Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic Joins Us On The Join Up Dots Podcast
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Introducing Wayfinders
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic joins us on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots Podcast
Today, we’re diving deep into ae captivating world, so imagine a voyage where innovation meets purpose, where digital landscapes are transformed into avenues of growth and empowerment.
Today, we unveil the extraordinary tale of Wayfinders, a beacon of light in the ever-evolving tech universe.
From their humble beginnings to becoming trailblazers of innovation, Wayfinders has been carving a path towards excellence.
Through the highs and lows, the triumphs and setbacks, you’ll hear first-hand how its become what it is today.
It’s a saga of determination, collaboration, and relentless curiosity that has led them to redefine the boundaries of possibility.
How The Dots Joined Up For Wayfinders
But Wayfinders is more than just a tech story; it’s a testament to the human spirit’s boundless potential.
It’s a reminder that even in the vast expanse of the digital landscape, the heart and soul of a community can flourish, connect, and leave an indelible mark.
Whether you’re an aspiring tech enthusiast, a seeker of inspiration, or simply someone eager to witness the power of dreams turned into reality, this is your compass to navigate your own personal journey.
So how did the company get off the ground and continue to grow, not only selling out each year but multiple years in the future?
Well lets find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots the founder of Wayfinders, Mr Mike Brcic
Show Highlights
During the show we discussed such weight subjects with the founder of Wayfinders such as:
Mike shares the humble beginnings of his first business which later struggle until growing to being in 45 countries.
Why it is so important to really niche down to find the true value that you can bring to your customer before you start building.
Mike breaks down the 5 c’s of his whole business and why its central to the success of Wayfinders.
And lastly……
Mike shares how he intentionally choices places off the beaten path to truly make things magical and memorable for his clients.
How To Connect With Wayfinders
Return To The Top Of Wayfinders
You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here – enjoy
Full Transcription Of Wayfinders Founder Interview
Intro [0:00]
Life shouldn’t be hard life should be a fun filled adventure every day. So now start joining up dots tap into your talents, your skills, your God given gifts and tell your boss, you don’t deserve me. I’m out of here. It’s time for you to smash that alarm clock. And start getting the dream business and life you will, of course, are dreaming of. Let’s join your host David route from the back of his garden in the UK, or wherever he might be today with another JAM PACKED episode of the number one hit podcast. Join Up Dots.
David Ralph [0:43]
Yeah, good morning, here and welcome to another episode. Join Up Dots. Well, today we’re diving deep into I think a captivating world. Imagine a voyage where innovation meets purpose where digital landscapes are transformed into avenues of growth and empowerment. Well, today we’re going to unveil the extraordinary Tao of one business, a beacon of light in the ever evolving tech universe. From their humble beginnings to becoming Trailblazers of innovations. They have been carving a path towards excellence through the highs and lows of triumphs and setbacks, you’ll hear firsthand how it’s become what it is today. It’s a saga of determination, collaboration, and relentless curiosity that has led them to redefine the boundaries of possibility. But it’s more than just a tech story is a testament to the human spirits. boundless potential is a reminder. But even in the vast expanse of the digital landscape, the heart and soul of a community can flourish, connect and leave an indelible mark. Whether you’re an aspiring tech enthusiast, a seeker of inspiration, or simply someone eager to witness the power of dreams turned into reality. This is your compass to navigate your own personal journey. So how did the company get off the ground and continue to grow? Not only selling out each year, but multiple years in the future? And is this the business that our guest has always wanted to create? Or just another dot towards where he wants to be? Well, let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only the founder of Wayfinders. Mr. Mike Brcic.
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [2:25]
Well, I appreciate the appreciate the fanfare there. And I’m actually curious if you are indeed in your garden, because you were sharing with me, just what a rainy summer it’s been in the UK.
David Ralph [2:37]
Yeah, I am actually at the back of my garden when no one can get me outside, I can see a lawnmower that died this morning. And it’s sunny. It’s shiny. It’s glorious. Today, we’re having a lovely time. How is it into winter at the moment?
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [2:52]
It’s wonderful. It’s a sunny day, when we’re done here, I’ll probably go work a little bit on my front porch, or I’m surrounded by a little bit of greenery as well. Yeah, we’ve been having quite a lovely summer.
David Ralph [3:03]
So the big question, Mike, and it’s a question that only you can answer I feel is should I mend for lawnmower? Or just go out and buy another one? I think that I should mend it. But my wife just says, oh, let’s go and get one. We need one.
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [3:18]
That’s that is a big question. You know, I guess I guess I would look, look at that question through two lenses. One, I don’t want I don’t want to put a lot more in the landfill in the landfill if I don’t have to. But the other lens look at it through is what is what is the investment of my time that’s required is, you know, is this a 15 minute fix? Or is it going to be me driving around town trying to find the part and then two hours of, you know, trying to fix it whatnot? And is that a good investment of my time, right? And so I’m always trying to think about how I invest my time. And if I’m investing in the things that matter. And, you know, for me, at least, if we have stuff that we that, that can be fixed, but we don’t really feel like it’s worth for us to fix we can, we can generally put it on our on our, in front of our house on the curb, and somebody’s going to come along and grab it kind of our neighbourhood there’s, there seems to be people just driving around looking for stuff to pick up. And yeah, I mean, you know, something like that, if I can keep it out of the landfill, and it can, somebody can extend its life, whether it’s me or someone else, then by all means go for it. But you know, if it’s gonna suck up half your day, is that how you want to spend half your day?
