Welcome to the Steve Jobs based Join Up Dots Podcast Interview with Lauren Juliff
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Introducing Lauren Juliff
Lauren Juliff is today’s guest, joining us on the Join Up Dots Podcast interview.
She is a lady who from the first family vacations wanted to be free.
Always the child kicking up a fuss when her parents told her it was time to go home.
She was always the child literally counting off the days until holidays came round again.
So its with little surprise that upon reaching adulthood, that freedom of spirit has overtaken her and she has undertaken a series of footsteps in the unknown.
Never Ending Footsteps in fact, which is the name of Laurens blog, and the perfect description of her life in distant shores.
Starting the dream in 2006, it took her five years of extreme effort, working three jobs, overcoming a series of anxiety disorders, and saving everything she could, to ensure that her dream of travel could be fulfilled.
How The Dots Joined Up For Lauren
And on the 17th July 2011, she departed whilst crying like a baby.
Now nearly three years later as her footsteps are able to be traced across 45 countries, and five continents, it seems she has no real desire to return to England and settle back into a life of normal domesticity.
And why should she, since she has now found a way of funding her adventures, by blogging, writing, and other online activities too.
Lauren Juliff, has become a digital nomad, and is loving every second of her life away from the rain and the cold.
If this seems the perfect life, then think again, as with all things that seem an instant success, there are a collection of stumbles, falls, financial mistakes and hardships that would make many people return to the safety of their home.
But today’s guest is made of sterner stuff than that, and is a perfect guest for a show like Join Up Dots.
Well let’s bring onto the show to start joining up dots, as we discuss the words of Steve Jobs with the one and only Lauren Juliff
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Lauren Juliff such as:
How the friends she had as a teenager were so unsupportive to her dreams.
She had to make the decision to cut them off from her life…and what a great decision this was!
She couldn’t get on a bus due to the fear that her mind had built up to root her to the spot and stop her dreams!
Why she gets emails from across the globe from complete strangers, supporting her, caring for her, or just telling her how they love her work….very different from her teenage friends would have done!
How she would wrap herself in jumpers and duvets when the temperature was as low as -2 to save money
How her boyfriend broke up with her just before they were about to set out on her travels, and although heart broken she now sees this as the making of her and a great thing!
How To Connect With Lauren Juliff
If you enjoyed this episode of Join Up Dots then why not listen to some of our favourite podcast episodes such as JB Glossinger, Cameron Brown, or the amazing Alfie Best
Or if you prefer just pop over to our podcast archive for thousands of amazing episodes to choose from.
Audio Transcription Of Lauren Juliff Interview
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK, David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:26]
Good morning, everybody. How are we I’ve been a bit ashamed by the introduction, actually, at the back of his garden, because I’m speaking to a lady today who, over the last five or six months I have been tracking, I have been stalking her virtually across the world to try to get her on the show. And she she’s a bit further than the back of a guard. And she’s actually in Viet Nam at the moment. So it’s going to be an amazing conversation, especially for the people out there. But have got that urge with a bit of a travel and don’t really know you know, the pitfalls, the stumbles the successes, or just financially how to actually pull it off. So this lady is going to give us a blueprint to travel. And I’m sure all of us we’re going to be quitting our jobs, divorcing our wives and steaming across the world to Vietnam because it’s our birthday coming up soon. So we can all meet in a bar that be quite nice. Right? Today’s guest has from her first family vacations wanted to be free. She was always the child kicking up a bus when our parents told her it was time to go home. And she was always the child literally counting of the days until holidays came around again. So it’s with little surprise upon reaching adulthood, that freedom of spirit has overtaken her, and she has undertaken a series of footsteps in the unknown, never ending footsteps, in fact, which is the name of a blog, and the perfect description of her life in distant shores. Starting the dream in 2006. It took a five years of extreme effort, working three jobs overcoming a series of anxiety disorders, and saving everything she could to ensure that her dream of travel could be for build. And on the 17th of July 2011 she departed whilst crying like a baby poor her. And now nearly three years later, as a footsteps are able to be traced across 45 countries and five continents. It seems she has no real desire to return to England and settle back into a normal life. And why should she since she has now found a way of funding her adventures by blogging, writing and other online activities to she’s become a digital nomad. And he’s loving every second of her life away from the rain and the cold. And as I’m recording this today, it is pouring down so she’s made the right decision. If this seems the perfect life and think again, as we’ve all things that seemed an instant success, to a collection of stumbles, falls financial mistakes and hardships that would make many people return to the safety of their home. But today’s guest is made of sterner stuff in that and is a perfect guest for a show like Join Up Dots. So let’s introduce to you the one and only English lady to which I love loving Julie, how are you today, Lauren?
Lauren Juliff [3:05]
Hi, I’m great. Thanks. Thank you for the wonderful introduction.
David Ralph [3:08]
You have got a life but I envy I’m going to cut to the chase as I’m reading that. And I am sitting at the back of my garden. I think to myself, this is this is a life that is simply a wow, you can go anywhere you want. Within reason. You’ve got your connectivity back to home through your laptop and and you are funding yourself. Does it blow your mind as you’re sitting there in Vietnam? A million miles away from your sort of previous life I suppose in England, do you go? Oh my god, how did this really happen?
Lauren Juliff [3:44]
Yes, all the time. I seem to have at least one moment every week where I’m just thinking, oh my god, this is the life that I always wanted, but never thought was actually possible. I know that when I first left England, I i thought that i be travelling for a year. And then I’d run out of money and come home. And the thought that I could have continued I’ve been going for three years now. So the thought that I could have travelled the three years and still be funding my adventures would have blown my mind.
David Ralph [4:15]
When I think it blows everyone’s mind to be honest. Because I go away on a two week family holiday to Spain, it cost me a fortune. Just just eating. I went on holiday a couple of years ago. And I was so shocked by the exchange rate. I actually survived on toast for two weeks because I wouldn’t eat anything. I’m on my wife got so angry with me that she said, You are ruining the holiday. And I’m saying no, no, you look can eat whatever you want. I will pay for it. But I can’t justify eight quid for a sandwich. I am not paying it. And so the next time we went she said to me, don’t ever do that, again, you are not surviving on toast and I went to Taiwan. So I bought two boxes of Weetabix. And I lived on that for two weeks as well. So I’m, I can’t imagine how you can do that. And so I’m sure the listeners are the same. How can you find yourself as a digital nomad nowadays?
