has he always been a person who is on a mission to experience the wonders of offer, or was it because of the horrors seen in Africa?
And does he see the world living a life over-complicated, in ways that it just doesn’t have to be?
Well lets find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr Jared Aganza
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Jared Angaza such as:
Why the ability to be vulnerable in ones life is so powerful, and should be used as much as possible when operating in the online world.
Why being an activist was a vocation where Jared struggled to balance the mission with the need to pay the bills, and in todays episode he shares the steps he took to overcome this.
Why work life balance is so important in life, although Jared works towards loving the work so that its just all life.
Why we should celebrate the belief that the dreamers of the world have instead of trying to make them grow up and accept the status quo.
How he fell into alcoholism and landed on the streets, before finding his calling and building the life that he deserved.
Jared Angaza Books
How To Connect With Jared Angaza
You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here – enjoy
Full Transcription Of Jared Angaza Interview
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:34]
Yes. Good morning. Good morning, everybody. This is Join Up Dots. This is David Ralph. And this is Episode 626. of the top two ranked podcast, not as good I tell you what, I’ve got a guest on the show today. And one of the things you don’t say to another podcast is is that he’s surrounded by podcasting, legends that are doing better than me, but that’s what he did. That’s what he did. He started off so I’m feeling slightly on edge now but he’s gonna be judging All the way through, I’m sure it’s gonna be all right because he’s a man who is is totally relaxed, he’s comfortable in his skin. And he’s a man as opposed to when we look at the history of him. You think, Well, where do we start, he’s developed brands across East Africa, the United Kingdom In the United States. He liberated 49 real random women from the clutches of sex slavery and train them for work in various careers across Rwanda, that afforded them income, safety and a path to dignity. He’s worked diligently to promote gender, racial and economic equality developing an ethical fashion label. And He even wrote a bill on women’s rights in Rwanda that passed through Parliament and had become a law. Now whilst in Kenya he founded and operated a creative agency that has now developed some of Kenya’s most influential brands. And those aren’t even the highlights of this remarkable man’s life as he truly believes that we are all extraordinary beings created to thrive through deep relationships, nature, spirituality and creativity. None of this slog slog slog business, but instead Focusing on experiencing a world of abundance beauty and so replenishing wonder. his travels include 12 years of exploring from coast to coast in the United States a decade living and working full time in East Africa, and almost two years soaking into pure life of Costa Rica. Now he resides in Nashville, Tennessee with his wife and three of their four children. So has he always been a person who is on a mission to experience the wonders of life? And the sort of wonders that are just on offer for all of us if we look in the right direction? Or was it because of the Horace seen in Africa? And does he see the world living a life of over complication in ways that he just doesn’t have to be? Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr Jared Anganza. Good morning, sir. How are you?
Jared Angaza [2:49]
I’m doing well. Thank you for that excellent introduction.
David Ralph [2:53]
I was all over the shop so I was all over the shop. I was talking to you. I couldn’t I couldn’t see what I was talking about. My buttons. I was clicking patterns that weren’t working but I think I pulled it off I think can they remained looking professional? I might not be the top podcaster but your brother is but I think I did an ALRIGHT job.
Jared Angaza [3:12]
It was superb.
David Ralph [3:15]
You’re not gonna be pushed into it, Jared, you’re not gonna be pushed into me, to me trying to rile you about your podcasting legacies.
Jared Angaza [3:24]
You know, interestingly enough, following in the footsteps of my legendary kin in terms of podcasting, I just am launching my own and recorded the first one yesterday so I’m just waiting into the waters to hopefully get to seven levels, people like yourself.
David Ralph [3:41]
It is exciting times, isn’t it? But we can do this kind of stuff. I talked about this a lot on Join Up Dots, but I think it’s, you know, it is the point that needs to come back time and time again. You are creating your own radio show. How much does it cost you maybe $150 something like that for a nice microphone. But The entry point is so small now, but literally, I would think the world could try stuff. They don’t actually have to wait until all the dots have lined up, they can try stuff and see if I like it.
Jared Angaza [4:11]
That’s the beauty of technology, man. I mean, when I moved to her Wanda years and years ago, about 12 years ago, Skype was new. And so even just communication back and forth between the continents was extremely difficult. We were very cut off. And now we live in an age where you can start your own podcast in about 10 minutes with 150 bucks or whatever. And you can communicate back and forth all over the world via video from your phone and blah, blah, blah. It’s beautiful. I love that we can create so freely these days.
David Ralph [4:43]
One of the problems is so we can no longer say no, that’s all right. I’ve been up for ages. Because more often than not people can see that you’ve just got out of bed and stuff. It’s there. There’s visual connectivity, which probably stops a lot of people phoning up their boss and say Can’t come in today I’m ill because actually, you know, you can connect, you can just connect perfectly.
Jared Angaza [5:06]
One thing I think the top thing, one of the top things that the internet has afforded us is transparency for good or bad, all the way around the block, you get the yin and yang when you get anything going, I guess. And we get lots of crazy coming from the internet. But we also get a lot of amazing connectivity. And I’m grateful as an activist, certainly for the transparency that it affords us.
David Ralph [5:27]
I think you’re right. And that is one of the things that I have noticed literally over the last year and a half. When I started the show three years ago, I used to go over to sort of about pages to look for the introduction material, and there wasn’t a lot of sexy stuff. It was all very much. I do this. I do that very bland, but now you go across to most websites and you see some terrible stories of paleo and struggle but it’s kind of real people have realised but business on the internet It isn’t about a website to website, it’s people to people, and they’re embracing the army. That’s why we’re all on Facebook Live, we’re all putting our best foot forward. And we’re showing yourselves in ways that we couldn’t have done before. It’s just transparency that you talk about.
Jared Angaza [6:13]
Yeah, and I think a lot of what that that transparency has caused us I guess, is a need or desire for and on the on the audience side, and then on the, you know, the creator side, a tendency to lean more towards authenticity, because people want it, people crave it, people know that they can get it, because there’s so much of it, so many people out there in the game. They’re going to go with the people that are more authentic, they’re going to go with the people that are really sharing their own stories that are vulnerable. vulnerability is a big word these days, thanks to Bernie brown and some of the people like that, getting that discussion out there. And I think the more vulnerable people are, the more real people are, the more authentic they are, the more they’re Going to attract a real audience.
