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Jake Heilbrunn Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast
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Introducing Jake Heilbrunn
Jake Heilbrunn is our guest today, on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots free podcast interview is a man who only recently appeared on the show, back on episode 675
And why is he back so quickly I hear you cry, when there are so many guests desperate to get on the show to start joining up dots.
Well, during the recording it was obvious to me that there were so many stories needing to be told, which we just didn’t get near to discovering and will be so useful for all of us, as we learn to trust ourselves and go for the gold in our lives.
Well, after an unfulfilling first semester of college that resulted in major stress, anxiety and unhappiness, he knew that he needed to make a change.
Although doing well academically, he had no passion for what he was doing. He realized that going to school and getting a degree might not be the right path for him – at least at that point in my life.
So he decided to take a chance, leaving school behind to follow his heart and explore other ways of life.
How The Dots Joined Up For Jake
With just a backpack and on a shoe-string budget, he spent 4 months travelling through Guatemala, Nicaragua and Costa Rica without a phone, yearning to disconnect from the widespread dominance of social media.
From living in the jungle and teaching English to poverty stricken kids, to meeting inspirational people from around the world, his quest took him to remote and exotic destinations throughout Central America.
And now with an amazing book Off The Beaten Trail doing well, and his speaking career taking off it quite simply seems to me that this is a man that we need to keep our eye on.
Which is why, we have him back on the show already.
So when he decided to go down to South America, what was he hoping to achieve? Disconnection or actual connection with his real self.
And was there anytime when he felt that he had bitten off more than he could hope to chew, but still managed to overcome?
Well let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr Jake Heilbrunn
Show Highlights
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Jake Heilbrunn such as:
Why Jake knew that he needed to maintain a lifestyle that would protect his balance of $4,000 travel funds, so found a way of volunteering to gain food and board
Why the power of story telling was so important to Jake through his travels, and why he feels that people should embrace this age old tradition more than they do today.
and lastly….
Why the world is full of amazing people, who come into your life just when you need them most and will help you out when times are tough. So dont be worried about what could happen. You have support everywhere.
Buy The Book
How To Connect With Jake Heilbrunn
Return To The Top Of Jake Heilbrunn
If you enjoyed this episode of Jake Heilbrunn, then why not listen to some of our favourite podcast episodes such as Payrise, Nick Ruiz, Sarah Caltieri or the amazing Brent Kelly
Or if you prefer just pop over to our podcast archive for thousands of amazing episodes to choose from.
Full Transcription Of Jake Heilbrunn Interview
Intro [0:09]
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK. David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:33]
Yes, hello there. Good morning, everybody who listens to Join Up Dots. Thanks for being here. today. We’re going to have a great show today because this is a bit of an unusual one is very rarely this has happened. But the guy who was going to be on the show today was just on episode 675. So only five episodes before and why is he back so quickly? I hear you cry when there’s so many guests desperate to get onto the show to start joining up. That’s well during the recording. It was obvious to me that there were so many stories needed to be told which we just didn’t get near to discovering, and will be so useful for all of us as we learn to trust ourselves and go for the gold in our lives. Well, after an unfulfilling first semester of college that resulted in major stress, anxiety and unhappiness, we found out that he needed to make a change. Although doing well academically, you had no passion for what he was doing. He realised that going to school and getting a degree might not be the right path for him, at least at that point in his life. So we decided to take a chance leaving school behind to follow his heart and explore other ways of life and with just a backpack. And on a shoestring budget, he spent four months travelling through Guatemala and Nicaragua, Costa Rica without a phone yearning to disconnect from the widespread dominance of social media from living in the jungle and teaching English to poverty stricken kids to meeting inspirational people from around the world. his quest took him to remote and exotic destinations throughout Central America and now we have an amazing book off the beaten trail doing well in the speaking career taking off, it quite simply seems to me that this is a man that we need to keep our eye on, which is why we’ve got him back on the show already. So when he decided to go down to South America, what was he hoping to achieve this connection or actually connection with his real self? And was there any time when he felt a bitten off more than he could hope to chew but still managed to overcome? Well, let’s find out as we bring them to the show to start joining up even more dots with the one and only Mr. Jake Heilbrun. Good morning to you again, Jake. This is a weird one. It’s great to have you on the show again. Thank you very much. I would say good evening to you. It’s good evening. This is the last show for a period Join Up Dots is going on sabbatical. We might even start traipsing through Guatemala, just just leaving docks behind us for people to follow. So in the last episode, if anyone’s started on this episode, and they’ve missed the last one, jump back onto 675 because you will have heard Jake talking about how he found the sort of energy in himself to make big careers. Due to the fact that physically he was kind of falling to pieces, he was suffering with hives, there was stress there was pressures in his life. So he decided to do the brave thing really and go 360 Levy’s education behind and head out onto the beef trail. And this is where we’re going to start here. So in the last episode, Jake, I think where we got to was the fact that you was in LA, you really well, we went a bit further than that, because we got to nakedness nakedness in the jungle, which is always good. You always want a bit of nakedness in the jungle, but we we got down to LA, and you decided that you was going to go down to South America. So I imagine that is kind of the starting point of off the beaten trail your book, is it always do we go further back than that?
Jake Heilbrunn [3:42]
Yeah, I mean, the starting point, the first three, four chapters, I give context of showing my story, being at school, you know, breaking out in the hives, kind of the anxiety, the confusion, the depression, questioning everything. So it’s kind of the build up of why the journey was taking place, and What what drew me towards it?
David Ralph [4:02]
And did you have any sort of experience of global travelling? Or had you seen other people? And I think in your first show, we talked about that all fulfilled brilliant as well. Where the guy died at the end of meeting berries, which wasn’t finished to his field. But other than sort of watching But was there any sort of inspiration to your journey that really made you set the compass down to South America?
