Welcome To the Join Up Dots Podcast with Ryan Foland
Introducing Ryan Foland
Today’s guest first joining us on the Join Up Dots show, helps executives navigate the waters of what to do, in the right order, to help them harness the power of vulnerability and authenticity to build a better, more relatable and more profitable brand.
He knows that the key to building connections and ultimate profitability is allowing clients to see behind the curtain of perfection.
Let’s tell you about him….
He grew up in Huntington Beach, California.
As he says “I was the freckle-faced kid at school who got made fun of, not only because of my freckles and sun-bleached hair but I think my favourite my red suspenders flagged me as a “nerd”.
To make matters worse, both of my parents were principals.
Thankfully not at my school, otherwise live would have even more miserable.
But, I still felt like an outcast and struggled with fitting in.
I was an eager student, which was great for teachers, but not so great for making friends.
My neighbor hated me so much that he kicked me and bit me on many occasions. It was terribly painful!
I was always the outlier, the easy-target, the kid who never got picked for sports teams.
My mom felt so bad for me that she bought me a basketball of my own, but it didn’t change the fact that I had no one to play with.
He knows that you have to use your failure, mistakes, and vulnerabilities to fund your success.
He speaks across the globe, inspiring everyone that he meets by stories of screw-ups and reality.
His book, co-authored by Leonard Kim, is called Ditch the Act: Reveal the Surprising Power of the Real You for Greater Success.
It takes a strategic approach to this little-known secret to help you build an authentic, long-lasting personal brand.
He explains why exposure is important and how it helps cultivate more durable connections than any polished persona can, and how to use stories of failure and weakness in ways that build trust and loyalty from large audiences.
It is a proven guide to building a powerful personal brand through the fearless admission of just being human.
The problem: People are getting weary of—and, frankly, seeing right through—the oversized egos dominating the business world today.
The solution: By building a personal brand that is honest and authentic and that reveals personal struggles, you can build stronger, longer-lasting relationships—and achieve greater success.
My Market: Business professionals who are finding it harder and harder to break through the noise, who want to gain more respect and more followers by being their natural, flawed self instead of pretending to be perfect.
So why do people still keep on posting pictures of Learjet’s and selfies in front of photo shopped thousands?
And why does he keep on drawing stick people and posting everywhere.
Well lets find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Mr. Ryan Foland
During the show we discussed such weight subjects with Ryan Foland such as:
Ryan believes that to look at the dots in the future you have to truly look at the dots of the past.
Why the oversharing person can open you to experiences that can be truly life changing if you truly listen.
Ryan discusses why storytelling throughout our lives are the keys to changing the rules and opening doors in your world
Why the multiple personality’s of one lives really have to be dug down into and cemented to become consistent.
How To Connect With Ryan Foland
You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here– enjoy
Interview Transcription For Ryan Foland Interview
David Ralph [0:01]
Once upon a time there was a guy with a dream a dream. He’s Jobs for himself online and have a kick ass life working when he wanted him where he wanted across the world. Little did he know that dream would lead him into a world of struggle, burnout and debt. Until he found the magic ingredient and knows drunk was became a thing of the past, of course, was bad person. And now My dream is to make things happen. for you welcome to Join Up Dots.
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK. David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:56]
Yes, hello. Good morning world and thank you so much for being here with me. And my guest on the Join Up Dots show Yes, today’s guest is going to be one of those people that I suppose we can all reflect that we’ve had bits of face, we may not have had as much of it, but we’ve certainly had moments in our life. And today’s guest is he’s moved through all these things you will see, he helps executives navigate the waters of what to do in the right order to help them harness the power of vulnerability and authenticity, to build a better, more relatable and more profitable brand. He knows that the key to building connections and ultimate profitability is allowing clients to see behind the curtain of perfection. Let’s tell you about him. He grew up in Huntington Beach, California. And as he says, I was the freckle faced kid at school, who got made fun of not only because of my freckles and some bleached hair, but I think my favourite my red suspenders flagged me as a nerd, or homosexual. I’m not sure about that we have to delve into that. To make matters worse, both of my parents were principals thankfully not at my school, otherwise, life would have been even more miserable. But as Feel like an outcast and struggled with fitting in. I was an ego student, which was great for cheap teachers but not so great for making friends. My neighbour hated me so much, but he kicked me and bit me on many occasions. It was terribly painful. I was always the outlier. The easy target the kid who never got picked for sports teams. My I should say, I feel like laughing at me as well. This is this is heartfelt. I shouldn’t be doing this. I’m laughing. Yeah, I shouldn’t be laughing. My mother felt so bad for me that she bought me a basketball of my own, but it didn’t change the fact that I had no one to play with. He knows that you have to use your failure mistakes and vulnerabilities to your success and then now he speaks across the globe inspiring everyone that he means by storeys of screw ups and reality and these book co authored by legend Kim is called ditch the act rebuild a surprising power of the real you the greatest success. Now it takes a strategic approach to this little known secret to help you build authentic, long lasting personal brand and he explains why explosive is important and how it helps to cultivate more doable connections with any polished persona can. It’s a proven guide to building your brand. Now the problem people are getting weary of and quite frankly, of seeing right through the oversized egos dominating the business world today, the solution by building a personal brand that is honest and authentic and that reveals personal struggles, you can build stronger last longer lasting relationships and achieve greater success and he’s market and our market business professionals who are finding it harder and harder to break through the noise. We want to gain more respect and more followers by being their natural flow itself instead of pretending to be perfect. I love this. I really love this. So why do people still keep on posting those bloody pictures or Lear jets and selfies in front of photoshopped thousands? And why does he keep on drawing stick people and posting them? Well let’s find out as we bring onto the show to stop Join Up Dots with the one and only Mr. Rylan Foland. Good morning Ryan. How are you?
Ryan Foland [4:04]
Oh boy Sir, I’m great. You just made me stand up that was so that was so inspiring. I stood up hearing my own storey
David Ralph [4:11]
it’s miserably funny all the way through and I read I read it a few days ago and it didn’t. suspenders. Let’s get to the red suspenders. What is that?
Ryan Foland [4:22]
That was an influence from my grandma. We call her grandma Nell and she only had one son and that was my dad. And so when I was born, I’m pretty sure I was the placeholder for her son who was my dad. And my both my parents were working professionals and I was a latchkey kid, so I spent a lot of time with grandma. And I think that I picked up some of her fashion sense, which might have been a bit dated, but she really thought that the suspenders were cool and I think it’s because my grandpa wear suspenders. So you know that classic I have a chance to make my grandson mini me.