Lauren Juliff [5:10]
Well, it comes from a few different sources, and I work online so I can work from anywhere that has an internet connexion. And most of my money comes from neverending footsteps, my travel blog. And but it also comes from several other sources. So freelance travel writing, and I use neverending footsteps as a portfolio to find freelance writing jobs. And there’s a couple of editing jobs that I do as well occasionally are sour some of my photos I take, and it’s just kind of a mixture of lots of different odd jobs that I pushed together to find a way to fund it.
David Ralph [5:49]
And so are you a lady with hustle muscle? Do you do go out every day you thinking? How can I make that into money? How can I turn that into income? Or is it something now but as as bought in sort of natural pattern for you.
Lauren Juliff [6:03]
And it’s a bit of both at the moment, I feel like it feels very natural. I’m having companies contact me and wanting to hire me to write for them rather than normally, I’d be going around and emailing 30 companies a day trying to find some writing gigs. So it feels like after about three years of trying to build the Connexions. And now it seems like people are finding me and contacting me. So hopefully that will continue. But there are times when the money is low. And I have to suddenly freak out and send a load of emails around.
David Ralph [6:38]
So do you ever send an email back to mom and dad? Or is that the one that you think no, if I do that, they’re going to drag me home.
Lauren Juliff [6:47]
I actually speak to my parents quite a lot. And Skype is great for that. And I will speak to my family about once a week actually. So I’m pretty good at keeping in touch. My mom terrified when I first left to travel, and she’s still a bit frightened. Now, she thinks that I’m probably going to die on the road. So I make sure to keep in touch with them every few days. So they know where I am. And they know that I’m safe. And they know that I’m happy. But yeah, I do think that they definitely would be happier if I was closer to home. Definitely.
David Ralph [7:23]
But what about the sort of financial email when you email dad and go, Dad, you couldn’t send me a few quid? Have you ever had to do that?
Lauren Juliff [7:32]
I fortunately have not had to do that. No, I had quite a large amount of savings. For my left, I worked for five years to build up a lot of savings. And I’m pretty much broke even in the last over the last three years.
David Ralph [7:45]
I think even at this point, we could stop the show now which I’m not going to. But we could stop it. And we could say this is the learning path for all of us. But it’s taking you three years to hit that tipping point where people are aware you and they are actually finding you out. And it’s it’s a liberating point, isn’t it when you you’ve actually worked and you work and you work and nobody’s paying any attention to you. And then suddenly, somebody is emailing you to say, Would you like to work for us?
Lauren Juliff [8:16]
Yeah, absolutely. I didn’t think that moment would happen, especially in the beginning where I had no idea what I was doing. I was a pretty terrible writer as well when I first started so I really had to work to improve my writing skills. Really, I had to learn how to pitch people I had to, I’d never written like a travel article before I travelled. So I had to learn how to write about travel, which not just saying like, oh, the beach was nice. The ocean was warm. So there was a definitely a steep learning curve. And in the beginning, it definitely didn’t seem like something that would be possible.
David Ralph [8:56]
And it must be quite difficult being an English lady to actually right back the ocean is warm. Because if you’ve had family holidays like I’ve had, where you’re basically crowded on a beach in jumpers it’s not fun at all. So Can Can you remember your childhood because we’re not we’re not been reading your blog. And I must admit, I’m going to touch on it later because a lot of it made me laugh out loud because it’s been it’s been unpleasant for you. And I don’t wish that on anyone. But some of the things I will say lovin that. It’s just bad luck that it’s happened. And others that I will talk about, I think to myself lower and what were you doing quite obvious that’s going to happen. But if you go back to your childhood, family holidays, what kind of were they? What were they like? Why were they so sort of miserable, as you say in your blog?
Lauren Juliff [9:48]
Okay, um, so we’d spend, we’d go to Devon for our family holiday each year. And we’d end up in a tiny little caravan really cramped and all cooped up together and it would rain non stop, and the weather would be awful. So we wouldn’t be able to go outside we wouldn’t be able to explore actually see anything in Devon, we just sit in this really dark caravan without any heating and argue and fight all the time. So yeah, those holidays were really miserable. They they weren’t enjoyable in any way. We were just arguing the entire time. And then as I got a bit older, we’d go to Spain on holiday. And we’d go to resorts and go to rent villas for the week. And I enjoyed that a lot more mostly because of the weather.
David Ralph [10:41]
Well, I think that the weather is the keeping, because when I was growing up, I had similar holidays.
Lauren Juliff [10:47]
Yes, and it’s just it’s really miserable. It’s I’d much rather go to Europe or elsewhere.
David Ralph [10:55]
Yeah, I think everyone would, is one of the things about I hate board games. If anything, nobody mentions monopoly to me, or Cluedo, or any of those ones. It just takes me back to those miserable caravan holidays as you had where you couldn’t go out. It was pouring rain, and cards. That’s another one. Anybody mentions playing a game of cards. I can’t bear it. I will run a mile from back. So yeah, it’s funny how your your life maybe that’s just the English way. Maybe we all left our lovely houses for a week a year to go and have torture in this this despite being can wear the rain just latched on there. As you say there was no heating, it was freezing cold in the morning. And Ben, you spent half the time in cloudy conditions being pounded by the wind on the beach, saying this is fun. It was it was it was Yes. It was just dreadful.
Lauren Juliff [11:50]
Feeling awesome. But that was a lot of my holidays were like that.
David Ralph [11:55]
And then when I started going to Europe, I was 11. When I first went to Europe, we went from the rain situation to die via don’t drink the water. Don’t drink the water. And
Unknown Speaker [12:06]
David Ralph [12:08]
day your parents were saying to you, you haven’t drank that water, don’t have ice in the drink. Don’t have this don’t have that. And it was that was pretty miserable as well. Really?
Lauren Juliff [12:17]
Yeah, the same thing happened to me. And now I go to Spain all the time. And I’m perfectly fine drinking the tap water. And I’m not quite sure why my parents would always be like, No, you can’t drink that. But that happened to me as well. I know that my parents were really nervous going abroad to a foreign country, especially where they didn’t speak the language. So we would kind of hold up in a resort and be too frightened to step outside and actually see some of the country.
