Tom Ziglar Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast
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Introducing Tom Ziglar
Tom Ziglar is todays guest joining us on the Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots business coaching podcast interview.
He is a man who not only has an unusual surname, but also has a surname that is famous throughout the world.
The son of the late Zig Ziglar, and is the current President of Zig Ziglar Training Systems which is a position that he has held since 1996.
And wow this seems to be a position that he was made to hold.
Within six months of taking up the position, production increased 40 percent, with 30 percent fewer people on the wage bill.
He shares his fathers belief that
How The Dots Joined Up For Tom
So how Tom Ziglar did he feel when stepping into his fathers shoes?
Did he want to I suppose is another good question?
And how did he overcome those same fears that we all have but are surely worse when following along in the family business?
And lastly if he focuses on helping others get what they want….what is it that he truly wants?
Well let’s bring onto the show to start joining up dots, as we discuss the words of Steve Jobs with the one and only Tom Ziglar.
During the show we discussed such weighty topics such as:
The amazing fact that its estimated that over 250,000,000 people have been influenced by the works of his father….Zig Ziglar!
How you don’t have to be in the shadow of someone, you just have to make your own shadow!
How 7 out of 10 people in the world, are according to Tom, the walking zombies and have yet to find their true path in the world!
The three key questions that we all need to ask ourselves to be able to find our true passions!
How his first public speaking role was to over 15,000 people and how scared he was to do it…..I can only imagine!
The meaning behind the phrase “Your dreams are the edges of your life”….fascinating stuff!
How To Connect With Tom Ziglar
You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here – enjoy
Audio Transcription Of Tom Ziglar Interview
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling join up dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK David Ralph
David Ralph [0:26]
Yes. Hello there. Good morning to everybody. And welcome to Episode 114 of join up dots it seems like only Well, two weeks ago, we did Episode 100. But God time is going really quickly. Today’s guest is a man who not only has an unusual surname, but also a surname, but he’s famous throughout the world. He’s the son of the late Zig Ziglar and is the current president of Ziglar Training Systems, which is a position that is held since 1996. And wow, this seems to be a position that was made to hold as we’ve been six months are taking up, production increases 40%, with 30% fewer people on the wage bill, he shares his father’s belief that you can have everything in life you want, if you just help enough, other people get what they want. But of course, this show isn’t just about celebrating the successes, but looking at all the dots that make up a life. So how did he feel when stepping into his father’s shoes? And did he want to, I suppose is a good question. And how did you overcome those same fears that we all have, but surely words when following along in the family business? And lastly, if he focuses on helping others get what they want? What is it that he truly wants? Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show, to start join up dots the one and only Mr. Tom Ziglar. How are you, Tom?
Tom Ziglar [1:39]
Fantastic. Great to be here. Thanks for having me is absolutely
David Ralph [1:42]
lovely to have you on. It’s one of those names, actually, you bet is, as I say, it’s an unusual name. But when I saw it come through my sort of booking system, I thought, Oh, my God, it’s somebody usually to Ziglar it did you have that same effect on lots of people where they sort of know the name, but they’re not really sure sure. where the name comes from?
Tom Ziglar [2:02]
Well, I tell you what, I’m blessed that no matter where I go in the world, in fact, last week, I was in the UK. And you know, dad’s name is so well known, we estimate 250 million people were impacted by him. I look at it as a blessing. It’s like I have brothers and sisters all over the world. People I haven’t met, obviously, and they know something about us, or what we do. And it’s it’s just neat to be able to meet and greet people that you have something in common, but it’s like the first time you’ve seen an old friend in a very long time.
David Ralph [2:35]
It’s astonishing. That fact, isn’t it. 250 million people influenced by one person, I know he was your dad. And you saw him sort of very differently from the rest of us probably in his underwear laying on the sofa, like all that dads do. But when you see that fact, does that shock you, but your dad has that sort of impact?
Tom Ziglar [2:55]
You know, it’s kind of mind boggling. And you start doing all the numbers that we’ve had one podcast that’s been downloaded over 25 or 25 million times. He’s he wrote 32 books, millions of copies sold. public appearances. I mean, for 20 years of his career, he did about 30 events a year where the average crowd was over 15,000 people. You know, those are you start adding those numbers up. And then you add in radio and TV and in written emails, and all the different things that go on, and it just kind of overwhelms you. We can’t go anywhere where we asked her, you know, a group of people, even two or three people, have you heard of Zig Zigler, and it’s either a direct, yes, or an indirect Oh, yeah, my dad used to listen to him in the car or something like that.
David Ralph [3:43]
Yeah, he had a kind of peculiar way of talking, didn’t he at the way of actually expressing his words. And this show isn’t just about your dad. But I think it’s good to sort of frame how you’ve actually sort of come about, and what was that sort of way of speaking wasn’t his natural voice? Or did he put it on for performances?
Tom Ziglar [4:00]
You know, that was his natural voice. He, of course, he’s from, he says, LA, lower Alabama, grew up in Mississippi, and that’s the deep south. So people from the deep south have a famous Southern accent. And dad had that. And he had a super deep voice. And so when he would speak, you know, there were very few voices out there like that. And then he had a way with words, he could take sayings and familiar words and quotes, and we call it Ziglar eyes. He could Ziglar eyes them and make them memorable. I can use to say things like, Well, you’ve got stinking thinking you need a checkup from the neck up to get rid of those hardening of the attitudes. And of course, we chuckle when we laugh, and we go, you know, that’s right. I mean, that is, that’s true. So we had that way of saying something memorable, with a memorable voice or a memorable tone at the same time. And it’s very, very hard to replicate that. I mean, that was one of my challenges is just overcoming it’s an internal thing, not an external and internal thing that when I would go out and speak or do something that that I thought people wanted me to be like my dad. And that’s not at all what people wanted. People wanted me to be me. And so once I came to that realization, life was so much easier.