Jake Heilbrunn [4:26]
Yeah, it’s funny. So into the wild, I didn’t even read it or, or see the movie until after my trip. So it wasn’t that that was actually an inspiration. I think for me, I never really travelled. I mean, I travelled with in the us a little bit a lot for soccer, which was, you know, what I played for a lot of my life, but by no means was I ever someone I could have imagined, who would have hopped on a flight to Guatemala with a backpack and no phone, etc. Like that was very beyond what I would imagined. But at the time, what I was searching for was I did watch a documentary on Netflix actually called Living on $1 a day. And it’s about these four guys who live in this town or this village, essentially, in Guatemala, and for eight weeks, and it’s fascinating. So that would kind of pique my interest to Guatemala specifically. But what caught out to me was I wanted to start my travels in a developing country, I think what I was seeking was something drastically different. I’ve always been a really curious person. So I wanted to do something that was way beyond my comfort zone, something where I would just kind of have my worldview flipped upside down. Like that’s kind of what I was seeking to have something that would make me question, you know, because I realised that the culture in the United States, at least from my perspective, from a 1718 year old up until that point was just very narrowed in the sense of you have this one path and you have to do this and work hard and then you, you get the job, then you do the nine to five for 30 years and you retire, get the house and die Like, yeah, that was kind of what I had been, you know, drinking that Kool Aid. And but but that’s what
David Ralph [6:06]
everyone has Jake, isn’t it really, you know, that isn’t just the American way of life. That’s the same as United Kingdom. I think that is the global view of how life should be somewhat.
Jake Heilbrunn [6:15]
Exactly, yeah. And, you know, for me, that was what I would have had unless the skin condition was kind of the physical sign for me to say, Whoa, something’s off. So I realised that I wanted to do I wanted to go another way. But never in a million years what I had thought that I would be doing it the way I did, I guess you could say,
David Ralph [6:37]
well, I think that’s true. I think we could also that way we all sit here, I’ve got a fantasy actually Jay, I will share it with you. It’s not one of those fantasies I can’t share on the podcast. But this kind of gets my juices going. But I would love to be taken to a foreign country not know where I am. be given like a little box with a few coins in and maybe a company And see if I could find my way home. And the challenge and the sort of the puzzle solving aspect of it really gets me going. I think Yeah, I’d love to be able to do that just you know really be plopped somewhere. I’ve got no idea and see if I can get myself back. Is that something that would excite you as well? Or at your core? Do you like a plan around you when you set off? Did you at least know A to B to C? Or did you literally just basket all the way along?
Jake Heilbrunn [7:28]
I knew a little bit I think I like a mix of both kind of depends so on. I hadn’t used this site called work away, which connects hosts and volunteers from all over the country. And it appealed to me for a couple of reasons. One because I did have a desire to volunteer. And so I found this in the second reason I guess you could say is, I had under $4,000. For flights and everything I didn’t know how long I wanted to travel but through work away, essentially you you connect with the host, you set the terms and most of them you Live for free in return for volunteering your free pre ruined board. So I found this guy who lived in this northern town called San Andres about nine hour bus ride from the Guatemala to the airport. And he essentially needed help in this small town to teach English and help the community in whatever way I could. And that appealed to me because I was 18. I had no professional skills. But I told him I was willing to help in any way I could. So he says, He sends me this three line email saying great when you get to Guatemala, take a taxi to the bus station, then hop on this nine hour bus ride to this town. Then take a tuck tuck, which is like a three wheeled read vehicle. Yeah, here and then ask for Mike the gringo because the homes have no addresses here. There’s only one little small Wi Fi cafe and I know you don’t have a phone. So so that was kind of his directions and I I remember reading them and almost being confused. Like, like, like Is that it? like shit, like, I guess and but partly didn’t even question it because I thought that was just the way it worked. So it actually looking back, it seemed a lot crazier. But in the moment, it was just like, Okay, this is how it works in Guatemala, this is how I’m gonna get here. So, again, how did you
David Ralph [9:17]
know that you weren’t going to end up? You know, in a box under somebody’s bed? How did you know that he wasn’t some kind of lunatic that was luring young American males into some kind of, I don’t know, weird lifestyle.
Jake Heilbrunn [9:32]
Yeah, you know, it definitely could have happened. Um, so I actually Skyped with him really quickly. And his, the volunteering thing had like two people who had left really positive reviews, and there was a lot of pictures. So, you know, I think there’s definitely an element of having to put faith in something unknown. You know, like you said, You never fully know. But I got a good vibe from him. And it turns out, I share his story. He’s got one of the most incredible life stories that I’ve ever Heard, but I did, from our Skype call I got a good feel from him. And yeah, that was kind of just, I mean, a mix of the reviews, seeing the pictures. But you know, there was just a gut feeling. It’s hard to explain sometimes why we have this draw towards something, but I just felt it.
David Ralph [10:16]
No, I think that’s absolutely fine. And I asked a question as sort of devil’s advocate, because I know so many people will be looking at the potential risks and the downsides. But I think that generally the world and I’ve said this so many times on Join Up Dots. I think the world is full of like 98% brilliant people, 2% bad people, or maybe 1% bad people and 1% serial killers, you know, the real psychopaths but I think generally wherever you go on Earth, whenever I’ve got into trouble some complete stranger has helped me out and you know, there’s a general goodwill across the earth so the weird things that people might be frightened that Jake really are unlikely to happen. Yes, I could happen but if you play sensibly, they’re unlikely on me.
Jake Heilbrunn [11:02]
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that was the scariest part for me in the beginning, but but it also was the thing that intrigued me was the unknown. So my journey in and of itself, is actually like from a statistical standpoint, there’s no statistics saying, oh, people who travel alone to Guatemala are likely to be killed. I think it’s just this big unknown thing. Whereas, you know, you have a very high likelihood of you could be killed in a car accident. But it’s the idea that I’m stepping into a territory where people do not speak my language. It’s a developing country where I don’t know the customs. So that’s what’s frightening. And that’s what I think where the fear comes from is we cannot wrap our heads around what it’s like. So, but but at the same time for me, because that was a specific thing that called out to me j caldron. That’s what fascinated me that was why I wanted to do it, whereas someone else they might scare them because they have I have no interest in doing anything remotely like that. Maybe they want to, you know, free climb 1000 foot mountain. And that would scare me. But I think it’s all about identifying what personally calls out to you. And for me it was this idea to explore the unknown, which, you know, turned out to be not that frightening.
