Jeff Shore Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast
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Introducing Jeff Shore
Jeff Shore is todays guest joining us on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots business coaching podcast interview.
A motivational speaker and author whose mission is to teach us all to be bold in our actions
He believes that we all have it in us to get out of our comfort zones and create success in whatever we do.
With a background in sales, and knowledge of cognitive behavioural therapy, Jeff Shore has the ability to inspire us all.
By sharing personal stories of success, and no doubt failure and obstacles (we all have those in our lives after all).
How The Dots Joined Up For Jeff
And a humorous approach that has led him to be a sought after corporate speaker across the world.
But how has he managed to find the key to boldness that alludes so many of us in our lives?
And I guess the bigger question is, did Jeff always this ability to challenge and strive for bigger and better things, or was there a key moment in his life that showed him the way?
Well let’s bring onto the show to start joining up dots, as we discuss the words of Steve Jobs with the one and only Jeff Shore
Show Highlights
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Jeff Shore such as:
How he has A-ha moments every 12 minutes, and struggles not to be drawn by the next shiny object!
He recalls how he was an entrepreneur as a small child, and would run the local lemonade stand!
Why he believes the words of Dan Gilbert who states” Our memory is more powerful than our imagination” and explains the reasons why!
Why the question is not “how to break from the comfort zone, but the question is when are we going to do it?”!
And lastly……….
How we shouldn’t benchmark ourselves against where we feel we should be, but take a close look at where we are!
Jeff Shore Books
How To Connect With Jeff Shore
Return To The Top Of Jeff Shore
If you were inspired by the conversation with Jeff Shore, then why not check out other motivational and fun conversations with Jessica Cox, Hal Elrod, Make Time and Keith Khan Harris.
Every other episode to enjoy and consume can be found at Join Up Dots Podcast Archives
Audio Transcription Of Jeff Shore Interview
Intro [0:00]
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK, David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:26]
Yes, Hello, it’s me again, it is David Ralph. And obviously that means you are listening to a Join Up Dots, which you would know anyway, don’t it is not like the old days when you tune in radio, and then you got no idea what you’re listening to. You have gone on to iTunes, you’ve gone on to speaker or however you’re finding us. Thank you for being there. today. It’s the 23rd of July. So we’re taking on prove a year. And today’s guest is somebody that I’ve had booked for quite a while It seems but he’s finally on the other end of the line. And he is a motivational speaker and author whose mission is to teach us all to be bold in our actions, lead, that we all have it in us to get out of our comfort zones and create success in whatever we do. We have a background in sales and knowledge of cognitive and behavioural therapy. He has the ability to inspire us all by sharing personal storeys of success and no doubt, failure and obstacles. We all have those in our lives after all, and humorous approaches led him to be a sought after corporate speaker across the world. But how has he managed to find the key to boldness but eludes so many of us in our lives? And I guess the bigger question is, did you always have visibility to challenge and strive for bigger and better things? Or was there a key moment in his life that showed him the way? As you know, we call it the Big Dot? Well, let’s find out as we start joining up that don’t serve us live with the one and only Mr. Jeff Shore. How are you today? Jeff?
Jeff Shore [1:48]
I am fantastic. Coming to you from California where I’m sitting out in the sun and Pamela Anderson just jogged by that’s that’s the image correct? Is that what we’re going for?
David Ralph [1:58]
Absolutely. And I’m I would say that she’s going to massage you as well, just as I actually saw Pamela Anderson on the on a show in the UK the other day. And I have to say, unless she’s had work done because in the UK, we have this fascination and you probably see it more often than we do have people having plastic surgery and trying to guess if they’ve had it done or not. Now being in California, I imagine you see many people that walk past who quite honestly, Jeff look a bit strange. But if she’s had anything done, I am surprised because she kind of looks like she’s ageing naturally. How do you feel when she’s massaging you? And you look up into Pamela Anderson’s eyes. Do you think she’s had anything done?
Jeff Shore [2:44]
Yeah, I’ll tell you what it’s it is. I think what it comes down to is how not whether you’re going to get a cosmetic surgery, it’s how much you’re willing to pay for a good cosmetic surgery because there’s no question about it here in California, we see it across the board and and it’s especially that that atmosphere and that attitude that says boy, if I don’t look fresh and hip and young, then I’m nobody it’s a sad commentary in society in my opinion, but that’s what the tabloids will do for you.
David Ralph [3:15]
And I just did not I mean, a wind tunnel don’t like basically with their faces stretch back. Just before we get on to the show. I tell you what my bugbear is, it’s when chat show hosts do this a lot. And I bring on the guest and I won’t say the words Barry Manilow but the last time I thought this was when Barry Manilow walked on? And they always go, don’t they look amazing? And you kind of think no they don’t? Why won’t anyone sort of say you know enough is enough stop fiddling around just just be who you are and grow old gracefully like like we are Jeff. We’re growing into handsome men, I think the two of us
Jeff Shore [3:54]
Well, I appreciate the notion although I’m not sure that I necessarily agree. But But I but I certainly take your point I was recently watching the the induction ceremonies for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame on on HBO. And of course if you’re in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, it means you’re probably past your your prime by by way of at least the your hairline. So it is always amazing to me when I watch these old rockers that are still going on. But you look at you go, Wow, you’re trying to perform like a 25 year old but I’m sorry, you look like you’re 55 you’re actually 85.
David Ralph [4:31]
When when do you think enough is enough in in your own personal life. And I’m not saying that you’re you know, like Paul McCartney, or whatever, and you’re going to go on forever in a day. But there is a certain part where the experience that you have built up turns into something more powerful than you had as a younger man. And I’m sure you must have felt that your background in sales, you you build it out, unknowingly you build up a history in sales, and then suddenly you realise you can take it to the next level. Do you remember when that occurred and you suddenly feel I’ve got enough history now to be able to step away from the crowd and change my life?