David Ralph [12:44]
What was what was the first country you You did so on the 17th of July? Well, actually, I’m gonna go back further than that. My My head is full of questions I want to ask you. So going back, you had the standard, I would say Gail’s journey on this where you was at school and you had sort of Saturday Jobs. And during the evening and you you worked at Iceland, I believe, which is our sort of local supermarket, where the strapline in England is mums go to Iceland. And so what were you doing in that supermarket on a Saturday?
Lauren Juliff [13:20]
I was stacking shelves not very well, because I’m not very strong. And I was just sat on the checkout, scanning through frozen food. pretty bored. Really?
David Ralph [13:33]
And was it at that time, but you fought yourself? There must be more to life than this?
Lauren Juliff [13:39]
I think so. Yeah. It was definitely that it was pretty soul destroying, and to just do the same thing every week. And I’d be working with people that didn’t really have any motivation to develop themselves or do anything more than work at the supermarket. There’ll be people that hadn’t been working there for 50 years. And it was it blew my mind really. And it It made me definitely want to stop working that and see what else there was outside of the UK.
David Ralph [14:11]
So have you been to Iceland? The actual country?
Lauren Juliff [14:15]
Yes, I was there a couple of months ago for the first time.
David Ralph [14:19]
And what was it? Like? Did you spend over time sort of thinking back to the to the supermarket? Or was it that that that time in your life has just been blanked out?
Lauren Juliff [14:29]
I thought about it a little bit because I know that when I worked at Iceland, I would always joke about oh, I have to go to Iceland. When I go travelling. I decided think about it and think about how far I’ve come? Definitely. But yeah, the Iceland The country is much more enjoyable than Iceland the supermarket? Well,
David Ralph [14:50]
I think you want and that’s why they don’t say dad’s go to Iceland de la sweet try to keep away from so what really what I want to get down to is you leading up to the leap of faith on the 17th of July, you had so many things going on in your life, the anxiety disorders, the fact that you had to work three jobs. You really at a time when I suppose most young people would be out going clubbing boozing and sort of having a wild time, you seem to go completely the opposite path, did it? Did it ever come to a point where you thought I can’t do this, this is five years of extreme effort just to go on an extended holiday or was the passion so in you, but nothing was going to stop you achieving your aim?
Lauren Juliff [15:41]
I think it was a bit of both there were a few times where I really got sick of all of the changes I was making. So just so that I could save money. I remember one winter where it was a minus two degrees, and I was sat inside node refused to turn on the heating because I would like I must save money. I was sat there in the dark with like 10 blankets on top of me with my laptop. And I was just like, yeah, this is pretty miserable. I’m not quite sure why I’m taking it so much to the extreme to save like a few pennies. And so there were definitely moments like that where I was like, Okay, I need to come down with the extreme saving. But I do think that I decided that I wanted to make travel my priority. And I knew that I would have to sacrifice a lot of things to build up my savings. But I also found that I thought that it would be worth it. I thought that saving like 50 pounds on a night out could actually be like three nights in Thailand. And I thought that well, you know, I’m saving all my money now. But then in a few years when I’m actually travelling, I’ll be able to get more for my money and hopefully be having better experiences that are more memorable. And so I definitely I did struggle with that. Especially when my having lots of fun. And I was like, No, I’m not gonna go out tonight because I need to save money. But I think that it was definitely worth it in the end.
David Ralph [17:08]
Do you know low and I’m gonna get my wife to listen to this episode. Because I think that you are the perfect wife to be a you’re not married at the moment. I
Lauren Juliff [17:17]
know, I’m not yet
David Ralph [17:18]
no. Well, any other fellas out there, if you’re looking to get a wife, a lady who will quite happily turn the heating off and save a few quid. My wife basically in July would be happy to have it like gas Mark five in our house with a sweat. So I think I think credit to you. You are the perfect lady. And I’ll be honest, if she ever dumps me, I know where you are.
Unknown Speaker [17:44]
Yes, you do.
David Ralph [17:45]
Okay, you won’t you won’t answer my calls. You won’t answer my emails. I’ll try and do off now. I promise you. So 17th of July, you’ve had this effort. And you’ve had all the sort of working three jobs and stuff. And you are going to the airport. And as you were saying in your blog, you cried like a baby. Was that because you were you were scared? Was that because the achievement had become real? Or was it just a combination?
Lauren Juliff [18:15]
I think it was definitely I was scared more than anything. I think I had managed to convince myself I was making a huge mistake. I know that my parents weren’t really happy about me travelling and having to say goodbye to them. And not because I didn’t have an end date to my trip. I didn’t know when the next time I’d see them would be. So I was upset about saying goodbye to them. And also just because I’d had very unsupportive friends, when I decided I wanted to travel a lot of my friends, well, you’re not going to last you’ll be home within a few weeks. And I don’t think that your enjoy travel and you’re really bad, like living so you’ll be terrible at travelling. And I think having so many people convinced that I was going to fail had convinced me that I was making a huge mistake, and then I’d be home within a week. So I was very concerned about that. I think I was I was just anxious in general because I’d never travelled on my own before. And I’d never travelled for more than two weeks at a time. And I didn’t really feel that I knew how to travel because I had never really done it before. I didn’t have much life experience. I ate really bland food. I’d never eaten eggs before. I never eaten rice. I never had Thai food or Chinese food or Indian food or Mexican food. So I live I ate really bland food. So I was terrified about what I would have to eat. I had never taken a bus before because they frightened me. So I lived a very sheltered life and how
David Ralph [19:51]
to stop. So there you will have a bus? How Yes, I want How is anyone trying to have a boss?
Lauren Juliff [20:00]
Um, I think it was because I never really had a need to go on a bus when I was growing up. And then it reached the point where I was about 20. And I was like, Huh, I’ve never been on a bus before. I’m not really sure how they work. So I’m gonna keep avoiding them. And then it just reached the point where it became like this huge obstacle where I was like, I don’t understand what you do on a bus. So I was too frightened to actually get on one and ask. So I avoided them for until I started travelling.
David Ralph [20:31]
But But logically, you know, I’m not belittling this in any shape or form. Because this is interesting to me. But I would think that most people would know, but it takes you somewhere, first of all, and it’s not going to be free. So you’ve got to find out where it’s going and pay to get on so as as a sort of sensible lady as you are. I find it amazing. But it was it was a mindset, wasn’t it? It was it was a mindset trying to reach you to win you are by creating obstacles, but just weren’t there.