David Ralph [12:19]
So let’s put it in context for the people out there listening. So we I’m sure we have some listeners thinking this sounds brilliant. I’d love to do this. You get into the foreign country, you can’t speak the language. How difficult is it to explain to people do you have to use mime? Do you sort of find some kind of middle ground language? How do you get yourself Understood?
Jake Heilbrunn [12:43]
Yeah, so the first thing for me, I met a guy in the airport with air at the gate, who, you know, people in Guatemala that do speak English, a lot of countries, you know, foreign countries that are our English speaker. So he ended up giving his brother was picking him up in Guatemala City, so he ended up giving me a ride to the bus station, which was awesome. And then he helped me buy my bus ticket to make sure I didn’t get ripped off. So that was awesome. And from that point on, it was a lot of hand gestures, and kind of very broken Spanish, like I knew a couple words. So two hours into our what’s supposed to be a nine hour bus ride, the bus just stops. And at first, you know, no one gets out 10 1015 minutes, and then the whole bus gets out. And as far as you can look in both both directions in front of us and behind us on this one way road. There’s just cars and trucks lined up. And people are outside their cars. And, you know, I didn’t know what to expect. No one told me about what could happen on these roads or whatever. But it turns out, there’s some huge accident way up ahead. And people are just hanging out. And so I’m sitting there and I remember first grabbing a book that I brought starting to read and then I’m thinking myself, this is a great opportunity to maybe connect with some people But I didn’t know how because I was the only English speaker on my bus. So I took out a I brought a deflated soccer ball in my backpack, which I was bringing to the town. And I pumped it up with a little travel pump and started juggling it. And two or three of the guys on my bus kind of seemed interested. So they came over and started kicking the ball around with me. And just like that, I’ve made three friends through soccer kind of this football, the universal language. And after we kind of just start using like hand our hands and like and I’m like pointing to my chest and like Jake, and then I’m like this guy’s name was Wilson. And so that it was just like that. And we were kind of just communicating through our body and soccer and just trying to understand each other which was really funny, but that was like the biggest lesson for me right off the bat was the power of nonverbal communication.
David Ralph [14:49]
And I think as you say soccer or football as we call it over here, it does connect so much. I’ve been in bars across the world and it bears football on the TV. Then you’ve got some kind of connection. And it doesn’t take a lot does it to bridge that those those boundaries, those those geographical boundaries that we all surround ourselves with? Just needs one or two connections and you’re in there, aren’t you?
Unknown Speaker [15:14]
Yeah, absolutely.
David Ralph [15:16]
So when you are at this, this guy, what was his name? The gringo. Make the gringo you meet him on mic. Sorry. Sorry, Mike, if you’re watching. If we get there are you instantly put into some plush surroundings some sort of palace to stay? Or is it a shack? What’s the kind of conditions that somebody would maybe be frightened off when they sort of come into that environment?
Jake Heilbrunn [15:44]
Yeah, so it’s funny. I arrived, so we were on the side of that road for like eight more hours on and then we get in to the town where I’m supposed to then take the taxi or tuck tuck, and we get in at like three in the morning. So I’m like, okay, there’s no I’m gonna find him. And he wasn’t there at the bus station like, I was assuming he might be there on kind of where we’d pre talked about but he had no there wasn’t like an itinerary that you know, where you could check your phone and see Oh, my flight gets in and five minutes. Like it didn’t work like that. So I just checked into this. Or you could call it a hotel. It definitely was an interesting place. And then in the morning, I set off for the town. I got in the truck and I had no ability to communicate with him. So I was just kind of like hoping I would find him. And it’s 9am on a Saturday, so not too many people are out but there’s this beautiful lake. And I ended up meeting this traveller who was coming through I mean, the timing you call it a coincidence, a synchronicity. Whatever you wish to call, it was pretty crazy, because I learned later that there really is not many tourists who come to this town, or people who speak English, let alone in this guy who lived in a town about 20 minutes away from Germany. happened to be going through because there was a post office that he was waiting to open up. So I’m in this truck truck with this driver asking all around Mike to gringo like, you know Mike the gringo because he told me Oh, just ask for Mike the gringo people known. And of course, no one I’m saying Do you know Mike, the gringo, and these people are looking at me like, I’m nuts. Because they can’t, you know, they can’t speak English either. And I’m like thinking to myself, am I in the right town is this and so I see this guy stand out like a client white mill, because he’s got white skin and so I’m like, hey, do you speak English? And he’s like, yes, I’m like, Oh, thank God. You might the gringo. He’s like, no, but I’m like, I don’t care. He speaks English. So I got out there. And yes, I was in the correct town. And he eventually very interesting life story himself, but he sent guided me to the internet cafe where I’ve met one of the other volunteers and then eventually met Mike but it was really interesting how it all came together. And I was a little nervous because I was like, maybe I’m not in the Right Place, maybe this isn’t, you know, it was just Yeah,
David Ralph [18:04]
yeah. So in that situation, if you was in the wrong place, how would you have dealt with it? So you got on the wrong bus? Would you have just forgotten about him? Or would you have tried to backtrack to that town? What would you have done?
Unknown Speaker [18:19]
And that’s a good question. It’s sort of impossible to know exactly how things would have taken a different turn. I’m sure I would have just had it off probably to the nearest major town and went from there.
David Ralph [18:32]
And then backtrack to him or just kind of existed or what in your gut feeling if that situation was occurring? What do you think you would have done?
Jake Heilbrunn [18:42]
I probably would have tried to find a place with Wi Fi to just see maybe to confirm that, yes. I am going to volunteer at this place. And yes, he, you know, he’s going to have me just to confirm that that and if he totally bailed on me, then I probably would have just, I don’t know made a plan to gone out and started exploring or I think one of the things that scared me before travelling was, what’s it like on the road to and backpacking throughout all these countries you meet tonnes of travellers, you meet people from all over the world. So you’re never fully alone. And I’m sure I would have met someone, I mean, just the very nature of my whole experience, I would meet someone that would completely completely change my my quote unquote, plan and I would go with them to this place I’d never heard of, because we hit it off and I said, Oh, what the heck not so I it’s hard to tell. Exactly. I just guarantee you though, I would have met someone and that would have been the the switch.
