Misha Rubin Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast
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Introducing Misha Rubin
Misha Rubin is todays guest joining us on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots business podcast.
Misha Rubin provides transformational career programs which are designed for people to discover careers that bring a sense of meaning, fulfilment, and abundance.
Until recently, he was a partner at a “Big Four” management consulting firm, where he spent 15 glorious years.
He managed $100M+ worth of projects; navigated dozens of corporate cultures; advised hundreds of clients; guided hundreds of careers.
His corporate experience combined with his experience studying with many profound teachers and his personal quest for meaning and fulfilment; birthed The Career Leap method, a guided inquiry that brings awareness to the deep parts of oneself, creates new career possibilities and moves individuals into action.
How The Dots Joined Up For Misha
Now his mission is to transform the paradigm of career and work in our society – specifically the why and how, and the where and what people do – so that they fulfil their life’s work
and realize their full potential while experiencing a sense of meaning, satisfaction, and abundance.
As he says “While being a busy-bee management consultant, I released a music album of my original songs “Are We Ready” (under Misha Lyuve), developed a jewellery line, wrote a blog, travelled the world, adopted first twins from birth and then a 5-year old, and expressed my passion about children causes as a board member of Worldwide Orphans.
In my spiritual and personal transformation work, I’ve been a committed student of incredible educational organizations and masters, including Landmark Worldwide, Clairvision School of Meditation, Sophie McLean, Eckhart Tolle, Michael Singer, David Deida, Osho among others.
Lastly, I have a BA in Computer Science & Math from NYU and completed Harvard Leadership Program.
So the big question is of course how do people find work they should be doing in life?
And is it simply following the heart and hoping that it all falls into place?
Well lets find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Misha Rubin
During the show we discussed such deep subjects with Misha Rubin such as:
How Misha recalls wishing to be told to halt and pause before he started following his heart to where he wants to be. Which he never did.
Misha tells a story of how during a meeting in his corporate leap, heard his quiet voice speak up loud and clear telling him where to head.
Why the world should have the desire to truly understand our career values
We discuss the career rebel and how when it arrives you have to take a stand and truly allow it to create its own future.
How To Connect With Misha Rubin
You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here– enjoy
Full Transcription Of Misha Rubin Interview
Life shouldn’t be hard life should be a fun filled adventure every day. So now start joining up dots tap into your talents, your skills, your God given gifts and tell your boss, you don’t deserve me. I’m out of here. It’s time for you to smash that alarm clock and start getting the dream business and life you will, of course, are dreaming God. Let’s join your host, David Ralph from the back of his garden in the UK, or wherever he might be today with another jam packed episode of the number one hit podcast. Join Up Dots.
David Ralph [0:41]
Yes, hello, Matt. Good morning to Well, good morning to Well, it’s a good day to be alive. It really is. So thank you so much for being here with us on Join Up Dots. And we’re gonna have a fascinating conversation today. Because we’ve had similar people on the show over the last sort of six months or so this guy’s got a different angle, which is why I wanted to have him on the show. He provides transformational career programmes which are designed for people to discover careers that bring a sense of meaning, fulfilment and abundance. Now until recently, he was a partner at a big for a management consulting firm where he spent 15 glorious years, and he managed $100 million worth of projects, navigated dozens of corporate cultures, advised hundreds of clients and guided hundreds of careers. Now his corporate experience combined with his experience studying with many profound teachers, and also his personal quest for meaning and fulfilment, birthed his company, but career leap method, a guided inquiry that brings awareness to the deep parts of oneself, creates new career possibilities, and moves individuals into action. Now, his mission is to transform the paradigm of career and work in our society, specifically, but why and how and where and what people do so that they fulfil their life’s work and realise their full potential while experiencing a sense of meaning, satisfaction and abundance. As he says while being a busy bee management consultant, I released a music album of original songs are we ready, developed a jewellery line wrote a blog travelled the world adopted first twins from birth and then a five year old and express my passion about children. Schools is as a board member of worldwide orphans and in my spiritual and personal transformation work. I’ve been a committed student of incredible educational organisations and masters, including the clear vision School of meditation. Eckhart Tolle a Michael singer, David deida, Osho, manga others. This is weird bignor. He’s also got a BA in computer science and math from NYU and completed Harvard leadership programme. I’ll explain why I think that’s weird later. So the big question is, of course, how do people find work, but they should really be doing in life and not just drift from one opportunity to another that lands in front of him? And he says simply following the heart and hoping that it all falls into place, or something much deeper? Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr. Misha Rubin.
Misha Rubin [3:23]
I am great. That was actually fascinating to hear you talking like hearing my mission from your mouth was like amazing.
David Ralph [3:33]
Well, it is amazing. And it’s amazing on so many things. And one of the things I want to jump in straight away, and I said it was a bit weird is because you’re obviously somebody that is a spiritual person, and you’ve had personal transformation. But you’ve also got a computer science and math degree. And so you’ve kind of got two halves to your brain. Was the earlier one a computer science and math Was that something that you felt you should do more than one that you easily was drawn into?