Lauren Juliff [21:05]
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, I get it. Now I can take buses fine. And I have no idea why I was so frightened or why I refuse to ever step on one.
David Ralph [21:15]
I had a lady. I used to be a manager years ago, and she was when I was up in the city. And she came up to me one day and she said, David, can I have next week off? And I said, Well, no, you can’t really, you know, because we haven’t got cover. And she said, I really need to I’ve got an opportunity to conquer something that is ruining my life. And I thought okay, this is quite important as a central, you know, okay, let me have a look at it, and we can see what we can do. Could you tell me what is ruining your life? And she said, Yes, I’ve got a fear of sharks. And I could never understand that at all. And I said to know, honestly, you know, if it was passes, or you know, air, or outside, you know, or birds or something, I could understand it. But with something like that, just keep away from them. And pretty much unless you’re walking down the high street and you hear it’s never gonna happen to you is it you just keep away from the water and the fears aren’t there. But with a bass, I suppose, you know, I am sort of, I am kind of belittling it slightly, I’ll be honest with you. But it is something it is something that is is everywhere, isn’t it? And no matter where you are going in any town, there are going to be buses and taxis. And I suppose that is that is something that if you have got a fear of it, or if you don’t understand it, it could really stop you in your tracks. So why did you Why did you overcome that? Because that is just something else, but could have kept you where you are.
Lauren Juliff [22:48]
I know I think I just I got very fed up with not having much life experience. And I know that my friends would always laugh at me and kind of just think I was really strange because I was like, Oh, no, I can’t take a bus there. I’ll just take a taxi instead. And yeah, I i think that i got i was fed up with feeling like I couldn’t really function in life. I felt like I wasn’t really living and I was afraid of too many things. And it was time for me to force myself out of my comfort zone.
David Ralph [23:21]
You know, the other thing that’s interesting about you as well is and I’ve heard this on so many conversations about how our peer group I are friends, the people that lovers actually are the most unsupportive at times when you’ve got a dream, when you’ve got a passion when you’ve got something that you want to do. Because they don’t actually want you to improve, they want you to stay where you are, because they feel comfortable. They even don’t have something to prove to themselves, they will hold you back. And you’re not alone with your unsupported peer group. It’s a strange thing that the people to care about as most are the ones that route us to where we are.
Lauren Juliff [23:59]
Yeah, and I’ve realised since I travelled on, I’m not friends with half of the people that I used to be at home just because they were so unsupportive. And even when I started travelling, and I was having all of these successes and things are going well, they were always trying to find a way to still laugh at me or I’d, I’d had like two months of really great travel, and then I got scammed. And then I’d have some friends being like, haha, I told you that would happen. And I’d be like, Okay, I think I probably would like to cut you out of my life because you’re not really improving it in any way. You’re just looking for a way to make me feel silly.
David Ralph [24:40]
I did the same. I actually looked at my email, I was sitting at home one day, and I was looking at all the emails that I had, but all the contacts. And I realised that probably 90% of the people I never spoke to, and 10% I did, but when I went out with a knife just broke me down. And then there was about five people, but I thought Yeah, actually, if got rid of everyone, these are the five that I think would would pick me up and support me and tell me I’m being stupid, you know, the real friends. So I emailed everyone. And I said to them, I guys, you might remember me. I don’t really want to see you anymore. If you want to come back and say yes, I do want to see you and I fancy having a pint I will meet up with you. But otherwise, just delete me. And people go, you can’t do that. That’s so rude. And it hasn’t changed my life in any way other than positive.
Lauren Juliff [25:34]
Yeah, the same happened to me. I thought that if I just stopped talking to people if I got rid of them on Facebook, and I thought that it would really disrupt every friendship I had. And maybe they’d get really angry and try and turn my other friends again. Nothing happened. It was and then I was much happier because I didn’t feel like anytime something bad happened to me I’d have people waiting to go Ah, knew that would happen.
David Ralph [26:01]
Have you been astonished by the support that you’ve had from complete strangers?
Lauren Juliff [26:08]
Yes, yeah, I wasn’t expecting that in the slightest. Just the emails I get every day from people that are like, Oh, you’ve inspired me to travel. I especially with the anxiety as well as a lot of people who have struggled from anxiety who have read my storey and can relate to it. And I like you show me that I can travel to and lots of people if I get scammed, or if I have, like something really bad happened. I felt like there’s this outpouring of love from people that I’ve never met before just saying, I hope you’re okay. And why don’t you try this and this and this. And it feels like I have a lot of people looking out for me. And most of them I haven’t even met before, which is a little strange.
David Ralph [26:57]
But it’s the weird thing. You know, I’m in this world. Now I’m in an online world, I’m having a conversation with yourself and loving every second of what we’re talking about. And within an hour, I’m having conversation with somebody else. And the fact that you guys are willing to speak to me, first of all, still blows my mind why they don’t want I want a nutter this bloke is he comes out of nowhere, and says would you want to come on the show, but I’ve never heard of, and and all those kind of thoughts go around my mind. But the emails I’ve been getting from people that have just been saying, you know, I love what you’re doing. Thanks for putting the work out there. I really like this guess I really like that. Yes, it makes it makes me realise that actually, the world is a good place. And there are probably 95% brilliant people out there. 3% horrible people and 2% serial killers.
Lauren Juliff [27:51]
Yes, I agree.
David Ralph [27:52]
I don’t know if those stats are completely made up there. They’re not factually correct in any shape or form. But it kind of seems right. I think that that the world he’s a good place to be.
Lauren Juliff [28:03]
Yeah, I think so there’s, there’s a lot of really great people. And travel has definitely helped me to realise that people aren’t trying to kill you all the time. I know that I was really nervous. Before I left to travel that I wouldn’t be able to trust any strangers. And I really had my guard up. I think a lot of that is a British thing as well, and on willingness to talk to strangers on the tube. And I found that when I travelled, it took quite a few months for me to get out of my shell and actually enjoy talking to strangers and realised and they had an interesting storey to tell and that they were actually really great, friendly people that wanted to help me. And they weren’t all they weren’t, you know, weirdos that wanted to stop me.
