Tom Trush Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast
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Introducing Tom Trush
Tom Trush is today’s guest joining us on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots podcast interview.
He is a a man who could possibly scratch his head a few times if asked “How did you get to where you are today?”
He didn’t have a fixed path from an early age that’s for sure.
In fact he didn’t even know that his chosen occupation was a possibility.
But now Tom finds himself as the go to man for “Direct Response Copy writing”, and don’t worry I don’t know what that is either…..but we will soon.
He states that it was a game of baseball, but not actually getting on the pitch, and working in a library that started the path that he followed into adulthood.
And that is a hard one to join up the dots with in any shape or form.
How The Dots Joined Up For Tom
But after working in a library as a teenager, Mr Trush picked up two books that quite simply changed his life.
“The Well-Fed Writer” and “The Millionaire Next Door” pricked his interest to such a degree, that he literally wrote the next chapters of his life there and then.
By studying the subject, and developing his skills, it has know taken him all the way back to the library, joining the authors of those two books with three of his own
He is the author of The “You” Effect: How to Transform Ego- Based Marketing Into Captivating Messages That Create Customers, and The Reluctant Writer’s Guide to Creating Powerful Marketing Materials: 61 Easy Ideas to Attract Prospects and Get More Customers.
And if that isn’t enough he is working on his third book, Escape the Expected: The Secret Psychology of Selling to Today’s Skeptical Consumers, which will will be released in late 2014.
Well let’s bring onto the show to start joining up dots, as we discuss the words of Steve Jobs with the one and only Mr Tom Trush
During the show we discussed such weighty topics with Tom such as:
How you should separate yourself from the masses to create more focus on your products!
How you must build value and relationship into every word or image you present to your customer!
When you have critics in your life then you know you’re doing something right!
If you want to have something that you have never had before, then you have to do something you’ve never done!
How To Connect With Tom Trush
Return To The Top Of Tom Trush
Or if you prefer just pop over to our podcast archive for thousands of amazing episodes to choose from.
Audio Transcription Of Tom Trush Interview
David Ralph [0:00]
Hello, everybody out there in internet land. How are you doing today? Hope you’re good. I’m just before we go into today’s show, which is Episode 17, I had a moment of clarity this morning. And I have been getting loads of emails and sort of comments from people. And it’s been amazing. It really has been amazing, the feedback that I’m getting about the show, and I suddenly thought, wouldn’t it be amazing to start bringing the listeners in to the show and bringing you in live. So I’m thinking about how to do this, but we might actually start doing additional programmes, which are listener base. So we will be discussing your emails or getting you on live and, and seeing the action that you’ve taken, hopefully being inspired by the shows to make momentum in your life and create success all around you. So I’m going to keep you informed of that. But remember, Episode 17 is when you first heard that, but of course, today we have got a guest and he’s a guest waiting patiently on the other end of the Skype call. And I suppose he’s a man who could possibly scratch his head a few times, if asked, How did you get to where you are today? He didn’t have a fixed path from an early age, that’s for sure. In fact, he didn’t even know that he’s chosen occupation was a possibility. But now he finds himself as the go to man for direct response copywriting. And don’t worry, I don’t know what it is either. But we will. He states that he was a game of baseball but not actually getting on the pitch and working in a library that started the path that he followed into adulthood. And that’s that’s really a hard one to join up the dots with in any shape or form libraries baseball, no gonna have to ask him. But after working in the library as a teenager, he picked up two books that quite simply changed his life. The well fed writer and the Millionaire Next Door. Both pricked his interest to such a degree. But he literally wrote the next chapters of his life of bear and Ben, by studying the subject and developing the skills, it has now taken him all the way back to the library, joining the Office of those two books with creative his own. He’s the author of the you affect how to transform ego based marketing into captivating messages that create customers. And that’s not easy to say. And the reluctant writers guide to creating powerful marketing materials 61 easy ideas to attract prospects and get more customers. And if that isn’t enough, he’s working on his third book escape big expected the secret psychology of selling to today’s sceptical consumers, which I think is even harder to say than the first one, which will be released in late 2014. So let’s bring on to the show the man that really has the right stuff, the one and only Mr. Tom Trush. How are you today, Tom?
Tom Trush [3:18]
Doing great, David, thanks a lot. I appreciate you having me on. It’s an honour.
David Ralph [3:22]
Now it’s always an honour to have us here. And as we were talking in the pre record, I actually contacted you a long way back in about October time. So you’ve been sitting now on the other end of the Skype call for a long time waiting to start. So hopefully it’s a relief to finally finally feel free and liberated in in conversation.
Tom Trush [3:42]
Oh, yes. I’m looking forward to it. It’s gonna be fun.
David Ralph [3:44]
So where is life for you? You are based in Arizona, I believe.
Tom Trush [3:49]
Yeah, that’s correct. Yep. I live in Arizona. I’ve been here. Well, it’s been almost about 20 years originally grew up in in Michigan. And came I’m out here because had some family out here and visit them on some vacations. And I have a twin brother and both my my twin brother and I we both said, and we first came out to Arizona and I think was like seventh grade. We said, Man, that’s where we’re going to go to college. And so from that point, I we kind of set that goal and we attended. Both of us attended a community college back in Michigan, he had an academic scholarship, and I had a basketball scholarship. So we couldn’t pass those those up. So we spent two years in Michigan going to school and then made it our goal that you know, like I said, to transfer out here and go to ASU and we both went, he has since left the state and lives in Cincinnati, but I have remained. So yeah,
David Ralph [4:44]
well, we’re bounce in Arizona, and we’re not going to stalk you so don’t don’t give a dressing messed up but vaguely. I’m in Phoenix, Downtown Phoenix. I got really drunk in Phoenix one night, I have to say
Tom Trush [4:57]
there’s a few spots to do that.
