Zachary Babcock Joins Us On The Steve Jobs Inspired Join Up Dots Podcast
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Introducing Zachary Babcock
Zachary Babcock is todays guest joining us on the Steve Jobs inspired Join Up Dots podcast.
He is a man who is an entrepreneur, business coaching and ex-prisoner who has turned his life around spectacularly.
As the founder of Underdog Empowerment, he teaches underdog entrepreneurs to launch, grow, and monetize top shelf passive income businesses and personal brands.
But it hasn’t been easy and as he says “I had to learn the hard way as I began building my business.
It was time to get to work when I got out of prison on October 2nd, 2014.
It definitely wasn’t easy.
I got into entrepreneurship because I didn’t have many options, plus I liked the idea of betting on myself.
How The Dots Joined For Zachary
However, it was a struggle, and I barely got by. I did network marketing for 2 years, made almost $2k a month within my first 6 months, but that just wasn’t my thing.
My business crumbled and I left after 2 years.
At the very beginning of 2017, I became a ‘life coach’. I didn’t make a single penny or help anybody as a life coach because my messaging was a hot mess.
And like everyone just starting out, I sucked.
Every time I tried to collaborate with anyone, nobody took me seriously.
I was just some ex-convict turned entrepreneur afterthought that nobody gave the time of day to. “Who is Zachary Babcock?”
But nowadays things are looking very much different as his profile and business continues to grow month on month.
So what has made this platform so successful, when the web is full of similar ideas that never got off the ground?
And is this is lifetime legacy or just a stepping stone to what is in his heart and mind?
Well let’s find out as we bring onto the show to start joining up dots with the one and only Zachary Babcock
During the show we discussed such deep weighty subjects with Zachary Babcock such as:
Zachary shares how he struggled so much with creating a marketing strategy due to the confusion of his personal branding. Once he got clear on who he is, the business exploded.
Why it is so important to really believe in your product and the value that you are able to provide. If you don’t then you will never see that value come back to you.
Zach shares how he is developing multiple incomes through his business, whilst never losing track of his key focus/
We discuss why so many people who come out of prison aren’t actually ready to change their lives. In fact they need help to actually want the change to occur in the first place.
Zachary Babcock Books
How To Connect With Zachary Babcock
You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here – enjoy
Interview Transcription Of Zachary Babcock Interview
When we’re young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling. Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here’s your host live from the back of his garden in the UK, David Ralph.
David Ralph [0:26]
Yes, hello, and good morning to you, my young. Thank you so much for being here with the Join Up Dots show. Again, really, you know, you’ve been with us for over six years now. And some of you have listened to literally every single episode so I applaud you. I don’t think I’ve even done that. Well, today’s guest joining us on the show is a man who is an entrepreneur, a business coach, and an ex prisoner who has turned his life around spectacularly as the founder of underdog empowerment. He teaches underdog entrepreneurs to launch grow and monetize top shelf passive income businesses. And personal brands, but it hasn’t been easy. Oh, no, he hasn’t. And as he says, I had to learn the hard way. As I began building my business, it was time to get to work. When I got out of prison on October the second 2014 it definitely wasn’t easy. I got into entrepreneurship because I didn’t have many options. Plus, I like the idea of betting on myself. However, it was a struggle, and I barely got by I did network marketing for two years, made almost two grand a month within my first six months, but that just wasn’t my thing. And my business crumbled. And I left after two years now and the very beginning of 2017 I became a life coach. I didn’t make a single penny or help anybody as a life coach because my messaging was a hot mess. I nearly laughter and like everyone just starting out, I sucked every time I tried to collaborate with anyone. Nobody took me seriously. I was just some ex convict turned entrepreneur after boat but nobody gave the time of day to but nowadays things are looking very much different as he profile and business continue to grow month on month. So what has made these platforms so successful when the web is full of similar ideas that never got off the ground? And is this his true lifetime legacy or just a stepping stone to what is in his heart and mind? Well, let’s find out as we bring on to the show to start Join Up Dots with the one and only Zachary Babcock. Good morning Zachary. How are you, sir?
Zachary Babcock [2:26]
Hey, what’s going on? David? I’m fired up to be here. That’s quite an intro. You did there
David Ralph [2:30]
is great to have you here because you are somebody that has got a spectacular storey of turning around. We get so many people who come on the show or pitch to come on the show. And they say, Yes, I was in my corporate gig. I got bored and now I’m doing this. You really turned your life around. Now. I don’t want to dwell too much on the dark times in prison. But was it the making of you?
Zachary Babcock [2:56]
Oh, man, absolutely. I wouldn’t Change none of it because it really forged a strength of character and mental mental toughness Absolutely.
David Ralph [3:07]
Is I couldn’t go to prison. I know I would end up with somebody bitch, I know that I would be trapped, like, you know, in some cell with some big hairy man, I wouldn’t be able to fight my corner. I don’t think
Zachary Babcock [3:21]
they kind of hype it up a little bit more than what it’s made out to be. But it’s definitely not the ideal place to live, but I think you’d be right.
David Ralph [3:27]
So which one I am dwelling on it a bit here. I said I wouldn’t. But which one were you in? And why were you in there?
Zachary Babcock [3:33]
Yeah, I was in Missouri Department of Corrections in the United States. That’s the state that I live in. And I was in there. mainly just for being an idiot. I was a knucklehead. I didn’t have any chief aim purpose in life. I went out when I was 17. with a couple of friends and we were just, we were is more out of boredom than anything else. And we were stealing from cars and whatnot and just being idiots and we caught some cases, but after that, then I started using heavier Drugs and then I turned into like a full blown criminal for a short period of my life.