Misha Rubin [4:04]
So I was always fascinating with math. So it’s just really you know, when normal kids in the summer, we’re doing so sports or travelling, I loved my math problems. I could sit at the beach and solve math problems. I always loved math. And then computer science. That’s actually a very interesting question because I’m an immigrant from Ukraine. So we all as humans are living inside of certain network of conversations that happens in our community, and we inherit them. So as an Russian speaking immigrant in 1990s, when you immigrate to the United States, specifically to New York, this is the conversation that you inherit, you need to study something practical like computer science, there’s a lot of computer science jobs. You need to study and finish your studies as soon as possible and start working as soon as possible. And then You go to work on Wall Street, this is kind of so what I wish is that somebody at that time when I was even though I studied computer science, or even before that somebody told me meesha just pause, just think about who you are, what do you really want to do with your life? How do you really want your life to turn out? So and that didn’t happen? So I just followed whatever it was, everybody was doing around me. And that made sense to me at that time,
David Ralph [5:29]
it never happens. me Sure. You know, I went through the school system, as most of us did. And we had career advisors, not worth anything, not worth anything. All they were doing was basically saying, you know, keep your head down, work hard, get a job in a bank. And that was basically the advice. And I remember sitting down with the guy saying, you know, I want to be a pop star, and you know, coin, flights a fancy, but I look back on it now. And it was to creativity. But I was saying, it wasn’t so much the popstar, it was the fact that I don’t want to work in an office, I want to do something that inspires me and fulfils me now as she took me probably 30 years to find podcasting, or podcasting found me ultimately. And that gave me that avenue to be able to create something that was there in the early days, right when I was a young child, so the world doesn’t support, I think the world more often than not puts you into what they feel safe with. And that is genuinely a job for life.
Misha Rubin [6:33]
So this is what I want to transform. So one of my big dreams, this is I’m telling you, my big dream is that the career leap method becomes the gold standard for students to choose their career, I really think that kind of we make this mistake with our very first job, because if you are really want to express something in life, and you understand who you are and your intentions, so and you and there is a path to that. So if you take a job that’s not aligned with that, you kind of already the, if you’re taking a step, first step in like a different direction, that’s where your true path is, you know, is going to be a rocky road, not for filling road, not inspiring road. So this is the first point where people kind of make a mistake. And I think if we could guide people rather there, I think also we live at extraordinary times where the whole concept of people having one career for life is going away. So you need more than just think about what is just my job. And I think also the attitude toward education the way it was in the past that people invested. And you know, I remember even 20 years ago, college was expensive, what considers to be inspect expensive at those times, you but you invested in in you, you were investing for a career for the rest of your life. Right now you’re paying way more. And you also know that whatever you’re studying right now probably is going to be irrelevant, at some point in your career. So the the mindset about career should be just really very different. And understanding yourself and criteria of how you choose your careers, your jobs becomes even more so important.
David Ralph [8:28]
Now I would being devil’s advocate, and I agree with what you’re saying 100%. But being devil’s advocate, I would say that the majority of people out there aren’t brave enough or aware enough to know what they want to do or understand who they are. And understand that they can create an income a lifestyle built around their talents, you know, I can sit down it pubs with 50 year old friends of mine wives, and they will go still don’t know what I want to do. And I think really, really, you know, you’ve had three kids, you’ve had these jobs and stuff and you still don’t know what you want to do. I think that people aren’t brave enough really at its core to say Hang on, like you were saying, I’m going to pause for a moment. I’m going to pull, you know, a classic story. I went through the education system, I came out and my mom said to me what you’re going to be doing and I was about 1516 and I said I’m going to take a year off. I’m going to take a year off to sort of find myself, you know, a gap year she said no, you’re not you’re going to get a job. And she basically wrote the job things sent me off to interview and I got it and I was in and that was 10 years I was in there, you know, I wasn’t brave enough to actually stop and pause and think so it’s a difficult thing you’re suggesting for people isn’t it?
Misha Rubin [9:48]
Actually I look at it differently. I actually we are educated throughout our lifetime on so many topics. We really right now with a lot of information which we truly educated on Anything we want to be educated. And one thing that we are not educated about is how to choose meaningful, fulfilling careers. like nobody teaches us. So that’s why I in my own inquiry, and in my own journey, that’s the question that I had literally, for all my kind of grown up life, why this job is not it? So once I developed the career leap method, that’s the answer to that. So I think if you educate people, if they want to be educated, you could bring awareness. And frankly, I don’t see it as necessarily just a point of being brave, though there was clearly a certain review requirement required. But I think in the college years, it’s really more about how do you know yourself? And how do you have? How do you have clarity about the criteria that basically allows you to evaluate different career opportunities, different job opportunities, and all these different directions, you can take your life and so I personally believe that it’s actually something you can learn. And if there is a method, you can just follow it.