David Ralph [7:02]
Well, what do you think it has changed because I grew up in the 70s. And if I went to the cinema, it was Superman. It was Spider Man. And then it was Indiana Jones and James Bond and it was these guys that just couldn’t be stopped. Literally whatever you threw at them, it bounced back. But now we we are vulnerable. As you say, we’re showing a totally different side to our character. Why do you think it’s changed over the last 20 years or so?
Jared Angaza [7:28]
Well, I think that with more conversation available to us, I mean, we’re not sitting in a log cabin out on the plains anymore, just kind of talking to the sky. We have more conversations going. And we have, you know, just constant connectivity. And because of that, I think that there, it’s kind of it’s created a dynamic where people feel more comfortable sharing, they feel like it’s desired more they feel like it’s going to be accepted more because it’s when things become a trend. You know, they become more accepted, and people feel more comfortable in that space. And I think that people are feeling more and more comfortable in the space of authenticity and transparency and being real. And they’re also, I think, on the other side, too. There’s, there’s sort of a disdain for what you described earlier, where you go to a website, and it’s just I do this, I do that it’s a, you know, it’s your regular CV. And who cares, right? When people want an outfit, they’d rather hear a cool story about how you got here, how you connected the dots, then, which is why your show it does so well. Then to hear you know, this is my resume. This is my CV, and this is what I do. This is what I’m capable of hire me. Who cares, really. And I think those sites, the people that are just doing that the people that are just putting that, that kind of information out there are missing the big, they’re, they’re out of the game. They’re not going to be able to have a right to the conversation. I think
David Ralph [8:54]
they used to be a song in the 80s and I heard it again the other day and it used to go I don’t know if you know it you go It’s not what to do with the way but you do it. It’s not what you do with the time that you do it. And I was thinking to myself when I was listening to that, I was thinking, yeah, that’s absolutely true nowadays, it’s not what you do is the way but you do it. People want, want to feel relaxed, they want you to be comfortable. They want all those things and we’ve yourself because you sound very relaxed. You sound very him in your skin in your moment. Have you always been that you’ve been very aware of? It’s not what you do. It’s the way that you do it.
Unknown Speaker [9:30]
Jared Angaza [9:32]
I was raised in a very entrepreneurial family. My father is an author and podcaster and speaker and so on and so on. And we were raised, you know, he speaks a lot. I’m sitting here looking at one of his books actually 48 days to the work you love. And it’s a New York Times bestseller and so on. And he’s always talked about following dreams following your passion, and about, you know, being authentic and being real and storytelling and so on. So, I yeah, I mean, I did grow up in an atmosphere that was conducive for that kind of thinking and for, you know, following my dreams and not just settling for mediocrity and so on. So yeah, I feel very fortunate for that. And I’ve always kind of believed you know, if you can dream it up, you can you can figure out how to get there with enough determination and so on. And now that I am a little bit older and wiser I also know that has a lot to do with our thoughts and what we think and what we believe in that comes from a perspective level. That’s the foundation of everything we do. It’s where we get our worldview. It’s fueled by our experiences, which is why I’ve spent a lot of time travelling all over the world kind of building that perspective bank so that I have a very broad worldview and consequently it makes me pretty confident about things and it makes me it you know that when you have that vast worldview perspective, and you you have you know, the Carl Sagan kind of pale blue dot scenario in your head in that we are just a little speck in this Cosmos to trivial things of life just don’t really matter that much. I don’t get too tied up in the little things.
David Ralph [11:07]
But but growing up and we were saving named Dan Miller now there’s gonna be some people that know damn it and some people don’t I think more often than not the podcasting fraternity will know him. And he’s done it. He’s done great stuff. Now what we see when siblings and kids sort of grow up in an environment where their parents are doing very, very well for themselves, more often than not, they kind of go off the rails they try to rebel against it. Did you ever feel that growing up that you last thing you wanted to do would be doing what you’re doing now although it’s quite right for you.
Jared Angaza [11:40]
I definitely understand the dynamic that you’re discussing. Absolutely. However, in my family, and again, I consider myself very fortunate to have experienced this growing up and still By the way, but it we didn’t have like for instance, we we were BMX racers, bicycle motocross dirt track, I think spent most of my time in the air on two wheels as a kid for about 12 years. In that bike racing scenario, my father raised my brother raised, I raised, we were all number one in our categories for years on end, it was a huge thing. And you would think, Wow, that’s a performance driven family and your father must be cracking the whip and blah, blah, blah. That wasn’t the case at all. He always said, Hey, do it because you love it, and go out and give your best. And if you give your best you win doesn’t matter what place you get. And I think that that philosophy, that belief in that that way about him, transferred over into every other aspect of life as well. And that was that was true a vocation and so on. I mean, even
David Ralph [12:43]
just to kind of jump in there. Did you really believe that as a kid? Because I remember when I was a kid, you know, people used to say, it’s the taking part that counts. I wanted a medal. I wanted a medal that all counts. Yeah. So did you go Yeah, all right, dad. I know you’re saying that but actually, I’m gonna I’m gonna try it. Let guys tie us down so I can I can win I need to win.
Jared Angaza [13:04]
Well, as a kid, of course, I wanted to win. And I did. Thank God. But I, I don’t know I yes, I definitely did have that feeling of, Hey, man, I just want to win. Yeah. And obviously I think that fueled me to winning. I mean, it. We we certainly had a, you know, a competitive spirit. And we certainly were always working towards winning that is for sure. We worked so hard. We practice and practice and practice. But I think that the the good takeaway from it is that it was fun. Dad made it fun. And winning is fun.
David Ralph [13:36]
I like winning and I be on it. Apparently, I’ve won anything in my life. I can honestly not think that I’ve ever stood on a podium that I have won. Oh, I won some vague training award once and it was only because I had been doing it longer than anybody else. You know, when you get to a point and it’s the kind of, you know, the legends award that they just give it to Because I look around and think he’s never won anything we better give him something Yeah, I think I I want it because of that, but I haven’t won anything else do what do I need awards? Or can I gain that that adulation from within Jared?