David Ralph [28:56]
You You have had some weird things that have happened, though, have and I’ll be honest, if I when I am a dad, I’m a dad of four daughters and a son. And I don’t think I would want my daughter to be putting some of these things on there because I would lead them and be going lower. You’re coming on, you’re coming home. I don’t want this to occur. Now I’m just going to give you some kind of the highlights on there. So if anybody wants to go over it and read these, and I hope you will, because they are they are brilliant. It’s www dot never ending footsteps.com hyphen, the incident so go for the incidents. So first of all right and these these are some of the the key points of Logan’s life getting scammed in Shanghai have been punching my scammer. Right. That’s that’s pretty ballsy. So give us an overview of that. How, where did you find was that the first person you’ve ever punched in your life?
Lauren Juliff [29:51]
Yes, it was. And it was very out of character. I’m normally very timid and shy. And I, I didn’t ever think that I’d find myself in a situation where I was punching somebody. And that so I was scammed in Shanghai, it was my, it was one of my very first days in Asia and I was a bit overwhelmed with culture shock, I wasn’t really sure how to behave, or were like how to function in China. And these two local girls came up to me, and they were really friendly. And we stood chatting for about an hour. And they were just really lovely people. And as we turned to say goodbye, they suddenly said, Oh, actually, it’s festival in China today. And we’re going to a traditional tea ceremony. So if you’d like to come with us, you’re welcome to come. And I was like, wow, this is the sort of travel experience I’d hope to have when I first left to meet locals and experience some of the culture. So I agreed to go with them. And we had the tea ceremony. And then when the bill came out at the end, I found out that it was actually a scam. And they were charging me something like 70 pounds for five cups of tea that were about they were tiny. They were like a few centimetres high. It was a mouthful. So it’s just samples of tea. And they’re trying to charge me 70 pounds for that. And then so we had an argument about that. And then they tried to scam me in other ways. They invited me to circus performance that actually was a scam. And I’d realised that because I’d read about it. And then when we left the ceremony, and I was walking back to my hostel, and the guards was still walking with me and I was getting really worked up. I’m really angry at them for pretending to be my friends and then betraying me to scam me. And then as I turned to say, look like I don’t want to hang out with you. I’m just going to leave. And I saw one of them with her hand in my purse, and she was pulling out my money and my passport and was trying to Rock me after they’d scammed me. And that was when I completely lost my temper and punched her in the face.
David Ralph [32:03]
And did she go down?
Lauren Juliff [32:06]
No, she did not. It was not a very hard punch. I’m not very strong.
David Ralph [32:10]
Have you developed your Rocky skills since then?
Lauren Juliff [32:14]
I have not No,
David Ralph [32:16]
no, then low and low. And you need to let you know because you couldn’t use those skills. The other thing that that struck me on the incidence was the monkeys of Monkey forest may look cute, but they are evil, evil creatures you got attacked by monkeys in Bali.
Lauren Juliff [32:33]
Yes, that was very frightening. They have a small park in Bali. That’s called monkey forest. And there are monkeys everywhere. And you can pay money to feed the monkeys. But they do they have rules at the entrance to monkey forest. They do not bring in any bags or any personal items because the monkeys will take them from you. And I was aware of this. But I also forgot about it when I was walking around the outskirts of the park and I was walking back to my hotel and I just had a bottle of coke in a plastic bag. And I was just walking along. And then all of a sudden I looked up and there were these crowd of monkeys blocking my part off and they were all staring at me. And I was like, Huh, this doesn’t seem good when
David Ralph [33:18]
I when I kind of
Lauren Juliff [33:21]
they were not wearing hoodies. They were but they were quite terrifying. And so one of them was bearing his teeth at me and hissing. And I wasn’t sure what to do. So I thought, Oh, well maybe it’s just like pigeons and I can just stamp my feet and that will run away and be frightened. So I tried stamping my feet at them, but that seemed to annoy them even more. And they started coming closer to me. So is backing away. And then one of them darted forwards and it grabbed my plastic bag and whipped it from my arms and took out my coke bottle and man away with it. And I was like, oh, oh no, I didn’t know what to do. And there were monkeys everywhere. So I just freaked out and I started running. And I was running along and then the monkey there was a monkey chasing after me and it had enormous teeth and it was like it was hissing at me. And then I slipped and then I fell down flat on my face and ripped up all of my legs, my knees. And then I was just lying there crying thinking the monkey was about to attack me and sink its teeth into my legs and I’d get rabies and probably die. And so I was just lying there screaming and crying and then I looked up and realised that the monkey had actually run away and there was just a group of Japanese tourists stood staring at me and wondering what I was doing.
David Ralph [34:37]
Because I would not go into a monkey forest. If somebody says to me monkey forest I instantly think of those ones in The Wizard of Oz remember with the wings Yes. And there’s there’s no way that I would think to myself you know you go to a zoo they’re behind bars that’s the reason why wild animals so if somebody says to me, okay, we’ve got a lion forest. Definitely not. If I say we got a separate forest, probably still not but monkeys as you say they got hands they can do things they can open coke bottles. So that was that was a bit weird. I’m not going to go through every single one of these because this is you know, we could keep going because they’re they’re truly dreadful. So I’m just gonna list of these. So having an elderly women die on my slow boat and allow I’ve been sitting next to her for six hours. That’s not good. I’m boarding into a rice paddy in Bali, not good. Being in Indonesia when an earthquake occurred and being told a tsunami was heading our way. Not you know, you don’t get these at Devon. That’s one of the best parts going on. But but the one that I read, and I’m not going to get too into it, because it is quite in the personal, but I did think to myself, Laverne Laverne, what were you doing? It was your message in Bangkok. And I’m just going to summarise this. But I’m Laurin decides to go to Bangkok and have a massage. She didn’t have a lot of money. So they went for the cheapest place they could find. And it was an elderly woman in a very shady room who insisted that they were totally naked for the massage. Now that’s the first part. But I would think to myself, how much of my body is tense? I don’t I don’t need to take everything off. But Levin goes, this sounds right. I’m going to do this. And then the 10 minutes, she has her herb top half massage. didn’t want to go hang on this sounds a bit wrong. I once again and let the old lady do it. And then the old lady kind of went into areas that you wouldn’t want to go. Wasn’t there one part in that whole episode, but you kind of thought, hang on. This can’t be right. I must stop this.