David Ralph [5:18]
And how did you get to the realization because I said in the introduction, it’s must be hard stepping into a barber shoes, and especially into a global organization like it is because I think the stats are, if you want to grow in a family business, allow your son to take charge of it. And I think the stats of a business is astonishing. And so you had all that it’s not just a business is people’s dreams, isn’t it is motivating the world.
Tom Ziglar [5:47]
That’s right. And, you know, there’s, there’s a group of people over here, they’re called sob, sons and bosses. And you’re right, the way you ruin a business is let somebody in the family take it over, unless you prepare them correctly, and insist that they capitalize on their unique talents and gifts. And other words, if they’re not prepared, you’re in for trouble. And if you expect them to be like the boss, they’re replacing the you know, the dad, the mom, whoever they’re replacing, you’re in for a big shock, because it just won’t work. Growing up, dad told me this, he said, Son, you can do anything in life you want, there’s only two things that I want from you. Number one, whatever you do do it with 100% integrity. And number two, give it 100% effort. Well guess what that meant, I could be a golfer or I could be an artist, I could be a business owner didn’t matter. As long as I did it with integrity, and effort. And what dad was really saying, and the lesson for us all is is each of us have unique talents and gifts. And that’s what we need to focus on. So my gift and a business was totally different than dad’s. So once I really believe that internally, hey, you know, what be myself be who I am, be the best version of myself, then when I go and speak, or train or create a program or whatever, I get to do it on the backbone that dad built, but I don’t have to do it the way he would have done it. Because if I tried that it wouldn’t work.
David Ralph [7:21]
But But the issue, I suppose, isn’t yourself, Tom, the issue is the expectation of the audience, isn’t it? When they see the Ziglar, I suppose if you went to see, you know, Paul McCartney’s son, you would expect him to be almost a replica of Paul McCartney, because that’s what you’re hoping for, isn’t it?
Tom Ziglar [7:37]
Well, you think that’s what you’re hoping for what you’re you’re hoping for is one that they are excellent. And what they do, and to that they shine from within that they’re completely satisfied and whole and what they’re doing, there’s nothing more disappointing than seeing someone trying to fill somebody else’s shoes, and they just don’t fit. Right. It’s just very, it’s very frustrating to see that I know, I was a golfer growing up. And I remember Jack Nicklaus, his kids had incredible talent. And several of them were pros, and they in the head short time on the tour, and I just remember the pressure that they must have been under to be as good as their dad was. And wow. And you know, they were they were great golfers, if their dad hadn’t gone before him, they probably would have had successful careers in that area. But because the expectations were so high, they just couldn’t do it was it was an incredibly difficult thing. And that’s kind of the pressure that I put on myself is I thought, oh, wow, when I go speak, or when I go do something, I gotta do it like dad. And what I realized is, that’s not what audiences value, what audiences value is someone who’s got an incredible amount of integrity, great transparency, and a passion for what they do. And so once I learned to be transparent, and okay with who I was, and had passion in those areas, man, then people relate to me now, guess what, the audience that I attract is different than the audience that dad attracted, that’s okay. He could reach the people he could reach and I can reach the people I can reach. So there’s, there’s definitely an advantage to have that platform to go stand on. But just to just to think you’re going to survive in the shadow is it doesn’t work, you’ve got to create who you are, and where you are of your own talent, your own work ethic, you know, everything that goes with that.
David Ralph [9:40]
Because this is one of the problems that so many people have. And I hear it time and time again, on every show, we have people and I go, you’ve got to find your passion. You’ve got to be authentic to yourself. And everybody agrees but but so many people in the world today on pops, but I kind of expected of them. They’re doing jobs but I have a paper money, but it does doesn’t fulfill them, or they’re doing stuff to make other people proud is a difficult thing, isn’t it to find your unique self and your passion, but its integrity that you do?
Tom Ziglar [10:12]
Yeah, then that’s one of the things that I work with people on quite a bit. In fact, the studies in the United States, there’s a huge Gallup poll that came out recently, and in the technical word, and industry is called engagement. What percentage of employees are engaged. And engagement simply means, you know, if you’re engaged, you get there early, stay late. If somebody says help out with this project, you’re excited to do it. It’s fulfilling, you bring solutions to the meeting instead of problems. disengagement is somebody who’s flying under the radar, don’t pick me. You know, they get their little late, they leave a little early, they’re on Facebook or Twitter or texting during work. You know, they’re just, they’re just kind of distant. You know, they’re not in the right place. They’re always they’re for the money. They’re not there for dreamer passion. 52% of the workforce is what we call disengaged, and then another 18% are actively disengaged. actively disengaged means you’re poisoning the well. Not only do you not get any fulfillment out of what you do and where you are. But you also go against leadership and management. If management says one thing, you whisper behind their back something else. That means that seven out of 10 people in the workforce are disengaged. I call those people zombies. They’re like The Walking Dead. And so how do you cure the walking dead? I mean, that is maybe the issue of our time, because we’re in a more educated, you know, there’s more knowledge and information on the internet than ever, we should have the world at our fingertips. Yet, seven out of 10 people are like zombies, you know, they’re just getting by. So what is that cure? And how do we change that? And that’s one of the things that I’ll that I love work with people on?
David Ralph [12:01]
Have you ever been disengaged? Have you been in jobs that you haven’t liked?