Jared Angaza [14:15]
Oh, now there’s a deeper question and that’s certainly one I’m equipped to answer. I spend a lot of time in that realm at this point. Oh, yeah. I mean, I I think that it’s it is the the doing it with joy that where we find our joy as well that that’s the it’s kind of that circulating effort there itself perpetuates. When we’re enjoying what we’re doing and we love what we weren’t what we’re doing, you know, it’s that find a job you love and never work another day in your life kind of thing. When we live that way. Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s joyful. It’s exciting. It’s fun. And yeah, I don’t know. I think it all ties together.
David Ralph [14:55]
So you would be one of these people that buy into the fact you know, if you find yourself Passion, find your passion and the money will just come to you. Because it always seems very simplistic until you actually get into it. This is the first thing that I’ve ever done. Where a passion led me through maybe six or seven months of not getting paid up to this point, it was always a case of Why the hell would I do that if I’m not getting paid for it and Join Up Dots was the first thing ever that I pushed through. And I can now see the truth in those words, but when you’re in corporate land and you hear those she literally you want to grab the person and smack them in the face down here because it’s it’s difficult to see the truth in truth in them. Oh, man,
Jared Angaza [15:35]
yes, I’ve been there. And you know, I can sit here and preach a good sermon about you know, your thoughts and your and finding joy in everything that you do, no matter if you’re winning, no matter if you’re making money, no matter you know, all that kind of stuff. And I believe that fundamentally, but at the same time, if you can’t put food on the table sucks. I mean, it’s and speaking again, as an activist as a as an activist for 20 years, activism doesn’t pay very well, because most people or a lot of people, especially the guys, shelling out the cash are not real excited about what I’m saying. Yeah, so I’ve spent a lot of time on the other side of thinking, Well, I’m following my passion, I’m doing what I love, I, you know, I’m living with purpose, and so on and so on. And I can’t keep the lights on. So that sucks. So, you know, over the years, I had to find ways to balance that and to figure out, Okay, how do I make a living, doing what I’m doing? How do I make a vocation, a craft, you know, so that is something that I love, but also, you know, puts money in the bank. And I think it’s important to figure that out. Otherwise, you know, it’s really hard to be joyful when you’re, you know, slumming it, when you can’t pay the bills and so on. So, I yeah, I mean, I’ve had since then, by the way, I’ve moved from just being an activist to being an activist, that takes that philosophy into other career. elements that pay, you know, when I did the creative agency, you know, I was still doing I still very much following my passion. But you know, as a brand developer now, I’m very much following my passion in trying to create a more peaceful and harmonious world, but I’m doing it through business in a way that pays me as a consultant to help other organisations learn how to create a brand that also contributes to a more harmonious, you know, peaceful world. So yeah, I mean, it’s not just, you know, sit around and think it and money will fall in your lap. That’d be great. But I haven’t seen that happen very often.
David Ralph [17:32]
So So have you been at the point where literally you were on coupons and you know, they were knocking on your door to take your furniture away, or has it never got that bad?
Jared Angaza [17:43]
Well, I’m not much of a consumer and I’m not much I never even had a credit card until I was like 30. So I and that was only after I got married. But I yeah, I have been men. You want to have it here. Let’s get authentic. Hi. During my late teens, early 20s, I was an outrageous alcoholic and and had a does another podcast on that if you want to get into that, but I went through 12 years of in I mean, like Keith Richards shaming, alcoholism. I mean, I was I was in it to win it or lose it as it may be. But I went through this very difficult time, all the while as an activist, and I was pissed off, I was looking at the state of the world and I was raised in the the rage against the machine era. And I was angry and I and consequently, you know, that fueled alcoholism and so on. And then I ended up on the street man, I lived on ban for almost two years on and off. I lived on the streets for a bit and then kind of got myself cleaned up and did some other business ventures. started a private equity firm with another guy and we were investing in small businesses and so I’m I got more and more involved and Africa, this was in 2005. Right after Hurricane Katrina, I had done relief work here and blah, blah, blah, had a crazy experience down there in Louisiana. And then I said, I’m going to Africa. I’m just going to go I’m tired of seeing some of the stuff here. I just I need a change of scenery. I’ve been working on Africa project for a long time. I went there as an activist with no plan, no cash, no nothing. And I landed on the ground there. And for the first two, three years, man, we had times we meeting my myself and my housemate and another guy here from from the south. And we, we had times when we literally wouldn’t eat for two or three days, nothing. And, I mean, we talked about poverty, there wasn’t any furniture for anybody to come take away. We literally had a two bedroom house with no furniture except for two beds. For five years. I had no refrigerator, no stove, no nothing. But I was living with purpose I was living with, you know, I was following a dream and I was helping people and I did it and I got through it would I do that again? Hell no. But
Unknown Speaker [20:02]
Unknown Speaker [20:02]
what stopped you?
David Ralph [20:04]
But what stopped you phoning up your dad and say, ah, why would you quit across?
Jared Angaza [20:11]
Wasn’t me man. I like it. I don’t know, I like I was always pretty self sufficient. And I don’t I mean to some degree during that time too, I kind of had that. There’s a tendency, this is another little discussion point, there’s a tendency in the activism world, you know, as a humanitarian or whatever, to kind of martyr yourself, you know, the more I suffer, the more good I’m doing the world, which is ridiculous, by the way. I know that now. But back then I thought, Oh, you know, I’m suffering for for humanity and whatever. And it’s all good. It’s part of the deal. Now, I understand. It doesn’t have to be part of the deal. And in fact, if I have a decent bank account, and I can move freely about the world because of my financial freedom, I can do a hell of a lot more than what I could have done when I was sitting in the house without, you know, trying to figure out what I was going to eat in the next couple of days.