David Ralph [4:59]
I don’t know I’m liberating weapons, confess this, but I’m going to confess this anyway. Because once the book comes into my mind, I can’t stop.
Ryan Foland [5:06]
But many, many years. It’s Yeah, go for it.
David Ralph [5:08]
Many, many years ago, I was working up in the City of London, and we used to basically get up there in the morning and we’d worked at lunchtime go down the pub, and many afternoon was a blur. And in the 80s, and the 90s, there was a hell of a lot of drinking going on in London, especially at lunchtime. Now, there was a lady, I won’t say her name, but there was a lady who I was quite interested in and she was quite interested in me. And we started to sort of skirt around a relationship, but we weren’t totally there. And we started sort of like, I don’t know, pushing the boundaries somewhat within the Office, but we couldn’t really come out and be obvious about it. Because we were working. We were professionals. We had to be secret. So one day for some reason. She said to me, tonight could be your lucky night, and I went, well, that’s good because I’m around tonight, and I’ve got nothing planned. And she said, but you’ve got to prove something for me. And I went, what’s bad? And she said, if you want a lucky night to be your lucky Well, I’m even saying this. I haven’t thought about this for years. She said, You’ve got to prove it. I wearing under your Su, suspend about and garter. Right. And so I thought, That’s easy. That’s fine. I can do that. That’s no problem at all. Yeah. And so I said, Yes. Okay, I’m going to do that little bit. I know about afternoon, that they wanted us to be measured for some new suits that were part of the uniform, and I had to be measured by this woman. And as she was running her hands up my inner thigh with the tape measure.
Ryan Foland [6:39]
I was thinking, oh my god.
David Ralph [6:41]
Oh my god, what is gonna happen if she feels this? Now? She never confessed, but she did look at me and pause for a moment. So I think my undergarments were discovered me.
Ryan Foland [6:53]
You made her day so you made a difference in her in her life and she probably is on a podcast somewhere. Remember? You and that storey and protecting your identity for your own safety. So it all works out at the end of the day.
David Ralph [7:05]
Now I tried to be vulnerable there and authentic and I’m now slightly sweaty and blushing. Now, there’s a problem with being vulnerable and authentic. Did I go too far? Did I go into areas that you shouldn’t go?
Unknown Speaker [7:19]
No, I don’t I don’t think so in the book, we talked about five levels of exposure. And the idea is that it’s easier to start small because if you start sharing the big stuff, you get sweaty and things kind of seem crazy. But if you think about what happens in everyone else’s head as you were telling that storey that’s the confidence that you should have as you begin to build your muscles in becoming more vulnerable. And I want to make a quick distinction between vulnerability and weakness because oftentimes we confuse the two. Now, weakness is when you’re at a deficit, it’s when you you are either physically weak or You know, you don’t have the brainpower and there’s this there’s this ailment you feel like you’re not able to fully perform, or you’re working from a deficit. Now, vulnerability is actually different. You may feel that vulnerability is being weak, but it’s actually closer to courage. And Bernie brown talks about this, I love her research on the topic. And she says that, you know, vulnerability is one of the first look for in someone else, but the last thing we see in ourselves, and she says that to be vulnerable, actually is a feat of courage. Because you are putting yourself into the unknown and you’re not sure how I’m going to relate to wearing a suspenders and a garter belt when you’re getting sized up for a suit that you didn’t know all tied to somebody who is kind of romantically involved in it’s kind of a fun game and what you did by putting yourself out there was held need to find myself in your storey. And when you are vulnerable, you help people see themselves in your storey. And that’s that’s where a lot of this connectivity comes from. If you were to have gone into that magical special night and gotten super graphic, maybe that wouldn’t have been as appropriate. And it would have, you know, you have to understand the time and place. And when it comes to sharing it, it’s not so much about sort of shouting out from the mountaintop when it’s happening, what’s going on, so that you can sort of share the stress and the anxieties that happen. You’re reflecting on the storey that you haven’t really even uncovered or really dished out in years. And so I’m sure we can take some takeaway lessons from that. But more importantly, that level of vulnerability is making other people remember when they were in an early relationship or where there was that sort of tension that was exciting or when they were in the TSA line and they got, you know, the red light came on and they got the sat down search and you’re suddenly all of a sudden, more conscious about your body when someone’s touching it. So there’s just a lot to unpack there. But I think that storeys are a little gateway to who you are. And I challenge people oftentimes to pick one single storey from your life as though it were a scene. And then tell me just that one storey. And I bet you, you could find a storey that represents you almost as a complete person. And I think that storytelling is a huge asset. And when you become vulnerable, you start to get people to care about what you’re saying. Because it makes them feel like they’re alive. It makes them commiserate and the human experience that is sometimes miserable, sometimes stressful. And then when you get through those valleys, you find the peaks were life is really awesome.
David Ralph [10:55]
Take it from that point which makes total sense to the Country view where you see it time and time again, as I say, you’re walking past the Learjet and you go, Oh, I take a selfie there. And then it looks like I’m a celebrity. And you know, it really winds me up, and I see it all the time, all over the place. And we pass back now, Ryan, or do people still buy into that because there is fake. And certainly when I started Join Up Dots, I would say the majority of people that came on the show would be talking about fake it till you make it which I kind of understand that you’re growing into yourself and you are aiming to be that version, but you’ve got to sort of fake together. I totally understand that. But the sharing online, are we past But should we just be boxing or
Ryan Foland [11:45]
so I would love to say that we’re past it, but I am actually saddened to say that I don’t know if we will ever be past it to some extent. And I think really to look at the dots in the future, you have to look at what dots have been connected in the past and When you look at sort of generational, right, my grandma, she was in an era that, you know, the mean of living was rising. It was amazing. You have a house, you’d have these big gas guzzling cars, it wasn’t as much keeping up with the Joneses, it was more of a sense of, you know, nationalism, of coming through some of the dark times that the country had and really just focused on family. And the connectivity was within your neighbours and your close friends. And then once you transition to my father’s generation, it quickly became a matter of keeping up with the Joneses. And as you could buy more and borrow more, you know, people had more and then they started to judge themselves on the size of their neighbours homes and what their friends had. And then you transition into into this next generation, and it’s more about keeping up with the Kardashians. And I think that go to landscape.
Unknown Speaker [12:55]
David Ralph [12:57]
Yeah, Keeping Up With The Kardashians.