David Ralph [4:28]
You’ve answered it, you’ve answered it for me. I’m going to buy a new one. I’m going to buy a new one. And I’m going to call it Mike. There you go. So you are somebody who is an adventurer, a writer, an entrepreneur, a father, husband, traveller, food lover, it goes on and on and on. Let’s take you back into the early days. So you’re at school, you’re coming out of school, you’re coming out of college or wherever you did. Was it always where you were heading where you are now?
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [4:57]
Yeah, definitely not. In I’d be curious to meet some people who just left school and just landed right where, you know, they feel they should be and, and can stay there for 20 or 25 years.
David Ralph [5:12]
Mike, I found people that say that they knew from the age of five what they were going to be.
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [5:18]
Yeah, I mean, there are those people in there, they’re definitely in the minority and all the power to them. It’s a beautiful thing, I would say my, my journey has been much more circuitous. I left University with a degree in economics and history. And I knew, I knew I probably didn’t want to work in either of those fields, whatever that meant. And I decided I would just move west to the mountains of British Columbia, the Canadian Rockies, and I would be a ski bum for a year, and then I would figure it out later. And long story short, I ended up getting fired from my first three jobs. Realising that I really didn’t like working for other people, and that I probably needed to forge my own path. So I the first summer after I moved out west, I started my own company. The goal in the early days was simple. I just wanted to take people mountain biking on the local trails, in and around this town, where there was beautiful scenery of these beautiful mountain bike trails, more and more tourists coming in, in this in this trail network that was kind of a little bit difficult to navigate. And one thing led to another ended up expanding that company over the course of 24 years. By the time I sold the company, we were in, I think, 45 countries around the world. And it was a it was a beautiful ride, pun intended. But that, you know, that brought me to my current place and my current company with Wayfinders, where, you know, I really love the work that I do. And I’m and I’m deeply nourished and deeply fulfilled by it.
David Ralph [6:50]
So we’ve all startup businesses, no pun intended, either. They can be a pain in the bum. And we’ve cycles, you can easily get that so was it? Was it plain writing? Or was it a struggle? Because I always think when you look at a business that is based on community, and getting out and about an adventure, I think I’ve probably had, I don’t know, 30 people over the last 10 years. And I would say probably 20 of them couldn’t make money out of it. So how did you manage it? And was it difficult?
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [7:26]
Yeah, I wish I could say it was a smooth ride. I mean, maybe I don’t wish I could say I really enjoyed enjoyed all the learnings from the struggle, I didn’t necessarily enjoy the struggles while I was going through them. But you know, our first our first summer I had a partner for the first few years, our first summer, we had exactly one customer. And, you know, we had bought a fleet of mountain bikes, and we managed to generate enough revenue from renting those bikes to stay afloat. But we had one customer that summer for a guided mountain bike tour, and it was just a day tour. And I think he paid us $80, something like that. But that was that was all I needed. You know, that entire day, while I was guiding him, I just couldn’t believe that somebody was paying me to ride my mountain bike in this beautiful, you know, some of the most spectacular scenery on Earth. And that was that was, you know, that was all the all the motivation I needed. And you know, the next year, we had, we had triple digit growth, we had 100% growth, because we had two customers that that next summer, but it was actually it was actually in our was actually in our third year when we started offering week long overnight trips, that’s when things really took off. And then we managed to get some media attention and in a company really grew over the next few years. And then about our 10th 10th year my partner was long gone at this point, I think was year 11, I decided to expand internationally. Our first international trips, were in Peru, and then we did trips in Slovenia, and Croatia and Guatemala and New Zealand. And and that’s when things really took off and started expanding all over the world. But it was a it was a it was a long and torturous journey to get there.
David Ralph [9:04]
Well, yeah. What always interests me with these kinds of businesses is that I look at them from the outside. And I think brilliant, that’s exciting. That’s great. That’s what people want. They’re fed up with being in offices, they want to be out there getting fit, but there’s still a struggle to get going. Does it come down to marketing? Or does it just simply come down to people think they can do it for themselves? So why pay because we’ve all businesses that are near you get to a pain point. And an urgent pain point is easier to sort of make money from so where did it fall?