David Ralph [11:09]
Right? Okay, that’s been it and take it away, too. July 2020, which seems to be the time when your business the career leap started. So it was in prime pandemic time. Now, if for anybody listening to this podcast, 10 years down the line, we add a pretty weird 20 go back and Google it, and it’s sort of moved into 21. Now, but many people that would have been Keep your head down, look after your finances, but you decided to start a business at the midst of it right in the middle? What was your thinking?
Misha Rubin [11:46]
So let me tell you a few stories that probably explain what was there for me. So. So I’m sitting in a meeting room, like a real meeting room before pandemic where there are, there are chairs and people in the room, there was a whiteboard, there, ah,
David Ralph [12:03]
Misha Rubin [12:04]
read? Exactly, you can touch them, you can actually write on a whiteboard, and everybody can see. So I’m sitting in that type of a,
David Ralph [12:13]
you mean ISIS jumping in for years, people complained about being touched in offices. And now we’re going to be going back, we’re gonna be fondling everyone, but it’s going to be a three rule.
Misha Rubin [12:24]
So at that moment, I spent about 15 years in in big for a management consulting firm, I’m a partner of making more money than an immigrant from Ukraine could have dreamed dreamed off, I have recognition. And so I’m sitting in this meeting, and we are discussing our next service offering to our clients, which are big banks, like really big banks, the biggest ones, you know, and, and everybody is talking. And here, this is where I hear my work voice that goes like rah, rah rah, and I’m saying something serious. And as I’m saying these words, I hear my quiet voice, the voice that I actually know really well. And it tells me very loudly, what you’re doing here is not aligned with who you are anymore, you’re not going to be doing this. And that was a very confronting moment for me. Because at that moment, I didn’t have clarity about what I would be doing. I didn’t know about that. I had a family, I had three children, you know, like I was very invested into the life that I build. And I had, I also didn’t know that I will come up with a career lead method. down the line, I had a few business ideas that I wanted to pursue, I didn’t know that I will be teaching people about how to find their careers. I didn’t know that I will be chatting here with you on this podcast. I didn’t know any of that. So that was a very unsettling moment of me. But I call it a moment of truth. Because this was a moment where I confronted what I call career mediocrity. And this is the moment where I was willing to live and embrace the unknown. And so six months down the line. And I, as you mentioned, I’m studying a lot with a lot of teachers. So I’ve been doing a lot of work was taking courses and reading books and listening to different things. And one morning, it was in July, and waking up and suddenly, like I literally had a breakthrough. I knew exactly why I didn’t have experience of meaning and fulfilment at my job. I had words for it. I knew how to explain it. And then my next thought, I gotta go and try it on other people. And I literally just posted something on Facebook and I said, Listen, I am starting this quarterly programme and I wasn’t charging anything. So I started with just doing work with people for free. And then I charged like symbolic fee. And then and then my method been developing and growing. And this year, I’m going full speed, I have a three month programme. It’s anyway, it’s been really exhilarating journey. It’s not an easy one but exhilarating one.
David Ralph [15:18]
I had exactly the same story without getting too boring. I was in a business meeting. And they were going around the table with corporate, you know, quarterly targets, and how are we going to plan and I was listening to people talk and thinking, you don’t really care. I know you’re saying it, but you don’t really care. And as it came to me, I thought, I really don’t care. I can’t do this anymore. And it was definitive. I just had to go back, say I’m quitting. And it was it was, and I was actually two days away from getting 1000 pound bonus. And my wife said to me, you know, why didn’t you just say two more days and get the 1000 pounds bonus, but I just knew it was that moment, I had to go, screw this, I’m off. And that was it. I kind of cleared off and, and made things happen afterwards. So that there is that quiet voice isn’t there that comes in so powerfully, but just can’t be ignored when the moment is right. And I think because I was in a business meeting, listening to people drone on that quiet voice had a chance to come through to me.
Misha Rubin [16:19]
Yeah. So you know, let me put some terms because I came up with certain ideas of how to name these different states. So who I was, before I joined this meeting, I called it a competent, unfulfilled professional. And maybe a lot of people might actually recognise themselves. So competent, unfulfilled professional is somebody who is educated enough, intelligent enough, they are good at what they do enough, they successful now for the make money enough. And they not feeling fulfilled at their job right? Now, the moment where you’re willing to confront career mediocrity. I call that person a career rebel at somebody that’s very kind of inner rebellion, it’s between you and you. It’s actually It has nothing to do with your boss, with your job with your opinions about them. It’s something between you and you. But you recognise that what you do and who you are, is just not aligned. And you are willing to face the unknown that you don’t have an answer, that you might have a family or whatever other circumstances you have, that you need to figure out a lot of things and you don’t know how to do it, but you are confronting it. And then my mission in life, you know, is to fill the world with what I call empowered, impactful humans. So those are the people that are doing the type of difference in life that they know they should be doing. They do the work aligned with their values, they show extraordinary example to the next generation of how to live meaningful, fulfilling life. So that’s how I want the world to be and that’s my work is all about that. And the Korean leap method is really, you know, to take a career rebel for somebody who is willing to go on the journey and take them to the empowered, impactful human.
