Welcome to the Steve Jobs based Join Up Dots business coaching podcast interview with Josh Haynam
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Introducing Josh Haynam
Josh Haynam is today’s guest joining us on the Join Up Dots podcast business interview.
He is a man who is thriving in the online world by getting business’s to ask the right questions.
Originally from a small rural town in central California he started his first business installing lawns on people’s yards at the age of 16.
He eventually started tinkering with and selling computers, and made his way down to Los Angeles to attend college at UCLA.
It was then that he began taking on consulting gigs building websites for small local businesses with a few of his friends.
After getting a request from one of these consulting clients to have a quiz built for his website, he had a bit of a lightbulb moment.
He is a co-founder of Interact Quiz Builder.
Joining Up The Dots To Where He Is Today
Along with his friends he spent a few weeks building this first quiz, and after that started to talk to other business owners about whether or not they’d use quizzes in their marketing efforts.
This year alone, it looks like the sacrifices required to build a business are paying off, as they have seen a 300% jump in growth and are anticipating 500% by the end of the year.
Great stuff, so are there certain quizzes that convert like gangbusters or do all types do the magic?
And why does he think that this works so well, in regards to lead captures unlike a normal tired old magnet?
Well lets find out as we bring onto the show, to joining up dots with the one and only Mr. Josh Haynam
Josh shares how he has developed a belief system that means he walks his own path in life. Strong will and firm mindset all the way.
Why the position of grand leaders in business are not sought out by the individuals themselves, but more often than not are placed there by the followers.
Why so many business’s struggle with the lack of income coming into the business. This is a phase that hinders growth for most and can often be the killer.
Why Josh believes his mindset changed forever by attending college. It wasn’t the course material but the students he studied with that made a huge change.
Connect With Josh Haynam
You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here – enjoy
Audio Transcription For Josh Haynam Interview
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. join up dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK, David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:25]
Yes, hello, a good morning, everybody who tunes in to listen to join up dots. Thank you so much for being here. And thank you for today’s guest who should have been here back in April. But I’ve just been canceling him willy nilly. You know, when you get to that period, where you feel you’re too powerful, and you can just can’t Well, it wasn’t like that. We had issues left and center. And unfortunately, they all landed when he was scheduled. So I’m delighted that he’s here, because he is a man who is thriving in the online world by getting businesses to ask the right questions. Now originally from a small rural town in Central California, he started his first big business, installing loans on people’s yards at the age of 16. And he eventually started tinkering with and selling computers like most kids do, and made his way down to Los Angeles to attend college at UCLA. It was when when he began taking on consulting gigs, building websites for small local businesses, with a few of his friends. And after getting a request from one of these consulting clients to have a quiz built for his website, a bit of a moment. Hang on. If he’s asking for this, maybe somebody else does. And he is now the co founder of interactive quiz builder. And along with his friends, he spent a few weeks building the first quiz. And after that, he started to talk to other business owners about whether or not they’d use quizzes in their marketing efforts. Now, this year alone, I think this is still current, it looks like the sacrifices required to build a business are paying off, as I’ve seen a free hundred percent jumping growth and are anticipating 500% by the end of the year. Great stuff. So are there certain quizzes that convert like gangbusters or do all types due to magic? And why does he think that this works so well in regards to lead captures, unlike a normal tired old magnet? Well, let’s find out as we bring them to the show to start join up dots with the one and only Mr. Josh Hynam. Morning, Josh, how are you, sir?
Josh Haynam [2:19]
I’m doing well. Thanks for having me. David,
David Ralph [2:20]
is great to have you here. Thank you for dragging you out of bed early in the morning for you is it?
Josh Haynam [2:27]
It is a bit early. But I’ve already been up for three hours at 7:30am. So I get up real early.
David Ralph [2:32]
You do dont you, I went through a phase of doing my back like it was a badge of honor. I could get more done. But I just felt crappy early afternoon. I just wanted to have a sleep about two. Do you have that slump?
Josh Haynam [2:46]
You know I did earlier on I had to get used to it, it took me a while to kind of adjust, I do go to sleep pretty early, about nine o’clock. So I actually get a good amount of sleep, even though I’m getting up really early. And when I didn’t do that I used to get super tired one or two in the afternoon. And I just couldn’t function. So I had to adjust. But now I love it those first three or four hours in the morning, that’s when I get all my focus work done.
David Ralph [3:09]
Can I ask you a personal question, Josh? Hopefully you will answer this. How would you get hot, sexy time if you’re going to sleep at nine o’clock at night? Most most adults just going out building up to all that time you’re going to bed the same time as my kids.
