The Simpsons Copywriting Tips With Sage Polaris

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Full Transcription of Sage Polaris (The Simpsons) Interview

Intro [0:00]
Life shouldn’t be hard life should be a fun filled adventure every day. So now start joining up dots tap into your talents, your skills, your God given gifts and tell your boss, you don’t deserve me. I’m out of here. It’s time for you to smash that alarm clock and start getting the dream business and wife You will of course, are dreaming of. Let’s join your host, David Ralph from the back of his garden in the UK, or wherever he might be today with another JAM PACKED episode of the number one hit podcast. Join Up Dots.

David Ralph [0:40]
Yeah, good morning to welcome to Join Up Dots. Thank you so much for being here with us on the show. Today’s guest is going to be sharing our secrets of copywriting success all the way from the valleys of LA. Now back in the day as assumed to be mum, she was inspired to create and run her own business to effectively take control of her time and future like so many future mothers had the urge and desire to do now. 10 years later, she’s built a thriving copywriting business with the underlining intention of supporting women who want to make money from home, giving them the confidence to go after their dreams. Now what is the secret behind our success? Now one of her secret weapons is her Simpsons policy. She’s adapted the Simpsons, with DISC personality profiles usually used for hiring and team building to a colour coded copy system that helps writers appeal to four biotypes on sales pages, Facebook ads, and landing pages. Now, we’re constantly told that if you’re talking to everyone, you’re reaching no one and that appealing to multiple audiences on the same page is a jumbled mess. But she says when you apply this framework skillfully, you can dramatically improve your conversion rate by speaking directly to the different kinds of buyers within an audience that land on your page. So when did the Simpsons reveal themselves as future business partners? And where were the copywriting mistakes that she made in the past that led her to this? And would she go back and change them? Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Sage Polaris.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [2:25]
Great to be here and that was quite the intro. I really appreciate it. Yeah,

David Ralph [2:28]
you’re lovely sage, you can say all the nice things, you can stay here as long as you want to it just be you and me. We won’t record a show with just chat. But of course, we got stuff to talk about. So I’m going to be honest with you. Obviously, we’re going to talk about copywriting. But I’m going to be honest with you. I’ve never once seen an episode of The Simpsons, even though I do know the characters for some bizarre reason they just kind of doing the the EVO aren’t they they just sort of float through to you. But I’ve never seen the Simpsons have I let myself down in your eyes, sage.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [3:01]
I will give you a pass if it’s all good. You know, I chose that show just because it is mainstream. I will say though the show has been running over two decades now. So the longevity of the show and the effectiveness of the show is what I’m excited to share with everyone because then you can apply that to your own business.

David Ralph [3:18]
Yeah, I actually walk into hotel rooms sometimes and it’s on and I think no, don’t watch it. Don’t watch it. I want to, I want to keep that going. So I want to take you back in time because I always find it fascinating when ladies are going to have a baby. And obviously huge changes, huge changes not just in your body, but in your finances and your situation. But it seems to be time and time again. This is when ladies go I actually want to add more on to it by starting a new business, when effectively I don’t know anything about business. Why? Why do it?

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [3:56]
Yeah, so for me at the time, I was actually working in the museum industry. And this is kind of an intense conversation. But I think it’s an important one. I was working for the museums and I heard within earshot I had applied to work in a specific museum department. And I had heard within earshot the manager at the time, say that he would never hire a woman to work full time at this company that I went to work for. So it was a rude awakening to the fact that there were limits to the industry that I was in it was very male dominated industry. And so you know, not all men are like that. But it was really intense hearing that from someone who I wanted to potentially be my boss. And so I decided that I needed to create my own opportunities. And it it having an online business created that for me. And it’s interesting because I look back now, you know, 10 years later and I in a single year I might make you know a certain amount of dollars, but now I can make that in a month. So it’s to me obvious why I would start a business This but in the beginning, you’re right. There’s a lot of challenges that come with diving into that world. And I don’t recommend to everyone to dive in headfirst the way I did, I went from working full time for museums to starting my own business, basically, within two weeks when I gave my notice to the company I did end up working for. And it’s a lot too to make that decision. But I am a type of person who could tolerate a lot of risk. So I was excited about the potential of owning a business. And for others, I would say like if you have the option to like, slowly dial down your day job and slowly work up to working into a business. It’s ideal for sure.