Tom Ziglar [12:06]
Oh, yeah, everybody. I mean, I think almost everybody would admit to that. And here’s the thing is, it’s an attitude. So I’ll just give it I’ll just give a university student, for example, young person goes to school, they go to university, they think they got it all sorted out, they study hard, they like it, they’re excited, and they go into the workforce. And guess what, they can’t find a job in the area that they thought that they were going to find it. And so they have to take the you know, the in between job to get by a job, the job that just pays the bills, that wasn’t what they’re passionate about. But they just have to do it. Because they got to pay the bills. So now they have an attitude choice. And that choices is they can see this job as a springboard to where they want to go. Or they can see it as a sentence to be endured. And if they see it as a sentence to be endured, then nobody views them as a solution for the passion that they have. Because who wants to associate with that person? They’re just getting by their zombie. We’ve got enough zombies on our team, why would I hire one more. On the other hand, if you see it as a springboard, let’s just say you’re waiting tables, but your ideas, you know what, I’m going to wait tables better than anybody in the world, I’m going to have the greatest attitude, I’m going to exhibit the most skill. And I’m going to do it more efficiently and effectively with the right kind of activity. And than anybody’s ever done this position. The day is going to come when you serve that right person who says you know what, we could use it attitude like yours at our place. And that’s where your dream starts become a reality. Because you realize that no matter where you are, you are going to connect with and have an influence with people who can take you one step closer to what you were designed to be, do and have.
David Ralph [14:01]
Now that’s fascinating, isn’t it? Because it is everything’s mindset, but something that you basically waking up and you’re going right, okay, I don’t like this job. I didn’t really want to do it, but I’m going to make it the best I possibly can. Now, that’s a powerful statement, because that sends out intent to your whole being doesn’t it?
Tom Ziglar [14:18]
Absolutely. And here’s the reality is this. We all have dreams. I mean, we have goals, and we have dreams, you know, things that you know, it could be, you know, a one month vacation to Tahiti, it could be that that sports car, we’ve always wanted to a paid for house college fund for our great grandkids, you know, giving an enormous amount of money to charity, we all have dreams. And what I’ve discovered when I talk to people is that dreams always take time and money. Right? I mean, very few dreams worthwhile. Dreams are just free, you know, they usually take a lot of time and energy and effort to get there to cost money to achieve your dream. So here’s the logic behind this, this idea is that, the better I do in my job, meaning if I’m the best way to ever, I’m probably going to get promotions and I’m going to get more tips, I might be hired away to that job that I really want. Whatever the case is, the better I do at my job, the faster I achieve my dream, because you see dreams take time and money. So the attitude should be Hey, I don’t go to work for a paycheck. I go to work for a dream. And when we go to work for a dream it changes everything
David Ralph [15:34]
that let’s play an unknown play a motivational speech, you love motivational speeches, you’ve grown up with them. So this is one that was played recently by Jim Carrey, I don’t know if you’ve heard this, it’s been on the internet. And yeah, what what do you think about this, I’m going to play it now.
Jim Carrey [15:49]
My father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. So he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.
David Ralph [16:16]
Tom Ziglar [16:20]
Yeah, that that is extremely powerful. You know, when you go to bed at night? The question is, is did what you do that day that that take you closer to or further from your dream? Because otherwise, what’s the point? You know, we talked about person, purpose or passion and, and a lot of times, especially in the Christian world, you know, people talk a lot about having a purpose, you know, I want to make sure I live my purpose, our purpose, you know, what is our purpose? How do I define my purpose? God created me for a purpose. What is that? And here’s the crazy thing is people are unwilling to commit to the perfect because what if they’re wrong? I mean, my gosh, what if you spent your whole life committing to a purpose, that wasn’t the right thing. So instead of committing to it, and figuring out down the road that you were, you know, slightly off course, we make the worst decision of all, which is to wander aimlessly around in the wilderness, not pursuing anything. So what I learned and what I teach people is, Hey, don’t pursue a purpose, purpose, pursue your passion. What is it that makes you passionate? What is it that makes your heart sing when you’re doing it? What is it that gets you up in the morning and keeps you up late at night? What is that passion. And the reason I believe that one of my friends Joel Boggis taught me this, he said, Look, just like if you believe your purpose was designed for you by the Creator, doesn’t it make sense that the passion you have was also given to you by the Creator. And here’s the cool thing, when you pursue your passion, it almost always leads to your purpose, purpose. And the example I give is, let’s say you’re going on a trip, like I flew from Dallas Fort Worth to London Heathrow. I take off the airplane, we’re in the air, we’re outside of Dallas, about 30 minutes, the pilot comes on the intercom. And he says, ladies and gentlemen, I’ve got news for everybody, we’re going to have to turn around and land back at Dallas Fort Worth airport, you see there was winds up in the air that we didn’t plan on and they blown us off course. So we have to go back to Dallas Fort Worth and start this trip over. Of course, that’s crazy, that would never happen. That’s not the way life works. The pilot just adjust the chorus while he’s in the air. It’s the same thing with our dreams, we have these big dreams that you know that we want to achieve and we want to go after. And then the winds of life blow us off course. And for some reason, we think we got to go back to square one. Man, that’s the worst thinking in the world. The right thinking is man, this is okay, life through me a curveball. I’ve just got to adjust the course a little bit. There’s a detour remaking right here. But you know what, maybe I will learn something on this detour. Maybe I’ll make a friend sitting next to me in this scene that I’ll have extra time with. So that’s what when we talk about, you know, let’s pursue our dream. Let’s go for what we really want. Why not? Because this life, we’ve only got one chance at it, we might as well invested in our dreams, than to spend it on somebody else’s what they think we should do.
David Ralph [19:34]
Now one of the problems though Tom is so many people, when they hear that Find your passion, they go, I don’t know, my passion, or you know, I’m too busy at work. I’m too busy doing this. I don’t know my passion. And I’m going to throw this out to you. Because this has come out in the conversations. And the tagline of the show is connecting our past to build our future. And it’s become more and more relevant that phrase, as I’ve been recording. And it seems to me that when we’re talking about the passion, we’re talking about the things that we would do. But no money is the things that we love doing. And really the true passion was when we was kids, and we would run home from school doing things and we would lay on the floor and we would draw or we would build or we would make club parts or whatever. And it’s that kind of almost playing just because we wanted to do it, which is the real passion. But as adults, we forget somewhere along the line. And we should be channeling our efforts into finding that again. What do you think about that?