Josh Haynam [3:25]
Yeah, I mean, I kind of, you know, I have a different approach to that I am a believer and kind of, you know, don’t don’t believe in going out and doing that and just hooking up with random people. So it really doesn’t bother me. I get to do what I want to do. And I go to sleep early. And I align with people that are in that same school of thought
David Ralph [3:48]
through Jim, you know, which takes me down a totally different path than I was expecting. Obviously, we will talk about the quiz builder. But it’s that kind of mindset of I don’t care about the competition, I don’t care about what other people are doing, I’m going to live my life that way. It has that always been with you, or is that something that you’ve developed over the last few years?
Josh Haynam [4:09]
That’s certainly developed, I used to care a lot about what other people think. And I still do to some extent in terms of my image and how I’m perceived. But that’s definitely something that’s developed over the years and kind of been a trial by fire. You know, diamonds are made out of hard things type of deal. Because that’s really developed as I’ve been in business. Now I’ve been in business for, you know, almost a third more than a third of my life. And as I’ve gone through that, I really developed my own persona, and started to care a lot less about what other people think,
David Ralph [4:44]
is I am a podcaster, full time podcaster for a living is how I do it. And to be honest, I don’t have any competition. And I don’t mean that arrogantly I just don’t look at what anyone else is doing. I just do my thing and and make my living. And that’s it. Does that come with competence? Or is that sort of naivety? Should I be looking around and seeing what the world? Could I could the world be passing me by Josh, with my one focused view on life?
Josh Haynam [5:13]
I think that you shouldn’t look to what you consider to be competitors. And if you don’t consider people to be competitors, and I don’t think you should look to people that are doing the same thing you’re doing because you’re going to make the same mistakes, and you’re not going to learn that much from them. I do think you should learn from people that have kind of been there and done that, like my first one of my first companies was just interviewing entrepreneurs. And I was in college, like 19 years old, and I just emailed everybody that I could and ask them if they would give me advice. And I listened to what they had to say. And I still do this all the time. Like I’ll call up people, email, people ask for their opinions, their advice. I’ve learned a lot from doing that. So I do think that you need to pay attention to people that have done things that you want to do or that are living the way that you want to live. But you shouldn’t look around other people that are trying to do what you’re trying to do. Because odds are you’re just going through the same struggles,
David Ralph [6:09]
you should stretch yourself by pulling away from the crowd.
Josh Haynam [6:13]
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think you should, you should, you’re not necessarily even pull away from the crowd like you should, you should listen to people that you respect and people that you want to emulate the way they’re living. So in that regard, you should kind of be part of the crowd. But the crowd that you think is right, the crowd that you you know, that aligns with your beliefs that aligns with the way that you want to live your life, the things that you want to achieve, go to that crowd, find your people, don’t try to please the general populace, because it’s never going to work
David Ralph [6:50]
out well. What do you think about this train of thought, I’m big on this, but it’s not about joining the establishment, it’s about making your own a step. Actually, you being the leader. And ultimately, once you start doing well, it’s difficult in the early days, but you build up some momentum, you start to build your own community. And is that a good way to think that you shouldn’t be focused on trying to integrate into what’s already there, but instead making your own thing?
Unknown Speaker [7:21]
I do believe in building your own community, that’s one of the huge things that we do at our company is build up our network, we have like a massive network of people that are partnered with us. And I take that super seriously. And it’s a huge is what I spend a lot of my time doing, we have people to do a full time, all that kind of stuff. But the one part that I would disagree with there is that you, as the founder should not be the leader of that group. I was actually out for beers with one of my co workers yesterday. And we were talking about the business and just how amazing is to be working here. And I was like, Yeah, I feel like it’s amazing to be working here. Yes, I started this, but at the same time, I kind of see it from the outside, like, this is an amazing thing that’s happening, I get to be part of it. But it’s no in no way is it me, like I’m not the figurehead. I’m not the one that everybody looks to. I’m not this, you know, put up on a pedestal, I’m simply part of this building of a community building of this, this company, this thing, and that feels so much better, there’s so much less pressure, because you don’t always have to be on the spot, as like this perfect person or, you know, representing everything that has to do with your company. So that’s the way I think about it.
David Ralph [8:36]
But But isn’t there a sort of a personal brand, a strong purpose? You know, if you think of Apple you think Steve Jobs, if you think virgin Richard Branson, you know, you can go across all these companies, and there is a really strong character at the fourth one sort of leading the way and people like that they like that thought of having that person, almost looking at exactly the same as I do the day before being the being the figurehead.