David Ralph [5:42]
Yeah, I agree with you totally. I quit my job just because, as we say, over here, I got my knickers in a twist, I got annoyed with the people I was working with. And I said like, That’s it, I’m off. You can’t stop me. And I quit. And after three days, I thought to myself, Oh, my God, what have I done? And I wasn’t brave enough to go back and say, Can I have my job back? I’ve made a mistake. But there was certainly a period in the early days when I was thinking, Jesus Christ, I don’t know what I’ve done here. And it was like a mad panic. So that description, but the entrepreneur is the one that jumps and then makes the parachute as they’re falling to their death. I think it’s stupid. I think build a runway, build a runway as long as you can do until that runway is just a natural step off.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [6:34]
Yeah, definitely. And, you know, I had a bigger vision for me, it was realising that when I work with, you know, I work with women and men, but particularly when I work with women, I want them to have the potential to out earn every man in their life. And honestly, it’s not about competition, but it is about having choices. And that when I hit that tipping point, in my own household, it was a big deal to me. So I loved having more choices in my life. And so that is what having a business has afforded me.

David Ralph [7:01]
Now, this is a real interesting conversation, because I wasn’t expecting to do this because that man, that man, West West, say it as it is, was a sexist pig. Because women are as good as men and men are as good as women. And we can all do the same jobs, or the majority of them. Now, when you’re saying to ladies, that you can earn more than men, or you can earn as much in a month as you could in a year. It takes it that’s a journey. That’s a journey of belief. And I always think that that personal belief is one of the hardest bits to foster in yourself. Because even though you are saying the words, you’re doing the word suddenly, in my case, in the early days, I told me, I really believed it. And I didn’t really believe it until we made what was it three years salary. And one evening, one day, we have a joint venture that I did. And then it was, Oh, my God, oh, my God, and it was just a switch that sort of change. So how do you get ladies and men to actually believe that it’s possible and believe in themselves,

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [8:11]
I think a big part of it for me early on in my business was surrounding myself with people who had achieved the things that I wanted to achieve. So looking for mentorship, or even peers, creating community with them so that we could all talk about these things, and I could see it in their business, I think it helped me quite a bit to, for example, like be in a community of other copywriters and to support each other and to talk about the back side of our business and to really see their potential for earning and know that that was something I could have to So regardless of what kind of work it is, you want to do surround yourself with people who are maybe a couple of steps ahead of you so that you can see oh, okay, like, this is how they got to where they’re at. And then find your own way and create your own business model that supports you and your business and the life that you want. And then being able to share ideas and thoughts and growth strategies and all of those things with the people around you is the thing that made the biggest difference for me

David Ralph [9:13]
for sure. Now did you know that you wanted to be a copywriter at the beginning? Did you was words your game?

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [9:20]
Yeah, I did I so I had done a little travel blogging by night when I was still working full time for the museum’s and so I started to experiment with that. And then I also did some local journalism for some publications here in my city. And it turned me on to this whole idea of writing online and then I found the book The well fed writer by Peter Bowerman. And that changed my whole world because it was like wait, you can write for business owners and write their websites and they’ll pay you well for it. And so that book alone like gave me so many resources and so many ideas about how this would be possible and just starting with like local net Working getting to know business owners in my area is really how I got the copywriting business going and then slowly building online relationships and being able to create more of a global brand where I’m supporting people all over the world. Thank goodness for the internet.

David Ralph [10:14]
Yeah, absolutely. And, and but also these terrible the internet, you know, because it can wrap its tentacles around you and mean that a global business is on global timescales, but people want you over time. So how, how do you manage that? And and the bigger question I want to jump back onto is when you work while you’re working nights in the museum,

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [10:39]
no, so I was working during the day, I had a very early shift. But I’d be off by 3pm. And then I would come home and work on the writing for travel, blogging and all that. And in between projects at the museum, I would travel different parts of the world. And then as I started with my business and having to manage my time, like you’re saying, like being available to people, all times of the day, I hired a project manager pretty early on, and we created very specific systems around how we would work with our clients. So that really helped me to not feel overwhelmed by client work. Because it is a thing, like you want to make sure your clients are happy. And so I found like when you book clients, you really need to walk them through your whole process so that they’re clear when and what is happening so that everyone feels like things are happening. And they’re not questioning like when are they going to get a draft from you. All of that is laid out in the very beginning when I work with my clients, so that and we use like it’s called a waterfall based project management system. So when we create one piece of the project, for example, like if we’re writing a sales page for a client, and then we need to move on to the sales emails, we get the sales page approved, and then we work on the emails. So everything’s very clearly laid out. And I found that really helps with managing my time with my clients, you were

David Ralph [12:01]
quite forward thinking to invest in a sort of a project manager, right? In the early days, because were you at a stage when you thinking Jesus Christ, you know, I’m frazzled here, or were you setting the foundations to stop getting to that point,

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [12:16]
you know, I was really blessed early on in my career to work, or not to work to write on to write, so to speak on stages. I was very blessed to speak on stages for masterminds with people like Rick mulready, who are really well known in the marketing industry. And so I had a lot of clients coming from speaking on stages at private masterminds. And so because I realised the flow of clients was gonna be so intense, I said to my team, like, we need to hire somebody to help manage this. So for me, it was more like, seeing how much was coming into the business in terms of client flow and realising like we we need someone to help manage this versus, you know, like, a lot of people will who have been service providers for a while, they’ll instead be like, well, I can’t manage all this client work and burning out, like you were saying, so instead, I’m going to, you know, create a course or do some kind of one to many scale my work. But for me, I realised early on, like, why can’t I scale my private client work and do that by having a project manager and also writers who worked on my team who support the projects, I was still always the face of the meetings and doing quality control and everything, but I kind of took like a copy chief position in my business so that I could manage all of those clients and make sure that they all felt taken care of.