Tom Ziglar [20:30]
Yep. I agree with that. And I think there’s a lot that we can learn from going back in time, you know, connecting the dots of time. I like that theme. So here are three clarifying questions that you can actually look back on your past to help figure out your passion. The first one is we already talked to already talked about it briefly is when you look back in your past, what were things that you did in the past that made your heart come alive? You know, was it working outside? Was it working with your hands was helping somebody else in a specific area? What is it that wow, I when I was doing that I just felt you know, just whole and alive. The second, the second thing I asked people to do is to look back in your life and recognize this thing, what kind of problems that people naturally bring you. So if you’re just minding your own business, and a friend comes up to you and says, Hey, I need your help on this, what kind of a problem that they bring you. And usually what they’re really saying is, Hey, this is your talent. I mean David you’re really good at this type of thing. That’s why I’m bringing you this kind of problem. The third thing that you need to look at is what kind of trial or miss or obstacle or you know, issue did you have to overcome in your life, something big, something that, you know, may have knocked you out of the game for a little while something that you had to get your arms around, you know, was it a relationship that dissolved and illness you had to go through, you know, job loss, changing careers are something that you really had to tackle and work through. And after you work through that, and you overcame it, what is it that you learned, and what you’ll discover is that the intersection of those three things, the thing that makes your heart come alive, the types of problems that people bring you and the lessons you learned in the biggest trial that you went through, where those three things intersect, there’s probably a good chance that your passions right in the middle of that, because that has prepared you to accomplish things that you can’t even imagine. So as you look at those things, just think about how can I leverage those things? How can I connect those things? How can I connect those dots? To do what I really want for the with the rest of my life?
David Ralph [22:45]
Have you ever done the exercise yourself and found out that you should be the president of Zika Training Systems?
Tom Ziglar [22:52]
I tell you what I have and here’s here’s what I’ll tell you with. This is a this was a great, quick clarifying question for everybody. Last year, I asked myself a question I hadn’t asked this question to myself before. And I just said this, I said to myself, I said, Tom, what do you see yourself doing the rest of your life? Now the rest of your life hopefully is a long time, you know, depending how old you are you we all hope to live a fruitful life. And so as I started digging into that question, I realized I can’t that’s a big picture question. You know, I can’t say oh, I’m going to be the president of this company, or I’m going to do this project or, you know, I’m going to do this thing. Because those projects and companies and things they change all the time. So the big picture question had to be what am I going to do the rest of my life, it has to be transcendent, it has to be bigger than that. And so out of that, I ended up writing a mission statement. And this mission statement is where I think my passion is it’s what I love doing. And it’s the filter through which I make all my decisions. And here it is. My mission, my personal mission, is to help you become significant by equipping you to help others become significant. That’s my passion. That’s what I love to do. So it’s, it’s not just, it’s not just, you know, a talk with some good points in it that you can learn from, it’s actually equipping you with tools, and truce and things that you can use to help somebody else. Because when you help somebody else, in my view, because we have I have a sequence that I teach, and it’s called from survival to stability, to success to significance. And the difference between success and significance is this success is you know, it’s money, it’s fame, it’s doing well, significance is when you help somebody else be do or have more than they thought possible. So my passion is about helping others become significant. And the way I do that is equipping them. So yeah, that’s, that’s a great question for everybody to ask is, what what do you see yourself doing the rest of your life?
David Ralph [25:12]
Is your mission statement bow, not just your dad said in a different way. I’m fascinated, but your passions are so aligned to your father’s? Because I’ve got a father and he’s still living around, and he’s having great guns, but my passions aren’t anywhere near he’s done nothing at all. So is it a sort of family belief that you’ve had that you all kind of buy into? Do you have brothers and sisters that you go, No, I don’t want anything to do with that, I just want to go off and do my own thing.
Tom Ziglar [25:39]
My sisters are completely different. And but we still have the same principles and values, which is very interesting, you know, we, we’d really, we’ve all bought into dad’s core philosophies that you can have everything in life you want, if you’ll just help enough other people get what they want. But you’re but am I passionate about how I go about doing it is different. My gift is connection. And I have an ability to see a bunch of different moving parts and connected into a very simple process. And so I love teaching processes, I love teaching others how to share that same thing. Dad’s was more in the personal development space, it was more about inspiring somebody individually to, you know, to be more successful. And then that person then would have the gumption to go out and learn how they could impact others in whatever area they were in. So his was actually a broader platform, I’m more geared towards people who want to teach and serve others. Dad was for anybody of any any walk in life. Of course, our messages are similar in the in the foundation, but my passion is is I think, just a little bit different than is but yeah, there is a lot of similarity there.
David Ralph [26:52]
So so in the introduction, I asked a question, you know, how did you feel when stepping into your father’s shoes? And did you want to? What was it? Was it something you wanted to? Or was it but they turned to you and say, you know, as the son of Zig, you’re the man?
Tom Ziglar [27:09]
Well, I mean, let’s, let’s be clear on this. Dad’s gift was speaking and writing books. And the last 25 years that he was alive, he didn’t really have any day to day input into the running of our business. And I was the president and CEO for the last 20 years. So 20 years of that time, he’s doing his thing, writing books and speaking, and I’m running the back end of the business. I never until four years ago went out to speak. I mean, that was it. You know, that wasn’t the role that I was in. And people kept saying, hey, Tom, you should go speak, you should go do this, you should go do that. And I was like, Oh, no, that’s not what I do. That’s what dad does. And then four years ago, it just started opening up. And when I realized, like, I already said, when I realized, Hey, I didn’t have to be my dad, I could be myself. That’s when it became fun. So when somebody said, hey, you’re the net, you know, you need to step into your dad’s role. I didn’t see it as that because I was the business guy, kind of running the back end. And dad was the stage person who was sharing the message, you know, he was the spokesperson, he was the speaker. I was the back end business guy. And it’s only in the last four years when I’ve been getting out doing speaking and training.