David Ralph [20:59]
I was watching An interview with The Beatles the other day, and it was on YouTube. And it was about, I don’t know, a year after the Beatles started. And they said to john lennon, you know, how has things changed in your life? And he went, I can sit on a better cushion. Now when we write songs, it’s more comfortable. And I said, No, there must be more than that. He said, No, he said, it’s not. It may look different from us. You know, you’re looking to us, but actually, our life hasn’t changed at all. We’re still the same. We still walk around we still sit on the toilet, we still write songs. Nothing’s changed at all. And it is weird where you’re chasing the but the dream the money, the bank account, but actually when you get it, you realise it’s the simple things around you all the time, but the most important thing
Jared Angaza [21:44]
Absolutely. And I think I went through life kind of upside down.
anyone that knows me very well would laugh at that thinking how correct that is. But I I went through life with following my purpose, following my dreams, doing things with passion. saying, Okay, I’m going to live a life of purpose, I’m going to save the world, you know, that kind of mentality. And I had these amazing experiences all over the world, some, you know, purely tragic, some absolutely extraordinary and beautiful. And that’s fueled my perspective and so on. And yeah, I’m grateful for all of those experiences, and I’m grateful for what that’s afforded me. And I’m grateful, but I now have, you know, studied and I’ve learned a lot and now I have the ability to look at things a little bit differently and to to learn how to kind of thrive in this way with purpose and with also the understanding that if I have money in the bank, if I’m doing something that’s also creating income, I’m a freer person, and I, you know, I have that creative space. You know, when you’re hustling all the time, it’s difficult to have the creative space to create something wonderful. So I’ve learned that as well. So there is a balance there for sure. And I think that maybe you Part of my journey is figuring out balance, which is a toughy
David Ralph [23:04]
is a tough day, I’m going to play some words. And then we’re going to come back to that because that is a key stage. But we all have to go through finding the balance is Jim Carrey,
Jim Carrey [23:12]
My father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.
David Ralph [23:39]
Now, that obviously ties up very nicely to what we’ve been talking about leading up to this point, but the word balance now people say to me, or I used to say, Oh, you need work life balance. And I used to think that’s right I do I need to go to work. And then I need to be equally balanced with life. But now I’m at a point where work in life but clean did the same thing. I’m on the seesaw. But I’m kind of balanced in the middle where I get paid for doing the stuff that I would be doing anyway, the kind of hobby job now, is that what people need to understand that they can actually get onto that seesaw and not have to be juggling work and life, but create something that ties up nicely in you. You’re basically not balancing you’re just living.
Jared Angaza [24:24]
Yes, I mean, I think that there is a, there’s a scenario where we can do okay, for instance, I think it was, was Martin Luther King said, you know, if you’re going to be a sweet street sweeper, you know, do it with joy be the best street sweeper out there and so on that he said something more eloquent than that. I’m paraphrasing but I feel like you know, anything that we do if you are for instance, a sweet street sweeper or a gas station attendant or whatever, you know, do it with joy, you know how it is when you pull up the petrol station or whatever, and in some guy comes out and helps you that works there and he’s just bubbling up with joy, and whatever you want. Like how on earth could
Why is this guy so happy about this? This I tell
David Ralph [25:04]
you what, Jeremy that doesn’t have any United Kingdom we don’t get people coming out and helping us freezing cold rain lashing down on us we’re putting our own fuel in. We don’t have people. We don’t have servants at petrol stations.
Jared Angaza [25:19]
Perhaps I’m speaking a little bit from my cultural experience in the United States. But they’re, you know, there are people that that do these things with joy, and you’re like, How on earth could they do it? And I think that there’s, there’s a beauty in that there’s like, Hey, I mean, if you whatever it is that you’re doing, doing, do it. Well. And you mentioned earlier, you know, it’s not exactly what you do necessarily. It’s, it’s how you do it. It’s the way you go about doing things which I’ve said probably a billion times in my branding, seminars and discussions with, with my teams and so on. And saying, Look, it’s the way we do things. It’s important to do it well as well, obviously, but in to do it with quality and excellence, but it’s Important how we do it, you know, there’s, there’s a quote that I use a lot from Maya Angelou, one of my favourite poets and writers. And she says, people will forget the things that you said, they will forget the things that you do. But they’ll always remember the way that you made them feel. And I think I mean, I can use that. And in branding and creating a brand, I can use that in a campaign, I can use that in relationships, and so on. It’s about kind of the feeling of things and the way that you experience it. I can, you can have an experience and I can have an experience. It’s exactly the same in terms of what happened, but we can experience it internally very differently. I can be really excited about it, and you can think it’s absolute crap. But it’s, it’s the same thing that happened, but it’s we experience it differently because we choose to.
David Ralph [26:48]
And then that’s the thing about the vulnerability, isn’t it? That’s why when you go over to websites and what you read, it’s it’s touching on the emotion. It’s the feeling, isn’t it?
Jared Angaza [26:58]
Absolutely. And I think that I mean, our economic system doesn’t give too much credence to feelings and things like that we know that however humans do, and that’s what I care about most. So I think that also with what we were talking about earlier with the proliferation of information and transparency and so on, that’s come through the internet. That’s more and more real every day because people are they kind of crave that authenticity and they realise that we have a choice, they realise that, you know, I can go to work and in work in a cubicle and feel like the guys in the office, or I can do that and do it with joy, and I can come home and be joyful with my family and so on. And maybe I go down to the soup kitchen, maybe I do something, you know, benevolent in that way or whatever. And I get my purpose more from that. And I think we can do that. And that’s kind of that life work life balance. I guess, too. I’m not a huge fan of the whole work life balance thing because I think if you do something that you love, you know, it’s different. I think what that really means for me is don’t work 18 hours a day.
David Ralph [28:00]
Yeah, and don’t just work for the weekend so that you can have two days going to the grocery store and mowing the lawn so that you can go back and do it again. I am a great believer now I’m not quite to that point. But I’m very close, almost spitting distance of doing the classic mini retirements where you can actually take time off. When I started Join Up Dots. It was 20 hours a day. And I talked about this a lot. It was a killer. It absolutely was a killer, and I aged overnight, and then little by little you build up momentum and you don’t have to look for guests, guests come to you and the audience bigger goes up, it just becomes a bit easier. And now I’m at the point where literally once I’ve finished off today, I’m recorded to about December the 15th, something like that. So I could I could just switch off and go for a month away. And that’s got to be the right way of doing it isn’t it that you work really hard and then recharge yourself and then you come back because we do that with our mobile phones. We do that with our sofas. That’s all you press a button and the legs come up. We think, Oh, it’s going a bit flat or charging up and then it’d be good again, but with our bodies, we just keep on going, going, going, going. And you must have seen that hugely in Africa where literally, it’s not just hustle, but in a lot of ways, it’s survival and it’s a totally different thing.