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [9:38]
Yeah, well, I mean, that was a constant topic of conversation in the office even you know, even as we expanded to, you know, hold a whole team and people all over the globe. It was it was really honing in on like, who are they of course, like you can, you know, you can go to a place like Utah was one of our destinations and Utah is one of the, you know, biggest mountain bike markets around In the world, and you can go to Moab or these other places where we’re in trips, and there’s, there’s tonnes of signage, lots of trail maps and stuff like that people could easily do it on their own, they can book their own accommodation. And in a location like that, you know, our conversation was, what is the value that we are bringing, and you know, what type of client would would appreciate the value that we’re bringing in. And, you know, some of those things were like local knowledge, we always use local guides, who knew that you know, lived and breathed and worked in the areas where they got it. And they knew those local trails, they could take them to the secret spots, not just the trails, but you know, the secret little locals Hangout, where they could have a beer afterwards and meet some local stuff like that. And so really kind of pushing that that angle. And also, of course, just the value of being able to show up and everything is taken care of, you don’t have to think about anything, you don’t have to make any decisions. But also you’re getting, you know, top level instruction from our guides, if you want to get better at mountain biking. But then also in other places like Nepal, you know, we had, we had an amazing 13 day trip in Nepal, you just you could not do that on your own, it would be, you know, we took people to some really remote places, there’s no signage, these aren’t really mountain bike trails, these are like footpaths, connecting villages and stuff like that. And it would be very easy to get lost. And of course, if you don’t speak the local language, which is, you know, in a lot of countries, such as Nepal, there’s not just the one main language, but all sorts of local dialects in each of these regions, and you just couldn’t do a trip like that. And so we actually ended up expanding a lot of those types of destinations like, like Nepal, and Peru and, and other places where, you know, you you, you just can’t do that on your own. And, and really focusing on the value that we bring there, which is access to an entirely new world that you could never do on your own.
David Ralph [11:50]
So you’ve moved on to Wayfinders. And then we’re going to jump back and forth on this. But we’ve Wayfinders has it become so much easier because of the learnings of the bike company? Did you understand what your customer was looking for? Earlier in the process?
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [12:09]
100%, I would say, you know, my current company is entirely not entirely but in large part based on all of the learnings with the previous company. And in many ways, I chose to do the, you know, the exact opposite of what I did with that company. And just to give you, you know, a few examples, in the final five, six years of that of that company, it was called sacred rides, it’s still, it’s still running today under a new owner, but I really pushed the push growth and you know, had my foot on the gas pedal, growing, growing our revenue, growing our locations, you know, all this kind of stuff, bringing on investors growing the team, it was, you know, it was it was I was very ambitious. And that ambition got me into a lot of trouble. Simply when you know, it’s very hard to grow a business that fast. And if you don’t have the right operations and systems and processes in place, things tend to break, you know, something that worked when you were doing 100 customers a year does not work at 1000 customers a year. And that became extremely stressful. I ended up you know, and I ended up I remember waking up one day and I was, you know, had to write a report to my shareholders. And then I had to look at spreadsheets for a couple hours. And this was all stuff that I really didn’t enjoy doing. And I just kind of, you know, asked myself some hard questions like, why am I doing this, this is not why I started this, I started this because I love mountain biking. And then I grew the company because I love travelling and combining mountain biking and travel is beautiful and wonderful. But I was spending my days just doing stuff I really didn’t like and that was simply because of I was pushing growth so hard. And so when I started Wayfinders, I started with the end goal in mind. And I said what kind of business do I want to run? And what do I want my week to look like my months my year. And and then I reverse engineered from there. And you know, also with the other business, I got into cashflow issues all the time, simply because when you’re growing revenue that fast, you tend to also grow expenses really rapidly. And then you know, and then sometimes you just you’re just so busy, you don’t even have time to look at the fine print the numbers, the business model, all that kind of stuff. And so I started Wayfinders with the end goal in mind looking at my business model, how do I want to structure this? I want to run two events a year. I don’t want any staff because I find managing staff stressful and not enjoyable. And how can I run this business so that it pays me a very nice living, but I don’t have to work too hard. I don’t have to, you know, manage people all this kind of stuff. And so it was very much you know, I wouldn’t have built the company that I built Now had I not gone through all the difficulties in all the learnings of their previous business and you know, I feel like with that first business I got many multiple MBAs in the process.
David Ralph [15:04]
So we’ve Wayfinders. Let’s explain what Wayfinders is, it seems to me, it’s a place where like minded entrepreneurs and driven individuals come together to feel a connection away from the day to day grind of building their own businesses. It’s a it’s a weight off. But it’s a challenge in a different direction. Would that be right? Yeah, I
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [15:30]
mean, I, you know, the main objective of Wayfinders is connection. And it’s not just for entrepreneurs to connect with other entrepreneurs, that’s certainly a primary part of it. But it’s also to give them an opportunity to connect with themselves, to connect with, you know, connect with purpose to connect with the natural world. And, you know, the primary delivery mechanism for that, if these is the spectacular adventures that we hosted around the world in these really remote places. And so on the surface, it kind of looks like it’s a travel company, but really, it’s a community. And it’s a, it’s an opportunity to really deepen connection in one’s life,
David Ralph [16:11]
what’s the emotional aspect of it, because this is something that interests me a lot in business, where people go into it for the money, because we’ve got bills to pay, and we want to have a good life. But then, when it really comes together, they realise that they’re gaining as much from the energy it gives them when they do for the financial rewards. So are you gaining a lot from these connections? Is this a business that views you up for bigger things?