David Ralph [28:29]
You know, I’m a trainer and a speaker by career. I’ve never done what I’m doing now before, but presentations. But to be yourself, when four years ago, were saying to you, right, Tom, I want you to step up? And do you know, public speaking, you’re not going to be going into a room with five people who are barely interested in what you’re saying. Having the name Ziglar you’re suddenly going out and speaking in front of thousands. And was it like that was your first presentation in a big arena? Because you must have gone? Oh, my God, what am I doing here?
Tom Ziglar [29:00]
That’s, you know, it’s it’s funny, you mentioned that because the first time I spoke, it was in front of 15,000 people.
David Ralph [29:07]
And that’s not being Bruce Springsteen or something, isn’t it?
Tom Ziglar [29:10]
Yeah. And I was pretty much scared to death.
David Ralph [29:14]
So So how did you overcome that? Because that’s a key thing. Everyone’s scared. But you actually and that, you know, I’m used to public speaking, that would be terrifying. So how did you overcome that?
Tom Ziglar [29:26]
Well, the first thing is dad and I were doing the program together. So I knew that no matter what I said, he’d make them happy. So I guess it’s kind of like, you know, being on a team, and and you’ve got, let’s say, you’re playing at the highest level of football, and you got 11 players on the field, and you got 10 superstars, and you, you know, you know, the other guys can handle it, even if you miss apply every now and then. So that gave me a lot of comfort. And then just realizing that because of, you know, the foundation that I had, and understanding that what we were sharing was, was so simple. And people really loved it as long as you, you know, it’s it, this is kind of over, you know, it’s over simplified sometimes. But if you really prepare, and your focus is on the audience and not yourself, you’ll do fine. It’s people who are totally focused on themselves. Like, if you’re going out there, to bless the audience to serve them, they’re the number one reason you’re there, not you, then you kind of get past those hang ups. And then you got to take that first step and walk out there, because I, you know, I’ll be honest with you, man, the butterflies were going crazy. I was wondering my voice was going to hold. I mean, it was quite intimidating. The first time you speak is 15,000 people. Now the good news is, is the room was it was it was a basketball arena, it didn’t really matter, you could only see 500 people because of the lights anyway, though, you know, it’s just speak to the front row.
David Ralph [31:05]
I remember seeing an interview with George Michael. And he said that he would rather sing in front of 10,000 people, 100,000 people, because they blow into one band singing in front of two people, that’s their eyes on him.
Tom Ziglar [31:20]
Yep, I can see that.
You know, but the connection that you want those, you know, the most powerful presentations that I’ve either given or be involved in is you feel like the speaker is speaking straight to you. And so that’s the way I prepare is, you know, there’s somebody in the room who needs this message. How can I connect with them? What can I do? What can I say? And when you prepare that way, and the focus is on their their need their benefit, not yours, then it then it changes the way you come across?
David Ralph [31:55]
And then when you would step up the stage where you sort of running around High Five in people was it an absolute adrenaline fueled Tom, that I had to deal with?
Tom Ziglar [32:06]
Sometimes it is, you know, because the crowds going nuts and they get all excited. And you know, it just it just depends on the environment that of course the bigger audiences do that. It’s it’s, you know, it just every to me, every audience is different. So the big audiences definitely feel that rush.
David Ralph [32:27]
Did you pulling speaking in front of UK audience is different because we’re very reserved, we we don’t whoop and holler like the Americans do.
Tom Ziglar [32:36]
Let me tell you this. I’ve you know, since I just got back from the UK. And our and our message, I think if if the listeners here are listening to, and they’ve heard of Ziglar before, and they want to pick up one of the books or whatever. You know, you’ll know that the dad’s legacy is personal development, attitude, motivation. And it has a very strong faith message Genet. He was always abundantly clear about his own faith, but he never pointed the finger or went to preaching or anything like that. It was like, hey, this has worked for me, you might want to check it out. So when I was in the UK, last, the last 10 days, or last week, I was really watching the audience. Because on a whole, I would say that the UK audience that I experienced in the room, every corner of the world was represented much more diverse than it is here. So we had, you know, probably 30% of the room wasn’t born in the UK, they all immigrated there from different parts. So there’s a much higher level diversity, more secular, different faiths represented many atheists and agnostics, as well, because I asked, and I and I basically opened it up this way. I said, Hey, I’m going to share with you some philosophies and some of the secrets that made Ziglar successful, do you want me to share 60% of what he said was, that made him successful or 100%. And of course, the room and and reserve kind of way said, of course, 100%. And so because I asked for permission and set the platform up, I found that the UK audience was much more accepting much more open to what we were presenting, because I was presenting something that had worked incredibly, for my father and works for me. So we were able to talk about all these philosophies, and ideas and faith and so on in a very open format. In the US, a lot of times it’s more it’s, it’s more politically correct, I would say here, and people are more easily offended here. Especially if you don’t take the time to build that relationship. So I was very, very well received and pleased. The smiles and the last after, you know, the South African, the Australian were laughing far more than the Brit. But everybody was smiling. So it was a great day.
David Ralph [35:10]
So So where was this time? Where did you do your presentation?
Tom Ziglar [35:14]
I was in London, we were actually five minutes from London Heathrow Airport,
David Ralph [35:18]
also, who’s outside London, he wasn’t in the top hub.
Tom Ziglar [35:22]
Yeah, but most of the people drove in from the hub. So I think I think when we come back, we’re going to do it right in central district. So that’ll be good.
David Ralph [35:30]
You don’t want to do to set central they will be drunk by do drink a lot. Do it at nine o’clock in the morning, you’ll be just about Okay, anything after lunchtime, you’ve lost them.
Tom Ziglar [35:42]
David Ralph [35:42]
That’s a little tip for you. So I do think that we are more accepting in the United Kingdom. Certainly, our humor is a lot more colorful. We do say things that, you know, I’m very aware on this, this podcast, but I don’t know where my voice is landing. So I had to be a very different person when I would be normally. And you you actually picked up on that you picked up on there’s a vibe in the United Kingdom, that you can be a little bit more freer with your opinions.
