Lolly Daskal Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast
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Introducing Lolly Daskal
Lolly Daskal is my guest today, on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots free podcast interview.
This remarkable lady is one of the most sought-after executive leadership coaches in the world.
Her extensive cross-cultural expertise spans 14 countries, six languages and hundreds of companies.
She has written thousands of articles, columns, speeches and presentations.
She is the author of two books: Trust Inc and Thoughts Spoken from the heart.
Both of them bring her expertise to her work that is grounded in behavioural and psychological principles along with 30 years of experience.
She has worked across a wide range of industries and organisations within corporate, nonprofit, government, and business development domains, encouraging, pushing and setting guidelines for achieving high and consistent performance
How The Dots Joined Up For Lolly
And now after decades of coaching powerful executives around the world, our guest has observed that leaders rise to their positions relying on a specific set of values and traits.
But in time, every executive reaches a point when their performance suffers and failure persists. Very few understand why or how to prevent it.
And she has bound up all this knowledge within the covers of her new book “The Leadership Gap”
Flying off the shelves she gets between you and your greatness.
So of course its great to be great, but how do you push past those feeling of doubt and insecurity that all high achievers struggle with in their lives?
And did she work to get to this point in her life?
Or perhaps as so many guests have revealed…it’s been a pleasant surprise to her, that her dots have led her to this point?
Well let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Lolly Daskal.
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Lolly Daskal such as:
Why we should realise that when things are hard, the more focus we put in the easier things will become.
Why the harder route will often get us to where we want to be quicker.
Lolly Daskal explains her theory that we all should just go for what feels right in your life.
How the gut is where success is waiting. Trust your gut to make the right decisions for you.
Why so many people fail to reflect on their own lives due to their busy schedule, until someone reflects it back on them by their own failures and struggles.
We discuss how the imposter syndrome can hold us back in our lives, unless we accept that perfection wont ever happen, just get on with it.
Lolly Daskal Books
How To Connect With Lolly Daskal
If you enjoyed this episode with Lolly Daskal, then why not listen to some of our favourite podcast episodes such as Bushra Azhar, Thomas Frank, Dr Joe Vitale or the amazing Alfie Best
Or if you prefer just pop over to our podcast archive for thousands of amazing episodes to choose from.
Audio Transcription Of Lolly Daskal Interview
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. join up dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK David Ralph
David Ralph [0:34]
Yes, Hello, good morning, everybody across the world who listens to join up dots. Welcome to another show. And today’s gonna be a good one. I always say I don’t I never start with going, this is going to be total crap. Listen to something else. But this is going to be really good. Because I’ve already had a little conflict, we’ve had a little little flirty conversation, the two of us and we realize that we’ve got the same spirits, we’ve got the same belief of how things that should should operate in life. But basically the biggest you want to do in your life going forward, I kind of already in you, they’re tucked in within tightly held back. And all you’ve got to do is sort of look back, see what things you really love doing and you’re very good at and build a business around it. Well, it’s a bit harder than that. But our guest can show you how to do it because she’s one of the most sought after executive leadership coaches in a world of extensive cross cultural expertise spans 14 countries, six languages and hundreds of companies. She’s written thousands of articles, column speeches, and presentations. And she’s the author of two books trust Inc, and bought spoken from the heart where she brings expertise to her work, but is grounded in behavioral and psychological principles. Along with 30 years of experience, she’s worked across a wide range of industries and organizations within corporate nonprofit government and business development domains, encouraging pushing and setting guidelines for achieving high and consistent performance. And now after decades of coaching powerful executives around the world, our guest has observed that leaders rise to their positions relying on a specific set of values and traits. But in time, every executive reaches a point where their performance suffers and failure persists. Very few understand why or how to prevent it. And she’s bound up all this knowledge within the covers of a new book, but leadership gap, what gets between you and your greatness, which is coming out shortly. So of course, it’s great to be great, but how do you push past those feelings of doubt and insecurity that all high achievers struggle with in their lives? And did she work to get to this point in her life or as many guests have revealed it’s been a pleasant surprise to her. But the dots have led to this point where let’s find out as we bring on to the show to start joining up dots with the one and only lolly Daskal Good morning, Molly, how are you?
Lolly Daskal [2:40]
I am great. This is so great to be here. I’ve been wanting to talk to you for a long time. So I’m so excited.
David Ralph [2:48]
We are with the same amount we lolly we’ve realized that we’re the same you’re in a lady body. I’m in a male body. Sometimes I’d like to be in a lady’s body. But at the moment we’re coming to the same.
Lolly Daskal [3:00]
You’re going to find out after our conversation deep inside, we’re all the same. We all yearn long for the same things.
David Ralph [3:08]
And what is the things that wake you up this morning? Because you’re in New York, New York. So good. You named it twice. When your alarm went off this morning? Did you look over there? Oh God, I gotta talk to that idiot from the United Kingdom. What did you go, oh, greedy. And this is the start of another amazing day of adventure and wild abandonment.
Lolly Daskal [3:24]
You know, so I have a little ritual that I do between the hours of 430 and 630. So you weren’t the first thought that I had this morning. I have a ritual that I read a book every day. And I’ve been doing it for many, many years. I think it’s 27 years right now. Because for me, it exercises my mind. It gives me something to think about during the day. It allows me to talk to people with something new that I learned. And I really like it. Some people go to the gym, I go to the bookshelf.
David Ralph [3:57]
I’ve got a problem lolly I’ve got a problem I’m probably saying in the last show, but I’m going to share it to you now. I’ve started to get to that age where I open a book and the print is too small. And I’m moving my arms back and forth, back and forth. You are young, you’re glamorous. Have you got to that point where you think the lights not bright enough? I can’t see this. Have you got a big magnifying glass in front of me? Do you have that problem.