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [16:40]
Oh, yeah, 100%. This, it is it is fulfilling, it is deeply nourishing, most importantly, it is it is a almost perfect expression of who I am in the world, and who I want to be in the world. And it’s, you know, aligned with my passions, my values, my beliefs, all of that I get to express through my business in a way that I’ve never, I’ve never done before. And, you know, if, if you were to ask me, you know, seven years ago, when I started this company, you know, design design your ideal business, what does it look like, I didn’t really, you know, I didn’t set up to start this business, it was kind of just a bit of an accident. But along the way, it’s become exactly, you know, exactly what I would have dreamed of. And I feel just so lucky, and so blessed to be able to say that, and it’s not, you know, it’s not perfect, not every day is not perfect, and but for the most part, everything, just feel like it flows from something more authentic and more aligned within me, rather than trying to be something that I’m not. And if I contrast that with my previous business, you know, those last six years of hyper growth, that was really fueled by just a need for validation, and you know, this hungry little ego that wanted to get a pat on the back from the world and say, Wow, you’re doing amazing things. And, you know, I wanted to be on the cover of Entrepreneur Magazine, we wanted to be in 150 countries, those weren’t really meaningful goals, they were, they were really just, you know, needing my ego stoked. And as I’ve managed to really explore that, and, and recognise my ego for what it wants and not be so driven for it by it. I can come at business from a from a much deeper and more authentic place and a place of service where my goal is to really serve my community and serve my customers and make their lives better. Rather than just, you know, feed my narrow, petty little hungry desires.
David Ralph [18:40]
Let’s say some words, and we’d be back with Mike,
Speaker 4 [18:42]
my father could have been a great comedian, but he didn’t believe that that was possible for him. And so he made a conservative choice. Instead, he got a safe job as an accountant. And when I was 12 years old, he was let go from that safe job. And our family had to do whatever we could to survive. I learned many great lessons from my father, not the least of which was that you can fail at what you don’t want. So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.
David Ralph [19:09]
Now, those words seem to really speak to what you’re doing and what other people are looking for. You might as well do what you love. And this disconnection, I think has become something that we all are seeking for even more because of the pandemic that we had in 2020 More than anything else. Do you see that Wayfinders flourish because people realised actually what they were missing at that difficult time.
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [19:39]
Yeah, I do think that plays a part. I mean, my company is busier and more successful than ever post pandemic than it was before it was quite successful before but you know, as you alluded to, I’m I’m my events are sold out until the end of 24 2024. Already, and I could probably announce some 2025 event And, and, you know, maybe not fill them up right away, but get them well on the way to being filmed, I think it’s a lot of that is because people are really feeling and this, you know, This predated the pandemic as well, there was, you know, epidemics of loneliness and crises of connection, and people just starved for real, authentic human connection. But of course, that, you know, exacerbated by the pandemic. And people are starting to recognise the value of that, and not only how nourishing it is, but also the professional value of it, the financial value of it, you know, all these other ways that, that, that nurturing and being intentional about one’s relationships pay off for us in the long run. And so, yeah, that definitely plays a part. And, you know, I’m also, you know, feeling, feeling very lucky and very blessed to be in an industry that I think, you know, maybe I’m being, maybe I’m not looking far enough into the future, but I think it is somewhat immune to the effects of AI and, and, and lots of people in various industries that are getting decimated by AI, because, you know, it’s making so many things easier, and making humans more replaceable. But I think if anything, over the coming years, people are going to value real, true, genuine, authentic human connection even more. And, you know, I don’t think that’s replaceable by AI anytime soon, that value of just face to face really connecting deeply and intimately with somebody. And, and so yeah, I’m, I’m excited for the future of my company, and just creating more impact in the world and helping more people live more connected lives. Now, before
David Ralph [21:41]
we move on to something I found fascinating. And it was the five c model. Your whole model of business is based on restoring connection based on these five C’s. So we’re going to be talking about give an overview for the listeners out there, what actually being a wayfind do is and what kind of events you run.
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [22:04]
So yeah, I can touch on that five seas model. So as I’ve mentioned, it’s, you know, the core of it is to help restore connection in the world and, you know, starting one person at a time, which is the only way I know how, but diving a little bit deeper into this topic of connection, what does that actually mean? And how do we do that. And so, I’ll go through each of those five C’s, in turn, it starts with connection to self. So really, you know, being able to understand oneself connect to something authentic, one’s core that’s beyond, you know, all the messages that we’ve been given over over the years about who we should be, or how we should be, or who we are really trying to dig down into that core and reconnect with something more genuine. The second one is connection to others. So you know, fostering and nurturing and, and deepening connections with other other humans. Third, see is connection with the natural world. So developing an intimate relationship with the natural world and wild places, I believe there’s a, there’s a tremendous value in that. The fourth see is a connection to calling or as I alluded to earlier purpose, connecting to something deeper in one’s place in the world, which doesn’t necessarily mean mean, need to be, you know, quote, unquote, one’s work, or how one earns earns their keep, that’s an ideal, that’s an ideal place to be. But you know, all of us have different gifts that we can share with the world. And, and it’s, you know, I try and take people through a process of discovering and uncovering what those are, and how we can bring those into the world. And it doesn’t, like I said, Doesn’t need to be one’s work, it just could be, you know, sharing one’s gift of presence, or sharing one’s gift of music, or whatever that may be. And then the final one is more esoteric one that I call connection to mystery. And it’s really just about connecting to this sense of interconnectedness that runs through the world. You know, whether it’s through, you know, these are, these are central to Buddhist teachings, but also, in quantum physics, we’re discovering, you know, the connection that runs through everything, and everything in the, you know, in the world is connected to everything else. And connecting to that, that sense of mystery and sense of something grander. And, you know, these are big goals, of course, and but we try and do what we can. And it’s my belief that if people can connect to these various forms of connection, they, they will live more nourishing, more fulfilling and happier lives. And if we can do that in the context, you know, go on that journey in the context of a supportive community that’s also going to hold you accountable, then all the better, right? It shouldn’t be a solo journey.