Jared Angaza [29:16]
Absolutely men, recharging who, especially, you know, as we get older is very important. But I have realised, man, I again, as an activist, you know, I’m working for a purpose, I’m doing this thing that’s so important. I got to keep going, go and go and go and going. And having that mentality, you know, I did work 18 hour days, most of my life seven days a week, and I just worked and worked, work work. And I get to the point, especially like, when I was in Rwanda, and that stuff was going on, if things were intense, suffice it to say, that’s a whole other podcast worth of information, so holes, but I had felt I got burned out, I burned out over and over and over and over. And really, it’s been over the last like six years that I’ve gotten into a lot of you know, spiritual studies, and in to lots of other, you know, teachings that have helped me to figure out how to get through the burnout, and in fact, how to prevent it. And for me, it’s getting out in nature. I mean, we come from nature, and we’ve got to get out and do it. And I don’t just mean you know, going out and having a granola bar on a hike. But even just stepping outside every day, during the warmer months, I step out every day and put my bare feet on the ground and ground myself and say, Look, I’m part of this man, we’re all interconnected. And that does a lot. From my perspective, it does a lot for recharging the old batteries. And I’ve got to recharge the batteries. The more I do that I felt, you know, if I work, you know, 80 hours in a week, I found that I didn’t get as much actually, like the value and important things accomplished and the feelings that come along with that as
David Ralph [30:49]
hours. While you’re doing it, jumping in there, you’re convinced that you’re putting in the extra you’re gonna reap the rewards. You know, you can’t understand why if I do 80 hours, I’m not gonna get more quality work done been doing 40 hours, you just get trapped into it. Were you aware that you were at burnout? Because I have been through burnout doing this? And people were saying to me, David, you look terrible. And I just kind of ignored him. I just thought, oh, maybe I’m coming down with something, you know, I just plough through, I look back on it now. And I think, yeah, I should, I should have had a friend who basically locked my office and took the keys away. And that should have been my wife. That should have been my kids. That should have been somebody, but nobody did. But they all wound me. But I was looking terrible until I got to the point that I couldn’t do it. And I had to sort of reassess. Were you aware that you were going into burnout?
Jared Angaza [31:41]
Not initially, no. I mean, especially on the on the the front end of it, like the first times in my life when I was reaching burnout, you know, 10 years ago or so it was probably at its worst. And I yeah, I mean, I was up against it all the time. And again, as an activist, I had a really good excuse to just keep Doing it like oh, while I’m saving the world I got to keep going and, you know, burnout or not The world needs me. Like everything was gonna fall like the wheels are gonna fall off if I didn’t join in and save the day. But I know now that that’s not necessarily the case. And I also know now that I can be much more effective if I am recharging my batteries if I am taking time off and I’m creating space to be creative to to get myself aligned again with humanity and nature and you know, even spiritually and so on. And, and without that, I’m just, I’m just burning and burning and burning and burning and burning and nothing really great is coming of it and at the end of the day, I’m wiped out I can’t be very effective that way.
David Ralph [32:45]
So let’s give the listeners a flavour of what your life is like. So you’re in Nashville now is that right? You move from Costa Rica to Nashville. Indeed back to my hometown, my roots. Right? I love Nashville. I have spent Many happy times in Nashville, tootsies, wine bar. tootsies, orchid bar don’t get me babe again because I’ve had some hangovers like you wouldn’t believe in there but great nights as well. So how do you connect with yourself? So you don’t walk around Nashville with your shoes and socks off? Surely.
Jared Angaza [33:18]
I wouldn’t put it past me. But no, not typically. I okay, honestly, I live outside of Nashville now about four inches. I just got a farmhouse about two days ago. Incidentally, I don’t even have internet at the house yet. It’s being installed this morning in about 45 minutes. And so consequently, I had to travel almost an hour to my father’s office, actually, which is where I’m talking to you now, which means I got up at about 4am and came over here to my commitment to your show, man. Yeah, but I yeah, I don’t we don’t live in the city, man. We we live outside. We do our own thing. I homeschool our kids We do it our way very, very, very different than kind of the status quo. And I mean, I was terrified of moving back to Nashville. And the way that it happened was kind of crazy anyway, but I was just kind of, you know, following, following my bliss and following, you know, kind of what I felt drawn to. And after living out of the states for almost 1112 years, man, I, we ended up back here and I had this moment when we got here and I was like, Oh my god, I live in Nashville. I can’t I can’t do this. I’ve been vehemently opposed to being here and living in even in the states and living in Nashville and so on. And then I realised that it doesn’t really matter where I am. Geographically, I can live in my own world. My parents have always said I lived in my own world now I’ve embraced it. So I live in this. We we kind of live in our own little imaginary world on at our house and we do our own thing our friend group is small but like minded and very They’re also not followers of the status quo, not not happy with mediocrity, and we do our own thing. So it’s been, it’s been an interesting journey being back and we’ve been back like six months now. Feels feels like longer. But it’s also interesting too, because we’re not planning to move right now, or we just signed a year lease and we’re going to stay here for a while while we look to build a farm somewhere. So it’s, it’s just now not that I’m hitting that six month mark, when I would usually be rolling out again, somewhere else around the world, and realising, oh, we’re still here. We’re gonna stay here. So it’s a very new dynamic for even my wife and I who have never lived in kind of a stable situation like that. But we’ve learned to make our own world wherever we are.