David Ralph [4:05]
So I said, was he peer group? was it? Was it because of the surroundings? If you were, I don’t know in Beverly Hills, for example, do you think your life would have been very different?
Zachary Babcock [4:17]
probably would have definitely been very different growing up there been I grew up in Ferguson, Missouri, which doesn’t have the Best Rap with the whole Michael Brown situation that happened, but it’s not as bad as the media hypes it up to be. So it definitely would have been different. But I take full responsibility for for land and myself in prison. I also take full responsibility for getting myself out.
David Ralph [4:38]
What I want to talk about is, first of all, your messaging. This is why I laugh because it said in the introduction at the very beginning of 2017, I became a life coach. Now, that’s the first thing but I laugh at because when I started Join Up Dots, for some reason or other I got sucked into being and I’m doing those little quality things with my fingers and Life Coach. And I was so ill prepared because I didn’t have the x suppose the strength, I just felt like, Oh, just pull yourself together. It was just, I was surrounded by moaners constantly all the time. And it made me so unhappy. Now, I know why that occurred, it was because my messaging wasn’t right. And people didn’t know what I was offering. And so they kind of just assumed that this was where I was going. Tell us about your role into that. Okay, was it a conscious decision? Or was it just something that you thought, I need to do something, I’ve had some experience, I can share it with people.
Zachary Babcock [5:40]
years, kind of more, more, the latter. I felt like, Hey, you know, I’ve been through some, through some stuff in my life, I could probably help out some people as a life coach or whatnot. And so I tried doing that, because I was I was done sick and tired of network marketing and I was done with that industry and I wanted to go and create my own thing and I Man, David, I literally like it, like I said, didn’t make a single penny or help a single person just because my messaging was all over the place. I didn’t know anything about marketing. It was just yeah, I mean, it was it was a good experience because it led me to my effect, infatuation with human human nature with psychology and just really becoming a student of that, which also helped me with my marketing later on down the road.
David Ralph [6:24]
And marketing is easy if you’re targeting the right people. And I say this to so many of my clients that come through, and I say to them, if you have got a Manchester United shirt, are you going to be able to sell it to a Liverpool supporter? It’s highly unlikely, so go where the Manchester United supporters are. But in the online world, people don’t seem to drill down enough into where their contingent their followers are, and then I end up marketing to people but just never going to buy it and it’s so obvious. Do you see the Same Zachary. Yeah,
Zachary Babcock [7:02]
if, if you don’t mind I could kind of share what was the game changer for me? What kind of got me to break through?
David Ralph [7:08]
You share? It’s a podcaster This is what we do.
Zachary Babcock [7:11]
Awesome. Yeah. So before I started getting really serious about studying psychology and human nature and marketing, I was trying to I would, I would put on this fake and a front of like I was this positive person all the time and that my life was so positive and, and I can help you always be happy and let’s be real. We’re human beings. We’re not always happy. We have all these emotions for a reason, because it’s literally impossible not to feel those emotions. And so when I got really clear, for my personal brand, you know, you got companies like McDonald’s, Walmart, apple, you know, the biggest brands in the world, Coca Cola, they can go and create a customer Avatar and be that Ideal to that avatar because they’re a company brand. But if we’re talking about personal branding here and the word being personal, you can’t just create this fake imaginary customer Avatar and then try to be the ideal to that avatar. If it doesn’t align with who you really are. So what really, really changed the game for me was when I quit faking about who I was and just was me and started speaking to who I am and who I was yesterday. That’s when things really started to change for me.
David Ralph [8:29]
I once again I agree with you, Zachary. My my big moneymaker through Join Up Dots now. It took me by surprise, really, because I was creating online courses, similar kind of things that people have done before and I was teaching people how to podcast and most of it, I still do because people want it. But my big moneymaker was people interested in how I operated and it was my life was the thing. So I operate Join Up Dots in such a tight way. Well, I have so much free time and stress free. People kept on saying, well how are you doing that? How are you doing that? Now as you’re saying, once you get that congruent message between the actual personal branding and the pain point of other people it starts support together quite easily doesn’t it?
Zachary Babcock [9:21]
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely man it is kind of like for instance like so with with me like I was like, Who am I you know, I want to x comment like Well, yeah, but you know, you’ve got out now you’re way past said, All right. You’re an underdog. Okay. You’re an entrepreneur. All right. You’re an underdog entrepreneur. Alright, so what is how do you feel? Well, I get pissed off when people don’t don’t take me seriously and they’re like, count right? writing me off right out the gate and they they don’t think that I’m making my amount anything. But none of that matters because I’m committed to figuring this thing out and to winning and getting that respect that I crave. Okay, there it is. Right. There, that’s that’s your, that’s who you are. And that’s who you can relate with. And that’s the type of message you need to be putting out and helping people get to the next level in their passive income business.
David Ralph [10:10]
Now, there’s a big competence piece that people have to go through before they commit to anything. And I’m sure although your message is perfect for you, there’s a lot of people that will put a foot into the water and then not really do but commitment that brings the results. And I’m sure you’ve found this a lot of times where people will work with you. And but when you speak to them afterwards. Yeah, I’ve been a bit busy or I haven’t quite done beers are quite done, but and it can bring you as an entrepreneur down because your results tie up with their results. How do you get past that? How do you build that? That attainment metric, that means that when you’re not actually holding somebody’s hands, they’re still getting the results that you’ve given them?