Jeff Shore [5:09]
It’s really interesting, I think what you’re referring here to is the whole concept of, if you want to call it paradigm, self perception, the way that we see ourselves, and, and those paradigms are so often set forth for us at a very, very young age. And then they stay with us for a long time. So, you know, I’m thinking back all the way to that was probably the second grade when, you know, Miss Willie looked at me and said, Jeff, we’re giving you more lines in the school play than anyone else because you can act. And I think I probably looked at her like, Okay, if you say so. And that was a paradigm shifting moment for me. But, you know, I’ve been acting obviously, not professionally, but but it’s been a part of my professional life, my presentation skills, my performance skills, if you will, I was in, you know, all of the high school and college student dramas and musicals and all of that. And I think it comes down to that early paradigm setting. Unfortunately, I think the negative paradigm setting also takes place where we look at and say you can do this, but you can’t do that. And we start getting these beliefs that are difficult to change from within. So I think what happens here is that that people around us who see more in us than we see on ourselves, are oftentimes those people who can get us to break out of that paradigm, and to try new things and to challenge ourselves. So as I was talking is an example, I’ve been working with sales professionals for many, many years. But as I was working with the sales professionals on technique, recognising that from any technique was not the problem, the problem was what I call a comfort addiction. And as I started to begin to talk about this, then people came to me and said, You know what, Jeff, I appreciate your help on the technique. But where you’re really helping me is to grow my own boldness and to deal with my own desire for comfort. And that’s that, again, was an external paradigm shift for me to look at it and say, well, gee, maybe I should be pursuing this more and more. And and and that was the the light bulb moment that really transformed my key emphasis into that idea, not just a sales technique, which is still we’ll talk about, but but my real passion here is how people deal with their comfort addictions in all areas of their life.
David Ralph [7:23]
When when you had that moment, that aha moment, was it I kind of and the clouds parted? And the angels came down? Or was it sort of like six or seven conversations that had been happening over like three or four months where you just thought I can’t ignore this anymore? Too many people are saying is to me, there’s something here to work for.
Jeff Shore [7:42]
Yeah, you know, part of this is a personality style question, my friend, because I have aha moments. So about every 12 minutes or so that’s just the way I am I suffer from goal diffusion there. I’m a shiny object guy. It they’re just easily distracted. So I’m constantly having these moments where you say, well, that’s revolutionary, that’s transformational. I have trained myself over time to see if that moment lasts. And that’s for me the big gauge. So from there, yes, I can look it back back and say there was a trigger moment there. But I but I have to tell you that it wasn’t until that stuck with me. And it became such a part of my thinking. And I started to absolutely devour the subject matter, that that I really realised that I was onto something. And I think that that’s a wise way to be able to look at it. It’s okay to be excited in the moment. And I certainly am a proponent of such a hard type of moments. But if it doesn’t, if the passion isn’t strong enough to sustain you moving forward, then it probably wasn’t there in the first place. So it’s think of two examples of this one was a an interview that the great Sir Ken Robinson did with Eric Clapton, and Eric Clapton, here’s all the time people say, Well, I wish I could play guitar like you. And it knows it’s supposed to be accomplished. But deep down what he’s thinking is No, you don’t. Because if you really wish, you could play guitar like me, you would practice until your fingers bled over and over again, you’d give up social activities. And you would be late at night trying to figure out a very, very difficult riff. And then eventually, you would play guitar like me, what you’re really saying is, I wish you could play guitar like me, without working as hard as you’ve worked in order to play guitar like me. So the question here is, is the passion of the aha moment strong enough to sustain you into long term change into long term action. And I’ll just one other quick example. You know, I’ve written several books, the most recent book was picked up by McGraw Hill. So you see it in the bookstores. It’s a great personal thrill. But that makes my phone rang with people saying, Well, how can I write a book? How can I write a book, and I’ll always give them the same first step. If they’re looking for counsel, I will ask them, I want you to send me a one page, your book, tell me what the title is, tell me what the the elevator speech and what the book is about, tell me the chapter headings, and then tell me who your audience is. And let’s start there. And I’ll be happy to sort of walk you through it. That is a I’ve given that counsel, I don’t know, 500 times. And I’ve received a handful of responses. And it’s my way of trying to figure out do you is this just an idea in your head? Or are you actually passionate enough to do something about it? I love the aha moments. But they’re nothing if the passion is strong enough to carry it into action.
David Ralph [10:35]
He’s fascinating. You’re saying that because I’m listening to you. And as normally as the host of this show, I like to button because there’s so many times when I kind of think, Oh, yeah, I’ve got something to say about that. I’ve got something to say about that. And the first thing that struck me was the Eric Clapton store, you were saying, because I saw an interview with Eric Clapton the other day. And he says that he can actually play like Eric Clapton anymore. He watches old YouTube videos of himself. And he thinks I can’t actually do it anymore. But that’s, you know, my abilities are diminishing somewhat, which is kind of fascinating that we still benchmark these people as legends in their field, but actually, their legends are slipping away. And so it just shows you that there’s, there’s areas for new challenges to come in and overthrow. But you need to have that ability to practice, you need to have the ability to want to work at three o’clock in the morning, and then go to bed for a couple of hours, and then get up again, and keep on going for it. So that’s the interesting thing on that. But the other thing that sort of fascinated me, as you were saying, that is, the passion that comes out of you when you talk is that wasn’t always there when he was like a little chap and a little Jeff shore and you’re running around the yard, what you always the kind of kid that was going, we could do that. And yes, we could do that. And Come on, guys, come over here. And we’re at this club part. And we’re doing that we were kind of at challenging status quo, little five year old.