David Ralph [19:36]
I think you’re right, because through the show, we’ve had many people on who have travelled the world we’ve had Jason Lewis, who was the first guy to walk around the earth, and self power himself to 13 years, I think, and when we’ve had Graeme Hughes, who was the first guy to go on every single country honour, so we’ve had some huge travellers and it seemed to me while talking to them, that There was almost like a herd of travellers. It was like a community of these nomadic people that would just come into towns meet up and then be on their own way. And nobody was ever alone. Nobody was ever worried because there was always a support group around them, even though they were just connecting with these people for maybe a day, maybe two hours, whatever. There was always somebody there that could point them in the right direction. Would you think that would be true for you and your advice for the listeners?
Jake Heilbrunn [20:30]
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that was one of the biggest things as well that I received was that Oh, you’re you’re travelling solo don’t isn’t that become lonely? And I think you know, at times they’re, they’re definitely lonely moments. I’m not gonna say there there weren’t. But for the most part, it’s you know, or when you are in that lonely moment, it’s just right when you look up you’ll find someone and and all sudden you hit it off, and you might make your best friend who’s from Norway, or, you know, some other country and then all it is Like there’s always someone there, there’s always people on the same path as you whether you’re aware of it or not. And I think that was the coolest thing is just constantly meeting these travellers who were there for the same reason as you. I will
David Ralph [21:13]
voice your opinion now of the global community on a sort of big differences of are we all litchi? Exactly the same, just different skin colour and different ways of living? What do you enjoy?
Jake Heilbrunn [21:26]
Ah, well, that’s a loaded question. I think. I think it’s interesting because I think at the end of the day, more or less, everyone shares the same things. I mean, we all want happy, we want happiness, we want love, we want our lives to be of significance, and we just want to improve the quality of life for ourselves and the people around us that we care about. But I think the context changes a lot when someone from the US meets someone from, you know, for my life to someone in Guatemala. I mean It was so different from the way I was brought up to someone to for example, when there was the 23 year old in the family that I was living in, he’s someone I’m still in touch with today. But his upbringing was so different than mine and his view of the world. But at the same time, we would laugh and connect, and then talk about girls and soccer and just the same thing. So I think at the end of the day, there are the same ties that connect us all just the way we’re brought up and what we’re influenced by at a young age and kind of shape our worldview,
David Ralph [22:31]
to kind of have survival instincts, we want food, we want water, we want something over our head, we want to be happy. We want to reproduce the basic core elements are exactly the same. All across the world thing.
Jake Heilbrunn [22:45]
Yeah, and that was what was really cool for me was you know, here I am meeting my Guatemalan family and then there was a volunteer from Switzerland, a volunteer from the Netherlands. And and everyone kind of had their different stories. They’re different. You know, ways of life but there was the same thing that connected us all. And that was really cool to see and hear and, and even Mike who’s so I could give you a little bit about his story was incredible. He served eight years in the Special Forces doing hostage rates and recovery and Afghanistan and Iraq and he, I mean, he had tonnes of crazy stories Tommy about sacrifice, but he was in an ID explosion. He was driving an armoured an armoured vehicle through a dangerous zone, and him and his partner did Rock paper scissors to see who would drive and he liked you know, he preferred driving so he won and he’s driving and you know, all of a sudden they their bus or their vehicle, just the hidden explosion and next thing he knows he’s on the ground kind of like fighting for his life. He’s got a huge chunk of metal stuck in him in his chin, and it turns out his his partner was killed in the explosion. And he spent the next six months just in a hospital. He part of his chin is missing, because he was That chunk of metal that was stuck in it. And just hearing how he that was kind of after that he decided not to go back to the military, although they they were asking him to come back and hearing about it. And then he went off to Peru and volunteered in a community there. And so his whole life story was very fascinating to me. But I remember sitting with him in the jungle, or we were walking, and just hearing him say, you know, we’ve all sat at the same table before when he says we all he’s referring to, you know, every different human being and when you can understand that and instead of trying to argue your way, but to stop and take that breath and understand where this person is coming from, to him, he’s like, that’s how we’ll find peace, because he had been all over the world, you know, deployed, not just in Afghanistan and Iraq, we’ve been in Africa, I’ve been in all these places, and to hear him and his outlook after almost being killed and losing his best friends was, it was pretty powerful.
David Ralph [24:58]
And then do the stories. Get more powerful because you’ve got less distractions. Because in a podcast, you’re connected at one end, I’m connected at this end, I have no distractions other than what you’re saying, and I seem to hang on the words more than if I’m in real life. If I’m in a pub, and somebody is telling me something, and people are walking around and beeping, you know, you go back to the very early days, and the entertainment was stories around the campfire. And did you find that what’s your understanding of how powerful a story is really heightened by by your journeys through without any of the distractions that we have in modern society?
Jake Heilbrunn [25:39]
Yeah, a 100%. So I didn’t I chose not to bring a cell phone actually, because I was just unhappy, always kind of comparing myself to other people. And it’s funny, I actually am giving a TED talk a week from tomorrow. And this is it’s about the youth anxiety epidemic, essentially. And one of the pillars of my talk is this idea of, you know, technology because we have to be conscious of it. It’s a tool and not letting the tool use us because I know a lot of other people. And myself, it was the same way. Like I was always kind of comparing my life to other people on social media. Again, like I always had to be connected to every second sharing every moment feeling the need to be a certain someone based on my social media pictures, and it was total BS, and I realised I just needed to get away from that. I needed to remember what it was like to live without that distraction. So I get to this town and, you know, there’s really limited technology. And then we head off to the jungle for a 75 mile six day track. And you know, no one has their phones. It’s just camping. But I found that I had experienced this connection with myself and with the other volunteers and people on this trip that I was so present, and it’s funny, like after one or two days without my cell phone, I was not even thinking about it, I wasn’t thinking about the notifications. It wasn’t like a dopamine hit from this, like or this whatever I was just fully connected to what Mike was saying, or what Otto was saying, the girl from the Netherlands who walked this whole jungle Trek and her bare feet. I mean, it was this ability to really connect with someone and not be thinking about anything else. And that, to me, was one of the most powerful lessons I learned. And as a result of the whole four months, really, most 99% of the time disconnected, of course, I would check in on, you know, two little computers and Wi Fi cafes to let my family know how I was doing. But I gained a sense of clarity and insight into myself that I don’t think would have been possible had I always had a phone on me.