Zachary Babcock [10:57]
Yeah, and this is something that What was running into a problem early on when I first started getting success with with actual consulting, and wait one way that I figured out that would be to give specific actionable items before we move to the next step with a deadline, and then maybe even include incentives like, I boom, if we get this done by then, not only, like for instance, like I help people launch their podcasts and get them going and help them, monetize it and grow it. I’m like, okay, so if we get this done by this date, you get your work done. Here’s where you go to get that we get all this taken care of. And we get you launched by October 10. Not only are we going to you know, have your podcast we’re going to get it ranked up in iTunes, but I’m also going to interview you on my podcast. And then that I noticed by in creating incentives like that and you can get creative with whatever your business model is. That will help push the needle forward but also given them Clear specific action items for them to handle with a date a due date.
David Ralph [12:05]
As people are lazy online, it blows me away how lazy people are and some of the stupid excuses that I used to get. Now I don’t get any because I work with the right people. And this is the big piece of the puzzle as well for the listeners out there. And I think maybe exactly, you might have an opposing view or you might agree, but you’ve got to go through that low price journey before you find that real good customer that will pay you for your services. Turn up on time, do the work and make it easier. Yeah,
Zachary Babcock [12:42]
it was funny when I first started I was I was scared to like charge too much because I was like, Well, I don’t know if it’s, you know if this is good or not. And then everybody kept saying like, dude, you are an idiot. You need to be charging way more than what you’re you’re you’re doing right now. I mean, like you’re literally given a This away, and you’re even producing these few plugins like you need in, I get it, you know, maybe you know, in the beginning is hot, you might have a for me and it was like, Well, I don’t know if it’s if I should charge that much, you know, maybe the people won’t, you know one and if I charge this much but, you know, you’re there’s like a cesspool of people that are charging ridiculously low prices. And usually the value on the other end is not match it reflects the price is probably even lower than what they’re charging. And so if you have a really if you can, if you’re confident, and what you do, and in your skill sets that you’ve you’ve developed, and you know, you can deliver results, charging a premium will actually position you a lot better in the marketplace.
David Ralph [13:43]
Great Agree, Agree. How do we get the listeners to buy into that, as I say, do you have to go through that journey? Because it seems like everybody does. I certainly went through that always little way but we can transition the listener from were sitting there thinking right I do a six Mum coaching session and of course, the $500 to us the say to them 25,000 25,000 bang done.
Zachary Babcock [14:10]
Yeah, I mean, here’s the deal. Like, for me, and I think this might be helpful, like, you have to really believe in what it is you’re selling. So like if you’re scared to sell mostly like, well, I’m scared sales mega sales. Well, it’s if that’s the case is because you don’t believe in your product or service enough to sell it. If you believe in it. 100% You can’t wait to talk to people about it. I know that’s the case with me. You know, I’ve done things before where I wasn’t confident what I had because I hadn’t developed the skills necessary to deliver the results. And so in those cases, yeah, I was I was scared to sell him and, and rightfully so. But if you actually do it the right way by developing the skills and being able to deliver on those and you believe in that product and know that you can get that transformation That result that benefit that your ideal customer is in need of, then you’ll have all the confidence in the world, and you won’t feel awkward about selling or asking for higher prices.
David Ralph [15:13]
Let’s listen to some words now. And then we’re going to be back with Zachary Babcock.
Unknown Speaker [15:18]
The way through the challenge is to get still and ask yourself, what is the next right move? not think about, Oh, I got all of this stuff. What is the next right move? And then from that space, make the next right move, and the next right move and not to be overwhelmed by it. Because you know, your life is bigger than that one moment. You know, you’re not defined by what somebody says, is a failure for you. Because failure is just there to point you in a different direction.
David Ralph [15:49]
Now, I spend a lot of my time talking about myself, sir, as you probably do, how you were podcast hosts, we have a lot of time to fill on the air and something that I can look back kept my business and even now I’m still developing it and fine tuning it was the lack of as I call it a value ladder where you market higher and higher prices be dependent on the person that’s actually coming in to your sales funnel on your own business. I can’t see that. Really screaming out me I can’t see is evident, but you have got a multi sort of directional value ladder of products. Is it subtle? Can I just not see it?
Zachary Babcock [16:30]
Yeah, that’s great question. So I like to be just, I like to just be straight up with people. So I got out of prison five years ago, five years and one day ago, exactly. October was at the time of this recording, October 2 2019 or 2014. And for over four years, I didn’t do it. I struggled. I didn’t make any money. And it was because I had to develop these skills that were valuable to the marketplace. You know your your skill sets. value, the market will always determine that. And so I didn’t make any money but this year in March is when I actually broke through. And I’m like literally less than an inch away from breaking six figures in the last six and a half months or so. But before that didn’t have anything like it was a, there was times where I literally wanted to run my head into a brick wall, trying to figure figure out how to how to generate revenue for my business and to provide for my family. And so yeah, we we got this year and yeah, there is a very important I know, it’s important to have multiple offers. Right now I’m just scaling out the current one where we help people get started, but we also have a backend on that where we produce our podcast for them. So that’s kind of like the ongoing but we’re actually getting ready to add a membership model to where, you know, clients that actually go through our programme that can continue to get ongoing support, or we do like once a month or once a week and we haven’t implemented it yet. q amp a where they hop on zoom and actually get their questions answered right there in spot cuz you know, a lot of people will Go through the programme and get all this great information and get their podcasts rolling. But you know, you’ll you’ll hit those peaks and then eventually you’ll run into a plateau again, and it’s nice to have that ongoing support. So that’s something that we’re currently working on.