Jeff Shore [11:54]
I was, I really was, I was, I was the entre printer. I was the lemonade stand kid, I always wanted to try and figure out it. I never had any problem. Well, again, this goes back to that paradigm. discussion. My father was Believe it or not a professional magician. And he had me performing as his assistant at a very, very young age, it was a cute little act with a magician and his young, cute little son up there. It was all good. And so from the very start, I had no problems with stage fright. I had no problems with public expression. And so yeah, I think I have always had in me that that little bit of, you know, get out there. However, the breakthrough came went under when I understood that I was only willing to do that within my comfort zone. So for me, I had to get to the point where I was willing to put myself out there in areas where I was not comfortable. That was the challenge. So I always had this comfort test to ask myself, okay, do I want to do this? Yes. Am I comfortable doing this? No, then I’m not doing it. So that that’s really the big breakthrough for me was just trying to figure out how do I step out and exert my personality in areas where I was previously hindered by my own comfort, addiction.
David Ralph [13:16]
The breakthrough for me in this show came I created the tagline. And it was almost like my, my mind was working in a way because since then, the tagline is connecting our past to build our future. And I don’t know where that came from. But it was just I was sitting in a pub with a mate one day, and I said, that’s what I’m going to call the show. And he said, what does that mean? I kind of like it. But what does it mean? I said, I don’t really know, but just kind of sounds good. But as we’ve been doing all the shows, I was speaking to a chap last night and I said to him, I bet you love Lego as a five year old he went, I love Lego, how do you know that, and the ability of you know yourself to be a presenter and stand up and, and, and be the entrepreneurial five year old. It’s amazing. But all of us and I’ve said this time and time again, these shows, all of us who are looking for our path in life, actually know our path, we’ve just forgotten it. And it’s the things that we love doing as kids and it’s the passions when we ran home from school. And it was the first thing that we would do it, whether it was laying on the floor drawing or building things, you can see that time and time again. But if somebody’s love Lego, and building stuff, now they work in web development, and they’re building things. And if somebody was a drawer, now they’re doing artistry and all that kind of stuff. And so your path was pretty mapped out. And it wouldn’t surprise me if you didn’t do a bit of writing as well, when you were little.
Jeff Shore [14:34]
I always always loved to write and that that is a very perceptive on your part. There’s no question about it. It was it was always a big part of, of my joy. It was a great way to express myself. Definitely.
David Ralph [14:48]
Well, don’t you think we forget this Ben, he sees a commonality which is coming out on my shows time and time again. And even myself, I forgot it until I started doing this show and started reflecting my own life. And I’ve heard things and I kind of think, God I should have been doing this years ago. I just didn’t know it wasn’t it wasn’t the dots hadn’t joined up in my life. But why do you think is such a commonality across the globe that we go on a path that for many of us isn’t our path, it’s the expected path to
Jeff Shore [15:21]
here’s the best that I can figure out on this. I’m going to do a massive, massive paraphrase of the psychologist Daniel Gilbert, the Harvard psychologist Daniel Gilbert, and and sort of sum up a core of of his teaching with this one phrase, our memory is far more powerful than our imagination, or memory is more powerful than our imagination. So if you go back to when you clearly David have this this interest in who we are as young people and how that transfers into our adult life? Well, one of the things that we look at is young people. And maybe today’s young people are different, because if they don’t have an iPhone in their hand, I’m not sure that they know what to do with themselves. But when I was a kid, you know, give me a stick, and a playmate. And I’m good to go. I mean, I can create, we can play war, we can play stickball, we can do anything we want, with just our imagination and, and I’m a superhero. And then suddenly, I’m not I’m an actor, or whatever I can do whatever I wanted to do as a child. So that imagination is such an inherent part of what it is that we do. And I think over time, we sort of beat this concept called reality into children, and almost teach them that that imagination that once served them so well and gave them so many happy times, is really maybe not all that useful in day to day life. And quite frankly, people are going to think you’re a little bit of a freak if you continue on that path. So what happens is our memory becomes much more powerful than our imagination, not so when you’re small. But when you’re older, your memory is more powerful than your imagined nation. And so it’s much easier to go to what I am most familiar with, which is what I’ve always done versus what could be. And it’s one of the things when I study really, really successful people, they have managed to ignite that imaginative trait and be able to channel it into oftentimes and unimaginative world. So when I look, for example, right now with the work that Ilan Musk is doing with Tesla and SpaceX and Solar City, and he’s, he’s completely into this creative disruption in going in and saying, how does the rest of the world do business great, let me cut in and try and figure out a completely different way. It’s an active imagination that’s channelled in the right way. And when we do that, I think we can create amazing things. But I do think we’re locked in this in this in this dreaded position that our our memory is more powerful than our imagination.
David Ralph [17:59]
I’m kind of in therapy every single day, I have these conversations and on a Thursday and Friday my recording days. I do about six or seven a day. And I lots of the conversations blow into one but there are themes that run through it. But a chap who was Episode 82 for ago so if you haven’t listened to that one jump back because it’s a belter, it really is. He says that it is easier for us to do the bigger dreams and ban the normal stuff that everybody else does. And he’s kind of logic is he’s basically managed to get himself on Richard Branson’s flight, or he’s he’s down to 50% chance of getting on this flight to go up on that on that spaceship that he’s creating, to photograph the world from space. And I sort of said to him, how did you do this? And he told me this amazing storey where he he got on, he just go by the first thing I need to do is meet Richard Branson. How the hell do you do that? Well, let’s look on Twitter. Oh, he’s in Miami. I’ll get a flight over to Miami. It pays Miami things if I don’t get meet Richard Branson, it only cost me 200 bucks. Anyway, it would be a nice weekend way. And he blogs his way in, meet Richard Branson, has a little chat with him, pitches his idea to him and Branson went, yeah. Okay, that sounds good. I’ll set you up with a PA. And Ben, he says a brilliant question to him. And he says to him, how many people have asked this question How many people have pitch to you to be the photographer from space. And Richard Branson said to you and another person so it’s down to 5050. And he said to me, isn’t that amazing? But something that seems impossible was only four or five steps. And now I put myself in a 5050 chance and it kind of makes your mind go Finally, where we are all going for the same jobs we’re all going for you know the job in Taco Bell bar if you actually go for something which seems impossible, you’re more likely to achieve it.