David Ralph [4:58]
I’m Tom Vega. I’m not gonna sort of launch into dirty laundry. But I seem to remember getting really drunk in Phoenix and then ending up in a place called Yuma. Is that near nearby?
Tom Trush [5:11]
Yeah, that’s a couple hours away. Yeah. I mean, there’s not a whole lot in Yuma. Interesting that you ended up out there.
David Ralph [5:18]
Yeah. Well, as I say, to my mind, I was so drunk, I have no sense of humour, which is the closest thing to a joke that I could create out of a word. But it wasn’t bad. Was it?
Tom Trush [5:30]
No, no that that that actually, that’s pretty creative. I like that one.
David Ralph [5:33]
So when you’re not being a direct response copywriter? What takes up your time?
Tom Trush [5:40]
Well, you know, I’m a big fan of sports. And I have a couple of kids, I have a eight year old daughter and a six year old son. And so my wife and I both passed our love for sports. I know those kids into our kids. And so a lot of time is spent at their practices at their games. I also still like to participate in some sports myself, probably the main thing that I do now, I love distance running. And so every day, well, pretty much every day probably you all sometimes take one day off a week, take a Sunday off, but pretty much every day I’m out running and on the weekends, you know, like to run a little bit longer and and how
David Ralph [6:19]
can we throw in a marathon half miles distance on it on a daily basis.
Tom Trush [6:24]
On a daily basis, I mean, usually about three, four miles during the week, and then start getting into double digit miles on the on the weekends. And, in fact working up in about well, it’s about three weeks now, actually to going back to the Grand Canyon, and doing a rim to rim to rim, run, hike. I mean, it’s a lot of hiking, but there is some running involved. And that’s a, we did it last year. It’s not like a race or anything. It’s just a couple guys. And I we go out there and just see how fast we can do it in and but you’re made a slight wrong turn. So it turned out to be about 47 miles. And we did it in one day. So it’s about a little over 19 hours. So we’re going back this year to see what we can do and do a little bit quicker. That is just madness
David Ralph [7:15]
is total madness. I can’t understand doing those kind of things, you know, credit to you. I’m kind of genetically lazy. I can’t remember. Well, I don’t think I’ve ever been in a gym in my life. And I think to myself, if I need to run anywhere, just get in a car. I don’t see the point.
Tom Trush [7:35]
Yeah, only if someone’s chasing up after run, right.
David Ralph [7:38]
Yeah, that’s right. That’s absolutely right. So, in the introduction, I was saying to you that you are a classic example of somebody that really needs to look back and join up those dots. Because you didn’t have a fixed path from an early age. Can you can you remember what you wanted to be when you were when you were young Tom?
Tom Trush [7:58]
Yeah, I mean, I think like a lot of kids growing up, I looked at professional athletes. And I thought, you know, especially basketball players, and I thought, Man, I’m going to play in the NBA. That’s what I want to do. And so that was that was one of the one of my thoughts. And I mean, honestly, it didn’t take too long to realise that probably wasn’t going to pan out. And so then I also had an interest in of all things, meteorology. You know, I liked weather and I still like weather to this day and how, how weather you’ll forms. You know, what sparked the interest is? I was at an amusement park. It was in Ohio, it’s called Cedar Point. I don’t know if you heard of it. No, I haven’t. But it’s your typical amusement park, lots of roller coasters and stuff. And it’s on a lake Lake area, big lake. And it was like fourth grade, we’re waiting to go on this roller coaster called the Gemini. And we could see that some storms were coming in. And they weren’t looking really good. I mean, it looked pretty dark, kind of menacing. But we had just gotten to the park and we thought, Man, we’re going to get on this, we got it. You know, you gotta at least get one right. And before this rain comes. And all of a sudden, I can still picture it. I remember seeing people’s heads all turn at once. And they start pointing out over the lake and out over the lake was the formation of your wood, since it was over the water a water spout, but essentially, it was a tornado for me. And I thought oh my goodness, you know, I remember just being hysterical and, and thinking oh my gosh, you’re going to get nailed by this tornado. And, of course, we ended up not going on the roller coaster and then going off to dinner because things that subsided. But from that moment on it really I was really interested in in weather and I thought maybe a tornado chase or something would be pretty cool. So I guess those are the two things either a professional athlete or chasing tornadoes.
David Ralph [9:51]
He’s ironic that you have a fascination with weather and you live in a place that has no weather. Is it sunny? Every day?
Tom Trush [9:59]
Yeah, I mean, if you’re your weather person here in Arizona, your Jobs pretty easy. I mean, you’re not getting much sun. And occasionally in the summer, when monsoon season hits, you get a little bit of action with some rain and some violent thunderstorms. But that’s still pretty rare.
David Ralph [10:14]
So you like weather and you like basketball? So there’s there’s not really any way to mix those two up together. So, so where did you sort of move through when when did direct response copywriting come into your life? And as opposed to the right question. First of all, to phrase it is, what is it? First of all?
Tom Trush [10:33]
Well, direct response copywriting is, I mean, basically, if to put it real simple, is I fix broken marketing materials. So when a company, you know, the company is doing marketing, whether it’s online, whether it’s writing, whether it’s advertising, basically, they’re looking to get some kind of a response. And so what I do is write marketing materials to get people to respond to them. And and sometimes it’s to buy something. Other times, you know, many times, especially on more expensive items, it’s just to start developing a relationship. You know, a lot of my basis for for copywriting is based on on trust and in establishing relationships with prospects before you ask them to buy something. So, I mean, essentially, it’s looking at marketing materials and figure out ways through the text to get people to respond to them. That’s what copywriting is. So it’s just warming believes up.
David Ralph [11:25]
In written Well, yeah,
Tom Trush [11:27]
well, and attracting leads as well, and then eventually getting them to convert into sales.