David Ralph [18:13]
Yeah, for the listeners out there, what we’re talking about here is having multiple income streams. So it’s not one size fits all. And so many of your businesses out there will fall into this trap of basically, just assuming that every person that lands on your website is going to be right for your product at that time. And of course, it’s not the case in life. We go into shops, we have a look at stuff, we pick it up, we put it down we leave, you’ve got to be thinking about how you can transition that interest into a deeper awareness to a need through a value ladder. And once you get that Zachary, your business is really I wouldn’t say it’s it’s firing on all cylinders. I think it’s under control and I think it takes away the guesswork or whatever. happening to the traffic because you are naturally moving them to where you want to be. Would you agree?
Zachary Babcock [19:06]
Yeah, absolutely. And the funny thing is, man I haven’t even touched paid advertising yet, which is obviously something that I need to be doing. Soon we’ve gotten the offer proven, like let’s be real. If if you’re not doing at all, all real businesses do paid traffic that’s the real businesses run off of that. We’ve been fortunate enough to be able to produce what we’ve done organically up to this point. I think it’s I think it was smart though doing it this way because it gave us time to really dial in this offer and make sure that it’s that it’s converting and that you know if we can consistently pump out these numbers organically, when it when it comes time to turn on these paid ads, which I will be hiring somebody else to work is it a matter of analytical? Yeah, some kind of kind of guy but then it will be you know, we’ll see some really killer results.
David Ralph [20:00]
That’s a key thing as well, isn’t it where people think they need to be a master of everything. And, you know, once again, you know, I’ve gone through this route where I tried to study Facebook ads and Google ads and all that and you get it up and running. You don’t get the results because you’re not the expert. You don’t know it. You really, I’m now in the point Zachary. But I podcast and literally, that’s all I do. I podcast and all my traffic comes from that because I know that that’s where my skills are best suited. Now, I don’t actually do any paid traffic, but I agree with you totally. Because I think Dan Kennedy, the marketing guys said that their business that will win is the one that can pay the most for the customer or something like that. And so if you’re struggling along without any money in your business, you’re going to struggle you’ve got to find some kind of income stream to be able to bring in a point of investment back into your business and that is paid traffic.
Zachary Babcock [21:00]
Yeah, I couldn’t agree with you more David.
David Ralph [21:02]
Oh, that’s good and it’s not you it’s nice because I live in a house full of women and nobody agrees with you could you could you could you move in for a while why
Zachary Babcock [21:12]
we might have to make that happen because I’m kind of in the same boat separate my twin boys but other than that, yeah, so women,
David Ralph [21:18]
but my wife wouldn’t like my wife doesn’t do beards and you’ve got a spectacular beard. It’s um how long did it take you to grow the beard because I have a bit of beard envy I the biggest my beard goes is you know when I sort of werewolf is just about going through the change and as they’re predominantly human. That’s the kind of thing that I have
Zachary Babcock [21:43]
I got you I got a friend that’s kind of gets like the little patches you know here and there. But yeah, the beard right now it’s down to my almost down to my to my chest right now. It’s, we start growing. I started growing in this in the beginning of December last year, so almost a year.
David Ralph [22:00]
You can do anything count, you may you can turn your your head or anything, and it just occurs. Now,
Zachary Babcock [22:06]
one of the one of anything but anything but Facebook ads.
David Ralph [22:10]
Yes, yeah, I can see that. Now one of the things that when I looked at it, and you sort of asked to come on the show, and I thought to myself, why underdog entrepreneurs? And then I thought to myself, now this is clever, because he is, as you say, an ex convict, it’s not hidden, and you’ve been in prison. Now, it almost made me think that your target audience were ex convicts. And then once I thought about this, I thought, well, that’s even more brilliant because you’ve got, you know, how many in prison waiting to get out to need that opportunity? Is that something that you actually target? Or is that something that you’re sort of moving away from helping people to transition from that situation that you were in to actually building their own sort of income and passive income streams?