David Ralph [13:39]
So you still look young and youthful, and not haggard, and energy sucked out of you. Because I, I aged about 50 years in about five years at the beginning of my entrepreneurial journey.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [13:53]
I make condolences to everyone because it does happen quite a bit.

David Ralph [13:58]
It does. And he is a big part of Well, I don’t know the answer to it. This is the problem because you have ambition. You have drive, and you feel that you can outwork the problems. And he it’s just it’s ludicrous, actually, what you should do is walk away from it and give yourself breathing space and come back refreshed and stuff, but you don’t because you’re in a mad panic to make something happen really. So you’re you’ve still got your vibrancy, you still feel young and youthful, you still feel fit and bouncy. Do you you haven’t had those dark times.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [14:36]
You know, we all have our different versions of dark times for sure. For me, it looks quite different. But at the same time I think what you’re talking about David is quite common like you will give anything to the business to have it be successful and it’s a natural evolution I think to be in that stage of business where you’re like, oh my goodness, this has to work. And then as things progress, you know the issues I came up with against was actually Saying yes to too many things in terms of speaking, like being on too many stages going to any places and realising that that part was wearing me out a bit. And I needed to learn to say no.

David Ralph [15:10]
What’s that ego? Was that ego driven? Were you thinking, oh, somebody wants to hear from me,

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [15:16]
personally, and just also I love to travel. So it was fun to go to these places. Yeah, so I think it’s a little bit of both for me. And I’m really grateful for all those opportunities. But being more discerning. The further along I got in business was really important for me. And then of course, the pandemic solved all of that, because I had said, yes, so I’ve been to speaking gigs, and then I couldn’t go because we had COVID, unfortunately. And I don’t wish that on the world stage on any of us. But there was a silver lining for me that it got me to slow down and rethink my business model.

David Ralph [15:49]
I spent years standing on stages. And then when I hit Join Up Dots, and I started doing this, I told the world constantly, oh, I’m fed up with that. That’s why I’m doing this. And I never get asked never get asked to do public speaking in any shape or form after, after the first two years. And I think I just set a a stall route, that I don’t want to go onto a stage and get to some hotel and sleep Vale may own overnight and stuff. And every now and again, it’s quite exciting. But it can become just a grind the Carnot

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [16:26]
Yeah, it can be and you know, it’s really beautiful that we have these tools. And I, you know, as far as an online business, and I think like, it’s fun to see the tide change in terms of like, now everybody knows what Zoom is before, like, no one really knew what I was doing or how I was doing my business from home. And I think it’s a bit more clear now to people. So the opportunities, I think, in terms of online speaking, been incredible for me too. And I’m really grateful to be here, but also to be able to speak in other people’s communities just by sitting down in my office at home in LA,

David Ralph [17:01]
let’s hear from Jim Carrey, we’ll be back with sage,

Unknown Speaker [17:03]
my father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.

David Ralph [17:29]
So now you’ve kind of worked in the museum and you’re doing what you’re doing what is a safe job?

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [17:35]
Oh, that’s so interesting, a safe job. I think for me, you know, creating this business, there is a sense of safety and the fact that I’ve been doing it for so long, and that what feels safe to me is knowing this incredible network of people that I have, that I can lean into after 10 years of being known in my industry, that feels, I guess the relationships that I’ve built all of these years feel safe to me. And I think, you know, a safe job for someone else might feel completely different. But I do feel like right now, things are, you know, in the corporate world are more up in the air than it’s ever been, I think it’s expecting more people than it ever has. So, you know, everyone gets to define that for themselves. But for me, the relationships that I have is what makes me feel safe in my job.

David Ralph [18:30]
And the other question on that clip is Do you love what you’re doing now? Or do you kind of be I actually, I fancy a change. Now I’ve been doing it 10 years.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [18:40]
I love this, I actually really love what I’m doing now because my business has evolved. So I have been serving private clients for about the first seven years of my business. And in the last three years, I realised like you had to know somebody knows somebody to be able to hire me, there was a lot of referral going on in my business. And so I decided to create two other revenue streams, I now have a copy template membership, which I really love because it’s the more accessible way to work with me, I’d never had like what I consider to be low cost, even though I know it’s a big investment for people still. So I never really had that. So these last three years, I’ve really built an audience and created that membership. And then I also have what’s essentially a mastermind but I call it a collective. And that’s a community like a six month group that I hang out with. And so, because my business has evolved these last few years, I’ve kind of stepped out of like, I mostly had my clients in the spotlight and they were the ones who are, you know, the most visible and all of those things. And now my my business has changed even though it seems like it’s the same. I’m still doing a lot of the same things where I’m much more involved in building my own audience and being in the spotlight for myself. So that has been really fun and citing and this keeps me invigorated.