Jeff Shore [20:00]
Fascinating storey I love that storey and that is absolutely the idea of of it. So I guess it’s sort of trite and almost cliche to say, you know, if you’re if you’re reach for the stars, you still end up with the moon. But there’s a lot of truth to the idea that we do tend to under shoot, what we tend to think of as a big, active, vivid imaginative goal is may not really be that big a deal in the first place. And so, you know, when when I think it was, I don’t remember who once said was Emerson, I’m perhaps who once said what you become on the journey is far more important than where you arrive on the journey. And I think that that’s what we’re talking about, if you want to think in small terms, and you can get the small payoffs, but but you want to think in big terms, if you want the big payoff. So it’s a great storey love it
David Ralph [20:50]
is I I listened with my jaw dropping, because it was just, it kind of seems so easy. It was like three or four steps and he got what he wanted. And it is the mindset isn’t it is the mindset to go and do something a little bit different. I’m doing this show now. And I’ve said this numerous times as well. It’s a daily show. So I do repeat myself. But when I started it, a lot of people were going, What the hell are you doing, you know, that’s not a business. That’s not how you gonna make money on it. And now it’s going like a rocket ship. A lot of people are saying to me are always knew it was going to work. And it seems fascinating to me that they were kind of anchoring me to a position of, you know, normality where where they are. And now I am moving things forward. And fortunately, it’s going very, very well. there with me and that following me and that that’s that’s weird as well, isn’t it?
Jeff Shore [21:40]
It is but I think that the everybody loves a good success storey. But it does challenge them to say, well, well, why not? Me? Right. That’s that that is a challenge that people are going to have. But But I’m completely and with you on this. And I think most of your listeners would be from the perspective that it seems just a simple fact of human nature that if you don’t try, you don’t get so what differences are made right from the very beginning. I just think we live in a society where we are so consumed with what other people might think that it draws us into a world of safety that is, you know, really just at the very least, hindering, but at the worst, it might just be dangerous to our overall well being. So, you know, I’m looking at it right now. And one of the things that I’ve been developing and continue to develop, but a lot of people are enamoured with the phrase bucket list of everything that they want to do in their life before they die before they kick the bucket. My experience with that is that most people it’s more of a dream list. It’s It’s like an it would be nice list. But the question is, how actionable is it really, I don’t have a bucket list. I have a discomfort list. And I have a list of things that I have always wanted to do. But I’ve been hindered by my own desire for comfort, such that I have not actually taken the action on any of those things. Because, again, I think we all have some of that comfort addict in us. So here I am at age 52. Presently, taking jazz piano lessons with a goal to try and perform publicly sometime in 2014. I’ve played very little piano I’ve never performed publicly ever, but I want to play in a jazz piano trio this year. My wife and I are are taking dance lessons. We’re trying to get the rumba down now because I’ve always enjoyed watching people dance, but I’ve always felt self conscious about it. And at age 52 here’s where I’ve completely lost my line. In March, I joined a adult learn to play ice hockey class. And I’ve been an ice hockey fan since I was a very small child, but I don’t know how to ice skate. So I have always used as an excuse never to even try it. And here I am saying hey, listen, I don’t I do not want to let my discomfort get in the way. And I know you’re from the US ice hockey is the sport where there’s you put on skates and you’re on ice and sticks and well I just think football but but with sticks in your
David Ralph [24:07]
hand. Up, don’t you? That’s what you out for.
Jeff Shore [24:11]
That’s what I that’s why I want to play. I want to I want to hit somebody. Yeah,
David Ralph [24:15]
yeah, just just not not there to fail. But But what what, you know, now you’re doing these things on ECM a little bit? A few things. Why do you not do it? 10 years ago, when I was 42,
Jeff Shore [24:25]
there is just absolutely no question I I you know, I’m not the type of person that really likes to dwell on regrets very much. But, you know, it’s go back to your Eric Clapton storey about his realisation that he can’t play the way that he used to play. And that might very well be true. But what he has now that he didn’t have, back when he could play that one, he has wisdom, he has perspective. And he can use that to help grow and mentor young musicians who are coming up to give them a piece of what he knows. So that’s where I am right now. I don’t want to go back and say, why didn’t I do this sooner and myself up over it? What I do want to do is reach other people and say, why not? Now? Why not? Now? What are you waiting for? And that’s the big concern is that that safe zone draws us and to say, stay where you’re at, your memory is more powerful than your imaginations, you’re going to think back on the way it’s always been that you’ve always done things. And that’s a core part of my message is to challenge people to say, why not Now, why not? Now? How did you get bold,
David Ralph [25:30]
because what you’re saying now is almost like a very gung ho attitude, and you’re doing things because there’s a certain part of my life. And I I felt it, I think, when I was 30, and I felt it big time when I was 40. And I think the 41 was double of Oh my God, I’m wasting my life. What am I doing? I need to do something, I need to leave my mark. But we’re not like that. As youngsters, we we think we’ve got forever in a day. And we think that you know, things aren’t going to go our way. So we do go with the herd. And we just sort of float along. But when did you become bold? When did you actually stand up because even your presentations, you speak in vast crowds. I’ve done that as well. And that’s not something you can do instantly. Some people can, but it’s something you build up to. And all of us even if we’ve been doing it for years and years and years, a terrified it just we controlled it in a different way. So can you remember a time when you look back and you go, that was that was so scary, but I almost couldn’t deal with it and push through.