Lolly Daskal [4:20]
So it happened 10 years ago where I woke up and I found that I was moving the book backwards and forwards By the way, I’m older than you David so moving it back and forth. And so I had to get reading glasses. But guess what, when you get reading glasses, you you can get a reading glass for your books. But then you might need another reading glass for your computer because you hold your computer at a different length. And so I had to find that I can hold the book where I hold my computer so that I could see it’s not that getting old is not easy, but you have to learn the tricks and the techniques. I don’t want to go slowly. I don’t want to
David Ralph [4:53]
get old, he’s already hard enough to put my socks on in the morning. It was never, it was never hard to put my socks on my left leg, I literally had to have a couple of staff to lift my foot up. So I could put my left sock on.
Lolly Daskal [5:07]
I have a solution for get the socks.
David Ralph [5:10]
Just go naked. Is that what you’re saying?
Lolly Daskal [5:12]
No. But for you know, we you know the idea of the look, no socks just shoes. That’s it just go for easy.
David Ralph [5:18]
Oh, I can’t do that. I can’t do that. But he’s that kind of a metaphor for life. When when that this is the perfect segue from socks to a career entrepreneurial path. But that’s life become easy when people stop struggling against stuff and they just do things that work for them. Is that how life should be?
Lolly Daskal [5:37]
Okay, so that’s a great question. Should it be absolutely is it not always. And so what we need to realize that when things are hard, the more focus you give it, the more you’re able to achieve it. So for me, when I set my focus on something, I do everything I can and not allow it to get it the way of what I want. So let’s say like you just said, the socks are hard to put on in the morning, right, I would find a way that it would be easy, maybe I would lie down in bed, put my feet up in the air, instead of bending down, I would do whatever it takes to get it done.
David Ralph [6:16]
I just hired a couple of drops a couple of drops that sit in my bedroom waiting for me when I need them.
Lolly Daskal [6:23]
Okay, send them my way,
David Ralph [6:25]
I will do you can have one of them. You can have them on Sunday night and for the rest of the week. Now, when you say that you focus on something too hard. One of the things that has come out on join up dots is the kind of the depth of hustle when I started the show four years ago, we used to talk about flexing the old hustle muscle. And everybody was talking about how they get up. And they do this and they do that. But over the last maybe 200 shows I’m seeing more and more people going. Now it’s not about that it’s about doing the right thing is about doing the right thing to get the result is not about working hard. Did you see the same thing.
Lolly Daskal [7:00]
So I love that you mentioned that this is such an important point. So some people explain it a different way. I call it discipline, I have a lot of discipline in my life that allows me freedom, I’m not going to do a lot of little things that are a waste of time. But I’m going to concentrate on the things that are smart and not work so hard. So I get it done. So basically, before I dive in and get focused, I try to come up with what I need to do in the way I need to do it. So I’m not distracted by many other things that are happening around me. So your folks describe it differently. But I call it lolly become disciplined in order to create the freedom.
David Ralph [7:39]
And do you have freedom of sort of general choice? Can you get up? Or are you being pushed around? Can you? Are you the the producer of your own movie? lolly?
Lolly Daskal [7:49]
Absolutely. And that’s the only way it should be because you know what you need, you know where you want to go? You know what you need to achieve? And nobody else gets it like you do.
David Ralph [8:01]
But what why do so many people allow themselves to be herded around, if you go across the world, you have got I would say probably 80% of the people don’t realize that I can have a better life. So they’re just going through what other generations have gone. 10% are really sort of struggling because they’re kind of they still believe the old ways, but like you can see a new way of doing it, I can see what other people are doing. I mean, you got about 10% that are rocking and rolling. And this show is kind of focused on the first 10% the ones that are kind of trapped in the old ways of thinking but trying to move towards the new one. Why do people not believe that they can have their own movie and they can be producers of it.
Lolly Daskal [8:41]
You know, one of my favorite mentors said something so beautiful, and you don’t mind I’m not going to quote it exactly. So everybody, please forgive me. But he said something so beautiful. He said, Don’t aim for success, the more you aim for it, and you make it a target, the more you’re going to miss it. And he says for success is like happy, you know, you cannot be pursued it cannot be ensued. It only does when it I don’t remember it exactly. But it is he says something it only does to the intended side effects of a personal dedication to cause greater than oneself. So what he’s trying to say is is like, don’t go after something that is abstract, don’t go after something that you don’t know what it feels like, what it tastes like, what it what it sounds like, success will come to you. Because you forgot to think about it. And what he means by that is and I love that last line because he forgot to think about it, it means that you have to go within your heart and you have to figure out you know, my company’s called lead from within, right. And the reason it’s called lead from within because deep inside us, we know what we want. And I think it’s everybody out there. It’s not just the 10% that every single person listening here, if you are quiet for a few minutes, and somebody asks you, what do you really want, people will tell you immediately I want this. And they’ll even say as crazy as it sounds, they always say that. And then they tell you what they want. What I would love for people to understand is that you must relax in this knowledge, you must relax in this yearning, and what you really want. And then just created in a way that feels like a flow. Everybody else out there in the world is doing their own thing and is doing it in their own way. You were created one of a kind, we need to hear from you what you want what’s within you. So let’s stop worrying about the 10% and the 80%. Let’s concentrate on the most important person and that is you. And as he said, Don’t aim for success. Don’t aim for the rocket, just aim to being the person you are meant to be.