David Ralph [11:33]
So is that a sort of a niche market? Or is it just something that is worldwide? But I’ve never really heard of it?
Tom Trush [11:42]
Oh, yeah. I mean, it’s definitely worldwide. I mean, there are different types of copywriters. I mean, basically, it’s putting, you know, you’re putting words on the paper or words on to a website. And so I mean, there’s lots of people that do it, of course, you know, there are little things that, you know, I consider that make me a little a bit different, like any business, you know, you have your things that make you unique.
David Ralph [12:04]
And so what makes Tom trust unique in the direct response, copywriting boring?
Tom Trush [12:11]
Well, a lot, a lot of what I do is based on education, and instead of trying to pitch prospects, through my marketing, I like to educate them give them information that they wouldn’t necessarily know about their product or service, so that it doesn’t come across as you just aggressively trying to get them to buy something. And, you know, a lot of times and we had, there’s certain industries where we have this perception that anybody that’s trying to sell that we don’t trust them, you know, car salesman, you know, that kind of thing, where you I like to flip that around and think, Okay, what information can I give you that would make this marketing piece so valuable, that you would cringe if you had to throw it away, or if you lost it. So I look at a piece of paper, a blank piece of paper, almost like an artist would yo an artist, a blank canvas is worth nothing until an artist starts putting paint on it or, you know, draws on it creates some type of image that then makes that Canvas valuable. Whereas I look at a piece of paper and I think about what can I put on this piece of paper that would make it so valuable that a prospect would not want to throw it away, that they would actually pay money to receive it. So I mean, I think that’s one of the things that makes me different in that I’m not looking to just put words on paper for the sake of putting words on paper, and just to put a message out there and get your name out there your logo, I’m looking to put extreme value on paper. So people actually look forward to getting your marketing or look forward to seeing your advertising because the reality is, especially when it comes to ads, people don’t look forward to reading ads many times. I mean, we know what an ad looks like in a newspaper, in a magazine, whatever it is, and usually we’re skipping those because we want to read the editorial. And so I want to make it you know, my goal is to make marketing so valuable. People want to read it that they feel like after they get done with a piece that they receive some type of value.
David Ralph [14:05]
I find you I’m listening to you with fascination bear, because I kind of think this man must be skin, because how does he do that? You know that that sounds such a difficult job to make the things that come through our door on a daily basis that the you know, in on websites and stuff that we actually want to keep them that seems almost, you know, an impossible job.
Tom Trush [14:28]
Yeah, but I mean, the reality is, most marketing out there is not focused on that people aren’t interested in because there’s no focus on them. Most marketing focuses on a company and not on a prospect. But when you focus on a prospect, you give them something of value, well, then your marketing takes another it takes another place in their mind. So I mean, it’s the reality is the best marketing often doesn’t look like marketing, you know, the advertising often doesn’t look like advertising. And so you don’t want people to look at yourself, or look at your promotion, as just as as a pitch, you want them to look at looking at as a way that they’re getting value from it that, you know, when they read it. They learned something new. That’s why I said the beginning I like to focus on education, I think about when I’m dealing with a company, you know, I asked about the prospects, what are the prospects? What’s their biggest problem that they’re experiencing? And then how can we use your marketing to then deliver some solutions for them? So then you’re coming across as a helpful resource and not just somebody looking to pitch products and services?
David Ralph [15:38]
Have you seen the TED Talks from a chap called Simon synetic? Have you seen and it’s called something like, the reason why or something like that, you can look it up Simon Simon, s i n ek, but he talks about the apple marketing, and how they go from a different point of view, they actually go from their their beliefs and why they make computers, right to the very beta of Do you want to buy a computer. And it’s a fascinating 15 or 16 minute presentation, where he sort of says that, basically Apple have created brand loyalty, and I’m not on an apple right here, I had an interview with a chat the other day, and I put my hand up and said, You know, I had nothing apple in my life at all in any shape other than a couple of them in my fridge. But he didn’t like the fact that Apple had created a kind of cult, he said a closed environment, by provide quality product, but they have incredible brand loyalty. Now, Simon Sonic on the other side, he queries the fact that they have created a brand loyalty, because they do everything in reverse order to everything that everybody else does. Have you seen that at all?
Tom Trush [16:54]
Yes, I have. Yep. I know. I know what talk you’re talking about. Yeah.
David Ralph [16:58]
Is that true? Is that the way that it should be done?
Tom Trush [17:03]
I mean, I think so. And if anything, especially when it comes to, to marketing and promotion, I think you have to look at what everybody else is doing. And then take the contrary and approach, you know, do the exact opposite. I mean, marketing is all about attracting attention. And if you’re doing what everybody else is, then you just drown in a CFC, a sea of sameness. I mean it, it’s, it’s more like, you know, you you’re doing something but then everybody else is doing the same thing. They’re saying the same things, they had the same messages. But when you do something different, that’s what’s going to attract attention. So, you know, I think it’s I mean, Apple is always a, you know, a company that people look to for inspiration in the in the marketing world, because they have such a loyal following. And so people try to dissect that and see what they’re doing. And obviously, they’re doing a great job. I mean, they’re the great thing about them is their customers are advocates for that company. And I mean, it’s a beautiful place to be and when your customers or your clients are promoting your products and services for you. I mean, it’s it’s, it’s a very envious position
David Ralph [18:15]
to be in. I hope that Join Up Dots will get that way. When Wouldn’t it be good? If people are saying,
Unknown Speaker [18:21]
David Ralph [18:22]
yeah. Have you heard of this? Have you heard this? Let’s get on. Let’s go back to that Tom trash episode. God, he’s a good looking guy, you can just look at the screen while you’re listening to it. You know, you’ll see that there’s very few images of myself on the website, I put all the the older all the guests at forefront, because you do have the division that I don’t actually have. To be humble. Don’t be humble. pick yourself up, Tom. You’re, you’re good looking chap.