Jeff Shore [26:32]
I was the here in the United States, I was the National Sales Director for a fortune 500 company and I had been with this company for 11 years. I climb the ladder, climb the ladder, climb the ladder. And then to quote the late Stephen Covey what happens when you climb the ladder for years of your life only to realise that the ladder is leaning on the wrong wall. And there was a massive reorganisation, I was offered a position in the company that I refused to take. After 11 years, we sort of looked at each other across the table and said, All right, well, thanks for playing the game, here’s some lovely parting gifts Enjoy the rest of your life. And the next thing you know, I’m out of there. And, and I had, the problem is that that job was so safe for me, I was on this natural projection and trajectory to constantly get a slight increase in salary, a slight increase in office location, a slight increase in title. And I had followed that path over and over again, I had, I didn’t realise how safely I was living at that moment. So it wasn’t until this really happened to me that I had to step aside first feeling very much as a victim here, like I gave a saying to this big corporation, I gave you my heart and soul for all those years. And this is how you thank me. And I had to have that massive pity party, only to step back after a time and say, Okay, well, I didn’t ask for this. But now there’s that opportunity for me to reinvent now there’s the opportunity for me to design the life that I wanted to leave now, I admit to the listeners that that was easier for me from the perspective that having left this company with a big severance package. And I had the financial footing to be able to start my own company to be able to do that, that made it easier. But it wouldn’t have been appropriate. If I wasn’t in that position for me to say, Well, you know what, I just can’t afford it, or I don’t have the time or I don’t have the talent. So I’m going to go work for another Corporation doing this same job, that would have been the safe thing to do. It would also have been in retrospect, the horrific thing to do. Because in these last 15 years that I have built my own business and my own name and my own brand, my own opportunities. They have been by far the best 15 years of my life professionally. And I am accomplishing things and having a great time doing it that I would not have done except that I been sucked into that atmosphere of safety. And I’m looking at it just one last picture of this to challenge the listener it my my dear sister Cindy, who I love very dearly. She’s counting the days until she can retire as the payer as a as the payroll manager for the city of Milpitas, California, a job that she has been at for 28 years. And when you’re counting the days until you can cash your retirement check. And finally leave that horrid place. Sorry, you’re not living the life you’re supposed to live.
David Ralph [29:33]
I did 15 years for one company and I did 10 years for another and or just under 10 years. And I look back on it. And the first 15 years, I didn’t know any better. It was just what I was doing. And I go off on a holiday, have a few beers with my mates and just kind of just exist really, about the last 10 years, I think that there was a bubble and it was starting to float up. And it got to the point where the bubble was so big I had jump into it and just float out the window. And I think I couldn’t have stayed there any longer. But I’ve never been pushed out of anywhere. Once I did, but I was more due to my stupid actions really now but storey but the most of the times, it’s my choice to do that. And I would have loved to been pushed out of my job my last one, five years earlier, I look back on it now. And I think I could have I could still be there for another 1520 years, I had to make a conscious decision. And I remember when I did that conscious decision, it took all my energy to actually remain focused afterwards, because I had a free month notice period I had to work. And once you make that decision, and I say this to all the listeners, once you make that decision to actually do something, and it doesn’t have to be quitting your job, it doesn’t mean punching your manager in the face, it doesn’t mean anything. It can just be something that does take you out of the comfort zone, you need to do it as quickly as possible. Once you make that decision, do it before you change your mind. Because I found that three months of waiting, waiting, waiting before I could leave was the hardest thing that I ever went through. And I never felt that I was going to change my mind. But my energy just went down, down, down down. Now I’m doing this. It’s like I’m believing in Rocket Power, Mr. Sure.
Jeff Shore [31:22]
I love it. I love it. I love it. And I would guess that had you stayed at that company and said, You know what, it’s just not prudent. It’s just not responsible for me to do something else. So I’m going to stay here that that discontent would still stay with you. But the next time you decide you wanted to leave, it would actually be harder to leave, you might think it’d be easier because the discontent continue to rise. But you would already really committed that I think makes it we get stuck for a longer period of time. Is that not so?
David Ralph [31:50]
Yeah, I think so. And I think what you were saying about when you lost your job, and for a while you was a victim. That is what we lost the big dot that is the dot. But most of the guests on the show, they will have a time but they look back and go back was crap. That was a terrible time to go through. I really didn’t like it. But my god now I look at it now. Thank God for happened. Because if it wasn’t for that big dot, where my life wouldn’t be where it is now. And it’s it seems, you know, once again, a commonality that runs through all the shows. But people have to almost get to rock bottom, they have to have a certain amount of pain and discomfort before they challenge that comfort. But they’re in and the comfort word is is the worst swear word ever. Now I think I think for everyone who’s in a comfort, and if you are in combat and you love it, then great, you know, as I would say if you love doing your job, go in there. And if you all want, you want to do a nine to five and being come home and sit on the sofa with a box set of whatever, then brilliant. But if you do want something else, you’ve got to start challenging that comfort feeling because there’s no way of moving forward. Otherwise, what what do you reckon, Jeff? How can somebody’s stop breaking free from that kind of a wait to next week? Oh, there’s a pay rise in August? And that that constant thing that keeps you in a position when you’re not happy?