David Ralph [10:53]
Oh, I love that. I do love that when I stand up join up dots. I went off like a rocket and I really put the hustle when I was doing like 20 hours a day. You know, I tell the story all the time. But hey, it’s my show. No one can shut me up slowly. And little by little I realized that actually I wasn’t happy my show was going up. But I was thinking I’m just getting tired and exhausted here. And so I went through this next phase of it by looking at what’s right, what’s the next right being and trying to be quite strategic. But since 2017, I have gone for quietness. I have disconnected myself from Facebook, I’ve disconnected myself from most social media, I don’t read the news. I don’t know anything that’s going on in the world. I just 100% focused in on what I’m doing. And it’s given me more energy is given me allow a time for my brain to just kind of be free and allow thoughts to come into it without all that noise noise noise. Now, people were saying to me, you can’t do that David you can’t be everywhere. You gotta be on Pinterest, you gotta be on Instagram, you gotta be on every platform, even if you don’t know how to use it, you’ve got to be there. And I think that’s total rubbish. And I was so glad. Bloody minded, lovely to say to them, I don’t care if that’s your way, I’m going to do this, because it’s that there’s so many ways to cook an egg, isn’t it? As I say, I don’t know if I do say that. But I’ve just made it. And whatever you want to cook, there’s different ways of doing it. So you just have to look within yourself and decide what’s right for you.
Lolly Daskal [12:19]
You know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of something that I always say to my clients like when you’re when you’re no longer able to change the situation? What do you do? You have to change yourself? And that’s what you did. You decided to do what is right for you? Who cares what other people tell you to do you know what is right for you, you have to go inward to re energize and to refuel in order to be the amazing person that you are today. So kudos to you.
David Ralph [12:47]
Well, if we take you back in join up dots timelines, we like to take you right back to the limit lolly because that is the connecting point for everything you’re doing now all your super talents about just kind of natural gifts that people forget about, about the people that are rocking and rolling, you can take them back to the little one. Where is the connection between you and there may be the three year old, the four year old, a five year old lolly rolling around with a dollies and stuff? What what talents Have you taken from that little person?
Lolly Daskal [13:17]
It’s interesting, because I’ve always been a very curious person. I was the kind of child that would ask why. Why? Why did I drive my parents crazy? Absolutely. Did they want to tell me to please be quiet? Absolutely. And this inquisitive mind, the reason to understand drove me to become a student of psychology and philosophy. Because I needed to understand how things work. Why do people do the things that they do. And once I discovered things about human beings and how they work and how they do things, the next thing happened was is I wanted to be able to help them and to serve them and be there. for them. It was a big thing for me, in order to help them. And I think that people give in life, what they need to receive. And so for me, it was I needed to understand myself better. And so I found that I was I was trying to find out how to understand others. And once I realized this, it became a profession, it became a career, it became something that I’ve been doing for three decades. But I didn’t realize about connecting the dots until you just asked me.
David Ralph [14:26]
It’s interesting, because I’ve just had a guest on the show that we were recording with just before this one who is a master of persuasion, and understands the switches in people’s brains, but they just can’t find it gains. And it seems to me that what you’ve done, everyone should do especially in business, because people operate in a certain way people just react to stimuli that we can program them. Do you look back on it and go, thank God, thank God, I understood people at an early age because literally I can go anywhere be because we’re all dealing with people every single minute of the day.
Lolly Daskal [15:03]
Do I say thank God, I don’t know. But what it’s done, it’s made me very intuitive and being intuitive in your business. And I don’t mean hokey pokey, but I’m able to sit in a room and able to really understand my clients able to understand people. I’m the kind of person that is not usually doing all the talking. I’m the kind of person that’s usually doing all this listening. This is this is interesting for me for you asking me questions, because as a great coach, I find that I have to be a great listener more than a great speaker. And so for me now, sitting and listening is I learned that from reading, I learned that from understanding I learned that from just watching. And I’m able to give my clients I don’t have to speak in long sentences, I’m able to say to my clients, have you thought about this? And then I finished the sentence and they go oh, yeah, that’s exactly what I need right now.
David Ralph [15:58]
Oh, I hate people like you lolly. I went, I went through corporate life. And I used to be in board meetings. And it’s funny in this job, my wife always says, I can’t believe that you’re such a good listener being a podcast host, because generally I don’t listen to a word he says. And when I was in corporate land, if I was in a board meeting, I would have to fill in the blanks, if there was a silence, it would be me. And I would say, probably 20% of what I said was amazing. And 80%, he was just to fill in the blanks. But people don’t you would sit there and not say anything, and then come out with the gold. And I used to think, Oh, I wish I could be there that I wish I could just hang back, hang back home back and bang, go for it. It is a real talent, isn’t it?
Lolly Daskal [16:37]
It’s a it’s the for me, the trick is listening. And it’s funny that your show is called connecting the dots because that’s what I do. When you listen, you could really connect the dots of what everybody’s saying, take the golden nuggets from everybody saying and then say the one thing that connects it all. And people say, Oh my god, she’s so smart. And so I don’t know what accent that was. But I just it was just like, yeah, I think listening is a great tool. But most people spend their time they wanting to talk they want to answer and there’s nothing against that. That’s their style. I found that I can go further by listening.
David Ralph [17:11]
Well, when you do listen, obviously, because what you were saying is quite true. I listened intently on this show. And I come out with sort of insights into people’s personality, which is like I’ve been living in their sock drawer for years spying on them. But it’s only because they’re telling you stuff which they haven’t really connected themselves, their free flowing conversation. They’re not really thinking about it. And it’s not until you bang it back to them. But it kind of makes sense. Do you find that is a truth in your coaching and your leadership that people generally do know the answers, they just need you as a mirror to sort of reflected back on them
Lolly Daskal [17:50]
absolutely couldn’t have been more true. Most people are so distracted in their lives, they don’t take the time to reflect. And so they’re always going one step, you know ahead ahead ahead, I have to do this, I have to do this. It’s the moments that we stop and we reflect, I have an exercise that I do with my clients, where I call it the lifeline, where I have them write down every couple of years from very early on, what are their achievements? Or what are their failures that they’ve done? And we do this timeline. And then I say to them after they’re done with the timeline, look back at all your failures, and what have your failures brought you. And I always say in the abyss, there are the treasures, what happened in those really difficult times that right now serve you in a way that you never knew possible. And every single time without fail, and I’ve done this thousands and thousands of time, people say, oh, that failure brought me this, that failure brought me that that breakup brought me that and it’s in the quieting, it’s in the reflecting it’s taking the moments to look back, that we’re able to connect with Arts in a way that we normally wouldn’t do it. And people don’t spend the time doing this.