Lauren Juliff [36:55]
No, there wasn’t. And I think that comes down to my lack of common sense. But I the time it was my very first day in Thailand. And I thought Wow, I’ve never had a Thai massage before. So I’d like maybe this is just what they’re like. And I was with a friend at the time who had had a Thai massage before. And she didn’t seem to think it was strange to remove your clothes. So I was like, okay, maybe this is normal. This is a little uncomfortable. But okay. And then yeah, I just thought and when she was massaging my boobs, I was like, well, maybe this is just what’s meant to happen. For technique I just had no. Yes. How,
David Ralph [37:32]
how much massage can you do in 10 minutes?
Lauren Juliff [37:36]
I couldn’t. I was just, I couldn’t stop laughing.
David Ralph [37:41]
You know, because I I haven’t I’m gonna say the word because you said it. I haven’t got boobs at all. I’ve got a kind of timeshare situation that if I’m good, I’ve got the the potential of having some, my wife’s gonna kill me for saying that. But even even that I haven’t got anything. Well, it’s wrong lovin that? You shouldn’t have done it.
Lauren Juliff [38:05]
Yes, well, I realised that now.
David Ralph [38:08]
Well, I’m glad. I’m glad. And if you ever go into somewhere and it says, monkey massage, we would do it?
Lauren Juliff [38:16]
No, definitely not.
David Ralph [38:18]
It says bad thing. So yeah, go on to her website, because it is brilliant. There’s so much on there. And you are, you know, you are a real writer. And what I like about your writing style, it sounds like the person I’m talking to now. It was almost that I I knew you before we press record, and you have creative that that ability to be naturally you on on the written page.
Lauren Juliff [38:46]
Yeah, I think it was very important for me to have a personal site, because those are the type of blogs I like read. And I like reading personal storeys, I don’t need to read about five things to do in Bangkok. And I want to read personal stuff. And I want to read, honest writing that shows the good and the bad aspects of travel. So I tried to write in a style that I would want to read as a as a reader,
David Ralph [39:12]
where you’ve done a brilliant job, I’ll tell you what, because people will be flying over there and, and drop out emails from all over the world to say that you love our work, because it really is great. And it’s IT. And especially if you work in Iceland, if you are in a supermarket putting shelves up and stuff, well, you wouldn’t put shelves up there stupid, but feeling feeling shelves, and send us some emails to say I’m in that situation I am loving of 1015 years ago. So what I want to do now alone, I just want to play there’s a part of the show that we do, which is really is the theme of the whole show. And that’s when we look back at the words of Steve Jobs. Now Steve Jobs made a speech back in 2005, which I’m going to play now, which really is the sort of mantra for the show. But we don’t know what’s going to happen, we can only trust, we can only have faith, we will we need to move forward. And by looking back and joining up our dots, we can actually see that path. And I’m going to play bass. And I want to see as I do to August, how relevant it is to your life and your life going forward. So this is Steve Jobs.
Unknown Speaker [40:16]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leaves you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [40:51]
Well, you’re on a path, but you could not have imagined when he was a young girl. So to do those words. Did I have relevance to you?
Lauren Juliff [41:01]
Yes, absolutely. I think a lot of the really bad things that happened to me when I was younger. And I can now look back on and see that they were actually positive. An example is my boyfriend broke up with me about a year before I left to travel. And he was a longtime boyfriend. And he was someone who I was originally going to travel with him we were going to as soon as I graduated from uni, we were going to set off and travel the world for a year, and then return back to normal life. So then when he broke up with me, I was devastated. And I thought that I wouldn’t be able to travel because well, I hadn’t been on a bus and I didn’t know how to eat foreign food. And I was frightened of everything. So it was really tough for me to decide to travel alone. And at the time, it felt like the worst possible thing to have ever happened to me. Whereas now when I look back on that three years on, I can see the actually the breakup was the best thing to have ever happened to me before. That was the catalyst for me to start travelling solo. And it was why I started my travel blog to record my travels. And it’s because of that travel blog that I’m still travelling now. So I see that actually, if I if he hadn’t had broken up with me, and we’d have done our one year trip around the world, I’d be back home now. And I don’t think I would have grown as a person in the way that I have. I wouldn’t have had such great storeys as I do now. And I think that having all of the bad things happen to me, which happened because I was travelling on my own, they actually turned out to be really great things that helped me to grow as a person. So actually, the breakup was one of the best things that could have happened to me. But at the time, I felt like my travel dreams are over my life. So I don’t know what I’m going to do now. And but actually, it was quite a positive thing.
David Ralph [42:51]
Does Does he ever contact you and say no, and no. And I made a mistake, please let me come out.
Lauren Juliff [42:58]
No, that has never happened.
David Ralph [43:00]
Well, I I, I don’t like the man. I’ll be honest, if anyone is out there, and they’ve got the opportunity to travel, especially with somebody, I would say to my daughters, I would say to my son, do it because commuting up to London and back every day isn’t going to teach you anything is it but life experience, cultures, different way of eating different way of cooking it, it will change you beyond anything you can possibly get out of a book, or just going to a nine to five job.
Lauren Juliff [43:32]
Yeah, I had no life experience. And I’m pretty certain that if I’d stayed in the UK, I would still have no life experience, I probably still wouldn’t have been on a bus and I probably still wouldn’t have eaten rice and I would have still been afraid of everything.
David Ralph [43:46]
Now I’m going to list some of the places that you’ve been because hundred and 93 countries now that I pause there for a moment because that kind of made my my brain go funny. There’s a lot more than 193 countries isn’t there, but that’s from the United Nations. lyst so there’s a load of kind of weird little countries that are springing out all over the place. So there must be a lot more than that I magic. But But you’ve done 47 out of the hundred 93 using the United Nations lyst you have done a five out of seven continents. You have done 59 out of 962 World Heritage Sites. You have done Africa, Asia, Australia and Oceana Central America, Europe, Middle East, North America, where you’ve lived Thailand and I can’t pronounce these some of these names. Hoshi Minh city viet-nam London, the United States, Mexico. And where’s next room. So on that list, it’s it’s pretty getting red. There’s a map that I’m looking at. And the countries where Lauren has been a red, and where she is now is blue. So there’s not a great deal of white left to explore. You’ve got Greenland to go to white. Haven’t you done Greenland?
Lauren Juliff [45:02]
And very expensive and hard to get to? And also, I don’t think there’s an awful lot there. I think it’s just a lot of ice. I would like to get there eventually. But and I think that’ll probably be one of the last countries on my list.