Tom Ziglar [36:12]
I did. And of course, I also picked up on that you had to build the relationship and let people understand where you were going that it wasn’t a, hey, this is what I believe and you know, accepted or, you know, or you’re wrong, it was more of a this is the truth that we’ve discovered that have helped us to be successful. Why don’t you see for yourself. And with that approach, you know, the dialogue was great. And then somebody in the room actually said, because he had, he’d become a citizen of the UK from another country. And he said, when he took his oath, he had to basically state that he was going to be tolerant, he was going to accept other cultures and other people of different backgrounds. It was it was kind of part of the standard part of the ocean becoming a citizen. And I said, Wow, so tolerance is, you know, really taught here. And then I explained kind of the Ziglar version of tolerance. And that is my personal belief, and my dad’s belief is, is that we think that tolerance is overrated, it’s actually taken the place of love. And when we go out and we’re with people, we would we would rather this we would say, is it okay, if I love you? And instead of tolerating you, and what we mean by that is, it’s real simple. Do you want your kids to love you? Or do you want them to tolerate you? So if you have a different religion, or a different lifestyle, or different political agenda or whatever, is it okay, if I just love you? And you know what, when you talk that way, people, they like that. It’s an amazing thing. It’s like, yeah, that’s okay. You see, because if if I love you, it doesn’t mean we have to agree on everything.
David Ralph [37:55]
Because that is amazing to me. Because if somebody kind of if you came up to me and said, Is it alright to love you? I feel a bit strange to be honest.
Tom Ziglar [38:04]
Yeah. Well, you’d have to see, you know what I mean by that with the voice inflection and body language and everything else, it just means, Hey, you know what, we’re both people going down life’s a journey. It’s kind of tough out there. You know, you you believe certain things that don’t and vice versa. If we’re going to go down this path together, is it okay if I just love you rather than just tolerating you because to me toleration means that I’m just kind of putting up with you, you know, it’s like, you go do what you want, you kind of irritate me. But if I love you, it’s like, hey, let’s go, you know, I don’t drink but hey, let’s go have a beer. You know, what I’m saying? It’s, it’s more of a it’s more of a friend and an endearment. Kind of a perspective. Because I meet people from all over the world. And basically, you know, I’ve just kind of noticed that people like to be loved. I mean, it’s like, the one missing ingredient that so many people have is they need hope and encouragement and, and love and, and if I can love them, you know, serve them help them, then that sends a message that’s far different than just tolerating somebody. So DD my see what the amazing
David Ralph [39:13]
thing that I find with all the self development, and all the sort of motivational coaches and all that kind of stuff, if your diet affected 250 million people. And there’s, you know, I’m sure the other guys are all doing the circuit and stuff are affecting a percentage as well, why it kind of stops, because as humans, we all want to be the best versions of ourselves, oh, I would like that to be the case. And so that’s why we’re all buying books, and we’re doing courses, and we’re listening to yourself, and we’re, you know, just just sucking up big time because we want to improve, but it never becomes a global movement, you think that 250 million people, you would have thought that that would just keep on going on going on going on? Once you get to that big, it was just going to change the world. But it kind of stopped somehow, doesn’t it? I wonder why people don’t take it as far as they possibly can?
Tom Ziglar [40:04]
Yeah, you know, I’ve got some, some, some thoughts on that. And I think it has to do with worldview. You know, even though let’s say 250 million were impacted or recognize that in some way. Just because of that doesn’t mean they accept everything that he said, in the world view that I would get at is this. And this is very simplistic, which is the way I like to make things because I can understand that is really there are there there’s two basic worldviews, and maybe you’ve heard this before, there’s the people who view the world is cake. And there’s the people who view the world as light. Now, if picture a cake, a cake has a certain amount of pieces in it, some people view the world is having a certain amount of pieces. And if you have a big piece, that means other people have smaller pieces, right? It’s it’s kind of a land, it’s kind of a land based economy, you know, whoever has the land has the power. And there’s only so much land. And if you got land, that means I don’t have land. So you got something I don’t have an envy and greed and all those things start there start coming up. And then there’s the other worldview, which is light. And I’ll just give it this way, I have a candle in my hand, and it’s it’s lit up. And let’s say I have something that you need you want, and your candle isn’t lit. So I bring to you what you need or want and I extend my candle, and I light your candle. Well guess what, now there’s twice as much light. And so I believe I can go out and be successful. And while I’m being successful, everybody else is benefiting at the same time. Because I’m sharing light. And so there’s people out there whose natural instinct or their worldview is, hey, I need to I need to develop myself, I need to help others because as long as I’m doing that everybody wins. And there’s other people who actually look out and they see somebody successful. And they think, well, they got a bigger piece of cake. So that means me and others are probably suffering. So that’s where I think it stops is in that just that disconnect, where some people really don’t believe they can be do and have more they believe its fate. They believe they’re limited to it. And that’s all they can have. And that’s not what we teach or what we believe we believe that you can develop yourself. You can create value, just in your expertise, your opinions, your knowledge, what you bring to the table. I mean, I have no question that the titans of business who’ve invented and created things, if everything was taken away from them, they could go do it again. Because it’s not what they invented that made them wealthy, it was the ability to create, to add value that made the difference.
David Ralph [42:57]
It’s astonishing, isn’t it because it is so simple in so many ways. But it is just it comes back to mindset again, you know, my mind has changed massively in the last six months since I’ve been doing this. Before then, the many, many years I fought that work had to be hard. And I fought the harder I work, the more I would get rewarded. And now I look back on it. And I realized That’s rubbish. It was just that I wasn’t playing to my strengths. I was doing stuff that wasn’t naturally me. And I was putting too much effort into it. I used to get home and almost crawl up the road and slide myself through the letterbox because I was too tired to actually use the key to get in. And now I’m doing this job. I could be doing it at two o’clock in the morning. And it’s like Rocket Power all over me because it’s just naturally kind of easy. It just flows through me. And that is that is mindset, again, isn’t it. And so many people think that they have to stay on that rat race, and they can’t have their cake and eat what you’re saying.