Unknown Speaker [13:01]
Oh, you know, it’s gone from the Joneses to them. Have you heard it? Have they made it over the pond
David Ralph [13:06]
yet? Unfortunately they have. We’ve had numerous things thrown over. And yeah, one of them is Trump. We we get a lot of him. And the other one is the Kardashians. And the Jenners, we here at the Jenna’s DeGeneres, I have to say, That’s a weird family.
Unknown Speaker [13:25]
Yeah, talking about vulnerability, I mean, you know, give it to the give it to that family for being extreme on all ends, right. I mean, you’ve got, you’ve got a lot to unpack there. But the to go back to your question of, are we sort of past this? I don’t think so. And I think that that’s both unfortunate, but it’s also a blessing in disguise. Because from a digital platform, you know, when you can not only rent a car or walk by a Learjet and take a picture and create this sort of digital snapshot and There’s some sort of, you know, utility that people feel about it. But sometimes it’s for the wrong reason. It’s for the like, and it’s for them thinking that this is what people will think is cool. It’s for them thinking that this is what they think they need to get ahead. But remember, there’s there’s these two worlds there is the digital world. And on the surface level, the person that has that picture in front of the Learjet, they might have a lot of likes, but those likes could even be contrived. And the momentum that they are getting could be somewhat level, you know, you can be you can have a pretend million dollars in the bank, you can have a billion dollars in the bank for real and you can still be emotionally bankrupt. And I think that as digital sort of has blown up. There’s now this this genuine move to a more authentic place. I think that it’s never been easier to throw up a website and create a facade and start a company or a brand or an image. But the problem is people don’t want to necessarily do business with businesses, they want to do business with people. The one core thing that that makes something real is the person that’s behind it, instead of reading the company about people are more interested now in finding about the owners, and digging into their past and trying what’s going on with it. So I think that there’s this this collective. I want to portray myself in this more successful light. And it really creates a trap because for these people, and we talked about Lear jets, and that that’s a bit extreme. But if you look at the regular person who is trying to figure out just simply what to share on social media, it’s hard for them to not see what’s out there, or scroll through Instagram and feel like their pictures are not worthy that their Honda Civic is not worth sharing. That you know that their vacations aren’t as glamorous. And the reality is that, that not everybody’s vacation is glamorous. Not everybody has an amazing car. And if you try to appeal to the higher sense of wealth, you will isolate yourself and not really connect with people on a level that builds true relationships. So no, I don’t think we’re past it. I think that intuitively, we want to put our best self forward. But there’s a difference between putting your best foot forward and putting your best face forward. Right? I think that as you start to grow, and you become stronger in understanding and being comfortable in your own skin, then you’ll start to see through some of these, the charlatans that you might have had as false idols at some extent. So I don’t think we’re past it. And it’s very confusing for people. And I think the default is that people stop sharing because they don’t feel that what they share is is successful enough. And that’s just, that’s just a really sad thing to see. And when you start going behind the curtain and sharing some of your feelings, some of the challenges that you have with the relationships, some of the life struggles that you have, and you learn that you can start to share them in a way that uncovers the learning lesson underneath it. And that helps you really discover who you are. You start to see the world in a slightly different lens.
David Ralph [17:26]
I went out with a lady the other day, I met her for lunch. And there was two ladies and basically I record all the podcasts in one day, and I went out with him yesterday. And so it sounds like I’m seeing ladies all the time, but I’m not. It’s the same ladies talking about and we sat in a pub and this lady started talking and telling us stuff and I won’t say her name, but I thought to myself, Blimey, but only me, okay, you’re telling me a lot here. This this is like open doors here. And after about an hour of it. I started to sort of Boom to this I’ve kind of got onto her level. And then one of the ladies had to resolve and so I sat there with the the over sharer, and I realised that I was more connected to her. And I have been to, I can’t remember the last time I’d had a conversation, one to one that wasn’t about, you know, the football results or what’s happening with your kids or whatever. It was deeply personal about her and her life and her issues. And at the end of the day, I left them and I thought, I want to see them again. I want to see them tomorrow, you know, and it’s it was that over sharing, but became my normalcy, but actually connected me to her in a way that I haven’t had for a long time. Does that make sense?
Unknown Speaker [18:47]
It totally makes sense. And that’s, that’s that’s the reality is that when you think about these amazing conversations and these people that you want to continue to hang out with, you probably in some of her storey resonated From oh my gosh, like I either had a similar experience or there was a.in my past that sounds pretty close
David Ralph [19:06]
to that no relation kind of with the stormy seas yet that was nothing I was close to at all it was it was a different world that she was showing me a glimpse of
Unknown Speaker [19:17]
okay, but were there elements of that different world that made you essentially as as a as a result of hearing these different storeys? Did you feel like you got to know her
David Ralph [19:28]
a little bit? I think two things, I think, but like, well, three things, it was a three level thing. First of all, I got to know her extremely well in such a short period of time better than enemy. Secondly, I got to know myself extremely well because this lady, as I said to her on your deathbed, you’re just gonna say, damn it, you know that there’s not an experience that isn’t going to be left undone. And I started reflecting on my own control and I am I’m very controlled. I don’t like to, you know, be heavily drunk. I don’t like to be crazy. I don’t like to do a lot of other stuff, you know? And I started reflecting on what side of the fence Am I going to be from now on. So it was it was life changing, because I realised that actually is a world out there, good and bad. And that’s the only world that we’re going to frequent. And so we’ve got to see as much of it experience as much of it and I think potentially in my life over the last few years, I haven’t.
Unknown Speaker [20:32]
Okay, so you did. I just want to unpack that for a little bit. Here note. Now I want everybody know I’m not a psychologist. I’m a ginger. I am not a doctor. I am a speaker. Okay, so take all of this advice with a grain of salt. But I will say for your audience, a little bit of valid validation here. I did study at the University of Reading for quite a while I studied theatre and business and I was frolicking around the And st Blimey in bars and drinking snake bites and all kinds of things. So I’m just like you
David Ralph [21:08]
do you guys still have snake bites out there? We do. We do. I was reflecting on the last time I said balls i don’t think i think we’ve moved on from there.
Unknown Speaker [21:16]
Well, maybe you misheard me I don’t know if I said balls It was probably my accent. So you know the, the, the English
Unknown Speaker [21:24]
accents not that hard, not that easy to decipher when you’re faking it and
Unknown Speaker [21:27]
it’s really bad
David Ralph [21:28]
advice. You don’t want to go into big band direct territory, we we we will fight back. We will reclaim our voices like that.