Josh Haynam [9:02]
I think that people put that on those founders, I’ve read the stories of Steve Jobs, and Howard Schultz from Starbucks, and Jeff Bezos, from Amazon and a bunch of other founders. I don’t think any of them intend to put themselves up on a pedestal and be this this grand leader, I think people make that up. And yeah, you do have to be a little crazy and a little eccentric to start a company because it’s just crazy. Like it takes 10 1520 I read the story of Walmart, it took them 25 years to start the first Walmart, like, it’s crazy, like, you know, normal type of person is going to do it. So you’re gonna be a little odd. And I think people latch on to that, and make the figurehead seem like some amazing like person who’s got it all figured out. But in reality, they’re probably still just tinkering. Even when that companies really large, they’re just trying to figure it out. And, you know, ideally, they’re getting a lot of good advice. I always try to get good advice. So I think that’s kind of a construct of society, rather than what those people meant to do.
David Ralph [10:08]
Now interact quiz builder, then. So it’s a stimulating environment to work in, you think it’s amazing. has it taken you by surprise, when you look at it now? Is it kind of the hell this this is this is, you know, great, it’s magical. I never thought it would go to where it’s going.
Josh Haynam [10:28]
You know, I thought that it would be a big thing. I always believed that when I was starting at those kind of what carried me through to some extent, and I have mixed feelings about, you know, latching on to feeling like your company has to be successful at some point. But I always believed that it would be. But it is weird now to see the types of people that come to work with us to see the company growing. Despite me, sometimes, you know, I’ll make bad decisions or do things that are dumb or don’t have. And it still grows, we have this amazing team that works on it, we have this crazy ecosystem of partners. And it’s just growing and growing and growing. And it’s at just a huge scale now that I never really imagined being at I never really thought about being in this place. So it’s super differently. The biggest thing is just the people that want to work with us and approach us, as opposed to at the beginning, when you’re just trying to get anybody to pay attention. I think that’s really the the shift that is still wild to me. And I don’t I don’t think I’ll ever really get used to that.
David Ralph [11:40]
This is what has caused your business to sort of grow. Because, for example, on my website, I’ve got a WordPress plugin called survey slam, and I just slammed it on and it does what it needs to do. What’s made your company grow to a point where you need employees. It’s not just an app that people buy time and time and time again.
Josh Haynam [12:03]
Yeah, so the difference with what we do is that interact is a quiz builder. Yeah, but there’s much more old school than that. Really, what it is, is, it allows you to start a conversation with the people that are on your website. And like I said, I was reading Howard Schultz book, I love the idea of like a coffee shop and just the environment that a coffee shop brings. Imagine walking into a coffee shop, and you’re trying to decide what kind of beans you want to buy. And the person who’s working there is probably going to ask you questions about you know, what’s your morning routine? Like? How early Do you get up? You know, how do you make your coffee? Do you do pour over? Or do you do your standard drip machine? Like how do you make it you know, what do you eat for breakfast, all that type of stuff. You know, do you like more spicy foods or tepid foods to determine you know, how strong your coffee should be? All these types of things. So you’re going to have this interaction with that barista, and then they’re going to say, Here’s like the right beans that you should buy 90% of the time, you’re going to buy them because of course, like that’s the right beans for you. You can reconstruct that whole experience using a quiz. And we actually have several large coffee companies doing that, using our platform now to help you determine what type of beans are best for you. And you can do the same thing with really anything, whether it’s clothing, or it’s finding the right online course have the right blog posts read or the right advice with your you know, sales difficulties, or what type of it software, you should buy all these types of things, you can have a conversation using one of these interactive quizzes. And that’s why it’s such a big deal. It’s not just here’s a survey, tell us how we’re doing. It’s let’s let’s talk, let’s figure out what’s right for you. And then I’m going to, you know, give you this recommendation. And then of course, like that’s the right thing for you. So if you don’t even know now, you’re probably going to save it and buy it later. Because no one else is taking that time to tell you the right thing to do. So that’s why it’s taken off. And it’s just so different than every other form of marketing, where it’s just like, bye, bye bye. Like, here’s why you should buy it. Here’s all these psychological hacks. In reality, you’re just asking questions and listening and paying attention to people. And that’s just like, natural human thing.
David Ralph [14:29]
So it’s not a give us your email address. That’s what we want, give us the email address, and then we can build our list is far more serotonin is allowing the customer, the consumer, actually to develop the company, they like it, but they think oh, yeah, wouldn’t it be nice if we could do that? You get enough of those comments, and then you’d be a fool as a leader of a company not to look at that and go, Blimey, I think I think they’re right here.