David Ralph [20:02]
So let’s talk about your business. So the importance of words, I’m a kind of vocalised words and your sort of written word. Where do people screw up because I, it was interesting, I was looking at your website, and I liked the fact that you actually mentioned, but let’s talk about myself in the third person. And it was very chatty, very sort of informal kind of stuff. And I got a flavour of what you’re all about now, is that one of the mistakes that people make that they just go boring and professional, and they don’t put their own personality into it.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [20:36]
Yeah, I think that’s part of it, for sure. Like a lot of people who are coming into online business might have a corporate background, and the language is usually very buttoned up when it comes to corporate. So because I have a personal brand, like I am the face of my brand, and people work with me, because they feel like they relate to me, those things on my web, my website are very intentional, like making sure that people feel comfortable and relaxed, when they come to my page that they know I like to have fun, there’s a picture of me with a pin under my nose, like sitting on my lip. And I can’t tell you how many people have said they wanted to work with me because of that picture. So I feel like there is for a lot of people, when they start their online business, there is this evolution that they go through where they think they have to look really professional. And instead, like, I really recommend that they let their own personality out because of those are the things that people are going to remember about them, it’s the things that make them unique. And so yeah, that’s definitely a mistake that I see people making is just trying to be way too professional.

David Ralph [21:42]
Because when I launched Join Up Dots, one of the things I wanted to do was get away from that. And so if you ever come over to the website, there’s pictures of me laying down and just sort of just doing some strange things. And I remember a lot of people that had nothing to do with my business at all would criticise it. And I used to think, what’s it gonna do for you? You know, what’s it going to do with you? It feels right, it reflects my personality. And I think it builds a connection, from the podcast, to the website, to when people speak to me, normally, I think it adds a visual representation of what I do on the podcast. And that’s something that is so important, isn’t it to think about that almost stake, but you can run through your business, and I call it the emotional temperature of a business. But every interaction that somebody has with you reflects your personal morals and standards and the way you operate, I suppose.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [22:45]
Yeah, 100%. And I love that you caught on to that early on in your business, I wish more people did and it’s, you know, it’s okay to to like, kind of get your personality Sealegs. Yeah, in the beginning, you might just want to reveal a few things and then realise, you know, for me, it’s like, I watch for when people’s eyes light up. And that’s how I know what to write either for a client or for myself, the things that I say that get their attention, like, for example, I take four months off for the seventh year in a row, whenever I would share that I would notice like people’s eyes really light up and want to know more about that. So whenever you’re talking about your business, and you’re trying to figure out the things that you want to have on your website, watch how people react to the words that you’re saying and the things that you’re talking about and watch for when their eyes light up. Because those it’s like an old journalism trick. But it’s a great way to find out like, what is the most interesting parts of your brand? And what should you share with people because I know people get stuck. They’re like, Oh, why do I even begin this process? Talk about your business a lot. And watch how people react.

David Ralph [23:48]
The biggest thing that I have people react to is the fact that I don’t have a cell phone, or I don’t have any phone in my life. And it’s something I’ve always just had. But even the other day, I was in a hospital because I fell off my bike and I was having a problem with my shoulder. And the doctor said, Would you mind if I asked you a personal question? And I thought they were going to ask me something health related. And she said, How is it without a phone? How do you operate? And she was so intrigued by it, that I know that there is a business out there for getting people off their cell phones that the world wants to, but they kind of they don’t trust themselves to do it somehow. And I see that look in their eyes. You’re saying that they’re intrigued. They’re fascinated, and I’m actually almost reaching out for help.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [24:36]
Yeah, 100% And what I also love about it story, David is that they you’re telling a story, right? But also that could be a great email just telling the story of what happened if you’re willing to share it with your audience, but I find people are like I don’t have anything interesting to say like, I’m concerned that my story won’t resonate with people and I always say like some One of the most what seems like mundane topics are my most popular emails, for example, like, I send an email about what I did for one week off in my business and just tell people what I’ve been up to books that I’ve been reading think places that I went things that I did with my friends. And so we think we’re like, not necessarily interesting to people, but you would be surprised, like people love to see, you know, like, what can you hear, taste, touch and feel in your life? Those things are interesting to them.