Zachary Babcock [22:57]
That I love this question, so that was when I was doing a life coaching thing. And what I quickly found out were two things. One, most people coming out of prison aren’t ready to change it, let’s just call it like it is, you know, some of them are still stuck in their ways, and they’re going to go back and do the same thing and there’s nothing that you could do to help that person until they’re ready. And I was there myself and sat until they’re actually ready and then to they don’t have money. So here’s what I do now. What I do now is when I mean underdog entrepreneur, that could literally be Elan Musk is an underdog entrepreneur because he’s has this crazy dream of getting us to Mars and the odds of him making that happen are slim but you know, he’s but he’s got billions of dollars, but he’s still like an underdog in that aspect. So what I classify underdog entrepreneur is anybody with grandiose vision, but they got all the odds stacked against them, everybody’s counting them out there even laughing at them, but it doesn’t matter because it all that noise that they’re hearing and all these people that are out in them only feels their fire more. And they’re committed to winning to levelling up and getting that respect they crave. But the cool thing, though, that I’m doing is that we’re already already begun is we hire ex convicts coming out of prison, not all but the ones that are serious about turning their life around. And we give them a job at our agency and they begin to learn digital marketing and online marketing. And they start developing these skills may also have to read books that we assign them that are going to develop them as their as a person and their character. And then for the guys that are cut out to be entrepreneurs, you know, they’ll be able to fly out of the nest, they won’t need us that long, they’ll be able to go do their own thing. And then for the guys and gals that are not cut out to be an entrepreneur because not everybody is then they can continue to work for us and can get paid raises or whatnot because one of the main struggles with people coming out of prison is you did that to yourself. But after you get a felony that’s on your record for rest of your life and people will not hire you here in the United States. It falls around for them. rest of your life. So that’s a big problem in our judicial system is just a joke. The recidivism rate is our skyrocket is it’s, it’s insane, it’s clear indicated that it’s not working. So our goal is to provide those resources that aren’t currently offered in the system, that’s going to help people not be dependent on the system to be able to keep them out. And our ultimate goal is to get the recidivism rate down to 9%. or lower. And I know that’s a crazy, crazy goal. But just like Steve Jobs, and I know this probably resonate here with your audience, the ones that think they’re crazy enough to change the world are the ones that do and that’s our goal, and we’re sticking to it.
David Ralph [25:34]
So why is that not front and centre on your platform? Because to me, that is powerful. That’s a mission that’s a legacy and on your your website, but I’ve looked at it’s, it’s very professional looking, but it doesn’t scream that you are changing lives.
Zachary Babcock [25:53]
And that’s good feedback. And you’re right, you’re I mean, you’re absolutely right. And Matter of fact, I’m glad that you said it because we’re coming Going over complete website makeover right now with Mike young and his team that are currently doing it for us. And we can actually put that in there and you’re right man that needs to be forefront front. Yeah,
David Ralph [26:11]
it’s gotta be right at the centre because anybody who’s listening to this podcast today, more often than not, they will know somebody that has bought on hard times, or they have got themselves into a situation and whether it’s gone into prison or wherever there’s a mindset of victim. Now I was speaking to a guy who ran a prison in Kentucky, I think it was a few years back, and I remember him distinctly saying but the majority of people in prison were just people that made one silly mistake but then they weren’t bad people. They just got into a situation situation and they made one bad mistake. And that bad mistake follows them around. Now if you have got that front and centre but you are actually going to help them a raise back and rub out that saying On their their record. That is, as I say, that is something that actually I can feel. feel the passion inside me going because I think this is bigger than one man. This is something that could change and create a movement across the world.
Zachary Babcock [27:15]
Yeah, absolutely. You’re 100% right. And that’s something that we definitely need to get done ASAP.
David Ralph [27:20]
Why? So let’s look at it again. Okay. I want to talk about how you balance your life now with your family. Did your family come after you prison? Did they hang around while he was in prison?
Zachary Babcock [27:33]
Yeah, I so I did. I did four years flat when I was 17 or 19 to 23 get out for about two years and then I went back for eight months, didn’t know how long I was going back at the time. But when I went back, for DWI for being an idiot again. I went back 20 days for my twin sons were born. And that was the moment that was like the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back. For me. That was like I’m done. You know, I woke up from from a blackout from being obliterated drunk the night before, and realised I was going back to prison I was going to miss on the birth. And that was, that was the one of the main things that I want a grown up was to be the father that I didn’t have growing up. And so missing out on that was so painful. I mean, it hurt I can explain, you know how, how I really felt inside. But it was it was the best thing that could ever happen to me except pain was what got me to change my ways. And I made that decision right there in that jail cell before I even went to prison. I was gonna do whatever it takes to get back home to be a responsible father and happy successful didn’t know what none of that looked like at the time, but I knew the reasons why I had to do it. And ever since then been moving in a completely different direction.
David Ralph [28:43]
But how do you keep that going? We all had those moments when we go right. Okay, I’m going to start working out and you might do it for three days on the trot and then you think, well, what made you keep on doing that keep on changing your life, not getting sucked back in. Sort of old routines especially as we said, When times became difficult for you
Zachary Babcock [29:05]
yeah it’s so the key there’s a quite a few things to do but the the main piece so like for an underdog like you thrive off of people laughing at you or not taking you seriously like that’s extra motivation right? But motivation is crap it comes and goes just like you’re telling me I’m going to work out today and then he get on the treadmill like a bit. Um, so the key to that, to have that drive on the days that you’re not motivated because there’s going to be days and times and maybe even weeks and months where you’re not motivated. But to keep going is to have those strong reasons why you’re doing it in the first place. For me it started off to be back in my in my kids life and never leave again and be the role model that they need to grow up and to be, you know, responsible humans. And now that’s grown into so much more obviously we talked about the the recidivism rate nationwide in the United States and 9% or lower. That’s a huge part of my why and I had these reasons Reasons why I’m doing it that drives me and gets me out of bed and gets me fired up on the times that I’m not. So that’s the key right there. But to really, to make it so painful if you don’t do it, like, like I like to, I visualise awesome and amazing positive things but I like to visualise negative stuff I like to visualise me on my deathbed at the end of my days, and thinking about regrets thinking about If man if I didn’t give it my all, you know, how would I feel like if I you know, I had these dreams and if I didn’t do everything that like I could live with myself if I didn’t achieve my goals, as long as I know that I did everything in my power to do it. And that’s what drives me because like if that feeling of, of waking up on that deathbed knowing that I could have gave it more but I didn’t. That’s what that’s what kind of spurs that that drive to keep moving forward. And last but not least, you know, when you No, I had so much motivation coming out because everybody was like, Oh, this is matter of time before he goes back to prison, he’s never going to mount anything. And now I’ve done everything that they said I couldn’t do I’ve already done it. And so like most people get to that point they rest on their laurels and they kind of kick back but for me I raised this the bar the standard higher for myself because now I’m just in competition with myself and I and and I, I it’s weird, but I kind of like get inside my head and like kind of like talk crap to myself like you’re not you’re not going nowhere. You’re not even close to scratching the surface of your potential. You need to do more and you can’t do it are like I like I don’t know, it’s weird, but it’s kind of Kim I said, again in my head and kind of go to work myself to push myself further.