Josh Haynam [14:55]
Right, yeah, it’s just it’s letting people you know, express their feelings. They’re their doubts, their frustrations. And based on that, then you can you can build what you have, you can give them the right recommendations, the right products, all that kind of stuff. And you’re not just saying, here’s my thing, like buy it, you’re actually paying attention. And that’s, that’s something that we just are so bad at is paying attention and just being present and listening to people. And really the the basis of what we do interact is just giving people a tool where they can pay attention using an online quiz format. And that’s, that’s just light years ahead of what’s happening right now.
David Ralph [15:38]
So once again, sort of circling back to the previous question, why? Why is your company growing and actually needs employees and that, where companies can do the same by just getting a plugin or some kind of app?
Josh Haynam [15:54]
I think it’s really about the ease of use. So people want to do stuff like this, they interest but when you get down to the details of it, it you hit the reality that you have to write questions, you have to write questions that people are going to answer, you have to write outcomes, you have to like write the whole thing that explains your personality is this or like your scores this? So you
David Ralph [16:17]
can act up? And do you jumping in you do this for the company do you sort of marketing built in.
Josh Haynam [16:22]
So we have teams that build templates, and everything’s based on templates. So we’ve got several hundred of them. And then we actually have a quiz that helps you find the right template that you can use for your brand. And then we take that difficulty out of it. And then we do have lead generation built into the quizzes. And we take that difficulty out of it. Because we have native native integrations with 17, email marketing programs, so you can just sign in connected to your list. So we have all these things done for you. And so the process is down two hours, sometimes less than an hour to get your own thing up and running. So I really just think it’s an efficiency thing, because you look around, there are tons of plugins for surveys and quizzes that have millions of downloads and installs. But odds are people never actually follow through and use them. Because you have to think about all these things. And it’s just a huge undertaking. So our whole philosophy and theory is like, let’s remove all the difficulty out of doing this. Because the concept does work. It’s very effective. But there’s so many roadblocks, that people don’t actually get to using it. So let’s just remove those roadblocks one at a time, build this platform. And as we’ve done that the more roadblocks we’ve built, the more the snowball has started to fall down the hill. And it’s just taken off more and more and more. Every time we make it easier for people to do this, we see a jump in our usage. So I think that’s really it is that it’s always been something people have wanted to do. It’s just been too difficult. And all we’re doing is removing the difficulties. Yeah, I
David Ralph [18:08]
can see that totally. Now you explain it that way. Because I know that, you know, when I think of the quiz, first of all, is probably like a pop quiz. And it’s a series of questions series of answers, that’s fine. But when you’re getting into variations, and by answering this question, they might be getting bad or that that’s, that’s complicated. And you literally end up shooting yourself, because there’s so many different variations and versions and this going off here and going off air. How do you how do you manage Batman? How do you manage that? How do you get it all spread out in front of you? So that you can go right question one sees answer, bear, that means that this one’s going to happen over here. How does that work?
Josh Haynam [18:49]
Yeah, so we have a map that you can literally just drag questions on to so know, you have question one that’s like, you know, what’s your age? And then question two is different depending on your age. So then you would drag in one question for the younger folks. And one question for the older folks. And you’d create branches off of it. So it’s all super visual, like you’re just dragging stuff onto a map, and you’re making a map of your quiz. And that makes sense to people like you can see the whole flow of it, you’re not having to think about like, oh, what, like this goes to this question goes this question no, as like complicated, so we really just tried to lay it out. And you know, I’ve always been a visual person, our engineers are very visual. And so as we build these products, it’s all just like, shown to you. So you can see what’s happening it on the guest on to try to, like write it all out and all that kind of stuff. So that’s kind of, you know, just in my law saying is like, we’re we’re not doing anything fancy. We’re just making it easy to do what people already want to do. But let’s
David Ralph [19:51]
play some words now. And then let’s delve back in to your journey. And these are the words, Oprah Winfrey,
Oprah Winfrey [19:58]
the way through the chat is to get still and ask yourself, what is the next right move? not think about, Oh, I got all of this. What is the next right move. And then from that space, make the next right move, and the next right move, and not to be overwhelmed by it. Because you know, your life is bigger than that one moment, you know, you’re not defined by what somebody says, is a failure for you. Because failure is just there to point you in a different direction.
David Ralph [20:29]
Now, when you look back, Josh, on the last few years of internet quiz builder, obviously, it’s now a thing, it’s a sexy thing. People can see it and people are going Oh, yeah, let’s jump over there. But there’s there’s an ugly time in all businesses. There’s that time when you think I know what I want to do. But I don’t know how to do it, or I haven’t got the money to invest into it. How did you actually sort of get that up and running? Because I know that’s a stumbling block. But so many of our listeners have they have this idea. But they just haven’t got the knowledge, the experience to actually stop building it.