Unknown Speaker [21:37]
Well, all right, let me get more john wine in here.
David Ralph [21:41]
That’s good. I can go with that one.
Unknown Speaker [21:43]
Alright, so to dissect this conversation you had with somebody, right, they think they own bit. The key thing to understand first is that you felt like you got to know her. And that’s that’s the start. That’s the key part. If you want to build relationships with People you have to get to know them. And if all you’re doing is sharing all of the successes and all of the wins, and where things were great, it’s really hard to get to know people because you get to know people through the things that didn’t go as right. And you really learn about a person you get to know them, when you see how they deal with adversity or how they, how comfortable they are sort of opening up. So the key there is that when you have these conversations, think to yourself, Am I getting to know this person? And if you are, that’s actually the building block for somebody liking you. Now would you say that after getting to know her a little bit, however crazy her storey is and however, disconnected your life paths have been there on different sets of dots. Did you feel like after that interaction that you actually kind of liked her that there was some sort of, you know, affinity towards her as a person.
David Ralph [22:55]
I adored her. I adored her. It was such a strong reaction that I’ve had the greatest time today, because it was totally open and honest. There was no, there was no pretensions people were just saying what was happening in their life. And you listened, you responded. And sometimes I was like, Oh my god, I have no relation to this at all. My God.
Unknown Speaker [23:24]
Yeah, but it but it makes you still relate back to that human experience. So would you say now that these individuals granted that you’ve gotten to know them a little bit, and that you not only liked them, but you’ve come to adore them? Would you say that they have built some sort of trust with you?
David Ralph [23:42]
Unknown Speaker [23:45]
Okay, so let’s just look at this in simple format when you when you start to what we call ditch the act, and when you say what you’re thinking and when you share what you’re thinking and you open up a bit, not weakness, but vulnerability, you get people to get to know you. And when people get to know you, it opens up the opportunity for them to like you or have some sort of positive affinity towards you. And once you’ve built an affinity towards somebody, and you basically know that they’re not be asking, they’re not just sort of faking it, that there’s some some substance behind their experience, that you can, that you can actually take some insights and apply to your own life. That’s when you begin to trust people. And so, if you look at and break all this down, and you rip all the page, if I could find words, it’s that by ditching the Act, the result is you get people to get to know you, which allows them to like you, which ultimately, will make them trust you. And businesses about trust. podcast listeners are about trust. You know, getting a job is about trust. Building a solid relationship with somebody is all about trust, but you can’t download And so there’s the, there’s the challenge. We want people to trust us. And so we think, well, if I’m in front of a plane that shows financial success, so they might trust me to invest in my services or to or have me tell them what to do, but you’re missing, getting to know them, and you’re missing, liking them. And and it just sort of gets to the trust, but you can’t download trust. And and here’s what brings us back to your question of, are we past this? No, because people still think that you can download trust, they still think that, that you can build relationships with people without being vulnerable. And it’s a different type of relationship. It’s not going to make somebody talk about your conversation with such high regard as you have about these people that you just met.
David Ralph [25:47]
Like they spin it on his head, and let’s take into a job interview and you said, you know, quite openly there. You can build up trust getting a job. Now we know that when you’re getting a job, you basically Sit back in your best outfit and you tell them what they want to hear you want the job you want to get in there. It’s almost impossible at that situation to become totally authentic and vulnerable, wouldn’t it be because I have, I can get many jobs, I can get most jobs and looking back on them. Most of them are basically live through my teeth to get the job. And then once I was in the job, I worked like crazy to make sure I wasn’t found out. But I’ll be honest with you, that’s how it operated.
Unknown Speaker [26:29]
Yeah, yeah. And I’m laughing because I think we can all we can all associate with that we can all have that kind of similar experience of the pressure to have that perfection. Now, I have been I’ve been in a situation where I have interviewed, I would say probably more than 1000 people like it sounds like a lot but when you’re trying to hire I you know, I’ve looked through probably 10s of thousands of resumes and I’ve interviewed so many people it all blends in together like the days of your drinking at the bar. It’s just big fuzzy but If I pull some of that funds out and connect it together, I really do think that the person who is hired is hired because, yes of their accolades and their education and their fit for the job, but also with the connectivity like you’ve got to connect, you’ve got to you got to mesh with that person. And I actually put on workshops, and I work in a higher education. And so I’m very passionate about the topic of helping students understand the dynamics of interviews, and it’s amazing, you have somebody pay a lot of money, put in a lot of time. They have an amazing degree that comes from a high ranking school, you sit them in a chair, and you ask them to basically start off by explaining who they are and what’s going on. And you’ll hear a flurry of items. You’ll see body language that gives every tell possible, and you will see their pretty standard inability to convince me that I want to hire them. And so I actually usually lies a concept in the book called the exposure resume, to help them understand how to be more authentic. And the truth is in storytelling. You see these days, if I’m looking at two individuals, and somebody comes in and says, I have had straight A’s since I was in kindergarten, I have, you know, accolade, this accolade this I am perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect. Then the next person is I’m looking at what they have. And let’s say that they were a C student. But they have actually figured out how to turn those C’s into an A B plus average. Maybe they’re a first generation, you know, first generation to college, maybe they’ve had financial challenges. Maybe they come from a single parent, maybe there’s these other things that the really are struggles to go through. I believe there’s a huge difference between success and winning. Winning is you either win or you lose success is a Moving bar because when you look at it, the person who’s had straight A’s for their entire life, the person who in the interview says that they’ve never had a problem. Those people might not know how to deal with adversity, or when they get in the job and things go wrong. Are they just going to freak out? Because it’s not, it’s not like they thought it would be. So I believe that the way that we can communicate, we deal with change with challenges with disruption, with personal issues. Those are what really show our character. And so there’s an exercise that that you can think of is typically in an interview, you’ll have to give answers to questions. For those questions, come up with a storey where things failed, and explain why they didn’t go right. And explain what you’ve learned as a result, which shows why you have the skills you have now. And that’s how you can integrate a bit of vulnerability and personalization into Your interview situation because you have to connect with the person as a person. And that person who’s interviewing is seeing these drones one right after another all look the same, and they might even sound the same. But for somebody who puts that personal spin, and for somebody in an interview, who actually lets me get to know them, then I end up liking them. And if I can trust you as a candidate, I’ll hire you as an employee.