David Ralph [35:41]
Well, yeah, that’s the key point. And I suppose that is what is the utopia that everybody’s looking for until it’s put in front of them. You know, I think, at their core, people like roots, they like to know where to grow. I grew up in the town. I’m talking to you now. And I grew up for 25 years. I moved away for about five years when I met my partner, and we moved back to the town. And I always say to people, it’s an amazing place to live. If you want to get to London quickly, or you want to have your hair cut, that’s basically the only thing that go on in my place and, and have an Indian takeaway. There’s there’s one of those on every corner aveline that there’s there’s nothing here really, but I still felt drawn to sort of come back. Is that not in you at all those roots? If I had to say right from now on, you’re going to stay somewhere for the rest of your life. Could you sort of like go Yeah, that’s where I want to go.
Jared Angaza [36:35]
Oh, I don’t know. I mean, I wouldn’t say that. I would say anywhere for the rest of my life. I’m a pretty transy guy, but a bit been a gypsy most of my life. But obviously, I mean, I felt some draw to come back here and it felt for the first time coming back this last time. Six months or so ago. It was the first time that it felt like oh, I’m coming home. I’m coming back to my roots. I’m coming back to this place. That You know, elements of that culture and that experience are part of me that I appreciate and that I want to kind of reconnect with and so on. As opposed to before when I would come here, you know, visiting from Africa, and I just it was, I was watching the clock to see when I was going to leave again. And now I do feel, you know, my parents are here. It’s great to be around them, especially since we’ve got, you know, little kiddos, and they want to be around grandma and grandpa. And so I’m, and my sister and her family and kids and all that stuff live here. So being around some old friends, being around family and so on. That’s been a huge draw. And then you know, and I recognise, it was interesting, showing my wife around this time because we’ve never really lived here before we just kind of been in and out. It’s always been a bit of a rush. Now we’re here and I’ve been taking her down to like the strip where you were talking about where it sits. He’s his 30s in the bluegrass, and Roberts Western wearing all the honky tonks. I grew up at those places from Thomas like 15 way younger not to be in a bar, but I was I would go to those places. And it was just like magic. That’s where Elvis played. That’s where Johnny Cash played. And now that I’m here at this stage in my life, for the first time, I really, really appreciate it. You know how it is that you’re growing up in a place and it’s like that, whatever. It’s just the place where I grew up. Now I’ve come back years later, I’m like, wow, this is pretty amazing place. And you know, and Nashville is an amazing place. I really appreciate it now probably more than ever, even though I decided also not to live in Nashville proper. It’s there for the taking when I want it. And that’s, I like that.
David Ralph [38:29]
So so in your day to day life, how have you defined How have you crossed that bridge of being an activist, struggling for five days to make money enough to eat to be able to create your own business? Was it something about you, you found the right idea and it grew around you? Was it something that you had to force through? How did you bridge that gap to actually being financially viable?
Jared Angaza [38:55]
I mean, it’s it’s a continual journey, for sure. But Over the years, especially over the last few years, and I think it’s sort of it sort of started when I created the creative agency in Nairobi, and I worked with a bunch of bigger brands. And I started working with USA ID quite a bit. And I worked with, you know, State Department and a bunch of bigger human rights agencies and things like that. And I figured out a way, like, at the end of the day, I was like, Well, I’m a, I’m an activist and I know psychology of I understand the psychology of people like why people do things that they do and how they’re programmed and so on, at least from a formulaic standpoint, and I, because of that, I thought, well, I know how to enter. I’ve been creating brands and stuff throughout my life to kind of pay the bills. And then I just all of a sudden started saying, Wait a minute, does it matter if I’m creating a campaign to, you know, to improve the viability and effectiveness of civil society in Kenya, or if I’m creating a campaign to sell a new brand of milk it doesn’t really matter. I’m still tapping in to people’s, what are people’s fears? What are their motivations? What do they care about? What engages them? How do you connect with them on a, you know, kind of a deeper human level, and so on. And those those skills that I needed to create the, you know, one kind of campaign in the for profit kind of world or one kind of campaign in the nonprofit humanitarian world, it was really tapping into the same kind of innate psychological aspects of humans. And all of a sudden, I started to really appreciate that and I started putting it all together, I’ve created that creative agency made some amazing brands and all of them, I’m proud to say have after experiencing myself in the agency, they do better business and I mean that in the way that it’s more human, it’s more, you know, it’s kinder to the earth, it’s kinder to humanity, it’s, it’s more benevolent, and it’s more, you know, and I use that Maya Angelou quote all the time for our you know, for my clients, you know, it’s it’s the people will remember the way you made them. I feel and that’s very important when it comes to branding, we have a relationship with brands. And then also it’s important, you know, when I’m creating a campaign to improve civil society, civil society needs to engage and they need, you know, people need to understand how they can engage, and they need to understand that it’s possible and viable and purposeful. And if you can tap into that, you know, in their psyche, then then you can create a, you know, an effective campaign. So, through all of that, I have, I’ve intermingled all the things that I care about and that I’m good at. And they’ve kind of just organically culminated into what I do now with workshops and consulting and podcasts and everything. It’s all just sort of the the the cumulative effect of all those experiences that I’ve had throughout my life that led me to this point. I don’t know if there was a huge tipping point. I really it just kind of has been gradually building over the years as I really kind of put it all together in my head and said, Okay, this is really there’s not really definitive lines between this like, I thought there were I can blur all these lines and have a lot of fun with it.
David Ralph [42:03]
Well, let’s play the words of Steve Jobs. Now that really sort of summarises exactly what you were saying there. There’s no huge tipping point. It’s just stuff you do on a daily basis that leeches somewhere Steve Jobs.
Steve Jobs [42:15]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [42:49]
I certainly think they’re gonna be words, but you buy into big time.