David Ralph [31:46]
Now one of the things we do and we do it at the end of the show is connect you with your younger self. And through every episode that we’ve done on Join Up Dots. We know that the person who starts kicking booty and starts becoming such Successful more often than not, is successful because they really tap into the younger self that the person that they first were as a child before they get tarnished, and before they get kicked around, and they find that essence that they’ve always had, and in many ways becomes their superpower. Is that similar to you? Do you look at the young Zach and thing? Yeah, actually, I made some mistakes, but I’m now closer to the small person.
Zachary Babcock [32:26]
Oh, yeah, absolutely. So so I’m a child at heart all day long.
David Ralph [32:32]
Where does it take your business when you connect with your, your inner self, your true spirit.
Zachary Babcock [32:40]
See, I’m a lot like you, David. I like to just create, I love creating, I like create, I like like podcasts, you know, I love YouTube, whatever it is, you know, creating in teaching what I’ve learned, you know, because that’s a better way to learn it and internalise them more. And so when I tap into that, because that’s how I’ve always been been performing. That’s where I’m in my sweet spot. And that’s where you know things really powerful things happen for me.
David Ralph [33:09]
The thing I like about you, sir, and I’ll be totally honest with this is the fact that you know, in your heart, but you’re not the finished article, you know that every single day there’s a challenge. There’s a challenge to take you further from your past and into the future that you now know you deserve. It’s not like I see so many people, they feel like especially in corporate land, that if I keep your head down, that’s good enough. But with you, you’re putting your head up because the world deserves you to pick your head up. Did you see what I’m saying?
Zachary Babcock [33:44]
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
David Ralph [33:48]
Now, does that scare you as well, because certainly when you’re growing a personal brand, that ability to put your head up and actually say to the world, I’m doing this knowing dance Well that your past is going to try to anchor you, you’re going to come in contact with people, and they’re going to say, you know, who are you to do this? Oh, it’s not going to go anywhere because your past routes you, does that scare you or does that empower
Zachary Babcock [34:14]
you? and empowers me. I know for a lot of people, it kind of throws them off and they kind of get discouraged. But for me, it actually gets me going to get like I thrive in those situations. And I I don’t know where that comes. I don’t know if it’s just from so I got to interview Robert Green. Are you familiar with Robert Green with his books on psychology like the 48 Laws of Power, the laws of human nature and I
David Ralph [34:42]
got one of these books that the name rings a bell somewhere but I’m looking on my bookshelf, you tell us about it.
Zachary Babcock [34:49]
Okay, absolutely. So he’s got six books. Five of them are New York Times bestsellers, the six one will be they just came out not too long ago. I’ve read his books and like you can’t even put it down because his understanding of human nature is like mind boggling. I tell everybody all the time if I could be personally mentored by anybody in the world it would be that man without a doubt. And it’s just an incredible his books are masterpieces. It’s really helped me understand myself and in humans just on a deeper level. And so we went during the interview though. We were talking about this and we were talking about we were talking about when you’re much like for instance, when your mother at a young age, like some kids are spoiled, like materialistic Lee, but but others are also in some are spoiled affectionately, when you’re spoiled. When a boy is spoiled affectionately by the Mother What I mean by constantly saying, Oh, you could do anything you put your mind to, you’re going to do great things. You’re You’re amazing. You’re You know, when your mother constantly doing that to you. It breeds because from from zero to seven, you’re like a sponge. And those are the most your most impressionable, and it plays a huge factor in your life, you can acquire certain things that happened to you that are bad, you know, as time goes on. It doesn’t mean that you’re set that way. But for me, my mother constantly did this, like spoiled me with affection. And that confidence that I got from that is carried on into my life. And I never knew that that was the route to that. But we talked about that on the on the interview, and I was like, Wow, so maybe it could be that. I don’t know. But you know, some people, when other people are pushing them down, saying bad things about them, they let that break them. But you got to be able to take that and get it let you get it. get fired up about it. That’s if people are doing it in the first place is because they don’t want you to do it and you’re probably doing something right and they’re afraid that you’re actually going to do it. And so you need to keep on building on that and let that let that come through. empower you and push you further. So it’s like extra gas on the fire fire, you know, you got your fire already, you know, people are going to try and put it out by saying these things they’re trying to stop it from me, that’s just fuel for you to keep on going harder.