David Ralph [19:05]
We do the same thing for join up dots. We call it black dots and white dots. And basically you you do the same thing. You You diary your whole year or every month. And you know all that was dreadful. That was dreadful. I thought she was I thought I was going to end up dating Katy Perry. But when I walked in there it was somebody, it wasn’t anything like a and you think it’s dreadful. But then when you get two years or three years or even a few months away from it, you realize that actually if I hadn’t have happened, I wouldn’t have gone to the end of the bar and met that other person who then put me into that it all leads on doesn’t it. And I think when you trust that and you just allow yourself to go through life’s crap without beating yourself up. It’s like the journey lots of journeys enjoyable. I used to say that I was the luckiest person in the world lolly if I if I came to an airport, I would stroll up and the last higher car was just waiting for me. Everybody else would be struggling and I’ll just go up, get a car. And even to the day, I have a parking Angel, but I can drive anywhere. And I just believe totally that is going to be a parking space. And I will breeze up and sometimes there’s a car in it. And my wife goes haha yeah, I enjoy is not there. I’m in the car pulls out and I go straight in where she goes round and round and round and round. So is it a case of you know, we are making life too hard for ourselves, we we are wanting to beat ourselves up when we should just go, Hey, it is what it is. Because Because of this is going to be great for us down the line.
Lolly Daskal [20:32]
You know, I always believe that sometimes we have to let go to let something come in. If we hold something too tight, we squeeze the air out of it. So the way I feel that you live your life is that you believe and you have this knowing and you just trust it. And so that’s it’s almost like an intuitive life. The science of intuitive says that you know and you believe and you have this knowledge that if you’re going to pull up it’s going to happen. Most people have a very hard time living that way because they need more control. They want control. So the lesson here and listening to what you just said is if we can let go a little bit let go and allow things to happen to us. extraordinary things can happen.
David Ralph [21:17]
I was so hoping that you were going to burst into the theme from Frozen there for a moment. I
Lolly Daskal [21:22]
don’t know frozen. What’s the theme? Let it go
David Ralph [21:26]
Let it go. You must have heard that every child from here to Bora Bora sings that when I walked past him.
Lolly Daskal [21:33]
I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m listening to opera here in New York. I’m not listening to frozen. I’m doing La Boheme. Can we do that, that we
David Ralph [21:42]
think from rent, we can do that. And I’ll tell you what, I can introduce you to a new york opera singer Elizabeth, try on. She’s brilliant. She’s fun. You too would be amazing together.
Lolly Daskal [21:54]
Oh, I would love that I love opera. I’m usually I usually go by myself because I can’t get anybody to go with me.
David Ralph [22:01]
I will connect you with Elizabeth. She’s one of the light she she does. Opera, she does comedy she she’s a person to get to know. Now before we move you on to the next stage of the conversation, obviously talking about your learnings. In your new book, let’s play some motivational words for each of us perfectly into that place. He’s Jim Carrey,
Jim Carrey [22:19]
my father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love
David Ralph [22:46]
about you words that everyone should live by, or a kind of too simplistic, do you think?
Lolly Daskal [22:52]
I don’t think they’re simplistic at all. I think they’re profound. You know, people think that comedians don’t have a serious thought, if you ever spend time with a comedian, they are the most serious people that I have ever been around what they do, they’re very good at self reflection. And they’re very good at connecting the dots. And then they take the most painful thing. And they tried to communicate it but with humor. And I think what he says is profound.
David Ralph [23:19]
And so do you do that in your own life? Do you take areas that may be? Because it is a truth, again, about the most miserable things in our life? When you get far enough from other stories that we want to share all the time? Because we find the humor in them? We’ve had terrible times. Do you do that yourself? Do you find yourself sitting in bars telling people these incredibly amusing story which literally brought you to your knees when he was going through it?
Lolly Daskal [23:45]
I actually don’t. Um, it’s interesting, because, you know, I’ve been in my business for so long, and I’ve been very, I’ve been groomed. Let’s put it this way. I’ve been groomed to really listen. So I if I’m in a bar, I’m the one listening. I’m the one you’re telling your life story to that you’ve never told anyone. I’m the one over dinner that you go. I never told anyone I can’t believe I’m telling you this lolly. I’m that person. And so I do usually the listening and I asked a little question and then it gets the person with the floodgates opening up and saying all this is what’s going on in my life. I can’t believe I’m telling you that I’m talking to you. It’s that kind of thing.
David Ralph [24:24]
Now, in my life, I’ve been sharing this a lot. I had a situation last year that I had some weird kind of be honest, and it was traumatic. It was beyond traumatic. And now I can’t stop telling people I’m telling the movement, I’m telling any person who’s likely to listen, I just can’t stop should I be holding this thing in or do I just need to get it out until I don’t need to talk about it anymore.
Lolly Daskal [24:46]
I don’t think you should hold back anything. If you have a need to talk, if you have a need to tell a story, then you tell it as many people that will listen, this works for you, every single person is different. But I do want to say for the quiet ones. And the introverts like me, it’s very important to find someone that you do trust, it doesn’t have to be everybody in the bar. And it doesn’t have to be the milkman, but it has to be that one person that you can open up. Because usually if you’re a great listener, you’re holding a lot of secrets, find out who’s that one person that you can trust that you can tell your secrets to white. So
David Ralph [25:21]
let’s let’s turn it now on to your new book, because I was fascinated when I started looking at this the leadership gap, what gets between you and your greatness. Now, as we said in the introduction, very few executives reach a point and keep it going where performance suffers. And you don’t just see it in sort of business you see it in, in music, you see it in sportsman they get to the top and then they just can’t sort of maintain it, is it not that they just get tired, but they just get tired of the climb. And at the end, they just sort of sit around open a bag of sweets and sort of look around the wall.