David Ralph [25:28]
Yeah, I like I love having a nap in the afternoon. I become like an old person. And just sort of on the sofa, I just closed the door and have a little nap and stuff. And Matt, something else for people say, Oh, I wish I could do that. And I think to myself, actually, you can do anything you want. You just have to decide to do it and make those decisions. And if you want to take four months off, or only work three months, a year, you know, I know a guy who was on the show, but I think he works two months a year spread over one week a month. Does that make? Does that sound right? Eight Yeah, almost sort of, yeah, one week a month, but joined up. It’s about two months a year. And people think he’s mad. But he’s got a very successful business. And he has made the decision to make that happen. And it comes down to again, sage, doesn’t it have personal belief, not just in yourself. But in the acceptance of how the world is operating, you don’t have to do what everybody else is doing anymore.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [26:31]
100%. And I am so grateful that we have that flexibility. But also, again, like when I say that I take time off that alone, just hearing it gives other people permission or reminder, like you’ve built this incredible business, you can choose to create it the way that you want. It’s your canvas, you get to paint it however you want. And I think we sometimes forget that, like it’s easy to basically become your own worst boss after you already left. Maybe a company like Dave and I did where we didn’t have good bosses, we weren’t happy with her.

David Ralph [27:05]
She was a cow. She was an absolute cow, sage, my boss was I have to be, she wasn’t just a good boss or a bad boss, she was a cow.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [27:15]
I feel you on that. It’s a lot. And at the same time, like we leave that environment. And then we go create our own business. And sometimes we become our own worst boss. And so we have to remind ourselves like oh, right, this is up to me how I want to lead my business and what kind of environment I want to have for myself.

David Ralph [27:35]
So we touched on it already to a point but one of the things that people need to do is understand the the emotional temperature copywriting works by being a bridge to the soul somehow so that you can speak in a way that people connect with it. Let’s get away from the blanket approach that so many people do and I think I’ve got a blanket approach really, I was looking at my own site thinking, Yeah, I probably I’m not as niched down on as niche down the, what they call the Simpsons, the yellow people, okay, let’s start explaining this. And so that people out there can start looking at their own efforts and thinking how they can apply these strategies.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [28:18]
Yeah, I love sharing this with everyone. So as you know, there’s characters in the show and there’s four characters in particular, I’m going to walk you through right now. So that when you’re writing, let’s say a sales page or some emails, you could be writing Facebook ad copy like this. It could also convince your partner to walk the dog over text like however you want to use this

David Ralph [28:43]
system. I see some problem in your life. Did you open a wound bear somehow?

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [28:49]
I don’t have any pets. No, but I know for others, it might be opening up

David Ralph [28:55]
for you. Next time, he doesn’t take that dog out. I’m gonna say something on a podcast.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [29:01]
Hey, love it. Yeah, no, that’s not how I would go about it. But um, so the four characters there is Homer. He is the fun loving decision maker and I will go over how to write copy to appeal to the homers of the world. We have Marge, she is the deep connection decision maker. Lisa is the slower decision maker and then Bart is the fast decision maker. So when you are writing your sales page, for example, you for the homeless of the world like they are looking for fun, fun loving copy. They love music lyrics and puns and funny turn of phrases. I have a friend who’s a homer and she was looking at my sales page on my phone and she was scrolling through and I noticed like she would laugh a little at some funny lines and then she would keep going so it was what kept her engaged on the page and when to make her like read the whole page through. So that’s that’s The

David Ralph [30:00]
first time how would you know that this is your ideal client?

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [30:04]
This is a great question. I love this, David. So there’s these four buyer types, they typically exist in any community. There is exceptions to that there are times when you don’t have the homers of the world. And I’ll give you an example. So you might have be like a trainer for CEOs, right. And they are all more the BART like fast decision makers. And they may not care about the fun and funny things on your sales page. Because they want to make decisions instantly and quick, and I’ll tell you how to appeal to them for sure. But that is an important point here. Like for me, I have all four buyer types in my community. And most people will have all four buyer types, but there’s some communities that like leaned towards one of these than the other.

David Ralph [30:52]
Now, did you make the mistake of just writing blanket then before you do this, and obviously we’re going to keep on moving into the Simpsons. But when you’re sitting there thinking, no one’s opening my emails, no one’s engaging with me, there must be something that I’m missing here. You know,

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [31:09]
what I’ve noticed is like my copy was working for sure. But once you use this system, you’ll notice an increase in conversions, meaning like getting someone to either click the button or take the action in your email, or whatever it is, the call to action is you’ll notice people will be bought into what you’re doing more and take more actions than they ever had, like your open rates will go up, your click through rates will go up. So that’s why the system is so important. It’s like you can take your existing copy and optimise it better to get more of the results that you want.