Josh Haynam [21:02]
Yeah, so we just started, and my co founders, the technical one, so big props to him for figuring out how to build it, we didn’t know how to build it. So we had the idea to make interact with builder after a client and requested a quiz, like you’re saying in the intro. And he literally learned programming while on vacation and built the first version in Hawaii, and put it up, it was terrible. Nothing really worked, right? You couldn’t log in, people would make a quiz, and then it would disappear, all that kind of stuff. But it’s really just you just start like there’s no tricks, there’s no gimmicks, you can’t learn any of this stuff. There’s no school for it, I we both went to UCLA and learned nothing about how to start a company. It’s just experience, it’s just a matter of jumping in starting and trying it. And it was the same on the marketing and sales side. I tried to so many things that didn’t work and put in so much effort that just went nowhere. And it was all wasted in some sense. But also learning because you try one thing, it doesn’t work, you try the next thing, it doesn’t work. And you just keep trying and retry it long enough and hard enough, you’ll you’ll get somewhere. And then the question becomes Do you want to keep trying? Because there’s a lot of sacrifices you have to make along the way, is specially if it doesn’t start working, you have to start to you know, sacrifice personally and financially and all that kind of stuff. Because you have to make space for that experimentation. So that’s really it. There’s nothing fancy or there’s no tricks or gimmicks. It’s literally just how long can you keep trying and learn from your failures and move forward?
David Ralph [22:49]
And has it taken you by surprise? Because it certainly has me and I talked about this a lot. How much investment goes into something that looks like it should be quite cheap. Now I launched the podcast and yeah, people can launch a podcast easily no problem at all hundred dollars you up and running. But once it starts growing into something, and you it just costs a lot of money, and I’ve had many months where more money was going out and coming in as that been similar to you have you had those crunch times when you think to yourself, we need to get some money in guys, because otherwise we’re stagnating here.
Josh Haynam [23:25]
Yeah, and I think the money always comes last. So you start to do things, right, you start to get momentum, you start to get traffic to your website, you start to get people using the product, you have all these things and all those things take inordinate amounts of effort, just a massive amount, and the money’s not coming, the money’s not coming, the money’s not coming, then you have to keep going and going and going. And then the money comes last. So like for us, we have a freemium model. people sign up for free, they start using the product, they have a billion questions, we have to help them them, we have to keep helping them. And then three or four months later, they start paying. And so you have to put in all that effort, while you’re not getting paid. until those people are happy with the product and they upgrade and they start paying. And that’s that’s just a microcosm on a macro scale. The business is the same way. As you’re building it, you’re starting with the first version, we spent a year building before anybody paid, we spent three or four years building before we became really profitable at all, in the sense of like, being able to have a real salary. And so everything is just delayed, the money always comes last.
David Ralph [24:44]
And is it is it worth it? Because you get to a point now, when I was talking to another guy who creates multimillion pound businesses, and I said to him, you know, we all start with this belief that we can do this. But then it gets to a point when you’re actually responsible for people’s lives, livelihoods and putting food on their plates. And they are your employees. Is it worth it? Is it worth going through that? Or in hindsight? Is it better to keep things lean?
Josh Haynam [25:13]
In terms of hiring specifically, you mean? Yeah, yeah.
I think hiring is the best and worst thing about starting a company. So we hired several people in the beginning, that didn’t work because we were doing the wrong strategies, and I hired them to do things that just didn’t work. And that was the worst thing about this company, it was having to let them go. The best thing about this company has been hiring people who are doing strategies, and then building on strategies and making things their own, and now, you know, have ownership over parts of our business. And they just handle everything, and they’re doing it, you know, amazingly well, and they’ve taken it to new heights, that’s the best thing. So it’s the best in the worst I, as I progressed over time, I just realized that things are going to go wrong. And if you worry about it all the time, you’re just going to run yourself into the ground. And so you have to disconnect, not in like a psychopath type of way. But in like, you know, I know, I have no control over whether this is going to work out or not. And at the end of the day, I’m doing right by everybody to the best of my abilities. But I really don’t have control over whether this goes well or doesn’t go well. And you know, everything fails, we have to let everybody go. That’s a possibility that definitely could happen. And so you just can’t get fixated on it.
David Ralph [26:46]
So basically, worst case scenarios, they never as bad or they we we we lay there in the middle of the night clutching our pillows thinking, oh my god, what if this happens? More often than not? When it does happen? you kind of think, Okay, what do I do? And I at times about aim changes, I thought, but I never turned out to be going changes. In words of elton john, I’m still standing. And and you move on, don’t you?