Lolly Daskal [26:00]
Absolutely not. And I think you don’t have to be a big business person to understand what happens to us, this happens to anybody at any age, it could happen between the ages of 1314 as youngest six and seven, and it happens to the 90 year old is that we know what we do well, and we keep doing it and doing it and doing it. But then sometimes those same wonderful skills stop working for us. And if we’re not mindful of them, we’re not reflective about that they can end up costing us and what we really want in life. And I saw this to be true. And every single person that I’ve ever coached and their thousands of thousands of people, what I’ve noticed is, is that there are seven kinds of personas that live within us, every single one of us, it’s I don’t think anybody says oh, that’s not me. And what I’ve also found that within those personas within those archetypes that exists within us, there is this gap. And every single person that I’ve put through my coaching system says to me, how do you know me? That is me? How do you know me? So Well, what I found is that we’re all the same. within us, we’re all the same, and we have the same parts, they just get expressed differently. And if we’re not mindful, those gaps, those things that I talked about, can really, really end up having us chase what we want without getting what we really need.
David Ralph [27:20]
So should we just ignore the gaps and just focus on the bits in between? Because that that is where action occurs? That is where our future is being led?
Lolly Daskal [27:32]
How do you say it in your country? poppycock? Absolutely not. I think it’s very important to know that we are a whole person, we cannot ignore parts of ourselves. We can’t say all the parts that are weak within us we shouldn’t pay attention to, I believe, is that we have to leverage that. And what I if I could if I could go through one archetype, you’ll understand immediately what I mean? Do I have permission to do that?
David Ralph [27:55]
You can as long as I have permission to say that no one says poppycock in the United Kingdom. Not Know, even the queen, I imagine, says popi I just want to put you straight there.
Lolly Daskal [28:06]
What do they say when it’s when it’s bs? What do they say?
David Ralph [28:11]
I will tell you afterwards. It’s a family show. But I will tell you afterwards.
Lolly Daskal [28:15]
Okay, so let me explain what this sounds like and looks like. And you tell me if this is not you, because it’s definitely me. So there are people out in the world. And I would say everyone who wants to do something magnificent in the world in their own way, they want to make an impact. They want to make a difference, maybe not, you know, in a magnificent way, but just maybe even in a little way to someone to themselves. And in order to do that, I have found that you need to have the characteristics is having confidence because you need to say I can do this, I know that I could make a difference. I know that I can make an impact. But there is a gap. And the gap is for every person that I call a rebel who has confidence. There is an imposter who has self doubt. And the imposter says me, I can’t do that. I’m not worthy enough. I’m not smart enough. I’m not deserving enough. I can’t do that. And so these little aspects about yourself, they keep you playing small that say to you, you cannot do it that have negative thoughts and negative sayings will cost you and being the rebel that is confident out in the world. And I know this is true for me. I don’t know if it’s true for you. But it’s true for me. And knowing this, knowing this little dichotomy between the rebel and the imposter, I have a choice. And the choice is to ask myself, do I want to stand in my greatness? Which is the rebel? Or do I want to lead from my gaps, which is the imposter, just by asking that we shift within our mind to instead of going negative, we can go positive. And we can tap into our confidence to do what we need to do. And that’s why this system works by new knowing this system, we can shift instantaneously to who we want to be.
David Ralph [30:04]
I agree with that. Totally. And I think we Yeah, I certainly do deal with the imposter syndrome. Not when I’m doing this. Funnily enough when I’m doing this. Nobody listens is lolly. But I think to myself, this is it. This is it. This is what I do this is you know, no one’s going to stop me. But it’s the bits when I’m sort of like, just not on the microphone, and I’m just sort of in my world and sitting behind the computer. That’s when the doubts creeping. I always wonder what it must be like to become the president of America. Unless, of course you a lunatic like Trump, and then this doesn’t apply. But anything up to Trump’s point, that you’re saying to people, I’m going to be the best, I’m going to do this, I’m going to do that. And you’ve never even stepped through the door. And then you’re basically telling people what you’re going to do before you get there, even if you don’t believe it. And then you get there. And everyone’s looking at you saying right, Mr. President, what you’re going to do about this, that must be a terrible job, my snake because there must be doubts bear that you think I can’t pull this off? I you know, I’ve never done this before for maybe after eight years, you’ve got a good job, Steve on it. But on those first few years or few weeks must be dreadful, isn’t it?
Lolly Daskal [31:07]
You know, I think they should take a cue from what’s his name Steve Jobs. We know what Steve Jobs always did. Steve Jobs always surrounded himself with a plus players, people that were smarter than he was. And so he could learn from them, and in turn, be a very smart individual. I think if anybody’s going to take a high position is going to do something that puts them out of their comfort zone, surround yourself with a plus people. And then you could learn from them. You can exude from them their knowledge, and then you can become that yourself.
David Ralph [31:39]
Oh, I agree with you totally. And this isn’t a political show. But I do Google Donald Trump every day to see what silly stuff he’s done. I tweet.
Lolly Daskal [31:47]
Please don’t. I mean, if you say you’re not watching the news, that’s one piece of news you shouldn’t watch in a way you should only because we have you know, people tend to tune out when things get too tough, when things get overwhelming. But I think now in our histories and opportunity to really step forward. One of them. archetypes that I was talking about is to be the hero who has courage, or the bystander who’s fearful, I think people right now that are standing by and not doing anything and not saying anything, and are just saying let me watch. Let me watch. I think right now in our history, I’m calling upon the heroes that are out there that could make change in the world. We need courageous people that say, this is not America. This is not what we stand for. We are a country of, you know, my father’s weren’t born here. My uncle’s weren’t born here. We all came here as immigrants. And we’re all in here together. And we must stand together against someone who doesn’t believe in us. We need heroes right now more than ever.