David Ralph [27:43]
And what was the frightening the clarity when you looked at yourself because I imagine if I was in that situation, I’d be loving it. I’d be absolutely loving it walking along with with the barefooted lady having these conversations, but knowing that I was going to have to return to You know, America with all the distractions and stuff, and when you touch in on something and you realise at your essence, this is what I want to do. This is what I want to be some times it makes it more difficult for your life later on. Did you feel that? Did you think yourself? Hang on? I can’t live in a cave for the rest of my life, but actually, I think I’d be quite happy living in the cave. Oh my god.
Jake Heilbrunn [28:24]
You know, it’s really funny you say that. And I’ve never been asked that before. And it’s brilliant. Because at the time travelling, I wasn’t so much thinking of what it was gonna be like back home with a phone. But I did start wondering like, wow, like, what if I just continued living in some of these communities that I was discovering where it was very simple way of living were very much more communal. And very hands on less technology. But I wasn’t really worrying about coming home. I mean, it’s funny, I was gone for four months, it felt like four years because in many situations and just the nature of travel Like every day is so new. It’s so different in your I was just so in all because it was just like it was this different stimuli every day that was just fascinating me so it was hard to get into this routine because every day was different. And I think coming back, it was almost more of a culture shock than leaving, because all of a sudden, everything I could want was at the snap of my fingertips. You know, I could go to the grocery store like that I could check my phone like that, you know, AC clean, you know, a running toilet where I can put toilet paper down the it was pretty crazy. And I think there is just this balance that needs to be found. Because I want to become you know, I want to be an active voice in my society and I want to help be of influence to other people. So I think social media and technology is a very important tool and doing that but it’s for me about the conscious balance of Am I checking my phone Because of a positive thing, or am I doing this because it’s an addiction, which it literally is,
David Ralph [30:06]
yeah, I’ve just got into this thing called friends. It’s like a desktop application. And literally, you put all your Gmail, Facebook, Hotmail, anything that you might check all into one portal and it tells you if there’s anything new occurring into it. And it doing a show like this, it’s quite difficult sometimes because you have to be present, we have so many different outside influences coming into you. But then it takes over your life as well. And I’ve started using this thing where I can just glance at it once in the morning, and literally catch up on a whole day’s notifications in about 1015 minutes is brilliant, because I’ve been aware as you are, but life is getting too busy. And I was losing focus on what needed to be done because I was just doing a bit of a base a bit of a bit of this and there wasn’t the quality. There wasn’t the quality and what you had down in Guatemala and Nicaragua Was quality of conversation quality of food quality of life? And you can’t take that for granted. Can you you really have to look at that and think to yourself, Well, how do I replicate that? Because it does make life better, Jake.
Jake Heilbrunn [31:15]
Yeah, you know, and it’s funny because I think you and I, David shared that quality in a sense that we really value the time we are not distracted by technology. Yeah. I mean, I have friends who I mean, so just to give you insight, and I’ve been doing a lot of research for my talk next week, the average American 18 to 24 is checking their phone over 70 times a day. So I have friends who they’re not necessarily when they’re always on their phone checking, like, constantly addicted. I mean, you go to a restaurant and everyone’s on their phone at a table. It’s crazy to me, but people don’t. Some people are fine with that. I I do not. I find much. I’m much happier when I’m connected with a conversation with people where no one’s on their phone. I prefer To like my, the best moments of my life usually are not around a cell phone, or just being connected in that way, but face to face connection. So I forgot what your question was. Exactly.
David Ralph [32:12]
But I can’t remember what the question was about. But to be honest, I was so engrossed in that. So I was trying to do the math. So 70 times a day. So basically, they’re, they’re awake for 12 hours. So they’re literally looking at it six to seven times an hour.
Jake Heilbrunn [32:28]
Yeah, and it’s research is found it’s more addictive than cigarettes. You know, these dope mean hits. And I know Simon Sinek he’s the guy, the author of the book, start with why, yeah, he’s doing a lot of research into because, and I find this fascinating because my generation and so I’m 20 people who are, you know, 1213 years old right now, 14, they grew up with a cell phone, you know, they don’t know a world without this. So they essentially live through two paradigms and both are equally as real, real. Life and then through social, and they’re both almost as present in life as the other. And it’s pretty crazy because we’re evolving so quickly that it’s, it’s almost hard to see the repercussions that are happening. And, and with my research and my own story I see there is this huge rise in anxiety and depression among youth. I mean, in the US your college and high school students are five to eight times more likely to have major depression or anxiety than 50 years ago. And I think a lot of it is the societal pressure. And this, this social tool, which is great for so many reasons, like I do love social media and the ability to connect with people. But it also has, you know, it’s a strength and a weakness, and it’s how you use it. I think a lot of kids, there’s not like a playbook or a workbook on how you should use this device effectively. And I think it’s causing a lot of issues because people aren’t able to turn off. They’re not able to disconnect from it and connect in you know, face to face and I think that that human connection is something that we’re wired, we need it from an evolutionary standpoint, you know, we relied on each other. And I think that that’s a huge missing part. And I think that’s going to be a really interesting factor in the next 10 years. And something that I’m very passionate about is creating those analogue communities and spaces for people that come together. I can
David Ralph [34:20]
see you doing this, I really can I can see you doing, you know, tours getting youngsters are between the ages of about 15 and 18, to travel through, you know, replicating your journey through South America. But one of the stipulations is the fact that you don’t have a phone, you know, there’s no emergency because this is what I get told all the time. I don’t have a phone and the people say, you know what happens if there’s an emergency, you deal with it, and it’s very rare times that there’s any emergency at all. So to create the off the beaten trail, youth movements, where you take people and get them to experience a life where they’re actually focused. Because then the prison on each other, that’s gonna be a great business idea. I’m trademarking it instantly, Jake. And I’m going to do that because I think that there’s a there’s a winning there.