Josh Haynam [27:11]
Yeah, I think for me, the the struggle is in not knowing what’s going to happen. So once I know what’s going to happen, even if it’s really bad, like we’ve had multiple times where things have just gotten really bad. And once I know what the outcome is, and what I need to do, I’m fine. It’s in the not knowing that it’s it’s very difficult. And that’s something that I really had to focus on and really practice being okay with not knowing. And it’s come through a lot of like meditative practices and prayer and that kind of stuff. And that that stuff really hard. Because when you don’t know, like, maybe this thing’s gonna happen, or businesses just gone next week. That’s real scary. Once you know the outcome, like, okay, we have to do XYZ to save it, that’s fine. You can just go into like builder, you know, run through walls mode and figure it out. But it’s those moments where you don’t know. And that happens all the time when you’re running a small company, especially as you’re growing and things are crazy and changing. So that’s that’s the part that’s tough. The Dalai
David Ralph [28:23]
Lama says, if it’s something you can do something about a worry. And if it’s something you can’t do anything about, don’t worry. And he’s the kind of advice but I love but I’d also like to punch him in the face for saying it because I can’t get to that point. I can’t I’m like you. I worry about stuff that I’ve got no control on. It makes no sense. It makes no sense. As I’m saying it hint Now, what is the point in worrying about something you got no control on? But they had a worse ones.
Josh Haynam [28:53]
Yeah, and I’ve started practicing because it’s like, it’s it’s like a skill, like anything else. Right? Like Dalai Lama spent his whole life practicing this. And so doing a lot of centering prayer and meditation. And basically the, the way you do it is you get to a place where you’re observing your thoughts, you’re observing your worries. And the analogy is like, your thoughts are barges on a river, and they’re just going by and you’re watching them, you’re not jumping on the barge and floating down the river and, you know, going through the rapids like you would, if you are latching on to those worries, you simply sitting aside, and observing them and letting them pass. And that’s been a crazy game changer for me, because it is a practice. And as you practice it, you get better at doing it. And when it’s intentional, and you’re you know, in a dark place, and there’s nothing really happening, when you’re practicing, that’s easy. But as it starts to happen in your real life, you start to have flashbacks to like, Okay, this crazy things happening. Super freaked out right now. But I’m just gonna throw it on a barge and let it float away. There’s, there’s nothing I can do about it. And even if there is something I can do about it, worrying about, it’s not going to help me do the thing. So that’s, that’s been big, like, really big for me is, is that practice of just letting those thoughts go. And then being able to be present in the moment, focusing on what I need to focus on, and not getting caught up in? Whatever is happening in my mind.
David Ralph [30:32]
Yeah, it’s the it’s the place to be, but um, I I struggle with it, I struggle with it. looking looking at the intro, as he was talking, I was going up and down it. And you went to Los Angeles to attend college at UCLA? How much is that really had anything to do with where you are? Now? I’m always intrigued by this because I got to college. And to be honest, not a blind bit of what I learned I ever used at all now. Does it work? Or have you learned more from what you’ve done? Spin.
Josh Haynam [31:02]
So in terms of pure curriculum, none of that was helpful. But I came from a very small town about 70,000 people dispersed is a farm farm country farm community. And I thought, when I was at the end of college, that were at the end of high school, that what I was doing, which was like buying and selling laptops, and making good money was about as as, as big as it gets, like that was that was the end. And that’s the mindset that I got kind of almost almost stuck in, and I almost decided not to go to college and just keep doing that. Then I get to LA and meet all these people see all these opportunities, and the world was just open to me. They had this this new view on what was possible, met some just amazing people, you know, pilots, and PhDs and actors. And there’s all these crazy smart people that are doing all sorts of different things. And they have different backgrounds and different views on life. And that was the big thing that changed my perspective on things. It wasn’t so much like being in class. And so I think college is incredible, not necessarily because you’re going to learn some crazy breakthrough thing in a class of 300 people, but because of just what you’re going to be exposed to, and the opportunities you’re going to see, and the way it’s going to change your mindset from what you grew up with.
David Ralph [32:37]
And what about now, if you skipped back, and you went straight to now could you have done that? Would that been too much of a step? Did you need that middle ground?
Josh Haynam [32:48]
I think I’ve needed to all of it. You know, the the college, the after college, all of its been pivotal to you know, my journey and where I’m at now. And I’m still on the path. Certainly still working. But it’s all been really important. And yet, there’s no way I could have just jumped. I was an idiot in high school and died knew everything. So it we all were joy we all
David Ralph [33:15]
Josh Haynam [33:18]
right. Yeah. And then it’s like, how do you become not an idiot, like, you get knocked down, you realize what’s what’s really real, you have those difficult moments, you get backed up against the wall, you discover you know who you are and what you believe, and what’s important to you. And that’s, that’s how you stop being an idiot.