Jeff Shore [33:12]
Well, I think you know, it’s a question that I get actually on a regular basis of people asked me how do I build the boldness muscle is I referred to it and and I think the it’s a good question. I think that’s the stronger question is not necessarily how but when. Because when we think about our discomfort, the problem that we find ourselves, and this is just a just an extension of human nature. If I wait to respond, until I’m facing that discomfort, then I’m likely to respond from the very primitive part of my brain. And we have this this, this this flee instinct in us. It’s just part of our of our of our DNA that says when we’re when we see discomfort, we sense discomfort, that we we perceive that as some sort of threat to us. And then our threat sensitivity, our brain is going to send the message that says run away. And this is very, very common. Whenever we are just whenever we’re uncomfortable, we’re going to have a decision to make, I constantly am telling people this, every moment of discomfort is associated with a moment of decision. And it doesn’t matter what it is in work or in life. Your teenage daughter rolls her eyes at you it’s uncomfortable, right now you have a decision to make, you know, you’re you’ve got a task to do that you don’t want to do it’s uncomfortable, great. Now you have a decision to make. So it doesn’t matter what aspect of our life, whenever we have a moment of discomfort, we have a moment of decision. The problem is if we do not prepare in advance for those discomforts, then we’re going to make the decision on reaction out of the very emotional and primitive side of our brain. And that side of our brain is going to tell us run away. So the discussion here is to look at it and say how can I prepare for those discomforts in advance. So I always recommend that people are starting to build that discomfort muscle, or that boldness muscle to start by taking common discomforts, in your job in your life, whatever it happens to be, and anticipating those in advance and deciding before the discomfort is present, as to how you’re going to respond. Because now when I do that, I can make that decision out of a logical side of my brain, rather than the emotional side of my brain. And I sort of liken it this way. If you’ve got an alcoholic and a psychologist office, in a counselor’s office, the council is going to say, Hey, don’t drink, it’s bad for you. And the alcoholics gonna say, You’re right, I see the error of my ways, I’m not going to drink anymore. And if you put them on a lie detector on a polygraph, he’s going to pass he believes that he’s not going to drink anymore. Well, what’s the problem? Well, the problem is, there’s no alcohol in the counsellors office, it’s pretty easy to say that then the question is, how are you going to respond when you’re around your drinking buddies, or when the stresses of your life that you have not managed are rearing up and causing you to crawl inside a bottle, which is the safest, most comfortable place that you know? So the idea here is to put yourself in that mental frame of mind before you face the discomfort not when you face the discomfort. But before you face the discovery. Does
David Ralph [36:23]
that make sense? It makes total sense. And I’m going to play a little clip here. And I’ve started playing this in the shows, I will be bringing Steve Jobs on very shortly. But I love this clip. And I don’t know if you’ve heard it, so I’m not going to build it up. But um, if you haven’t heard it, see if you can guess who it is because I think this is amazing.
Unknown Speaker [36:39]
My father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.
David Ralph [37:06]
Once you have a kind of Batman, did you know who that is?
Unknown Speaker [37:09]
Steve Jobs. Now he’s Jim Carrey,
David Ralph [37:11]
the comedian Jim is a really Yeah, he did a presentation in a university recently. And it really is worth seeing is 26 minutes long. Most of it is for laughs But then he hits with fat. And when I heard it, I thought I’m going to Nick that and put it on the show. Because that really says what you’re saying, doesn’t it? It? Why is it going
Jeff Shore [37:34]
to take this? As soon as you said that I have I have seen that clip. And and boy that was very, very powerful. And you’re right. It’s it’s worth watching that commencement speech, because it’s funny, but he also was very poignant and very powerful. exactly the right moments. And and and that is the perfect example of someone who is willing to embrace discovered and said, if you’re going to try and make it big in the theatre arts, that’s an uncomfortable undertaking, do you have the passion to deal with that discomfort. And I think that most people in the theatre arts and and entertainment, and it’s just like so many walks of life, they, they they quit, they give into their discomfort just before their big break. And that’s just devastating to me,
David Ralph [38:23]
is to me as well. And that is one of the reasons this this show is themed in such a way I just want somebody out there. And fortunately, I’m getting many, many emails from people who have said, and they’ve pinpointed moments in the shows and I’ll be ashamed to say a lot of them. I don’t actually remember saying or, or thinking in the shows because there was one after it’s like a tsunami of positivity that I’m swimming against at the moment. But they send me these emails and I jot down key elements. And I say it was bad, but made me want to do this. And they’re telling me what they’re doing. And I’m building up this network across the globe, of people. And in lovely. And it was it was brilliant when it started because it was so unexpected. But now it’s getting so big, I feel like almost, I’m not managing to get them as much support as I want to because it’s just me doing it. But for you listening out there, if you do send me an email, I do read all of them. And I will get back to all of you in some regard. But I love what you’re doing. I really love that support. And I love the fact that you are challenging because there is a better life out there. And that really leads us on to the the main speech. And this is the Steve Jobs one. And this says Just have faith in your abilities, trust yourself and take action. So this is Steve Jobs.
Steve Jobs [39:41]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leaves you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [40:17]
Do I believe that you believe that? So I’m not going to say Do you believe those words? Because I think it’s quite obvious that you do. But do you remember when you started to realise that a lot of your history was both areas but that aren’t going to join up your dots.