David Ralph [30:25]
Right? So what we’re talking about there is that classic hero’s journey, and for the people out there, if you think about all the movie stars that we really connect with, and the ones that we were rooting for them. They’ve always got a dream that they’re going towards VA file Rudy,
Unknown Speaker [30:44]
David Ralph [30:46]
Rocky, you could go Indiana Jones, you could go that they’re always just getting their dream, and then it goes further away. But I go one step further and I get there now with the heroes journey, it’s classically, you can pull it apart, there’s an external and there’s the internal. I don’t think people know themselves enough to be able to find what you’re talking about, even though I totally agree band. So I
Unknown Speaker [31:18]
think of it as, okay. If you look at building a resume, that is something that we are culturally aware of, right? It’s basically on one sheet of paper, write down as many buzz keywords as possible that you think somebody is going to want to hear lyst all of the good experiences, don’t mention the time that you got fired. Don’t mention the time that you almost went bankrupt. And then make sure you highlight your education promoting all of the classes that have some sort of tie into what’s happening, right like, that’s a resume at the end of the day. You’re putting all the good stuff out there, right?
David Ralph [31:54]
Yes, so he I got used to you Ryan, but when you start talking you go on to the A few minutes, I wasn’t expecting you to actually ask for my confirmation.
Unknown Speaker [32:03]
Yes, and maybe maybe I’m aware of that. So I was trying to check in a little bit there, make sure I didn’t lose you.
Unknown Speaker [32:10]
So the challenge is to think about the exposure resume as like a failure resume. If you think about the situations that didn’t go right, those storeys, then you can extrapolate the learning lessons and how you’ve changed as a person. So in this in one of these workshops that I put on for students that are trying to prepare to get jobs, you know, I’ll ask that standardised question. Give me an experience where XYZ happened or tell me about how you deal with this. And their initial answer is usually very surface level, they all sound the same, and then it’s the needles not moved. And so what we do is then we go through and we’d say, Okay, well, let’s talk about one of the classes where you almost failed, or one of the tests that you took that you did fail what it was What happened there? And we do a little bit of a workshop break it out. Now when I go and ask them the same question again, what they do is they use that storey as a baseline to answer as a result of what they’ve learned from those experiences and that that’s how you that’s how you get it. I want to go back to this hero’s journey. And I want to ask you if you’ve ever watched the show, or if you know about the Wipeout show, the British Wipeout show
David Ralph [33:25]
total Wipeout when they’re running around on bounce. Yes, yes,
Unknown Speaker [33:29]
yes, yes. Oh, my gosh, I love that show so much. And it’s because you see these people, and they’re not your typical athletes. They’re not the American Ninja warriors. They’re like the total Wipeout warriors. And they’re silly and they’re goofy and they’re doing their little dances and the commentator is so hilarious because you just want to root for the people that are having the hardest time like, the guys that can’t get over the level or they get punched off of the wall or they fall again. You’re like no, you feel so much affinity towards them. And when they finish you like sometimes I’ll get up and I’ll be like, just Yes. I’m so happy that you made it through that awful course. And why it’s because we want to root for Rudy and so find that Rudy moment find those Rudy storeys. And that’s where you start to get people to get to know you. It’s, it’s, it’s not common sense. It’s actually staring you right in the face. Just don’t see it.
David Ralph [34:24]
Now I a lot of people in England probably don’t notice Rudy, but I, I watched this film. And literally, I could have blocked I didn’t because I was a man. But I could have blood because this guy had no reason to achieve what he did. And I say to everybody, go out and find it, get it on YouTube, whatever you can do find this film because this guy, he was too small to be American, American popular. And his dad said you’ve got to work in the meal. And he said, No, I don’t want to do that. And he had to get the right qualifications. And the professor said that you can’t get these qualifications. And so he worked with Harvard and he got these qualifications. And then they said, even though you’ve got those, you now need something else. And so he worked towards it and he just kept on going, kept on going kept on going. Now, reflecting on the hero’s journey with fat, normally, you have a dream that you aim for. you strive, strive, and at the last minute, it’s taken away from you. And then you leap again. Like in total Wipeout, and you grab the hold of it and you pull yourself up. We’ve moody and we’ve life generally is constant rejection is constant failure is not these dramatic moments that make such an inspiring towel, come alive on on film. So if we’re not keeping diaries, if we’re not reflecting on that, these things will just bypass us. It’s very difficult to find the common thread that is running for our life because life is running at such a speed I would have said
Unknown Speaker [35:56]
and let me ask your opinion when it comes to the Interview Questions. What is probably the most revered the most feared the most anxious driven question that comes out of the interviewers mouth when they ask you what, what is the one question that everyone fears if you haven’t worn suspenders Would that be okay side side note, because we’ve been talking about suspenders, and that’s just funny sort of side little thing, like, we’re not connected on that. That’s like a dot that we have forever, like forever, we can make fun of suspenders and bring back to that right. And we would have never had that if you would not have gotten vulnerable and really made me laugh to connect that you have some funny suspenders storeys, too.
David Ralph [36:39]
Okay. I’m with you. I’m with you. And so the number one question is, I would say, what can you do for our company?