Tom Trush [18:52]
I tend to fall in the humble, introverted side. So
David Ralph [18:57]
I’ll let that go on. let that go. But so you fixed path. Okay, so we talked about what direct response copywriting is. But when we first contacted each other, you actually gave me a nice little storey about a game of baseball. But actually, you can look back and it was the moment but kind of flipped your life on its head. Really?
Unknown Speaker [19:20]
David Ralph [19:22]
How did that work? Because I can’t quite grasp that. So I’m all ears to just throw the mic over to you. And let’s listen to this game of baseball. How was that so fundamental to you creating the career that that you’ve got now?
Tom Trush [19:36]
Well, I’ll tell you, you know, I’ll just be real honest with you, right from the start here. This is a storey that I don’t I, I’ve, I’ve shared with my kids. And it’s in it, and that’s about it. But I think I look back and it’s been so critical in my life, because of the lessons that I learned and I hate, you know, cliche sounding things. And I think this kind of could go to that cliche at all things happen for a reason. But okay, this was back in high school. And as I mentioned before, I knew I love sports very much into sports, especially growing up. And one of those sports was baseball. And I you know, I did pretty well, you know, did little league and I played Yeah, I had some success, some All Star games, that kind of stuff. And so I thought I was pretty good. But then High School came around. And, of course, with high school comes trying out for team so I can literally, you’re kind of just placed on team, there’s no tryouts. But in high school, you have to try out. And I was pretty confident about making the team. But what happened, we started having these tryouts and having practices. And I remember since it was Michigan, started the practices in the gym, because it’s still too cold. And there’s snow and there’s mud on the ground. So we weren’t playing outside. And it became quite clear during these, these tryouts that I was not doing well at all. I mean, I was, I was doing stuff that I couldn’t believe I was doing. I mean, I wasn’t catching the ball, I wasn’t hitting the ball, I was doing nothing that I had done before. And I can remember to this day, it was like three consecutive days of trials. And I can remember thinking to myself, What is going on? You know, I know I can do this. And I’m just not doing anything that I’m capable of. I’m not showing any of my abilities. And it’s like I had, I had no ability to show what I could do. It’s like everything had left me. And I absolutely bombed those tryouts. And as a result, I didn’t make the team. And from there I you know, of course, I didn’t even try out again, because I remember, I mean, I was absolutely crushed. I go, you know, I grew up, you know, being a, you know, a pretty good baseball player. And then, you know, it’s embarrassing for me, everyone. I mean, I was kind of known as you know, that I played baseball. So I think people expected, you know, okay, beyond the high school team, but I wasn’t because I did not make the team I you know, I bombed those trials. But then right afterwards, it was like, after I didn’t make the team, you know, I was down. I mean it. I mean, back then. I mean, it was like one of the biggest things in my life. I couldn’t believe it. depressed, but it was like two days later, I’m sitting on it on the steps in the school with a friend and the track coach comes up to me. And he, he says, Hey, you know, I understand you didn’t make the team. But let me tell you, I could really use you out on the track team. Now up to that point. I had never even thought about track. But, you know, because everything was focused on baseball, baseball is going to be on the baseball team. It wasn’t it was a given. But then I decided, Well, yeah, I mean, okay, well, I’ll go out for track. And like I said, Here at the beginning, you know, now To this day, I still run, you know, I run a lot. track was one of the things I then want to track and had some success and track to where like, sophomore year, I was, like, second in the conference in the high jump. And, you know, I did hurdles and I had a great time, I love track. And as it worked out, my twin brother, he was on the baseball team. And oftentimes, when we did track meets the away meets were often where baseball was having their away games as well. So, you know, it was still you know, I got to see some of the baseball but still participated in track. And I look back, yo, why this storey is so powerful to me, is, like I said, I remember thinking, What is going on? Why am I not showing what I can do. And this is absolutely crushing to me that I can’t show my abilities, and show people what I actually can get done. But then
going into track was the positive that came out of it. And it’s still something that I do today. And there’s been a couple of different instances in my life where this same storey has played out twice that I can think of that I’ve had that same thought what is going on at this moment, to make it so that I showing my true ability, there’s something bigger, you know, there’s something else that’s happening to me right now. And at the time, it seems like absolute disaster, it you know, nothing could be worse, but then something ends up coming out of it as a result. That’s positive. And that pushes me into a new direction in life. And it’s hard to explain. But like I said, it’s happened now It started with the baseball situation has happened now three times where I’ve been in situations where in my mind, the same thought is gone through what is going on in this situation. I know I could do better. Why aren’t my abilities coming out at this time? There’s got to be a reason.
David Ralph [24:40]
So do you have that inbuilt faith that things are going to turn out? right for you now? Because oppose?
Tom Trush [24:50]
I do. However, in these instances when this these situations have come up? I haven’t. You know, it seems like the absolute worst thing that can happen. You can’t even look beyond those days. Because you’re like, what is going to go on from here? What can I do from here? You don’t see it? And I guess I guess, you know, having like I said, having having it three times now to me in different situations, I should start thinking, you know, having some faith. But for me, it’s just that I can’t get over that thought of, you know, what the hell is happening? Why is this happening to me right now I I’ve prepared I can do better? Why aren’t my abilities coming on at this moment?
David Ralph [25:30]
Do you think subconsciously you’re holding yourself back for some reason? Did you think there’s you know, it? Could it be that you want something so badly that you’re actually sabotaging yourself somehow?