Jim Carrey [18:18]
Let’s see Jim Carrey’s words, my father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.
David Ralph [18:47]
Now, what you did, which was clever was you had a concept in your head and it sounded to me like it wasn’t a problem perfection laid out in front it was just a concept you went over to Facebook, and then you started testing and you tested wet whether anyone was interested, but when you tested it for free, and then you developed it for a small minimal charge to where it is now and that is something that will continue to develop develop as your prices will go up and up and up. Now a lot of people get hung up with creating the most beautiful websites and and marketing stuff before they ever get the concept to help. And it’s the concept that actually brings in the customer isn’t it you know, I always use the Martin Luther King I have a dream no one remembers anything else other than that, and that’s the bit that touches you and draws people into his world. So what did you actually say me show what was your your lane into Facebook land to say I’m going to be doing this who’s coming with me? I have a dream.
Misha Rubin [19:58]
Yeah, so like, even make a few For because that’s not what I started with, because I started exploring a few different business ideas. So I had a different idea about setting up an educational company for retirees and that it transformed. And I started developing that brand. And I work with other teachers, because I actually, frankly, didn’t think that I am the one to teach anybody anything. So then I realised through doing that, that actually the programmes that I was providing are not really just for retirees. So then I created a different brand that for providing transformational programmes for all people, but not just for retirees. And then, so I ended up just working with a lot of amazing teachers. And then suddenly, I had an idea for my teaching. So my point here, even before we talk about website, is, you, it’s good to have something a direction. And if you just follow it, you’re you might not actually fulfil on that particular intention. But you might have other ideas, and you will completely, you know, you will completely refining your idea. So even before I got to the Korea leap, I started a bunch of other things that actually, I still would like to do, and I’m involved with a little bit, and I still would love one day to realise them a bunch of these projects. Now, I have the opposite. You know, like a lot of people complain about procrastination as their curse, right, I have an opposite curse that I have these ideas. As soon as I have an idea, I have this profound urge to start doing something. Yeah, so I’m a big believer in imperfect web sites, every idea that I have, I immediately start a website, it’s not pretty, but it actually helps me to put my ideas clearly, and start thinking about and developing. So I find building your website is one of the easiest way to start developing your concepts. Now, my websites have spelling errors, my websites, because you know, I write with Russian accent, my, my website have things that I know will change my the logos that I designed, you know, any designer will see how unprofessional, ugly they are. I’m not afraid of any of that. I think if you have an idea, go and put it out there and just snow, whatever the idea that you have, it most likely will change, it will evolve. But keep moving here is is I think the most important thing.
David Ralph [22:36]
Now, if I go back in time to Join Up Dots, I’ve been through many different versions. And I think in the early days, there wasn’t any clear direction, it was me growing into myself and becoming more competent. And it’s one of the things that I want the listeners to understand. But even if you have an idea, it’s the tiniest little idea of what is possible. Once you start, because you understand more of the process, you understand more about how things work, you just understand more. And that is the moment when the clarity comes in, and you look around you go, Ah, that’s where I should have been heading I couldn’t see at the time. And then of course, later on, you get another doorway because your understanding moves forwards. Now I want to jump back to a moment where not in this conversation. But we’ve all heard, where Don’t worry about the money, the money will find you as long as you follow your passion. And a lot of people will basically stick two fingers up about or maybe one finger up to say that’s not true. That’s what people say, who’ve got the money. What do you think about it?