Jared Angaza [42:53]
Oh, yeah, man. I just had a conversation the other day about this exactly. And I love those words from Steve Jobs and It is about it’s it’s connecting the dots and we look hindsight 2020. You know, we look back and we say, Oh, that’s why that happened. That’s why I had that experience. That’s why I did that weird job that I can’t really place as I couldn’t place it at the time as to what it meant in my life, or why I would be doing it. And I had a conversation the other day about this. And I realised that I think, and this This goes for, you know, life, lifestyle, vocation dreams, and, and even spirituality, you know, in your beliefs there. I think that the greatest human challenge we have is faith. And I mean that in the way that I like to believe, I really believe and attach emotion to that belief. And I think that’s a key point, that good things are coming that good things are going to come out of what you’re doing that you are going to achieve your dreams or some some sort of iteration of that. And I yeah, I mean, it’s that faith that keeps me going on and on and on. I’m like, Well, I believe that eventually, something’s going to come with this. I remember when I was really young, I was big into saying, well, the things that I’m doing now may not come into fruition. You know, even in my lifetime, that you know, because I’m a peace activist, it’s pretty easy to say that may not happen in my lifetime, but I’m working towards that I’m contributing to that. And I have to attach myself to the emotion of belief, that and faith that that will actually that it will make an impact. And I’ve also come to realise, too, that if it makes an impact in one person’s life or a million people’s lives, it really doesn’t matter. And that’s that, you know, that’s a Mother Teresa philosophy for you, but I believe in it. And, yeah, I think that having the faith to it, like Steve Jobs says, to keep going and going and going, understanding that and having the faith that at some point, all those dots are going to connect into something magical, maybe even something better, I think, than what we’ve imagined so far, and I leave lots of room for that. mystery, I leave lots of room for the universe to orchestrate things that I couldn’t even fathom.
David Ralph [45:05]
I agree with that. Totally. I agree that my starting dream is just the starting dream. Because even now, two and a half years, three years in, it’s nowhere near what I wanted at the beginning. It’s going off into different directions. And I think that’s the beauty. We start off with the, the belief of what we believe is possible because what we’ve already seen, but once you start to see it coming back to you, and you could call it law of attraction or whenever you really, you grasp the fact that we start to small and once you start bigger, things become easier somehow. It’s really weird way of operating that the bigger the dreams, it’s almost like there’s less competition, and they’re easier to achieve. Would you say that Jared?
Jared Angaza [45:48]
Yeah, cuz most people don’t have faith. They don’t think that their dreams gonna come into fruition so they don’t even play ball. They just say, Well, you know, I don’t want to be labelled a dreamer. It’s interesting. I saw some piece of work. Recently, I think was on BBC about historic. I study indigenous cultures a lot. I teach from indigenous principles I teach a lot about from the Lakota ways and the Indians. And I think that it’s, yeah, it’s important to remember that having faith having having this this dreamer kind of philosophy about life is not a negative thing. We used to look at dreamers and call them saints. I mean, we looked at dreamers and we built them up the Michelangelo’s of the world and, and all of these other you know, Plato and Galileo and all they were dreamers, man, and we idolise these guys now in our history books, and on cool documentaries on BBC, but we don’t know but in the moment, right now we look at them and say, oh, that guy’s just a dreamer. He’s never gonna make it in life. What a weird concept of culture. Yeah, I think universal culture. Now. I I hope that the information we see floating around the internet, and all the freedom that that gives the world and the connectivity that comes from that helps us to develop kind of a universal understanding and belief and faith and, and support system for dreamers because that we need dreamers we just Steve Jobs, I mean, most of his life was looked at, as this kind of, you know, off in the clouds kind of dreamer, he’s never going to make it he’s never going to hold up to the PC World, and so on and so on. And he just kept dreaming and believing and believing and believing. And he did it. And now we look at that guy and say, Wow, he was he was amazing. He’s an icon of our culture and so on. And he was a dreamer. I’d like to, I’d like for us to be at a place in in humanity now where we look at dreamers currently, not just posthumously, or or in the past or whatever. But to look at them now and say that’s a dreamer. I want to support that I follow. You know, Sir Ken Robinson a lot. He’s in your neck of the woods and hit you His his philosophies on education and how we’ve kind of taken the creativity and the dreaming and all that out of the education system, because doesn’t really fit our economic system very well. So I’m very excited about some of the non traditional forms of education and my sister has three kids and she does what’s called unschooling, which is an interesting concept. And I think it’s very aligned. Even with the the, the path to enlightenment, I feel, I feel like most of my path through enlightenment has been a lot less about things that I’m learning and a lot more about unlearning all the crap that was programmed in my head. So I think one of those things is that being a dreamer is bad.
David Ralph [48:38]
So just before we send you back in time on the Sermon on the mic at the end of the show, where Where’s your life leading to now? Is it more of the same? Is it bigger? What? Where’s your focus for the next few years, Jared?
Jared Angaza [48:51]
Well, it’s interesting. I, you know, when I was 1516 years old, I started working with American Indian Movement. You know, indigenous Indian rights here in the United States, of which there are few, and I, I was doing many, many of the same things, I still were, you know, volunteer for them. And I was doing things for the same reasons. My why, you know, your, your, I don’t know if you know, Simon Sinek, I’m a big fan, but he talks about start with why, you know, and I’m a huge fan of that, and, you know, business and life and whatever. My y is pretty much the same as it was when I was 15 years old, or even younger, really, I was just more active at that point. But I don’t, I don’t see my y changing much at all. I see the methodologies evolving as they should, and, and innovating and so on. And I think that if you look at my life, if we were to, you know, to go forward in time, you know, 10 2030 years, I’ve a feeling I’ll be doing very much the same things, obviously with new methodologies and so on and so on. But at the end of the day, what I want to teach Teach. Well, here’s this, I believe that are most effective at this point in my life. This is not always my my my belief. But I believe that our most effective contribution to a more peaceful and loving world which is what I’m trying to contribute to, is for each of us to align ourselves with love to align ourselves with that positive energy to concentrate on how we make people feel to, to I mean, if we if we went about life that way, think about how different the world would be if we were really deliberate about how we’re making others feel around us that energy, that vibration that’s coming from us speaking of the law of attraction, I think that I am going to continue to put together services and and products and ideas and teachings and mastermind groups and podcasts and all those kind of things that continue to revolve around that same concept of aligning with love and encouraging people to do the same. And to to I use a lot of Yeah, I don’t I study a lot of, you know, Joseph Campbell and mythology and so on and, and looking at that, and and realising that we, you know, we have the we have these stories in our past we have these things that we’re working towards. And I think that for me, that why is always the same. And for me, it is just looking at other ways, how do I continue to serve humanity? How do I continue to be a positive force? How do I continue to find joy and to, you know, kind of spread that through my family as well in different modalities, if you will, and, and for instance, you didn’t know you’re gonna be doing a podcast, you know, five or 10 years ago or whatever, and now you’re doing it and you’re loving it and someday you may be doing something different, but your y may stay continually the same. And I think that’s cool. I appreciate that. I think
David Ralph [51:54]
podcasting is my thing. I don’t think I will ever leave podcasting I’ve been when they close the doors of the public Cast house, they will say Mr. Ralph, can you turn the lights out, please, because you’re the last one in there. It fulfils something in me, which I haven’t known before, away from public speaking, which is good and training that I used to do, which is good. This is something different. It’s almost intangible. It has an X Factor. Which why when you say that you’re launching, I think, good on you go for it. But please don’t pod fade as I say that thing to 20 episodes, and then it dries up. Because once you get past, but it takes it takes on a life of its own. Well, this is the part of the show that we have been leading up to. And this is the part that we call the sermon on mic when we send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to young Jared, what age would you choose and what advice would you give? Well, we’re gonna find out because I’m going to play the theme when it fades your lap. This is the Sermon on the mic.