Tom Ziglar [43:57]
Right. And it’s a Not only is it a mindset and attitude to choose that, but it’s also really looking deep into what your skills and talents are. I hadn’t heard somebody explain it this way. Let’s just say that there’s 500, valuable skills and talents out there. And all of us have some level of skill and talent and every one of those 500 areas. Most of them, you know, we’re ones and twos and threes. Some of them we might be fives and sixes and sevens, we’re you know, we’re eight, sevens and eights. And our ability to move the needle to move the meter is about two points. And so when we pick a career where our talents have for, if we really study and work hard and bust it and everything else, we might be able to move our expertise and that skill or talent up to a six, which guess what it means that we’re never going to outperform somebody who was naturally gifted in that area. And they start off with a seven or an eight. And so what we’ve got to do is we’ve got to understand ourselves what our talent and gifts are, so that we can hone in on the sixes and the sevens and the eights that we already have, and try to move those to attend. Because that’s where we can excel. And so this project that you’re doing, what you’ve discovered is based on your experience, your gifts, your personality, your character qualities, you probably started at this particular thing at a seven or an eight. And now after 114 episodes, you’ve elevated that it would be difficult for 99.999% of the world to even after years of practice, get as good as you are at this one thing because it’s it’s right in the center of what you were designed to do is any sweet spot, isn’t it? Yeah, exactly.
David Ralph [45:49]
I love this conversation, Tom. It’s taking my mind in many different ways. So for the listeners out there, and they’re sitting on the train, and they’re going into jobs, but they don’t like they’re tolerating, as you say before, what’s what’s a good way of them changing direction is it simply us saying it’s down to you to find your passion. And that’s one of those phrases that you just hear it all the time and you want to punch back because there’s there’s they’re so tied up. I don’t know what their passion is, as we were saying, how does somebody actually make that momentum and start building their future?
Tom Ziglar [46:24]
Well, I’m going to give you two things a quote, and then a formula. Now, here’s the quote, I’m kind of a nerd. So this quote is kind of nerdy. But here’s the quote, your dreams are the edges of the puzzle of your life. Your Dreams are the edges of the puzzle of your life. So let me just ask you David, have you ever done a tabletop puzzle? Yes, I have. I
David Ralph [46:49]
used to love them.
Tom Ziglar [46:50]
Yeah. And where do you start?
David Ralph [46:54]
funnily enough, I know that the rules are to start from the edges. But I always used to start in the middle and work
Tom Ziglar [46:58]
out. There we go. There’s always one. Yeah,
David Ralph [47:02]
I don’t know why. But I I like to start from the center. And people used to say, you know, it’s easier from the outside always went from the outside in. But no, I used to do it the opposite way for some reason.
Tom Ziglar [47:11]
Okay. Well, for most of us, we like to start on the edges, right, because you got straight lines, you’ve got corners and it’s in, then you can fill it in. And you can actually get it done faster, it might be more of a challenge to work from the inside out. But when you start at the edge, well, our life and our dreams are the same way. If we start on the edge, if we write down our dreams and our goals, then there’s more power in that. And here’s the example that I use, there’s a book called True freedom written by a gentleman named Stephen Fry. And he talks about a story where some behavioral psychologists went into an elementary school. And in the school, the kids, the students, there were between six and 12 years old, they built the school. And they completed the entire school except for on the playground outside, they didn’t put the fence around it. And so when the recess bell rang, and the kids went out to recess, the behavioral psychologist watch them to see where they would play. Now imagine a huge school yard, right, so you’ve got concrete, right? Next, the building where the kids go out when it’s wet outside and raining, you know, they don’t want to get their shoes muddy. And then they have playground equipment right next to the school. And then you’ve got the big field where they play football and tag and all the different sports that kids play. Well, there was no fence around the yard. So when the kids went out to play, guess what they spent all of their time, on the concrete or next to the teacher or next to the playground equipment. Every day, every resource, every recess period, they go outside 100% of the spaces available, they only use 10% of it. At the end of the week, they put the fence up, they put the edge up, they put the border up around the playground, immediately the kids when they go outside, they use 100% of that territory.