Unknown Speaker [36:49]
No, but the feared question that’s I’m prepared for and I’m going to come and bring my a game. I’m going to do this and that. What the one question which is, okay, all of this looks great. Johnny and Jane. But can you tell me some of the things that you are not so strong at what your weaknesses are? And it’s like, Don’t don’t don’t know, how do I tell them that I’m not good at something? Right? Like, that’s that that’s the pinnacle thing that we’re talking about here. Why do I ask you as an interviewer? What are some of your weaknesses? It’s because I know that you have weaknesses. Like let’s be real here, and it’s such a fearful thing. They’re there in point is that single question. From an interviewer standpoint, you probably get more information about how the person really acts or really is, but people skirt around it and then they go well, I’m, I’m going to tell them something that I’m weak at, but I’m going to share that that’s actually an advantage. That’s what I do. Like,
David Ralph [37:55]
yeah, that’s that’s what I used to do. I used to say, Yeah, my my failure is obsessed with work. And I know, I shouldn’t be working 15 hours a day for a company and I should have a life. But no, that is my big failing. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker [38:11]
So you can use that opportunity to share a real storey of when things really didn’t go well, and that you actually learn from it and you are a different person as a result of it. But that makes you come across as somebody who’s honest, because let’s face it, life is not always peaches and cream. There’s a lot of struggle and strife and you talk about internal I mean, think of all the self talk that we’ve done over the years, where you don’t feel like you look good or maybe you’re talking down on yourself and you’re creating these limiting beliefs and you start to believe yourself, but it’s like, if you think about it, what gets you excited? What gets you motivated? Why do you want this job? There are a lot of storeys both good bad and your version of ugly that You can leverage so what do you do? You create what we call an exposure bank. You create storeys you dig up these storeys you think about these storeys like this. There’s some good storeys that you have not shared with people. And those are storeys that you can have in what we call our exposure bank. And then you can utilise those storeys to create content to be cornerstone for answers to connect with people and and have something to say. I think that the digital life that we live makes it difficult to have real life conversations and that’s a shame. In the book we talked about how there should be no difference between the digital online and your your non digital offline. But there are some people that are very confident tweeting or Facebook in or taking a perfect Instagram photo, but you get them in a bar and you’re hanging out over drinks, and it’s awkward. And then you probably they probably pull out their phone to the safety net and probably just like check their email or check this out. I’ll show
David Ralph [40:00]
you a storey that came out the other day and it This is me being open again and I’ve kind of alluded to this many times through Join Up Dots. Join Up Dots is me being me. It’s it’s the podcaster me, okay? I don’t walk around talking like I do on here. And I used to be very good being one to one. I used to do training courses I used to stand up presenting to people, I used to do induction courses, making people feel very at ease when I came into a company. And so it was the personal approach. When I got into Join Up Dots. I realised but that didn’t work. I had to be a different type of person. And I had to be a chameleon and I had to change when I went into a bar wants to meet some people through the show. And I lost myself because I couldn’t decide on who to be. Shouldn’t I be podcaster person? And I went that way. And I realised they thought, oh my god, what’s he about? He’s a bit full of himself because it was me being a bigger version. So I went from a normal sort of 50% down to 22%, losing myself and just sat there quietly. And over a period of time, I think I built up like social anxiety because I didn’t want to put myself into a position where I thought that people were expecting this person, and they actually got that person or they were expecting that person. And I got that. So I didn’t do anything at all. Now, that has become a kind of storey that connects me with people. And when I share that by almost query, while I would ever think that way, but they understand it as well.
Unknown Speaker [41:33]
And I think you bring up something that a lot of us face in different ways. Now, if you are human, that means then you might actually interact in your work environment in one way, in your home environment with your wife or your husband in one way with your friends and your buddies in an entirely different way. And when you meet new people, there might be like a fifth personality and there are people who are committed to mental institutions from Multiple Personality Disorder, yet we walk around, and there’s multiple people that we see ourselves being it’s like, we put on a suit when we’re out. And then when we’re home, we’re in sweats and board shorts. And this does become something that causes stress and causes anxiety and, and has a sort of plane to these different, these different personalities.
David Ralph [42:22]
So how does somebody do that out to somebody? You know, when we’re talking about being authentic? Do they just share everything? Or should they not share it? Because, you know, I don’t do selfies. I don’t do that kind of thing. But I know a lot of people do. And I don’t do it because I can never think of anything worthwhile to selfie about or to share. It’s interesting on a podcast, I can open my mouth and I can go for hours, but actually, on a snap or a post or a tweet, I find it restrictive because I don’t know what area of authenticity I should be.
Unknown Speaker [42:56]
Okay, great question. So how do you take these multiple personal Nowadays, and how do you actually find sort of this one true lane that you’re in? Well, the idea is that you likely have to get to know yourself a little bit more, you have to interview yourself, you have to discover what you’re all about in the book, we call it the rapid reflection discovery process. And the idea is that people oftentimes don’t think that they have a brand or they think that, oh, when the time is right, I’m going to build a personal brand. bollocks. You have a personal brand, whether you know it or not. The difference is whether or not you’re participating in that narrative. And when it comes to a brand, I really believe that it’s not just what you want to be known for, and just what everybody else thinks. It’s actually the intersection between the two. So you jumped to the question of what do I share and do I just share it all? I’m taking it a step back and saying, you need to first really like understand who you are, and then what you share will start to make sense. And if you are, if you’re not clear on sort of your core messaging, the problem that you’re passionate about solving, you know, your hobbies, what you actually enjoy doing, then then it just becomes confusing. And so I find that a lot of people who are trying to build a brand and they’ve they’re actively taking steps to raising their digital profile or their digital footprint is that they’re doing the right things in the wrong order. And I want to say that again, because I really think this is something to think about as you’re trying to connect the dots. You’re doing the right things you’re writing, you’re trying to speak, you’re on social, you’re engaging, you’re doing these things, but you might be doing them in the wrong order. And the very beginning some of the first couple steps is to like, figure out who you are, you know, it seems a little existential, but the could come in the form of writing out your bio. Your bio is the single most important digital document that you can have online, hands down. Why? Because it’s a chance for people to get to know you. If you look at my bio, you see me and my red suspenders like you see the freckles, you see the you see this little ginger flower, who people kept trying to pick on or just literally pick. But the idea here is that it’s not about, it’s not about trying to decide what to take a selfie behind. If you listen to what you said, like you’re just not that into selfies, and that’s totally cool. That you your strength is in speaking and you’ve got the gift of gab and you’re able to be yourself on the podcast, because it’s an opportunity for you to be you. I mean, you’re telling yourself that you’re giving yourself permission to be a little bit silly to be high energy to kind of, quote unquote ham it up a little bit, but that’s still you and I bet you you get into a bar and You’re comfortable with these ladies you’re just talking to, you have a couple drinks, and elements of this personality in this conversation come out. So it’s not about trying to decide what to share or to share it all. That’s not the idea. The idea is to really use this concept of an opportunity. If I was going to be the same person in front of my parents in front of the person that I live with in front of my co workers, what would that mean? It means that you just sort of have to start chipping away to let people know in these different situations where like your core is that
David Ralph [46:32]
so what we’re doing? Yeah, so image, we’ve got a big ice block, and we’re just chipping away chipping away until we get the angel in the middle and the angel you go that’s pretty it that that that’s what I was aiming for. That’s me.
Unknown Speaker [46:45]
Yeah, but it might look more like a gargoyle and that’s totally cool. It doesn’t have to look like an angel.
David Ralph [46:53]
It would it would be an angel. Nobody wants to chip down to their authentic self and find a goggle goodnight God say
Unknown Speaker [47:00]
Yeah, but but once you do that, and you become comfortable in your own ice, you’ll realise that there’s a lot of people that that look just like you that that have similar challenges. I mean, if you think of
David Ralph [47:11]
sleep with gargoyles
Unknown Speaker [47:14]
Yeah, I bet you gargoyles will be they want to sleep with gargoyles, for sure, for sure.