Jared Angaza [53:17]
Looking back at my life, I would definitely try to try to intervene in my early 20s. And I would say a few things to myself. You ready? Here we go. I would say, Hey, man, chill out. Don’t take life so seriously. I know you’re an activist. I know you care about things. I know you care about what you’re you’re doing and I know you care. You think that it’s purposeful and it is. But when you take life so seriously, you pound yourself down so much. You wear yourself out so much, that you become way less effective, if not totally ineffective, in actually bringing your dreams into fruition. So I think that that A man in my later years now, I think that understanding that I can enjoy life that I can find joy. I realised as an activist, you know, and philanthropist or whatever, just a few years ago really, the concept of joy. Oddly, it came from reading the law of attraction that’s come up like three times now today. But I felt like oh my gosh, joy. I never thought about that in my life. I never even contemplated it. I was I martyred myself most of my life. I would go back and say, Hey, man, life doesn’t have to be that difficult and it’s not supposed to be and the more you can learn to flow, I’m a big fan of the doubt a Ching and studied it most of my life as well. The more you can learn to flow like water and stop fighting life, stop making a fight when there shouldn’t be one. I think the more you can do that, the more you’re going to thrive, the happier you’re going to be and the that happy vibration is going to vibrate out of you. And come out, you know and hit everyone around you. And I would rather one of my my gurus, Wayne Dyer, who is passed on to formlessness. He used to get up on stage with an orange and say if I squeeze this orange, what’s going to come out? And of course the answer is orange juice. And he would say yes, nothing else can come out of this, but orange juice. If the world squeezes you what’s going to come out and I realised that you know, looking back as I connect the dots, I often when the world would squeeze me it was rage against the machine that would come out. I was angry and frustrated and so on, so on. Now, I finally got to a place and I was like, man, I had this kind of vision you know, if I was hanging off a ledge somewhere and I needed help up, and I looked up and saw me my burned out angry self or, and it’s interesting. I actually thought or Richard Branson, one of my heroes. I would look who would I pick the pull me up. I want the guy that’s fresh and vibrant. and creative and excited about life and, and so on. I don’t want the burned out pissed off, activist guy. So I really started to change my life. I think that’s one very, very important thing that I would have told my my younger self that could have saved me a lot of heartache throughout my life. And I think again, following you know, some other gurus Joseph Campbell, I’m a big fan. And he talked about following your bliss, and that’s very aligned with that. I believe we should follow our bliss. I believe that the more that we do, the more effective we’ll be. And if we, you know, I think you know, there’s that old saying, if it feels good, do it. I agree with that. And but with a caveat there, if it feels good, and it’s not at the expense of another human or the earth, then do it. And I think it says it’s really as simple as that. And it sounds kind of cliche, but it’s it’s simple as that. And I think with that another another little tidbit there is to create space. Take time to recharge take time to get out into nature take time to learn and study and expand your perspective travel around the world experience other cultures and do all that I did a lot of that when I was younger. But I think if I had done it with the intentionality of of doing it for the purpose of expanding my perspective, so that I could have taken more of that in from that that kind of angle as opposed to doing it because I thought it was saving the world I could have gotten more out of a lot of those experiences. So you know, follow your bliss believe in your dreams, create the space and don’t take life so freakin seriously.
Unknown Speaker [57:36]
David Ralph [57:37]
was the number one best way that our audience can connect with you sir.
Jared Angaza [57:42]
I would say my website Jared on Gaza calm I’m sure you’ll put that in the show notes as well so people can see how to spell it. But I have all my stuff there. I’ve got a new podcast I’ve got a workshop on cultivating conscious families that I do with my wife got a new mastermind group on conscious philanthropy and kind innovating in our our methods of philanthropy and how we can work at the world’s problems from a perspective view, not just a symptom, putting out fires view. And then I continue to create amazing brands around the world that are coming from the ethos that I just talked about. So I’ve got all that stuff on there, and now launching my new podcast, and I’ll be working on that today, actually.
David Ralph [58:24]
Absolutely. We will have everything on the show notes. Jared, thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots. Please come back again, when you have more dots to join up because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our paths, it’s the best way to build our futures. Jared, thank you so much.
Jared Angaza [58:42]
Thank you, David. It was an honour I enjoyed it very much. I hope we can meet up in a pub sub day.
David Ralph [58:48]
Jeremy and ganza Well, fascinating guy, but he’s, he’s found his inner spirit is essence he’s belief and he’s building everything from the inside out. And I think that is the right way of doing it. I really do. But we don’t do we we we go after the money we go after stuff that brings us the external stuff, the new car, the holidays, but by starting off with what you love following your bliss and working outwards, it’s gotta be the right way. And it guys, if there’s anyone out there who’s been listening to Join Up Dots is on that, that journey of finding that inner place, please let us know. Give us a email and we’ll get you on the show. So we can sort of discuss your journey through because I think it’s a key point to everything, find out what’s right inside, and then deliver it to the world. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Join Up Dots. I’m David Ralph. And that was Episode 626. Say again, is
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you or wants to become. So he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to Join Up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on Join Up Dots.