Tom Trush [25:45]
Yeah, that that’s a definite possibility. I think, for me, yeah, I touched on I am pretty introverted, introverted. And in some cases, if, you know, again, being very, very honest, there are times where, you know, I feel prepared for stuff ready to achieve something. But then I start having thoughts like, is this right for me? Do I really deserve this? You know, that kind of stuff? And I think that’s very typical with people. You know, especially in a in a business setting as well, you know, am I so you kind of sometimes hold yourself back? Because you don’t know if you’re quite ready or your you quite deserve? What you should be getting? Yeah, no, absolutely makes
David Ralph [26:25]
no, it makes total sense. I’ve had the same conversations in numerous episodes, both from my own point of view, and to the to the guests as well. And most of the people I’ve interviewed have come from an area of transition and struggle, where they’ve been working 18 1900 hours a week, for for a pittance. And knowing that they can do something so much better, but not really knowing their path. And when they do actually get to that point where they are seeing great success. Obviously, they’re getting the money that comes the scene that sort of balances up to the success. And a lot of them kind of thing, hang on, I shouldn’t be earning this much money, because I’m not working as hard. As I was previously, this is wrong. And there’s a kind of guilt is an inner conflict that works. And certainly from my side of the fence now, you know, I’ve worked up in the City of London, I’ve done incredibly long hours and a long journey home and everything, you know, and I haven’t seen my kids. Now, basically, I’m having a chat on a daily basis. Am I providing value to the world? I really hope so. But should should I, you know, earn more or earn less than other people. And I think that’s, that’s the problem that I’m going to have. If this takes off as I’d like it to take off. And it becomes something, you know, worthwhile. Fingers crossed, money’s going to come towards me, but I’m still gonna have that battle that actually I shouldn’t be getting this. So I think it’s absolutely accurate. What you’re saying, and you’re not alone.
Tom Trush [27:56]
Yeah, it’s amazing that that, you know, those same thoughts play out in so many people’s minds. I mean, you may not see it on the outside. But I mean, there’s a lot of people having those same things going through their mind, you know, every day in situations that from the outside, you watch me think, Hey, man, it’s a given, you know, that, I can see why that person is succeeding, but they’re having that same type of thought. I mean, it’s just, it’s one of those things that I think a lot of people, especially in a business situation, they don’t realise goes on, you know, in so many people’s minds.
David Ralph [28:27]
And it doesn’t matter how high you get on about, you’ve still got those those doubts, those insecurities, you know, I’m sure that if I can ever get Richard Branson, for example on here, I bet he sort of wakes up in certain moments and thinks, Oh, my God, I don’t really know what to do here. Everyone’s looking towards me to know, you know, should I hold my hands up and confess? You know, it’s that inner conflict all the time. It’s that that tension that forces you on, I suppose? Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Tom Trush [28:58]
That’s very true.
David Ralph [29:00]
So where is the tension in your life now away from what we were just talking about? Because would you say, Tom, but you are now successful?
Tom Trush [29:13]
I would say successful, but still have a desire to do an incredible amount more, I don’t feel satisfied. Satisfied in success. You know, I don’t put those in the two in the same sentence. I’m, I’m successful in that. Yes, I have a business that I love that I enjoy doing. I can’t really imagine doing anything else. Because I, I look forward to it every day. But, you know, success is, you know, defined different ways. And you know, I there, I still have a lot of time that I need to prove to myself.
David Ralph [29:56]
Does anyone hold you back? This Does your wife sort of say to you, because one of the battles with being an entrepreneur is the job is a passion. It’s it’s a driving force in your life? Does your wife ever say to yourself, Tom, reflect on what you’ve achieved? You don’t have to be so hard on yourself?
Tom Trush [30:14]
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, she’s a great encourager. It’s very interesting, between her and I, and that she is a teacher, and the mentality of a teacher and the mentality of an entrepreneur, people in business. I mean, they’re like, complete opposites. So it’s nice to have around to kind of balance out things. I mean, I get ideas, like any entrepreneur, I get ideas that I just wanted, you know, jump at it, you know, and by idea of, of risk is pretty low in comparison to you know, her, for example, you know, I’ll jump into things. Because I don’t necessarily see the risk, but somebody on the outside who’s not in that entrepreneurial world, you know, they see it as as Super risky. And your Why are you doing that, you know, that kind of stuff. So, it’s great to Africa, she causes me to, you’ll look at situations differently, and from another perspective,
David Ralph [31:07]
so when when it comes to risk, obviously, you must have calculated risk, you can’t just go mom and just just jump at the first thing. So why do you not see risk? Like other people it has that always been the case when he was a small child, would you be the person, you know, doing crazy things?
Tom Trush [31:27]
No, I mean, I’m, I’m not typically the one to take big risks. In business, I see it a little bit differently. And that, especially in marketing situations, I’m the one that’s in control. And that’s what I have learned. Since I started, I started my business back in 2001, part time and then went full time in 2004, one of the big lessons that I have learned is, you know, I’m happy to take on risk when I’m in control. If If my gut tells me that I’m not in control and stuff, nobody else is in control. In the past, I have taken action that allowed other people to take control and put me at greater risk. So if I’m in control, I’m happy to take take on more risk. And in fact, I think that’s part of the fun of being an entrepreneur is doing those things that people that that many people look at, and think man, that’s crazy, but we look at it as you know, no, it’s just part of being an entrepreneur, it’s part of being business. Because, you know, another big lesson that I’ve, that I’ve learned over the years is that people aren’t watching you for criticism. They’re watching you for inspiration. And we get so worried about what other people think. But they’re not really looking to criticise. I mean, the people are watching you, because, you know, they, I don’t know if jealous is the right word. But you know, when you have your own business, when you’re an entrepreneur, a lot of people envy that position, because they see it, I think it’s a lot of freedom. And oh, you can work whenever you want and that kind of stuff. So they’re not necessarily looking to criticise their inspired by what you’re doing. Because in some cases, it’s what they want to do as well, they want to have, you know, a lot of people want to have their own business, that’s a typical dream, they want to be able to do something that they love. And so, you know, I feel very blessed to be able to do something that I love every day and do it
in a way that I want to do it.