David Ralph [32:48]
But you did you know, this is going to be slightly political just for a moment or two, because I’m not getting away from this. But you did have a leader and I can’t remember her name. But it was that lady who stood up and to him and said, No, I’m not going to allow this to go through because it’s my job to protect the Constitution. You know, and Ben, he got rid of it. Whatever name was Sally, something that maybe
Lolly Daskal [33:07]
he got rid of every woman that spoke up he got rid of there’s more than one he and now you can’t hear from them. They’ve been quiet. He’s scared them. That’s why I’m saying we need the heroes. We need a bunch of heroes to band together and say, This is not about an agenda. This is not about I can’t even say the words I want to say this is not about your lower parts of your body who’s bigger down there. It’s about your brain. It’s about you know, leadership is about caring about others, not about yourself. true leadership is not saying I am the authority, I am Here I am influence you’ll do it my way or the highway. That is not true leadership. true leadership is is that you say how can I make the lives of those that I lead better? And if you’re not saying that you’re not a leader, and it sounds like right now, and I don’t want to talk politics, but I guess we are talking about politics, but this is not leadership. This is we don’t know when he tells the truth. We cannot trust him. We cannot rely on him. He’s not loyal. He’s not courageous. He deals like an imposter. He is a leader that is leading from the leadership gap, every single persona that is from the gap. he embodies
David Ralph [34:23]
that this is interesting, but we’re going to come away from politics. So is this the case that he’s a businessman, and isn’t a leader so there’s somebody like, you know, where we always bought fondly of Barack. Now I don’t know really, because I speak to some Americans. I love them. Some people didn’t. But over here in the United Kingdom, we thought he seemed a pretty good guy. So we we sort of bought into what he was doing Trumpy. We just think that he’s a lunatic with funny hair. Is it because he’s a businessman at heart. So he’s been used to like pushing people around for years and years and years to get his own way is that where he’s leadership has gone askew somehow,
Lolly Daskal [34:57]
okay, let’s not give them any credit and call him a businessman. Because if you know his track record of a businessman, he doesn’t pay his bills, he doesn’t pay as contractors, he believes people, he’ll hire you, he won’t pay you. And then when you’re going bankrupt, he’ll say, oh, I’ll take you back. But I’ll cut down on your prices. That is not a businessman. So let’s not give him the credit of being that he thinks he’s a great businessman, because he’ll pride himself, he’ll talk about how you come after me, and I’ll cut you down into smaller pieces. You say things about me, and I’ll do this to you. He’s a bully. He’s not a businessman. And when bullies get the upper hand, people tend to shy away. And I think again, and I’ll say this, again, we need people to band together and say enough is enough. This is not who we are. And the reason why people liked Obama is you if you maybe didn’t like his policies, maybe he didn’t like what he did. But guess what, he was a man of integrity. And when you have a man of integrity, you kind of trust them. You say, Okay, I I can put my I can put my life in his hands. with Donald Trump, you cannot do that you can I think everybody that I talked to hasn’t isn’t high anxiety, about what is he going to do tomorrow? That and it’s always worse than what he did yesterday. And it’s in 75 days of his leadership, and it is presidency. And it keeps getting worse and worse and worse.
David Ralph [36:23]
Well, let’s take you to a positive state of affairs. Yes, please. Yes, let’s bring it back to where I want to be. So you must go into lots of corporations. Well, you have done and you must, you must discover many people that quite frankly, have got to the top showing those practices that we were just talking about that, you know, very, very leaders by position more than desire. Now, I always used to think that leadership was about making people want to do stuff because they wanted to do it. They wanted to follow you they would they would do their work because of the way that you made them feel. How do you deal with those leaders when you get there, and they’re, they’re just the bully boys have worked their way up to the top.
Lolly Daskal [37:05]
So interestingly enough, I never had someone who was a bully, hire me. And I usually get hired by the board and says, go fix him, you know? And then I show up, and he’s like, what are you doing here, I don’t want to talk to you. And I always say to them in the very first meeting, I don’t have to be here, the choice is yours, I could leave, but you’ll be out of a job. I can stay and you could have your job and make an impact. The choice is yours, which do you want. And I think it’s, it’s almost like come to Jesus moment for them that this gal means business, and that the choice will have to be theirs because I don’t need to be there. And once they agree that they want things to be different. They never say on the problem, trust me, the bullies never say oh, I’m going to change. But in the process of working with them, I always let them know that it has to change from the top is that you need to lead by example. You need to lead from within in order to get the kind of results in order to cut to get the kind of the success that you want. So unless I have a buy in from the leader, I’m not coaching them.
David Ralph [38:12]
Well, we see in the see the Gordon Ramsay programs, when he goes into a kitchen and it’s failing badly, the whole restaurants failing badly. And even though they’ve invited him in, they fight against him and everything that he says for the first two or three days it’s battle battle battle. Is it like? Because I imagine I wouldn’t like to do your job lolly. I think about it, I think, Oh, I couldn’t be bothered, I would just you know, be battling against somebody all the time. Is it like that? Or do you use your female ways to sort of ease your way through?
Lolly Daskal [38:41]
So I don’t use my female ways, but I use my smart ways. I use the sign. No, I think that men can use this to it’s it’s not a gender thing. I just think it’s tapping in to the person and looking at them and thinking or, or asking them. What is that that leads you to do what you do what is you know, one of the questions that I love to ask my clients is, why do you do what you do? Right, and then they start telling you these beautiful stories. My mom did this. My mom was sick. My dad wanted this look at Jim Carrey. Jim Carrey his father wanted to be a comedian, and he ended up being an accountant. But guess what, Jim Carrey now is a comedian. And so once you find out what what is their driver, you’re able to connect in a way that crosses all kinds of what I call distractions or things, why they tell people what they do. And every bully has a story. And every leader that is failing has a story. And if I can connect to that, I have a better chance of having them say yes to me, I want to work with you.