Misha Rubin [23:51]
Right. So one thing I want to build on your earlier point is that I think what we don’t realise and what we take for granted, is we living in unprecedented times, that today, you can actually have an idea. There are tools that you can literally build your website in an hour. And there are all these tools like social media that it could be out there, literally the same day. If you think about how what would what it would take to even come up with a business idea and have some type of a realisation of it 30 years ago or 50 years ago, we just need to acknowledge that we live in a very privileged times, but we can literally take a business idea and and realise it instantly. That’s what fascinates me. Now, going back to your question about the money. So this is where I think the problem with the paradigm of thinking that we live in which something that our society is well so there are there are a few different concepts in which people live. One concept is like you need to get a job and make money. And survive, you know, and a lot of people live in that, you know, they got a job and they surviving. And then the other paradigm there are other extreme is that follow your passion follow your passion that’s personally used to drive me crazy because I was like, if I knew what my passion was, yeah, I would be following me, you bad. I just didn’t know what was better. So I was very clear that I was staying at my job that actually wasn’t was great in many ways. And but I knew that it wasn’t aired, and I wasn’t doing anything else, because I clearly just didn’t know what that better thing would be. Now. So that’s why I think it’s important that I have a method that I designed specifically guides people how to discover the so the way that my method works, it starts with awareness. It starts with awareness of self and awareness of self, there are two pieces to it. One, we all harbour disempowering beliefs that we need to dismantle because those beliefs are in a way of us even seeing what our career possibilities are those possibility those disempowering beliefs are in the way of how we show up in the world and what other people think of us. So that’s a big part of what I do is dismantling disempowering beliefs. The second piece is knowing yourself, that’s the second piece knowing of awareness. So for instance, there are actually ingredients of yourself that create a sense of meaning and fulfilment for you wouldn’t be great if you know what they are. So you can actually consciously look for that type of careers, they’re actually ingredients for your success wouldn’t be great that you know, English language, what they are. So you take the type of jobs that actually would set you for success. And there are particularly ingredients of what motivates us wouldn’t be great if you knew that. So you look for the type of a setup in your job that actually is motivating for you. So Wow, that’s an awareness part, which I think is absolutely amazing if that’s where you know, yourself. So now that’s awareness, you can apply to discovery. And the way I work with discovery is that people come up with ideas of where and what they could be doing. So we come up with a map of ideas and in my philosophy, where your work is way more important than what you do. Because if where you work, the industry, the organisation, the leaders are not aligned with your values, it you will never be fulfilled and satisfied a job ever. So in discovery, you can come up with tonnes of ideas and those ideas when I work with my students, there’s a lot of unpredictable ideas, there are some predictable ideas, and some of the predictable it has suddenly become very clear and real.
David Ralph [27:45]
Okay, I’m gonna jump in there measure just for a moment, but the values of the directors and the company that hardly ever matches up with the individuals does it I worked through many different companies. And I always felt like I didn’t gel somehow.
Misha Rubin [28:01]
Right? Yeah, or part of it, because, okay, it’s all starts with people, maybe having a vague sense of what their values are. But as for humans, everything that’s not expressed in language remains very vague. So one of the things that I help people is define their career values. So once you know what they are, you actually have a very clear measuring stick for organisations, for leaders, for industries, so it’s becomes a very black and white, you can be like, why would I even interview for this organisation?
David Ralph [28:37]
And explain what a career value is just so that somebody is out? Because we’ve seen kind of company statements up on walls? But how do you actually bring it into your life? Is it is it explain what career values?
Misha Rubin [28:50]
Okay, so I’ll give you an example of my career values. So my career values are making a difference, clarity, and manifestation. So let me tell you how they express in my life. So making a difference, I’m actually surrounded by people that make a difference. My job right now is 100% making a difference. I am here in this interview to make a difference. That’s kind of the context for all my life. And one of the reasons that I wasn’t fulfilled in many of my job is specifically because that value wasn’t fully realised. So my second value is clarity, by the way that’s very much aligned with eila. Why? Why I love mathematics so much, because mathematics is all about clarity. But I strive for clarity doesn’t mean that I always clear but I strive for clarity. And one of the big thing that I provide with my programme or my big intention is that people are clear about who they are and where they want to go. So that’s completely realised in my current job, and then manifestation. So I manifested a lot of amazing things in my life, including this career for me right now and this way of teaching that I do. And part of what I provide people is so they manifest their career and their job that’s aligned with their values. So this is basically how values work. So now, I can go and evaluate any if somebody offered me a job. So that’s one of the traps that people have in their career. I call it an opportunity trap. So you have a good job or okay job, and then somebody calls you like your ex boss, or your ex colleague or recruiter and says, Hey, this, there’s another job, you will make either more money, or we’ll have more responsibilities, or it will be closer to home or it will be better in some way. So people then take these opportunities, because they seem better. And then one day, like, how did I even end up here? Why they have this question, because they, you have to create opportunities, and your values is actually an amazing way to evaluate whether you should pursue an opportunity or not. And today, there is actually quite a bit of organisations that are value driven, or try really hard to be value driven. So there are many more options, I think exist in the world, you just need to look for them,
David Ralph [31:13]
I definitely was somebody that an opportunity would just flow in front of me, and I’d go, I’m gonna go for that. And more often than not, I could get the job, I was very good in interviews, I was very good, basically, understanding what they were looking for, and just telling them what they wanted to hear. So I genuinely got the job. And the more money that I earned, I equated with the more stress because it wasn’t aligned with who I was. And I knew that when I was in it, and I knew that I shouldn’t be doing it, but I’d got the job. And I was running teams and stuff all the time, we’ve almost stomach ulcers. So that is a sort of real life example of where my career values are basically creativity, and fun, I suppose as two of the main ones. And leadership, I would say the third one didn’t really come in alignment with sort of, I don’t know, targets and sales and the stresses that came with running the soft teams I did.
Misha Rubin [32:11]
So this is what like, like, think back. If if David, if I sit down with you, like whenever you were that corporate job? And, you know, you would tell me meesha actually, and I would ask you, what are your values? And you said, Well, my values are leadership, creativity and fun. And then then if I told you Well, not now it’s a this is a great criteria to see, is this a great job for you? Or whether you looking? Would would would that be helpful for you? Knowing what I actually know, at that time,
David Ralph [32:45]
that at that time, it certainly wouldn’t be if I’d had the career values, I would have said no, this doesn’t align at all, but I just sort of catching, catching, catching and went for it.