David Ralph [33:40]
I know, I don’t actually agree with that. I think you are always an idiot, all the way through your life. It’s just that some of the things you’ve screwed up on, you’re gonna be an idiot if you do them again. But you’re going to make mistakes all the way through your life, you’re going to look an idiot all the way through everything on your deathbed, you’re going to look at media on you. You can’t You can’t escape from that.
Josh Haynam [34:00]
Right. But that’s that’s a different definition of idiot that I have. My definition of video is thinking that you know it all I think you’re constantly going to make mistakes. But as you become less of an idiot, you realize, like, I am an idiot, and I’m going to make mistakes. I don’t know, I want to thing I don’t have it figured out like Judge not, you know, lest you be judged type of thing. Like you, you don’t know things. And that changes your way of seeing the world, your way of seeing other people, the way that you’re empathetic towards people your understanding, you know, you’re not judgmental, you’re accepting all that kind of stuff. I think that’s what what I would define as being an idiot is thinking that you’ve got your view, and that’s the right one.
David Ralph [34:45]
Are you a special breed? Just somebody that can take an idea and bring it to fruition? Do you think that the majority of people nowadays with the ability to connect on the internet network, an investment from angel investors is what you’re doing possible for everyone? Or would you say no, actually, I know, I may not be the genius, but you need to be a certain breed.
Josh Haynam [35:13]
I think it’s possible for everybody, but you have to have motivation. And motivation can come from lots of different places. But it takes a special breed of being motivated to do this type of thing. And so that’s something that’s happened to me. And I got it not necessarily by choice. And I’ve seen people that do get it by choice. Sometimes they grow into it. Sometimes it’s from the upbringing, sometimes it’s from, you know, a traumatic event, but you have to get your drive and your motivation from somewhere. And I think everybody’s capable of a lot. But it really comes down too. what’s what’s your backbone? Like? What are you leaning up against when, you know, your 234 years? And and it’s not going? Well, that’s, that’s what I think is the difference.
David Ralph [36:14]
You have to have somebody working with you as well, you’ve got your partner, when you say he’s the techie guy, do you have to have somebody that can complement your weaknesses and strengthen your strengths? Or is it kind of reasonably doable to just do everything yourself?
Josh Haynam [36:33]
I don’t think anything is doable yourself in any part of life. So yeah, absolutely. You can’t go it alone. That’s not a real thing. You know, everybody that’s done anything has people and their faith and that kind of stuff. And if somebody tells you that they are doing everything on their own, either they’re going to be an incredibly lonely person. Or they’re lying to and probably the line do you part.
David Ralph [37:02]
I’m doing everything on my own Josh. Everything on my own. I don’t have anyone helping me at all. Just systems.
Josh Haynam [37:09]
Yeah, what do you have a family idea, friends?
David Ralph [37:12]
Oh, why? Yeah. Well, I try not to have friends. But the family I can’t get away from Yeah, they are. They are there you go. Yes. There
Josh Haynam [37:19]
you go. That’s my backbone.
David Ralph [37:21]
Yeah. But how much support did he give you? How much does family How much do your family give you? Did I understand what you’re going through? Or did they kind of go Josh, we don’t really know what you’re talking about. Just just, you know, just be who you used to be.
Josh Haynam [37:35]
I think everybody has a different way of being supportive, you know, family can help you through tough times can, you know, coerce you into going out for drinks when you don’t want to, because you’ve been working for six months straight. You know, they can be there when you’re having a hard day. And you know, same with friends and coworkers. You know, people people can pick you up when you’re down. And you know, the there’s like the analogy, like a three, a three cord rope can’t be broken. Like, you have three ropes, all, you know, intertwined, you’re not going to break it, but one strand, you can break. And definitely buy into that definitely buy into the notion that you can get broken pretty easily, if it’s just you. But you start to add, you know, good people on you start to add people that you you trust and that know what you’re going through, and you’re open with them. That’s what’s going to get you through.
David Ralph [38:37]
Well, we’ve heard his name mentioned on the show previously, so let’s hit actually hear the words from the man himself. This is the speech, the famous speech is pretty famous still himself, Steve Jobs,
Steve Jobs [38:47]
of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards, 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leaves you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [39:23]
Are you off the path? Or will you on the path that you always will on Josh?
Josh Haynam [39:29]
I think I didn’t really know what the path was. lifespan a bit nuts and has really been a zigzag. And I never really knew what the path was going to be. I think I’ve had influences that have made me want to be successful and want to be rich. And those are things that I’ve worked towards. But as I’ve grown, I’ve actually realized that there’s not much in that. So I’ve had to rethink what the path is. And that’s kind of my answer is I’m on that path, but also sort of outside of it looking at myself on that path.