David Ralph [24:45]
So what do they get? What do they give, give us a taste of the adventures that are on offer for people through Wayfinders? Yeah, so
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [24:55]
you know, a couple of months ago I hosted a A group of about 20 people in southwestern Uganda. And this is a part of Uganda with thick jungles, but also these massive, you know, four or 5000 metre volcanoes. It’s a really spectacular part of the world. It’s also home, the, the, the jungle that our lodge was next to, it’s called Bwindi Impenetrable Forest. And it’s home to, I believe about half of the world’s mountain gorillas. And so, you know, over the course of the eight days that we spent together, we, it’s a big mix of things we had, you know, we had daily activities and adventures, you know, we were, we scaled a 4000 plus metre volcano together, and it was really physically challenging and demanding. But we also also take the group through various exercises, and so will often meet for two or three hours a day, you know, in circle, and we’ll have, or in small groups, and I’ll take him through various exercises and dialogues that will help them you know, help them self reflect, help them ask tough questions about themselves and about their lives. And also dialogue with others, we will, you know, we also spent time with the mountain gorillas, which is about his experience are inspiring a natural experiences you can have, in this world, I also, you know, there was lots of solo time for people to reflect in journal, and, you know, and explore these bigger questions on their own, but also in dialogue with others at other times. So it’s kind of this this mix of, you know, being really active, but also being very still, as well. And then also thrown into that was lots of interaction with the locals. So this rich cultural experience, where we spent very intimate time with some of the locals in this area. And part of that is, is just, you know, being exposed to these vastly different cultures, and, and vastly different interpretations of how to live a human life. And, and that, you know, that is very intentional, the locations that I choose, and the cultures that we spend time with and learn from, it’s because we, these cultures, I believe, have something to teach us and hopefully shift our perspective, away from this dominant narrative that we have in the western world about what it means to live a good human life and a successful life. And, you know, not that there aren’t very positive aspects of that, but it’s only one interpretation. And it’s easy when you’re in that, in that world, to think that that’s the only interpretation of how to live a human life. And when I expose people to this other, you know, we spent time last fall with, with the monks of Bhutan. And, you know, these are people who live very solitary, very contemplative lives, and this, you know, almost completely polar opposite to how the typical Westerner lives. But these are some of the happiest people I’ve met on the planet. And so when you spend time with that, it kind of opens your eyes a little bit and say, Hey, maybe, you know, maybe there is value in just sitting and being rather than, than just always doing. And hopefully, it shifts your perspective a little bit. And so, you know, that’s, that’s all kind of a mix of, of how I tried to design my events, and I put a lot of time and care and effort, you know, earlier you alluded to, to marketing a little bit, and I’ve always viewed, the best form of marketing is to, is to just deliver incredible value through your product or service. And if you can do that, you will get repeat clients, you will get referrals. And that is the, for me, at least, I’ve found that to be the best form of marketing, that, you know, that I’ve experienced, and also the most rewarding form of marketing. And so that’s where I put all of my focus and my energy, I don’t do any traditional marketing. And, and my repeat rate is about 80%. So,
David Ralph [28:46]
no, I agree with you a glimpse, and I’m gonna jump in there. I agree with you. Word of mouth marketing is the most powerful referrals from people that have been on there. Absolutely. But at the beginning, when people didn’t know where to find us, if you’re not doing marketing, and how are you getting anyone to find you? You know, because I must admit, I struggled to find Wayfinders because I didn’t realise there was a dash in Wayfinders. And so I was I was Googling left, right and centre. So if I knew you was coming on the show, and I was struggling to find you, how would people who might be your ideal customer that would jump all over this find you if you weren’t doing any marketing? Well,
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [29:30]
I’ll tell you about that little hyphen in the URL first. So a company website is way hyphen finders.com. And I actually reached out to the owner of wayfinders.com, no hyphen, because you know, just what you alluded to there. And I think the starting price was 25,000. Us and I managed to you know the lowest they would go was 20,000 and I just said this is really not worth it to me. I don’t I don’t need it for any reason or Not so you know, there you go. But I guess, you know, I’m I’m blessing that I haven’t had to do any traditional marketing. And so my my very first event, which was in September of 2017, in the Canadian Rockies, I really I, you know, I just reached out to people in my network and had a pretty good network of fellow entrepreneurs. And I’d been attending all these entrepreneurial events that I got, I got lots of value from but all of these events kind of followed a similar format where there was, you know, there’s a speaker on stage, and then a workshop, and then another speaker, and then a networking break in the hallway, and then maybe a lunch and then another speaker. And the value, the primary value I got was the connections that I made. But the format of these events was was lousy for that it’s very hard to connect with other people when somebody’s talking on stage. And so I wanted to create something with it with a focus. And the primary goal was for people, for entrepreneurs to forge deep connections. And so I just sent an email out to my network and said, Hey, I want to put on this five day event in the Canadian Rockies, all entrepreneurs, we’re going to be biking, we’re going to be hiking, and we’ll do some rafting, we’ll do some exploring. But we’ll also have lots of time to have some meaningful conversations, we’ll have a few pure delivered workshops, because there’s a lot of really smart people in the room. But the focus really is on is on connecting. And that event actually filled up very quickly. And the people who are on that event, just absolutely loved it asked me to do more of them. And it wasn’t really meant to be a business. But I could see that there was something there that people were really hungry for. So I can
David Ralph [31:37]
stop you today. Because something was jumped into my head is legalities. You know, you’re taking people up into the wields wilds of Canada, do you not have to have insurance? Do you not have to have all these kinds of things? The kind of obstacles that somebody starting a business like this might be thinking, oh, yeah, it’s too much to get involved in?