David Ralph [39:47]
So you are like a live version of join up dots. You get out there and you get people to connect with their younger self, their, their teenage self to actually see where it started to occur where the story was starting to be written.
Lolly Daskal [40:02]
It’s like, why are you doing what you do today? What drove you to do what you’re doing today? And if I can get that wonderful piece of story, everything is a game changer for them. They say, wow, I never thought of it that way. Yes. That’s why I do this. And it means so much to me. Well, it means so much to you. Don’t you want to do well in this job? And he they go Yes. And you go Good. Let’s do this together. It’s it’s not it’s not female? It’s just I think you do it too, right?
David Ralph [40:31]
Oh, I do. Yeah, no, absolutely. I, I’ve been very lucky to be intuitive with people, I used to be a financial trainer. And so I used to do induction courses where I would have to meet people on their very first day. And then over three or four days, turn them into a staff member to sort of push them out into the office. And I spent many, many years doing it. And I could literally get the vibe of somebody within seconds of meeting them. And we used to have this walk from the reception where they come to the company to the training room, which was about a minute and a half. And by that time I got them. I’ve got them totally. And it was like, you know, we were friends for life after that. Funnily enough, most of them I didn’t really like but it didn’t matter. They they fought but I kind of like I bridge that gap between where they were to where they wanted to be. And I was that kind of that that grease in between. So I do think that that psychological piece that you work on, I think is fundamental and I but I do think when you why I said to you, isn’t it a woman thing? I think women are better at it. I think women allow themselves to, to ease the questions that are mixed with emotion where main kind of bulldozer way through somehow.
Lolly Daskal [41:43]
I think I’m one of the archetypes that I always talk about is the navigator or the fixer. The navigator is a listener. The navigator is smart, the navigator is practical and pragmatic. And they only navigate even though they know the answers opposed to the fixer who wants to come in and say do this, do this do that. I think the smartest people are ones that empower people, instead of the fixer that disempowered people we know this in our marriages, when let’s say our spouses come to us and say I have a problem. And the moment you jump into fix, they roll their eyes and they go, that’s not what I wanted. All they want you to do is to really listen. And I know I’ve said this a couple of times today on this podcast, but if you listening has its really beautiful treasures because it allows you to be there for someone in a way that they really want. And if let’s say someone comes to you with a challenge, right, and you say, Well, what have you thought that you know, what do you think you could do just an open ended question and in staring them towards what they know they can do really gets them to be empowered, and they end up really trusting you and loving you even more. So learn to be more of a navigator instead of a fixer in your life. And that’s what I’ve learned to do.
David Ralph [42:54]
I’ve been that’s true as well, just the other night, my wife has been having a bad time at work. And she said Can Can Can we talking to said Yeah, no problem at all. So we sat there, and my, my core is, you know, if somebody is upsetting my kids, right? I’m going to go down there, I’m going to go down there and fix them for you. And you’ll never, you know, I just feel bad with me. So so protective thing. And this night, I just kind of sat there and I listened to and I chipped in every now and again. And at the end of it. She said thank you so much. I feel better now. You know, thanks for listening, I didn’t really do anything. I just kind of sat there for 10 minutes, thinking I’m missing the football here. I’m missing the football for you. But I still did it. So it is it is strange, isn’t it why people bring you a problem, but they don’t actually want it solved. It’s kind of as we said at the beginning, people always know the answers, they need the mirror to reflect back on them.
Lolly Daskal [43:40]
And you know how I know that’s true. I’ll tell you how I know that is true. Because if somebody came to them with the same problem they have guess what they will do? They would jump in and tell them you need to do this, you need to do that, right? It’s so much easier to tell other people what to do, because you have the answer within yourself. But when you’re going through it yourself, you can if you need help you need somebody to remind you that you have the answers.
David Ralph [44:04]
So your book, the leadership gap, what kind of people will be lashing out to buy? What What is your sort of avatar for a reader?
Lolly Daskal [44:13]
You know, it’s a great question, according to my publisher, its leaders. But according to me, this is a system for life. This is for any single person that you care about. Because if you learn the system of the seven archetypes like we talked about the rebel and the imposter or the navigator, and the fixer, as you said, it helped your marriage, it helps anybody that wants to correct you know, that wants greatness in their lives. It’s for I think it’s a lot. It’s a life code. And it will teach you how to be the great thing about this is is that it’s not that you’re one archetype and not another, the great thing, it’s situational. So if you have a situation that you need to be a certain person, you could ask yourself, do I need to be the truth teller? Or will I come up process the deceiver? Will I stand in my greatness all I lead by my gaps? And knowing this system? I believe it’s for everyone. I believe it’s for businessmen and women. It’s for people that you care about. So the long answer is everyone.
David Ralph [45:15]
Well, I’ll tell you what, you’re gonna make a few sales on that your Amazon sales are going to go through the roof, you’re marketing to everyone.
Lolly Daskal [45:22]
I think it’s everyone. But that’s against marketing to say everyone, but the thing is, you’ll enjoy the stories because you’ll get a peek into the high powered individuals that are out there in business. But guess what, you’re going to realize that every single person suffers from the same thing. Inside, we’re all the same inside we have the same wants and needs. But you’ll get to see that not only do you suffer from this, but someone who runs a fortune 500 company suffers just as much. And I think it will make you feel better about how much you struggle.
David Ralph [45:55]
Brilliant stuff. Well, let’s play the words. Now from somebody who certainly did struggle he’s notice don’t go with us. But his legacy will be with us, even if it’s just these words forever,
Steve Jobs [46:04]
is Steve Jobs. Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards. 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leaves you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [46:40]
Now I’m sure you’ve heard those words before. But the did I mean something to you, when you listen to them? Do you think Yeah, I can apply those to my own life.