David Ralph [37:11]
And the interesting thing is, and I’ve referenced this many times on Join Up Dots, as I normally do is it hits a tipping point where those naysayers suddenly become your supporters. And I’ve seen it for myself, where for the first couple of years, people kind of said, Oh, I’m not sure what you’re doing. I don’t know why you’re doing this. Why don’t you get a job? Why don’t you do over? And now it’s, oh, yeah, I always knew I always knew you’d be doing this kind of thing. I always knew that. And it’s a funny old thing where it’s, as I called it, the success vacuum, you kick away the dead words that are hanging around you, and it leaves the space and the space for a while is lonely space and you think to yourself, you know, I haven’t got anyone connected with me. I’ve got no one to support me, but actually is giving the chance for the new generation to come into your life. Do you find that Zach?
Zachary Babcock [38:03]
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, dude, when one of the first thing I didn’t know anything about it when I got when I made that decision when I was in prison in going and missing out my kids birth, when I made that decision turn a life around. I didn’t know how I was gonna do all that. But I knew one thing I needed to do was to change my people, places and things that was top of mind that I knew how to do right away. And so it wasn’t hard for me to do that. But yes, there was that that period where you’re, you feel like you’re just in it by yourself. But like you said, it opens up that space for the right people to come in your life.
David Ralph [38:36]
When you was in prison, and you were sitting there every single day. What were the conversations about, you know, I like very positive because I would imagine, I’d be sitting there going, when I get out of here. I’m going to do this. I’m going to do that and I just be focused on that all the time on the conversations like that, or is it all about I don’t deserve to be in here.
Zachary Babcock [39:00]
Yeah. So when you first go in, yeah, you’re that’s what you’re thinking about all when I get out, I’m gonna do this and you know, but after you’ve been in there for a while you learn to not think so much about the outside world and things are going on. So just makes your time go by so slowly stay present in the moment of what you’re doing in your day to day there. And that that makes things go through bit, you know, it’s always in the back of your mind of, you know, like, that’s all I visualised was the day I got out when I was going to do the whole time I was in there yet next time go by slower bit. Yeah, the conversations in there. For the most part, it’s, for the most part, it’s a negative environment. You know, there’s people like you’ve mentioned, oh, I shouldn’t be here, people that aren’t taking personal responsibility for their own actions for being there. That’s most there’s some people that do but most of them, the overwhelming majority of them are not, and and then the conversations are always How petty the guards are how crappy The food is, or, you know, just whatever it might be about the situation always complaining about something.
David Ralph [40:11]
Let’s move on to a positive state of affairs. And we’re going to hear these words because they are hugely motivational. And they became the whole theme of Join Up Dots, his Steve Jobs, of course,
Steve Jobs [40:21]
it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leaves you off the well worn path,
Unknown Speaker [40:53]
and that will make all the difference. What do you think, sir? Did I
Zachary Babcock [40:59]
see here Absolutely, like, do when I was sitting there and I didn’t know how I was going to be happy and successful to be responsible for I didn’t know how I just knew the reasons why. But looking back, I can connect those dots on how I made it happen. Absolutely.
David Ralph [41:12]
And do you look back and have a sort of big.in your life when you think I suppose it’d be too obvious to say prison would be the one. But is there a moment or a conversation? Where you think to yourself? Yeah, this was when it turned for me this is when I finally believed that my future was there to be created.
Zachary Babcock [41:32]
Yeah, there’s been multiple moments like that where it just grows more and more but like that moment, though, when I know we’ve already discussed it, but when I when I woke up and realised I was not going to be there for my for my kids birth. That was the moment I was like, I’m done. I this is it. This is where I’m moving forward. I don’t care what it takes. We’re going to make it happen.
David Ralph [41:50]
I found totally outside. I think that is a course a big dot. But I always think that the the major.is satellite That moment where your initial motivation to change where you think you can put the hustle in and you can do the work and you can outperform everyone turns into I’ve got to get strategic. I’ve got to learn I’ve got to upscale there’s too much about this work, but I want to get into the may not understand the nuts and bolts and certainly for me, it was when I threw up the ego and said to myself, I actually don’t know as much. I need to know a lot more back is when I think that it changes for most people.
Zachary Babcock [42:35]
Yeah, you know, in glad you gave that example. So I have I have something very kind of similar of that experience where when, when I launched my podcast, it became a top rated podcast third day and then we started interviewing celebrities, same week, and it was you know, it was crazy to me at the time. I was like, wow, you know, before this, nobody wanted to collaborate with me and then I launched this podcast and this is just like Put me in another stratosphere. And so opportunity started flowing. But I still wasn’t making any money David I was I was, I then put my finger on the specific problem that I saw for a specific type of person, I’m still trying to figure this stuff out, which I still still I will always be trying to figure it out. So I’m always open to learning and growing, but um, it just wasn’t, you know, stolen stuff on the wall, nothing was sticking. And it wasn’t until we had a guy reach out and he had this programme, where he had 1000 successful graduates and did over 20 million in revenue. So it was a successful programme and it was results there. And the programme was based on lead gen customer acquisition and scaling a business. However, I was broke at the time and I had no business teaching none of this stuff and figure none of this stuff out for myself. But we started this programme and we repurpose what he had and I was like the face of it with with the brand with underdog empowerment. We’re getting students coming through. But I felt like a parasite, I felt like a magnet, I felt like I could sit on a penny and swing my feet from it because I’m sitting here trying to achieve what we’re teaching by teaching it. And it was just backwards. And so I pulled the plug on it, and I made a post on my Facebook and I called myself out on it and it was tough man, I was scared to do it. You know, I didn’t want to, I was like, Man, you know, I’m putting myself out there, you know, here, here it goes or whatnot. And I, I said, you know, hey, I was doing this. But you know, I don’t think it’s right because I haven’t done this myself. Even though this programme has gotten results. I still haven’t achieved it myself. So it just doesn’t align with my integrity. And so I’m pulling the plug on this. I don’t know what I’m going to do. But I’m going back to the drawing board and figure this stuff out. It was tough, but it ended up being one of the best decisions I made because I had so many people reach out to me private messaged me saying man, this is a breath of fresh air man. You got so many people on the internet now that are posting photos in front of Running Lamborghinis acting like the ball, and that they can make you a millionaire overnight. And what you did was just a breath of fresh air and I got nothing but respect for you for that, and I appreciate them. And, and by doing that, that was a moment where I was like, I need to really get serious about what it is that I’m going to provide. It’s got to be something that I’ve been that I’ve done myself that I’m going to bring to the marketplace, and I really need to develop these skills before I go out there. And that’s what led me to the podcast and so was that moment I would definitely say it was like a turning point.