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [32:01]
Yeah, yeah, great question. Yeah, I definitely carry liability insurance. Depending on where you’re operating, you know, most places in North America or Europe, you’re going to be required to carry liability insurance. And for some of the, you know, for some of the areas where we operate, if we want to get a permit, we have to show proof of, of liability insurance. And sometimes it’s 1 million, sometimes you have to 5 million coverage, whatever. But then there’s other parts of the world, you know, typically more developing countries where it’s kind of more of a free for all, and they don’t really care whether you have insurance. And so then it’s, it’s really up to you, you know, do you want to carry liability insurance? Or do you, you know, do you feel that there’s a level of risk there. And so yeah, that is that is a hurdle to clear. And the the insurance world is getting, it’s getting harder and harder to navigate. And, and harder and harder to write, find insurance. And I know, you know, people, my friends in the travel industry, it’s very common to hear these stories of, you know, I was paying $5,000 a year, and then my insurance company came back to me and said, We have to raise your premiums, and we’re going to be charging you 20,000 a year, just because, you know, the insurance industry is getting hammered by climate change, and all, you know, all these other things, and the claims are getting higher and higher. And, and so it’s becoming harder and harder to insure a company. And it’s definitely a barrier. And, you know, depending on where you operate, it might be maybe a deal breaker, if you can’t find liability insurance, then you can’t get permits, and you can’t operate, or in other places, you could still operate, but then you have to decide is this beyond my comfort level, because if something happens, and somebody decides to sue me, and I don’t have insurance, I’m kind of, you know, I’m gonna be stuck between a rock and a hard place. For me, you know, I carry liability insurance, I just renewed mine last week. And it’s not a big, you know, wasn’t a big barrier for me, because I already knew that world and how to navigate it. And for most people, they could just, you know, they could reach out to a local insurance broker and say, Hey, I need some, you know, event insurance or liability insurance for this company, and I’m trying to start, and the brokers do the work for you. Right, they’re reaching out to the insurers and, and they’re trying to find you the best insurance for what you need. So it shouldn’t be too much of a hurdle, but it certainly can be.
David Ralph [34:16]
Now the other question, I think that people would be thinking because I’m thinking myself is with the whole planet in your hands. How do you know that these places are safe to take? Have you gone bear? Have You wrecked them out beforehand? Have you spent a couple of weeks in the vicinity? Or do you just watch YouTube channel and go there?
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [34:39]
Hmm. Well, I guess there’s a few answers. I have that question. One is that yes, I go and scout out every location before I run an event there. In most cases, I’ll do a lot of front end research and homework and I have have a big network of fellow people in the travel industry, and I can turn to them for for advice and say, hey, you know, I want to run an event in, you know, East Africa, any ideas, and somebody might say, Oh, go to Uganda and go to this particular region, and you got to check out this lodge. And then I’ll contact a lot, you know, a few lodges and, and I asked him questions, and I’ll do some homework. And then if I feel, you know, pretty good confidence level, that this is going to satisfy my needs, and safety and all that kind of stuff, then I’ll then I’ll plan up my scouting trip. But, you know, the other thing is, too, is that I intentionally choose places that are well off the beaten path, for a very specific reason. And I want to give people unique, unique experiences that they couldn’t have on their own. And so, you know, we that event in Bhutan, for instance, you know, we spent three days living at a remote monastery up in the mountains, and that monastery has never hosted groups before, but because of the nature of my connections, I was, you know, I was able to develop a connection to somebody in the country, who was then able to approach the monastery and say, Hey, are you interested in, you know, hosting this group, and this, this beer, and I’ve now been there three times, and this beautiful relationship has developed with that monastery with this, you know, really reciprocal wonderful relationship. And that’s, you know, that’s an experience that you could not do on your own, you couldn’t even do it with another travel company. And so I’m always looking for those types of experiences that are that are well off the beaten path. And I’m also willing to tolerate a higher degree of risk, because I believe, you know, reward tends to follow risk, if you’re just going to play it safe. And you know, do a do a, do a bus tour of, of, you know, of Italy, or something like that, you You’re, you’re probably not going to have experiences that are really that meaningful. But if I take you to the jungles of Uganda, if I take you to, you know, a remote village in Greenland, or you know, or monastery in Bhutan, it’s going to be so far from anything you’ve experienced before. And you’re probably going to have experiences and connections with locals that you’ve never experienced on a travel have experienced before. And it’s going to leave a indelible and positive mark on you and shift your perspective. And so I choose places that might not be, you know, the infrastructure might not be as good or there might be some level of risk to it. You know, in Uganda, for instance, the region we’re in is very safe, but we’re, you know, we’re five, six kilometres away from the, the Congo border. And there’s an active war that’s been going on there for, you know, many, many years. And that word doesn’t really crossover into Uganda. But you know, there was, there was one day, not this past trip, but before when we could hear gunfire, and it’s five, six kilometres away. And, you know, that’s obviously exposing my customers to a level of risk. And I try to communicate all that to them, and they can make their own choices. But it also opens you up to places that other people don’t experience. And you know, a lot of these places we can have them to ourselves. When we’re in Greenland, we didn’t see a single other traveller or tourist, for instance. So you can you open up to these really magical experiences that are hard to duplicate duplicate elsewhere.