David Ralph [33:23]
The thing about being an entrepreneur, and I wrote this down and she was talking is, there’s a hell of a lot of work to get to the point when people will then go, I wish I had that too. And that’s the thing isn’t it ties up again, with with the Join Up Dots scenario, they don’t see the three years of you working part time. So you were doing your job and coming in the evening, I imagine and working till one o’clock two o’clock getting up and doing your day job. And people they only see the highlights, they don’t see the the steps that lead towards it, you know, to the directors capital suppose.
Tom Trush [34:00]
Boy, I mean, you’re you’re exactly right. And, in fact, you use some words that I use all the time. Like when I’m working with businesses on their marketing, what I find is that a lot of business owners, entrepreneurs, executives, they look at another company, and they look at their marketing, and they think, man, I want to do that. But you use the word highlights, and that’s the exact same word that I use is, you know, you’re watching somebody else or some other company achieve something, all you’re seeing are the highlights. You know, it’s, it’s like, you know, you’re seeing the one out of 20. You know, the one success out of 20 failures. And so you can’t compare yourself with somebody else when all you’re doing is seeing their highlights and not their failures. Do you think that’s what you’re right. I was that David?
David Ralph [34:45]
Yeah. But did you think that’s what stops people, you know, that what I want to get over with these shows, the avatar of the show is the people that are kind of lost, they’ve gone through college during the first job, I don’t like that. So they get a new job thinking it’s going to be the greatest and I still don’t like it, but I haven’t really found their path. And I just want them to get some storeys where people will say, Yes, I didn’t have a clue what I wanted to do. But I stumbled around, I’m actually I’m going to play the Steve Jobs speech in a moment on that, because it links into it quite well. But I stumbled around, I made some mistakes. I drank too many beers. When I had a conversation with somebody, when something else happened. I slept with few people and then bang, something just triggered. And it’s that kind of experiencing life that actually creates that path. And the missing generation I feel because I’ve been in it for years and years and years in corporate land, are the ones kind of trapped in contentment zone when it’s not too bad to do anything. But it’s not too bad to you know, really push against anything can try anything on your own, you know, you just live to the paypacket.
Tom Trush [35:54]
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, you gotta you gotta have the confidence that, you know, if you don’t know, what you’re going to do what the future holds, you just got to be be ready for the the inspiration to come. I mean, you touched on it earlier. You know, I got my inspiration from and what I’m doing now, you know, from a couple of books that I just kind of stumbled on because I worked at a library. You know, I in college, I had this job at at the library. And so I got to see books all the time. And, you know, the newest books, you know, I had time to kind of find some interest. And even back then, you know, I mentioned meteorology. I also liked photography. So I looked at photography books, but I still didn’t really know what I wanted to do until I stumbled on those two books. And I was like, yeah, this is it. This is the one. But and I consider that very late in life. I mean, I was still in college, going to college for you know, a degree in journalism. So I thought, well, maybe, you know, I kind of like to write and, you know, maybe you’re ready for a newspaper and covering sports would be great. But I still wasn’t real confident that that was the correct career.
David Ralph [37:00]
And how old were you in?
Tom Trush [37:03]
it See? Like, you’re 1920? Actually, no, he little bit later. Yeah, like more like 21? Yeah, 2122, right around there.
David Ralph [37:19]
Which is still quite young, because I’m 43. And I can honestly say, the last five weeks has been the most fulfilling of my career. I’ve had highlights in my career, I’ve had enjoyable periods. But I feel like I’ve come home, I feel like this is what I should be doing. And I wasn’t ready. And it’s not something I could have said I should have been doing this 10 years ago, because I just wasn’t ready for it. I just, it wasn’t me at that point. But now, I just can’t imagine, at the moment wanting to do anything else.
Tom Trush [37:48]
It’s a beautiful position to be in, man. Because then I mean, you wake up inspired every day. And I I imagine for you to I mean, your creativity is probably at the highest it’s ever been right now you probably have like new ideas coming to you as you’re sleeping, and you wake up all excited, ready to implement.
David Ralph [38:05]
Yeah, it’s like somebody said to me the other day is like, when you know your path, and you’re on the right track, you’ve been doused in rocket fuel, and you’ve got energy that you didn’t know that you could possibly have. And even when you’re coming home, and it’s late at night, and you should be going to bed, you think No, I just log on. And I’ll just do a couple of hours or whatever, you know, and you can’t get enough of it. You know, and I think that’s what everybody needs to have out there. And I suppose in a way, I think everybody needs to remember the the great words of George Michael, when he said, you know, you gotta have faith. And I think that kind of works, really a simple faith that things are going to get better in the long run will help you push through the dark times the the tired times, the times when you just think I can’t be bothered. And then ultimately, you will reap those rewards, you’ve got to reap those rewards. So I’m just going to play I’m going to stop rambling now. I’m going to play the Steve Jobs. Hmm. I just want to see how relevant he’s words are to your life. I think they’re spot on. But hey, what do I know. So this is Steve Jobs.
Unknown Speaker [39:08]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards. 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leaves you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [39:44]
Does it Tom? Does he make all the difference?
Tom Trush [39:47]
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, him saying that. I mean, gosh, it’s one of those things where you kind of look back, that’s something that I would love to hear, you know, back in, you know, college days where, you know, I didn’t really have a lot of direction, you know, it’s it’s scary to when you don’t know, know what you want to be when you grow up. You just kind of have to have some faith and realise that you know, everything’s happening. And you’ll eventually find the way it just might not be at the timeframe that you want it to be. So yeah, I mean, that definitely makes my life.
David Ralph [40:21]
Yeah, a simple, it’s powerful. And I believe it, it applies to everyone’s life. It really does.
Tom Trush [40:27]
Oh, yes, I agree.