Unknown Speaker [32:54]
Misha Rubin [32:57]
So I think people actually knowing their values and wards not like, I think about Korea values as a compass that sits inside of us. And for some people, it is very strong, because we have plenty, also examples of people around us, at least around me that actually did find meaningful, fulfilling careers just without anybody educating them on that subject. Right. So there are some people that have this compact, so strong, that they find a way but for the rest of us, and I would say I’m one of these people, that it took me a while actually to get to understand to put it in words. And then when I put it into words, then the criteria became very clear about the things that I would and wouldn’t do.
David Ralph [33:39]
And one of the things that we’ve changed quite a lot in Join Up Dots over the years at the very beginning, it was all punch your boss in the face and earn your own income and take the career leap. But now I can quite clearly see that a lot of people shouldn’t do that. And Shouldn’t you know do anything other than trying to be happy in the career that I’ve already got? They’re not suited to create their own income, the stresses that come about entrepreneur or life now with yourself you’ve gone from both sides of the fence like I have, has it taken you by surprise the amount of stuff behind the scenes of creating your own income that you just didn’t expect to be there or did you go into it with eyes wide open?
Misha Rubin [34:28]
No, I went to it with naive enthusiasm. And can I tell you I think it’s great. I think if I didn’t have naive enthusiasm, I probably wouldn’t do it at all. But now So listen, everything can be useful benefit and could be a curse. So the naive the benefit of the naive enthusiasm that actually just went for it right. The the the price that I paid is like being slapped on the face. Really, really hard multi all times, including, I’ll be honest, I’m still being slapped on the face. Occasionally. So
David Ralph [35:06]
what do you mean that well financially or have obstacles coming your way? What do you mean by a slap in the face?
Misha Rubin [35:14]
Yes. Something that you think that it would be easy to do, like you have an idea. And I have this clear path, how we would implement it. And then you’re like, Oh my god, it’s actually not that simple. It’s actually way more complicated. So okay, fine. So let’s try something else. And then it still doesn’t work. And then you try something else, and it doesn’t work. And then you can try 20 things they don’t work. That’s like, slept, slept, and slept and slept. is
David Ralph [35:39]
easy now, though, isn’t it? Because I’ve been in it for you know, 10 years. I’m the most relaxed I’ve ever been. I really am I, it is the process now of faith and trust. And just knowing that things will naturally come your way. As long as you keep on working, you know, it’s the ripples effect every day, you throw a stone into the Atlantic Ocean, and those ripples are going to cross to the other side, and somebody is going to be waiting for it. But there was a time when I was just throwing big boulders in and it will just make a big splash and go straight to the bottom. So it is all the small dots, the pebbles that make all the difference. And that’s quite fresh off really is stress free.
Misha Rubin [36:25]
Yes, I think I arrived to this place where I’m not stressed. When I when I started doing the career leap after a while I knew this is it. Like there was no question. In fact, talking about connecting dots. Suddenly, my whole career made sense to me. Because in my career, I tried everything I tried staying at jobs for two years and changing the jobs. You know, I tried taking a year off to look for my passion with quotation marks. I tried staying in one company for a long time, and getting promoted and successful and making money I tried complimenting my job with internal initiatives within my company, I was involved with a lot of flexibility and work life balance and inclusiveness initiatives. I tried to things outside of my job to find that fulfilment, you know, recorded a music album, I was on the border of charity, I’m still am, I was, you know, adopting kids, this is what I realised that, first of all, nothing will fill that void. If you’re not fulfilled with the work all these hobbies and great things you will do outside of work. None of that will substitute that so you this the the quest of fulfilling work if you have it, it will not go away by you doing other things. So what became clear at one one for me why I had to experience all these things, all these pains and disappointments and really hard moments and some great moments of success. Because when I teach people now when I talk to people now, now I actually know where they stand. Like for instance, I work with a lot of women, mothers that are primary caregivers, that had to make some twist in their lives in order to accommodate to their families, their children, their spouses. And I was like I can relate to that I am. You know, I’m a father. You know, when we adopted my twin daughters, I took three months off to stay with them. And I know the pain of how hard it is to go back to work when you spending time with your little children. So I know what it is to be a work at home parent because I found
David Ralph [38:46]
it easy. I was glad to go back to work to be honest when they were little.