Jeff Shore [40:35]
It was really what I I was doing some research in this whole area of of how our memory works. And and it goes with what Steve Jobs was just talking about was could have been a paraphrase of Dan Gilbert, as I referenced earlier in this conversation, that your memory is more powerful than your imagination, you can see the dots behind you, you can’t always see the dots in front of you. But as I was doing this, as I was preparing this as I was learning this, you know, one of the things that I came across and I can’t remember exactly how this happened. But I came across an interesting psychological aspect of a thinking error called the imposter syndrome. And perhaps some of your listeners have heard of the imposter syndrome before you Google it if you’d like but, but the idea here is this. The imposter syndrome is some it’s an irrational fear that somebody is going to find out that I’m basically making things up that it’s that I am the proverbial Emperor with no clothes that they’re going to be on to me and I remember reading about the imposter syndrome and thinking, Oh, Noes there, they’ve got their they figured it out. I’m making stuff up for a living this is this is not good. And, and it was it was it was almost terrifying to me. So then I went to a trusted friend and, and I and I told him about this emotional response that I had had to this imposter syndrome, the fear that people are going to figure out that I I do a lot of making stuff up as I go. And she looked at me and she said you should have Jeff, how could you say that? Look at your track record, look at what you’ve accomplished. Look, look at look at your history, look at your experience, look at the at the legacy of lives that you have changed, how can you possibly even say that. And by the way, I have the imposter syndrome also. And I had that same conversation with people over and over again. And then it turns out over time, apparently everybody deals with the imposter syndrome. But the key here is to understand that it’s an irrational fear that people are going to figure out that you’re not all you say you are. So for me it was a matter of looking at it and saying, boy, you know what, here’s the problem that we have with people like like you and I have. And I have to suspect that there’s a lot of listeners who are going through the same thing. And it’s something that the the management guru, Dan Sullivan calls living in the gap. We’re constantly comparing where we are to where we feel like we should be, we’re constantly looking at it and saying, I, I’ve gotten to this level of success. But Dang it, if I really would have worked hard I could have been at that level. Or I could have, I could have done this much more and made that much more money. And there’s nothing wrong with having big goals, I think we’ve made that clear that I’m a big proponent. But when we hang out in that gap between what we’ve accomplished, and where we are, where we feel like we should have accomplished, it’s going to lead to frustration and self doubt, and a lack of confidence. And the remedy here is to constantly look at it and say, Where am I versus where I was. So it’s not where am I where compared to where I should be? It’s where am I compared to where I was. So we’ve got to constantly look at and say, How do I make sure that I’m feasting on those victories and that I can show a clear trajectory of growth and success in my life. Now if I look back, and I say this is where I am today, this is where it was a year ago, and I see no change, that should freak you out, that should panic you. But if you can go back and say look at what I’ve done in the last year, the last two years, the last five years. If I can stay out of that gap, then it motivates me to continue to connect the dots going forward again, to draw Steve Jobs back into the conversation. So for me, I in even in my team, there are eight of us on the shore consulting team, we send an email around every afternoon at four o’clock called the daily win. And everybody has to report in this was the biggest accomplishment for me all the day, we want to make sure on a daily basis that we’re counting those victories and marking our progress.
David Ralph [44:35]
We have dinner time in the Ralph household. I’m missing my dinner tonight. But I’m they’re eating and I’m sure they’re they’re enjoying the Carrey that I cooked just before we started interviewing. And one of the things that we always do, we always say, what was your good thing and your bad thing, and you have to go around the table and you go well, my bad thing was, you know, I was really tired. When I got up this morning. I wasn’t ready. But my good thing was and we always sort of end on a positive and stuff. And we go around in a circle. And it’s just something that we’ve done for years. And it’s like that when email, it just puts like a positive spin on it. And it got to a point where I thought the kids are growing up. Now they won’t want to do this. But they they still want to do it. And they do it every single night. And when the girls bring their boyfriends home, the boyfriends you can see them going, Oh, god, they’re doing this, what am I going to think of what I’m going to pick up? But it is it’s a nice way of benchmarking your day. And it’s a nice way of just celebrating those small wins, isn’t it?
Jeff Shore [45:33]
When you contrast that with the normal conversation, how was your day? When you think about it, go back to teenagers again, for just a moment, your average teenager is inflicted with so much negativity between what they see on the news between just the today’s Facebook streams for crying out loud, with complaining and everything else that goes on. If you simply ask the question, how was your day, you’re probably going to start with a negative response. If you’re interested floating in the air, what was the best part of your day? What was your when you force them to stop and recount into the positive? I think that that’s it for those of you for those of your listeners who are hearing this, and if that’s the only thing you got out of this entire time together that that one piece of advice is well worth it. What’s the conversation you have around the dinner table with your kids?
David Ralph [46:25]
It’s a part of life, but it’s being lost, isn’t it? So many people are eating different rooms and they will within and they were without. I think the dinner time the family dinner time is so vitally important. And unfortunately with our life at the moment, it’s not everyday like it used to be. But when it is it is your one moment, isn’t it to really take focus on the people that you love the most.
Jeff Shore [46:50]
There is an aspect of vulnerability in such conversations that sometimes eludes us. We can we can be ourselves we can be open and honest with our family. But even that ability with our own family is lost in its in frequency. So just to continue the conversations and to to stay with that refreshing honesty. It’s a beautiful way to spend that time around the table.
David Ralph [47:15]
Do you have people that you can’t relate to honour people that actually when you deal with them, they will make you uncomfortable? Even though you’re a natural talker? You’re a positive guy, other people in your life that you have to deal with that for some reason or other? You are not Jeff sure when you’re dealing with them.
Jeff Shore [47:39]
Yes, lots, lots and lots and lots and you know what they are, you know, what, if I wanted to put one huge umbrella over over the lot of them, I would say would be those people who are not willing to take responsibility for their, for their actions or behaviours are the results in their life, I I don’t have a lot of sympathy for the victims. For the victim mentality that is not warranted. I go with a philosophy that’s that there are 7 billion people in the world, there’s always somebody who’s got it well, worse than you do. And for the you know, countries that I deal with that I do business and all highly developed countries. Look, you know, we’ve got it so good, we there is no excuse not to succeed in our walk when you consider the the pain and agony that is a way of life of so many people on this planet. So to play the victim over something like the way you were treated, or the fact that your taxes are too high, or the government is unfair. I mean, I have no tolerance, quite frankly, I really don’t, you know, I, I want to shake these people either shoulders and say, people way dumber than you would figure this out. And by the way those people had had fun, fewer advantages that you have, you’ve been given an incredible opportunity, get out of your own victim mentality, and take responsibility for your own actions. I hope that wasn’t too too crude, a statement right there. But
David Ralph [49:13]
that’s me from the heart. That’s what this show is about. I’m reading a book at the moment is by the side of my bed, and my daughter brought me and it’s called think like a freak. And it’s about looking at problems in a different way to everybody else. And they talk about how people beat the four minute mile by changing their mindset and blah, blah, blah. And one of the things I read last night, and I sort of said to my wife, and she went, Oh, that’s a bit morbid. I went No, this is fascinating. But if you go to the poorest countries in the world, the suicide rate is almost non existent. And the suicide rate in places like America, well, America exactly, this is what they were saying is twice the homicide rate. When you think that in the States, you’ve got so many more opportunities, bar, you then have got that kind of perception of standard of living, but the poor people done by accept their situation, and they make the most of it. Were in the UK and the United States, we are for many of us benchmarking ourselves exactly, as you said, against where we think our life should be, and not being happy with it.