Unknown Speaker [47:19]
If you look at some of these, some of the historically most powerful people in the world, what do they do? They gather into these, like masterminds and they get together in the bones club, or as a Freemasons or these these exclusive little groups. And, you know, they talk about in those little exclusive groups
David Ralph [47:41]
know, you tell me,
Unknown Speaker [47:43]
they talk about stuff that they’re afraid to share outside of the group. They get real, they talk about how their marriages failing, they talk about their internal feelings and how they’re struggling with this. They’re admitting why their businesses failing and some of the moral challenges that they’re facing. And that’s why it becomes such a crazy bondage. environment. You see the most successful people who create the most successful bonds with other people. It’s not because they’re, you know, in a room sipping martinis, all talking about the amazing things. Like it’s it’s when they’re getting there, they’re getting their gargoyles together. But here’s the thing, people are afraid to go from ice cube to gargoyle slash Angel it. It’s that process that we really try to address with the book. If you’re posting with your amazing pictures and you’re sharing your best stuff, we’re not saying that’s a bad thing. But if you’re posting something and feeling anxiety about the next post, or you’re in in nature and you’re too consumed about getting the right angle to let people know that you’re in nature, as opposed to just being mindful and taking the energy and from the redwoods, this dissonance This is a challenge. So there are people there are tonnes of authentic people who might not be portraying themselves authentically online. That that’s the problem is that they don’t know whether or not they should be at 22 or 50%. And the fact that they’re thinking about that creates anxiety. And so the idea here is not to just share it all. It’s to admit that you’re probably not sharing stuff that you could. And when you start to uncover those storeys, you can start to identify what level they are. And so the best way to do anything is in baby steps. So level one are silly things that you either think, or that you do, you’re spilling water on yourself, you’re missing, you’re losing your water bottle. You’re losing your air pods. You’re having fashion full pause, you’re at the gym, and you’re there for 45 minutes with your air pods in only realising after 45 minutes that you haven’t turned the music on. Like these little things that happen every day. These are things that you can start with. Level Two is about challenges that you’ve had in relationships. Know, you’re doing you’re not putting people on blast, but we’ve all had challenges with other people. And so when you start to talk about how those challenges impact you and how you’re feeling, people can resonate with that. Level Three is where things get a little bit more serious. Maybe there is some financial challenges that you’ve gone through level four is even more serious. Maybe there’s a divorce or a failed business or, or something that like you’re afraid to put out there. And then level five is stuff that you shouldn’t share. So if you look at this, the answer to your question is baby steps. Start to to expose level ones, and then level twos and when you get comfortable level threes, and the the weight that is lifted off your shoulders when some of these things are out there in the world. You just can’t you just you just can’t put a value on it because it becomes so valuable because it helps you become more comfortable in your own skin. It helps you to attract more authentic people that makes sense for being in your life. And you really, it’s a lifestyle, ditching the act isn’t a moment about just sharing the bad stuff. It’s a way of as you go about your day, sharing your journey and your experiences that include the good, the bad, and your version of ugly,
David Ralph [51:22]
bringing the show to an end because it could go on for about two hours here. It is strange that we’re doing a whole episode about what to share and what not to share a stranger there because you know, I grew up in the 70s never shared anything it never shaping. And now you’re in a situation where, you know, people are always posting things and tweeting this and tweeting now I do. I do wonder a lot. Why, really? Why do we have to do this? When business has always operated without it in the past?
Unknown Speaker [51:54]
Yeah, we look at business with or without a cell phone. It’s amazing to think that, that people used to do business Without phones, and then a phone came on technology change and things just sped up and changed a little bit. And now there’s a cell phone now there’s a computer. So I think at the root, you said something that I just want to point out and I won’t talk too long on, it’s that we’re talking about sharing, I think we’ve always shared, but we just have new platforms to share on we have new pressure, we have new audiences, we have an entire world that’s looking at it. And so if you look at the the solid relationships that you’ve had in your life, you probably could go to those people and and you probably have shared the challenges and you have shared these darker moments or the sad moments. And when you go to your friend, you’re like, Oh my gosh, I’m really upset. What do they do? They go, Oh, my gosh, tell me about it. Like, I want to be there for you people are empathetic. But now in this digital landscape, it’s just gotten confusing, because we’re confusing real connection with just likes and shares.
David Ralph [52:50]
Well, I’ve got to jump in on it because I think what you were saying, I don’t think it’s right, Ryan. I don’t think it’s right. I think nowadays, that connection with deep friendship where people say, I need to be there for you, I think because everything is done in a soundbite, or an image or a post or a tweet, even if you reach out to people. And this is a pointed question, because I went through a terrible time, and I basically reached out to people, and not one of them responded. Now, after the event, once I got myself together, I sort of actually said to them, you know, well, bloody hell. Well, yeah, you weren’t there for me. And they all pretty much when I didn’t realise it was that serious, because it’s all share, share, share, share, people don’t actually look at it and give it the time to actually go. I think I need to get back to this person. I need to really look at this, you know, it’s it’s just like a conveyor belt that whizzes in front of your eyes. So I do think there is strong connections, but I don’t think it’s as easy as what you’re saying where you, you share and people instantly build a connection with you and they want to help because I don’t think that they Giving them the self the time to reflect that there’s a reason to help.
Unknown Speaker [54:06]
And I take all that you’re saying, but I want to point back to the conversation that you had with people that you had recently where you got to know them, you adored them, you trusted them. And now those are people that you could connect with. So it’s really I agree that there are people out there who are desensitised to seeing all kinds of booze everywhere, and they might not take it as seriously. But I say that is that much more of a reason why this concept is so important to really build authentic relationships with people on the basis of being real so that when you do need them, they actually know you and they like you enough, and you know that they trust this situation to actually help them out. And so, I will echo what you’re saying, but I’ll say that’s a reason why all of this conversation is so damn important.
David Ralph [54:56]
Well, I’m going to back to back at you know, I haven’t I haven’t read anything to backpack. I just, I just felt like taking control. And at the very last minute, well this is I’m gonna lose your podcast is my podcast. Yeah, I’m the host. Well, what I’m going to do now I’m going to press a button and bring you to the Sermon on the mic. The parts of the show when you can go back in time and speak to your younger self. And if you went into a room and you spoke to the young Ryan, what age would you choose and what advice would you like to give him? Well, we’re going to find out because I’m going to play the music and when it beats your up, this is the Sermon on the mic.