David Ralph [40:28]
So getting and sort of back into your world now. So now you’re a published author, did you have some kind of mental barriers to break down in that regard as well being being a copywriter? And you know, I might be sounding dismissive, but I imagine that you don’t write to that breath and that length, but is required for a book, when somebody came along to you? Or maybe they didn’t, maybe you said, I want to write a book and you went off to a publisher. But when that first idea came along, do you you had those Gremlins in your head didn’t have an internal dialogue guy? You know, I’m, who am I? I’m Tom trash. I’m not Shakespeare, you know, I’m not Stephen King, you know, should I be writing these kind of books? Or was it a liberating exercise to do?
Tom Trush [41:13]
Oh, no doubt, I had those thoughts. Yeah, I thought, I mean, in my books now that they’ve come about, because it’s not something where I just sit down, and I just crank out a whole bunch of words to create a book, it’s a collection of things that I’ve written over time. You know, I try to break it down. And, you know, I write one, one piece, essentially one article that I share with my audience every week. And so then comes to a point where I compile those articles in repurpose to create, you know, make some changes. But you know, a lot of text is already there for that for a book, I just have to make some adjustments. But I can remember before publishing my first book, looking on Amazon, and thinking, wow, you know, imagine one day how cool would that be to be an author, that must be so much hard work. And but I don’t know if I can do that. I don’t know everything that’s involved, I have no idea how to publish a book, I knew I wanted to, you know, if you went to a traditional publisher, I knew there’d be a lot of challenges, I had no idea to get started with that. So I figured, well, I better Self Publish. But man, I don’t know how to self publish omega to do this thing. And so just like writing the book, it was baby steps, where, you know, I just did a little bit here a little bit there, and it took a while. And especially with the second book, it took longer than I wanted it to take, because I mean, each time you take this little step, you learn something, and then you have to go back and adjust. I think that’s the key, you know, with a big project, like a book, you just have to take these little baby steps. We look at books as this huge accomplishment. And, of course, it would be incredibly difficult to sit down and say, Hey, I’m going to write a book. And then you give yourself a deadline. And I know some people do it, you know, I’m going to write a book. And then they say, in the next 30 days, and they sit down, that’s all they do is focused on that book. That that’s pretty intimidating to me, you know, but if anything that you want to do like publishing a book, I think it’s just key to break it down to these little tiny chunks so that you can feel you can have ownership of some type of success, each time that you do one little step, because then that’ll keep you going. But when you fail, you put make the steps too big and you fail a couple times in a row, then your desire to finish that project just goes out the door.
David Ralph [43:34]
I remember hearing an interview with Stephen King many years ago. And if anybody sort of knows the work of Stephen King, well, it’s hard not to know because he’s been around forever and a day. He’s first book, Carrey. He wrote it. And he was so wracked with those same thoughts, those same doubts that he threw it in the bin. And it was actually his wife, who actually got it out, started reading it and said, No, this is good. You need to carry this on. But he said, somebody said to him, you know how to become a novelist. And he said, You write one page a day, for 365 days, you’ve got a book. And it was as simple as that. It may not be a brilliant book, it may not be, you know, earth shattering, but you might end up words, put them all together, you’ve got a book.
Tom Trush [44:21]
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it just takes a little bit of discipline. But of course, there’s good at you know, you had those thoughts in your mind. Well, who’s going to read this book, people really not gonna like this book? What if somebody criticises it, I mean, you always have those thoughts in the back your mind and just got understand there’s those people are out there, you’re not going to please everyone. But there are people are going to latch on to your message, because it’s perfect for that person. And they are going to love the stuff that you’re putting out there. You just got to keep reminding yourself of that. Because if you start focusing on the critics, man, you’re going to have your books never going to get published.
David Ralph [44:56]
Do you have critics on a tom trash haters, I come bow bow on air, people get on Amazon and do nasty reviews and stuff.
Tom Trush [45:04]
There’s no nasty reviews on Amazon right now. But I have received emails. In fact, with my second book, I created what I call the 11 laws of you effective marketing, one of those laws, rule or law number 11 is embrace your critics. They’re a sure sign you’re doing something right. And I had one in particular that I wrote about, and I titled The article and the chapter in the book, how to deal with a pain in the ads. And basically, it was some ads that I had critiqued. And I had a guy, just absolutely drill me and send me this email. That was just awful. You know, and he then posted on my website, and you know, it was fine. I don’t care. I mean, I, the critics are fine. You know, like, for him, I pretty much switched things around and said, You know, he was criticising my suggestions. I said, Okay, well, what do you got, you know, show me what you’re doing, that’s going to be that, you know, would make this ad better. And he silent did, he was silent pretty fast, he had nothing. But I think the critics are great. Excuse me, like I said, it’s a sure sign you’re doing something, right? Because you’re not going to please everyone. And especially when it comes to business. And making decisions that involve money, we base a lot of decisions, a lot of our decisions are based on emotions, not logic. And so when you get people that are upset with you, you know, you’ve tapped into their emotions. So you know that you’ve done something, right. And, you know, of course, the same time you have those critics, you have those people that are gonna be praising you as well that, you know, your message speaks directly to them. They may not be as loud. And you may not, they may not be as memorable, but they’re out there. And you just got to be feel confident and know that they’re out there.