David Ralph [31:41]
Because every email I send out, I have a video attached. With me, I record a video and I embed it into the email and my open rates about 88%. And that’s apparently quite high. I didn’t think that was quite high. I just thought it was what it was. But I can see now because there’s curiosity that leads people to opening it. And then people are either visual, or you know, or they really I can’t think what I want is. And I’m tailoring my sort of emails to all learning styles, I suppose.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [32:18]
Yeah, 100%. And that is a great point. And so actually, the next person I was going to talk about is Marge, she’s a deep connection decision maker. And she loves video. And she’ll take the time to watch a video because she’s a very visual person. So when she comes on a sales page, for example, she there’s a couple of things she’s looking for, like strong branded visual imagery, like really beautiful photos of you definitely help. But also a section of the sales page that has your story, because the margin is the deep connection decision makers of the world. They really love feeling connected to you through story. So the more you share those things, the more they’ll be interested in consuming your content and also feeling more deeply connected to you. And the cool thing about the margins of the world is like let’s say you’re going to host a live event. And you do it like buy one, bring a friend for a discounted price or something like buy a ticket and bring a friend for a special price. The margins of the world will sell your things for you because they love bringing all their friends to whatever it is you’re offering. So anytime you’re like bring a friend with you, they will always be the one who like get three friends to come with them and experience the thing because they’d love to share whatever they’re buying.

David Ralph [33:36]
And so once again, does that deviate from the sort of integrity of your communication? Because they’re not thinking about what type of bias they’re bringing? Or does that not matter?

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [33:49]
They’re not really thinking about that aspect of it. It’s just that they’d like to create an experience things in community. So that’s the thing that that gets them excited about the offer.

David Ralph [34:01]
Now, let’s go with the other one. What was the other one? Lisa? Do you see I’m struggling? I’m struggling here. So we’ve Lisa and she’s the sort of sensible girl one, isn’t she?

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [34:13]
Yes, she is the detail oriented decision maker. So if she’s reading an email, let’s say you’re announcing a product or on your sales page, she’s the type who like people will ask me do I really need a long sales page? And I’m like, yes, for the leases of the world. She’s the types have read the entire page top to bottom. They like as decision makers like they can’t stop themselves they love to consume the whole thing. And so also for the leases of the world like having an email or a sales page make sure you have the FAQ like the frequently asked questions about your product. Because for Lisa’s like when they look at things, they’re like, Is this for me? Is this for me? Is this for me? That’s the question they’re asking in their head over and over again. And so With like an FAQ section to your sales page, she’ll know it’s for her because she’ll see her questions answered. I will say, though, like leases tend to steal, after they read whatever your offer is, send you an additional email and ask you more questions. Yeah. And I used to think like, as a copywriter, like I did such a good job with the sales page, like, Why do you have more questions, but now I realise, oh, this is the beginning of a buying, like how she makes buying decisions. And this is beginning of a sales conversation for her. So I love when I get questions now. And I will copy and paste them, I’ll take them from that email from the leases of the world and just stick it on the sales page for the next Lisa,

David Ralph [35:37]
this is really interesting news because I looked at one year long form sort of sales letters. And I thought, Oh, I can’t be bothered to read all that. And I kind of just whizzed down, it scanned it. So I’m obviously not Elisa time.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [35:51]
Yeah, yeah. And actually, that parlays perfectly into the type that you are, which is the parts of the world. They are the fast decision makers that I mentioned earlier, their scanners for sure, they just read headlines. They’re also the type who you need to give them the button right at the top of the page often like will hide the call to action further down in an email or further down on the sales page. And for the parts of the world like they already know, it’s very good decision that they want to purchase something and or make the call to action that you’ve put there for them. So put it right at the top of the page, don’t make them scroll. And also for your emails. Like if you’re announcing a new product, let’s say don’t put the link further down in the email have multiple links in the email at the top near the middle at the bottom. Because for those Bart’s they just want to click and move on like they’ve they’re very much like they’ve made their decision. So do you identify with that, David, now that I’ve

David Ralph [36:49]
shared? Yeah, I do. I very much do. And I am 100% of Bart Simpson. I scan like a lunatic. I speed read books. I’m very much just give me the gist. That’s all I need. I don’t, I don’t need to need know the details. I heard this the other day. And somebody was saying, What was he saying? Oh, yeah, there’s mice and the Eagles. And the mice like to be down in the weeds getting the detail, and the eagle just needs to be at the top. And I’m very much like an eagle with a rocket pack strapped to his back. So I don’t even care what I’m seeing. Just give it to me.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [37:30]
It’s so good. And so those earlier I was talking about like the CEOs of the world, like they’re the born leaders, typically, and the fast decision makers. And so like, if you want a community of just fast decision makers, and you just want to train like CEOs, for example, or executive C suites and that type of thing, then you may not want to attract the leases into your community. So you may not want to have all those details when it comes to an offer. And if the leases are asking you a lot of questions, you’ll know like, Oh, they’re not meant to be in this community, because I just want the faster decision makers. So these types of things really help you discern like who’s in your audience based on how they interact with you. And then it also helps in your sales process. So like, it’s funny with the homers of the world like those fun loving decision makers. They’ll typically wait till the very end of a promotion to buy. And they’ll be like, Oh, I don’t know what I’m getting into. But I want to purchase this. And I’m like, Really, I sent you like 20 emails in it. ginormous long sales feed, and you’re still not sure what you’re getting into. Yeah, I love that. Because they’re so fun. Once they’re in your community, right? Like, they’ll show up to the Zoom call for your community, they might be late, but they’re so fun once they get there.