David Ralph [45:31]
Right storey great storey, and yeah, I hate those. Those infinity pool private jet Lamborghini pictures that you see all the time is, I just don’t buy into them. But I suppose people do. Well, this is the part of the show that we’re going to have to say goodbye to Zach because this is the part where we’re going to send him on a journey to have a one on one with his younger self. And if he could go back in time and speak to the young Zach, what agent What advice would he give him? Well, we’re gonna find out because I’m gonna play the music. Winning Phaedra This is the Sermon on the mic.
Zachary Babcock [46:26]
Alright, so if I’m going back, I’m going to talk to myself, right? Coming out of prison and getting into entrepreneurship. And what I would tell myself, I would say this, I’d say, look, you can’t skip steps that that just can’t You can’t skip milestones. You can’t skip the steps you got to go through and do the hard stuff. You gotta you gotta develop the skill. So here’s what it looks like when you’re entering any industry. In business no matter what it is. Your first goal is not to get the attention are to not to prove yourself. Your first goal is to observe your surroundings, observe the environment, what are the unspoken rules? What are the social dynamics? What are the skills that you need to develop in order to be a player in this industry, then the next thing that we’re going to move into is we’re going to move into actually, the second phase of actually developing the skills and become you in this part is the longest part, it’s usually 10,000 hours or more of developing skills. That’s what a real expert is they put in 10,000 hours and more to where they can perform the skills without even have to think about them. So now you’re becoming a practitioner of your own ideas, and you’re starting to work with others and you’re, you’re building on the skill sets. And then finally, you move into the third stage of mastery, you become a true master where you put in over the 10,000 hours of developing these skills that are going to be valuable to the marketplace and to anybody you come in contact with, to where you no longer have to think about these skills consciously to form them, you could perform them subconsciously, because you’ve internalises skill so much that they become a part of you. Just like when you learn how to walk, you didn’t know how to walk when you first started. And you didn’t give up right away either. And you tried over and over and film hundreds, if not thousands of times, but eventually did it so much where you’ve internalised that skill. So you no longer need to think consciously on how to walk. You can walk and chew bubblegum at the same time. And that’s what it’s going to take to be successful in business and to be to be able to provide real value in the marketplace.
David Ralph [48:32]
powerful stuff, powerful stuff. Indeed, Zach, what is the number one best way that our audience can connect with you?
Zachary Babcock [48:41]
Man, the podcast for sure. And I know this, I haven’t asked you yet but I’d love to have you on the podcast as well. It’s a underdog empowerment. It’s literally on pretty much any podcast platform that you like to listen to podcasts to but to make it really easy for you guys. You can go to underdog empowerment, calm and right there on the front. Hey, I got a little button that you could subscribe to iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, whichever one that you love. Hope to see you over there. And I hope to have you on the show as well, David,
David Ralph [49:08]
you have me now I will definitely make time for you. So absolute inspiration. Well, we’ll have all the links on the show notes to make it as easy as possible. And Zach, really, thank you so much for spending time with us today at joining up those dots. And please come back again, when you got more dots to join up because I do believe that by joining those dots and connecting our past is always the best way to build our futures. Zachary, thank you so much.
Zachary Babcock [49:33]
Thanks, David. It was a blast.
David Ralph [49:37]
Zachary Babcock now I think that was a powerful episode. It certainly felt powerful to me. So yeah. Are you in a situation where you think that your life is going the wrong way? Zachary was are you in a situation when you think that you haven’t got the support around us? Zachary was now What did he do? Let’s think about it what he did, he became clear on who he was. And that is what Violent a powerful part parts, you know, why don’t you become clear on what you do? And what you do better than anybody else. I love you issues take care of themselves. I see so many people send me stuff and say Can I have your feedback on this? Can I have your feedback on that, and the majority of feedback that I give them is by you’re not speaking to anyone particular. Yeah, only speaking generally. And once you do that, you just go into the mix, become clear on who you are become clear on who you want to serve. And that is the starting point to your business. Until next time, I will see you again anybody who wants to join in on our next coaching calls, just come over to Join Up Dots Connect with us, and I will speak to you personally to make sure that you’re a fit. And until that time, I will hear you again or you will hear me again on another podcast episode. See you again and Look after yourselves. Bye bye.
David doesn’t want you to become a faded version of the brilliant self you are wants to become so he’s put together an amazing guide for you called the ageing pieces of advice that every successful entrepreneur practices, including the two that changed his life, head over to Join Up dots.com to download this amazing guide for free and we’ll see you tomorrow on Join Up Dots.