Jake Heilbrunn [35:12]
Yeah. And I think what is powerful about it is this idea that a lot of the youth of today are don’t will literally don’t even know what it’s like to go a week or two weeks without their cell phone. And I’ve intentionally done so I was in Mexico a month ago, and I was in Mexico again, like two months ago. I’m not too far from Mexico. So it’s great. And I did intentionally I did a week without my phone when I was in Mexico City. And I went on a house build about a month ago, and I didn’t bring my phone that was just three days. But I find that when I don’t bring a phone to a place and I can really allow myself to kind of get clarity and have that sense of connection, which I need, like I know I need and it sounds like you’re similar in that way. But I think it’s also a self awareness thing where some people aren’t affected by it as much. But I know for me like, if I’m on my phone too much like I’m genuinely not happy and I find myself getting stressed out more.
David Ralph [36:10]
One of the things that I’m very interested in Jake is that ability of getting in the flow, getting into that sweet spot when everything just disappears and you just absorbed by your work. And I don’t think it’s possible. I don’t think it’s possible with, you know, notifications and beeps and stuff going all around you Now, we all know that our best work is done when we’re in the flow and the quality work that we look as the masterpieces was all done in probably isolation and quietness. I think that there’s there’s a, as I say, I think there’s a big business here. I really do. I think there is an ability to take people and show them a different way. There is a couple of ladies that I was reading about that actually do weekends and it’s called like, disconnected or something. And you have to leave your phone in a boat and people adults over a weekend, but they’re not allowed to have their phone. And they pay for that they pay extra by having somebody actually take the phone away from them because they know that they’re not going to do it themselves. fascinating stuff.
Jake Heilbrunn [37:11]
Yeah, I love that. And it’s really funny, because it’s almost counterintuitive, in many ways. But I mean, I even think about it today like, and I love the fact you don’t have a phone because I I’m not a huge fan of texting and I like sometimes get annoyed when I’m getting all these texts or phone calls. And these are from, you know, people that I like, it’s just the fact that it just gets to be so much and it can cause us overwhelmed. So I love that. You have to check your phone and at the door. It’s kind of like coat check.
David Ralph [37:41]
Yeah, absolutely. So if we take you back to your journey again, where was the real highlight when you look back on everything? Where was the sort of the moment the situation or conversation where you’ve Oh, yeah, this was it. This is what I really wanted in my heart of hearts when I set off and I’m in now experiencing it.
Jake Heilbrunn [37:59]
You No, it’s hard to say one. But I could tell you two different experiences in the first was. So I went to this town called Lake attea lawn. And this was about two months into my travels. So I was kind of more in the swing of things and more confident being on my own and trying different things. And I met this man named our new info, what a really powerful life story. And he grew up in the Guatemalan genocide, just overcame incredible adversity. And He took me to this village where I was kind of exposed. It was the first time I was exposed to a level of poverty that just was kind of shocking. I mean, he found these kids sleeping in coffee plants. And we just went to Bill visit the huts that they were staying in with like dirt floors, and he was just explaining all of it and we went around kind of passing out some stuff and I had brought stickers with me on my travels. That was another thing that I would just give out to kids as a way to connect because I couldn’t speak the language. And I remember Just kind of these kids were looking at me and they didn’t even speak Spanish they spoke this like a mind language called kitschy. I hope I’m pronouncing that right. And it was fascinating to me to see like, how he was connecting with these people and how they got very excited by just the sticker. And for me, it kind of all ties back to the same actually of connection that there’s they looked at me kind of, you know, like I was just this curious guy. I don’t know if they saw too many foreigners come into their, their village, but they were they lit up and all these smiles and we’re really excited about the stickers. And it was to me when I was thinking about it and the rest of the day when we were on his motorcycle coming back to the kind of the touristy town about 20 minutes away. It wasn’t their sticker, but it was the connection. It was what it represented that oh, you know, I can even something as small as a sticker can show someone that you know, you’re connecting with them or that you care, whatever it is. I started thinking about all the ways in my life that I could be all this potential within me that even as an 18 year old kid that I hadn’t that I wasn’t even tapping into. And that afternoon, I went to this, this Macau ceremony in this town, which I’ve made a couple friends at the hospital and there was apparently this guy who was world renowned for these ceremonies. And it sounded a little woowoo. To me, to be honest, I didn’t really know what to expect, but my whole vision of travelling and what called alchemy was trying these trying new experiences in the open mind. So I said, Great, I’ll see what this is like. I get to this guy’s little cottage and there’s like 3040 people kind of felt like we’d time travelled back to Woodstock in the 1960s I mean, pie died, you know, dreadlocks, people wearing beads. It was kind of an interesting scene, but people of all ages, and this guy comes out. He looks like a six foot six skinny is a rod version of like Dumbledore this wispy white beard in these circular glasses and he’s wearing a psychedelic t shirt. are a tie dye t shirt and you know this is the guy’s name is like Keith, the cow Sharman and he just kind of basically went into this whole story about cows essentially, it’s just the purest form of chocolate. It grows a lot in Guatemala. And he used to cow as a vehicle to kind of help people get in touch with themselves to release traumatic experiences, kind of like this whole session, I guess. And so, kind of started diving in and we did a lot of exercises. I had the cow drink, which quite frankly tasted disgusting. I thought it was going to be like a chocolate milkshake. It was very bitter. And didn’t you know, it was not like a psychedelic a we just felt like I had a shot of espresso or two or five. And we’re, he’s guiding us through a lot of different things and I’m not having any profound experience. A couple people are, you know, crying as they’re sharing, you know, very traumatic experiences, you know, everyone’s kind of having a unique experience. And then he says, Okay, we’re going to do this thing called glow meditation. He has us all Close your eyes and kind of He guides us through this exercise where we’re, we’re smiling, and he’s trying to bring us to a place of just pure joy. And I felt like a was the cheesiest thing I’ve ever done in my whole life. Be I feel my cheeks like I don’t know if you’ve ever smile, how to smile a lot for picture. Yeah, you know, that feeling? You get your cheeks, but it almost feels like plastic.