David Ralph [38:39]
I used to fall out with the HR ladies of the world. And now I can see that they were all leases. And I was always Oh, don’t worry about it. Let’s just do it. And they used to say know that there’s rules and regulations, we need to stick to these beings. And I use I’ll come on, nobody will know we just do it. And so yeah, so that this sort of laces of the world thought into certain jobs that fit them as well.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [39:04]
100%. And so like when you have a team, you want to be cognizant of how you hire people, for sure. Because you need those parts of the world. Like they’ll generate ideas so fast or Quick, go go go. And then you need the leases to catch all the ideas and make sure that they’re implemented properly and that everything happens that was meant to happen for that particular thing. And then like the marches are wonderful, those deep connection decision makers, making sure that everybody feels seen and heard and taken care of like they want to get lemonade for you. If you’ve just shown up in the room. We’re like, making sure you feel welcome. So I found that having a community and like I mentioned the homeowners are like the fun ones like live events, they bring the energy they’re so fun to be around. I found that having like a well rounded community. Everybody gets to bring their strengths to it and every it’s interesting like every decision maker we all have our strengths we all have our way witnesses but we feel fill in for each other. And that’s when it gets really exciting.

David Ralph [40:04]
Now, can you have somebody that dependent on their moods? And I’ll be honest, I’ve got a load of ladies in my house. And I think they could be all of these characters within minutes of each other? Or are people just one or the other?

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [40:20]
I think that we definitely have to adapt our, like our decision making based on a few different things. For one, the price point might change how you decide to buy something. So if something’s $37, like I can be very smart about it. But if something’s $3,000, I might be much more of a Lisa and ask a lot of questions before I buy. So I think price point changes how we interact with things. But I also think like who’s in the room and how you are relating to everybody in the room will also change. So for me, I identify much more of like, as a Lisa detailed green, like decision oriented maker, if you know, disk, that’s why I’m kind of referring to colour, but I found like, for me, that’s how I like to make decisions. However, if I’m running a live event, and I did like an event in Niagara Falls with 100 people, I had to be very read like very much the BART and the Homer like it had to be fast decisions, entertaining, fun loving, you know, all those things. So I think we can definitely change how we present ourselves based on what room were in who’s around us what the price point is, like those things. So we have all four decision makers in US 100%. It’s just we lead with one more than the other typically

David Ralph [41:40]
go Bart, that’s what I’m saying. Go Bart, he is he’s gonna lead the way. So what is the biggest sort of bit of advice we could give to people? Obviously, we could we could do a 15 hour podcast episode on copywriting with the nuances of it. But what’s the sort of big thing that you could say for a newbie to start thinking about in a slightly different way? Yeah. So

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [42:05]
if you’re new to copywriting, I would definitely get some training in it. Because there’s so much wonderful, like ways to learn about this. You know, I mentioned that book. Earlier, the welfare writer by Peter barman, I have a membership where I teach this more in depth, like, find some training, practice at it, give yourself permission to not be good at it first. Because it’s a whole new world, like it’s funny, a lot of writers hire me, right. But they might be ghost writers for books, or they might be writers for doing media or something else. So what I found is there’s a large spectrum of writers out there, but writing for marketing is very specific. And when you start to learn specifically this trade, it will change everything for the way that you show up in your business, but also, as I mentioned in your personal life and understanding how people are persuaded to make decisions, but also the biggest thing for me, and the reason why I teach this system around writing is with The Simpsons policy, and all of that is to understand how people show up. And it like, the thing for me that changed was when I realised Oh, like I’m Elisa, I’m always going to be on time, if not early. That’s my personality, but the homeruns of the world are always going to be late. But allow me to release any judgement around the way people make their buying decisions to just understand, like, we are all different and how we make decisions and so that you can meet people where they’re at is just, I think it’s such a great way to show up in your business and love up on people and be like, oh, this person needs to more deeply connect with me before they make a decision. Right. So those types of things, I think will make all the difference as you’re stepping into this, this new world of online business and learning how to write

David Ralph [44:08]
Yeah, and there’s a lot to learn there is a lot to learn. And when you leap like like sage did you discover there’s a hell of a lot to learn.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [44:19]
Yeah, and I’m a fan of like not writing from scratch, right? Like, often people are intimidated by a blank document and that’s why I have coffee templates for people when they are getting started in their online business because you we think that we need to create from scratch like you know, if you were going to redo your kitchen, let’s say and like all the cupboards, you’re just gonna rip all of them out right?