Lolly Daskal [46:49]
I’m so moved by that I’ve I have heard it before. And when something is truth, you can listen to it over and over and over again. If people have not been able to connect the dots, if people feel like they don’t, they can trust where they’re going. I think they should play that as their mantra every single day, in order to ground themselves in that truth. It’s true. You cannot look at we’re all the things moving forward. But if you do peek behind, you’ll realize how everything is making sense. And do I use it in my life all the time?
David Ralph [47:20]
So So when did your life start to make sense? We call it the big dots in your timeline. When you look back on anything. Yeah, that’s when it really, I became the lever I was working towards.
Lolly Daskal [47:33]
So we talked about it a little bit earlier, I said that, you know, I didn’t wake up one morning and say I’m going to be a coach, right? Haha, lolly coach, I’m going to be a business consultant. I’m going to live on a plane, a train and an automobile every single week and month and day. But it was this moment, I was teaching a workshop. And someone came over and asked me a question. And at that time, I wanted to live very quietly and do my own thing. And, yes, if I would have a client, it would be fine. I like to paint I wanted to paint and I was thinking a very easy life. And this client was a big businessman. And he had a problem. And he came and he asked me a question, do you think you could help me solve this problem? And I’ll never forget, I said to him, the answer that you need is within you. But I’m going to help you find it. And he looked at me like I was Cuckoo. And and I started to be the navigator, right? Because I was inquisitive. And I and I wanted him to feel empowered. And I knew that I was doing this without even knowing I was doing this. It just came naturally to me. And when we were done when when our conversation was done, he said, I need you in my life. I cannot live without you. I need what you have. And he was the person that actually started my business. He was the catalyst of my business because he started to recommend me to others. At when he started to do that. I have to be honest, I was a little scared. I had this little imposter within me that said, You can’t do this. This is not about you. And then I said, guess what it is about you, you have a gift, you have a certain way of asking certain questions that make people feel empowered, just do it. And it was that little moment between thinking I didn’t feel deserving or worthy. And the moment saying just do it and connecting those dots that my life took off that my business took off. And now anything that comes my way where I feel like oh, not him, and I go, yeah, I can do this. I’ve done it before. Let me do it again. So it’s believing that where you’re you’re being led is where you’re meant to be, is very important.
David Ralph [49:45]
And once you step through that you can never go back. And yeah, that’s the thing about comfort zone. I talk a lot about this, you know, in the early days of joining up dots I used to have guests come through to me, and I used to look at their pictures, it is a weird to admit this, I don’t think I’ve ever admitted this on the show. But I used to see the pictures. And sometimes I was scared of them just by their picture. And I used to think, Oh my god, I don’t really want to talk to this person. And then it sort of grew and I got more comfortable. And then I had some reasonably high profile people come through to me. And I think oh boy, me, I don’t think I’m up to this. I don’t think I’m up to this, I’m just going to sort of push through. But now I just kind of turn it on and just do two things. And more often than not, the shows have become stronger because of it. You know, once you open that door in your comfort zone and you step through, it shuts behind you and you can never go back.
Lolly Daskal [50:30]
Okay, so were you scared of my picture? Honestly, honestly, a little bit
David Ralph [50:35]
a little bit. Yeah. Because it’s that dark kind of you do take that. It’s weird, isn’t it just to look at a picture that you’ve never seen before and kind of get this opinion on people. But I used to do that a lot. And I don’t anymore as much except for you. I’m rambling? Well, this is the end of the show. And this is the bit that we’ve been building up to that we caught the Sermon on the mic when we send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the young lolly, what age would you choose? And what advice would you give? Well, I’m going to play the theme. And when it fade, Europe, this is the Sermon on the mic
Lolly Daskal [51:20]
So when I first started my business, I thought that I had to be perfect. And I had this inner fight with be perfect, be perfect, be perfect if you’re going to be successful, be perfect. And it exhausted me because guess what? Perfect isn’t real. And so this was in my early 20s, that I made a very distinct decision. And it was lolly you could never be perfect. But you could always strive for excellence. And I’ve been using that in my business every single day. The idea of not having to be perfect, which isn’t real allowed me to unleash the best of what I have to offer and not worry about the imperfections. I make mistakes. I mess up. I haven’t done it always the right way. But guess what, each time I strive for excellence and that is good enough. And that is the best thing that I learned at a very early age when I first started out, and it is the best thing that has brought me to where I am today. It’s something that I wish I would have told myself earlier, but it came at the right time. And now I’m listening.
David Ralph [52:48]
Perfect stuff. lonely. What’s the number one best way for our audience who’ve been listening today can connect with you?
Lolly Daskal [52:54]
Well, I’d like to say two things if they want if they’re interested in the book because it’s for everyone. They should find me at the leadership gap book calm. And if they want to find all the articles and thousands of articles that I write and they want to find out where I am and what I’m doing. You can find me at lolly daskal.com
David Ralph [53:14]
will have all the links on the show notes. lolly thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining those dots. Please come back again when you have more dots to join up. Because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. lolly Daskal. Thank you so much.
Lolly Daskal [53:30]
Thank you What an honor to be here today. Thank you.
David Ralph [53:36]
Lovely Daskal who really cemented the whole thing of join up dark space in you, your talents in you your skills are in you. You just need to shake up the imposter syndrome and start working towards your future and little by little it’s just one step after another I probably say the same thing time and time again on join us. But it’s true. It is absolutely true. None of us have all the answers at the beginning. But in our way we have all the answers. We just need to drag them out of this. Thank you so much for listening. to be a thank you so much for lolly being part of the show where she was more than part of the show. She was the show. And until next week, we’ll see you again cheers
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you are wants to become so he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to join up.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on join up dots.
Lolly Daskal Ted Talk