So I’m feeling that and I’m like, What is this going, but I kept he kept saying kind of fake it till you make it. It’s okay. And as I really started tuning inwards, on I had this vision, I saw myself standing on a stage with a book that I wrote about my story, and how it was inspiring all these users and people of all ages to have the courage to kind of look within and take the leap of faith that you know everyone wants to pursue at some point in their life, whatever that looks like. And it felt so vivid. And that was for me the catalyst I’m ever staying up till three in the morning. That night. After the ceremony talking with friends about how excited I was, because that was the moment I said, I have to write this book. And then 16 months later, I’m at the I’m giving a speech at the launch for my book at a book launch party with 100 people. And I’m speaking holding the book that I saw myself writing and speaking about 16 months previously, that day in Guatemala, so that was, that was definitely a profound experience.
David Ralph [43:24]
That is weird, isn’t it? When you do look back on it, and it does it seem almost like a dream?
Unknown Speaker [43:29]
It does. And it’s funny, there are certain days in our life that we’ll never forget. And in that, you know, I have a lot of different theories on kind of like, living with purpose. I don’t, I think it can be stressful and unhealthy to think that you have to have one purpose because then you’ll find it but that was the day that I really realised Whoa, it was the combination of my experience with our new foe. And also, you know, how I can like what I have within me and how I can be you make an impact in my own community back home. And that drive that vision was so real that I, I would stay up the whole night. And I remember what it was like waking up, but I couldn’t really sleep. I got up at five in the morning and just started pouring out my journal, all of these experiences because I knew I was going to write the book. So it was the feelings of passion and drive towards something bigger than myself. That was the one of the most incredible things that I’ll never forget. It was the feeling that I’ll never forget in that moment.
David Ralph [44:29]
I think that’s absolutely right. And I remember when I launched Join Up Dots, it was really weird right at the very beginning, even before I press the first button to record anything. It felt kind of real around me. It was almost like I was stepping into something that was already waiting for me. And then once I did, it just kind of grew out from where it was, but it is a confidence boost boost for you, isn’t it when you had those feelings that Yeah, I’m on a stage. I’m holding that book. It’s almost like that vision is, is realised. I think the, the mental coaches, they do a lot of visualisation techniques with winners where they get them to picture themselves running over the line first, constantly, constantly, constantly so that when they actually do it, their body’s already ready for that moment. So you will already be a TED talk. Your TED Talk is gonna go like a storm. I’m sure it is. Because you’ve already had maybe a year two years or whatever it is preparing for that vision to come true.
Jake Heilbrunn [45:32]
Yeah, you know, it’s really funny. I had actually written down a while ago that I wanted to give a TED talk. I put a little picture of it on so are you familiar with jack Canfield?
David Ralph [45:44]
Yeah, he’s been on my show.
Jake Heilbrunn [45:46]
Oh, I love it. Yeah, so Jack’s, you know, one of my biggest teachers read his books. I was with him actually a week ago. And I’ve learned a lot. The success principles was huge for me and when I read his book and learned about the power of visualisation. It was like, I was I was already using it like unconsciously, you know this whole. I mean, people sometimes say, how did you write the book how to do this? The answer was I saw it so real and vividly in my mind’s eye that day in Guatemala, like felt that with every ounce of my being that there was no, there was no stopping me. It wasn’t a matter of, you know, if it was just a matter of when. And so I, you know, with a talk, I’ve envisioned myself and I’ve spoken a lot of schools, but the TED Talk is a you know, it’s an opportunity that I’m very honoured and take very seriously to really deliver a message. And I felt I felt myself being on that stage so many times. And, you know, jack, when I read Jack’s work, and gone to a lot of his stuff and spoken with him, it’s really good, a deeper dive of how that works. And it’s very fascinating.
David Ralph [46:49]
JACK was on the show, I think, Episode 380 or something, you can google and go back and one of the things I was really struck by him was the fact that he could lose everything and he would still be happy, you know, he could literally go back to being a farmer in raising pigs and it wouldn’t matter he’d found that simplicity of gratitude in every single day. And it didn’t matter about the millions coming into his bank account. It was about something more spiritual and I think we’ve all got that in our life Haven’t we but in in a way we forget it because we are constantly going for the dream other people’s dream where Mr. Canfield has achieved and now he’s looking within if that makes sense.
Jake Heilbrunn [47:33]
Oh, no, it makes total sense. And that’s one of the reasons I I look up the jack so much. I mean, there’s a lot of people in the personal development, you know, success space. And I remember meeting jack he was he had a sense of humility about him and grounding that I find very admirable, you know, especially considering everything he’s achieved. He knows a ridiculous amount of people on a first name basis just after meeting them. And I find that in and of itself, shocking, but And it’s funny you said that because that was one of my biggest takeaways travelling and living out of my backpack for four months where I had four shirts, you know, five pairs of boxers shorts was that this, you know, and the culture that I’ve been brought up, and it’s the same in the UK, it’s kind of like the consumption, materialism, that buying things will make you happy. And I realised that living out of my backpack for four months, I found this joy and love and zest for life with the simplicity of more the experiences and relationships in front of me and within myself. And one of the big transformational periods for me was I spent two weeks living on this spiritual community on an island in Nicaragua. I think we might have touched on this last time. This is where the people went naked swimming.
David Ralph [48:48]
I remember it well, Jake, but you tell us again.