David Ralph [44:44]
To my wife.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [44:48]
But what if instead, you could just put fresh paint on the covers and not have to rebuild the entire thing. That’s how I think about copyright. Like if you can get started from a template instead of having to start from scratch, it’s so much easier.

David Ralph [45:01]
Yeah, absolutely. And I won’t play back to my wife because she wants all new cupboards, she wants everything she wants it all stripped out. And I keep saying to her, yeah, but how are we going to live without a kitchen? You know, how are we going to live? And she says, Oh, were we out for three weeks. But um, she get away, she always gets away? Well, this is the part of the show that we’ve been building up to. And this is the part that we called a sermon on the mic when we send you back in time to have a one on one with your younger self. And if you could speak to the young sage, what advice would you like to give her? Well, we’re going to find out because I’m gonna play the theme. And when it fades, it’s your time to talk. This is the Sermon on the mic.

Unknown Speaker [45:42]
Here we go. With the best bit of the show, the Sermon on the mind, the sermon on

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [46:00]
Hey, younger sage, well done on how far you have gotten. And just remember that no matter what you’re doing to have fun with it, it really is nothing needs to be taken too seriously. You can have a good time, with whatever you choose to do. And anything that you do choose to do. It’s just leading to the next greater thing. And there are no missteps. It’s just continuing to move forward and believing in what you were doing.

David Ralph [46:34]
And what age sage were you talking to?

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [46:38]
I think my 20 year old self for sure.

David Ralph [46:41]
And that’s the one that would have sat down and listened or would she have said what? What do you know, old older sage?

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [46:48]
I think she would have listened because I think it’s such a that time in your life. Like you’re so unsure about everything and you’re like, you know, kind of just experimenting in all areas of your life. So I think she would have listened to the advice.

David Ralph [47:02]
Yeah, she should do because you’ve ended up on Join Up Dots so our good can learn. So sage, what is the number one best way that our audience can connect with?

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [47:12]
Oh, thank you so much, David, I really appreciate the opportunity to share with your audience, thank you for opening up your circle to me. And if you want to stay connected, I have a gift for your audience that I would love to share. If they go to Sage players.com/join up dots, you can get my triple email open rates template. So if you started an online business and you have an email list, and you’re not sure what to say to them, this is three emails that you can copy paste and personalise. It will get you clear on what to say to them, but also set you up to make an offer to your list. And if you have had an email list for a while, and you have never scrubbed your subscribers, meaning gotten rid of unengaged people, these three emails will make it really easy for you to go through. Scrub your list and that way your open rates will go up and you know that the people who are hearing from you are the ones that you know, want to hear from you.

David Ralph [48:07]
Yeah, I actually deleted 15,000 emails, due to due to the fact that I looked at it one day, and I don’t know who they are what they are, it was just like one big bucket. And I thought why I need to get these into segments and groups. So I know that this person is interested in this and this person is interested in that. And then I could start talking the language. But in the early days, it was just just get them and I didn’t know what to do with them.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [48:34]
Yeah, and that’s I mean, you mentioned you have an 88% open rate and I’m not surprised like well done on getting your list cleaned up like that. It’s such it feels so good.

David Ralph [48:44]
Hey does, I’m proud of myself sage, I am proud of myself. And I’m proud of you as well. So, sage, thank you so much for spending time with us today joining up those dots and please come back again when you got more dots to join up because I do believe that by joining up those dots and connecting our paths is always the best way to build our futures. Sage pilaris thank you so much.

The Simpsons Copywriter Sage Polaris [49:06]
Such a pleasure David Thank you.

David Ralph [49:11]
So copywriting getting the emotional content right for the individual that’s reading so are you Elisa, your bar your Homer? Are you a march, I’m definitely bar I really am and it really sort of hit home through that. So it’s a it’s a good way if you’ve got a business already, go back and look at your content. And if you’re struggling with it, of course go over to Sage pilaris.com forward slash Join Up Dots get the freebie and connect with her and I’m sure she’ll be able to help you out in any way she can. Until next time, my friends thank you so much for listening to this episode of Join Up Dots. Thank you for everyone who’s sharing these shows with other people. And thank you for everybody who are building businesses changing their mindset and moving on towards the dream because it’s bear waiting for you. Until next time I will see you again. Look after yourselves. Cheers. See ya.

Outro [50:03]
That’s the end of Join Up Dots. You’ve heard the conversation. Now it’s time for you to start taking massive action. Create your future create your life. Easy only you live God. We’ll be back again real soon. Join Up Dots during the gods Join Up Dots during the gods. John Join Up Dots