Jeff Shore [50:15]
Hmm. It’s a sad commentary. It really, really is. The good news is that there is that remedy. But the remedy does start from taking that amount of self control of looking at and saying, look, I can only control what I can control. But I can control what I can control. And I think what we can control is much broader than sometimes we think it when we’re thinking out of our comfort addiction. We look at things that are uncomfortable to us. And we say I’m just simply not even going I can’t do that. I can’t I can’t, I can’t. And I want to change the way people think about it and look at it and say, well, let’s let’s talk this through a little bit who’s saying you can’t, because more often than not, it’s your own desire for comfort. That’s that’s putting that limitation on what you’re going to accomplish in your life.
David Ralph [51:00]
Just before we put you on the Sermon on the mic, and we send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. Where can you see yourself being it by the time you’re 60? What what things are scaring you at the moment, but you just know there’s something that you need to conquer and move on. Where’s Jeff, you’re going to end up?
Jeff Shore [51:21]
Well, that’s a that’s a? That’s a great question. And you’re asking for a peek behind the curtain there, my friend and
they got it, they got to decide how far to open it. So yeah, you know what, I think, look, I am a sales junkie, I love the sales process. Because I’ve just I it’s so psychological, I love to learn the way that people think. But I think you know, for me more and more, I really fancy the idea of working with people who deeply desired to demolish the discomforts in all areas of their life. And I’ll always be involved in the sales business, and I really, really enjoy that. But I really just love the storeys of people who, who, who grapple with long held discomforts, and systematically build the boldest muscle in order to dismantle those. So you know, I have, you know, when I’m looking at, at my goals, when I’m looking at where I want to be, you know, I’ve got actually two mastermind groups that I run right now. But the next one will be on a, on a much deeper level, I could, I could picture a a four day conference to bring people together, who want to just line up every area of their life, go on a journey to try and first identify and then dismantle their discomforts and come out of there feeling like they’re, they’re just so much stronger and well prepared with a solid game plan to try and move that forward. So that’s just one little peek. But more than anything else, the passion continues to grow, to help people to dismantle their comfort, addiction. Wish you success with that.
David Ralph [52:54]
Now, let’s see what the young Jeff shore would have for because this, I’m going to send you back in time now. And if you could go back in time and have a one on one with your younger self, what age of gesture would you choose? Would it be the five year old lemonade store guy? Would it be the slightly older wondering magic tricks if he’s dead? Or would it be somebody who was just about to hit his big dot and move on to he’s, he’s future, so I’m going to play the tune. And when it fades out, you’re up, and this is the Sermon on the mic.
Unknown Speaker [53:27]
We go with the best of the show.
Jeff Shore [53:43]
Jeff, I want to tell you two things here. First of all, I want to talk to you in those early formative years in in late High School, and then into your early days after high school, when you made something of a wreck of your life and the life of people around you. And the piece of advice that I want to give you before you get to that stage is this, you are free to make any choices that you want. But you are not free to escape the consequences. You’re free to make any choice that you want, but you are not free to escape the consequence. And I want to tell you right now, every choice that you make, will have a consequence. And you can only control the choices, you can’t control the consequences. So I’ll just tell you, as you’re as you’re getting into these formative years, and you’re trying to figure out the human being that you will be and that the mark that you want to make on this planet, you are free to make any choice that you want, good or bad, but you’re never free to escape the consequences. And then the other thing that I want to tell you is this, you’re always going to have two routes. There’s a part of you as a young man right now that wants to move to New York and be on a stage there’s a part of you that wants to personally a career in music. There’s a part of you that wants to have more play in your life. But there’s going to be a whole world out there that saying, take a safe path. Here’s the office, here’s the title, here’s the money. here’s here’s the path, it’s laid out for you. It’s tried, it’s true, it’s proven, and it’s safe, you’re always going to have that choice. Don’t make the mistake that so many people will make of waiting too long to make the shift. Don’t live your life. with regrets. Be bold, be daring. And you can change the world.
David Ralph [55:39]
Here Here I think that is a powerful statement to end the show. I really don’t want this show to end Jeff I wanted to keep on going going going maybe we can fly over to California and have a drink with Pamela Anderson together and sort of bring it to a natural end. But for all our listeners out there that haven’t got that opportunity to fly across How can I connect with you
Jeff Shore [55:58]
the starting point is just George calm and my email address Jeff at Jeff Shore.com. So even as you’re thinking right now if you’re listening to this, and you’ve got a very specific discomfort that you’ve thought of in your life, that you want to just bounce it off of me and and maybe even if I could be so bold as to be able to hand you a couple of ideas as to where to start. That’s absolutely the resource go to Jeff George calm or shoot me an email Jeff at Jeff Shore calm. We’ve got a host of free resources. By way of video. We’ve got a whole YouTube channel and white papers. You can follow us on Twitter at Jeff shore, out our Facebook community, Jeff sure community on on Facebook, and you can sign up for a weekly email we put out every Saturday morning. It’s a video email with the new fresh insights and tidbits especially for sales professionals. It comes out every Saturday morning. But Jeff shore.com is the clearinghouse for all of that
David Ralph [56:55]
will have all those links on the show notes. And thank you so much for spending time with us today. Join Up Dots. Jeff, it’s been a brilliant conversation. Please come back again when you have more dots to join up because I believe there’s more exciting things and do come back if you do have a fight on the ice rink. I’d like to see that. I don’t know why I want to see you beat up another man. But there you go. I do believe over by joining those dots and connecting our past it is the very best chance we have to build our futures. Jeff Shore. Thank you so much.
Jeff Shore [57:24]
Thank you, sir, was my pleasure.
Outro [57:27]
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you were once to become. So he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to Join Up Dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on Join Up Dots.