David Ralph [38:24]
Is Greenland is the world’s largest national state park, I was looking at the other day, and I thought, wow, you know, it’s one of the biggest, well, it’s the biggest island is like Australia is the size of that, and it’s no one bear. So how do you plan these things? For for a listener out there thinking I’d really like to get involved? I’d like to connect with Wayfinders. I’d like to go, do they get a selection of choices? Or is it just, we’re doing this one? Yeah, fill up. And then you have to wait for the next one.
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [38:54]
Yeah, so I only only run two events a year, two adventures a year. So for 2024 For instance, I’m running an event in Ecuador in the end is and we’re going to be your we’re going to be scaling a 20,000 foot volcano there. In the fall in October, I’m running an event in Laos and Southeast Asia, both of those events are full, but every every spring, typically around March, I will announce my events for the following year. So next March, or next February, I’ll announce my events for 2025. And I’m just kind of working on where I’m where I’m gonna go in 2025. I will probably announce that a little bit sooner to you know, my my members, my existing members, my alumni, they tend to take about you know, if history is any guide, usually about 80 to 90% of the spots are just taken by my members and my alumni and there’s only a few open spots available. And usually those are taken through referrals, but every now and then I do take you know, if somebody goes to the website and applies, you know, I want to find and people who are a good fit for the community who are also a good fit for what it is that I’m offering. And that’s what they’re seeking in life. So people can always go to the website and apply. And they can also get on our mailing list. And I can notify them when we’re going to announce new adventures. And you know, that the model has been evolving. And so this year, I launched a new community membership. And so it was, it was an opportunity for people to take part in and connect with the community without going on one of the International adventures. So we have lots of, we have lots of in person events going on here in Toronto, but we also have online events, you know, connection calls, workshops, stuff like that, lots of opportunities to connect with other entrepreneurs. And then next year 2024, I’m also going to be launching a year long, you know, sort of a business accelerator, and sharing, you know, all of the things that I’ve learned over my 26 years as an entrepreneur, how to build businesses that are aligned, that are profitable, that are easy to run, nourishing, fulfilling, so I’m excited about that, it’ll be a year long. programme. So there’s different ways to get involved. And the adventures, you know, those are kind of the most exclusive, because there’s typically only about 5060 spots a year for those. And those are, those are also quite quite pricey as well, but the community and the business, you know, the business programme, those are much lower price point and easier to get into.
David Ralph [41:25]
And we’re never going to see like Orlando, Florida or anywhere like that there might
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [41:31]
I can’t imagine that, you know, my, my, my, my ongoing my running joke is when people people are asking, you know, where are you going to go next year? And I’ll often say, Well, you know, I’ve been exploring a few options. And I think, you know, I think I want to run an event at the Cleveland convention centre next year, which is, you know, kind of a giggle about that. But yeah, conventional, you know, conventional destinations are kind of unlikely, you know, I’m not going to run an event in Florida and probably, you know, not even in Costa Rica, because it’s, it’s just, it’s well on the beaten path. And it’s, and I want to take people just, you know, far outside of their, their, their norm and expose them to some really unique stuff. Yeah,
David Ralph [42:12]
it’s difficult to get away from people I was, I was on a Glasgow in Iceland with my wife, and it was just getting dark, it was freezing cold, bitterly cold. And we turned around, and it was a couple of people who lived in the same town as us. And so it’s very difficult to really have those unique opportunities to disconnect from the world and not have that world following you around somehow.