Misha Rubin [38:51]
Oh, you know, no, I think it was actually really hard. And I think it’s just hard to leave them. But then during quarantine, you know staying like now I’m stay at home, the work from home parent, right? So I had to deal with all the matters of online schooling and still doing my business and running my job. Every time somebody has a headache and the school calls me like I know what it is to be a parent and be unexpected of parents. So I know what all these people go through. So what added up to me is is really that I I was added up to me that I really had to have all these experience so I know exactly where people are in their journey because I’ve been to most of these places
David Ralph [39:42]
and that is the classic Join Up Dots. Right You know, we talk about every single episode and we’re never gonna stop talking about it but the crap times become the good times and when you’re going through the worst times ever. You will and I promise you you will look at it five years down the line three Download mine. And go thank God for that. You know, I always say, and I talk about it so much because it’s important. But I had acute burnout that almost killed me five years down the line, I look back on it, and I go, I feel so much healthier. I think I feel healthier than I did beforehand. Because I now look after myself and I sleep. But at the time, it was the worst thing ever. And it took me years to get through it. But I would do it again. Now I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t lead into that point, I would learn the lessons that would stop me getting to that point. But I would still do it again, because I feel so good now. And that’s the big mindset thing. And that’s where the stress free and the relaxation comes in. If you can do it, where you can get the mindset of going, Okay, this is terrible. But hey, this is going to be my pup story in in five years time, this is going to be the thing that people are going to laugh at. And I’m going to laugh at two because it’s so terrible. But you know, you can you can dine out on it for the rest of your life.
Misha Rubin [41:03]
Yeah, so that’s to that point, especially when people in their mid career, I do think it takes a lot of courage to face face, several things face, that they actually work hard to build their life. And there is something they need to give up. Like a lot of you know, I talked about career traps. One of them I call a skills and experience trap. So as soon as we invest into skills and experience rate, then we look for next job with we’re saying, Well, what are my skills and experience so you look for next job with your skills and experience in mind, first and foremost. And then if you kind of end up in this never ending loop, and if your skills and experience don’t bring you fulfilment rate, so then they become your curse. So it actually It takes courage to say, well, let’s put aside all these years of, you know, learning things and skills and all these experience for me to evaluate my career. So that’s scary. The second thing that people have a lot have to confront a lot of people think about, am I too old? Am I too? You know, why? Why wouldn’t they just hire it enough? 25 year old to do this thing? Why would they be even talking to me. So that’s like a big thing that people do, but they don’t realise that actually, a lot of experiences that we have maybe not as much skills, I think of skills as clothes, you know, they get worn out, and they get out of fashion, but you can always acquire new skills, but our experiences actually are way more transferable that we give them credit for. So that’s a disempowering belief that people deal with. And the third one is just the circumstances, how I think the question of money and being responsible for your family. That’s one of the beliefs also that the way of being responsible for your family, you need to suck it up, and you need to do it. And this is what I usually tell to parents, your children, don’t learn from what you tell them. Your life is truly a blueprint for their life. They will model their life after yours. So if you showing them example of sucking it up and having a mediocre job and tolerating this, that’s what they learning, that’s there will be their bar that they will be needed to dealing with the in their own life. So if you want your kids to have an amazing life, if you show them the way, and you better find the answer
David Ralph [43:30]
it simple, isn’t it? It’s kind of the common sense when you’re talking about it. But you do you lose yourself, you know, and I’m, I’m not too far into the the dream life, to still remember how it was of me wandering down to the train station wandering back, not knowing what to do not knowing my next step, not knowing anything i was i was clueless, until that quiet voice spoke one day and said, No more really, you really don’t care about what you’re doing. You’ve got to find something you care about. And that’s what I’m mainly sure about. The simple answer is, What do you care about? And I would say that the majority of people out there doing careers, if push comes to shove, they would go No, actually, I don’t care it care about this. I’d rather be doing something else.
Misha Rubin [44:22]
Yeah, I agree. But I, to me, it’s really a question of education, more than anything else, because I think it’s reasonable for most people. And again, I’m talking to people that listen, if somebody lost their job and they struggling how to feed their family, and they need to deal with some emergency. That’s not who I’m talking to. I understand that those people listen, sometimes they need to do what they need to do at this moment. But I’m talking to somebody who is in a good enough place, you know that they made it enough in their life. They know how the rest of their life will go if they keep doing what they doing. So to me to those people, it does take a take courage and education. And I think that it’s definitely possible especially, I would also say, the pandemic did to the whole employment world, that suddenly, you have to be less concerned about geography of places. I think if you know if, if even, maybe a year ago, or two years ago, people were so focused, though the remote work was and technology existed at that time. And remote work wasn’t like some new revolutionary idea. But still, a lot of businesses were not really comfortable to have the workforce to be fully remote. Now, what happened is really not a technology change, but actually more of a paradigm of thinking transformation that happened in the society. Were over a year, people had to work remotely. And now businesses realised, well, that actually works are mostly works maybe in sometimes we do need to meet together, that actually, a lot of experts say that productivity actually increased a lot of so now, suddenly, your job opportunity market is exponentially bigger than what it used to be a year ago. So now you could be reaching out to organisations that are aligned with your values, but maybe on on another coast that you are, it’s absolutely possible now,
David Ralph [46:25]
yeah. So so the crap year, or years down the line where go, actually, that was the best thing that ever, you know, away from, obviously, people losing lives and all over terribleness. But actually the concept of it, changing the way that we think changing the way that we operate, just changing the way that I think people are more focused on connection with people and real life connection. I would hate to lose that. I think there’s been a lot of positives from this.