David Ralph [45:15]
Have you done all of you because I’m squinting at this map and the looks like you haven’t done places like Cyprus and stuff.
Lauren Juliff [45:24]
I’ve been to Cyprus, but there are definitely a few places missing. The Scandinavia I haven’t been to, and also the North Eastern places up near Latvia and Estonia. I haven’t been to those yet. So there’s, there’s still a few places missing. But I’ve definitely seen quite a lot of Europe.
David Ralph [45:42]
So when you’re out there, is there a plan to your travel? Or do you go to a place and when you meet someone and they go, Oh, love and you’ve got to go over there? I mean, you can Oh, okay, that’s where I’ll go next. Or is it a plan where you know, your next route.
Lauren Juliff [45:57]
And it’s a bit of both, I normally have a bad we rough plan as to the region I want to explore. And but I won’t book any flights, or really plan specific days. And so I will leave, if I want when I feel like I’ve been in the country enough and I want to go somewhere else, then I decided to leave or if my visa runs out, and I have to leave. So at the moment, I’m planning to spend the rest of the year in kind of Southeast Asia and South Asia. And but that could change my original plan at the start of the year was to spend all of 2014 in South America. And now I’m back in Asia. So my plans often really don’t stick. And I will change my mind. And because I don’t have onward travel booked, I can just change my mind and decide to go somewhere if I feel like it.
David Ralph [46:52]
Is that a key thing to do anyone out there who is planning a trip like this, I can imagine they’re sitting at home, they’ve got their laptop laptop of and they are planning everything to an inch of its life. And I know where they’re going to be here for two days and where they’re going to be there is I suppose it’s a comfort blanket into the unknown. But once you actually get into it, and you realise that there’s a liberation, there’s a freedom, is it better not to actually plan and book anything can just go with the flow?
Lauren Juliff [47:21]
Yes, that’s definitely the way to do it. I made the mistake of my first month of travel, I’d booked everything. So I’d booked all of my accommodation I’d planned. I booked flights from different countries. And I knew exactly where I was going to be. I’d even planned what activities I was going to do on each day. And I was pretty miserable for that first month because I was meeting people and I was making friends. And they were like, Hey, we’re going to go to Bosnia for the weekend. Do you want to come with me? And I’d be like, well, I can’t because I’ve got a train ticket booked to Slovenia. So I guess that was good by then. So I meet people that will go and sell whether I’d want to go with them, but couldn’t. Or also on the on the other hand, I’d sometimes go places that I didn’t like them. And I plan to spend a week somewhere. And I got there. And I was like, No, I don’t really like it here that I couldn’t leave for a week because that was where my plane ticket was. So I would just end up really frustrated and bored and spending time where I didn’t want to be. So I found that as soon as I stopped making plans and allowed my travels to just be pretty free and relaxed. And I would make up my mind to go wherever I want. Whenever I wanted, I found that I was much happier. And then I did meet people that were like, Hey, we’re going to go to the Philippines Do you want to come and I’d never considered going to the Philippines, but I was having a great time with them. So I flew to the Philippines with them. And it turned out to be one of my favourite countries because of that. So I definitely think if you don’t make plans, then you’re much more open to new experiences and doing things that you didn’t expect. And often those are the things that are most memorable.
David Ralph [49:04]
Have you ever seen the film hostile?
Unknown Speaker [49:07]
I haven’t go
Lauren Juliff [49:10]
David Ralph [49:11]
Don’t watch the film hostile it’s, I’m not even going to tell you about it. If anybody wants to know what I’m talking about. Go online, but it will certainly stop your travelling I promise you.
Lauren Juliff [49:23]
Yes, I’d had many friends before I left to travel will be like, Oh my God, have you seen hostel? that’s gonna happen, you will die. And I was like, No, I am not watching that.
David Ralph [49:34]
Don’t go with it. Don’t go with hostel, one, two, and three, or whatever, whatever they gone to is a bad place to go loving. So if somebody out there is listening to you, and is really inspired, are there websites and resources that you would go? Yes, that’s where you should go to start getting an idea? Or is it simply to come to your website, neverending footsteps.com? And all the the tips and the you know, the the links or other websites have a bed where where should they go?
Lauren Juliff [50:03]
Well, that’s quite a few places you can go. But I don’t actually recommend one particular source because they’re so different. And they’ll say different things. And some sources will be outdated. So what I’ll do is if I’m going to a new country, I usually go to wiki, travel and read about the country and the city and try and get an idea for what it will be like, I’ll do a google image search and look for travel blog posts about the place where I’m going, I’ll even look at YouTube videos. And so I can get a good feel for it. But really, I don’t research that much about a place before I get there. Because I don’t want to have expectations that may disappoint me, which has happened a few times. So I really try not to read up on it in terms of things like what to take with you and how to stay safe. And yeah, you can find that on my site in amongst all of the incidents that are had. But there’s, there’s loads and loads of travel blogs out there. And a quick search on Google will give you so much information.
David Ralph [51:07]
What’s the worst place you’ve been to? If your ex boyfriend suddenly comes out the woodwork and contacts you and says to you? Where should I go low? And where’s amazing? What is the worst place that we can send him?
Lauren Juliff [51:20]
China, I really did not like China, it was my least favourite country.
David Ralph [51:25]
You’ve only insulted probably, I don’t know, 15 billion people. But you could have gone with the I don’t know, some tiny little.at the diabetes or something. But I’m chillin us and what was wrong with China open in the toiletry. That’s but that must be bad.
Lauren Juliff [51:44]
Yeah, it was just it was a very stressful country for me. And actually, I would like to return and try and have a different experience because I think it was the first country I visited in Asia. And I was very out of my comfort zone. And I’m a little close minded still at that point. But I found that that it was quite good, Dottie, the kids would wear these trousers that had a slip on the bottom so that they could just have a pool on the street, which was kind of gross. And I found that there was lots of the locals would be spitting quite a lot. And the food made me quite sick, I had food poisoning for a long time I was there. And it was just having so many people in such small spaces and everyone like they did q in China, they would like if you were trying to get on a train, you would have old women like elbowing you to the ground to try and get on before you. So it was quite aggressive. And I definitely did struggle quite a bit with the just like the diet and yeah, the manners.