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [42:36]
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, travel is getting more and more popular. And, you know, the popular destinations, you know, my background is Croatian and Croatia has just exploded in the last 10 years. And so if you go to Dubrovnik, you know, it’s just shoulder to shoulder crammed full of people, and there’s cruise ships lined up off the coast. And, and that’s just not appealing to me. And I’ve, you know, I’ve been blessed to be to go to some truly amazing, spectacular place in the world. But you can take you in the most spectacular place in the world. And if it’s just jammed full of people, it’s just not that that interesting to me. And so I would rather you know, explore places where, where there aren’t so many footprints. And, and it’s, you know, it’s a double edged sword, right, because if, you know, if I’m, if I’m pushing the envelope and go into these more remote places, and then some of my customers, you know, might want to go back there or recommend it to others. And it’s kind of, you know, and then that place starts to get more popular, and eventually, it might get overrun. And we’re starting to see now, a lot of destinations that are putting, you know, putting caps on how many people can visit, you know, I went to Machu Picchu for the first time in 2006. And it was already quite popular, but nothing compared to what it is now. And they you know, I’m glad the Peruvian government has put a cap on that. But then that raises some questions around equity and access, right, you know, our, our is tourism going the way you can in the direction of you can only access places if you have enough money. And so if you look at Bhutan, for example, you know, you they have a very strict policy, and it’s all about high high margins and low volume. So you have to, you know, you have to spend a minimum of roughly $300 a day or 350 or something like that. And you have to do it through a government sponsored tour agency and all this kind of stuff. But it’s sort of, you know, you can’t go and backpack and stay in hospitals in Bhutan, for instance, because they just don’t want that. And I respect that because there’s lots of places that have gotten ruined by by budget travellers who, you know, come and spend very little money, but, you know, leave, leave a trail of devastation in their wake. So, these are, you know, tough questions about the future of tourism that have to be answered. And, and questions that have to be asked.
David Ralph [44:55]
Yeah, well, we have a lovely couple of listeners from Peotone, who’s Jing Chou. Who messages the show? So she’s out there listening at the moment and, and I saw the last Transformers film, and they were fighting in Machu Picchu. So the Peruvian government haven’t stopped that much going on. If I can film a filmer movie there, so yeah, yeah, go figure. Anyway, this is the part of the show that we’ve been building up to it. And this is the part that really ties up with your whole journey. We call it the Sermon on the mic, but it’s when you get a chance to go back in time, and speak to your younger self. And if you could go back in time and speak to young Mike, what advice would you give him? Well, we’re gonna find out
Speaker 5 [45:39]
here we go. With the best bit of the show, sir, man on the mic, man.
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [46:01]
Lovely little bit of music there, I was just kind of sinking into that and enjoying it, you know, if, you know, it depends a little bit on whom I’m speaking to, but if I, you know, if I was speaking to my young self just coming out of university, and what advice might I give to that person? You know, I think I think, to my current moment, where I just feel very comfortable in who I am, and I don’t feel the need to impress any anyone, or need any validation from other people, you know, I want of course, I want to be loved by the people around me, and I want to love people back. But, you know, how I act in the world and the work that I do, and, you know, most of my actions in the world are not, are not coming from a place of I need needing validation from other people. And when I look back to my younger self, so much of so much of what I did was in a quest for that validation from other people in a quest for significance, and people needing, you know, feeling a need for people to tell me I’m okay, or I’m a good person, or whatever that might, that might be. And that’s a, it’s a, that’s a tough way to live in. And it’s kind of an insatiable thing. And, you know, if you’re living from that point, it’s, it’s very hard to get the level of validation that you need. And I’m, you know, I know, a lot of entrepreneurs who have grown these incredibly successful companies, you know, eight 910, figure companies even, and, and it’s just this never ending quest for more and more and more. And, you know, I asked them, like, when are you going to be satisfied? And, and they often can answer that, and they think, Well, no, I’ve just gotta get to the next level, and then, you know, then I’ll get what I want out of this. And I, you know, for me, right now, I just want to, I just want to live a life where I can contribute value to the people around me, and surround myself with some good people that I really enjoy spending time with. And if I could, you know, talk to my younger self and say, Hey, you’re good enough, just the way you are. And you know, you don’t need other people to validate you, you can validate yourself, and just, you know, focus on spending time with people that you love spending time with that are meaningful to you, and doing work for the sake of impacting other people and providing value to their lives rather than, you know, serving your own hungry needs. And I could have saved myself a lot of anguish along the way, I think.
David Ralph [48:30]
So Mike, what’s the number one best way that our audience can connect with you and your business? Yeah, through
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [48:36]
the website is, is probably the best way, way hyphen, finders.com. And, and also, they can go to my substack, I write on substack, which is Wayfinders, no hyphen.substack.com. And I’ve taken a little bit of a break from the summer, but I’m going to ramp things back up again and doing just doing I do long form writing. And I write about human connection and topics that are a value to entrepreneurs. And I’m going to be ramping that back up again. So if people want to check it out and subscribe, I’d be very, I’d be very happy. I enjoy writing and providing value to people through my writing
David Ralph [49:11]
the links on the show notes as well. Mike, thank you so much for spending time with us today, joining up those dots. And please come back again, when you’ve got more dots to join up. Because I do believe that by joining up those dots and connecting our past is always the best way to build our futures. Mike, thank you so much.
Wayfinders Founder Mike Brcic [49:29]
Thank you, David. It was a pleasure to join you in your garden.
David Ralph [49:32]
Okay, that was Mike from Wayfinders. And it’s his latest project that brings together all these loves adventure travel, beautiful places, amazing food, and the course connecting with other inspiring entrepreneurs. So you can go over to wayfinders.com with a dash a hyphen in the middle and find out more but until next time, you stay sexy of course and we’ll see you again. You look after yourselves. Cheers. See ya. Bye
Outro [50:00]
That’s the end of Join Up Dots. You’ve heard the conversation. Now it’s time for you to start taking massive action. Create your future create your life is the only life you’ve got. Will we’ll be back again real soon. Join Up Dots during the gods Join Up Dots, Gods Jolina Join Up Dots