Misha Rubin [46:54]
Yeah, no, I agree. But I think that my the way I think about it, that our society was there was a lot of pain that we need to acknowledge that occurred for all of us. You know, for me, personally, it was a super painful year. But for people, it was so painful. I know many people that went through a lot of suffering. But if you think about from the society change, I think we literally made a 20 year leap, I think in terms of, you know, education, in terms of remote work, in terms of even remote medicine, suddenly, the whole world and the way the world operates is so different. And again, it wasn’t a technology change. The technology was there all along, it was really a cultural change for the society. So I think we literally jumped 20 years from now now, it like maybe not all of it is great, but it feels like a little bit inevitable, in terms of the type of change is happening.
David Ralph [47:51]
So before we send you back in time, me Sure on the Sermon on the mic to have a one to one with your younger self. With your business, obviously, it’s still young, it’s still fledgling, How comfortable are you with the progress you’ve made against how far you wish you had made?
Misha Rubin [48:13]
Okay, so the way I would answer this, one of the way I evaluate my life is a look at a year back. And I and I measure how sorry, I just lost the work, how improbable my life right now, relative to a year ago, if somebody told me a year ago, about everything that I’m doing now, how improbable is that? And I will tell you, my God, it’s like, I wouldn’t imagine this in my wildest dreams. So that gives me a good grade for myself in terms of where I am. Even with all my failures, and maybe everything, not everything going perfect. I like the unimaginable.
David Ralph [48:56]
Yeah. I love the answer. Because I think the same thing over time. You know, I couldn’t go back to work. I just couldn’t, I don’t be I could last one day, going back into an office and sitting there until they let me go, you know, I just couldn’t do it. And although it’s been ups and downs, it’s it’s worth doing. It really is worth doing if you’re that right kind of person. And that’s the key thing.
Misha Rubin [49:22]
Yeah, so actually, the word that I was used, was looking to use as my, the way I’m measuring things is unimaginable. I look how I did the extent to which my life was unimaginable a year ago versus now. Brilliant stuff.
David Ralph [49:38]
Well, this is an unimaginable, can’t even say the word because this is something I do on every single podcast, basically the Sermon on the mic when we’re gonna send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to the young meesha which age Misha would you speak to and what advice would you give him? Well, we’re gonna find out because I’m going to play the music as I always do. And when it It’s your time to talk. This is the Sermon on the mic.
Unknown Speaker [50:11]
We go with the speed of the show,
Misha Rubin [50:27]
Dear 25, year old meesha. So you are a little lost right now. And actually, you will keep feeling lost for a while. And you will keep trying things and trying things and trying things, a lot of things will continue not making sense to you. So this is one thing that I want to tell you that at the end, it will all come together. And everything you’re doing now is so valuable, it will actually make sense. It will add up to the life that you’re dreaming about. So don’t give up, keep going. It’s all everything you’re doing is super important. That’s all I have to tell you, me. Sure.
David Ralph [51:06]
Well, I was very short and sweet. So Misha, what’s the number one best way that our audience can connect with you, sir?
Misha Rubin [51:13]
So the Korea leap calm is the name of my programme and the Korea rebels. That calm is when you want to join the Korea rebels movement that I’m starting.
David Ralph [51:23]
And we have all the links on the show notes to make it as easy as possible to connect me. Sure. Thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots. And please come back again, when you got more dots to join up. Because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Misha Rubin. Thank you so much.
Misha Rubin [51:44]
Thank you, David. It was pleasure.
David Ralph [51:48]
Mr. Michel Rubin. Well, yeah, so it’s it is the you shouldn’t think about that. What do you actually want to feel like in a job more than what do you want the job to provide you because we’re all going to say I’m millions of pounds and three hours a day and all that kind of stuff. Because I used to really like it when I was able to just be myself and relax and be creative and have fun. And I know that the work was so much better as well, when they suppress that. That was when I went screw you on, I’m off. But I hadn’t framed it in that way. So how many of you sit out there and think to yourself, how do I want to feel in my job? I mean, is this the right job for me because I’m only getting one out of the three or one out of the four things should I look for environments that will play to both personal desires and those values very, very important to do. And as we saw, Misha has quit his job and he’s now building his business from the from the ground up. It’s fledgling times. It’s quite a new for one, but I know that he will become a big success at it, as I always say, or every one of you if you decide to start going and keep on working towards it. Until next time, I will see you again my friends. Look after yourself. Be happy, stay sexy, and we’ll see you next time. See ya. Cheers. Bye bye.
That’s the end of China. You’ve heard the conversation. Now when it’s time for you to start taking massive action and create your life busy only you live. We’ll be back again real soon. Join Up Dots Join Up Dots Join Up Dots Join Up Dots. Jo Jo.