And so this is a metaphor, your dream is an edge around your life, the playground equipment, the concrete, those are your experiences, your talent, all the things that have made you you. And it’s real comfortable to play on the playground equipment, you know, we don’t, we like that we don’t like change, we like to be in our comfort zone. When you start writing your dreams out, what you’re doing is you’re putting a fence out there an edge out there that extend your territory. And when you go to sleep at night, your brain actually actually goes through the process of figuring out how to get from where you are, to where you want to be. And so until you start writing and articulating your dreams down, it’s hard for your mind to take action on it. And so the first step that I would tell anybody who’s kind of stuck in that job is, you know, don’t don’t get so focused on what’s your passion or your purpose. Instead, just write down what your dreams are, you know, is it that vacation? Is it owning that house? Is it being out of debt? Is it providing college fund for your kids, whatever that is? Is it a business that you want to start? Is it you know, any of those things? So when you write those down, then your mind starts to go? Okay? That makes sense? How do I get there. And so once you get there, once you start putting those places in there, then you start getting closer to your dreams. And then here’s the formula, the formula is real simple. It’s attitude, times activity times skill equals performance, eight times eight times as equals P. So people say, Okay, what is performance? Well, it’s a combination of the right attitude, the right activities and the right skills. So if you want to do an internal audit, like if you look at mirror and you say, what’s my performance today? Well ask yourself this. What’s my attitude? Is it a one is it a two? So look at it this way, somebody who’s in a job brand new, not trained, scared, their attitudes, the one their activities, the one their skill levels of one to their performances one. first day on the job manager gives them a motivational speech says David, this is awesome. I’m so glad you’ve joined us, you’re perfect for the team because of you, we’re going to be successful, you’re going to love it here. Your attitude goes to a two because somebody believes in you feel like you found a home. Now your activities still a one and your skills still the one because you haven’t been told what to do. So two times one times one is to your performance is double just because your attitude is good. The next day you come in and they give you something to do we want you to make 25 calls asked a simple question anybody can ask it, you make those 25 calls. So now your attitudes to your activities to and your skills is still a one but your performance level is a for two times two times one is for the third day you come in, they give you some training, they give you some skills, they teach you how to ask leading questions how to get more information. Now when you do the job, it’s two times two times two, that’s an eight in performance, and that’s where the world stops. Because you see, for some reason people think it’s somebody else’s responsibility, to give them their own attitude to tell them what to do, and to tell them how much to do. But the true performers, the people who are below the curve, the people who change the world, they realize that Wait a second, my attitude is up to me. I’m going to go to three, I’m going to read the right kind of books hang out with the right kind of people listen to podcasts like this. That’s going to help me get my attitude to the next level. And then you know what my activity level? Yeah, the boss says to do this, everybody else is doing this. But I think I’m going to study hard, I’m going to figure out how much efficient activity can I do? How much work can I really do not just working harder, but working smarter, and then their activity level goes to three. And then their skill does the same thing, hey, they provided this kind of training on the job. This is what standard. But you know what, I can go online and I can research more I can study I can take courses on my own, I can actually go out and consult with the experts in this industry, I can raise my skill level to a whole nother level. Well, somebody who does those three things, their performance level is three times three times three, which is 27. And if you want to know why the top 5% in any industry out produce everybody else three, four, or five to one. This is exactly why because they’ve taken personal responsibility. They’ve gone the extra mile in their activity in their attitude and in their skill. And then here’s the kicker. If you have a negative attitude, then you put a negative in front of that first number. So guess what, if your attitudes a negative two and your activities and two, and your skills are two, then your performance is actually a negative eight. And that’s where statistically we know for a fact that if somebody is negative in the business, it’s cheaper for the business owner, to pay him to stay home and do nothing than it is to bring them into the office. So that’s the impact of activity. And this is the formula performance. So you have a dream, write it down, your mind will work on getting there and then look at your own performance formula and ask yourself, where am I? Am I a two or 3am I depending on others to motivate me? Or do I motivate myself.
David Ralph [54:41]
Love that. I’m going to play the words of Steve Jobs just before we put you on the seminar, Mike, I normally do this earlier, but you’ve been throwing nuggets of gold all the way through, because Steve Jobs spoke it back in 2005, about only being able to see your past when you look back and actually connect the dots. And I would be fascinated to get your spin on this. So I’m gonna by the words of Steve Jobs and then we’re gonna have a little chat.
Steve Jobs [55:03]
Of course, it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leaves you off the well worn path. And that will make all the difference.
David Ralph [55:37]
Did you have the same beliefs that Steve was talking about? But you have to follow through?
Tom Ziglar [55:42]
Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, when I look back at my, at myself and a younger version of me, I mean, my I guess the one thing i would i would i would tell myself is Boy, you know fail with gusto. Because if you if you do it with integrity and the right motives, step out there take the chance, because what I’ve learned is that anything worth doing is worth doing poorly until you learn to do it well. So fear of, of doing something wrong, that holds us back. That holds us back. And it keeps us from growing as fast as we can. And everything I’ve done. The more threatening it felt the more out of my comfort zone and felt the faster I grew. And because I did it with the right. motive and integrity. It wasn’t the disaster I thought it might be. So if there’s something in your life, you’re like, Okay, I want to be there someday I want to do that my young self, I would say, just do it. Just do it, make sure your characters and right place your motives are right, and just do it. And what you’ll learn in that process will propel you so much faster than you could have imagined. And usually, the end goal that you have in mind is not what you reach, it’s actually something better because you go as far as you can see. And then when you get there, you can see further, there’s other things that come up along the way. So it’s not the destination, that’s, that’s the ultimate, it’s the journey of the path that you’re on. You can’t tell where the dots are going to connect necessarily when you start but looking back, and that belief that they all do connect. That’s what makes the difference.
David Ralph [57:30]
So the last question before I send you on your way, do you think everybody can have a kick ass life?
Tom Ziglar [57:38]
Absolutely simple as by down to them. It is and there’s a choice you got to make. And that choice is this. The never let the circumstances determine your happy your happiness. And I’ve just got to tell you, I’ve met people who has lived through atrocities on every level personal family that you can imagine. And they look at you, you know, from a wheelchair from flat on their backs, you know, whatever their situation. And they’re glowing. I mean, they’re beaming with with with being completely happy and satisfied. Do they wish they were dealt a different hand in cards? Absolutely they do. But at the same time, they have found so much to be grateful for right where they are and they’ve made the choice A circumstances are temporary, but my attitude and the impact I can have on that can live on for generations.
David Ralph [58:39]
Tom, how can our audience connect with you, sir? Ah,
Tom Ziglar [58:43]
well, a couple places. I’m on Twitter, just at Tom Ziglar on Twitter, Facebook, we have the Zig Ziglar fan page, which has almost 2 million likes on and also have a Tom Ziglar fan page, I’m there as well. And then, of course, through our website at guru.com. That’s where all the good stuff is.
David Ralph [59:02]
We’ll have over links on the show notes. Tom, thank you so much for spending time with us today, joining up those dots. And please come back again when you have more dots to join up. Because I do believe that by joining up the dots and connecting our past is the best way to build our futures. Tom Ziglar Thank you so much. Thank you
David doesn’t want you to become a fated version of the brilliant self you are wants to become. So he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the eight pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life. Head over to join up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on join up dots.