Unknown Speaker [55:38]
We go with the best
Unknown Speaker [55:56]
Ryan. Now first of all, don’t be upset that you’re doing Name is not good as an abbreviate. I know you don’t like Ryan, but you’ve always wanted people to call you something other than Ryan. Because every time you say your name is Ryan, they think that your name is Brian. And then you tell them no, it’s with an R. And so they think Brian but know your name is really Ryan. But here’s the thing. You need to be so proud of your name, because your name means little King. And I gotcha. Here, in middle school, very transitional year. You’re in seventh grade now. And you just left your school in sixth grade, because you realise that you didn’t seem to belong. So you’re here now at a different school, only to realise that you’re the new kid and nobody really cares about anything other than making your life miserable because it makes them feel better. Well, guess what? This pattern of feeling like you’re not belonging is something that you will continue to struggle with and be careful overcompensating to try to please people to become accepted so that you can belong. The thing that I want you to realise is that what you love to do the most, being on the water, surfing, skateboarding, sailing, all of these things that you escaped to, to sort of get away and feel good. These are things that you will continue to appreciate for the rest of your life. And it’s unfortunate that there are going to be people who come into your life, who smell that you are eager, who smell that you are hungry for acceptance, that see your work ethic, and will essentially get them selves in a situation where you think you can trust them. But I want you to think of one very particular thing as you go through your life. I’m not going to tell you to avoid the things that will wrong, because those are the things that actually end up making us strong. What I am going to say is that you need to realise that you have belonged this entire time. Just because you weren’t picked on the basketball team doesn’t mean that you’re the only person going through that. There’s only what five people on each side of the team, how many kids are at school, that one guy who keeps tormenting you this year, he will come back 15 2030 years later, and come to you for advice on the fact that his kid is being bullied and it’ll come full circle. So the sooner that you know that you do belong, the sooner you will realise that this entire time and for your entire life. Everything that is happening is an opportunity to learn more about who you are. And once you do, the sooner you do that, the more your life will be happy will be enjoyable. And you’re really connect with people that you can trust and who won’t take advantage of you. At the end of the day, every single day is something to appreciate. Because as you get close to 40 years old, you’re going to look back and be like, Damn, where did it all go. So make more time for skateboarding. When you can do not turn down the option to get onto a sailboat. When your mom asks you, if you need help with homework, don’t snap at her because you think that she thinks that you’re not doing well, except help along the way and know that you do belong. And when you hear this thing called Bitcoin, no matter whether it makes sense or not, buy it. At the end of the day, each and every day should be treated as though it’s fresh. And don’t ever lose your passion for nature. Don’t ever lose your passion for helping other people. And realise that when you feel like you’ve been taken advantage of, it’s because you have and that’s probably because you Like you’ve always wanted to belong, but you belong right where you are. You belong with the friends who support you. You belong in a space, in nature, in business in life, where you are comfortable in your own ginger skin. And you may think that your freckles and your ginger Enos is working against you right now, because everybody’s coming down on you, but you just wait because being a ginger is something that is so crucial to you for the rest of your life you will be known as the ginger MC. When people ask you who you are, you’re going to explain to them that you are a ginger. So enjoy the ginger journey. Appreciate and don’t ever be ashamed of your freckles. And always remember to wear your sunscreen.
David Ralph [1:00:49]
Great advice and to the young Ryan learn playing to play the guitar and you can pretend you achieve and when you get older. he’s doing he’s doing Oh, yeah. centres Ryan. What’s the The number one best way that our audience can connect with you, sir.
Unknown Speaker [1:01:04]
That thing called the internet and it’s probably one of the most difficult URLs for you to remember in the history of the life. It is Ryan dot online I think
David Ralph [1:01:17]
I don’t think that’s what I’ll go I’ve got
Unknown Speaker [1:01:19]
HDXZ Oh, yeah, well, you know, hey, you know,
Unknown Speaker [1:01:23]
you always put yourself in front of your business, your book, that’s a personal brand. So if you want to find out about me, you go to Ryan online. If you want to learn about ditching the act, grab the book, you can go to, actually he Amazon’s probably the best because I don’t think they have Barnes and Noble over there. But yeah, ditch the comm. Check it out. Find me on social see about creating a connection. And you know, it’s really just about sharing experiences. So I share my good, my bad my version of ugly and I feel like social is a necessary evil. But the My favourite thing about connecting with people is actually getting to know them. And so feel free to reach out. I just, I think that if you take anything away from today, it’s Don’t be afraid to start to think about putting yourself out there and baby steps. Because if you only share the good and do not share the bad, you’re going to miss connections that you never knew you had.
David Ralph [1:02:29]
Yeah, great stuff. Great stuff. Well, and thank you so much for spending time with us today. joining up those dots and please come back again, when you got more dots to join up because I do believe that by joining the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures Ryan, thank you so much.
Ryan Foland [1:02:46]
David Ralph [1:02:50]
Ryan Foland. Yeah. So it’s difficult, isn’t it to be totally authentic and share your warts and all and stuff as opposed to what we were saying it Episode is is not sharing your warts and all, when the warts and all aren’t there to be shared, but more picking your moments picking your storeys realising where the connections will be made. And if somebody tells you something, empathise and say, Well, actually, I don’t really share this, but this is it. I think it’s more powerful on personal connections when blasting these things out on social media, but by building up to that stage, you will build stronger and stronger connections all the way through. Until next time, as always, thank you for listening to Join Up Dots if anybody wants to jump over and leave ratings and reviews on iTunes so we can give you a name check, love to be able to do that. But until next time, we’ll see you again. Bye bye. Are you ready to start your own podcast and really make it work for you bringing customers and profits into your life and your business in the easiest way possible? Or perhaps you’ve already launched and aren’t getting the results you want? If so, I’m going to teach you The information that you need that makes all the difference to your success. Now, don’t be fooled into believing what others are teaching you when it comes to what makes your podcast get those results. podcasting success is not about the podcast. It has nothing to do with a recording or equipment. It has everything to do with understanding your market and making those customers come to you time and time again. This is roar 100% live behind the scenes podcasting mastery not shown anywhere else. If that’s of interest, head over to Join Up Dots and book a time to speak with me to make sure that you’re a fit for our next course. This is podcasting mastery live at Join Up dots.com