David Ralph [47:05]
Does that come with experience? Because you know, I know one of the things that stops so many people starting is that fear is that fear is those voices as we keep them talking about. And so the fact that you’re saying, you get the critics, that means you’re onto something, you’re doing things right way, kind of seems backwards somehow doesn’t it? you kind of think if you’re doing everything, people are going to love you. And they’re just going to say that Tom trash, I love all his work. But you’re just saying because you’ve evoked an emotion into somebody’s vein, you’re making an impact. Is that what you see? Yeah,
Tom Trush [47:38]
yeah, yeah. The only difference is that, you know, criticism and anger. I mean, that’s much louder. It’s much more. I mean, it attracts more attention. And when people are happier, they’re inspired by what you do. That doesn’t necessarily get as much attention as the critics. I mean, just look at the media today. I mean, it goes back to, you know, in the journalism days, if it bleeds, it leads, so anything that’s negative, you know, that’s what gets the attention. It’s the good stuff that doesn’t necessarily it doesn’t, doesn’t spread as well. I mean, it’s that criticism that I don’t know, people really, they key off that criticism they like to, I don’t know,
some people just makes it feel good to criticise
David Ralph [48:21]
it said, Oh, isn’t it that you do? do really good work is like if you go into a store, you go into a store, and they give you terrible service. And I was a trainer for years and years and years. And I used to do a course on customer service and understanding building rapport and stuff. And one of the things that we used to talk about was, if you went into a store, and I gave you, you know, bad service, you’d come out and you would tell people, and you would go, do you know what happened at lunchtime, and then the next person, and you probably live on that storey for about three or four weeks or more, you go into a store and you got brilliant service, you wouldn’t tell anyone, you would just kind of come out and just keep it to yourself, even though that person has gone over to give you the service, but you weren’t even expecting a over delivered. And it’s really sad, isn’t it that we don’t share? And we don’t and it’s not just it’s not an American thing? You know, if you Americans come over here, wow, you’d know, bad service. You really would. Because we as English, we go over there. And it’s already, you know, have a nice day. And how are you sir? and all that kind of stuff? I find that amazing? Because we don’t get any about over here.
Tom Trush [49:27]
Yeah, I mean, well, and in good service. Good service is fairly common. I mean, it’s kind of dangerous, saying that great service is something that’s pretty exceptional. And then bad service. You know, I would argue it’s, it’s less common than, you know, excellent service. So, you know, when it happens, it’s just one of those things, it touches a nerve. So you just feel like you got to talk about it. You got to tell somebody because you want them to share in your
I don’t know sharing that negative emotion.
David Ralph [50:00]
Yeah, it just it doesn’t make sense. Doesn’t it doesn’t really make sense. Wouldn’t it be nice a world if we were all singing when we walk down the street and hugging each database right now? Yeah. Yeah, you don’t you don’t want to walk into a pub of men and all be hugged and have him singing choir songs to you. Now? That’s not a good idea. That takes me back to the email, I’m sure.
Unknown Speaker [50:23]
That would be i’d Yes,
David Ralph [50:24]
yes. So at the end of the show, what I like to do is just to bring it full circle is do something called a sermon on the mic. And this is when I hand over the presenting duties to sell. And like a time travel Are you with bag, and you have a one on one with your younger self. And you can choose any age of younger Tom trust you want. But it’s your chance to actually give them some insights and words of wisdom of how your life has panned out to help ease our way. So I’m going to play the music and when it fades out, Mr. Tom trash, this is a sermon on the mic.
Unknown Speaker [51:05]
We go with the best bit
Unknown Speaker [51:07]
of the show.
Tom Trush [51:22]
Alright, well, it’s, boy, it’s tough to follow that intro there. But I’ll go back to a I guess early in my business days, I was always very concerned with what people thought of me and I mentioned it before, you know, a little, my own quote that I kind of come up with is that people aren’t watching you, for people are watching you for inspiration, not criticism, I was always very worried about what I would do, what people would think about me and early on in business, I thought, well, people are looking at me. So I’ve got a project, this appearance that I’m bigger than what I really am. And so, you know, I’ve got a big business, and I’ve got a team behind me all that kind of stuff, you know, that I needed to prove that I was capable of, you know, being a business like an apple, we talked about Apple earlier, or a recognisable business that and then people would have confidence in me, what I didn’t realise is that people do business with people, they want to work directly with you, they’re not working with a big name. And so that was something that really halted me in my early days of businesses thinking that I had to portray an image that was bigger than what I actually am. The second thing, it comes back to a quote that I love from Thomas Jefferson. And he said, If you want something you’ve never had, you must do something you’ve never done. It seems so simple. But taking that advice has made a big difference in the achievements that I’ve had. Because there’s oftentimes where I want to achieve something, I want to do something. And then when I step back, and look, because I haven’t achieved that goal or that objective, I realised I’ve just been doing the same stuff over and over again. So I have to get out of my comfort zone, I have to think of something that’s different, some different course of action that’s going to get me to that result. And, again, I mean, that quote is just it’s so basic, but it has so much power behind it. Because we get caught in these traps, we want something but we’re only willing to do something that makes us comfortable, we got to get out of that comfort zone. And we got to start thinking of ways to get an objective that’s a little bit different than what we’ve already been doing before. In business, sometimes that’s looking at another industry may be looking at somebody who’s a mentor in a business that’s not even related to yours. But if you’re not achieving some kind of goal or objective that you want, you know, sit back, look at what you’re doing. And then figure out you know, the different thing that you have to do to get there, or at least you have to try. So those are the two big things here. If you want something you’ve never ever had, you must be willing to do something you’ve never done. And remember that people are watching you for inspiration not criticism.
David Ralph [54:06]
Thomas Jefferson what a man I so I’m look for that one in Google and print it out. Because it’s it’s fundamental, isn’t it? If you want something Yeah, never had do things that you’ve never done before or whatever it was. But now I think that’s, that’s brilliant. I will remember that myself. Tom trash. It’s been an absolute delight having you on Join Up Dots today. You’ve been open and generous and of course, extremely talkative, which makes it extremely easy for my side of the fence. So I’d like to thank you for that. As I say to all the guests in the future, if you’ve got new successes and new storeys that you want to share, come back because the doors never closed. And I believe our histories carry on going forward. And the best way of creating our futures is actually looking back and joining up those dots. Tom trash. Thank you so much.
Tom Trush [54:54]
David, thank you very much. Had a great time.