David Ralph [52:47]
I love the fact that you are so in touch with yourself now and so confident. And so obviously such a different person to when neverending footsteps started. But even though it was a bad experience, you are still willing enough to go hang on that might just have been when I was there before. Now I’m a different person, I could make it a different experience. Do you not think that’s that’s absolutely brilliant? Or do you just not think about it anymore, but you can do that mentally.
Lauren Juliff [53:16]
And I think it’s pretty great. I definitely wasn’t really very much in touch with myself when I first started travelling. But I think just being aware that I have grown as a person, and I’m a lot more open minded, and I’m a lot more tolerant of different cultures. And I’m not so judgmental, I think is really important. And just willing to give a country a second try. I know that some people I know have been to Thailand, which is one of my favourite countries and hated it because of some bad experiences that ruin their time, then, I think was just as likely those could have happened to me when I was in Thailand. And I think it depends on on the circumstances when you visit. So you’re just as likely for me to return to China and just have a really great time. So I’m I would there aren’t any countries where I’d say no, I will never return to that country. Because I think that the next time I return, I could have a much more positive experience.
David Ralph [54:15]
Well, good on you. That’s why I say I think you are a lady that if we get you back on the show in another four years, it’s going to be a totally different storey again, we can you imagine settling, you know, obviously you’re you’re still young, and you’re still progressing through. But there might come a time where you think to yourself, actually, I wouldn’t mind having a family and settling down. Do you? Do you think you would come back to England or now you’ve seen so much of the world? Do you think No, actually, I’m going to go off to a different place?
Lauren Juliff [54:43]
And I’m not sure I’m I say that I don’t really want to settle down in the future at the moment. But I know that that could be quite easily change. So I’m leaving all of that open, I don’t think that I would return to the UK permanently. I think just yeah, having seen so many great places. I know that when I live in Thailand, I spend 300 pounds a month for an amazing quality of life where I have a great apartment with a cleaner and a gym and a swimming pool and I eat out for every single meal and convince a scooter. So I know that I can have a great quality of life for 300 pounds a month. So then when I think of what I’d have to pay in the UK to get all of that, then it’s a bit like Oh, well. Now I’m kind of aware that it’s so easy to live cheaply in other parts of the world. And so I’m not sure I can see my travels definitely slowing down. And me spending three months in different places around the world. And definitely tying in three months in the UK to see my family for Christmas or over summer. So I can see that happening. But I’m not sure that I could, at the moment commit to bomb place because there’s so many that I love.
David Ralph [55:58]
Well, we’re at the end of the show. Now Lawrence, this is the last bit of travel that I’m going to force on you. And this is this is time travel, you don’t get back travelling around the world. And this is when I send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. So I’m going to play the theme tune to sermon on the mic and when it fades out. You’re in a room with the younger low and and what age would you choose? Would it be the loving islands’? Would it be the younger loving shouting at your family you know in a caravan in Devon. So the music’s going to play I’m going to remain totally quiet and vicious. You on the mic? This is the Sermon on the mic.
Unknown Speaker [56:37]
Here we go with the best bit of the show.
Lauren Juliff [56:56]
Hi, Norman. Okay, so at the moment, you’re having panic attacks every day, and you’re full of anxiety, and you have no idea what you’re doing. And you don’t know if you should be studying physics, or whether you should leave to travel. And you’re just frightened of everything. You want to travel the world, but you feel like you’re too frightened to do so. And you’re too frightened to live. And I think that, you know, while it’s easy to give into the belief that terrible things will happen the minute you leave your house, it’s important to accept that Well, actually, yes, bad things will happen to you, and especially to you they will happen all the time. And it seems unfair, you know that everyone else seems to pass through life quite easily. While you seem to be scammed and involved and attacked and have terrible things happen. But actually, you need to learn that the awful things happening to you will give you an advantage over everyone else. Because it well first of all, it ensures you never run out of how very funny storeys and secondly, it helps you to grow as a person far more effectively than you would if only really amazing things happen to you. And having terrible luck doesn’t mean that your your life and overall experiences are going to be just terrible. You know, as soon as you realise that it’s your fear of the Unknown, Unknown that is stopping you, and causing all the problems in your life other than the bad events yourself. And you’ll find that your anxiety is far easier to control. And if you’re forever worrying about something bad happening, you just need to go outside and see that actually, when you step outside, those things never happen. Or if they do, it’s something that you weren’t prepared for at all. And then when that happens, you realise that it’s not so bad, and you can deal with the situation and you can get over it. And once you do that, that’s what helps you to grow as a passing.
David Ralph [59:02]
I love to go back. And I think there’s so many people out there that will be listening to that and be you know, totally frightened by a bad thing could happen. And that really is the sort of mantra to the show that so many of the guests have been saying, at my worst time when it was that the darkest moment, but looking back was actually my best thing because that made me grow. That took me out my comfort zone that pushed me on the path I was and and without that you can’t you’re just going to be sitting on your bed with Netflix every night, aren’t you?
Lauren Juliff [59:33]
Yeah, definitely. And I was like that. And then I set out to travel and even though really terrible things happened is turn me into a much better person and that I’ve already grown because of that.
David Ralph [59:44]
Well, I do think that you are great person love. And I’m so pleased that you’ve been on the show because I started to think it’s something about me that you didn’t want to come on because only we were so cancelling so many times. Your costs got better. I see the last time we almost got you on the show you you had a really bad cough and I was dying as well. So I’m glad to hear that. And I do think that you are you are the perfect lady out there. You know, so a lady that is willing to embrace full frontal nudity with strangers, brilliant, and lazy, who is willing to have no heating on at the coldest part. Absolutely perfect. And simply. Thank you so much for spending time with us today joining up those dots. So how do people connect with you below? And obviously, we’ve been talking about the website, neverending footsteps.com. Are you on Facebook? Are you on Twitter and all those gone? Normal social media platforms?
Lauren Juliff [1:00:35]
Yes, I’m on Facebook, which you can just search the neverending footsteps and you’ll find me and my Twitter username is m e footsteps. And you can also email me at Lauren at neverending footsteps. com.
David Ralph [1:00:49]
Lovely. Okay, well please come back again. We have more dots to join up, because I believe the only way to build our futures is by connecting our pasts. Laurin. Julie, thank you so much.
Lauren Juliff [1:01:01]
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