David Ralph [40:15]
And when you look back on that path is a big story a big moment in your life that really, really started to bring everything together for you.
Josh Haynam [40:26]
You know, I don’t think there is I think it’s been a series of things that have happened, influences moments, things that have come together. But I don’t think there was a moment where it was like, now it’s all good. And even now, I don’t think there’s any, anything that makes me think like, Oh, it’s all good. Like, it’s all figured out. I think it’s all a process. It’s a process forever. I think anybody that tells you they’re like, at a spot where they’ve got it all figured out is definitely full of it. So it’s it’s all it’s all along a process and you’re constantly learning and growing. But I don’t think there is a moment and I also can’t think that’s kind of a played up thing, by media and by movies and stories that make you think, oh, you’re going to have this moment, and then everything’s gonna be great. It’s all going to just tie together. There’s lots of those moments where I look back and like, oh, wow, okay, that’s amazing that things have worked out this way. But there’s not one in particular, where you’re like, oh, everything’s perfect now.
David Ralph [41:31]
So good, good, totally different spin. Because I did, I can see those little dots leading up to the big one. But when the big one hit, it was like yesterday, I can just see it, I can feel it, I can remember how the energy just left me, like I knew I was at the end, it was the next part of my life. It was quite quite defining to me. So interesting to hear a different point of view on that. And it’s going to be interesting to hear your point of view, when we send you back in time. This is the part of the show when we send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger version. And if you could go back in time and speak to the young Josh, what age would you choose? And what advice would you give him? Well, we’re going to play the music, and we’re gonna find out. Here we go, this man on the mic. We go
Unknown Speaker [42:21]
with the best.
Josh Haynam [42:39]
So I’m going to go back to 1415 year old Josh somewhere in there. That was the age when things started to get crazy in my life. And that chaos drove me to start my company. At that point, I was 15 and a half years old, I started my first company. And it’s been all just over 10 years from there. Now, and I’ve devoted my entire life to starting companies building companies from that point, I think what I would say is that it’s not wrong to choose the path where you’re building something, you do have that, that innate desire, even when you were young, you love building things all the time tree forts and sand castles and teeter totters and bike jumps and all sorts of crazy stuff. That was that’s something that that you do actually love. But you’re going to get caught up in it, you’re going to get caught up in the need to be successful to need to make this thing work the need to appear successful. And you’re going to have to let that go. And you’re going to have to focus on what you like doing. And the things that really do bring you joy and the people that bring you joy. Now put those first, rather than putting the success first and making that an idol. And if you do that, you’ll probably end up in the same place, if not better, but the path along the way is going to be so much more enjoyable. You’re going to value your connection so much more. And you’re not going to feel lonely in that building time. So that is what I would say. You don’t
David Ralph [44:25]
believe listeners out there. What’s the number one best way that our audience can connect with you?
Josh Haynam [44:31]
Yeah, probably on LinkedIn, you can just search for Josh Haynam. There’s only one Josh Haynam in the world. So you’ll find me on LinkedIn, Twitter. Those are my big ones.
David Ralph [44:41]
It’s quite amazing, isn’t it? That is the only one in the world because it doesn’t look like an overly unusual name.
Josh Haynam [44:46]
Right? Yeah, it was like it’s a made up name from Ellis Island when my ancestors emigrated to the US. And so there’s only like 20 something people named him at all. And then obviously, there’s no other judges. Wow.
David Ralph [45:02]
Wow. Really? Well, thank you so much for spending time with us today, joining up those dots. And, as always, please come back again, when you have more dots to join up. Because I do believe that by joining those dots, and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Josh, thank you so much.
Josh Haynam [45:18]
Yeah, Thanks, David.
David Ralph [45:22]
So Mr. Josh Haynam, the only just calling them in the world has created the interact quiz builder. And believe me, if you think you can do it yourself, I done this kind of thing. It blows your mind. It really does this so many variation. I didn’t quite grasp what he had at the beginning. But even when he started talking, I was thinking, yeah, I can see why this is this is going gangbusters, I can see this. There’s a power, there’s an ease, but there’s a huge powerful connection with the consumer to get this kind of information out to people. Really, really good stuff. So as always, as always, I say, if anybody’s got any questions about that show, drop us a line, just come over to join up dots and click on Connect. And we will respond directly to you. But even better than that, let’s see you next time. She’ll wait.
Josh Haynam [46:13]
You’re going to be there. Please
David Ralph [46:14]
don’t go on and bring bring a couple of your mates as well.
Josh Haynam [46:17]
See you later. Bye bye.
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you are wants to become so he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to join up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on join up dots.