Jake Heilbrunn [48:51]
Yeah. So I get to this community. And you know, the first day, I guess, took me two hours to find this community. It’s kind of it was on an island. Like, I’m awful with directions, no phone, and I finally find this community I find a local guy, this Nicaraguan 15 year old to show them on this bike takes me totally off the beaten trail. And I’m like, where are we going, buddy? He shows me this community. So I’m sweating. I check in, I meet the guy. And I decided to go for a dip in this beautiful pool overlooking this volcano, like one of the most scenic locations I’ve ever been. So I’m swimming. And then soon, you know, seven, eight of the volunteers come in for a swim as well. But everyone is goes completely naked, you know, girls, boys. And it was a little odd for me. Because in the US, it was like, yeah, there’s not really nude beaches. And I was like, should I take my shorts off, but that’d be weird because I was already in the pool. So it was this whole mind thing. And by the second day, you know, swimming and kind of felt a little weird. And by the third day, I’m like jumping in Cannonball, you know? Really, I mean it just, but it was interesting in the psychological component that went with, you know, physically going fully naked. It was like, What What about this makes me uncomfortable. And, you know, look, I don’t run around going naked in San Diego, but it was this. It made me start questioning why this was weird. And I had a lot of experiences in this community. So there was meditation every morning at 530. And by meditation, it was like a different breath technique. It wasn’t just sitting with your eyes closed. It was some of these powerful things from fire breath to five rhythms dance, and I had never really been exposed to meditation. So for me, I had this experience doing is also known as transformative breathing. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that. Yeah,
David Ralph [50:42]
absolutely.
Jake Heilbrunn [50:44]
Yeah. So I had this, it was my first time and what happens is, there’s this thing called tetany, which can happen essentially, you’re breathing so rapidly in and out that your body almost cramps up. It’s like this, so I My I wasn’t even aware of it because I was breathing so heavily that I kind of bypass my conscious mind. But then I realised that I could not move my arms that they were stuck in this position and I woke up and I started freaking out, and I couldn’t move. I was dripping in sweat. I was like in this ashram breathing with all these other people. I’m like, Oh, my God, I’m paralysed, I cannot move. And of course, after 1520 minutes, I just slowed my breath down and eventually started feeling that tingling. But that was a profound experience. For me, it was kind of almost like an out of body experience. And I kind of through that I, I learned a lot about myself, you know, spending two weeks doing things like that. But that experience specifically kind of made me really step into the person that I was becoming. And so prior towards travelling, I was kind of a big partier, very social, like, I kind of had this identity of being the happy go lucky, you know, guy who partied a lot. And I guess that experience one of the things that came up after was That. One thing was I was kind of always wearing a mask, or, you know, putting on this face. But number two was, and I love it. There’s this quote by tick, not Han, the Buddhist monk and peace activists, he says, people have a hard time letting go of their suffering, out of fear of the unknown, they prefer suffering that is familiar. And for me, there was something about people who meditated and who found just peace in very simple things. There was something that I almost was scared about. I was like, how can these people find joy in something like this, like, our don’t get bored without a life of partying and drinking and all this stuff? And I guess the thing that I realised in this community as I was becoming that person myself is I was scared of the person that I was becoming, who could find joy in the simpler things and who has had his interest changing, but I realised that once I stepped onto that other side, it was actually a much happier way of living for myself and it was like that fear of the unknown again, that was scaring me. So I I learned it was definitely a little bit of a spiritual awakening, you could say being in this community. And I learned a lot about gratitude. That was that was a big element of the community. So those were a very powerful two or two weeks for me.
David Ralph [53:13]
So just before we say goodbye to you, because I’m aware we’re coming up to the hour is something that you would do again, or is it a kind of moment in your life? Has it led you to where you want to be? Or can you see off the beaten trail to the revenge and, and other such stories?
Jake Heilbrunn [53:31]
You know, that’s a great question. I think potentially, it could go either way. I think that there’s a joy. I mean, I’m sure you’re familiar with a book vagabonding by Rolf months. Yeah. And and so I think there, there can be a lot of clarity that takes whether it’s a month sabbatical from work or whatever looks like for me, but I think I’ll definitely be doing more. I mean, I love travelling and being exposed to different ways of life. So I think I’ll definitely do more, more things like this, but At the moment, I’m just gonna kind of see where the path leads. Great stuff. And
David Ralph [54:05]
as you’ve already gone back in time, we’re not gonna do that again. So we’ve just got to say to you, Jake, what’s the number one best way that our audience can connect with you?
Jake Heilbrunn [54:15]
I think probably the best way would just be check me out on maybe Facebook is where I post a lot of stuff on my website, which is just Jake Heilbrun. HLB ru n. And the book is off the beaten trail, a young man’s soul searching journey through Central America. And that’s on Amazon on Kindle, all that stuff.
David Ralph [54:36]
You can get over links on the show notes, you can get a link from further book on the show notes as well. Jake, thank you so much for spending time with us. Again, joining up those dots and telling us about your stories. Please come back again, when you have more dots to join up, because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our paths is the best way to build our futures. Jake, thank you so much.
Jake Heilbrunn [54:57]
Thank you, David.
David Ralph [55:01]
And that was Jake Heilbrunn. And I wanted him to be on the show again. And it was a very different show, because we didn’t play the motivational speeches, we didn’t play the Steve Jobs stuff or any of the sound clips, because I wanted to really drill down into the essence of what makes somebody do what they do. And while I did it, as well, and I think we got close to that, we got a flavour of what the treble was like. And we got a flavour of how it changed him. So he came back ready for the next stage in his life. Now he’s got the book now he’s got a TED talk, all that span off from doing something bold or doing something. People might say crazy, but it gives you a story. And people like stories and businesses are built around stories. So if you are sitting in your cubicle or you’re on the bus, or the tube or whatever you’re doing, and you’re going to work, think about what you could do that can inspire the world because there’s a story waiting to be told. And you have the right About story. Thank you so much for listening to Join Up Dots. Thank you so much for everything you do for the show. We’ll see you again soon. Cheers. Bye bye.
Outro [56:09]
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you or wants to become. So he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to Join Up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on Join Up Dots.